What if the U.S. 🇺🇸 used Germany’s 🇩🇪 Educational System?

[@usa.mom.in.germany]

As always, sources for all my claims can be found in the public spreadsheet clickable through my main page 💚

[@Benjamin-xv9le]

Kindergardens have standardized curricula at the state level. Source: bin Erzieher ;)

[@usa.mom.in.germany]

That’s fair. Frameworks like the Bavarian Education and Care Plan (BayBEP) are state-level guidelines, but they are not standardized curricula in the strict sense - in the sense of dictating exact lessons or teaching methods. Instead, they provide a structure within which kindergartens operate, allowing flexibility and diversity in early childhood education. There is no standardized testing of the children involved, but facilities monitor students to track development. But I can see your point!

[@Benjamin-xv9le]

@@usa.mom.in.germany We can agree on "depends on how strict you want your Begriff of curriculum to be". Schools also have no standardized tests except for final exams (which is a relatively new thing. Late 00s, iirc. Didn't exist when I finished school in 05).

[@benyomovod6904]

Affordable healthcare and good education ruins so many business models in the US, no way!

[@Gramsciwastoo]

😂

[@Raikage93]

This would be SOCIALISM!

[@karstenbursak8083]

"Oh, I love the uneducated." That was the only time orange man actually told the truth

[@shirleyskid]

@@karstenbursak8083I believe his exact words were “poorly educated”. 🤭

[@shirleyskid]

@@Raikage93you mean like K-12, libraries, LE, fire departments, etc? 🤷‍♀️ (these are socialist programs)

[@AmberBlase]

In Portland, Oregon preschool is now optional, available in the public school system and paid for by the state!

[@kuscheldrache]

Besides Hauptschule,Realschule and Gymnasium there are also comprehensive schools which offer all three tracks and offer a bit more time to determine the kids path.

[@JacksonHoulihan]

This would never work in the US because it makes too much sense.

[@veramae4098]

In 1983 "A Nation at Risk" was published. It was mostly ignored. It's on the 'Net if you're interested. Of course, now we're even worse off.

[@ATLfletch]

Wow!... Enlightening to say the least. And thank you so much for your continuous stream of clear, well-organized & researched videos. Happy Holidays!!!

[@johnwhitson8015]

The very fact that we desperately need it and it would probably work means that it will never happen. The rich have been kicking down the ladder to the middle class for decades and the project is almost complete.

[@jtsimmons3133]

Most young people I meet these days can't conjugate a verb and don't know who Abraham Lincoln was. We definitely need a change.

[@mariotomazzoni6523]

Don't worry, the member of the German Federal Parlament Emilia Fester didn't know the name of the first chancellor of Germany (Otto von Bismarck) despite having the highest educational graduate that grant here the right to study at an university.

[@Summalogicae]

You are aware that English has been losing its inflections for centuries and at best English is a weakly inflected language? Not sure what you’re implying but possibly that people cannot write well because they cannot conjugate, say “hang”. Not much empirical evidence to support such a view.

[@stevemcgowen]

As far as university, it is huge business in US America, like healthcare. Never happen. Where I live university is no cost. Higher education even gets stipends. At age 15 students graduate high school can go to a vocational school if they want, as well, at no cost.

[@AIbh-gd9zt]

@@stevemcgowen you know what else is stipend in Germany? Allowing grown ass people, well into their late twenties to become professional students. Almost free education, collecting money from the government, taking up spots from other students, and being unproductive members of society. It got so bad several years ago that the universities had to implement fees just to discourage this kind of abuse.

[@Anyk572]

As a 🇨🇦 I very much appreciate your videos.

[@mariont3806]

Being German and having experienced both systems, I would have to say, the German system has many flaws. The three track system splitting kids at the age of about 10 is one of its greatest faults, in my opinion. The US system, with curriculums decided on by local school boards, often with no educational background and arbitrary laws guiding what can and is taught is worse off, though. Neither is perfect, but at least children are given a broad general education in Germany, not the nitpicking some American states do, just because they don't like history 😅

[@francodenobili7654]

@@mariont3806 one finds flaws anywhere - when you dig. But having free access all the way to Higher Education like University for very little money is the only way. Many good things in life must be taught by every parent - just having been to University MEANS NOTHING. I met many people in my 18 years in the US that spent a fortune on schooling - yet every rusty nail Beats their IQ 😂

[@manub.3847]

Some federal states have changed the system somewhat and created regional or community schools. There is then a somewhat more open transition from Hauptschule to Realschule or even to Abitur

[@mariont3806]

Free University is one of the biggest pros of the German system. And although it has become more flexible nowadays (I know, my husband is a teacher), the three tiered system still rubs me the wrong way. It was originally designed with class in mind (Gymnasium for upper class and academics, Realschule for mid level jobs and maybe small businesses, and Hauptschule/Mittelschule for the lower classes). And, although the system has become more geared towards each student's abilities, it still is heavily influenced by social backgrounds.

[@francodenobili7654]

@mariont3806 yes, you are correct - that is even more to work on and improve on the system - perfect does not exist in many Countries. In my opinion we must change the people that have a saying in how it's done. If you have a different approach in every Bundesland is not a good thing. We need to get politicians out of the decision making - get an expert group on a national Level - go for their recomendations - and IMPLEMENT laws that allow a quick change if things do turn out not as predicted. We take too long - in many things. And yet, I am still confident and not panicked - like too many.

[@wora1111]

​@mariont3806 True, education is influenced by the social background, but maybe in unexpected ways. I grew up in a small village, we were about 40 students in my class. In 4th grade the decision had to be made, how to continue with each child. 4 out of the 40 tried for Gymnasium, the parents of the other kids opted for them to do as their parents had done: Finish school as fast as possible and start earning money. I have been meeting many of the group of 40 fifty years later and it is hard to tell who had or has the better life. Would you rather be rich or play with your grandchildren in the garden where you grew up?

[@peterzapp2091]

Some say the absence of tuition fees encourages the waste of taxpayers' money on unprofitable subjects or on students who lack the discipline to finish their degree. On the other hand German employers can hire graduates without student loans for less. No tuition fees for foreign students is a give and take. Those who get a job in Germany are a gain. Those who go back often are informal ambassadors for the German industry. Doctors' and nurses' student loans inflate the cost of U.S. healthcare. It gets worse when lawyers with grinding student loans and performance-based fees negotiate compensations for malpractice that inflate the cost of insurance for healthcare providers.

[@Yasmine-n3h]

I love that the kindergarten model focuses on social and emotional health for little children and student led academics. This was what ECE education was all about when it started by people like Maria Montessori. The choice to allow children to remain at home is also a good one, not all children thrive at school. I prefer the " middle model " offered in places like Australia and NewZealand for the rest of their schooling. Children , with the guidance of parents and teachers, decide their academic path in public state schools and the school tends to choose it in private schools. Bridging courses OR exams are offered for those over 21 to tech schools or universities. Home schooling is allowed but the parents have to follow ( and prove they are following )a set curriculam . There is flexibility but not as much as the USA or as little as there is in Germany. Ideology in home schooling isnt set by the state and the state properganda as it is in Germany but educational success is monitored by the state in NZ/Australia because the school is there to educate more than propergandise ( although it can and does but not as much as German or US schools ). Both private ( religious and secular ) and public schools follow a ( mostly ) same Australian or NZ educational model until year 10 and after that some private schools are allowed to follow other certified curriculums from around the world but most stick to the Australian curriculum. Its not the best system but it isnt as restrictive as the German model which seems incredibly restrictive and even extremely classist ( the three streams in high school ) in Germany. NZ has some fantastic educational models for Maori people and their families as well. I feel like the German model is restrictive and classist after age 6.

[@Summalogicae]

“Ideological isolation” essential describes virtually the entire American culture, but certainly its politics.

[@Bob-d5j]

I’ve served on the Scholarship Committee for several years at our church. I can identify the home schooled kids within 30 seconds of the start of the interview. They severely lack social skills and in some cases have none. They can’t make eye contact when answering questions and are excessively fidgety.

[@bhg123ful]

As a community college professor, who deals with a large number of students without the basic skills to succeed in college courses, I’m all for adopting Germanys vocational vs university track system. For too long, the US educational system has been holding up a university education as the only path to success and have looked down upon the trades. Some people are just cut out for practical trade skills and some are cut out for a more academic path path. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. It would work out better and we’d have more young people succeeding in the right paths.

[@El4-p1c]

True. Now, we have talk about trade schools. But, it is mostly lip service. You can attend one, but good luck with them placing you. These so called trade schools are only in it for the money.

[@Ephelia1]

I think no home schooling is a sensible idea. It’s essential that children are exposed to lots of different ideas during their schooling. Although I guess in the US your child is less likely to get shot at if they don’t go to school 😢

[@bwillan]

They are also less likely to get indoctrinated into what the government wants you to think and feel.

[@gingersummer4005]

@@bwillanhowever more susceptible to what the parents what the kids to think and feel.

[@beth8775]

School shootings are one of the more significant reasons I homeschool. My son also has ADHD, so a traditional class environment isn't ideal. Then there is the fact that our local schools are not performing well.

[@Ephelia1]

@ that’s sad 😢. My grandson has ADHD and his village school is really supportive of him and his needs. And he’s begun to develop so well while there.

[@iatsd]

@@bwillan So you're against the States setting the curriculum in the US, just as happens in Germany? You're free to move to a State with a curriculum you agree with. Maybe Texas would suit you? Their currciulumis right wing paranoid delusional, just like you.

[@peter_meyer]

Aly formulates the new American dream

[@Mel-p9o]

Most Americans couldn’t get through this video…..🧐

[@haramanggapuja]

Most gringos couldn’t tell you where Germany is.

[@VulcanLogic]

No home schooling and no religious academies would do wonders for the US. Well, Catholic school makes more atheists but I wouldn't put anyone else through that if it can be avoided.

[@mariotomazzoni6523]

Fun fact: Middle class Germans with enough money send their children to anthroposophic, catholic or protestant schools. Most of the cost are covered by the state, and the remaining school fee prevents poor people to send their childern to those schools.That keeps the troublemakers out, and troublemakers from rich families get kicked out because private schools don't have to keep them.

[@varunkapoor-w9h]

You explained it in simple words

[@autinerd]

Although a good video, it is missing a few points: Some states like Hamburg ditched the 3-track system. (I went to such a school) There the students are from grade 4 to 10 or 12 together, and everyone is able to get as far as they can, without needing to change tracks. My opinion is of course, that the three-track system should be ditched altogether, as it often is not accurate to say based on the grades and behaviour of a 10-year old person how they will do later in life. Then Realschule (the second track) leads to vocational training as well, but afterwards you can have a so called Fachabitur to go to a unitersity of applied science.

[@DrustZapat]

Loved this video, and I would be interested in seeing more long form content.

[@Sat-Man-Alpha]

Ich komme aus einer Arbeiterfamilie und bin vom Maschinenbau über die Sozialpädagogik zur Politikwissenschaft und zum Journalismus gekommen und nicht verarmt...🤣🇩🇪 I come from a working-class family and have come from mechanical engineering to social pedagogy to political science and journalism and have not become impoveris... 🤣🇩🇪

[@ViviNorthbell]

playing it back at half the speed. Better chance to get it all. lol

[@wilczajagoda734]

Poland has system similar, and in some places worse, but sticking to what was present in video, I think it's better. It's more centralized, but gives more freedom to parents and students. I will omitt how art schools work, because they are so different they even are under control of different part of the government. First, there is national curriculum for every 2-4 grades (it was 3 back in the day, but they changed it, and it's generally not a good change). Every school has to teach that, but also every school has their own curriculum, that is decided for every grade, and can be wider than that basic curriculum. Kindergarten is mandatory only in the last year, it's sometimes called grade zero, and it ends with assessment of if child is ready for school. If they aren't, there is a possibility to leave them for another year. Elementary school is 8 years. There used to be 6 plus 3 years middle school, but well, now it's 8. First 3 years kids have English (it can be a different language, but it usually isn't), religion (if parents sign them up) and the rest is with the same teacher, physical education and general education, that has things like reading, writing (in cursive), basic math, some science, some history, some music... Just general stuff. It's all in one subject. And there is no grades at the end of the year, teacher just writes an opinion. The next five years is divided into subjects, the same in the whole country, with the same amount of hours weekly in every school (it can be adjusted slightly, like an hour or two a week, if local government agrees). The subjects are not the same every year, for example there is science for like three years, and then it is biology, chemistry, geography and physics separate, also there is second foreign language added later, art subjects disapear... Elementary school ends in an exam in 3 subjects - polish, math, and foreign language. Then stufents are 14-15yo, and there is reacrutation to middle education, and what matters is grades, exam results, in a really small portion also stuff like being from a family with three or more kids, or volonteering. Some schools have their own exams, usually when they teach something extra, so they are art or bilingual schools. School is chosen by students and their parents (both child and parent have to agree if I remember correctly), you can choose up to three schools and as many profiles as those schools are offering. There is three kinds of school, that are similar to Germany ones: Vocational school - it takes three years, have easier curriculum when it comes to academic subjects, and gives student knowledge from a certain vocation. Then students can take another two year, which will give them more knowledge, and also more advanced curriculum from those academic subjects, and that's give them right to take a matura exam. Technical (?) school - it takes 5 years and teaches a vocation, usually more technical (examples: photography, chemistry, IT) and also gives right to take a matura exam Then there is standard highschool, which teaches only academic subjects, last 4 years and gives right to matura exam. Matura exam is what you need to go to the university, this is the only thing this exam does. Universities are tuition-free (there is a couple of really small costs you have to take), and they really rarely take anything else than matura in consideration (I'm studying a weird major, so I also had an interview, but it's really rare occurrence). And you get accepted into a certain major, not just the university. Homeschooling is legal, but homeschooled kids have to take exams from every subject they would have at school, every year. There is no way to finish vocational or technical school homeschooled.

[@23billd]

An educational system that doles out positions solely based on measured ability would be doomed to fail among groups who believe that it should produce equal results for all groups.

[@tosa2522]

Is it still the case in the USA that students don't have to write out their answers to exams because they are usually multiple choice?

[@carriebryan1211]

I don't know about "still the case." I attended university in the USA 1969-73. I had to write papers for every course, including original poetry for an English course and original scientific research to qualify for my Geology degree. Some years later, I overheard a coworker boast that in her 4 years at a different US university, she did not have to write any papers at all.

[@iatsd]

US education in most states is geared towards test taking, and it's geared for that because funding is derived from test performance. The format the tests take varies over age & subject, obviously, but it *tends* towards multiple choice because that is easier to mark for mass testing and is "fairer" in the sense that all students have the chance of guessing the right answer.

[@Summalogicae]

It’s not mandatory but plenty of schools require written essays

[@andreasarnoalthofsobottka2928]

Let's be honest. The US- system already segregates locally via funding. If a multi- track- system would be added on top, all the (if I write what I mean I would get banned) kids would end up in the lowest track, which in turn would resemble a prison in Central America. For the normal kids not much would change. They leave High School either dumb or dead like they do now. And only some kids with asian background or Nachhilfe (like in Korea or Japan) would attend the track that has requirements like a Gymnasium in Bavaria.

[@Zarsla]

So Kindergarden => would be daycare? plus a mix of preschool & pre-k. Main schooling 1-12/13 would basically be Primary school/elementray school 1-4 or 1-6 Secnodary School is basically 4/6 - 10 Then Vocational track is basically 11-13 Combined track is basically 11-14 with university college (reminds me a bit of dual enrollment tbh, like when in american high school you go university) University track is basically 11-13, then you go to college for 14-16.

[@julonkrutor4649]

Hey, you forgot that you get the right to go to university when you complete your "Meisterbrief" as long as its a field of study that is close to your education. For example: A car mechanic can study engeniering ^^

[@mariotomazzoni6523]

The "Meisterbrief" allows to study every field. So a car mechanic with "Meisterbrief" can study medicine... if there are free places for new students in that semester, usually after some years on the waiting list. It just don't make sense. The fast track to the "Meisterbrief" is an apprenticeship with reduced school time due having the Abitur, work some years as craftsman while doing after work courses on evenings and weekends... It can be done in four to six years if your are realy good, thats the same time frame as for becoming an bachelor at an university. So it takes longer, costs more money and is harder than simply study that you want if you haver already the Abitur that grants you to study everything . And let's talk about the example of a car mechanic with Meisterbrief wants to study mechanical engeniering... is the waiting time for a free place reduced? No. Do they still have to do one practical semester despite having multiple years of practical experience? Oh yeah, they may have to do that to, depending on the university ("because you didn't work as scientist your experience don't counts"). The "Meisterbrief" is a certificate for the skills to fullfill a middle managment position in the industry and crafts. Those positions are well payed and respected. A Meister is educated to run a small company or department, instruct apprentice and workers, knows price and cost calculations, laws, biliancing., ect - in addition to higher professional knowledge. It makes more sense to took additional courses that prepare for the exame as Meister if you have already a bachelors degree or are a degree as state certified technician in that field if you aim for a position in middle managemt or want to run your own company in a craft.

[@pechaa]

I am a politically left-wing homeschool parent in the U.S. My spouse and I are highly educated, and we socialize multiple times a week with other homeschoolers and public school students. Our public schools are too dangerous in the U.S. Too many teachers, administrators, and parents in my area believe the job of a school is to stress-test and sort students into the strong and the weak -- academically, emotionally, and physically. I firmly disagree. I spent a summer in Germany as an exchange student in my teens and loved it. I went to school with my host sister a few times in June and early July. It was a very different experience. I quite liked it. My vague impression was that it was more respectful toward students. The structure and rules of the school felt much more collegial than the authoritarian campuses in the U.S. I would like to know more about how Germany responds to students with learning disabilities and physical disabilities. One of my children has orthographic dyslexia and dyscalculia. How would that be accommodated? Are physical disabilities also accommodated within in the general student population, or are students with disabilities siphoned off and channeled into segregated learning communities?

[@El4-p1c]

And let us not forget, many schools now have gun training programs.

[@MCoaler]

You forgot religion as basic subject, at least going by the amount of weekly hours in some grades in Bavaria. It is next to insane that they (plan to) cut PE and art but keep 3 hours per week of religion in the 3rd grade.

[@dux_bellorum]

I just can't wait to move back to Germany.

[@DB-jk8vs]

Not sure where you are or what your background is but I'd at least recommend a hiatus first as it's not like it "used to be".

[@arnodobler1096]

@@DB-jk8vs AfD?

[@HuberHans]

​@@arnodobler1096In my opinion - yes

[@arnodobler1096]

@@HuberHans ziemlich sicher. Aber DB? Deutsche Bahn, müsste RB Reichsbahn sein, oder?

[@jodikoberinski1639]

Not unlike Canada in 70s and 80s but we had only 1 kindergarten year. Grades 1-3 were flex and by grade 7 we begin streaming by interests and 3 tracks in grade 9. University bound stayed for grade 13.

[@loc4725]

*Public* Universities are free. Private Universities are from around €15,000 to around €22,000 per semester. Also interesting that English is taught. I suspect this is the case in most if not all of Western Europe and as a Brit out of all the nationalities I've encountered the Dutch (Nederland) seem to be the best. In my experience their English speaking skills range from very good to outstanding.

[@Garagantua]

English isn't taught in german elemantary schools. She said it would look like that if implemented in the US. (Sure, education is a state thing, so I assume in some elementary schools or kindergardens, the kids will learn a bit of english - but german will still be the focus. Foreign languages usually start some time after grade 4.)

[@BonniesFrauchen]

⁠in Lower Saxony English starts ib 3rd grade

[@HuberHans]

​@@BonniesFrauchenIn Bavaria, too ...

[@mariotomazzoni6523]

Monty Pythons Flying Circus did more for the English speaking skills of the Boomers and Gen X in Germany than the school system. It was aired in the local TV channels in the 70s/80s without dubbing and only with subtitels. Also most of that generations consumed english popular music and read the english lyrics in teen magazines like the BRAVO (German music outside of punk was considerd cheesy "Schlager" to borderline nationalistic stuff like "volkstümliche Musik" or Heino, but that changed in the late 80s with singer/songwriters that used dialect and more controverse themes than simple love songs). Today many Germans don't talk or even read english on a regular base after leaving school because everything is dubbed, translated or remade for the German audience. And in must cases the dubbing and translation is horrible, unfunny and twisted, but most consumers don't know the original. There are some exception with Germans that consume media off the mainstream like movies in original language (mainly English or with subtitles) or have special interests that are more common in English speaking countries like tabletop wargaming, video games, anime, comic books,... but those get also more and more their own german translation/versions.

[@HuberHans]

@@mariotomazzoni6523 I don't know much about the gaming community and the language(s) used there, but agree with the rest of your statement. In my opinion, English in primary school (at least in Bavaria and depending on the teacher, as it is not graded) is a waste of time and only helps to recognize the used language. As a tutor, I always recommend to watch a beloved movie (produced in a native English speaking country e.g. Harry Potter - UK , any Disney movie - USA, without subtitles) in English. The storyline is known, so the brain can make the connections more easily ... Edit: Monty Python's Flying Circus isn't my thing, but give me "The live of Brian" or "Black Adder" anytime 😁.

[@mrc1111-x5y]

How do they handle students with special needs, such as autism?

[@DB-jk8vs]

(TMK)They have "Sonderschule" as supposedly they are screened in elementary for ADHD etc.

[@hape3862]

Although we have special schools, we follow an inclusive approach where children with special needs are taught together with their peers as much as possible to show them that they are a normal member of society and to teach children without special needs how to interact with other children who do have special needs. Of course, all teachers are trained in this inclusive approach.

[@loc4725]

​@@hape3862Same in the U.K. Special needs kids generally have additional support but otherwise and where possible are taught alongside other kids.

[@HuberHans]

​@@hape3862Either the teacher is equipped or the school has the possibility to request a special trained aid. In case of the latter, the aid has to help the kid with the curriculum during the lessons or/and help with the special needs. E.g. a child with ADHS - when the kid gets to "squirmy", the Co-teacher takes the kid out of the classroom before it's behavior starts to irritate the rest of the class, to let the special run of it's anxiety...

[@HuberHans]

​@@DB-jk8vsSpecial needs schools "Sonderschulen" should only take in those with needs that a "normal" school can't handle, like blindness, deafness and certified brain damages (yes, the last sounds awful, but I don't know how to describe it in a better way 😢). In these schools there is always a nurse/doctor on stand by for obvious medical reasons. Deaf and blind children go to schools, where next to the same curriculum as their peers, they learn things specific to their needs, e.g. the blind learn braille and the deaf learn SL and lip reading. Btw. I would love to have SL integrated in the curriculum for all schools ... As you saw, I said 'should'. Regrettably, there are enough cases, where a child could be integrated with "normal" peers, but where e.g. the old school building isn't equipped accordingly - like a lift for wheelchairs.

[@katiec8844]

I see the negatives, for sure, but I also think it could be helpful as students who are behind per-say could get some extra skills and fill the gaps in their education, but still have the option to put in work and move up accordingly with extra coursework and time. As a teacher in the U.S., I see a widening gaps in my students’ performance. The honors kids are all pretty much at the same pace in the classroom, but my on-track students honestly could be separated into smaller groups, with some being at that medium track level mentioned in the video, and the other group being at the lowest track mentioned in the video. I’m at a pretty rigorous school as well. The way we teach in the U.S. I feel tends to only allow three tracks: honors, on-track, and special education. That’s pretty limiting because several students can’t keep up with honors, so they’re in on-track, but about half of their peers are way lower than that on-track level, so it slows down what we can do with them. Those kids that are below on track often times aren’t special needs, they’re kids that got lost in the cracks due to switching schools 5 times due to parents moving a lot for jobs, or separating and bouncing the kid back and forth/not agreeing on schooling for the child. I also have lots of kids who have immigrated, and are honors class worthy for math, so we know the academic capability is there, but the language barriers are so hard to keep them up in other classes. Idk, it’s all so complicated. I could see issues with both systems, just not sure what is better.

[@AIbh-gd9zt]

@@katiec8844 absolutely agree! I find it some of the comments frustrating that focus on US school funding. Rich vs poor neighborhood etc. I personally find that the home situation plays a way bigger role, and that schools are taking all the blame. All the Elementary and Middle schools in our area have a decent program of identifying kids lacking or excelling in math and English and providing additional instruction. Give your ELL a year or two and they’ll be just fine. Thanks for doing what you do! God knows it’s not easy or well paid.

[@katiec8844]

@ thank you! Merry Christmas (if you celebrate)!

[@juliaclaire42]

Mit Mittlerer Reife kann man nicht an einer (Fach-)Hochschule (University of applied science) studieren. Dafür benötigt man mindestens die Fachhochschulreife. Und die Studiendauer dort beträgt regelmäßig genau wie an einer Universität sechs Semester für einen Bachelor und weitere vier für den Masterabschluss.

[@usa.mom.in.germany]

Indeed, the Fachhochschulreife is necessary to obtain and not automatic. That wasn’t my intention to imply but rather to highlight its alignment with this particular educational track. While the official duration is the same in semesters, in practice, degrees at Fachhochschulen often take less time to complete.

[@DB-jk8vs]

Yeah they read the propaganda not the KMK or anything.

[@bonniebrush94]

The old saying "too soon old, to late smart" applies to someone like me. I enjoy your reflections immensely but doubt Germany (or the EU in general) would welcome a senior citizen as an emigrant.

[@wora1111]

Well, we might welcome an immigrant though. There are quite a few that got stuck here or returned after their time with the military ...

[@maryjohnstone1051]

Where would a student end up who had physical limitations that slowed down their studies by limiting attendance but got very good grades in certain subjects? Sounds like they might end up on the lowest track because of their physical limitations.

[@hape3862]

No, we have an inclusive approach that takes care of children with special needs _within_ their peer group.

[@Ashorisk]

There are nomally rules for certain situations that differ depending on the limitations. But no one gets sent to the lowest track simply because. for example, my son is dyslexic and is allowed to do some of his work not in writing but verbal (english for example) and that is in the highest track mentioned. But of course they also try to challenge him a bit. there are also various rules and ways to help with physical limitations.

[@hape3862]

@@Ashorisk When I attended elementary school in a Bavarian cow village from 1973 to 1977, we had a handful of dyslexic pupils in our class. They were treated normally, but during dictation they sat in a special section where they only had to copy the text. We also had a girl with glass bones. She was often absent when another bone was broken, but the rest of the time she was a “normal” classmate for us with crutches, whom we treated especially gently without being specifically asked to do so, as far as I remember. One summer, gypsies camped in our village and their children attended our classes for a few weeks. And there was a black girl in my sister's class - in a cow village in the Bavarian Alps in the 1970s! I don't remember her being discriminated against, but of course one would have to ask her how she felt. All of us made our way through the school system without being forced against our will or above/below our capabilities but rather according to our own inclination (trade/office career/technician/academic). I myself initially went to Realschule (the intermediate tier) and then added a few years to get Abitur and studied at university.

[@maryjohnstone1051]

I see. Well that’s sounding better than what we deal with in the US public school system. My son lives in physical pain that often prevents him attending school. He gets good grades in language arts, writing and speech and debate but fails in science and math year after year. He would need many more hours in a day to study for all his courses as he spends hours a day in physical therapy and needed rest. So we spend the hours we do have on the courses he likes and he always gets soaring grades in those and flunks his other classes. And all I hear from the principal year after year is how we need to get his grades up in the courses he fails.

[@AIbh-gd9zt]

@@maryjohnstone1051 in Germany, if you get a failing grade in two core subjects, you have to repeat the whole school year. Oftentimes people who do have those problems end up going to a lower level track.

[@kcjd8659]

This makes so much sense!! But I’m truly getting concerned about the rise of the right wing right now in many countries, including in Germany. I had thought Germany was being so proactive against the rise of right wing ideology that it would not be following the disturbing trend in some other countries right now. What are your thoughts on that?

[@christians6734]

Don't be concerned. Whether a party is considered left or right depends on the individual standpoint. If the political spectrum reaches from far left to far right, I will try to position the political parties in Germany and the US along this spectrum. Beginning at the very left, you would find communists and then socialists. In Germany the party "Die Linke" would be considered socialist, but they dropped below the 5% threshold and are fading away. A new leftist party BSW was founded by ex Linke members, therefore with a lot of socialist and pro Putin DNA and was enjoying some success on state level in Eastern Germany lately. Next, but still left from the middle you find the SPD or social democrats, the current chancellor (who is on his way out) is from SPD. In the middle of the spectrum, you will find the Liberals, or FDP. Right of the middle, in the conservative area you find the CDU or christian democrats. IMHO the US democrats would be positioned somewhere here, between social democrats, liberals and light conservatives. Further to the right you find the CSU, sister party of CDU represented only in Bavaria, very Catholic hypocrites, conservative and too populistic for the rest of Germany. Finally on the very right spectrum you find the AfD or Alternative for Germany, of which you are concerned. Although the AfD made some inroads in state elections in eastern Germany, they are not governing anywhere because no other party would form a coalition with the AfD in order to achieve a governing majority. Germanywide the AfD currently enjoys approval rating of around 19%, which is IMHO embarrassing. Interestingly, major talking points of the AfD and the US MAGA GOP are identical, such as Isolationism, leave EU and NATO, racism and white supremacy, xenophobia and mass deportation, a fascist ideology, traditional family values only, rejection of any gender, woke, or non binary considerations. And the MAGA-GOP just won >50% !!! The good thing, in Germany, our checks and balances are well in place and have just been further reinforced. Unlike in the US our German supreme court is impartial, not corrupted and might even consider banning the AfD should the AfD continue to move outside the boundaries of our constitution. So if you are not concerned about the development in the US, there is no need to worry about the situation in Germany.

[@kcjd8659]

@ thanks so much for the explanation! Yes those are the things I’m concerned about. Being in the US, I’m horrified of what’s going on here, and it has made it feel even worse, even more concerning, with the right-wing trend that seems to be hitting around the world. Thank you for taking the time to share those details.

[@AH-xf3by]

​​@@christians6734 Am I blind or did you forgot the Greens?

[@christians6734]

​@@AH-xf3by, no you are not blind, but absolutely correct. The Greens have a very left wing and a more conservative wing called the "realos". The blend of both however is definitely left, strong dirigistic, i.e. they claim to know what is best for the people, however most of their top politicians lack any academic education and thus appear very incompetent Overall the Greens share the socialist view that the state should transform the people into better humans by micromanaging everybody's daily life which is perceived very intrusive. The clear opposite of liberal. In their wildest dreams the greens are even convinced, the world will follow the German way.

[@mommasurwillo6262]

All my children would be able to go to school. My 4 year old can read and do basic math, but because of an October birthday and American laws, he can't start kindergarten until 2026. School will bore and not benefit my child by then.

[@pbj0815]

Yes!!! It’s so stupid how they delay their learning journey based on their birth date. My daughter was born ONE day after the cut off and we had to wait one more year to enroll her.

[@AIbh-gd9zt]

@@mommasurwillo6262 why don’t you send him to pre-k? A four year old doesn’t need to know how to read and do math. He needs to learn to socialize with his peers, and play.

[@ef9033]

It's weird to watch your Video. I don't Like our schoolsystem in Germany, It's creates alot of social Segregation, but you let it Sound Like It would be Something good. It's Strange.

[@LarthV]

The segregation is a problem, but it is not so much an issue of the system‘s design than its implementation.

[@asta7303]

We had a similar schoolsystem in Sweden many years ago but it was changed due to the social segregation and there is now no dividing in to three different lanes.

[@ef9033]

@LarthV i would disagree on that, WE could make the Separation later. Like other countries, where we don't See that effects way less. We do This early Separation since decades. So i would say , that fact that education success is highly dependent on the success of the parents is caused by that system. At least to some degree. But It's typically for Germany, our education system was Always very conservative and at least a half a century behind the modern ways to educate our childs. Thanks to your Most conservative politician...

[@ef9033]

@@asta7303 yes a lot of countries do that... Sometimes i Wish our politicans would Just be smart enough to Copy Things that Work, WE Just have to watch our neighboring countries and See what works. But there head is deeply buried in conservative think. With the some old Attitude. "I went to the system and turned Out fine .... So it has to be a good system by Default"

[@LarthV]

@ef9033 I am not so sure if the effect is less prevalent in all other countries. A problem with the separation is that either if it is the parents choice those with an academic background overwhelmingly push their children to Gymnasium, or if it is the teachers choice they have a similar bias. But that is the problem of _implementation_ I meant. It would significantly benefit from reducing the impact of the socioeconomic background (free tutoring for poorer kids, for instance), preventing sending children to Gymnasium just because their parents are academics (although the kids actually struggle) and allowing more options to change tracks, like every or every other year. But at the same time, purely because of personal experience, I basically have to die on that hill. My grades on Gymnasium where always better than in Elementary school, and I would have found prolonging Elementary quite horrific.

[@Stadtpark90]

The German school system has very mediocre outcomes. - So it all depends what you compare it with…

[@pbj0815]

The average American reads at a third grade so…. Compare that 😂

[@r8chlletters]

Sounds intelligent to me

[@sakura44553]

Only here in the video, because she missed to say that the (West)German school system has been in a bad conditions since 19964 (Bildungskatastrophe). The run down school system was "thrown" on East Germany in 1991. Before we had a democratic, fair, equality supporting school system. That was the model where successful countries like Finnland learnes from. There is nothing to learn from the West-German school system!

[@karaelzexceed666]

in Hamburg at least the 13th year is Stadtteilschule and is mostly for laggards who couldn't pass Gymnasium standards but are too good for Realschule and Hauptschule. They do in 13 years what we did in 12

[@AmateurHistorian999]

I'm impressed with the flexibility of the first German system.

[@bonniegaither3994]

I like it for the most part, but it sounds a little classist

[@manueloropeza2312]

Does Germany have a college legacy admission or rich people buying college diploma then becoming the US President problem like we do with Trump or Bush 2 easily our two dumbest Presidents.

[@KityKatKiller]

no

[@andreasarnoalthofsobottka2928]

There were attempts. One earned the University of Bayreuth the nickname Buyreuth. But when we need dump politicians in Germany, we can get them for free i.e. without bribes.

[@manueloropeza2312]

@andreasarnoalthofsobottka2928 Ok how you manage that would be very interesting:)

[@ViviNorthbell]

no

[@koumyou3333]

No, german politicians don't have to have any kind of education or degree. There are even ones who never finished school or worked for one day in their life. It's absolutely insane.

[@annadavis2547]

I would have qualified for the low track in that system. I hold a master’s degree. As a child, i dealt with visual deficits. I have strabismus with nystagmus. I was being treated for these, but I was also nearsighted. Early work required copying work from a blackboard. I could not see it clearly. Board work or morning work as some teachers call it was exhausting and confusing. When nearsightedness was finally treated at 10, I improved immensely but too late in your system. I lived in Germany for few years. I loved the country and the people but was very glad that I did not go to school in their system.

[@mortqqq]

I doubt your vision problem would be an issue in more civilised countries. I have a nephew who at under 4 has just been fitted with age appropriate glasses part way through kindergarten. Why weren't you given corrective lenses? Germany would probably be the same. And copying from a blackboard isn't teaching.

[@annadavis2547]

@ I am from the USA. I had vision card from 6 months on. But my case was complicated. I probably needed glasses in kindergarten but it wasn’t until my third grade teacher realized that I couldn’t read the board. Yes, never ask a child if they can see the board. It’s the big green, black or now days white wall in front of the room. If you have always had trouble reading it, that will seem normal. I had no idea that it was easier for others to see. Even today students learn things that are shown on the board.

[@PDVism]

*facepalm* Either you are full of it or there were other reasons but no, making the claims that you do proves you don't understand. I became nearsighted at around 10, took a while to be discovered... as in a few months because every year there is a medical that every student gets which look among other things eyesight, hearing and overall constitution. So unless you happen to be sick that day anything gets discovered in a years time. Changing of tracks happens, did you watch the vid at all, I kinda doubt it seeing as that she even explicitly mentioned it. Thinking that education in the USA is better than in most other industrialized countries is laughable if not ridiculous and we can prove that by looking at the international stats concerning it. Let's you forget, 20% of US adults can read or parse sentences past a FIFTH grade level. In other words, 20% of US adults have the comprehension level of an 10 year old.

[@LarthV]

Chances for a correct diagnosis would be challenging in all cases, but don’t get too hung up on the tracks. Being set on one of the „lower“ tracks is no lifetime decision. Compare it to being given the chance to take part in an all AP program at 10. If you would have difficulties there at 10 you can do so again at 16 - I have been in university and a PhD program with several people who did that and were quite successful.

[@AIbh-gd9zt]

@@mortqqq WOW!!!! Civilized countries?! WTF?! Where the heck are you from to make such a statement?

[@manueloropeza2312]

How do they find people to bag groceries?

[@mreese8764]

The customers bag their own groceries.

[@LarthV]

This job, curiously, has never existed in Germany. German customers value price over convenience, and that job would increase prices.

[@maximusmalodorus]

​@LarthV Walmart tried it. They failed.

[@arnodobler1096]

We don't have enough people in prison either! (Sarcasm)

[@patmaurer8541]

​@@mreese8764 At many US stores, customers also ring up their own order. One cashier (and security cameras) monitor a dozen registers.

[@careottjuice]

I like the idea of elementary going until 6th grade, and school overall until you're 18. But I don't like to put everyone in the same school. Academic high school and the others are there for a reason

[@ulliulli]

Academic High schools are called "Gymnasium"s in Germany

[@MrAronymous]

The 'tracks' she talks about are actually different types of schools usually.

[@johaquila]

I would recommend against 6 years of primary school. 6 years of primary school was the East German practice. I grew up in West Germany, where we have always had 4 years of primary school. Even today we have 6 years in the Eastern states and 4 in the rest of the country (except for some fine print). I experienced the Eastern practice in one year that I worked as a teacher at a lower/medium track secondary school in an Eastern state. 6 years of primary school no longer works now that society has started to disintegrate and discipline is low. The problem is that switching schools and the onset of puberty roughly coincide, creating all the wrong expectations for the new school in children's minds. I believe things work better if children switch schools 2 years earlier while they are still easily intimidated by the new school and older children there, and ready to adopt a new attitude with more active, self-determined learning than in primary school. The presence of the smaller children also has a calming effect on the secondary school. Not necessarily in terms of noise, but in terms of the severity of conflicts. Being grouped together in the same school with 10-year-olds gives a clear signal to the older children that no, they are not really adults yet.

[@HuberHans]

​@@johaquilaI see your argument and understand where you come from, but can only agree partly. I come from a country(!) with a 6-year primary school and now live in a state with a 4-year primary school with parental decision for the higher educational path(1). Teachers can only give recommendations. As a mother of 4, I had lots of discussions about who goes where. Other parents often overestimated the abilities of their children (in light of the upcoming curriculum), because "otherwise they won't be able to get a job ..."🙄. This argument came especially from those with higher income(2). With that in mind, the pressure on the children grows immensely and quite a lot have to "downgrade". One year it was so bad, the lower school (in this case from Gymnasium to Realschule"), basically a whole new class had to be formed. Those "downgradings" play havoc on the confidence of the children on top of the "failures" in the higher school. My argument for a 6-year primary would be, basic education (e.g. Math) could be more practiced (don't forget reading skills); lesson hours in crafts, music and arts(3) could/should come back in the curriculum. The children themselves also would have more understanding of their capabilities and would have more arguments on hand with their parents (exclud peer pressure in this statement, please). (1) Schools can deny entry when the grades are too bad. (2) Parents from a "lower" financial and/or social standing often don't have the means and/or understanding (even when they wanted to) to support their kid. Those children are often "late bloomers" in my experience. (3) These lessons were scraped to a bare minimum, due to changes in society, new inventions (Hello Computer?) and what the industry lobbied to be needed ... To me, these lessons help children to relax, to stay curious and investigative, as also stabilize personality traits. Disclaimer: I'm sorry, if my reasoning isn't clear enough, English is not my native language and I sometimes have problems to find the correct translation. Everything I wrote, is pure my opinion.

[@mnblkjh6757]

🤣😂

[@markotrieste]

You know that KZbin has the possibility to switch closed captions on or off? You putting your own, colored, almost like a karaoke, is so disturbing.

[@ldegraaf]

I agree that the colorful captions are distracting. However, Google auto captions can be complete garbage so the best solution is for creators to upload their own captions and add a flag at the beginning of the video so people who want good captions can turn them on. However, most of her audience is on TikTok, so it is faster and easier to just add open captions directly on her video and upload it to each platform rather than making and uploading captions for each platform. Also, since KZbin and TikTok have different maximum video lengths this method makes it faster since I'm guessing that there are times where TikTok gets a longer video than KZbin. Maybe she could make them less distracting, but I'm assuming that these "fun" subtitles perform better than plain subtitles because more and more creators are making videos this way. As technology advances I'm sure that auto captions will get better and then maybe we will see creators stop using open captions. As someone who has ADHD and hearing loss I really appreciate accurate closed captions that don't distract from the video, bonus points if I can adjust the color, font and size myself.

[@zelousfoxtrot3390]

I find this horrifying. My second child was diagnosed with ADHD late. He lagged in his academics till middle school. Now that he is on meds, he is an honor role student. Germany's system would have limited him to working a trade, and he loves science. Or we would have had to pay to catch him up, because teachers ignored his issues and he didn't get the help he needed. (I had multiple PT conferences were I asked questions. The number of teachers who dismissed my concerns and implied I was just upset my child wasn't gifted... ugh. He was undiagnosed because he wasn't acting out, he presented his ADHD symptoms more like I did as a child- daydreaming through class. Distracted, unable to focus)

[@peter_meyer]

Um, no. ADHD is well known in Germany, too. Of course you can put your child on meds here too, if you want.

[@farleyxwilbur3867]

Because of the superior healthcare in Germany your child would likely have been diagnosed sooner than he was here. The same meds are available in Germany and he likely would have been tracked to be an honor student even earlier, saving your child some grief.

[@SimonBellaMondo]

It is horrifying. Having a child’s “track” determined at age 10 sounds very restrictive. Give the kids a chance to improve at least.

[@RustyDust101]

​@@SimonBellaMondo did you even watch the entire video? There are multiple ways to change tracks if the student shows willing and capable. As all education is tuition free it is available at all times, even later in life. Compared to the USA where anyone on university track is stuck with one of three possibilities: 1. A very lucky stipend or scholarship. 2. Very rich parents 3. Crushing educational debt for at least ten years assuming they get a great job immediately after finishing their education. Still horrified?

[@wora1111]

You obviously did not listen closely enough. The tracks explained are what the teachers recommend based on the experience they have with the child they had up to this point. You can always choose a different path if you are smarter than the teachers. So can your child. One of my sisters changed from the path to university to trade, worked a few years there and changed her mind again to finish her Abitur, and started to study. Another sister finished her school with Abitur as well, but decided to become a (multilingual) secretary once finished. Exactly that was told in the video as well. If you do not understand this, how can you even assume to know what is best for your kid?

[@FloppimusMaximus]

The tracks seem to pigeon hole students. Not that it isn't possible for them to go up, but it seems to just acknowledge that some aren't good enough.

[@Summalogicae]

Well, good enough for what? After years of schooling, the evidence becomes fairly compelling what tract is most appropriate. Resources exist to change this in the future if one changes their mind or their performance changes such that a different tract is more appropriate. What’s the problem?

[@sammiller6631]

The United States can't use the German system, because their governments are built different. Germany has unicameral parlament (Bundestag) instead of a bicameral congress like the US. The US is legally structured more like the European Union as legally sovereign states who the federal cannot interfere beyond limited enumerated powers written down in the constituition, hence the name "united states". Germany's Bunderat has a level of top-down control over their states that the US Federal does not have, as Germany has nothing like the 10th Amendment.

[@LarthV]

But the decision on Education specifically is guaranteed by the German constitution to be decided by _only_ the federal states…

[@LarthV]

And also note that the Bundesrat is quite exactly the opposite of top down, as it is _only_ made up of representatives of the federal states governments - imagine the Senate, but only Governors and their vices are senators.

[@superwholockpotterhead9247]

German teacher here 👋🏻 Education is left completely in the hands of the different states of Germany. Bavaria has a completely different system than Berlin for example. Even the names of the schools can be different. The curricula are different too. So the Bundestag has nothing to do with the education system.

[@francodenobili7654]

@@sammiller6631 a wonderful explanation - except totally wrong 😂 The US can not use the German system because all the Billionaires in Congress believe that only wealthy should enjoy an Education . And now that the full blown idiots are taking over House, Senate and geeeee - the Presidency 😱🙄 it will get even worse. The Red States , despite being dead last in pretty much everything since DECADES are now inventing history new, Bible studies and and and - most likely now the world in conservative States will be flat 😂 on every map. They already said that the Department of Education will be eliminated 😂 - since bible wielding Trump fans are soooooo smart that they don't need a Department for Education 😂😂😂 Gee , America - you really turned into a sh.thole - what am I glad I went back to Germany 🥳🙋

[@sammiller6631]

@@superwholockpotterhead9247 If education is different in each state, then what's the "German style" they're talking about? Various US states have vocational track programs, even if the US state she grew up in did not.

[@DanielFlonnster]

Home schooling being illegal is disturbing. I don’t personally home school my three kids but parents should be able to,do so if they desire. The German state has too much power over its citizens IMO, but I am American who has successfully “pulled myself up by my bootstraps” so my way of thinking is different for sure.

[@RemusAvGeek]

I'd rather a democratic government have too much power than unaccountable corporations

[@DB-jk8vs]

During the pandemic a friend of mine who is a certified teacher in Germany couldn't teach their own children.

[@hape3862]

Yeah, stupid parents teaching their kids religious/ideological/conspiracy bullshit or nothing at all sounds like a really good idea to me! What could go possibly wrong?

[@DB-jk8vs]

@@hape3862 a teacher in Germany is a "State' employee. Upon certification/acceptance of the teaching license you can be assigned ANYWHERE in the STATE. If you for example do your DEGREE in another state & want to change back to your "Home state" or otherwise you may lose (TMK)your "status" as a govt employee. The German police also can be assigned ANYWHERE in Germany. So far the only way(I've seen)to tweak that is 2 blue stripes PDQ or have "legacy" such as your parent(s) having high level positions in the system such as "School director".

[@Ashorisk]

it is a little bit of a different view :) your view is heavily influenced by your US view: more power to the parents , less power to the government. Also keep in mind that in the US corporoeal punishment is allowed ... and e freedom of religion in case of children is always the freedom of their parents. If you overexxagerate you could say in the US, children are "property" of their Parents. In germany we have a slight different view on the government/state ... and our state sees the Children not as possession of their parents but as a small citizens that are worth of protection (like being free from corporeal punishment). the problem is not homeschooling itself but the risk that comes with homeschooling - they are more common than most US people think. The state simply decided that this risk is not worth to allow it in general but make it an exception ! Schools are great for local community - schooltime in germany is less than in the US .. and sport and other activites are organized in a different way - so even when you have trouble to fit in, there is plenty of time to find a club where you feel "home". The german state simply thinks his "children citizen" have a right to "multiple sources to knowledge" and no parent is allowed to "cut off" their children from the german society. (you can always teach your kids additional knowledge)

[@AIbh-gd9zt]

I feel the flexibility that American high schools offer is much better. You forgot to mention that each of these “tracks” requires a separate school. Students are separated and pigeon holed. There is not much “upward” mobility happening during the program, but rather after you finish 10th grade. students have to repeat a whole year, if they get failing grades in core subjects. The “gymnasium” college prep schools have such a superficial coverage of many subjects that people joke about it. Students have minimal elective choices. I have been in both school systems, and feel the American high school system is way better. You also fail to mention that it is REALLY hard for parents to find pre-school/kindergarten spots. So much so, that they start signing up for spots before the child is born.

[@iatsd]

Students are certainly streamed in the German system, but it is done so on the basis of ACTUAL PERFORMANCE. Y'know: an actual meritocracy. Unlike the US system, which fails students upwards based on the socioeconomic grouping and ability to pay, while *claiming* to be a meritocracy. Have you been in a *failing* high school system in the US? That's the problem with the US: the disparity in inputs. If you're born in the wrong place and the wrong economic environment then you're screwed. The German system is more even and students *can* and *do* fail up or down on their own efforts. Or lack thereof.

[@AIbh-gd9zt]

@ so, You are telling me a child’s actual academic potential is accurately predicted and determined during fourth grade? They are starting to classify children by age ten or eleven, and put them on certain tracks that will determine the rest of their lives. I am speaking from personal experience, and what I saw was predominantly immigrant background children were disproportionately in the Hauptschule vs Gymnasium. So, please don’t tell me there is no discrimination there! The “failing” schools in the US get plenty financial “input”. Their poor “output” is not necessarily related to the funding, but environmental support the children receive at home. I never said that either system is great. I just pointed out the omissions in the comparisons.

[@krisniznik3953]

@@AIbh-gd9zt There is no perfect system, but in the U.S. WAY too much depends on the child's economic status. Each state funds schools slightly differently, but in some states public school funding is dependent on property taxes which are obviously lower in poorer areas. There are a lot of places where if the parents can't manage a private school, (if there even is a good one nearby) the child's educational potential is limited. But in wealthier suburban areas the public schools are often excellent so it varies widely.

[@mariotomazzoni6523]

There was once upward mobility in the German school system. The majority of the children went to the vocational track (Hauptschule) and attended a professional school (Berufsschule) during their apprenticeship, usually 65 days per year/2-3 days per week. Those schools also teach general education in addition to the theoretical part of the craft (like matematics & physics for electricians), and also have laboratories for pratical education so apprentices can also be trained on stuff their company usually don't does. Graduation from those schools and two years of experience in the field allowed to enter a technicians school that lead to a state certificate after 2 years (staatlich geprüfter Techniker) or an engineer titel after 4 years of additional full time professional education. The other track after apprenticeship was to take after work/weekend courses in business administration, instruction of apprentices and additional professional skills and to make an exame at the chamber of commerce/association of the craftsmen to earn the title of a master craftsman (Meister des ... Handwerks). Usually positions in middle management were filled up with master craftsmen or the graduates from a technicans school. So that happend? Frist today most childern go the other two tracks, and the Hauptschule has become the dumping ground for children with educational or social deficits. Second the way to graduate with an engineer titel after 4 years was taken away from the Techncians schools and transfered to the Fachhochschule ("University of applied science"). Graduates from the technicians school could still attend to those universities, but didn't get any benefits from their apprenticeship, their two years of experience and the additional 2 years of professional education. So instead of trained professionals graduates from the Gymnasium and drop outs from the Universities go to the Fachhochschule. Fun fact I: the "real Universities" were upset about the Fachhochschules right to give out the engineer title so they lobbied at the states to make it a 2nd class title and force graduates to add "FH" to their engineer titel, while Universities gave out the titel of "Diplom Ingenieur". Fun fact II: the German implentamation of the "European Qualifications Framework" put the "staatlich geprüfter Techniker", the "Meister des ... Handwerks", the "Diplom Ingenieur FH", the "Diplom Ingenieur" on the same level as a bachelors degree (level 6 of 8), not to the amusement of both of the types of Universities.

[@Summalogicae]

This is laughable! There is no “flexibility” in American high schools. And fyi, there are far more “separate schools” in America than Germany could ever hope to provide. The real problems you identify are the sorts of things that arise when profits are the driving force behind policy.

[@markcrawford5810]

Completely free subsidized by the government. Use the word free. I don't think it means what you think it means.

[@krisniznik3953]

We are propagandized not to trust it.

[@FloppimusMaximus]

The word free means paid for by the people who benefit the most from the skilled labor it provides.

[@markcrawford5810]

@FloppimusMaximus That's not what the word means.

[@Summalogicae]

Please, tell us what it means. On average, European countries, including Germany, pay a smaller percentage in taxes than middle-class and below poverty line Americans. And what do they get for it? Universal healthcare, virtually no cost education all the way to the universities, between 13-34 weeks paid family leave, 3-6 weeks paid vacation-all that is guaranteed, not based on whether you have some awesome job. America is a joke. They pay higher taxes, they pay the highest medical care with worst outcomes, most people don’t have healthcare, and going to college puts people in debt for decades. You can keep your American system.

[@markcrawford5810]

@Summalogicae First, stop comparing the European system to the American system. I'm not in favor of it either. It's a status corporative system. I do not like it any more than your status system. Second, government is the reason why college is expensive in America. Because of guaranteed loans, colleges increased prices.

[@jerriskiles2856]

I disagree with the homeschooling part.

[@krisniznik3953]

Kids need some structure and socialization. They can learn a lot of the basics at home if their parents are educated enough and spend enough time on it, but they also need to be exposed to more topics than is possible to happen at home. It is always necessary to supplement school with reading, and taking them out for a while if they're being bullied or for other health reasons can work but, they need the peer interaction for overall development.

[@FloppimusMaximus]

I disagree with us allowing home schooling in America. The fact that a white nationalist group has homeschool materials and 240,000 reported students... Yeah no.

[@mariotomazzoni6523]

There is no homeschooling in Germany, but you can send your children to a private school based on Anthroposophy or run by the catholic or protestant churches. The majority of the cost will be covered by the German states, and the remaining school fee prevents poor families to send their children to those schools. Any troublemakers from rich families will get kicked out, because unlike the state schools privat schools don't have to keep them.

[@Summalogicae]

Why do you disagree, what are your reasons? Most homeschooling in America is done by people without a BA degree, with views that skew toward religion (in America that typically means right-wing Evangelical fundamentalist) and they deny the most basic facts about science and history. It’s a scam and a joke.

[@DB-jk8vs]

So much rainbows & fluffy clouds I doubt you can see the nose on your face. Germany pays the towns(Städte/Landkreis usw) 1800€/month per child for the "Kitas/Krippen". Instead of paying the parents of the newborn/infant. They're about to cancel "Elterngeld" which is CAPPED at 1800€/month(since 2007?) & can be less based on the income of the parent(s). So 1 year olds are basically forced into an overloaded/understaffed system instead of staying with a parent until the age of 5-7 as EXPERTS recommend. Because the parents can't AFFORD to stay home with their child(ren). 250€/month is nothing when dealing with a child. A "training" doesn't really teach you anything as you don't qualify for minimum wage & it certainly does not allow/grant you to attend "FH" OR ESPECIALLY 'UNI'. The "trades" wages are abysmal compared to say the US/CAN/AUS/UK?. as in a "journeyman' can make less than it costs to live in GERMANY. There is no easy way for someone who "sucked" in say math to be able to attain "Abi" as a trade also doesn't count Towards "Abi" or especially an "Abschluss". Yes tuition is basically "free' but almost every "Uni" is in the most expensive places in Germany where rent can be 1000€/month. The availability of "distance/adult education" is less than a podunk town in the US. Maybe you should look behind the curtain and see the old man instead of the "Wonderful wizard".

[@hape3862]

Seek mental help!

[@loc4725]

Thank you. I thought there may be an objectivity problem with some of these videos when she attacked the U.S.'s official reason for banning TikTok, and what you've said supports this thinking. As usual things are almost always more complicated than people make out, especially when they have an agenda to push.

[@arnodobler1096]

Schmarrn. Just one thing: universities make rents in these cities more expensive, not the other way around.

[@superwholockpotterhead9247]

Admittedly I do believe there is a problem with Bafög not taking into account where you live cause obviously living in Berlin or Munich is much more expensive than in smaller towns. But when I was in uni from 2016-2023 my parents were lucky enough to financially help me through. I had about 800€ per month and I was able to finance basically my whole life with that. Rent, semester fee, food, clothes, Wi-Fi, power, water etc. There are hundreds of unis to choose from, you just got to do the research into the cities and see which ones are in your price range.

[@DB-jk8vs]

@superwholockpotterhead9247 that's fking ludicrous. If you have to "budget" which school you attend then move to the US where a community College can provide you with "Uni" level education in areas that don't care what your parents or grandparents did. You should want to go to the best institution for what you want to learn. Of course Berlin, München etc are obscenely expensive but that's more the government/schools fault. Having a waiting list for med school is almost exclusively a German thing. In the US you can begin EMT & then midway go to med school. In Germany you can become Rettungssani(3.5 years)& still be waiting for a slot.