What Ironwood could have done Better! | Team JYCT #30

The intrepid Team JYCT discuss the divisive General James Ironwood and his plans during Volumes 7 and 8 of RWBY, what he did wrong and what he possibly could have done better! Join us for the fun!
Cohosts
Twilight Guardian: @twilightguardian
Young Kaiser: @KaiserShounen
Judgmental Critter: @thejudgmentalcritter6584
Timecodes (courtesy of TBD)

[@virgilbarrios3174]

If CRWBY wanted me to hate Ironwood, they shouldn't have made him so based.

[@joshuafrazier3904]

Exactly

[@Legacy_of_Yata-Garasu]

TRUE

[@Gdsryrox]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYfLYZWDg7h5qdU Ironwood theme

[@littlekuribohimposte]

It's like how the writers of Velma accidnetally made the rich white men the only based characters in the show.

[@thomasraines1396]

The thing is with me is that I don’t have a problem with Ironwood going insane (after everything that happened it would be unrealistic if he didn’t in my opinion), my problem is none of the characters react or care that he does, he’s ultimately written off as basically a James Bond Villain. Hell they could’ve had him go out like any of Noble Team from Halo Reach (either version of Noble Six, Emile, or Jorge specifically), self sacrifice all in the name of keeping people safe, or even Grifter from “Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox” where he dies in a last stand but still manages to go out like a badass. Or if they wanted to work the tragedy angle have Qrow go through with killing him but play as a legitimately sad moment: have Qrow approach the situation like Optimus Prime after Megatron dies in the first “Transformers” where he claims “You left me no choice Brother” or like Daryl from the “Walking Dead” as he mercy kills Dale while saying “Sorry Brother”. Hell Ironwood is the only one who seems legitimately sad at how things went down (his crying before he fights Winter).

[@konstellashon1364]

MCU Agents of SHIELD did better making Gen Talbot's villain turn sympathetic. First, his criticism of the Agents and their conduct was about half correct most of the time. Even if the main characters didn't always acknowledge it, there'd be a scene to show the audience that listening to Talbot would've worked. Second, an assassination attempt left Talbot with brain damage. Specifically shown in the series, unlike revealing a Semblance via podcast or Livestream Q&A. Finally, when gaining superpowers overwhelmed his mind to the breaking point, the main characters all acknowledge the good he's done and hold on to hope that he can be talked down.

[@7Celestron]

Still waiting for that "Great Potato Salad" semblance you talked about, Celtic.

[@notallthatevil]

The guy from the video keeps mentioning fuel and energy resources as if Jimmy Two Seats plan doesn’t hinge on getting the infinite energy stick

[@felipefenelonbonifaciodaco2845]

I got some ideas for Fixing Rwby, feal free to criticize or use these ideas: - The ironwood problem: have the same dilema but team rwby and ironwoods forces dont enter in direct conflict. Ironwood has access to the relic and team Rwby defends Mantle, but Mantle cant be saved and something is stoping Atlas from leaving (is clear that if they worked with one another then either plan would have worked), then in the ending of V8 when things look hopless ironwood sacrifices himself to save everybody (maybe even Atlas because for some random reason we see at Vacuo that Amity and the military somehow survived and that could be Atlas instead, afterwords maybe ruby has her depression arc because if she made the decision to side with ironwood instead of doubting him (because of her experience with Leo, Ospin and Cordovin), more people would have lived maybe even ironwood himself. - For how Salem didn't win already if she did so much so fast: you can make so that ospin managed to seal her in her tower, or at least the dragon continent and thats why she did't make a move having to relay on people that accidentally wonder or are brought to her, but in volume 7 she gets freed, maybe ospins absence and romans unique resistance to him have something to do with it - For Vales fall: In volume 7 and or 8 we get a side plot (like the one in FV4) were we see that Vale (and maybe Minstral) is struggling thanks to Atlas dust embargo and romans dust thefts, which causes a lack of resources (dust), while Vale is constantly under assault from the grimm, then it falls when Salem goes there after Atlas falls, because her force is too depleted to take on Vacuo after Atlas, so its better to take out the straglers before they regroup. -The new villains from the books: in the original we get teased with the fact that their could be more servants of Salem because in her council table there were two extra chairs, so you could make a scene like that, then in Vacuo we get introduce to them infiltrated as huntsmen (the books aren't canon in this), but unlike in Vale, Mistral and Atlas, they are stopped before its to late showing that the heroes have improved. -Ruby`s remember her message: Make it about (a new fixed) ironwood sacrifice/message, their is no way for Ruby to do anything in V8 so that a random kid gets that much praise when they lost a kingdom -Why is every body in Vacuo: its only volunteers, hunters and the militaries of all kingdom's, they are there because everybody knows that that`s where Salems next target is and it will be their final stand, maybe the atlisians can stay if you make so that Atlas survives thanks to a ironwood sacrifice or something. -Why Salem doesn't immediately attack: she is rebuilding her forces *the ironwood sacrifice could be something as simple as him blowing himself up, (with the grimm at Atlas being a considerable part of Salems forces), maybe with a better semblance

[@PyroMaker3]

i was bothered by how volume 1 was like "aura and soul are separate things" but then later volumes act like its the soul which was such a bizarre change

[@Wesley-1776]

My friend. GreenTheRyno (read his fic Ruby B312) changed ironwoods semblance to basically let him accurately predict the end to any fight based off the information he has. So like, say he’s directing a battle and he goes to move a unit, but oh no he can see that move meant to break the Grimm will leave them exposed and get the unit wiped out. And he’s 100% right But if he doesn’t have something it can’t be considered in his predictions.

[@boss5718]

To me that kinda sounds like he’s being a good strategist with above average abilities in forethought. Nifty idea though.

[@abelzerihun7985]

00:00-4:19 Waiting Room 5:36-6:34 Stream’s Premise 7:07-7:52 Appeal to Motive 10:29-16:07 Character Assassination 16:59-17:52 Metal 19:27-20:56 Nuzlocke 24:16-24:49 Architect vs Gardener 26:36-27:25 Preferential Redemption 32:04 Video Starts 40:18-40:42 Hypothetically if… 41:52-47:39 Gacha Games 50:00-50:45 Blazblue 52:13-52:49 The Relics 56:40-57:36 Part of Podcasting 58:25-58:48 “Too Heavy” 59:40-1:00:40 “The Concept Art” - 1:06:09-1:07:42 Hydration 1:09:45-1:11:32 V9 Venting 1:12:30-1:15:41 Plant Dust 1:19:09-1:20:03 War-time Restrictions 1:23:47-1:25:48 Atlas Tower? 1:28:14-1:31:10 RWBY’s always Right 1:38:44-1:42:18 Fan Art 1:43:58-1:46:59 Vale 1:47:24-1:47:56 “Large firepower” 1:52:09 Video Ends 1:53:51-1:54:25 Review 1:59:09-1:59:58 Editing - 2:01:47-2:03:06 Final Fantasy 2:07:40 Second Video Starts 2:11:00-2:12:51 VIZ acquiring RWBY 2:13:17-2:14:17 “Intermediate Maiden” 2:17:51-2:18:06 Norm the Genie 2:22:15-2:23:56 Grimm Evolution? 2:27:08-2:28:19 Long Video=Good 2:34:54-2:37:01 Atlas’s Areas 2:37:08-2:37:42 VAs aren’t Writers 2:38:32-2:39:27 God of Light 2:40:00-2:41:56 Floating City 2:43:52 Second Video Ends 2:45:34-2:48:00 Zatch Bell 2:49:00-2:53:56 Female Dynamics 2:56:03-2:58:51 I’m a woman 2:59:44 Third Video Starts - 3:02:32-3:02:59 Pietro 3:03:02-3:03:14 Jacque 3:03:16-3:03:34 Laser eyes 3:03:40-3:04:44 Famity 3:05:38-3:06:03 “Co-worker aren’t family” 3:06:55-3:07:19 Hey guys no family 3:07:22-3:07:45 Fake Daughter 3:08:31-3:08:51 Ne-fari-ous 3:09:04-3:09:19 “she didn’t lose anything” 3:10:23-3:10:37 The Power of Family? 3:11:38 Third Video Ends 3:12:12-3:13:12 Ironwood discussion 3:13:55-3:14:33 Trolly problem 3:15:16-3:17:46 Anime Homework 3:24:08-3:28:59 The Nostalgia Critic 3:29:11-3:30:05 Game Grumps 3:31:11-3:32:36 Art Segment 3:42:23-3:44:08 Hoof Trimming 3:44:59-3:51:34 Ad Time 3:51:35-3:51:38 Signing Off

[@joshuafrazier3904]

I really try to defend Ozpin and his actions but like he's so god damn dumb which sadly just makes him seem hilariously incompetent in comparison to everyone else because he's supposed to be the experience couple thousand year old with a bunch of solutions. This lead us viewers to wonder the fuck is he doing cause he has access to four ridiculously OP relics and never used them to beat Salem which honestly wouldn't be hard. Its literally just ask Jinn how to use the staff to seal Salem indefinitely and then how to build a ship that can send the staff off planet so no one can use it to release her. Boom they win gg no re.

[@rjbrinkley]

For my RWBY rewrite Mettel is literally just the guy in cinders back story semblence but on iron wood instead so far.

[@aidenhughes2472]

Dose he and the step sister and mother have a names at all in cinders backstory

[@Legacy_of_Yata-Garasu]

I know that I already said this during the stream, but I feel that I need to say this again. If it came to it, would it be possible to create a weapon with the Staff of Creation that could destroy the relics? If so then just destroy one relic and Salem won’t be able to destroy humanity problem solved.

[@timotheebrasseur6188]

I mean, she wouldn't have the nuclear option but she would still be an immortal superpowerfull witch with an infinite monster army

[@johannesseyfried7933]

I doubt it. The relics were created by the gods. I am pretty sure they are immune to even their own powers. You couldn't destroy the relic of choice with the relic of destruction for example.

[@ObsoletePerson]

If that were possible, then it would be possible for the Staff of Creation to make another Staff of Creation, and so on and so forth. But I don't think that's likely; I can't imagine that you could use a Relic to replicate a god's feat. That said, I do think they could just use the Staff to make a gelatinous bubble around Salem and trap her in there. Or portal her directly inside a Vault.

[@curtislangdon8294]

If destroying the Relics was a option, why not just use the actual Sword of Destruction? One would think such a relic would able to do just that and skip using the creation staff to make a destructive weapon. In fact, it may be because the Sword already is about Destruction thus the staff of creation can't be used to make things to destroy, since that's what the Sword is supposed to do. Similar question, did Ozpin even try to kill Salem with the Sword of Destruction, or what effect would that have?

[@joshuafrazier3904]

@@ObsoletePersonthe thing about vaulting Salem is the fact that its implied that Ozpin made the vaults not the gods because it would otherwise make no sense for the vaults to be keyed to the maidens when they don't exist yet unless anyone sufficiently magical could open the vault. If its not that then the vaults where initially keyed to specifically Ozpin’s magic which begs the question on why he gave it away then when no one can steal magic. Why would he trust four random people with t he fate of the world??? At least keep one vault keyed to yourself in case the others turn evil!!! Also If Ozpin could make the vaults(cause it makes no sense for him not to have) then it makes sense that Salem could escape them. Of course if the vault is made by the staff that could change but my point about her potentially escaping the vault still stands.

[@jamespaguip5913]

2:01:51 RWBY was inspired by both Black rock shooter and final fantasy.

[@flingza1798]

Team rwby: im going to beat you with the power of friendship, and this gun i found

[@konstellashon1364]

yeah, total plot bs that Team R could suddenly fix Amity Tower in a day. Those materials Robyn stole wee never returned. But here's a thought I had a while after CC's videos came out, but never shared: Amity as a lifeboat. The comm tower shouldn't have been ready, but it's still a huge stadium floating on Gravity Dust. Ironwood gets to try his plan to bring Atlas up, while Jaune and Ren and others lead the remaining Mantle refugees to the stadium where they too can rise above the land-based Grimm. Once they get some time to clear their heads, they can decide more like who's going where (higher or towards another Kingdom), if they split up or stay together, and if anyone wants to transfer from one to the other via airship.

[@SwitchbackCh]

Since y'all mentioned gacha games and Hoyoverse I of course feel obligated to play devil's advocate. Monetisation aside, many gacha games and particularly Hoyo titles are still functional and even compelling games underneath - RWBY interestingly shares so much DNA with these games over any other video game title or genre simply because of how unapologetically ANIME these games are; and no title emulates this kind of "RWBYesque" energy more succinctly than the recently released Zenless Zone Zero. I'll also add that culturally, gacha games are a lot more popular and well-loved in Asia and Southeast Asia where I'm from, largely because they're free to play, mobile-friendly and their daily login systems end up slotting really well into our lifestyles, compared to Western audiences who are more focused around "real games" having to be something with a price tag, rating and can sit on your shelf. It's an acquired taste and is considerably important for a lot of third-world gamers who cannot afford dedicated consoles or high-power PCs.

[@thomasraines1396]

Zenless Zone Zero is great, it can be pretty dower and serious but it is also unapologetically insane and over the top it’s great.

[@flingza1798]

58:47 penny said that they wanted to conserve the gravity dust for the launch

[@shadowroxili123]

damn,, even on a rwby discussion video i cant escape hoyo discourse

[@KaiserShounen]

This is the first time this happened, I swear lol

[@LcplAnimeGuy]

3:23:30 ever considered Violet Evergarden to show to your parents sense it's about healing wounds after a war? Or even some of the Gundam shows?

[@hermannmakuta3311]

I want to tell you RWBY IQ has now a funny Abridged A Stream about it would be amazing

[@mpd1732]

Man, imagine if we had gotten a season of RWBY where it took place on Atlas while it was flying to it's wherever destination... That would be cool. I haven't watched the later Rwby seasons so my understanding of events and the timelines of when they happen are skewed, so forgive but I just want to toss ideas around with this in mind. -It being a ship automatically makes the council game vibes a pseudo mutiny on who gets to steer the ship, which is fun -Robin can actually be a neat Robin Hood in where she's not just doing crime and getting away with it, but rather she could be/have been smuggling Mantle civilians into the ship before it took off, team Rwby evolvement sure in having them wanting everyone to be safe and doing this plan. Later conflict as the heads didn't account for this in terms of resources or whatever, you can do a lot with opinions on the council about this. -The city-ship going down and being destroyed is more weighty and less blame on a person as, come on this impulse-built city was not going to last long against real siege. More weighty as in, they're no longer a military officially visiting another country for help but are now stranded refugees. -Clover can have a really good meaningful death, if his semblance of Luck was used as an ultimate sacrifice if it was framed as his Luck power is what protected the citizens as the city crashed or whatever at the cost of his life as he no longer had any for his own luck based survival. -Could lead to a fun Qrow arc as in a grieving state may conclude that he feels his purpose to self-sacrifice and sabotage the villains with bad luck. Ruby, post whatever if you want that minecraft game over arc, can give her uncle whatever pep talk she learned. Hey, what do you know, making volume 9 have more impact beyond itself. -Vacuo has more cause for some hostility since they literally crashed into their kingdom under more dire circumstances, unexpectedly. Not just being ill-thought out teleportation of refugees to some random spot in the desert, this makes so that this clearly *wasn't* a choice they wanted. -The cast can "fall" in a different way, into whatever weird dimension you want but this time the ones who don't know what happened in that mysterious fight just think they landed in some other part of Vacuo. Plausible reason as to believing they can come back. -Final and completely biased, it shouldn't be Wonderland, it should be Neverland. Wonderland is played out. You can do whatever Wonderland stuff you want in Neverland. It comes with it's own thematic tie in that you don't have to wibble wabble a whole tree and ascension rules into a weird Wonderland story that it doesn't gel with. "Not wanting to grow up," there, no uncomfortable metaphor, the girls have to ask if they want to stay in Neverland in comfort and character (Yang and Blake thinking this is the only way they can get to be a couple if there's no conflict in the world going on), and Ruby facing the question if she wants to give up the fight. Also *Jaune* as Peter Pan and his lost boys, good sure. However, adult Jaune as Captain Hook in his role to challenge/enforce the theme??? Yes please! To tie it in, Atlas ship sailing to the second star on the right yadda yadda. Like I said, this one was totally biased. Take my ideas. Please? Please. Neverland in RWBY.

[@matthewharner1744]

Stream starts at 4:21

[@Deterex525]

Art reactions 24:50, 59:09, 1:27:20, 2:15:32, 3:30:15

[@attioking1950]

For honkai star rail. Boothill. Hes why i got into it. Cyborg space cowboy.

[@seanfulldark]

I can't wait for pennies explanation of Ruby's powers being teleportation and her going "what?" And Celtics somehow making it sound like it makes sense for that joke to exist instead of every single time it shows up in the RWby universe! [Look it's not my fault that rooster teeth is such a terrible team of writers that they forgot the rules of their teleportation or they've been secretly writing a teportation character by accident when they've been trying to write a speedster there's distinct rules and understanding between those two power sets Ironically a speedster does not need line of sight! a teleporter does! Speedsters cannot pick up a person while still in movement they have to technically stop or risk cutting the person in half teleporters also have to stop but only to take them into the field of their teleportation system ruby is the only one that doesn't have to worry about that because of how hard temportation system works!]

[@ObsoletePerson]

FAMILY~!

[@homunculus7]

Speaking of plants I once made a Mutant whos power wasnt to control plants perse it was that his body worked like a natural green house so inside him were sacs of fluid nutrient to promote rapid plant growth and seeds that function as white cells that are basicaly geneticaly blank and through chemicals and phermones his inner green house created would be given an identity and purpose but it required alot of study in plant biology to work out etc. as a side effect his body started turning more plant like overtime because it was a natural ecosystem that defended itself to damage by causing his body to change for example he was in a car accident when he was younger that left most of his bones broken so his body seeing that as a threat to the ecosystem as a whole flushed him with chemicals that turned his bones into hard rubber like cartalige like the ones made from tree sap etc. I was just tired of the usual I can somehow control plant life with no real explanation of how i can make plants move and grow super fast and i look like a dryad for no reason.

[@mysteryxio9957]

Have these 4 take their RWBY OCs and run a DnD campaign in the world of remnant with a better RWBY plot and lore

[@goldenangel158]

That's this mean that the justice league rwby movies are no longer canon since viz media bought rwby because in the new movie of infinity criess on earths the entire dc universe got destroyed and rebooted into one single timeline so if the crossover movies are still canon will that mean the rwby universe is destroyed

[@konstellashon1364]

Yea, there's a lot to unpack with crwby's mismanagement of Ironwood. Relying on cliches, lackluster foreshadowing, copying themes from other works, all leading up to his character derailment. I can see how they thought they were setting up a double subversion. 'He looks and behaves like he's a bad guy, but he's not. Oh, but then he became a bad guy in the end! Great plot twist, right? Pat me on the back.' Things I've said in defense of James Ironwood: ▪ The TYPE of anti-military or anti-authoritarian tone not fit a world filled with relentless, human-eating monsters. Especially when the alternative is a glorified mercenary system known as Huntsmen and Huntresses. Vol 4 to 6 displayed the greed and neglect as they explored Mistral. ▪ It was Robyn's misconception that James neglected Mantle because he doesn't care about the poor, which somehow became audience head canon despite seeing the contrary. He openly showed disdain for the snobs at the Vol 4 party when he defended Weiss. "She's the only one making sense around here." ▪ Character Knowledge vs Audience Knowledge. Almost all his bad calls had a "good on paper" vibe and went wrong because of lack of information. At times, specifically someone withholding info from him. This goes all the way back to Vol 2 when he took over the Festival. If he had known Oz gave Team R special treatment to test Ruby's Silver Eyes, he might've been supportive. ▪He was not 'always a dictator' and the Atlas/Mantle issues were not his sole fault. Penny's dad said it was after Beacon fell that James upped his authority. The wealth gap issues would be generational, with past-life-Oz and previous Councils deciding things that made Atlas more important to "The Big Picture." The Relic, the Maiden, the Academy, and the population majority were what James prioritized, not the snobs in their mansions.

[@aidenhughes2472]

Rwby needs to do a crossover with arknights or any of the hoyovers game or kuro games

[@oscarborjajr1176]

That be a fun and cool idea. Especially with ark nights. have rwby team up with blazblue like in the game. Or blue aquaive. They will not resist sensei face. Plus it would make the shippers angry. But yeah I agree with archknights or they should bring back that awsome Chinese mobile game

[@parkermaisterra8532]

Could easily see RWBY fit into ZZZ or at least make a cameo or something

[@jamespaguip5913]

RWBY was inspired by Black rock shooter and soul eater.

[@TitanXecutor]

Sadly I missed much of the stream but several things I wanted to say One: Poor Ironwood. With all he was trying to do, the show constantly tried to gaslight us that he was evil the whole time when he put in far more effort than Team RWBY, the people who whine and antagonize people when things don't go their way and refuse to learn from their mistakes. Two: "Grimm evolve like Pokemon for the cold" Does Miles mean the Grimm are able to adapt to the cold? Did he not pay attention to Biology? If they don't care about their world and story, why should I? Three: If you ask me, RWBY seems like a project that is now led by people who have no passion in what they were working on who only work on it because it makes the company money. Even in the early volumes, while not great, there was SOME level of passion for what was being worked on, even when the writing wasn't the best. Now It feels like RT wanted compensation for taking the easy way out on several things like "Oh our animation is getting better! Watch our show!" and "Hey look it's your favorite anime VA's we hired! Watch our show!" and "Hey look at these serious topics and ideologies we talk about! Watch our show!" and "Hey our show is cross overing with several properties like Justice League! Watch our show!" It's like JYCT said in their previous streams, RWBY tries to be anything but itself. And I hate how they have to rely on tactics like the VA's and crossovers instead of just hiring people who know how to run a show. I'm not saying passion will save the show, but it might help it more. Anyways, great stream as always.

[@curtislangdon8294]

Why do people keep assuming the Staff of creation can make weapons? The Sword of Destruction already exists.

[@michaeldorsey9231]

1:21:50 That was a great joke, good on Pete

[@ObsoletePerson]

I have a suggestion for something you could all do next stream: watch the Animator vs Animation videos.

[@LcplAnimeGuy]

3:15:01 so Crwby are the Chinese knock off of Chinese knockoffs of how to do story telling except some Chinese story tellers are somehow better at copying and applying story telling to there copied craft. Yea sounds about right

[@pokemonmaster1505]

I apologize for my superchat making Celtic turn racist...😢

[@zeroconnect5910]

3:33:35 Critter. This is a sign. Go watch the first season of Digimon. Now. You will thank your mind later.

[@Th4tOn36uy]

Man i gave the Arknights Anime 6 episodes and dropped it, its world just did not interest me at all

[@Gdsryrox]

Not trust current team rwby