What is EDM? A tour at Spectre EDM!

[@the_freebeard]

He takes incredibly good care of his machines. Even the older machines look super clean and in great shape!

[@MatthewMelson]

Thank you, that is a great compliment. We take pride in our equipment.

[@travssthlm7750]

I was thinking of the same thing! Takes effort to have the machines like that! Nice shop!

[@the_freebeard]

@@MatthewMelson It definitely shows. I only wish the company I worked for felt the same way.

[@MatthewMelson]

@@the_freebeard well when the person paying for the machines works on them too, they tend to be taken care of better if you know what I mean.

[@roadiesgarage3816]

I agree, care of them and they'll take care of you and you'll see a lot less of me😅😅👍

[@nutsmcflurry3737]

Mr Saunders, you do a great service to the industry by making these videos. And to people like myself that am just interested in how things work. I think in the last three months I've watched all of your shop/industry tours. Time well spent, thank you.

[@nyccnc]

thanks!

[@cgtspl]

No questions, just a statement... That was absolutely amazing. Thanks so much for opening our eyes to a technology that typically goes unnoticed. And thanks Spectre for allowing this to happen. Great video.

[@MatthewMelson]

Thank you very much. John and his team made this an absolute pleasure to bring this video to everyone.

[@davidrochberg1253]

An EDM shop tour without the obligatory hardened steel cube that splits into two pieces along an invisibly-thin cut line. Who knew such a thing was possible :-) ?

[@MatthewMelson]

Haha, yes that would have been cliche

[@BZT-1]

I was skimming trough the video just looking for that. It has to be in the shape of a snowflake nowadays of course.

[@angrydragonslayer]

last one i saw was a rotating snowflake actually

[@JamesEsau]

"We try to keep a clean shop" says the guy with one of the most immaculate shops you've ever seen

[@maikeydii]

Speaking of immaculate, check @aceroprecision at Instagram ;)

[@gearloose703]

Pro tip: mix soap in your edm fluid to keep your shop clean :D

[@Trident_Euclid]

@@gearloose703 Doesn't sound like a bad idea at all

[@Braeden123698745]

It must be nice when the mill isn't flinging oily chips all over the show

[@peterc5512]

Spectre? Could be just a front, all the clandestine dirty work is done underground or under 100-s of feet of deionized water... 🤣

[@Hi_Doctor_Nick]

This was how i started engineering, 16 years old programming a Sodick A350 for a tool and die company. Made the electrodes for the die sinker. A lot of the punches we eroded we form ground the profile first to reduce cycle time on the EDM. 10 minutes on the grinder could save over an hour sparking. Used a few Mitsubishi's as well, lovely m/c to use. nice workshop tour guys.

[@benwilms3942]

Favourite episode so far! Clean, competent shop, lots of knowledge, and a flowing dialogue between people who have passion and want to be in the conversation. Thankyou.

[@mabmachine]

What a great shop, the "old" equipment is immaculate. So awesome to see these shops here in Ohio.

[@mkegadgets4380]

That was the fastest hour in a long time, thanks.

[@JohnSL]

That was an hour? I had to go back and check because it went by quickly.

[@bcbloc02]

Thanks for the tour!! Good to see the tape machine still doing it’s thing!

[@Kenionatus]

I worked in a place with a fake tape machine. It's a stationary electromagnet that imitates the tape's magnetisation. Sadly, nobody was using it. Floppies are easier from the IT side :)

[@mxcollin95]

Great tour! Pro EDM is a process that I’ve been curious about for a long time. Those machines are amazing to me. Crazy how a tiny wire can accurately machine extremely hard metals.

[@collinrasmussen5630]

Some great ideas in this video, as a fairly new toolmaker I really appreciate this video. Such a great shop. I want Agie charmille machines next! Such well taken care of tools and a lot of love. My mills have 32-40k memory which is my biggest challenge. Thank you for this video and thank you spectre

[@billdaniels5957]

Very nice of them to allow the tour. Thanks you doing a good job keeping us informed !!

[@ClockwerkIndustries]

Awesome tour! Hour felt like 10 minutes lol I've been wanting to learn more about EDM this answered a lot of questions! Cool stuff! Manufacturing is kick-ass we need to bring more back to the US. From a CNC plotter printer cutters, co2 and fiber laser, EDM, CNC milling and lathes, 3d printers. It's all so awesome! Thanks for the tour!

[@daveyb2552]

Thank you so much for your time.

[@chrisframe1722]

I really enjoyed this video. That is a topic I have been curious about but not seen much on. Thank You!

[@qwertyasdfghjkl9604]

There are still many topics (methods, processes, tools, machines, industries, trades/jobs) almost not covered in the internet...

[@peacefulsurfer]

He should be damn proud of the people he has working there, a shop like that as clean and we'll maintained as it is... It's impressive and doesn't happen with people who aren't vested in the company.

[@nathaniellangston5130]

Really loved this shop tour with the older machines and just the guy!

[@carloslemos3678]

Nice to see the guy mention the approximate cost of the machine! 12:39 I watch the videos on those machines and almost always have no idea how much they cost. Great video!

[@chrisblight6069]

Great video and lovely shop too. I work with a much older Wire EDM myself so found this really interesting, although I don't work near this level. The cleanliness of the shop is awesome.

[@billdlv]

Very good tour, I did not know much about EDM. What a clean shop and equipment.

[@richardjones1022]

This is like the shop that I dream about working for in the future. I never got the chance to learn EDM and would love to learn more of that side of high precision machining. Beautiful shop by the way

[@billclark5943]

Forget the shop and machinery. The knowledge and experience that gentlemen has is most impressive.

[@larsbjrdal5258]

Amazing video. Great to have people share so much information.

[@qwertyasdfghjkl9604]

Many industries, trades, tools, processes, are still not covered well in the internet (nor books). Many talented "as$holes" take their knowledge to the grave. They will not share (and not teach youngsters). Like everything was a "top secret" (while it's not - military stuff is an exception of course). Good to see it changes.

[@EaglesNestOne64]

Such a sick walkthrough. Thanks Matt and John

[@darkooo94]

I adore the simplicity of their explanations even tho they talk about complex stuff. Awesome video

[@billclark5943]

I've watched this video twice This brother and sister team is awesome

[@tomwagemans1872]

Nice to see you do a video on this subject. Always wondered how that worked. Complements to you and the shop owners! Greetings from Belgium.

[@AlbosNoggins]

Awesome tour! Thanks for sharing

[@jaylav1125]

Great tour. You guys keep super clean shop. Love it!

[@Amaysing79]

And just think a floppy still doing its thing. Thanks very much for this video.

[@Harrstein]

We have one machine at the shop that only takes DD diskettes, no modern posh HD diskette. Sourcing those has become quite a bitch

[@qwertyasdfghjkl9604]

No problem (at least in PC computers)! You can use HD as DD diskette. Just cover the square hole and force format it to DD.

[@gamemeister27]

@@Harrstein Might be possible to make some modifications to fix that, but you'd need to do a risk analysis and hire the right people to do it. Don't want to break the thing

[@rldoyle5705]

Wow thanks!! for the shop tour

[@thatdutchtoolboy1994]

Wow. It gets better by the minute. A nice lady who is able to operate EDM machines. It doesn´t get any better than this.

[@trackjosh]

ve hole popped a ton of mold cores at my old job, was learning a wire edm as well.

[@MatthewMelson]

The old Japax hole poppers were called "Super Boring Machines"...as a kid, I thought they nailed the name dead on, as I would run manual spreads on blocks for my Dad haha

[@willrogers1090]

Spectacular video! Thank you all for posting this! I learned lots!

[@lm1627]

Am a tool and die maker and this video has answered alot of my questions though am yet to start dealing EDM machines i really loved it and i can't wait to put it into practice. Awesome workshop and the machines are spectacular.

[@MrToolean]

Awesome Tour! I’m in Mason and send out EDM jobs and didn’t even know about these guys.

[@MatthewMelson]

We don't do much advertising, just word of mouth. We have kept all our customers from the beginning of the shop and it has spread from there. Send us an email sometime if you need a quote. I live in West Chester and grew up here, what company are you with in Mason? We do overflow work for K & K, and get some work from HiTek. Just google us and the contact details are on our webpage (don't want to post it for spam reasons)

[@dougaldhendrick3497]

The first info I saw re this technology was an analogy to shorting a screwdriver across a battery terminal, except we control it! Come a long way since those days!

[@wrighty338]

fascinating tour, a very clean shop too!

[@jamesdownes1974]

Absolutely fascinating! I still can’t get my head around the hole tapping with EDM. My brain hurts thinking about it. Great video!

[@MatthewMelson]

Think of taking an undersized screw, putting it in a hole in clay and make a circle motion without turning the screw. The imprint will be a perfect thread, just larger.

[@evbunke2]

@@MatthewMelsonohhhhhhh thank you. I keep thinking about the electrode spinning like a thread mill, but it doesn't. Hard to get my brain out of a milling mindset

[@scarabeetle101]

@@MatthewMelson So when you make that graphite tool, how is the geometry different to that of the finished threaded hole? Can you literally turn it on the lathe but to the smaller diameter, or does the shape of the lathe tool have to be different?

[@MatthewMelson]

@@scarabeetle101 you turn it smaller by the overburn and orbit radius, but still with the correct thread angle (60 deg for common uni threads).

[@scarabeetle101]

@@MatthewMelson That's really cool, thanks! And thanks for letting us see inside your shop!

[@mxcollin95]

I’ll be stoked to see the day somebody starts selling desktop wire EDMs! I’d love to have one to work with.

[@JavierChiappa]

Totally, who cares if it takes hours, you just leave it overnight, and wake up to a beautiful cut gear

[@timogross8191]

Check BAXEDM on KZbin.

[@twobob]

big thank you indeed. that was awesome

[@SlowEarl1]

Awesome tour! Very nice and clean shop.

[@YulehHabibi]

Great tour!

[@DJ-Sellout]

This is remarkably well edited!

[@pixmooo1]

Thank you john, thank you matthew for this great video, from iraq i say to matthew, i really like your amazing workshop, you put your tools in right place, so you can find it easily, not like me :D

[@EmperorDevilhunter]

Nowadays, even ceramics considered not conductive can be machined by EDM, according to EDM machine manufacturers. They just need to have a very small amount of conductivity.

[@Ale_Lab]

Didn't even know what EDM was... amazing!

[@FredMiller]

Technology moves so quickly!

[@qwertyasdfghjkl9604]

It's an old (60-80 years old, soviet-Russia invention) process. Nothing new.

[@jaaron2834]

Awesome tech …! This opens up so many possibilities in machining 🤙😎👍

[@ODGColornChrome]

This was an awesome episode!!

[@tommiddleton3903]

We have a brand new EDM machine arriving today, can't wait!

[@zhupaul4547]

Your machines are very well maintained, which surprised me

[@ITanDiving]

I may say a lot of great things, but wouldn't be enough... by now: FASCINATING!!!

[@Thatdamdroneguy]

Thank you Great video , thank you for showing us that

[@BrilliantDesignOnline]

Matt & Renee and John Thank you for an INCREDIBLY interesting tour. I learned so much about EDM and process! You are educating the masses; I bet someone gets fascinated enough to pursue EDM as a result of this video. How the heck are 0.006" drill electrodes fabricated with through holes down the center? (I see there are carbide versions too)

[@MatthewMelson]

Brass and copper tubes are drawn, the same way medical needles are made. Not sure about how they make them from tungsten carbide, that's a good question. Some moulding process I suspect.

[@BrilliantDesignOnline]

@@MatthewMelson www.holepop.com/tungsten-carbide-edm-electrodes/ shows some but still baffled :-)

[@weldmachine]

Top Shop, and Top People working there. The sort of business you want to deal with.

[@yosmith1]

well, there goes my next hour :) yee haw!

[@jessejarvis3646]

I ran that type of edm at a trade school love it when it worked correctly

[@patpalermo7629]

Autothreading has been around since the mid 80's. Had a sodick with it. Became a standard feature late 90's

[@MatthewMelson]

I ran the old Mitsubishi machines that had the roller on the lower head and two rollers above the wire bin. Pain in the rear to manually thread, and you need long cuts to get any night work done. Threading made a world of difference.

[@ryanhalloran499]

Rarely see any light on this interesting manufacturing process, maybe I'm commenting too soon but I didn't see RAM EDM (Sinker EDM) in the description which is super cool imo. - from a EDM Technician

[@MatthewMelson]

Did a little bit at the end. As you know Conventional EDM is it's own long topic. I also could have gone into a deep dive if offsets, spark generation, high spot removal with skimming.

[@PiGood]

Nice to see a shop with some older Charmilles then even ours. Shame they keep talking about discontinuing support on everything 310/510 and earlier.

[@roadiesgarage3816]

EPA for the win! Good people there at Spectre!

[@x-calibearusallc]

How weird is it that I was thinking about learning something about EDM and without typing a word, this video pops up.

[@donnajones1603]

Wow who of thunk.....from 1973 my favorite band from Ohio...."Blue Ash" & their hit cover of "Anytime at All"

[@roeschdan]

Where in Nebraska were you at? I'm a hobby machinist from Lincoln. Thank you for all your amazing content!

[@MatthewMelson]

This is in Blue Ash, OHIO just north of Cincinnati.

[@roeschdan]

Yes but John mentioned he was just in Nebraska

[@placebomessiah]

What a brilliant family

[@oadamo]

what a great team and shop.

[@SeanPalmer62]

Wow very interesting indeed! I had a rough idea how those machines work before, know a lot more now though, thankyou.

[@thatdutchtoolboy1994]

EDM is fantastic. I like it even more than 5 axis milling.

[@turbo2ltr]

Sooo, I always thought the wire was a loop. It seems that the wire is actually just passed through once then thrown out?

[@MatthewMelson]

Correct. China tried to make a machine that recycles the wire. However the already used wire is brittle and no longer the correct size. There are machines that run Moly wire to cut 3d printed parts off the plates and they reuse the wire but they are not looking for accuracy, just a band saw.

[@thallmeister]

45:50 I'm jealous, I've been using a bridgeport ez trak and this makes it look so janky in comparison. Hopefully they will let me start using the EDM, I've been asking to get into that for a while now. I'm a die maker apprentice currently, but we mainly use the EDM for punch buttons and re-cutting trim steels (D2 and S7 mainly). Awesome shop.

[@TheHamzter]

Fantastic video, EDM doesn't get enough attention! Question, how do you go about zeroing in on a part in the ram EDM? Maybe you have a renishaw hidden in that tool changer, or just a cylindrical electrode to touch off with?

[@EmperorDevilhunter]

You can do both, but is more common the second one. There are also specific "electrodes" that are just the precission ball to probe, altough you can probe with the real electrede.

[@MatthewMelson]

@@EmperorDevilhunter yes, so we dont have the renishaw probe because we typically only do one electrode or a rough and finisher. However with multiple electrodes and cavities you would want a probe for pick-up, and you use a tooling ball on the table to set your electrode offsets. It's pretty easy once you understand what you are trying to achieve.

[@tornydeevil1356]

How are the holes ist the thin wires for edm-drilling created?

[@MatthewMelson]

We can EDM drill down to about 0.006" normally that is good enough. There are ways to make even smaller holes. You can look up a company that makes the machines, Current EDM

[@MatthewMelson]

I understand your question now. The brass tubes are extruded and pulled thru a die that makes them smaller and smaller. Some may be molded.

[@gl4487]

Mr Saunders and Melson, I am curious about what it takes to use wire and electrode edm in small injection mold tooling. What are some good resources for training and machine aquisition?

[@MatthewMelson]

Well you need to know what you're willing to spend first. After that research machines and capabilities. Talk to your local dealers. Many of them offer training if you buy a machine from them. But honestly it just takes time and experience. Ram EDM is difficult to be really good at. Wire is a bit easier as the machines are more constant with electrode wear and sizing.

[@hampfi747]

Awesome tour! A Question i have is what to consider when purchasing a used edm machine. It seems not much has changed so a used edm from the 90s could be an affordable option. What do have to look after buying an old machine and what is the minimum amount of money you have to spend?

[@billmielke7395]

I don't know much about EDM, but what I do know about the older ones is that if they work, they work, if they don't work they are hard or impossible to get parts for, the parts that are available are overseas and prohibitively expensive.

[@ricardo-iw9sq]

I have a charmiles 510 1997 98 and it's great but the boards inside cost s#@t loads one of my power boards just gone and the service guy said its £5048.00 to get a genuine one, the part that's gone is a astec lpq152 power supply it's no longer avaliable so I either buy new or find some one to fix the component or risk putting its replacement lpq 172 but the settings are slightly different this part costs £209.15, but 5k takes the piss big style, most of the boards cost a min of £2500 and that's if they still make them. If I was to buy second hand I would go to a dealer and have them recommision it edm are too sensitive to be moved but edm blows my customers minds when they see jigsaw puzzles, most cnc works on meters per minute ahha edm works on millimetres per minute eg to cut hole in mild steel 100mm sq 50mm thick one cut 2.7mm/min=2.5hours but smooth as glass.

[@billmielke7395]

@@ricardo-iw9sq we had one at school, the battery died, the tech came out, needed a new battery, the operating system needed to be reinstalled, it needed new memory, and he wouldn't guarantee the pumps unless they paid $5,000 for a reconditioning, all told it was going to be over $10,000 for a 20 year old machine. They had a sinker edm, it went down, it needs $7500 to be operable. I know of a couple of shops that have scrap machines sitting on the floor they need $10,000 or more and they can't justify the cost.

[@ricardo-iw9sq]

@@billmielke7395 cnc is great when working but when they have gremlins that's when you look at a ajax or bridgport or Colchester lathe and laugh cause if they stop it's normally the fuse. I would love a hass 750 5 axis but repairs scare me, well I can dream even though I don't have work for one.

[@billmielke7395]

@@ricardo-iw9sq I have run a 750 UMC, neat machine, but that particular machine's gremlin was the probe wouldn't stay calibrated, I think it was too many operators touching it. That place everyone ran everything. There were some real screw ups from folks not knowing how to run or caring about the machines. We had a "lathe man" who I'm pretty sure screwed up offsets on the mills on purpose, and our second shift tender used to screw up parts and then say he was going to fix them the next night. I came in one morning and there was an entire run of mold cavities awaiting welding from the second shift guy, with no explanation.

[@joshmartin4319]

Once we can model turbulence and then provide a feedback control loop, applying a high speed laminar flush for drastic material removal will follow.

[@mattmelson6584]

I was thinking about this the other day when thinking about nozzle design and an old "smarter everyday" video. The feedback would be interesting to develop.

[@shopjay8291]

Great video. I have parts I send out and need to find a good edm company. I'm looking for a "end point edm". Was this covered? Maybe there is a different name they called it. Basically I need to put a keyway in a blind hole and can not broach it obviously. Any feedback would be great. Thanks again for all the fantastic content.

[@gcflower99]

Matt, the son/foreman, explained that they are an "end point edm" shop near the beginning of the tour when first explaining operations to John. Good luck!

[@shopjay8291]

I must have missed that. Thanks for the response.

[@roadiesgarage3816]

A good spot to check out would be tect in Santa fe springs super cool shop also some way old school edms last time I was in there right next to a bunch of automation

[@m4rvinmartian]

Thank you!

[@VId_Kok]

53:10 Sounds a lot like thread milling.

[@trainedtiger]

20:18 Why all the stuff in the window? Not like its going to throw a part out at high speed or anything...

[@MatthewMelson]

On that machine it is probably just for looks and to protect the plexiglass from people leaning on it. However other machines do it because of Radio waves. Europe has regulations on the radio waves that can come off EDM machines, just like the screens in microwaves.

[@floggerSG]

Thats cool as hell. Thanks

[@lukasbitterli]

Interesting! Almost all machines are from Swiss companies. Can the US not build accurate machines themselves?

[@MatthewMelson]

The swiss cornered the EDM market long ago. However Mitsubishi and Makino both make really nice machines now. The biggest thing (price point) with wire machines is the generators and the technology in the control to create better surface finishes and accuracy.

[@lukasbitterli]

@@MatthewMelson But Mitsubishi and Makino are also not from the US.

[@MatthewMelson]

@@lukasbitterli makino makes machines in ohio and michigan

[@doubledarefan]

33:40 Technology Connections collaboration fodder! 34:32 Chro-moly❓

[@250smacks]

Whats the price tag for a wire cnc edm machine?

[@Animaniac-vd5st]

That punch-card machine reminded me of a relative who works maintenance for a factory. Just for one machine. He explained to me that he could do it all in half the time with a modern machine (that doesn't use Cobol). But the machine costs somewhere around 10 million euros and would take a few months to install it. The company would rather emply a second guy like him before even considering replacing that machine.

[@fukcg00gle95]

.012" electrode with a coolant hole in the middle?! Mind = Blown

[@PplsChampion]

my favorite edm tool is the skrillex saw

[@MatthewMelson]

I see what you did there, nice 👌

[@richie50]

Wow I work right down the street from this place

[@MatthewMelson]

Feintool USA? Forward Tech? Where are you at? Only a couple businesses literally down the street.

[@johnknox5692]

that was a great video,most interesting

[@kevinwillis6707]

what id like to see is the machine that produces the electrodes with a hole in a 6000th wire.

[@trumanhw]

I'd love to see what some of the pricier parts cost ...

[@MatthewMelson]

The stuff we see is pretty impressive. Lately the 3D printed parts we wire cut off the bases are insane.

[@TabletopMachineShop]

He's going to buy a wire EDM. You can hear it in his voice. Its the new surface grinder!

[@whatsonh5737]

Ok so all this older machines have to break from time to time. WHo is reparing them ? because here in Europe(Poland to be precise) if a charmilles service hears about machine from before 2000 they simply say "we don't do that anymore".

[@MatthewMelson]

Got to get creative, even newer machines just to save money. Try finding a good electrical engineer that worked on boards and have them fixed. Ball screws can be fixed and WEDM's dont wear out like a mill.

[@Ujeb08]

great video! I would have liked to see an animation on how the ram EDM moves the electrode or the work to make the threads.

[@MatthewMelson]

It just orbits out in a circle for threads. So it's just a circle motion.

[@qwertyasdfghjkl9604]

Ujeb08 - Yes, a circle ("orbit"). You can do almost any size thread with that one particular pitch. It's actually easier than for example CNC thread milling (this is harder to visualize).

[@RookieLock]

Jon's next machine!

[@jesusisalive3227]

I want to work here!

[@timvanmonero2720]

if i give you a 1" thick silver block and i need a shape cutout (like a teddybear). the block is 10x10" - how much would that roughly cost? i can provide CNC files. very curious. would give some damast steel or silver 😂

[@googleuser859]

The forman guy says heighth and acrost... Crazy. Great tour as usual.

[@MatthewMelson]

You made my girlfriend happy with this comment, she laughs when I say "fustrated" and leave out the R, oh well. Atleast my accent isnt too thick and people still understand me.

[@TommiHonkonen]

allright, i am never going to buy a edm. i will only buy like 10 meter travel machines. i dont like small parts too much.