What is FOC? (Field Oriented Control) And why you should use it! || BLDC Motor

[@greatscottlab]

Do you like the small animations in the video or do you prefer my hand drawn style? Let me know!

[@AnOrangeECat]

I love some animations!

[@omhekde]

Animations are better

[@BharatMohanty]

Hand drawn style is your USP so I prefer it.

[@alinbostan4569]

The animations are cooler, isn't it ?

[@yxcvbnmmnbvcxy544]

Hand drawing

[@emadeloc]

Do you know who should sponsor your videos? A markers company.

[@RomanoPRODUCTION]

Yes so true, some pens that allow clean stabilo-boss flashy over lighting

[@superdogmeatmeat]

hehe

[@AtulVinayakS]

You wasted an opportunity to title the video "What the FOC!"

[@greatscottlab]

I honestly never thought of that. Dammit!

[@AbhishekThakur-wl1pl]

Take a while to get it 😂😂

[@DougFalcon]

"This waveform is very jagged and sharp and it could attack at any moment. So we must deal with it."

[@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489]

i would say that's a really stupid title, for any reason other than showing legitimate problems with it.

[@AtulVinayakS]

@@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489 why don't you go FOC yourself? 😂

[@R3MIXMODZ]

0:37 field is pronouced (feeld) like the word feel but with a d at the end

[@greatscottlab]

Good to know

[@userPrehistoricman]

I'm disappointed that this thread wasn't a shitstorm like the one about 'ceramic'.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

I was about to make the same comment. Since English isn't his native language I was trying to think of a way to be tactful about telling him how to pronounce field.

[@superdau]

He knows that, because he pronounces it correctly later in the video. But why do you add an "s" to the end of half the words that should and with d/t? "saids", "get rids", "work outs", "grounds", "a fields", "a FETs" (and no, it's not a plural s). That can be quite confusing.

[@R3MIXMODZ]

English, in general, is hard. But the only way to get better is by practicing and correcting your mistakes.

[@SalimsWorkshop]

I watched this video when I started working on my first FOC. now I designed and implemented a FOC on a Bldc from scratch. The results can be seen in my videos. Thank you, your video helped me so much!

[@markoantesic4362]

This was more a presentation on SVM - space vector modulation- then on FOC. Strictly speaking FOC is just what you skipped over at 6:40. Also while dedicated FOC chips seem nice, modern microcontrolers are more then capable running the whole thing in software. E.G. I have used and seen Texas instruments piccolo/delfino chips run multiple motors in FOC with no problem. I have seen 1 delfino uP run a "12 phase" motor (like if you had 4 motors on the same shaft, each runing its own foc) with no problems.

[@EmyrDerfel]

You wouldn't actually want to sync the phases because inaccuracies in the motor mounts and alignment changes under load would result in a your sync'd phase transitions being inappropriate for one of the motors.

[@gangireddynagarjunareddy5299]

can i have your email id?

[@backdoornutzer4461]

I like the animation style for moving things because it adds more movement to the video. Especially when working with motors.

[@chopper3lw]

Of all the FOC explainers on here , yours is by far the most enlightening. THANKS!

[@kickinbackinOC]

That video was written right spot-on to my level of understanding. For me, it was perfect! I really liked the explanation of when is the best time to energize a stator coil, for a given angle of the rotor. And further it was explained that since current lags voltage in an inductor, the timing of when to energize the stator coil has to be adjusted as well. Really excellent stuff! 👍

[@zeninlasvegas]

The crux was explained neatly

[@standbyme6395]

I'm not much on idols but you are well on your way. Thank you for dedicating so much time to learning us a few things.

[@felixman9691]

I come back to this video at least once or twice a year. Thanks for making this.

[@John-lc9vl]

Love how you explained everything I can actually understand how this works and what not to do, animations are definitely a plus thanks

[@pavlosvasileiou2994]

Great Video as always, but I’d like to point out one thing only. This flux current (direct current or Id) isn’t just representing Power Losses. It really depends on the application and it comes down to the algorithm which you use to implement FOC such as MTPA (Maximum Torque Per Ampere), Constant torque etc. Also, this direct current will really help you achieve more RPM for the same Power in the exchange of some Torque. This phenomenon is called MFW (Magnetic Field Weakening). Anyways, great channel, keep it up man! You’re a great motivation for a lot of young Engineers!

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for the information.

[@ericcartmann]

Direct Current is for building a field inside of an induction machine. Kinda like the shunt coil in shunt DC motors. BLDC motors/PMSM have a permanent magnet building a field. Thus direct current is all loss, the direct current has no rotor field windings to couple with. You set Direct current to zero in the park/clarke controller BLDC/PMSM.

[@th3d3wd3r]

Field weakening gets me an extra 10-15mph or so out of my ebike. Which takes it up to 65mph top speed at 100v with a torque wound motor.

[@ericcartmann]

Thats an induction machine right? So you mean a "Wound Rotor" motor. That means there's no permanent magnet, and the magnetic field is generated with the direct current coupling to the rotor windings. The stronger the magnetic field, the more torque but less speed. The weaker the magnetic field the faster the speed but less torque. FOC lets you control the amount of direct current so that after you have started (accelerating your vehicle takes the most amount of torque, at a constant speed the only torque you need is to counter friction and air resistance) you can lower the direct current to get more speed.

[@sorin.n]

You guys really know your FOCs and BLDCs...

[@mattquick5045]

6:45 ah yes, the time honored tradition of highlighting everything in a diagram. ;P

[@tomwin6975]

Sending your company' stuff to GreatScott is best way of marketing, I guess (but only if your product is seriously good)

[@gudenau]

Your sponsored videos can really stand by themselves, and that's pretty good.

[@aaronwest2402]

I'm so deeply interested in these motors for some reason. I'm a diesel engine mechanic with mere basic understanding of electricity and barely that much when it comes to electronics. Your channel has been very helpful sir, I thank you for that. I am on this epic journey of building my own driver for this rather large bldc motor I have. Something that would probably be relatively simple for you. Nevertheless, I'm committed. That ic seems incredulous. The frequency of switching is beyond comprehension. Will definitely be snooping around their website today. Great video 👍

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback. I hope you will be successful in creating your driver.

[@aaronwest2402]

@@greatscottlab hey man, have you heard of these intelligent power modules?!? Most amazing thing ever. I know this is all about DIY, but most of the time DIY is to save money. Anyways. Theyre pretty amazing devices. 300amp rating inverter to-220 ics. Im going to get a couple from Alibaba.

[@spicymemeboi2646]

so the quadcopter project is still going? :)

[@greatscottlab]

It's a secret!

[@aksquad5522]

@@greatscottlab Maybe a little hint ?😂

[@blackturbine]

@@greatscottlab are you making a manned quadcopter that will put you in power similar to government position?

[@ShahZahid]

@@greatscottlab is it a hexacopter

[@ShahZahid]

And post a video about it

[@Roberto-dd1te]

I've never seen a donkey in a datasheet before

[@Flo-er]

It's a donkeybridge 🐎🌉

[@Ramog1000]

soo is it a donkysheet?

[@abdulazeez.98]

😂😂

[@northshorepx]

I never really was able to picture the theory here before! Your videos really help the mathematics (of the theory) come to life. Thanks.

[@greatscottlab]

Glad you like it :-)

[@RandomHacks]

It makes me nervous when you use a screwdriver as a pointer for your oscilloscope 😅

[@serwisrtvlaptopelektronik5166]

as I see it, I have a small heart attack. :)

[@maskedredstonerproz]

what else can he use tho??

[@adrienouilou2999]

It makes me nervous when he highlights three times his drawings and you see the ink bleeding and mixing

[@ShomiTheGreat]

Balance out the shaft joint by placing another screw at the opposite side of the one currently placed. It'll increase the overall rotational inertia- but it'll also provide a constant, non-fluctuating load- thus giving better performances. A lot of energy is spent on unwanted effects such as motor's vibration which you even have to fight with your own hand (a.k.a. improvised vibration damping element)

[@richardbloemenkamp8532]

ESC technology is really a very interesting topic. I hope you keep on digging deeper and eventually are able to come up with a great design for us all to make ourselves, based on for example this chip plus standard MOSFET's, some microcontroler and a homemade Hall-sensor-based axis-positon controller. Efficiency and accuracy may be a bit lower but controlling reasonably high-current BLDC's would be nice. Would that make sense or should we just buy O-drive or VESC's for about $100 because it is too complex and because the standard components added up are equally expensive.

[@DannyBokma]

Aweseome IC but "The TMC4671 does not support sensorless FOC" is a bit of a bummer.

[@00lol00sh]

Great animation video, but I think you should have mentioned the underlying d-q transformation behind the FOC, which lets the controller interpret sinusoidal signals as constant quantities, thus the reference system can be precisely oriented towards the rotor magnetic flux linkage.

[@LanceThumping]

Hopefully this will lead to the eBike market having the high voltage high amp niche they require filled. It's hard to find a controller with FOC that can do the high power levels that eBikes usually run at.

[@ericvauwee4923]

Unitech or Sevcon make pretty big ESCs with FOC

[@NoorquackerInd]

The Trinamics power stage kit that he showed in the video was capable at 70V, 10A. That should get you a nice 700W, which is close to the legal limit in the cities I'm in

[@sethperkins1938]

The 4671 can also drive other gate drivers that can drive igbt or high power MOSFETs for high power FOC

[@energystoragedevelopers7656]

Omg 😮 I was trying to find a video I watched about latest Bldc driver controllers but can’t seem to find it and thought I must have dreamt it ! But lucky I find your video that proves better driver tech is real . I wish I could find other video though as it explained certain things that I want to research further and I think you may like it . I just bought aeg fusion drill and it has latest Bldc motor controller which nearly doubles it torque from 70 nm to 140nm . I also uses Panasonic 2070 cells instead of 18650 . Very powerful drill .

[@anthonyvolkman2338]

Wow!!!! Excellent video here!!! Wow! Such detail and attention was made here. I like the animations due to the fact that everything can be seen in movement or at least propagation. Keep up the amazing and ever improving job!

[@ialeg3710]

I'm happy you didn't just solve the issue with an easily programmable IC with Arduino like you usually do and instead went more in depth.

[@cashel1111]

nope, i need to comment twice :P these animations are gorgeous! so much information displayed

[@zolatanaffa87]

hello, excellent presentation of the product: I would say that this is a valid solution: rewriting what you are explaining it increases the strength of penetration of the message: I am Italian, I do not know very well English (German even less) and I struggle to follow you (fortunately there is still and the speed at 0.75) but your diction is clear and not too fast so understandable for me: Great, Scott! another style of presentation that I consider very effective is that of DroneBot Workshop: it is very nice and understandable even if I think it is much more complicated to realize than your writing in real time:

[@deepakjoshi6242]

I like your project videos more.. And waiting for one...☺

[@l3d-3dmaker58]

YAY Trinamic!! they are some cool guys with some cool stuff my man, and their drivers are amazing

[@antoniovieira1423]

nice animations makes the video more easier to understand keep it up Mr Scott!

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback

[@antoniovieira1423]

you're welcome!

[@akshaydasm.k9388]

Here in my company, we use this tmc ic. For stepper motors we use tmc5160. It's really great.

[@mekanism8364]

What size load is this powering in your company?

[@acemasterx2514]

This reminds me microstepping for stepper motors. Good video!

[@Digital-Dan]

I wish people would expand their abbreviations (e.g., BLDC) at the beginnings of their videos so that those unfamiliar with the terms but capable of grasping the topics could get an easier start. I could and did Google the term, but shouldn't have had to.

[@sinhusoidal]

i had my project on collage about foc, the interesting part about Foc is, you need to model your controller with stator rotor impefances, it impacts speed and position control massively. I had a detailed project and matlab models about it on collage, i can share anyone who is interested

[@gangireddynagarjunareddy5299]

Hi i need the matlab models please send it to [e-mail] or please share your email id here i wil contact you

[@appu95247]

I am working on a similar project. It would be really helpful for me. If possible please send the matlab files and related documents to [e-mail]. Thank you

[@amansinha4632]

I am interested, can you please share it ti [e-mail]

[@mdaraphiri6767]

do you still have your foc project. I would love to take to look at it. Doing my university project about same foc

[@AboubakrA]

starting the video without "this video is sponsored by JLCPCB" bit in the beginning ... I can die peacefully now

[@avejst]

Wow, nice job trinamic! Thanks for sharing👍😀

[@AnubhabKundu]

smoother field movement in space with time is the major plus point of FOC. FOC can simplify the control strategy of a 3 phase AC induction motor or a PMSM to look like that for a DC shunt motor where torque is a function of current drawn and the speed a function of voltage applied to it.

[@AndreyVarlamov]

Trinamic is an awesome solution.

[@burakismailisik]

What is your soldering iron (3:45) ?

[@danthemancasey]

Awesome video as always! Thank you, keep up the good work!

[@splanksplank7973]

Ich musste das für die Matura lernen, habs aber bis jetzt nie verstanden. Danke!

[@rapolass2585]

is a brushless 3 phase motor more powerful than a brushed dc motor of the same size? what is the average efficiency of brushed and brushless motors?

[@emiliomota2459]

Way more powerfull

[@th3d3wd3r]

and zero maintenance. No replacing worn brushes 8)

[@nickwallette6201]

My understanding is brushed motors have more torque and are the easiest to drive, but BLDC is better in almost every other way.

[@Rocan0]

@@nickwallette6201 more starting torque, but efficiency is way lower than bldc. Bldc can reach more than 80% of efficiency whereas brushed have difficulties getting over 50%. And the speed control can be very precise with bldc.

[@juhaheikkila]

This Trinamic IC isn't very plug n play system. Tons of registers to set before you make any sense of it. It lacks auto recognition of the motor, so all parameters needs to be put by hand. Texas and ST are making real plug n play chips since they have implemented real time auto tune feature for all critical parameters from the motor.

[@ra1-euleeule858]

@GreatScott! like your video a lot ........think you have load of experience......I replaced the the molten down 1kw brushed my1020 Motor with a 80100 outrunner (sensorless :C) in my forca evoking scooter. I am almost sure that it is not worth to try running it with my 14S120Amp RC motorcontroller.......so i wait for a VESC4.2 i decided ......U think this will propperly accelerate ?

[@power-max]

Is there an advantage to using an ASIC over a powerful MCU for low to medium speeds? I would guess looptime would dictate how frequently the B field updates in relation to the electrical angle of the rotor

[@groundzero_-lm4md]

Well there is reliability, An ASIC is less likely to go wrong in general. However the high R&D and the low cost of microcontrollers has lead to software solutions being used 90% of the time. The looptime is mostly irrelevant, even quadcopters with motors that spin at over 40,000RPM use microcontrollers.

[@malred1195]

Can't wait till you get a million sub

[@power-max]

Can you implement an FOC algorithm on your DIY ESC? That's kinda what I was hoping for in this video.

[@RingingResonance]

FOC takes quite a bit of horse power to run. You need a pretty fast micro preferably with floating point math capabilities implemented through hardware such as a math co-processor or a CPU that supports floating point instructions. You could also do it with fixed point fractionals, but it wouldn't be as straight forward as floating point.

[@KerbalLauncher]

@@RingingResonance You can run a fixed point sensored implementation on one of those STM32 bluepill boards, but that's stupid. Better to get a genuine STM32 nucleo board or Texas Instruments C28x LaunchPad than to waste time with potentially defective bluepills from China. Something like sensored FOC is actually rather easy to implement in floating point, feed currents through the transforms one way, PI controller, then feed the voltages through the transforms the other way. Sensorless isn't that much harder to implement if you're ok with startup cogging.

[@nosafetyswitch9378]

had to use some CLARK-PARK (and inverse) transforms very recently in the controller of an inverter so when I saw the datasheet I skipped a bit! Amazing times...

[@TheBdd4]

Atul Vinayak 4 months ago said: You wasted an opportunity to title the video "What the FOC!" I say you took the opportunity to be clean, GOOD! I like the fact that your speech is clean, so many of us can watch and learn without getting morally debased.

[@lakloplak]

So is this different that microstepping for a stepper motor? That's really silent but loses holding torque... I am building a 3D printer that will also do milling and thus needs torque.

[@kyyisme]

Can I get the model board name? Do you do the video for back zero-crossing position emf for the bldc using this foc board?

[@chanterheld]

I was actually doing research on that exact IC and cursing the fact that the DEV board is so crazy expensive when I got the notification.

[@En1Gm4A]

How big ist the efficiency Gain by useing FOC ?

[@Hasitier]

Eselsbrücke Adapter. You made my day.

[@kotindustrie5584]

Can you recommend a soldering station?

[@ThomasHaberkorn]

really illustrative animations you did this time, great!! however, on 5:14, shouldn't "Step 7" result in a vector of length 0 (i.e. a point at the origin)? In Step 7, (and step 0), no field in created (I think).

[@MedSou]

Nicely explained ,Thank you 👍👍👍👍

[@TheMechanicGamerVids]

Your Channel is Awesome!

[@epineh]

That is a very nice chip, though I think going a diy PCB would be interesting, the QFN76 package is 11.5mm by 6.5mm and 76 pins!!! Not for the faint hearted. I believe the TMC4671 breakout board is 4 layer, adding more cost and complexiy to any hopes of DIY, maybe I'm too old haha.

[@johnnewsom263]

Hay greatscott I'm new to the soldering world and wanted to know about mosfets what are they? How are they used and are they anygood?

[@satvinderkaur160]

Gentlemen ! What is Ur qualifications I'm means Ur engineering dencent man , I'm also engineering student electronics and communication engineering and I always watch all whole video and ur my ideal I want to become a electronics and communication engineering like u Ur dencent in all phases man love from India 😍😘

[@heyikidebir]

FOC may not be the most efficient way, depending on the application. Basically, FOC creates sinusoidal voltages by chopping the three phase simultaneously while old school trapezoidal control only chops two of the phases while leaving the third one idle at any instant in time. This means 2/3 less switching losses on the inverter. Yes FOC is a super efficient way of controlling the motor torque with very little torque ripple but as I said it may not be the most efficient control method when you consider the electronic losses depending on the application ratings. Also, as Pablo Vasileiou mentioned, d axis current is not your enemy. Any washing machine that has a PMSM/BLDC direct-drive motor will utilize negative d axis current in order to weaken the field generated by the magnets and let the machine go up to at least three times the nominal speed in the spin-dry mode. Sick demo board though, just works out of the package.

[@chittlingwhittles1198]

Can I expect the same efficiency in both directions of a Sensorless motor without having to reset or reprogram a basic rc esc? Simply put, can I expect the same efficiency by simply switching 2 of the 3 motor wires? Thanks

[@dimitarnikolov3527]

Does PWM signal increase the power loss of the MOSFETs?

[@Tomvandorland]

I didn't understand shit of it. But it's entertaining

[@TheMakersWorkshop]

Hello Scott! "Field" has a traditional English pronunciation of "FEE-eh-ld" similar to wieder

[@svvelanautica2374]

How about the A89301 sensorless FOC controller from Allegro? I like to see a DIY project of BLDC motor controll. With that ic it might be simple enough...

[@thedankoona_5854]

love the animations, they are very practical, but dont use them too much; your nicely handdrawn style is your 'thing'.

[@PacoOtaktay]

I wonder if this could have been applied to floppy drive stepper motors to make the drives a bit more quiet????

[@bigendertroll]

hey scott, kannst du mal bitte erklären wie man ein hoverboard motor and den controller hier anschließt oder halt was mit dem hoverboard motor machst oder mit dem controler eine folge diy or buy machen?

[@TRXSlashPWR]

6. Semester Elektrische Maschinen II - da kommen Erinnerungen hoch :D

[@sshrek1996]

Hello, can you please put in a link of the data sheet as it explains the FOC algorithm as well?

[@sarbajitdas7659]

Superb I learnt a lot of things

[@felipeperez7802]

I like the new attempt at the animations done my software. Nevertheless, I usually prefer the hand drawn style. I suggest that a good mix of the two (animations for more complex drawings, and hand drawn sketches for simpler illustrations, for example) Edit: Keep up the good work! Love your videos.

[@KarlssonF]

bitte sprich es nicht "feild" aus sondern wie "viel" mit nem "d"

[@sebastianelytron8450]

Don't even understand German but I agree with this. "field" LMAO what an idiot😂

[@julianberger234]

@@sebastianelytron8450 wtf, why are you insulting him? Shame on you.

[@maskedredstonerproz]

@@sebastianelytron8450 SHAME , SHAME , SHAME ON YOU!!

[@BressanaDavide]

Can you explain how implement the FOC technique in closed loop bipolar stepper motors?

[@osmanpasha_diy]

How does zero-crossing detection on floating wire factor in here (if there is no floating wire)? Is it even needed here? How do you limit current and do sensorless driving if there are no floating wires?

[@estebansanches4236]

Hi Scott can you make a video talking about galvo servos it would be awesome

[@boblewis5558]

As your English is generally so good (Viel besser als mein Deutsch!) I feel bad for this: field is pronounced "feeled" oder wie"vield" auf Deutsch. Your pronunciation means something else ... Filed (to file something like papers in a file or to file metal). I hope that helps since both English & non native English speakers I know are watching your brilliant videos and it may help avoid confusion. Ganz mehr Videos bitte sehr! 😁😁 Tschüß!

[@syedkazemi4453]

Remove the 3d printed parts in order to reduce weight of the quadcopter to get longer flight time

[@jamest.5001]

Would one of these boards be a start of a good ebike controller?

[@Tactical-Black]

What can I do to get into electronics the right way beginning to end where to start I'm trying to teach myself son(6) and nephew (16), im an electrician but want to further my skills also

[@jhsevs]

Hi, Scott! What is field weakening? Is it related to FOC? (Maybe a video idea?)

[@danilolattaro]

Field Weakening is the technique of using additional current on precise locations of the stator (in respect to the rotor location) in order to minimize the rotor magnetic field and thus the back-EMF voltage. With a lower back-EMF it is possible to achieve higher rotor speeds because your source (i.e. battery) now has a higher voltage than the stator and so current can flow to the motor. When your back-EMF voltage matches your battery voltage (maximum speed) current can no longer be pushed to the motor, hence speed can't increase even more.

[@jhsevs]

@@danilolattaro that is a very good explanation, thank you! Makes total sense now.

[@akhilnandan5087]

Actually this video is pretty useful, but it is about SVM in place of FOC, well one is control strategy and other is a modulation strategy. In BLDC you could use SVM to advance the voltage phasor angle to match with the impedence and back emf, where as in IM one could orient and decouple the flux and torque producing current commands to be issued to the SVM modulator.

[@GeorgeGraves]

Hmmm. It sure seems like this is like a stepper driver, but with a feedback loop? Am I close in thinking that?

[@brice9613]

This looks like a useful ic. Would it be possible to attach a mosfet bank powerful enough to drive a 4 Kw BLDC to this board ? would it be a good replacement for a VESC 4 or VESC 6 in an Ebike setup ?

[@greatscottlab]

Good question. You will have to do some testing for that.

[@tiagotiagot]

Is there something like this for quadcopter motors?

[@sanderveenman599]

What motor donyou use in this vid? Looks liike a good candidate for my next project

[@Jerklolschannel]

can you do a whole video on the O-Drive? Minaly focusing on its precision and Advantages over a Normal Stepper-Motor

[@greatscottlab]

Sorry but I am not interested in making such a video.

[@ryanmckenna2047]

Is field of control neccessary/beneficial for stepper motors?

[@herrjonna2007]

The sources are no longer available, do you know where I could get the datasheet?

[@analoghardwaretops3976]

So I can understand that F.O.C. is like what Active P.F. correction is to utility supply except that here there are THREE continuously varying parameters to control...& track.. 1) desired motor speed / velocity & it's flux field..& motor electrical frequency... 2) current/ torque/( m.t.a.) max. torque per amp.... 3) so some what a current waveshape profile that's demanded by flux field & frequency.. Am I correct??

[@Ohem1]

What literature did you read in order to perform these complex projects? An education itself sure would help, but assume one would like to learn at home - what are the recommendations?

[@moek]

Is this what DJI is going to get more efficient and quieter motors in their new drones?

[@greatscottlab]

Possible

[@bensimonpouf]

Humpf, it's pretty nice ! But 100+.- for the IC only :( it's definitely not targeting hobbyists !

[@rodolforeis5948]

Hello, has a hobby I would like to fully understand the foc control and the PSMS motor. I would like to have a working kit so that I can collaborate the theory with the application. Could you please recommend me a kit? This you present, seems that we can use the software but we do not get to see the internal code, if that is the case to me it is a no go.