WHAT IS HAPPENING TO RET?! Is It Still Good? - Ret Paladin PvP/ PvE - WoW The War Within 11.0.5

[@Retrimania]

You read 'Final Verdict' and you imagine a bonecrushing blow from a Highlord, yet it hits more like a ' Friend's advice' than a Final Verdict. It takes globals and certain rotation to set it up, it consumes 3 Hpower but the damage is simply not there. Very kind of you to pinpoint all our current problems. At least we are bug-free atm...Thank you once more for the great content ❤

[@Eliteninja007]

Yup. DK Deathcoil has the same issue even with the proc….i main ret and i miss SL heavy hits tbh

[@LvladenPvP]

I think one thing I didn’t mention they could do would be to slow down the rate we get holy power and massively buff the holy power spenders. Similar to how things were in cata.

[@Eliteninja007]

@ yes!! And more flexibility on the ret tree would be also nice tbh. Right now you can swap like only 2 talents and they doesnt change much honestly

[@timothycalkins6105]

@@Retrimania not when 100 are spammed in a 3 min game. No thanks

[@thecrock4889]

I don't think the wow dev team even knows what abilities are nerfed in pvp. It is not a priority for them.

[@EthCepher]

💯

[@EthCepher]

They care a wee bit about arena but not much beyond that sadly.

[@deathboundtv]

I am not having fun on ret man...i still play it ofc

[@rootzeroday]

I am still having fun playing ret, I switched from a hunter main to a pally main. If you time it you can hit some big damage, but you are right there are a lot of changes that have happened that make it feel like hitting with a wet noodle.

[@NonpositiveTM]

I was thinking the same thing - take this periodic and sometimes random damage from things like Empyrean Hammers, reduce or remove it, and put it into more single target damage. And... I wish I could have casted consecration back, but off the global cooldown, and with optional utility or augmentation for it. Which reminds me, take aura casting off the GCD too. Also, I actually like Steed of Liberty and Divine Spurs, I feel like I have much more movement. Oh well.

[@Falxel]

I think that when they added LOH to pvp, we lost the usual self-healing with FOL and gained mana for WOG. I understand that some people like LOH, especially it helps in 3v3, but this change led to the simplification of Ret, which made it similar in style to a warrior and led to its weakening. Alternatively, in talents, they could have given us a choice of LOH, or good old fashioned self-healing with no restrictions, as it was before DF.

[@SuperAp0calypse]

I'm usually the top on damage in solo shuffle and I have roughly the same gear as you. Admittedly I dont play against the same level of opponents, so that will definitely factor in, but I dont think our damage is that low. I do agree with everything else you said though, and Avenging Wrath/Crusade should probably be the PvP options instead of the passive damage of Radiant Glory.

[@Miridafeo]

They might as well just say "all Ret abilities are nerfed in pvp"

[@ottomanempire3574]

Ret is fine no complaints

[@bennett420316]

I quit back when myvRet Pally had full Nax gear. Once that I saw 3yr playtime I had to. I still love those who make it viable

[@Wakener00]

I really can't remember the last time someone said/felt that the team you're going against loses at the second Crusade/AW

[@bizarre974]

which addon shows and immediately hides the skill cooldown directly on the character? I saw your vid about addons i cant find

[@steve-ok2090]

I’m remember when templars verdict came out in shadowlands, it was so beefy and enjoyable to play. It’s a shell of itself now. Same with RSK and we monks. It’s pad damage. Not fun. I’m just spamming TVs to get to my next hammer of light as fast as I can. I don’t want to be broken either, but I want to feel like my rotation is doing something.

[@janvyskocil9700]

Broo i must thank you alot i was 2004 cr and just went copy paste your build and i literary 4 shuffles went 4-5 wins and went 2.2

[@alexander.stein.]

where is his build?

[@IkelosEU]

Ret for now is fine. After the patch it is workable. What i wanted to see is more selfless healer buffs like in the old days

[@arishiasol]

Maybe im shortsighted and missing something but I honestly don't get why they just don't simply make an overall percentage based buff or nerf to whole specs instead of individually doing it with every ability. That would leave talent interactions intact. One of the reasons I stopped playing BM hunter was because it got nerfs in PvP in Legion that weren't lifted until Shadowlands/Dragonflight I think, really got tired of it because it was clear devs even forgot they put some blanket nerfs and forget to tune them.

[@henriquemartins6135]

yeah empirian hammers def feel very off. One of the main reasons I enjoy chasing after healers so much is because most of the time they are far enough away from their dps that I can actually feel the added damage throughput. I think apart from Hammer of Light, holy power spenders feel very very weak. Honestly i'd prefer if it was actually harder to build up holy power but having it make more of an impact, both on final veredict and word of glory.

[@LvladenPvP]

I agree, Cata style!

[@angelospata4068]

Hey man , whats Better between dark iron dwarf and Human as race for ret ?

[@beastdeusvult4793]

atm dark iron dwarf

[@Trigger24k]

On top of shifting damage from Empyrean Hammers back to Final Verdict I also would add: Divine Protection: is no longer reduced by 50% in PVP. - 10% damage reduction on a 1 min CD is a joke lets be real here. Sanctified Plates: is no longer reduced by 50% in PVP. - Retribution is the lowest HP plate spec and one of the lowest HP specs across the board mainly due to this nerf alone. It dont feel good being sitting in a lobby with guys with mail/leather/cloth class all having more HP than us. It dont fit the class fantasy at all Avenging Wrath/Crusade: is no longer reduced by 50% in PVP. - This is long overdue. Retribution paladin is known for its strong burst windows and right now they strike no fear onto the opponent at all. And considering most people play Radiant Glory making wings last only 8-9 secs now days its ridiculous its not back to full power yet Divine Wrath: increase duration of Avenging Wrath by 4 secs (24 sec total -1min cd / Crusade by 6 secs (33 sec total - 2min cd). Now works with Radiant Glory at 50% effectiveness (+2sec avenging wrath / +3sec crusade). - this is a absolute must as this talent better off removed then left as it is it will open for better plays with radiant glory too as a lot of times time runs out if you get caught in 1 cc and cant even get to use any damage at all. Blessing of Spellwarding: has been moved to Paladin talent tree as a choice talent with Blessing of Protection. - This is needed as it is impossible to pick up meaningful pvp talents when playing casters (rets weakness) making you have to drop damage/utility just to replace your BoP with Spellwarding when it could simply be a choice talent between them since you never run both. Can make it ret only if you dont want other specs having access to it. Alternatively remove it entirely and give some more passive damage reductions cos we drop from 100% to 0 in 3 seconds vs double caster. Improved Blessing of Protection: Reduces cooldown of BoP/BoS by 1.5 min (was 1 min). - the current talent is far too weak to pick up. Long cds are just not healthy game design if you need to reduce duration of BoP down to 8 secs but lower cds are always better Divine Spurs: Divine Steed CD reduced by 15 secs and duration by 3 secs. - This talent is an insult in its current state. It literally does nothing but make your steed weaker than without it. Steed of Liberty: Divine Steed also grants Blessing of Freedom for 8 secs (was 3). -Nobody will ever pick this unless it becomes full duration freedom. Even with the 8 sec freedom most people would prefer using freedom manually and separately in most situations. Unbowned freedom with this talent currently gives you 3 sec freedom and nearby ally 8 secs lol cmon now thats just silly Lead the Charge: Divine Steed reduces cooldown of 4 nearby allies by 50%. (was 3 secs) This would make strategic use of the steed allowing you to use if after your ally uses a movement ability such as a warriors charge of mages blink giving them a longer reduction and using it badly such as when their cd is almost ready will result in less reduction. This is good game design and will open up more options for ret to play with as right now only like 2 comps are viable. Stoicism: Stun durations reduced by 30% (no longer reduced in pvp combat) - honestly cant understand why add this and then reduce it in pvp combat when only time anyone would use it is pvp. Either make it a flat 30% reduction to stuns or make it that either divine steed or hand of freedom used on self while stunned removes stuns like it used to be in WotLK Holy Reprieve: Forbearance duration reduced by 15 secs (was 10) - nobody picks this up as its not strong enough. Either buff it or remove the talent entirely and give the 10 sec reduction by default Light’s Countenance: Cooldown of Repentance reduced by 15 sec and Blinding light reduced by 30 secs (was 15 for both). talent is only worth picking up if you play repentance atm. This will make it more appealing for Blinding Light users too Blessed Calling: Allies effected by your blessings have 30% increased movement speed (was 15%). Nobody plays this as its too weak. Maybe this would make it more attractive but maybe needs to be reworked to a different talent entirely. Divine Auxiliary: Final Reckoning and Execution Sentence now grant 5 Holy Power (was 3). - was a useless talent nobody picked up. with this its more appealing Let me know what you guys think?

[@beastdeusvult4793]

bro respect on how much time u spent to reserch and write all this and yes u are totally right. im 2,7k cr in blitz and only 2,2k in solo q cause i get lobbys with all casters (mostly dragon with something else) and u just sit there and wait for ur "window" just so run behind pillar again while other plates (like war and dk) can actually make pressure on casters.

[@koralstrasz]

This is more like a kid's wet dream wishlist to be OP asf lmao 😂 straight up turbo buffing everything All these giga buffs need to have downsides somewhere you can't just buff every utility defensive and offensive cd and not have any drawbacks ANYWHERE hahaha ONLY 2-3 of these can go live together not every single one lool. Tho some of them are good changes like the utility and defensive ones

[@Trigger24k]

@koralstrasz not really. Aside from the undone pvp nerfs to avenging wrath and divine protection rest are all unused talents

[@eric-chan5118]

I love ret, but something about full passive paladin being the optimal way to play in pve and pvp doesnt right with me. Id like alittle more complexity in the rotation and playstyle

[@TheAnsz456]

What do you think abt taking herald against heavy pet classes?

[@LvladenPvP]

I do but it still suffers from same problem where your proc dawnlights from wings/ radiant go on pets rather than players.

[@g.g.2359]

Im a simple man who plays paladin... I see RETladen and i watch asap.😊 On topic, unfortunately due simplicity of the class the representation is through the roof and as we know Blizzard's thought process capabilities they are probably thinking ret is insane and even op so i cant expect anything good. Meanwhile the class does not have impressive dps in pvp, all my other classes like boomy, warlock, shadow priest and warrior are doing far better sustain AND burst dps, but i guess this is what we get for being the class with best team utilities. I wish our sustain dps is like 30% higher, but that wont ever happen😂 I do around 850k sustained outside of cd's while i do 1.1 as shadow priest and 1.2 as balance druid again outside of burst cd's. They are also hybrid classes that can heal and the sruid can even have 4 roles and both feral and balance can do better burst and far greater sustain dps.

[@LvladenPvP]

I hope our damage gets slightly buffed in PvP but im okay if it doesnt. I'd much prefer they shift our damage from empyrean hammers and suns avatar back into Final Verdict though. PvP is about doing damage in certain windows and even if we take advantage of our whole toolkit to increase those windows Final Verdict hits like a wet noodle.

[@DekayVods]

Yoo Lvladen, I'm just going around saying this to all the wow pvp content creators. I think ya'll gotta do something to get people playing the game. Obv the big problem is the Q times. People don't want to play healer, of course there is the frustration of trying to find people to play with for rated 3's. The rating grind is frustrating etc... Of course most of this is stuff that needs to be changed by the devs and we can't help. But I stand by my initial statement that WoW PVP is suffering in a big way. People are not playing, it's on reddit, I have felt it while q'ing I beat and lose to the same people over and over again (and I'm only 1500 in 3's). Something has got to happen and I don't think the pvp dev team is being given the resources to make it happen be it manpower or dolla dolla bills. To give an example I'd refernce to the WC3 content creator/ pro Grubby. I've been watching him for the last 2 years and have seen him take baby step after baby step towards making wc3 a better game. It started with of course teaching viewers the game, but he found quite quickly that just because he put guides out and explained every tiny in-depth mechanic about the game did not mean his hard work would translate into a meaningful increase of players in the game. So he started taking other small steps, he started casting "bronze hero's" which is exactly how it sounds, a content format of him watching and commentating on low level players. This personally for me took away some of the anxiety of trying to play the game because I could see that there was indeed a place for me on the latter, however inglorious it may be. He also began branching out for to other games, probably for his own sanity but it also made him more relatable. (Of course this is incredibly difficult for a content creator to do and may not be for you). He became more relatable through this because he chose to play games that were somewhat outside of his wheel house and was able to create content for them under the guise of "See!? I'm a noob too, we all love good games". One of these games was mechabellum which was an auto battler akin to clash of clans, he was able to take the content format for this directly back over to WC3 in the form of Direct Strike which is a custom game mode. This SKYROCKETED the number of players participating in the w3c launcher (relative to where they were, the game is 30+ years old after all). One of the other ways he made the game more approachable for the average viewer was by conspiring with tyler1, diego and other LoL/Dota enjoyers Which he had background with I imagine from his stint in pushing high rank in dota 2. By hosting a noob tournament for them to play in and him to cast, and by having them attempt to team up against him in a 3v1 to see how many gamers it would take to beat a pro wc3 player. All of this together has served to increase wc3's playerbase, followed up by the battle chest release the game is in a much healthier state than when I originally followed it before and he did a great deal of this by himself. There are so many WoW PvP content creators still and I hope you guys read this and take it as a call to action to take the state of the game into your own hands, make it compelling, make it approachable, and get people invested in it again cus man... Fuck these q Times.

[@lc2587]

I’ve been saying this since shadowlands. How to fix ret? 1.Remove all damage and healing modifiers (maybe leave only judgment) 2. Adapt holy power spender digits accordingly 3.unnerf wings to their original 20dmg/crt or 30dmg/haste Congrats

[@LvladenPvP]

I agree. There’s too many ways for the player to mod the abilities. You can have a final verdict hit for 250k or 660k during burst depending on which mods you have active. (Both of which are still small numbers)

[@lc2587]

@@LvladenPvP They always screw it up. It's either 1 shots for 20 sec then wet noodle verdicts. Or its Fury warrior pressure build (herald) . Hammer of light buffs brought back some burst playstyle but still it feels clunky. Hitting 250k spenders on 6 mil + hp is garbage. The meta seems to be fading into secondary micro damage like it did in legion. Hammers, dawnlight, mastery, dots etc

[@Saibo_4]

what kind of transmog is that?

[@Pallehz]

Light's Deliverance should be 25 stacks... MAX

[@BigTunagg]

Santidru best rdruid NA 🌚🌚🌚🌚🌚🌚

[@nedannnn]

What's the name of the shoulders?

[@michaellopez1314]

They arent in the game anymore. They’re the primal glad shoulders

[@nedannnn]

@@michaellopez1314 Ugh, I had a feeling that would be the answer 😢

[@michaellopez1314]

@@nedannnn yep sucks dude, I’ve wanted them for years as well lol

[@aaiidt5770]

can anyone tell me why people still play herald? i don't get it why top players still play it, it feels very lackluster for everything.

[@helioshyperion8077]

Herald is situational, he is more tanky than templar, due to the fact that he has the best heal and can spam it compared to word of glory which is super weak spam

[@davidquirin2606]

We should be raising hell about Empyrean Hammers not prioritizing players. That's just lazy design.

[@LvladenPvP]

It was clearly designed around PvE where it doesnt exactly matter what it hits as long as its hitting something. Same goes for when Avenging Wrath/Crusade/Radiant glory procs AoE dawnlights on random targets.

[@davidquirin2606]

@@LvladenPvP Without a doubt, though they have showcased they can adjust it. Just wondering why they haven't? But I'm all for cycling the power back into Verdict.

[@lamotta-j9o]

changes needed!!buff final verdict and flash of light so poor

[@reecegarysmith7613]

They need to buff final verdict and other core abillites we dont need abillities like hammer of light our main holy power spender needs to do more damage its that simple too many pvp nerfs. Final verdict was one shotting back in shadowlands with proper set ups etc not saying it should be that strong again but it should be stronger then what it is now thats for sure especially during avenging wrath

[@camdeng7426]

Solo shuffle healers not understanding that WoG does nothing past a minute and a half into a round,

[@LvladenPvP]

To be fair not many offheals do much at that point haha, especially with an MS.

[@camdeng7426]

@@LvladenPvP they don’t seem to understand that hahahaha

[@dmitryndk]

Ret is fine

[@karlstevens3711]

Keep telling yourself that.

[@timothycalkins6105]

Why do rets want a damn rework every season, shits wild

[@LvladenPvP]

Hmm I didn’t know shifting damage from empyrean hammers and suns avatar and unnerfing wings constitutes a rework.

[@helioshyperion8077]

cuz every season ret is not even A tier dude. look what is the meta broken classes that are for ages the same broken classes, all kinds of druids/all kinds of mages/all kinds of lock/all kinds of shamans/ hunters/rogues they did fix somehow fury again, but pala remained worthless in most scenarios. his window of burst gets nulled down by the fear spams going on right now

[@timothycalkins6105]

@@helioshyperion8077 you’re fried, I’m surprised you rets haven’t cried for a ms yet, y’all have everything else already

[@stoneblood9864]

i fucking hate playing templar past 2100. its way to hard to line up your dawn stacks with hammer of light consistently. all u have to do is throw cc on ret when his wings pop and he will most likely not be able to use his hammer in time. also the bugs on hammer of light consuming 5 holy power while not going off is incredibly annoying. also your falling hammer hitting random pets around u instead of players makes it not nearly as good imo. i think templar is good overall but imo at 2300. its very unreliable and not worth it. a random 3 mill crit is fun but herald or the sun just feels better overall as a spec and its 10000% more reliable in getting overall damage out imo.

[@LvladenPvP]

Im about at 2600cr in blitz and 2450cr in shuff Templar definitely still feels good but both are viable for sure! I almost never had a hammer of light expire before use. I will say the bug is annoying for sure and hopefully gets fixed soon!

[@stoneblood9864]

@ maybe im just bad then ldk lol. i just feel like every time i play templar in solos, ill pop wings and immediately get coiled or db or something lmao. as i was typing this response, i had a monk in a full hoj and he revivaled my hammer of light and it still wasted all my holy power lmao. i cant win dude 😂

[@Alrokako]

Not seeing how you are getting more from Herald unless recent patches have changed it drastically, not having waking ashes buffed attack is terrible

[@stoneblood9864]

@@Alrokako dawnlight still hits hard asf at the moment and its just better overall consistent pressure imo. emperyan hammers hits everyone but players and templar just feel like u are trying set up for 1 big 1 shot. herald u get your damge out no matter what and against casters, u have almost 100% up time.

[@Alrokako]

@stoneblood9864 That's just my point at least Templar has a finisher with Herald there never feels like you can deliver a killing blow an eventually your partner dies in process but that's from my experience using Herald

[@VIC-yy2hp]

The State of ret is 20min Q - Q pop/cancel/pop/cancel again 20 min Q

[@LvladenPvP]

LOOOOL

[@VIC-yy2hp]

Big respect for the time you take for these videos. It's more fun to watch guides instead of playing 🫡👍

[@Westcoastco]

I main ret for. 3 years now the damage has never felt this bad I decided to switch him to holy instead i am sad but they just missing meaningful wings again

[@FoxisFitness]

SL RET was WAYYYY more fun

[@LvladenPvP]

I hated SL for the first 9 months but after all the QOL buffs it was good. I miss Vanq hammer for sure.