What is SSD Caching and Should You Bother On Your NAS?

[@cinemaipswich4636]

I suggest that you max out your RAM on the motherboard first. It is the 1st level cache outside of the CPU. It is super fast, does not get hot and lasts for dozens of years. Then, and only then, should you entertain using any other cache. This is why Servers have terabytes of RAM. Resilient SSD's should be contemplated for they are modeled on the RAM system, and last 10X longer than your average SSD.

[@STONJAUS_FILMS]

wow, this actually makes so much sense, and actually rather than adding cache to your HDD pools, as a video editor handling big size projects I can say it has been better to create a separate SSD or NVMe pool where I store the smaller frequently used files I need for editing, like project file, proxies, and all the cache things that Davinci needs to work properly... even sound files cuz they don't take as much space. ... only when grading or exporting the big files are being read and I have eno complaints so far from my 6x 3 TB RAIDZ2 pool. Except a learning curve when setting it up and annoying updates every 1 or 2 years.

[@McKevittS]

If you can find them, intel Optane drives are perfect for a cache drive, but they weren't made in large capacities

[@madspecv]

Thank you soooo much man!!! I was going to get 2 x NVME for cache on my new TS-464-8G but I only use it as a 6 x 6Tb raid 5 drive for my Plex media, that's it. Now I know that it would not change a thing. Thanks for saving me tons of cash, keep it up !!

[@Theeancientone]

Appreciate all your Qnap knowledge. Saved me a lot of headaches, just did a 6TB to 12TB drive upgrade for my 6 occupied bays and added 4TB of SSD (SATA) caching using the SSD SATA bays, still have two unused with 2TB each. maybe later I'll get rid of this caching and use my two m.2 internal bays for caching but learned from your videos for my purposes at this time m.2 isn't much of a difference for my read only caching for meta data. Your videos were a tremendous help. Thanks again! Its my media plex server TS-1277 12 bay (with two internal m.2 interfaces not included in the 12) AMD 8 core processor with 64GB of RAM. You're the KING of Qnap in my book!

[@Prod-23]

Easy to sum up. Lots of unique/large files, on unique paths (photo, video, audio editing etc) No bueno!! Lots of same file path access, heyy cacherooy!

[@MrPir84free]

I remember buying a EMC SAN solution at work about 10+ years ago; the bosses weren't super concerned about performance, so 45 TB of 10K and 15K drives - mostly 300G and 600G SAS drives. The EMC sales guy was NICE enough to throw in three 100G SSD's; two for a mirror for caching; and a hot spare - all so we could see the benefit of SSD caching. Their engineer turned on caching for all 45 TB ; seemed slower than the previous SAN. Turned it off because the system was way faster without it; several months later I talked with a real engineer; and he gave me the recommendation of 10%; It was turned on at the POOL level; and the smallest pools we had were like 3.5 TB, well, the sales guy's generosity was overwhelming; after all, it meant it could not be used even on the smallest of pools. Proper sizing of the cache is an important concept; if you don't have enough cache, may as well leave it turned off.

[@ace41367]

It’s important to note, that in most NAS systems with shared storage, metadata requests, especially when you have several systems, can form the bulk of the data access requests. This is where a read cache can provide huge benefits. Full disclosure , I worked in a network cache company that was acquired by NetApp , and they bought the company to basically take it off the market, it provided 3-5x performance boost, that was not good for filer sales. Also depending on the write algo’s (and I don’t know how synology does this), you can improve writes to underlying slower disks, since they can coalesce writes, which also helps longevity of spinning media.

[@daveg4417]

I have an Asustor AS6704T with three 16TB Exos drives in RAID-5 and two 1TB NVMe in RAID-1. I chose not to use any read or write caching, since I use the NAS only for file storage. The NVMe are the first volume, so they hold the OS and apps, plus a temp folder if I need it for fast temporary storage.

[@bertnijhof5413]

Most laptops will have a 1 Gbps network connection and that is max 125MB/s and that is the sequential read speed of a modest HDD. SSD caching for a home NAS is mostly useless, it would be useful for a Virtual Machine Server like Proxmox. SSD caching for your local HDD inside your desktop is also useful. On my desktop I have a 2TB HDD and it is cached by an 128GB sata-SSD and it improves booting of VMs from the cached HDD to 2x that of my nvme-SSD. I have close to a 10% cache ratio, 90GB SSD partition for 1TB HDD partition with 18% of ancient VMs from the 16- and 32-bits PC periods.

[@ConstantinDendrinos]

I could finally get the whole cashing thing. Thank you so much for your video!

[@Belka50]

Thank you, I love your videos. Just moved up from the ds220j to the Synology DS923+ and was thinking of nvme cashing and this cleared things up for me, you saved me some money! Thanks again.

[@ejharrop1416]

Thank you, very practical message on SSD, helped me a great deal. Cheers

[@SocialWorkProfessor]

I heard that DSM 7 changes the way it handles SSD cache to make it more useful. Anyone know if that's true?

[@blocktrain849]

Yes on 923+ only not other models

Thank you! You are the man, the useful videos very good info! This video changed my mind about how to setup my upcoming QNAP ts-h973ax. I will use 2.5 SSD drive for caching instead the m.2 nvme sdd as I will use the caching files for config files and 3-4 users in my home network the speed moving those files through the main drives will not be significant to put the m.2 nvme. I will rather use the ZFS structure the to create a 2nd pool of raid for media storage and faster access.

[@andywray3446]

I use an AS3304T as a backup/archival/system recovery device only. As such, it is ideal without SSD caching as that would make virtually no difference to me. Because I use it as a write device 99% of the time, I will be limited by the speed of the spinning discs regardless. FWIW: I do find that iSCSI is more performant than SMB for my backup use. Maybe a video on iSCSI versus SMB versus other protocols would be worthwhile. Also, I use a 2.5G which has meant that the network has been removed as a bottleneck in my particular configuration.

[@pnachtwey]

I have two Synology NASs. A Synology DS1522 at home and a Synology DS1019 remote. I have my caches setup as read-write with raid 1. I have about 30 TB on the old DS1019 and 2 1TB SSDs for cache. That is way too much cache. The Synology Drive Manager says I get 100% cache hits but only use 45G. I have never seen either NAS use more than 100GB. My 2 1TB SSD are a waste. I bought 2 512 GB SSD for a capacity of 500GB. I never come close to using even half. For personal use I don't think a cache is necessary but for a busy work place file server it is a must. Since I retired I haven't really put much strain on my NASs.

[@smudgepost]

Great videos as always. I always upvote the 'Seagull Channel'

[@mytreasurechess]

That's a really cool and clear intro to an older newbie. Thanks commenters too.

[@chrisbullock6477]

I'd go for the M.2 drives just so I'm not taking up HDD bay space, and with it being so cheap now its affordable great performance.

[@AyYoDimeloLoco]

Always appreciate your videos!

[@TheFrenchy82]

Thank you , I understand now .... Well.. it's not for me (multimedia center use...).

[@Sylvan_dB]

What I want is a full HSM NAS. SSD for frequently used data, hard disk for most storage, and the ability to attach optical disks for archival data or a optical writer for archiving. (I'm so done with tape...)

[@hughhemington9559]

DSM needs to include tools to assist users in configuring and tuning cache. Otherwise, users will "shotgun" it; tossing cache in the box and hoping it helps, but even then are there tools to MEASURE performance benefit or is that just left to perception?

[@Cysmoke]

Superb summary, thx!

[@edwardhammock24]

Really useful. Many thanks.

[@rashadal-safar1931]

But surely if I have a 2 x 10 gig link aggregated connection on an 1821+ synology with the AMD processor, it would be well worth it when it comes to scrubbing on video editing no? Just trying to build a system for a team of editors and obviously want it to perform well

[@toofy7253]

I'm doing the same thing. Pretty sure the NVMe is absolutely necessary for video editors pushing more demanding footage

[@xenonozhid3383]

Great video as usual thank you. Would you suggest using an SSD as a cache for backup purposes?

[@ivanluhi]

Thanks! You just saved me a couple of $$$! :)

[@tombouie]

Thks, Mr Caching PhD & request an update.

[@djpdjp2488]

I have a qnap ts262 (4gb of RAM, 2 SATA bays, and 2 PCie slots). I want to speed up AI for QuMagie. What do you think of combining benefits of the Coral TPU (USB interface) with SSD caching? ChatGPT seems to think write back caching would work hand in hand with the TPU because the TPU would be reading the data from the SSD rather than the HDD. Interested in your thoughts on this idea?

[@beardedgaming1337]

good video, lots of information here. i was thinking of using smaller sata drives on each zfs pool for slog cache. and maybe a dual nvme on x1 3.0 pcie riser for write/meta data cache. not sure which way im going yet.

[@Myektaie]

Thanks!

[@GlenMunday]

Thanks, Do you have any testing on cheap SSDs as cache for us poorer people? Really how well do they perform and are they really worth buying.

[@johnwilsoniii4757]

Great video 👍🏾

[@theredpiller6449]

does SSD caching keep the HDDs spinned down? this is my main concern.

[@TS175]

Hello, I hope all is well. I was attempting to migrate from a 5 to 8 Bay synology and forgot to put my ssd's in the new unit, which led to my pool crashing. I put the ssd's in the new 8 bay and have not been able to reverse the crash thus far. I'm hoping synology experts can help, but it's not looking good. 30 years of data possibly gone... so devastated. Thanks!

[@chrismclean2989]

Would it be reasonable to assume that low’ish capacity SSD’s would suffice for cache’ing ?… can’t imagine home / semi pro users needing that much in terms of capacity 🤔

[@briansimison4751]

Brilliant!

[@robertoperezjr.1119]

thanks for the explanation. I was looking into this, but it won't really help me. thanks for saving me money. hehee

[@TommyRasmussen-g3j]

I'm gonna have a media nas to watch movies so if I get this is possible to when I want to watch a movie instead of reading slowly it can transfer the movie fast and put the drives in sleep mode and the read the ssd instead. I have an 500 gb nvme drive that is not in use.

[@Revamp-Atelier]

Excellent.. to the point video... @nascompares.. 👌 @fthorsen - I echo your thoughts for OS and App requirements as this is exactly what I want to try and do. @cinemaipswich4636 - I agree with you, as your point is spot on.. 😉 So my next purchase will be RAM first. Then to install two NVMe PCIe to setup as a 1T SSD pool ( Raid 1 mirror for resilience ) to have the OS install on to the SSD as a first location done as part of a rebuild (no HDD in the system at this point). I want to max out the bandwidth on the motherboard BUS only between RAM, Processor and SSD for a fluid OS and App processing not for general data transfer or storage or personal files. As a home user the standard 1G lan is fast enough for my tasks (2 x time machine BU's / running home assistant / surveillance footage / VPN / general data storage). So my only worry is NAND expiring due to r/w but once the OS is installed and the Apps likewise the biggest r/w will or should be on the HDD pool not so much the SSD. I think I might machine up a small heat sink for the NVMe controller on each NVMe as I think there will be an internal case space issue and these may be the only added complication.. Anybody tried this or am I even on the right right track??

[@aliservan7188]

Thank you, you just saved me about 700 quid

[@nascompares]

No worries mate *pushes empty pint glass across the table*, your round!

[@fthorsen]

I would like to see a comparison on read/write cache, tiered storage (QTier and Synology) and a dedicated SSD RAID 1 for the NAS OS, apps and VMs. Ideally with NVMe SSDs. I can't really get a good handle on this. For me personally it's important to have the NAS OS and apps, DBs, etc on an SSD so that the load/wear on the HHDs are less, and the performance of Apps (Plex), DBs, etc is top notch. Before I got a NAS I was running everything on a Windows Server, and there it was much easier to place OS and apps where you wanted them to run. Also - if you install a NVMe RAID-1 in a new NAS I understand it will use this for the NAS OS. If you then create a traditional RAID-5/6 with HHDs, will the NAS OS also replicate to this RAID and run from there, or is it just for backup?

[@thethirdman225]

Usually, the OS gives you the option to use it as storage or as a cache.

[@beardedgaming1337]

so... i have 340TB of storage... so, 34tb of ssd storage o.O

[@mph8759]

Great video! With PCI gen2 x2 in my Qnap TS-453D and 4x 4TB in RAID6, what caching solution do you recommend?

[@michaelbauers8800]

Has anyone tried SSD caching for hosting steam games on their NAS?

[@norbertkliszczewski4776]

Thanks so much for the videos! So useful! Specific Use Question from a Pro Photographer - Using a Sinology 1821+ with NAS 7200RPM drives with 10GBe connectivity for editing RAW (29MB) images directly on NAS. The Lightroom catalog is on my MacBook Pro SSD. Will I see any real performance benefits by installing NVME SSD? Would I see any performance benefits in Lightroom by upgrading from the standard 4GB RAM? Thx All!

[@saucisse_dev]

Initially I thinked that SSD will decrease the transfert time by first copying files on SSD then copying in the background the files on the NAS.... But after mounting 2 SSD in my NAS it changed absolutely nothing... So I returned them to Amazon.

[@michaelbauers8800]

Thanks for comment. Been thinking of NOT doing SSD cache. I read multiple posts of people's M2 drives failing, making me wonder if some SSDs can't handle the write count, given that SSDs have some limitation on that. And not clear how it would help me, as my primary use case for NAS is backing up data, and hosting music.

[@DominicCarterTV]

Was trying to pinpoint what most ended up settling on for their SSD cache setup? Did you end up doing read only in Raid 0 or something else? Also I'm on Monterrey & 872XT on mobo version 1.7 and thunderbolt port is pretty much disabled. Shows disconnected. 2 days of owning this setup. I've heard of a lot of problems with disconnects but didn't imagine the port simply not showing up. I thought it might be my cable but as a workaround I'm using cal digit T3 to 10GBE adapter. So curious what everyone's doing to achieve these crazy write speeds. NVME didn't seem to make a noticeable difference for me so far. I max out around 500mb/sec write & 1000mb/sec read on 10GE with or without NVME cache set to read/write raid 1. Jumbo frames set to 9000 - Your ending statement seems like it makes sense because I haven't noticed any difference. Now as a video editor maybe I could set this up to edit from the NVME's and then transfer once finished editing? But again I'm not seeing any noticeable speed difference currently but I can try testing different types of volume setups?

[@blp9724]

So would it be correct to say that for a NAS system (latest Qnp or Synology 8 bay) used mostly for photo or video editing, an SSD cache system would not add speed to image processing?

[@NormanTheDormantDoormat]

If you are serious about it, you are probably going to use a 10 gigabit ethernet connection or something else at higher than the standard 1 gigabit ethernet. In that case you gotta ask yourself: "can my normal disks saturate a 10 gig link?". If not, add 2 or more m.2 nvme ssds and you could suddenly saturate 2x 10 gig ethernet connections AND get way better small file handling/responsiveness.

[@luckyduck1985]

My question is regarding noise. I have an 872XT and use it for video editing over Thunderbolt. When reading, the HDD clicks are somewhat noisy. I am a single user and don't have room or real ability to run 10G ethernet and keep the NAS in another room. Would SSD Caching theoretically reduce the amount of HDD clicks when editing a project that could theoretically fit on it? I'm not expecting no noise from a system like this and would make the SSDs read only, but even a 50% decrease in noise would be welcome.

[@TheFbiFilesRepeat]

I have the same problem, bought a read ssd but it doesnt get any lees noisy :(

[@ronnywenkeimages9313]

What HDD do you use? I had the same/similar problem with 16TB Red Pro disks. Needed to return them after 1 week. Now it is way better with the 16TB Ironwolf Pro disks.

[@ballamaniac6984]

Would prolly be less noisy if u had a ssd pool because it would be reading from the ssd instead of hdd

[@Ryan-mq8vf]

I'm running Jellyfin on a DS420+ and I find that although the movies play just fine the Jellyfin application itself can be rather slow when more then one user is accessing it at once. Would a cache help with this process?

[@olivierfillionboutin3566]

I'm planing to buy the DS1821+ and I want to increase the cache. 1- I see that the MVNe recommended for this models are the Synology 400bg or 800gb. Can I install bigger ones like 1 or 2 tb (x2)? Or is it too much? 2- Can it also be a different brand than Synology? 3- Also, if I upgrade the cache with MVNe, should I also upgrade the DDR4 RAM from 4gb to 32gb or is it redundant?

[@saish57]

Hi, I have a DS 718 and recently bought another nas 920+ , for nas, with name, I want to use it as a working drive will cache help

[@fvheel]

What do you recoment: ssd-cashe or ssd-bootdrives. When i make a pool in QuTS Hero Qnap recoments ssd's as a bootdrive. Also in QuTS Hero i can ONLY use 2 ssd's in raid 0 (NO RAID 1) in read-only mode.

[@garyrds]

I just installed 2x M.2 PCIe NVMe SSDs into a TVS-674 for the OS QuTS and it installed as RAID1.

[@jamiesedgefield5476]

i installed nvme cache so I could get higher performance on small files being transferred, it doesn't do crap small files still running at 9MB/sec, large files 100MB/sec. Anyone have any advice?

[@DanielWillen]

Should you SSD cache if you have an SSD array? Maybe NVME is faster, but seems like an edge case

[@COLDoCLINCHER37]

I want to know the answer to this also

[@JoseyStranded]

@@COLDoCLINCHER37 Me too. Actually I thought it would have been explained in the video.

[@COLDoCLINCHER37]

@@JoseyStranded from what I seen you don't need the cache it made no different to me at all

[@phillvallace]

Using read cache, if your accessing a frequently used file, does that mean the HDDs don't need to spin up if at idle, saving a bunch of power, noise & load time?

[@benjaminleonhardi3830]

Yeah it will only read from the cache. However for really frequent files you get that anyhow with Linux fs ram cache. With read write cache it will write back changes every 900 seconds in the standard config

[@T3hderk87]

I hate seagulls too

[@nascompares]

*fist bump* nice

[@simonuncle6758]

How are the benefits using nvme ssd to install system and hard drives for storage data only ?

[@nascompares]

Tough to explain without spiralling into a massive paragraph or two. Basically, the benefits would be the same as running an OS off an SSD, with apps, tools ane services being much more responsive and ensures that the slower HDDs (RAID or not) are not getting additionally hit for system tools when they load (much higher frequency but low volume storage requests). Thanks for watching

[@smartzpixel]

should i get 1tb or 2tb ssd for cache?

[@nascompares]

Scale it against at least 10% of your storage. So 10TB = 1TB, if you go higher than 10TB, get a 2TB

[@ColeridgeGlenn]

Davis Kenneth Walker Joseph Moore Mark

[@elysiumcore]

I like seagulls 🕊️😂

[@nascompares]

you WHAT!

[@thewaliiiii]

So in short.. its useless for most people.

[@mazenkheder3309]

You talk too much, try to be direct to the point, make it short and sweet

[@MikeBeeTV]

Do NOT use SSD caching! It takes all the redundancy of a RAID and throws it out the window. One SSD fails and you lose your entire volume.

[@Mrperson0]

What if you set up the cache in a RAID 1?

[@MikeBeeTV]

@@Mrperson0 Doesn't matter. If you use SSD caching you could even have RAID TLM (Threat Level Midnight) configured and if an SSD drive used for caching fails your entire RAID is unrecoverable. So: never, every, ever, never, never use SSD caching. This is horrifically bad software design by Synology and is evidence of their gross incompetence. The cache _SHOULD_ flush itself every 30 mins or so. It does not. Double-Plus Unsmart. Let me reiterate: do not use SSD caching. Ever under any circumstances. Also don't ever use SSD caching. In addition to not using SSD caching. SSD caching hates your freedom and will eat the last of your peanut butter chocolate chip chocolate ice cream leaving you with nothing to drown your sorrow at losing your entire 36TB RAID 6 because you used an SSD cache. Don't do it. Using SSD caching completely removes all redundancy from your RAID (it's in the NAME! Redundant...) and is the dumbest thing ever made. Except for maybe that flightless airplane.

[@iMateLite]

Please, get a better microphone setup. You cover such a specific subject and doing it pretty well but frankly, I barely hear/understand anything.

[@innocentbystander8346]

Not worth watching - the guy doesn't say anything interesting, just blubbers endlessly in order to prolong the video (some sort of psychiatric issue, perhaps?)

[@michaelbauers8800]

Seemed relevant and focused to me.

[@vasquez81]

Get a new mic!

[@RickMyBalls]

I always enjoy the 'I Hate Seagulls' channel.

[@LuckyNikitaBoba]

SATA is so slow compare to PCIE M.2 NVME. Why is the industry still using SATA SSD?

[@FilmMonger]

He explains it at 11:33. Basically not every system can take advantage of the higher speeds, the unit he has on the desk, he says can only go to 1 or 2k MBps, and other units with more budget processors won't be able to take advantage of the top speeds either. There's also price to capacity to consider, since for the price of a 4 TB NVMe you could buy an 18 TB HDD or a 4 TB SATA SSD + a 1 TB SSD. Lastly, if you use something like ZFS with the right setup on SATA SSDs, you can theoretically bottleneck a 10 Gbps connection anyway.

[@Elpuchungosexy]

Ooh really so is not beneficial for editing video 🧐 that’s interesting

[@markbeatty6151]

Thanks!

[@LSUEngineer1978]

Robbie, Thanks for the clear and honest advice. Very helpful.

[@nascompares]

Cheers man

[@jonathonphillips5880]

You make great videos thanks!