What is the best boiler heat exchanger in 2022, cast iron v copper v aluminium v stainless steel.

[@Lutonman2010]

I used to think that stainless was premium. But looking back over the last few years, I’ve had two boilers with complete heat exchanger blockages. Not even a powerflush would shift it. Both stainless. Both vailants. I’ve had zero blocked heat exchangers on Ali blocks. Also I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds, in fact probably nigh on a thousand logics/I minis/independents/i2 boilers and I’ve only ever found one pin holed heat ex. So given the ten year warranty, I’ve kind of changed my mind now and think that as long as the boiler/system is looked after then in the real world there’s actually very little difference between the two. Except the price.

[@SalimKhan-gk1fh]

You make a good point wayne ,there is no way a power flush will shift the blockage on a vaillant heat exchanger as they are twin pass crap heat exchangers made by giannoni! The very reason I don’t use these vaillant boilers anymore, best stainless heat exchanger has to be viessmann I think , I have seen lots of ideal boilers with pinhole problems, always same place though in top left hand corner below burner, possibly a casting issue though?

[@CommercialGasEngineerVideos]

TomKat you're too clever. Good job. Love the content. A channel that you can learn something from. Keep it going.

[@SalimKhan-gk1fh]

Good video mate the best stainless heat exchanger currently on the market is VIESSMANN its top quality stainless steel one grade down from medical stainless steel I think the failure rate on them has been more or less zero, In 15 years I have never seen one blocked up

[@zedzed1046]

My customers 47 year old ideal standard cast iron boiler just keeps going, it wont die, costs more to run but hasnt had 3 changes in the time, bugger all parts to go wrong.

[@Oldgamingfart]

Yes, my parents still have their Potterton 16-22 Electronic. Don't worry - CO alarms everywhere! 😨

[@Han-es8qu]

Because the waterways in aluminium heat exchangers are much larger, the water velocity can be reduced, not only does this reduce hydraulic resistance through the heat exchanger it reduces noise created by water flow rates. In fact, the Logic+ and Logic Max ranges have both been awarded the Quiet Mark award for such low noise levels.

[@willlomas2725]

Cheers fella great video.

[@kevinw7419]

To get a blockage in any heat exchanger is rare. If the primary water is bad with magnitite then your asking for problems. Best check the quantity of the primary water! Generally the system would tend to be very neglected over time then that would lead to a blockage!

[@Tom_Plumb_PHS]

You touched on people not servicing boilers. But people will also either as a diy/or with a handyman/decorator drain and remove rads periodically for decorating and may not bother to check inhibitor levels afterwards. Therefore I'm leaning evermore towards stainless as a more robust option. Mlcp rad pipework for same reasons too inner layer is inert plastic. Only the rads themselves and the valves to worry about then.

[@huyongquan6554]

my worcester bosch CDI last 22 years now and looks like will last another 10 years. amazing for that kind of aluminium cell. I prefer stainless one but could think about the legend of worcester cdi cell

[@RedwolfDogrocket]

And do you know why? Because in 2000 we didn't have shitty condensing boilers. Your cdi is around 79% efficient and made of steel, copper and brass. The new Worcsester Botch are made of very badly cast aluminium silicate, recycled milk bottle plastic, in a pretty packaged box.

[@pizzablender]

The single pass pipes do seem to me to rely on a low feed temperature for good condensation. Where aluminium and double coils will use the return water for a condensing stage. I've noticed a shift from using 30/50 towards 30/35 temperatures in specs.

[@raul835]

Another cracking video.. Thanks Derek

[@paulmillyard8043]

Very good information.Thankyou

[@bentzionroyde4786]

Thanks Derek great video 👍

[@tomstrutton4351]

My experience….. the stainless steel heat exchangers I’m most familiar with are the 10mm diameter version….and after around 10 yrs they block ( depending on state of system) and are impossible to clear…. Aluminium rot/ corrode and if not strip serviced the airways block….life expectancy is also around 10yrs

[@davidk4078]

Thanks Derek. Another informative video. You have missed the unique Intergas heat exchanger from your list. IMO the best available, for durability, & pipe size through the exchanger (22mm heating & 12 mm for direct HW, NO PLATE). They have manufactured over 2 Million hex units since the 90's with Zero failures. They have many other benefits. Do check them out if you haven't heard much about them? Keep up the sterling work. :)

[@tomkatgastraining]

It’s still aluminium though

[@bovnet]

Why are you asking ? Cast iron floor standing boilers last 35 years

[@altinvako]

Very good video. Aluminium heat exchanger vs stainless steel heat exchanger i think stainless steel is much better. But there are different types of stainless steel aisi 304 and aisi 316L. The aisi 316L has better corrosion resistance.

[@pizzablender]

The geometry of the single coil stainless steel ones seems less efficient if a higher temperature rise occurs in the boiler. As part of the coil will be at the outlet temp.

[@jockster5525]

Stainless steel ..for me at least . Good video tho 👍 thanks for your efforts

[@SargentGunnery]

In reguards to stainless steel heat exchanger, here is a fun experiment you guy can do. Next time you open one up for cleaning, get a magnet and see if the dirt you find inside sticks to it.

[@InfernalStateMachine]

Very infromative video. I still don't understand how alu vs stainless steel exchangers should affect my choice between 2 boilers, given that the exchangers are in both cases under guarantee, and I will need to service them every year so if anythig bad happens, I should still be covered. And by the way, regardless of the guarantee, if alu is cheaper, does it not also mean they'll be cheaper to replace when neeeded?

[@noelburke6224]

Go Intergas

[@efrygasservices6169]

Great explanations as always 👍

[@Han-es8qu]

Also coiled aluminium heat exchangers type. like Vokera.

[@darrenclarke161]

Another great vid .👍

[@mrcombiBedford]

Fantastic thanks for explaining so every one can understand that inhibitor and annual boiler check is the key to a boiler life and costs, what about Intergas how do they compare ?

[@tomkatgastraining]

Don’t know that much about intergas mate. I know their water ways are copper inside an aluminium injection moulded heat exchanger with 2 separate water ways one for heating and one for the hot water. So again I guess because the water ways are copper the ph will need to be spot on.

[@mrcombiBedford]

@@tomkatgastraining Mine is 10 years old still 93% as new also bills are very low, I love it, such a logical way no diverter or plate to plate. regards George Staszak

[@allsearpw3829]

Hi, are you saying you need a water softener to control the ph. value on a domestic boiler ? or do you do a ph. test and add more inhibiter ? 35 years running an Ideal W and only had 1 thermo - couple

[@tomkatgastraining]

The inhibitors control the PH

[@richardwallace3477]

Good question

[@allsearpw3829]

@@richardwallace3477 Hi, see the answer above

[@timhancock6626]

I had a number of Ideal Ws where the cast iron heat exchanger corroded and failed 20 years ago. There were hundreds of them in social housing contracts, and Ideal Concordes. Don't get me wrong, they were very good and simple boilers that gave long service, but I wouldn't want one today under any circumstances.

[@richardwallace3477]

I can only apologise for my Thorn cast iron boiler that I put in 30 years ago and it was a second hand boiler back then. It’s got the same gas valve but has gone through a few thermocouples. It’s a 60 BTU boiler but I think it uses 80 BTU so it’s efficiency is not that good (60/80 x 100 % I think). It keeps a thermal store hot so is always full on when the thermal store calls for heat. The store is the same age and is getting tired so a new one is on the cards this summer. The question is, do I update my boiler at the same time or keep the boiler until I have rusted through and started pushing up daisies?

[@bovnet]

Keep it. A thermocouple every few years is better combi churn

[@sennengomes]

Another of your very informative videos. 👍🏽 I’m looking to change from the Kingfisher 2, but can’t find a floor standing stainless steal boiler to ensure it sits in the same place as the Kingfisher 2. Any suggestions? Btw, I’ve had the Kingfisher for 28yrs, it’s serviced every two years and works a treat. Last serviced on 29/9/2021… Service engineer left us with 3 readings… 90.3% efficiency, 5.95% CO2, 5ppm CO.

[@copperskills3973]

90.3% efficiency is net efficiency so actually only 81 % ish. That’s probably from cold when the return pipe hasn’t raised much in temperature. A viessmann 222 has a stainless steel heat exchanger and is floor standing

[@tomstrutton4351]

No way is that kingfisher that efficient

[@timhancock6626]

That 90.3% is not the boiler efficiency, that is the efficiency of the combustion of the gas. The efficiency of the boiler is how much of that energy is converted into usable heat and with a cast iron heat exchanger there are higher losses in the transfer to water, and slower heat up times plus the inability to operate in condensing mode which maximises efficiency. Your boiler is probably somewhere around 60% efficient at a guess.

[@kevinw7419]

Aluminium heat exchangers for condensing boilers are predominately Aluminium Silicate to try and combat the acidity in the condense! You can see how badly they work against the condense when you see the crap that collects in the condense trap which can lead to a build up of deposits! They are a lot cheaper that is mainly why manufacturers use them. Stainless steel are far better being corrosion resistant and its made a lot easier to service one due to the great Giacomo design giving front access in behind the burner. They tend to outlast the general lifetime of the boiler with other component issues failing over time that lead to replacement of the boiler!

[@timhancock6626]

The alloy heat exchanger in my Ideal Turbo 2 lasted 25 years and was retired before it failed. Apart from having inhibitor no special attention was given to water quality, and it only had a Magnaclean for the last six years of its life. It was replaced with a Logic that has done six years fault free so far.

[@pizzablender]

Remeha (BDR / Brotje / De Dietrich / Baxi) have some kind of enameled aluminium these days.

[@samchappell233]

Great video 👍

[@kevinmancicius8461]

Enjoyed this video. As ever Both Informative and accurate. Have to say both Heat Exchangers are good both with their Achilles Heels Stainless steel blocks badly are noisier when introduced to dirty systems , Alloy heat exchangers quieter I’ve come across a few that leak due to corrosion. 90% of boiler related issues I come across are to do with dirty water. Key is to thoroughly Powerflush use good Chemicals replace old rads then all heat exchangers are happy. I

[@milkman100001]

i wouldnt say the Worcester nor the ideal are lighter than the new Baxi's

[@RedwolfDogrocket]

Did you know that Ideal have a non-condensing boiler in R&D that is over 90% efficient. No freezing problems and incredible lifespan. Can't build it. Why? It's not a condensing boiler. By the letter of the law.

[@noelburke6224]

Stainless steel all the way

[@ZIBO2830]

I'm working in the USA and here , 80% of boilers are cust iron boilers

[@elisabethricci401]

that's because we have the space in the US, and they're better

[@farukadam1696]

Good fantastic Friends of stainless Steel is a best Regards Faruk

[@SuperWayneyb]

🤘😎🤘

[@onewheelnut]

I'm sure pH testing is now in British standards

[@tomkatgastraining]

Yes it is

[@RedwolfDogrocket]

So get a floor standing ideal Classic with a cast iron heat exchanger that lasts 40+ years with a fan flue with the cast iron heat exchanger and a secondary gas recouperator that is easy to replace. Why not? Nobody wants a boiler to last since 2006 Aprit 1st when the E.U forced this condensing law. Want the truth follow the money.

[@RedwolfDogrocket]

Not shitty Worcester Bosch. Should be called Woofter Botch. The Ideal aluminium heat exchanger is a good one. Under that is the ideal classic cast iron heat exchanger. Under that is the copper heat exchanger in the Brittony 2T or the old Worcsester Junior 24. All these condensing boilers crank out so much carbon monoxide and nitrous oxide (The smog causing gas) at street level that sits there for the kids to walk to school in and the cars get the blame BUT hey at least it isn't Co2 right? Also replacing boilers every 10-15 years is better for the planet right? Not something that lasts 30-50 years. Get out the flue gas analyser and see the truth.

[@timhancock6626]

Can't disagree about the CO. Action levels on modern boilers are c.200 ppm CO. As long as its below that the boiler manufacturer isn't bothered. An old steam driven boiler would tick along at 15-20 ppm CO or less. Nobody mentions that do they 😉

[@RedwolfDogrocket]

@@timhancock6626 thank you!