What Is The Best Way To Hide a Mistake Gap

So you made a mistake and now you want to hide it. What is the best filler to Make a flaw disappear?
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[@JaspisB]

Nice job! Also a little funny that both you and Stumpy released glue-themed videos within hours of each others 😅

[@tom314]

Who could see "I see a big spreadsheet coming" a mile off? I was then getting disappointed (but still enjoying it) as the video went though showing some quick results and it looked like there'd be no big spreadsheet, but then happiness again with the announcement of a proper big test :) I mean who'd have expected the rollercoaster from a wood filler video...

[@jhowe5571]

By about the 3 minute mark, the whole thing regarding different means of hiding mistakes had become nuts! 🤣 It's as if you had been sniffing too much glue! 🤣

[@egbluesuede1220]

The hardest working man on YT just threw down the gauntlet. Fascinating topic for a detailed study!

[@OswaldoAgurto]

By far.. this is passion combined with will and intelligence. Very valuable

[@raw037]

I rarely try to match the color. I find I can hide imperfections better going darker and making the hole or crack more irregular, making it look like a natural defect. The most important thing I have learned is not to show anyone your mistakes! Most people will not even notice them. Others may think it’s part of the piece.

[@OswaldoAgurto]

True that. And sometimes it's not your mistake! Maybe is a wood defect or a worm that left a hole.

[@criswilson1140]

Puddy and paint make it what it ain't! I've been using white elmer's glue and sawdust for gap filling for years. I'm not sure why I switched to white versus yellow for filling, but I think it had to do with color matching. For woods to use in the test I would suggest white oak, red oak, cherry, poplar, maple, black walnut, and pine. For finishes to test I would suggest BLO, tung oil, a water based stain, an oil based stain, and a gel coat stain. I await another awesome spreadsheet!

[@wannabefunnyman]

Now that’s a spreadsheet I’m looking forward to!

[@jamesmcconnell8556]

I use “ Plastic wood “ to hide my mistakes ( as a beginner ) I make plenty! Plastic Wood seems to work well for me, i sands down and acts like real wood. It stains well.

[@mikeandlucky]

I like the idea of leaving the gaps. I have spent a lot of effort with products like Timbermate trying to hide the gaps. But I have heard the term "leave the mark of the maker" referring to those little saw marks when you saw the dovetails just a tiny bit too far and maybe the same applies for the gaps. Thanks.

[@WelcomeFBS]

I like this. I usually use pva and sawdust mixed into a paste and then smear it in.

[@KarlBunker]

Another variable you could take a quick look at to decide on your own if it makes a difference is using coarse sawdust (from sawing) vs. using "wood flour" -- fine sawdust from sanding. I'm also like to hear how well the little puppy with the pink bow worked at filling cracks. Not too well, I'm guessing.

[@bruceallen3643]

One other technique that I've had some success with is to use a mixture of your finish (instead of glue) and sawdust. It negates any concerns about what finish you will apply.

[@truenorthpositivejuniorten4628]

Omg let’s go for a run and talk about this nerdy stuff!!!!

[@jesseterpstra5472]

For what it's worth, the way I have used with most success is to fill the gap with titebond III and to sand it while the glue is still wet. I find that the dust that comes off a hand saw is too coarse to mix with the glue effectively, whereas sanding wet glue both produces fine enough wood dust and makes the mixing action at the same time. Titebond III has a pretty short open time as well compared to yellow glue or white glue which makes it work better for this. It works well for any species. Also, one variable could be to use the wax putty stick AFTER finish has been applied and completely cured, then you can scrape off excess with something gentle like a plastic card and then go over it with a rag to get the rest. But the caveat with this is that my experience is with film finishes like lacquer, not with oil finishes

[@clockman45]

i think you are a mist placed scientist and have escape from the lab. OR just a very intelligent person with to much tine to think of stuff. ether way i am glad i invested in your channel.

[@FunkyKikuchiyo]

Coming from guitar repair where CA glues are used and overused, you always have to be aware it is going to darken things and move down grain. The crayon seems to depend on how close the color is, and how lucky you are that the factory color matches your wood. This one didn’t seem to be a good match, it might be nice to see how that plays out when the match is closer. Another trick that is far more valuable with darker or already finished woods is using PVA and tinting it with a water based marker (like Tombow) to match a color, but that might be a bit far off from what you’re up to.

[@wryonion]

I actually use standard/schoolhouse Elmers white glue and mix a putty. The glue itself drys clear and I’ve found the dust doesn’t darken as much when I apply a stain your finish. I’ve also use a needle/pin to score lines in it before it’s dry to mimic the missing grain a little too. Makes it a little less noticeable IMO because there isn’t an abrupt break in the grain.

[@damonmoran9462]

Great job, I love this kind of stuff! Your original chisel test persuaded me to buy several narex richter chisels.

[@zagstudios5511]

One thought of mine is, especially with cross grain gaps, if a wood has wild or flashy grain, sawdust might look better, but with woods with milder grains, putties might look better. Great job with this one, James! I was blown away by the chisel test and I can’t wait to see what you do with gap-filling.

[@karl_alan]

Makes me feel better that I usually am using normal wood glue for this application. Thanks, as always, for doing these types of test for us.

[@benjamindebellis6664]

my initial thought with the test in the video was that you used actual "saw" dust. Which is fairly coarse. I can see how that would visibly appealing. Normally, I have used sanding dust. Like you, I don't care for it visually. I just put a glob of glue on a piece of paper, add dust, mix and apply. Where, you apply the glue and put the saw dust on top. I'm thinking, the latter is the way to go. A higher ratio of wood to glue as opposed to glue saturated wood. GEEZE I hope that made sense.

[@dhc1802]

I love your spreadsheets. My only comment would be to try to identify the most common real world application of filling gaps. Maybe dovetails, or maybe bad but joints or slightly off miters.

[@giannis88hoplite]

Hello there. A few thoughts. Generally darker woods are easier to match. For instance you can hide almost anything on ebony with any of the glues used in the video and ebony dust. It can be okay in dark rosewood but it starts to get tricky in mahogany and deteriorates as it gets lighter. With filler you have the advantage that you know the final color from the beginning. But obviously you have to match it with the color of the finished wood, be it oil or varnish or whatever. I would suggest also trying white glue not only yellow PVA glue. It tends to dry a little less dark with the wood dust in my experience, and usually the filled part looks darker. In some cases I use epoxy not only with saw dust but it can be done with color bases. So I guess that provides a vast template of colors if you have those bases. Final thought, we usually use dust from the same wood that we’re working with. Often I just poor some glue and sand it immediately before the glue dries and that will fill a small gap. But when color matching is very important it is wiser to use dust from a lighter colored species of wood because it will darken with glue. Which is to say: more variables!

[@chaseryan9571]

Love it! I don't think I fill cracks the same way ever. I Lmost always come up with a method. Everything from rolling shavings really tight to chiseling a flat chunk off and shoving in a Crack. I try to use Hyde glue and BLO or Rubio because I don't want to make any trash, so something I've been on the hunt for is a planable filler that's compostable. I compost my shavings or turn them into biochar, so I've been so curious about a filler that can be planed and card scraped but not be worried about epoxy or pva glue ending up in my compost. Or ways of just letting the Crack be there with a sort of bright turquoise or green filler. I stained sawdustbright green with alcohol dye mixed it with pva and smeared it into cracks in my work bench, and I kinda like these vague and random little green lines at the edge of a through tendon or some checking. For the in depth video, let's see how the different fixes respond to hand tools! Titebond 3 can sort of tear and get rough if it's too thick and Hyde glue is kinda brittle. I would love a big data sheet like the chisel test video.

[@brianmaddy6713]

I'd like to see you try mixing lacquer and fine sawdust.

[@slowrelease395]

For the bigger test, I'd go for a softwood, a diffused pore wood, a ring pore wood and something oily as a fourth. On a side note, I'd greatly enjoy a video about those different types of situational gap fixing techniques you mentioned in the start. And thanks for a great video! Love your stuff!

[@tysonleyba430]

@3:30 you forgot to do the evil giggle James :)

[@clevesteam79]

Can you try timber mate and some different fillers? Also you could try sanding before and after glue dries. Thanks for this video.

[@sjlarue1]

Elmer's Glue...the OG glue, it was used before wood glue. And some sort of clear glue...so only sawdust is effecting the color.

[@tephradem]

I'd also wonder about hiding, or perhaps using a gap filler to have obvious contrast or gaps caused by accidentally drillng through a board. Thanks for sharing your results! It's really interesting!

[@emmakun]

Elmer's Wood Glue Max supposedly contains wood fibers which may have played a role to make it look better than the others. It would be interesting to see how it stands against the 3 main titebonds (original, II and III), since they have different properties and cure to slightly different shades as well.

[@ronniesolomon5235]

Great video James!

[@warrenmunn3224]

Only 3.5 minutes to say "I see a big spreadsheet". Well done James I thunk one of the tests would have to be on cracks/splits in boards, trying to fill them versus trying to close them with each of the glues. Which glue closes the cracks best and which fills them best (I doubt one would be best for both).

[@ragmana]

The location of the gap probably matters. The glue I had voted for looked great on a clean cut perpendicular to the apparent grain as shown in the survey. That same glue would look terrible on an uneven gap within a dovetail.

[@OswaldoAgurto]

Great job! It will be interesting to see the testing. From my experience, there is not a one solution to hide imperfection. My criteria to choose the filler I need is: 1. Based on the finish. Will it have any sort of finish on top? Will it be finished in lacquer, oil based barnish or water based? They all highlight wood grain in different ways, even changing the wood color. The filler can look perfect with no finish, then it appears awfully after finishing 2. Will the wood be dyed before finishing? Will the dye be oil, water or alcohol based? Woods from different species absorb dye in different ways and after applying dye or even the finish on top, the result will change. 3. How quickly it dries up. Glue filler is not always a great choice for that and we are usually against time :( It will be interesting to see the results. I normally avoid fillers and choose to fill it with wood. Or just test with the dye and finish I will use (and this given the wood color is somewhat uniform)

[@jgo5707]

Loving these analysis videos. Far different from the typical woodworking content, but incredibly useful to see done.

[@morrisonsusan]

I use a lot of walnut and maple, so testing those would be of interest to me. I have been lusting after some white oak to use for projects, but even though I can source it here, it is so expensive in my area (Central Florida). Red oak is prevalent here at a price I could afford, but I do not like it, so I've stuck with a few exotics and walnut and maple domestics.

[@kyriakosstavrou478]

I have tried pva + sawdust on ash wood. Finishing it was a disaster. I had to sand the project and refinish it with water based finish. There is no point on loosing sleep over some gaps, when the finish that you apply will make them pop. That's a subject i would like to learn more about.

[@fred1barb]

I've used PVA, Titebond usually, for years . Almost always trying for a max amount of sawdust and a minimum amount of glue. Then sanding the patch to expose as much actual wood surface as possible before finishing. My grandfather, who could make pine look like mahogany and worked as both carpenter and a shipwright, used hide glue and depending on the gap or damage he might mix in some larger bits larger than sawdust. . As i discovered he even filled nail and brad holes this way. He never used a wax filler. But his preference for appearance was to let in a patch or use a shim, matching species and figure if possible.

[@J.A.Smith2397]

Great job

[@edm00se]

This is going to be interesting results, I think. Great job per usual. What I’d heard works best was a combination of a standard “yellow” PVA based wood glue with really fine dust from the matching wood, not rubbed onto the surface, but mixed into the glue to make more of a custom matched wood filler.

[@TadTheTinker]

The only thing I can think of to throw out there is to mix the sawdust with the glue then apply to the gap. Just mashing it on top of the glue could create the problem of the sawdust being removed completely by the sanding.

[@sfshilo]

I think my best results are when I focus on getting the glue into the gap and make sure I have as much wood dust/pieces on top of that. It prevents that glue from interacting with the finishes. Also, I think that is where pva excels. It doesn't setup too fast, it tends to sink into the wood not sit on top, especially is you wipe with a damp paper towel.

[@googlesbitch]

I have been using the fine sawdust collected by a ROS or a finish sander and mixing it with carpenter glue until it's a fine thick slurry paste and then dampen wood with a moist rag just before applying it on with a putty knife. Gaps seem to be less visible and filler bonds consistently will less occurrence of filler popping out. Some of the softer wax type fillers are more prone to denting since it's softer then the wood.

[@cjoe5977]

i’d like to see rose wood from hand plane totes and knobs

[@nolanstevenson3510]

I think the most important factor when hiding a gap is how well does it blend in to the existing wood

[@kencarlile1212]

I would love to know about filling worm holes, although it's a little outside the parameters of this.

[@OswaldoAgurto]

You are on point here. Hide slightly off joints is somewhat easy compared to some huge worm hole that appear in your wood after you cut it. It's a difficult topic I usually solve by making a patch with wood from the same piece or very similar. It ends up being visible, but not so offensive.

[@MrPJM22]

I’m anxious to see what solutions may come out of this. I find any glue based filler to be visible, especially on long grain per your examples. As you mentioned, it works better against end grain as the “filler” blends to the darker end grain color when finish is applied. In cases where it really needs to blend well, I have used a light colored epoxy or clear shellac melt stick and then carefully colored it with powdered dyes mixed with the finish used. A lot depends on the final finish/final sheen/amount of grain, etc. Good luck with the experiment. Look forward to seeing the results.

[@MRichK]

I would want 3 or 4 different woods with different shades and oilyness. Then standardize the sawdust maybe? or fine or not. Plus at least gel and thin CA glue. White vs yellow PVA. Also at an angle to the grain like the angle on dovetail. Then light and dark finishes/stains? Hah hah!

[@MCsCreations]

Fantastic work, James! Thanks for the testing! 😃 I guess, in the end, it's going to depend a lot on the wood. For some woods maybe PVA is better, but for others... Who knows. Either way, CA shines for me when you have a small crack that doesn't need to be filled, just glued back together. Another point is how visible is the wood grain. As more visible, the more details, harder it's going to be. You know? I made a wooden bluetooth speaker a while ago and the wood I used for the front and back faces were just plain red... And I accidentally cut too big a hole, so I had to put a small piece of wood there and put PVA glue mixed with wooden dust. It just disappeared! You can't tell where it is. But otherwise... It might be a good idea even mixing dust from different species, with different colors. You know? But, well... Have fun experimenting! 😬 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@j.c.linden]

I think the samples have to have stain applied. From reading, I would guess that PVA is likely to leave a lighter high light around the fill area while hide glue will stain? And then you'll have more variables because of the water based, oil based, and alcohol dye stains...... should be interesting smile. And does it matter if you make a paste or just shove in saw dust after the glue goes in or do you need to actively sand over the wet glue? I suspect different methods, when stained will have different results also.

[@margaretkrantz1469]

As a relatively new woodworker, I have lots of practice fixing mistakes. I think I have found that I can fill smaller gaps with sawdust mixed with white PVA glue (Elmers school glue) and it won't dry with the visible pigment of wood glue. Could you test that? Also, I think mixing the sawdust colors a bit seems to make these repairs less noticeable, at least in ash. Could you test that, too?

[@dpmeyer4867]

I would add......add a wooden 'sliver' to fill in the gap....filling wood gaps with wood I like to save my cutoffs and trimming pieces in a container until the project is completed in case I have to patch something....I figure the wood would 'match' better. My two cents like the channel.

[@dpmeyer4867]

although I understand you are testing glue..............

[@wilsonlema842]

I use white PVA glue and sawdust with great success ,have you thought about testing it? The glue doesn’t add any coloring to my mistake. Looking forward to your next video.

[@Apillicus]

I've got a few bottles of unopened titebond translucent if you'd like to test it as well

[@timothymallon]

In your next test, put end grain next to side grain to see the difference when your 4 options are used. It might help since I think, most often the joints with problems will be dovetail and box/finger joints

[@WoodByWrightHowTo]

In that case, I'd use a wedge of wood. It works far better than any putty ever will

[@timothymallon]

@@WoodByWrightHowTo Good point

[@timothymallon]

1:00 James, you're going to put the stuffed puppy in the joints aren't you?

[@alans1816]

I hate to add to your variables, but end grain finishes darker than side grain, so I was taught to mix in sawdust of a lighter color to make it match better. It's possible this is the reason PVA worked best: it prevented the darkening by finish.

[@thewalnutwoodworker6136]

Spreadsheets!

[@karl_alan]

I'm as much if a fan of data as you are. I honestly would love to see this with a few different finishes (maybe BLO compared to shellac, lacquer & water based poly) to see if the finish makes a difference. As far as woods go though, doing some of the standards like maple, oak, mahogany, cherry & walnut (& maybe ash) makes the most sense to me. If you wanted to go more exotic for a few oddball options to really test it, it seems sepele, padauk and purple heart are all common enough and/or could yield interesting data.

[@Zoteosophos]

I've always been curious about how the saw dust is introduced into the gap effects the finish, the ways I have seen are sawdust then glue, glue then sawdust, and making a sawdust glue putty almost and pushing it in then. In terms of wood, most common I come across (stateside at least) are oak, walnut, cedar, and birch, but I would be curious about how hardwood fairs vs softwoods.

[@TheOlsonOutfit]

I've only achieved great results with this technique when matching END grain, like a dovetail.

[@mikebeacom4883]

It’s a simple test- maybe run it with project scrap and whatever glue is at hand?

[@skoomasteve6144]

Good morning!

[@WoodByWrightHowTo]

Congrats on first.

[@jimbo2629]

I find sanding powder gives enormously better results than fine saw dust/chips. The latter are too big particles.

[@kencarlile1212]

Oh good, I'm not alone with the glue/sawdust thing not working...

[@DonsWoodies]

I've only ever used PVA glue and sawdust but always thought maybe I should be using Hide glue. Based on this small test, maybe knot. I think you've set yourself quite a challenge here. So many variables. :-( A possible variable would be if you're trying to hide a combination joint of, say, walnut and maple. Would that make a difference which method works best?

[@uwyphi]

Would it be possible to make the crayon ourselves using the sawdust to hopefully match the wood color ?

[@markbaldwin975]

Next time please introduce your assistant with the pretty little pink bow.

[@DavidWhite]

The big question should be what it look like with finish on it. Glues really can change the look of wood

[@matthewwright57]

I have had terrible luck with the minwax crayons, the timbermate wood filler finishes a lot better.

[@matthewwright57]

Also hard wax oils dont like to finish over PVA glue, its much worse than any other finish Ive found.

[@rjtumble]

So the chisel project wasn't enough? I think we can officially reclassify you as a "glutton for punishment" at least with regards to spreadsheets. Good for us

[@WoodByWrightHowTo]

Lol you should see my plane test videos and glue tests. Lots more I want to do. Spreadsheets are just too much fun to leave alone.

[@romanprekop6613]

I would skip different woods, and focus on difference between putty and sprinkling sawdust

[@lyster1ne681]

You know, It’d be a lot easier to simply never make any mistakes.

[@jesseterpstra5472]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

[@mischievouswoodworks2325]

Great video, I do have to ask why you have 2 watches on though

[@WoodByWrightHowTo]

One is for ultra running and the other is for Fitbit and encouraging the family

[@mischievouswoodworks2325]

@@WoodByWrightHowTo interesting, either way thank you for this video and many more. I do hybrid work now but when I started I made a point to get proficient with hand tool only first that way no matter what I could finish a project and I learned alot from you, including alot of dad jokes lol

[@karlgoebeler1500]

Just give the wood a "Wedgie" LOL Like you reccomended

[@ChrisHarne]

Has the updated test occurred yet?

[@WoodByWrightHowTo]

no that one is on the backburner for now.

[@seanrobinson203]

hey, just a quick question. im currently learning (self teaching) working with white flat sawn oak and as i had cut some pins for a dove tail joint when i dry fitted the joint i found the board split on me along the grain. is there a way to prevent this from happening? like would having a light spray with water help before working the wood. as a side note before i started the dove tail joint i had resawn the wood and planed to 3/8 as that is required to get the most out of the wood while remaining strong enough for my practice project. any advice would be great. thanks in advance.

[@WoodByWrightHowTo]

it sounds like it split when trying to put them together. That is usually due to the joint being too tight and forcing it together. with wood that thin you want it to go together with light hand pressure. If you have to hit it then it is too tight.

[@seanrobinson203]

@@WoodByWrightHowTo ok, thank you for getting back to me with haste. Trying to also make my cuts and chisel work neat and straight always still ending up with an excessive gap in a few areas. yet when i watch yourself and others on her it looks clean and so easy lol.

[@andrewmortimer3317]

Couple thoughts from an amateur: would a hand tool woodworker have enough ultra-fine sawdust? I always have power sanders to get that fine powder but if someone is using planes and card scrapers will they need to intentionally sand to get dust? In examples like dovetails can the wood be steamed with an iron to swell the fibers and close the gap? Fwiw my grandpa made lots of furniture and used sawdust and pva to fill and taught me to always wipe along it with a wet cloth to minimize the area finish wouldn’t stick to. I look forward to the full test!

[@chrisdamico6719]

I use a couple of fine-toothed hand saws that make some rather fine dust (though admittedly not as fine as from sandpaper). General texture is still fine and perhaps more importantly even. As a comparison, maybe something like beach sand, whereas sandpaper dust might be more like talcum powder.

[@JeanMinutile]

To be fair I would not be that interested in the results as I do not like to use this technique (as you said yourself for me its usually not worth the effort). When I'm making poor joints I either live with it (most of the time) redo the pieces (almost never) change the design to add something to hide the problem or highlight another part of it so that nobody will look at the part I'm not really happy with. For context I'm a hobbyist so I only make things for myself or family and therefore do not have to deal with customer satisfaction which might change the way you look at those things.

[@daniel_bohrer]

So in short, hide glue doesn't hide anything at all!

[@jonyork999]

it's hide glue. literally in the name. Hide the mistake :p

[@pedropereira3793]

I cant understand why the hide glue didnt win xD

[@bobt2522]

I liked the video but don't get caught up over- analysing the problem. I don't think your testing can account for enough of the variables to give an absolute best solution. Whatever your results, it will still be necessary for us to test each repair technique on our specific piece of wood. You could limit your variables to species (5-6 common ones), grain direction (2-3 directions), repair technique, and finish (BLO, shellac, paint, etc.) That is still a lot of testing but it could give a good first guess on which technique to try first.

[@tungsten_carbide]

I'm sure someone has said this already but in case not, the only way to get a fair comparison fill to fill is to have more consistency in the filler material, so (and sorry for the pedantry here) while it is commonly referred to as "glue and sawdust" this means _sanding dust_ while it's commonly referred to as "glue and sawdust" not actual sawing waste. I'm certain the hide glues will come out better with dust used and not chips. And also the filler material should be mixed separately and then applied, unless you're dealing with hairline cracks where the sanding-in method can work so well (especially along-the-grain cracks of course). In practice I totally agree with you that no matter how many times "you get a perfect colour match" gets repeated these fills always stand out when I've tried them. And I've seen examples posted as good colour matches that to my eyes (and I'm sure yours too) were _clearly_ evident. From a distance this is because they're so much darker than long-grain surfaces - like end grain, as you noted - so I have attempted many times to use a filler made from either a different (lighter) species, or a mixture of the dust from the current species and a dot or two of white paint, or by adding some white/light powders (including plain flour!). I still try this sometimes, but it's so hard to hit the right target. And anyway when you do look close fills are 'dead', without any chatoyance etc. so while you can trick the eye at a distance if you do manage to get a very close colour match you're never going to fool anyone looking closely.

[@kennethspeed2019]

And the answer is! You're a glutton for punishment. LOL! A cross-grain mistake is going to show almost always. One could use alcohol and dye stain to paint grain line across the cut before finishing. Not that I have ever done this because, of course, I never make mistakes! LOL!

[@mattvonzep3453]

You should probably just do the same with walnut maple and oak. I bet the PVA worked the best in this instance just because of the color of the wood. Like the hide glue might work better in the walnut and ca in the maple. Maybe. Either way I’m happy you did this. The trick never really worked for me so I thought I was doing something wrong but looks like you got similar results.

[@Ramplcro]

What woods? Ebony, blackwood, flame maple, snakewood, wenge, purpleheart, rosewood, ironwood, redwood ...Just don't do it on pine, cherry, oak, poplar and similar 😁

[@samwise098]

testing your wife's patients... Shouldn't you leave that to the hospital staff where she works?