What is the Lutheran view of baptism?

EPISODE #28: Ted asks about what Lutherans believe about baptism. Rod clarifies the details of what Lutherans believe baptism is and what it does and how that ties in to assurance and confidence for the believer.
SHOW NOTES:
Support the show - www.1517.org/donate
Subscribe to the podcast now on your favorite podcast software:
podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast...
podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0...
===
/ talkswithdadrod
/ talkswithdadrod
/ talkswithdadrod

[@dreinschmidt]

Love this. Gone is the the bad news that it all depends on us, that we have to make a decision for Christ. In the waters of baptism, God has already made his decision about us. That is truly good news. Thanks be to God!

[@mulkster39]

Amen brother! Outside of us, all we do is receive His gifts!

[@Dilley_G45]

God has made the offer all we have to do is receive

[@planetbethie]

God Loves Matter. He said so for a week straight. Spiritual, Natural, Beautiful Way of God.

[@lc-mschristian5717]

Very well stated. Baptism does what God says it will, imagine that! God's peace be with you all.

[@denny33]

Do another one on baptism!! I never tire of hearing about this topic.

[@newtestamentchristian6932]

Do you know of a scripture that teaches infants are to be baptized? I dont.

[@tedrosenbladt9976]

God's promises are fulfilled in baptism, the gift of faith through the Holy Spirit. "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:39) The Lord seems clear repeatedly that He calls children to Himself, including Acts 2:38 regarding baptism delivering the gift of faith. (And did God give an age limit when He speaks of His promise being for children?) Why do we work so hard to get in the way as the disciples did? How did Jesus speak to the disciples when they tried to prevent the children from coming to Him? It was pretty harsh. When Jesus said, "for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.", He meant it, and it's very condemning of those who would prevent the children from coming to Him.

[@newtestamentchristian6932]

@@tedrosenbladt9976 Are you saying aborted children are in Hellfire? There's no age limit given in Gods word but there is an age when one individual comes to a mental maturity of understanding right from wrong. The gospel must be believed and obeyed. Infants are incapable of doing neither. Therefore they are not accountable to God. You cannot prove that children were ever baptized in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I challenge you to give just one example of an infant being baptized into Christ for the remission of sins. There is not one child in the new testament that were baptized. They are incapable of comprehending the gospel. Only those who can understand are required to obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. *Hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY Him"*

[@mathete9968]

Maybe I should comment at length here. I have been researching a book on this very topic for a few years. I was a former Baptist who became completely and utterly persuaded by the Historic Lutheran doctrine purely by Scripture Alone. The more I tried to prove the Baptist doctrine, especially at the level of the original Greek, the more I saw that each argument of the Baptists fell apart. It's simply astonishing how many texts teach Baptism washes away sins and that Christ washes us clean in Baptism. This is why Baptism saves, by the way. But also it's rather easy to prove infant baptism from Scripture. I disagree that it's not clearly stated. It is if you know the Bible and the Rules of Scripture Exposition.

[@ihiohoh2708]

@@newtestamentchristian6932 Do you know of a Scripture that teaches infants aren't to be baptized? I don't. Let's go back to Exodus 12 in speaking of the Passover a moment. Before one could participate, the participant and all of their household had to be circumcised. Similarly, in Acts 16 and 1 Corinthians 1 we see households and families being baptized at once with no reference to a profession of faith of all participants. What is circumcision and baptism? Circumcision is the sign pointing forward to Jesus. It is the sign of blood and pain, which is of Jesus who bled for us. (Death.) Baptism is the water sign pointing back to Christ representing life. In Colossians 2 we see a relation between circumcision and baptism. Even though circumcision was at times administered to adults, much like baptism, what age was circumcision administered?

[@janicecisco725]

Thank-you......we are borne again by Baptism with the word and water,

[@jasonwright2569]

Hi I wish there were scripture verses referenced, as I’d like to read the verses that go aling with the points being explained. Kind regards, J.

[@keshab9533]

Me too, I started to scroll to see if I could find anyone who put the scriptures in the comments 😊. Be blessed

[@RobertEWaters]

Baptism is how I know that Jesus has made a decision for me.

[@pinkroses135]

Hard to explain to baptists or evangelicals. There's the synergism, sinners prayer and sometimes a fundamentalism going on there. I give up lol. I don't believe it's harder for an adult though since God is doing the work.

[@minketheodora]

You gave me such an important message and answer to my prayer,. I am baby-baptized presbytarian, and lost my church in my theens for a long time, converted into Evangelic church, and they told me, i could only be a member when i was willing to have adult-baptism, and i did not do it, to not betray my baby-baptism,. I could never get a real answer on this question; do i have to be baptized again, when i return to church or choose another faith-doctrine,.? I believed all the time that my baby-baptism was enough but did not knew for sure if it made me born-again, , and most modern churches deny this,. Thank you for your sincere teachings,.

[@mathete9968]

Your question reflects a common enough experience. Unfortunately the (ana) Baptist churches have a very confused abd unbiblical doctrine if Baptism. I was once one of them and i know their arguments. Unfortunately the (ana) Baptist argument sounds plausible to tye mind at surface level. But it actually falls apart at the level of good translation and especially when their "proof texts" are examined from rhe original Greek. I gabe many years of thought abd derp study to this inquiry. And I am convinced by Scripture Alone that the historic Biblical Doctrine of Baptism is preserved only in the Lurheran Church - of all protestant bodies. Even rhe presbyterian teaching is only partially on track. The really amazing thing in John 3:3-10 is that Jesus is not only speaking of Baptism and the New Birth, BUT ALSO proving hos pount from the Old Testament! Jesus challenges Nicodemus thus over this: Are you THE TEACHER of Israel, and you don't know these things? (John 3:10) If Jesus cpypd say this, then the old Testament MUST have taught a NEW BIRTH of Water and the Spirit. Think about it. .... And it does. One of the three chief New Covenant passages treats of this. Then will I sprinkle CLEAN WATER upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, I WILL CLEANSE YOU. A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will PUT MY SPIRIT within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezekiel 36:25-27) The book of Hebrews directky alludes to verse 25 here .... Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, HAVING our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, AND OUR BODIES WASHED WITH - PURE WATER. (Hebrews 10:22) The "PURE WATER" is identical in the ancient Greek Septuagint (LXX) in Ezekiel 36:25 as the Koine Greek text. The words in bith Hebrew and Greek are equally translated "Pure / Clean". And this is important, because the Apostle teaches us that we teach using "Words which the Holy Spirit teaches" (1 Corinthians 2:13). So the Holy Spirit says that our bodies have been WASHED in PURE/ CLEAN WATER. Now Acts 22:16 uses the same greek word for WASHED. Arise and BE BAPTIZED and WASH away your sins But in Ezekiel are a number of salient points. God himself says that HE WILL WASH US. And that he will use WATER to do so. And our bodies wete washed in PURE WATER when we were baptized. Paul writes: And such were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11 The first verb is niddie voice in Greek. "You allowed yoursekves to be WASHED". The other two verbs are entirely passive voice. The washing is nost definitely a reference to Baptsm. So God Himself washes us clean in Baptism. And Jesus says this: If I WASH YOU not, you hast no part with me. (John 13:8) And Paul expressly stayes that it is the Son of God who washes away our sins in Baptism: CHRIST also loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF for it; THAT he might sanctify and CLEANSE it WITH: The WASHING of WATER along with the Word, (Ephesians 5:25-26) Thos is the fulfilment of Ezekiel 36:25 God himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, truly washes away our sins in Bsptism . And in

[@shostycellist]

I would have added that baptism delivers Christ and all His benefits , through "stuff", matter, to be received by faith... "having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith..." Col. 2:12

[@benjamindrexler9635]

I do not come from a Lutheran background, so I ask for a small degree of grace, but I have two initial thoughts: For one, while your experience of being baptized as an infant may perfectly reflect your degree of agency in salvation, it's only true from a certain, limited perspective. Yes, God calls you, but it was a man who baptized you, and the act of washing with water being salvific makes it a work that someone performs. In this sense, you cannot boast in your salvation, but your priest can. The second is in reference to Jesus being baptized and the discussion with Nicodemus. As far as I know, no explanation is given for Jesus' baptism aside from him telling John "to fulfill all righteousness", and that baptism is never brought up again in the epistles like His resurrection is. And John's account of the meeting with Nicodemus focuses not simply on how ludicrous of a statement Jesus was making, but in how Nicodemus was only thinking in earthly terms while Jesus spoke of spiritual things (John 3:7-8). That dynamic reoccurs with the Samaritan woman (John 4:13-14) and again when Jesus is speaking to those he had fed (John 6:26-27). So rather than baptism being important in its earthly, physical qualities, what is of most importance is the living water, the food which endures to everlasting life, rebirth by the Spirit. In Acts 10:44-48, the Holy Spirit comes upon Cornelius' household, and that is pointed to as the proof that they should be baptized; the Holy Spirit did not come upon them simultaneously with their baptism. Aside from those initial thoughts, I have found it interesting that despite the importance of the ordinance of baptism and the care the Luke took to record Paul's baptism, we have no explicit record of any of the other disciples being baptized.

[@mathete9968]

The really amazing thing in John 3:3-10 is that Jesus is not only speaking of Baptism and the New Birth, BUT ALSO proving his pount from the Old Testament! Jesus challenges Nicodemus thus over this: Are you THE TEACHER of Israel, and you don't know these things? (John 3:10) If Jesus could say this, then the old Testament MUST have taught a NEW BIRTH of Water and the Spirit. Think about it. .... And it does. One of the three chief New Covenant passages treats of this. Then will I sprinkle CLEAN WATER upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, I WILL CLEANSE YOU. A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will PUT MY SPIRIT within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezekiel 36:25-27) The book of Hebrews directly alludes to verse 25 here .... Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, HAVING our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, AND OUR BODIES WASHED WITH - PURE WATER. (Hebrews 10:22) The root form, "PURE WATER" is identical in the ancient Greek Septuagint (LXX) in Ezekiel 36:25 as the Koine Greek text. The words in both Hebrew and Greek are equally translated "Pure / Clean". And this is important, because the Apostle teaches us that we teach using "Words which the Holy Spirit teaches" (1 Corinthians 2:13). So the Holy Spirit says that our bodies have been WASHED in PURE/ CLEAN WATER. Now Acts 22:16 uses the same greek word for WASHED. Arise and BE BAPTIZED and WASH away your sins But in Ezekiel there are a number of salient points. God himself says that HE WILL WASH US. And that he will use WATER to do so. And our bodies were washed in PURE WATER when we were baptized. Paul writes: And such were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11 The first verb is middle voice in Greek. "You allowed yourselves to be WASHED". The other two verbs are entirely passive voice. The washing is most definitely a reference to Baptism. So God Himself washes us clean in Baptism. And Jesus says this: If I WASH YOU not, you have no part with me. (John 13:8) And Paul expressly states that it is the Son of God who washes away our sins in Baptism: CHRIST also loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF for it; THAT he might sanctify and CLEANSE it WITH: The WASHING of WATER along with the Word, (Ephesians 5:25-26) This is the fulfilment of Ezekiel 36:25 God himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, truly washes away our sins in Baptism .

[@mathete9968]

The really amazing thing in John 3:3-10 is that Jesus is not only speaking of Baptism and the New Birth, BUT ALSO proving his pount from the Old Testament! Jesus challenges Nicodemus thus over this: Are you THE TEACHER of Israel, and you don't know these things? (John 3:10) If Jesus could say this, then the old Testament MUST have taught a NEW BIRTH of Water and the Spirit. Think about it. .... And it does. One of the three chief New Covenant passages treats of this. Then will I sprinkle CLEAN WATER upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, I WILL CLEANSE YOU. A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will PUT MY SPIRIT within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezekiel 36:25-27) The book of Hebrews directly alludes to verse 25 here .... Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, HAVING our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, AND OUR BODIES WASHED WITH - PURE WATER. (Hebrews 10:22) The root form, "PURE WATER" is identical in the ancient Greek Septuagint (LXX) in Ezekiel 36:25 as the Koine Greek text. The words in both Hebrew and Greek are equally translated "Pure / Clean". And this is important, because the Apostle teaches us that we teach using "Words which the Holy Spirit teaches" (1 Corinthians 2:13). So the Holy Spirit says that our bodies have been WASHED in PURE/ CLEAN WATER. Now Acts 22:16 uses the same greek word for WASHED. Arise and BE BAPTIZED and WASH away your sins But in Ezekiel there are a number of salient points. God himself says that HE WILL WASH US. And that he will use WATER to do so. And our bodies were washed in PURE WATER when we were baptized. Paul writes: And such were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11 The first verb is middle voice in Greek. "You allowed yourselves to be WASHED". The other two verbs are entirely passive voice. The washing is most definitely a reference to Baptism. So God Himself washes us clean in Baptism. And Jesus says this: If I WASH YOU not, you have no part with me. (John 13:8) And Paul expressly states that it is the Son of God who washes away our sins in Baptism: CHRIST also loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF for it; THAT he might sanctify and CLEANSE it WITH: The WASHING of WATER along with the Word, (Ephesians 5:25-26) This is the fulfilment of Ezekiel 36:25 God himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, truly washes away our sins in Baptism .

[@JORGEMACHAD0]

Even in a heretic church? Like if someone in a heretic church is baptised in the name of the trinity this person is instantly born again?

[@tedrosenbladt9976]

Here's the thing to keep in mind. God's word does what He says it does. If someone is baptized in the name of the triune God, does the spiritual condition of the one saying it, or the church/location in which it occurs, overcome the word of God? Are those things more powerful than God's word paired with water? Thankfully, the answer is a resounding 'No!'. The efficacy of the word of God does not depend on us. At all. God fulfills His promises.

[@bigtobacco1098]

Normative, no.... heretic being the key

[@JustAskingQuestions8571]

​@bigtobacco1098 I'm not Catholic, but according to the Catholic Church, a baptism is invalid if performed by a mormon church, even if the words and manner are done correctly. I take it Lutherins disagree with Catholics on this? (I'm interested in Lutherinism)

[@bigtobacco1098]

@@JustAskingQuestions8571 unsure how Lutherans feel... baptisms by cults are generally not recognized

[@angprincesa3793]

When baptized in the name of the Triune God one is born again. So there's no need to say the acceptance prayer? Like I accept you Jesus into my life. Be my Lord and my Saviour? Thanks 😊

[@1517org]

If you're treating the phrase like a key in a lock, as though you have the power to prevent the Holy Spirit doing His work in you without your explicit permission, Lutherans would say no. “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God” - Ephesians 2:8; Scripture is clear that faith is something we receive as pure gift, it is not dependent on us in any way. - Ted

[@angprincesa3793]

@@1517org thanks for this clarification.

[@billwinter6092]

@@1517org Grace is the free gift if God not faith, otherwise Jesus could not have rebuked his disciples for lack of faith and also say "when the son of man returns will he find faith on the earth".

[@Bruiser48]

Nice. Brewski! Very Lutheran. 😂

[@mathete9968]

The really amazing thing in John 3:3-10 is that Jesus is not only speaking of Baptism and the New Birth, BUT ALSO proving hos pount from the Old Testament! Jesus challenges Nicodemus thus over this: Are you THE TEACHER of Israel, and you don't know these things? (John 3:10) If Jesus could say this, then the old Testament MUST have taught a NEW BIRTH of Water and the Spirit. Think about it. .... And it does. One of the three chief New Covenant passages treats of this. Then will I sprinkle CLEAN WATER upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, I WILL CLEANSE YOU. A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will PUT MY SPIRIT within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezekiel 36:25-27) The book of Hebrews directly alludes to verse 25 here .... Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, HAVING our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, AND OUR BODIES WASHED WITH - PURE WATER. (Hebrews 10:22) The root form, "PURE WATER" is identical in the ancient Greek Septuagint (LXX) in Ezekiel 36:25 as the Koine Greek text. The words in both Hebrew and Greek are equally translated "Pure / Clean". And this is important, because the Apostle teaches us that we teach using "Words which the Holy Spirit teaches" (1 Corinthians 2:13). So the Holy Spirit says that our bodies have been WASHED in PURE/ CLEAN WATER. Now Acts 22:16 uses the same greek word for WASHED. Arise and BE BAPTIZED and WASH away your sins But in Ezekiel there are a number of salient points. God himself says that HE WILL WASH US. And that he will use WATER to do so. And our bodies were washed in PURE WATER when we were baptized. Paul writes: And such were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11 The first verb is middle voice in Greek. "You allowed yourselves to be WASHED". The other two verbs are entirely passive voice. The washing is most definitely a reference to Baptism. So God Himself washes us clean in Baptism. And Jesus says this: If I WASH YOU not, you have no part with me. (John 13:8) And Paul expressly states that it is the Son of God who washes away our sins in Baptism: CHRIST also loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF for it; THAT he might sanctify and CLEANSE it WITH: The WASHING of WATER along with the Word, (Ephesians 5:25-26) This is the fulfilment of Ezekiel 36:25 God himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, truly washes away our sins in Baptism .

[@newtestamentchristian6932]

Give one example of an infant baptism in the Holy Bible?

[@1517org]

When God says that "The promise is for you and your children" when He tells us to be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit, give me one example in the Holy Bible where there is an age limit on that? - Ted

[@newtestamentchristian6932]

@@1517org if your reffering to Acts 2:38-39. Notice who obeyed the gospel that day. THOSE WHO COULD UNDERSTAND THE SERMON THAT PETER WAS PREACHING. You didn't answer my first question. Now I have another, where in Acts chapter 2 were there children obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ? That promise is given to all who will obey Him, Hebrews 5:9 " And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." Can a child understand sin? Can a child understand the gospel? How can a child obey the gospel when they are without understanding?

[@newtestamentchristian6932]

@@1517org please try and defend your doctrine that nowhere is taught in sacred scripture. Give just one example of infant baptism.

[@newtestamentchristian6932]

@@1517org Sir, I hope and pray you give up being a lutheran. And become a christian.

[@1517org]

@@newtestamentchristian6932 You didn't answer my question. Next, show me in the Holy Bible where Understanding is required before the gift of the Holy Spirit can be given (which, regarding obedience, is faith in Christ, which according to Romans 4:5 is counted as righteousness)? - Ted