What is the Point of Avant-Garde Art? (Death Grips, The Holy Mountain, Comme Des Garcons)

[@Monabirdy]

For me avant-garde is the materialization of dreams and the previously unseen pure abstraction of consciousness. It is free from the restrictions, conventions, and physical laws we expect to see, opening a window back to pure childlike wonder. I like how this plays into the fashion influence and references to shockingly unedited creativity for a more familiar/commercial edit- showing how ideas form first in a “tabula rasa”/blank state than are engineered, edited, expanded for this world.

[@nym5qu17]

I like this definition! To me I would say I have a similar understanding of it, where it operates outside of the zeitgiest in varying capacities. It doesnt usually follow the typical format of how art movements are created.

[@daemondost7168]

I've always described avant-garde as your subconscious on psychedelics.

[@rafi9594]

Well said

[@James-pb8xu]

the way you described sounds like a node to surreal art as well

[@goyonman9655]

"Pure abstraction of of conciousness" Meaningless combination of words

[@gaze5907]

I've always loved weird, unsettling, experimental things. Its just something I've naturally always loved since I was a child. Idk it gives me chills, It sparks my imagination and stimulates my brain in all the right places

[@goyonman9655]

Nah It just indulges your narcissism And makes you feel special for doing so

[@tanjeeschuan4999]

​@@goyonman9655how so? Don't everyone wants to feel special? From your peers, your friends, family, no one wants to be unnoticeable among them. So what's wrong with wanting to feel special? Assuming that your take on liking avent garde art is right, which I also disagree

[@caylalikescats]

Avant-Garde is very fulfilling to me because it's like getting to see the extreme intrusive imaginative thoughts we have actually come to life instead of getting thrown away during conception. Getting to see what happens when ideas don't get immediately rationalized and placed against guidelines makes the 5 year old in me excited. This discussion somehow reminds of when I used to teach people how to play instruments and before I would tell them how to play correctly I would see what weird noises came about naturally. A lot of times these noises were similar to multiphonic techniques that you technically aren't supposed to focus on until years later. Cool stuff happens when rules are disregarded.

[@calistacisneros]

This is such an amazing comment! Thank you for it

[@badwiki777]

There's so much truth to what you're saying, for me personally it goes back to some ideology that I heard where they'd said that the mind is a chamber that only you have insight to, so naturally the avant-gardeness of thoughts comes from refining abstractions/imagination.

[@caylalikescats]

@@calistacisneros no problem fellow internet human!

[@caylalikescats]

@@badwiki777 ahh that's a good way to put it

[@prajwaljayaraj5887]

Thank you so much for commenting it

[@Taras-oj4tf]

To me, avant garde is just pure, unfiltered emotion. That’s why I love it so much. It’s the artist spitting out their insides. It doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t follow rules, but it makes you feel things, and often things much more nuanced than traditional approaches.

[@abbottcallum]

Omg, Animal Collective, Death Grips, Marina Abramovic and the Holy Mountain in one video, im in awe! Really interesting to delve into non-fashion inspiration here as artists are always taking from what the see and experience. I am an artist myself, some could even say my work is ‘avant-garde’ but aside from that I liked how you described it as pushing the limits of a particular genre. I love crazy out there fashion because it seems unwearable in the real world. That is the point. It is an art form like anything else, clothing is just another medium of expression, regardless of whether you can see yourself in it or not. Keep pushing the boundaries Bliss, I enjoyed this one very much. Oh, and everyone, do what he says and watch the Holy Mountain, it is a genius film and very thought provoking indeed. X

[@Becausing]

I don't really feel like Animal Collective fit in here- it's just psychedelia.

[@holstonmatt]

animal collective is just psychedelia if i made the video i would replace animal collective with a artist like mr bungle

[@rashedulkabir6227]

@@holstonmatt Can you tell me what is the movie at 2:08

[@lobstercashtv]

@@rashedulkabir6227 hi! It’s the 1977 Japanese horror movie “House”. There’s also an American film franchise of the same name, so make sure that you’re watching the original Japanese film and not the newer American ones.

[@rashedulkabir6227]

@@lobstercashtv Is it avant-garde movie?

[@laurao6314]

As an art student who is very interested in the avant-garde to me it's about trying to rethink assumptions and allowing space to just experiment (as was talked about in the video). When I think about classical avant garde art I think about Dada, a movement that brought so many ideas so much and rethought about the art process. They invented performance art, and were some of the first to be alright with allowing chance to influence what they made, instead of it being based on precision and meticulous making. It also heavily influenced the surrealist movement. I'm really interested in this work because it challenges my notions of what makes "good art" and makes the art world into something more playful. If I had to guess why people (including myself to some degree I think) make avant garde art it's because they need to process through an idea, it's a way of making that isn't based on impressing an audience as much as experiencing the process of making, redefining the boundaries of what constitutes art and getting out the ideas stuck in your head. Even surrealism, which I think a lot of people would see as being some of the most unintelligible artwork was often based on notions of Fruedian psychology, which placed a huge amount of importance in understanding the subconscious. Although I think many of these artists would be honoured that their art inspired others, I think the main goal is often in better understanding the world in ways that diverge from mainstream thinking. Which, I suppose could be interpreted as their desire to inspire people with new ideas too, but again I don't think that's the main goal. But also, not an art history major and just going off of the thoughts on my head so it's all just theory :)

[@_Dr.PepperPHD]

Totally totally agree, just because a piece of art's intentionality isn't super scrutable to mainstream audiences, draws on influences outside the mainstream or is motivated more intuitively doesn't mean the intentionality isn't there, or that the art has no standalone usefulness outside being a point of reference for other art. Love how that can fly in the face of stuffy art world values and be fun and cool and good in totally radical ways :))

[@bahar.motamedi]

Hello, I don't know if you know the meaning of what has been printed on your shirt..maybe the readers of the comments don't, SO as an Iranian lemme explain: It's Farsi aka persian and it says "Prevention of blindness." Also keep up the good work🙌🏼🌝💘

[@Ellectricskull]

I find it really reductive to look at avant-garde as an inspiration guide for others to come and take elements of it into more conventional or socially acceptal creation's. Avant-garde art (if it's good anyway) are finished and complete works that push foward the art medium they are in. Sure they inspire future artists and some elements of it may merge into the mainstream but that's not the point of avant-garde it should exist for itself. It's worth noting that most celebrated art and artists were considered avant-garde at some point in time. Edit: Asking what is the point of the avant-garde is missing the point. A very important concept in aesthetics and a certain definition of art is Kant's “art for art’s sake" a mode of approaching art in The Critique of Judgement (1790). He Declares content, subject matter, and any other external demands obsolete, Kant argued the purpose of art is to be “purposeless”. This means art is just an exploration of pure form. I understand that coming from fashion this definition doesn't make much sense because fashion has an inherent purpose but for Kant fashion, architecture, design, culinary and other forms that had an inherent purpose weren't art as well as any art with political agenda or concrete purpose. Of course, I don't fully agree with this view but the concept of art for art’s sake is very important to understand the avant-garde and I think the designers you mention are trying to bring that Kantian aesthetic philosophy into fashion. They are trying to push forward the formal qualities of the medium, questioning what clothes can be and disregarding any need for functionality, conformity, or purpose.

[@eythanamiller4199]

I felt that way as well as far as it being mostly an inspiration feeling reductive.

[@vince1987]

I just search avant-garde in youtube and your video popped up, no regrets. You learn something everyday. I started painting a few months ago, i kinda want to make my paintings "avant-garde". This video gave me a lot of ideas.

[@gorikbellemans341]

Hey Bliss! Thank you for opening up this conversation on avant-garde art and the purpose of pushing boundaries within and across art forms. I'm a contemporary dance student who practices performance and makes his own performances as well. I believe your case for avant-garde being a collection of ideas and creating lexicon for others to work upon and be inspired by is a very very valid point. We recently discussed the term "contemporary" at school and our teacher made the point of contemporary art fooling itself into creating newness inside of a vacuum (not relating anymore to outside world, other and previous art currents) and an obsession with originality that does not stem from influences by others. This was based on the context of contemporary dance and these texts: "What is the meaning of contemporary?" by Mårten Spångberg, "The Contemporaneity of Contemporary Art" by Juliane Rebentisch and "not quite - not right" by Ana Vujanović. Now, for my two cents. I believe that conceptual, avant-garde art definitely can go into territory that is weird for the sake of being weird, however even in those cases I don't see why that would devalue an art work. Art that pushes boundaries of traditional lexicon, tendencies and structures that it utilises, always has the potential to make the observer question the very thing they are used to seeing and why they might have an adverse reaction to artists stepping out of those traditions, yet still claiming to be inside of the same field of art. Avant-garde art is one of those streams, in my opinion, that create an actually individual vocabulary or manner of execution in order to make other artists think of how to introduce those notions in other ways, to maybe someday have them become accepted customs and traditions to then build on, critique or reshape further. Furthermore, to an audience, the way you have to inevitably struggle or work your way through a "weird" piece of art (to understand meanings, correlate seemingly unrelated ideas, make sense of why things are placed in a specific order and timing, etc.) always teaches you something of the references, experiences and preconceptions you hold within you. Those pieces are a journey of self-discovery and reflection so to speak. To try and view them in abstraction, and not relate them to your experience is often damaging to the message the work is able to convey. We try to look at art as if it has to tell us something, but I find that we can decide on the meaning ourselves if we allow for it to take on the meaning we want it to or gave it upon first, second, third... viewing. Lastly, these works also require an active engagement (from other artists and audience!!) to see what relations and thoughts they provoked in others. Having talks about these works, how you experienced them, what attracted your senses, what frustrated you, what ideas they brought to you, etc. can reveal so much of the art back to you and allows for the work to become a sketch for you to build upon and take ownership over. We always exist in relation to others and many overlapping pasts, simultaneously that does not have to take away anyone's singularity or personal way of putting things together. The two can and always do coexist, however frustrating that might be. I don't know if I actually responded or created coherent thoughts in this comment, but at least that's what your video brought up in me. Thanks for being so adamant on opening a discourse in these comments, I will now lose myself in others' contributions. ciao! much love! see you next time!

[@fynnsen116]

we need an understanding rei kawakubo video!! thanks bliss, for everything!

[@guzduk1751]

The Holy Mountain by Jodorowsky is one of my ultimate sources of inspiration as a designer, the amount of nonsensical but genius, as you said openness of interpretation is fascinating. Also his work on the first take of Dune I recommend for you to investigate too ! Also an amazing source of inspiration! Very excited that you saw this take on a protest on the conquistadores of the Americans and the ramifications of it. As my personal perspective towards The holy mountain. Bless your curious mind and love your stuff !!

[@bernmahan1162]

Sorry to disagree except I'm not... I watched it and found it a bit perverse and very up its own arse. And I like weird films.

[@katienavarro2807]

Hi! I am studying art in college and we're talking about avant garde as a concept in my modern art history class. I find avant garde works to be directly kin to play. Play in childhood is the precursor to creativity in adulthood. Without a standard to create in correlation to, I think we experience (albeit second hand) that same whimsy we did as children. It captures a very similar fog and haze and confusion and newness. Very interesting. Great video!

[@Gibbyne]

I think asking for the point for avant-garde art is almost synonymous with asking what’s the point of being born. It exists to provide another story in the lore of expressive contribution in allowance to be discovered, conversed, interpreted & referenced by those willing to use their attention & curiosity

[@talkintruthelliotkillian]

Enjoyable video. I had similar thoughts after going to my first avante garde music concert. Some songs seemed like just random noise with objects but I could appreciate how cool it is when non musical instruments make their way into popular compositions (the broom in Neil Young’s “Harvest Moon” or the axe in Zedd’s “The Middle” for example

[@oxiary]

i love how you compared Avant-Garde to being the inspiration juice for graduates // ppl geuinely love fashion Avant-Garde to me are like concept cars, its the wild cards that moves us & give us a taste of the zeitgeist or waht the zeitgeist can be

[@Freddie_Dunning-Kruger_Jr.]

Maurizio Cattelan is my current favorite living artist. I remember seeing La Nona Ora as a kid and thinking "why, but why not"

[@luthandocollinsmbenge155]

The last part of the video reminds of the “Fashion is not original” video & how art does not come out of a medium, that kid can look at the piece and maybe transform /up-cycle to it being READY TO WEAR , which is basically serve as the next step of the life of that garment.

[@raykampf4151]

Hi Bliss - Just discovered your channel. I am a professor of Visual Communication Design and teach a course in Visual Thinking. One area I teach my students about is that DESIGN is the overlap of CRAFT and ART. Craft being the skills needed to make something that works: a chair, pants, an iPhone - that the form does follow the function. Art is that area in which we experiment and push the envelope. I agree with your thesis here and will have my class watch this video as a lot of them have a hard time understanding why they have to take Art classes, when they are trying to do signage and graphics - not realizing that the Art is what opens doors to new ways to use materials and mediums. Thank you for your video.

[@BlissFoster]

Absolutely, Ray! Keep up the good work 💫💫

[@_xiha_]

Love other avant garde music like machine girl, burial and venetian snares. Also love the content!!

[@emilianogama569]

I loved what you said at the end about work that inpires others and becomes reference. I can see how design is a way to take complex concepts and make them available for a wider audience.

[@davidevescovini402]

Thanks bliss for giving life to my exact same thoughts in a brilliant and cohesive way. I have always got that feeling that avant gard is passing the baton and reshaping a collective idea imbedded in ourselvs until someone finds A way to communicate it effectively

[@rafi9594]

L'Age d'Or I highly recommend watching it if you want to watch one of the first surrealist films, created with the help of Dali. I didn't really understand it at first, at least the intentions, but now I have a clearer perspective on it.

[@justin2597]

The master, Luis Buñuel 🙌

[@akshaymalhan5893]

im just 17, and absolutely mesmerized by this world(and your content). you picked up on the fact that the people not acquainted to this, might think that avant garde is busy, just for the sake of being busy. how do you define the legitimacy of the idea. how does one differentiate between ACTUAL avante garde and fakes.going further, can anything actually be classifed as fake? what about noise music like "pulse demon"? is that avant garde or just something unconventional just to be different?

[@BlissFoster]

I think anything pushing the boundaries of the medium is avant-garde, but there is also bad avant-garde art. This video is, by no means, arguing that all avant-garde art is somehow good. It’s just arguing that *one* of the purposes of *good* AG art is to serve as an encyclopedia for future artists 💫💫

[@Unknown-fr9tr]

I think it’s hard to differentiate between fake Avent garde And Genuine avant-garde I think the driving force for avant grade is to be different from main stream culture and rebel against conventional art . So I think being different for different sake isn’t a good based to tell if it’s fake avant--garde. I think a better based is motive . Is it avant garde for artist express or is it avant grade for profit . Fake avant grade is only for profit and to capitalise of the art movement not for artist express (I’m 17 too lol😭😂hi)

[@MichalinaBuba]

When visiting museums and exhibitions dedicated to avant-garde I was feeling big emotions, but they did vary between the age I was at the time. When 17 I had opportunity to see exhibit of Marina Abramowić in Florence. I was lucky to be there with my art high school classmates and teachers. It enabled a furious discussion between us, we analyzed our emotion and thots. It opened my perspective on the world and pushed me to feel uncomfortable in what I see in front of my eyes. This experience gave me bigger perspective on who we are as people and what we choose to see in day to day life. To this day when I’m 24 I struggle to look at this kind of art. But I see that as an open journey that everybody can join at the time right for them. It lets us evolve as individuals and let’s un in to the complicated minds of the people who are brave enough to show their perspective to the world.

[@lukas8355]

These past years I've had a lot of struggles with creativity and i feel like that the cause for this can be found in the amount of input we can get from different sources. For me then seeing these incredibly creative Ideas and designs which in a lot of cases go straight against the norms of our society today just makes my heart light up and really makes me strive creativity again. I find it really nice to see people just going wherever their minds lead them and that they realize their visions in order for us to see. Avant-Garde in general just shows what people can achieve/create when they have full freedom in their thinking.

[@ninam6826]

Never seen your content before but I'm glad it came across my feed! I am, admittedly, one of those people who has never understood avant-garde art beyond a "pushing barriers" narrative and my solution was to just say "it's just not for me". But this video was extremely illuminating and I found your central idea very compelling! It's inspired me to re-watch Eraserhead :D thanks for the great content!

[@where2hide]

I totally agree with your point, Bliss. It's the rawness of avant-garde that inspires new ideas from artists. As a young designer, I often find myself stimulated by the disarray of possible concepts presented in this art form. It's like a mind map simplified into a masterpiece with which people can discover different elements and ideas despite the piece itself having little to no explanation. If I were to describe avant-garde in one word, it's going to be "possibilities"; possibilities that are free for other artists to take.

[@styleshiftermedia3400]

I’ve had a bit of a think about this ; and I feel it stems back to one question, Why do we do anything? Passed cave people doing most things for survival, what was the need to evolve? Boredom? Maybe people within this area are bored with the mundane, the hum drum of life , and existence most of us live day in and day out. So what can they do ,and do they do about it? They take the ordinary and make it extraordinary. I recently went to a Matty Bovan exhibition, where he took the humble ribbon , something normally used to adorn other things, and put it centre stage, making us think about it in a whole new light. And I think Avant-garde does this . Take things we’re familiar with, and forces us to look at them in a completely different way ( a man coming out of a giant hens egg on a beach) . It wakes us up ! It challenges thought and perception of things around us.

[@zachotto7935]

I'm glad that you mentioned bringing ideas to their natural conclusion. The way I always thought of it is that it is important to introduce new ideas and ways of thinking, however messy and awkward as they may in their infancy. For the sake of the medium, and if it was an idea worth exploring, someone WILL expand upon it down the road and hopefully get it right (or more right). BTW: I'm a digital/ traditional 2D/3D artist and I pull inspiration from avant-garde art of many different mediums. It's neat finding through lines in art regardless of the medium. Though we all express ourselves differently, we are all unified as artists/ designers/ creatives nonetheless. Just different languages of expressing the same things. I think that's really cool.

[@greg1595]

I always felt like it was a celebration from the norm. It never felt weird alot of the times but it felt normal. I think most of the time there are metaphors and messages. There is a feeling it gives that other types of art doesn’t. Like most art there are things that speak to you and others that don’t.

[@cinema991]

This was a great video, made me think of this kind of art in a new way. A constant refueling of inspirations that artists feed of eachother, creating cycles and conculsions to ideas. It's a really nice way to see the creative industry. It's not unlike popular media, it's just different factors at play and because of that, different audiences.

[@hannahhzp3320]

Omg I was shocked when I saw your t-shirt was written in Farsy

[@HighTechCinnamon]

Like music, its a cultural conversation that naturally picks up where other artists left off and evolves and forms itself into something completely different. I never really thought of avant garde art this way before, I, like many people, just try to understand what its supposed to mean rather than just experiencing it. Thanks for the new perspective!

[@sacrefrenchie2132]

I kept thinking about this so came back to join the comments. I've always loved "avant garde" designers and go to a lot of modern art exhibitions but for some reason had the idea that avant garde meant totally new and devoid of previous reference in the creative realm, leading often to itself becoming referential. But that's just not true, all art is full of referential themes, an thats no bad thing. This has made me totally rethink what can be considered avant garde. It also made me realise how much media and culture I consume that falls into this box. I basically watched this going "that's not avant garde" an I'm definitely wrong, maybe I need to go watch/see some less interesting art 😅

[@joylox]

Some of my favourite things that I genuinely like that would be considered somewhat avant-garde, are Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (a sci-fi radio show, book series followed by other adaptations that is very absurd, confusing, and existential at parts), and the music video of Bill Wurtz (KZbinr most well known for history of the entire world, i guess) and I feel like what makes them so intriguing to me, is that they both remix past work, and provide a starting point to remix and shape things to come. It's sort of a series of asking what could happen if you just follow a strange idea. It can be a lot of fun to see where some unique ideas go.

[@monsieurgolem3392]

American Vogue comments on Galliano's Suzie Sphinx collection: ".......why make clothes no one can wear? Because the best ideas are born from extremes."

[@MistaZULE]

Great video. I love avant-garde and surreal art. I'm more into music and film than fashion (although I do appreciate it) and your point that the avant garde art is the artist putting every idea on the "page" as it were without contemplating how the piece fits together so that in the future someone who is inspired by your piece can "take it home". I've never thought about this idea before as I have many ideas in music and film that are directly from the insane surreal art I have witnessed and these ideas subsconsciously affect my own art. Sometimes it's nice when an artist only wants to make a point by getting across a major theme visually, but with so much depth they are basically inviting you to explore it and maybe find things the artist never intended. Like a challenge to the audience to work to understand their art. They are not handing you the message with a nice bow, they really make you work for it.

[@daemondost7168]

I've always described avant-garde as your subconscious on psychedelics.

[@hayleyj9656]

Wacthing this, I keep thinking about this arzabajani / persian movie called Pomegranate that takes a traditional poem and situates it in a very modern-day cognitive film world mostly through the clothes of the actors. Because fashion in iran/Azerbaijan has such diffrent cultural meaning I feel like it's a really great foil for understanding avant garde as it exists with different fashion and cultural identities I see in this movie a lot of interplay from the traditional and religious dress reacting and amending the asthetic of the 60s to the identity of the culture. Also, I feel like clothing is a layer of our internal selves made manifest within the context of the zeitgeist it is often the opening gambit in the conversation society has about what philosophy and reality or humanness is for a particular generations or time each generation renegotiates this for themselves from their view of the past and the future. Ideas within a moment of time travel through different forms of art at different speeds. Music and fashion are fast movies, and books are slower but more complex. Likewise the avant-garde is fast because it ignores rules of comfort for a less analytical unconscious somatic reaction to avaliable inputs which I think is why it often feels like a dream. It's the body and brain responding without the voice of the ego perhaps and then that is translated or synthesized into art with more familiar touchstones to orient an audience to an more detailed and analytical unpackingn of ehat that feeling is and how this feeling might change and values to a new normal.

[@elenakhusanova2814]

I agree, I am a graphic designer and recently find myself more inspired, since I am watching weird art rather than just watching another graphic designers as I did before.

[@hulonthesurvivor5884]

6:34 ...it was at this moment, it all finally made sense. Infinite love and respect. New subscriber.

[@teomantaner5992]

As an amateur sound designer, one of the skills that I am trying to grow as I expand my understanding of music, and develop different inspirations, is that I try to take apart almost every piece of music that I listen to in terms of production. The different effects used to amplify characteristics of instruments, or even mood-based inspirations with which I strive to create brand new electronic instruments from scratch. Once you begin to regard all art as a bunch of discrete elements smashed together to create infinite combinations of molecules. I don't necessarily think you need to travel to the absolute cutting edge (or the bottom of the trash barrel as a cynic might call it) of avant-garde art. Every sound and every idea can be molded into unrecognizable parodies of the sound from which it came.

[@nolovisuals1338]

Stopping at 4:35 to comment because I'm shook...I literally just watched The Holy Mountain for the first time two days ago and it was NUTS

[@johndonovan6086]

Nailed it, loved this thanks Bliss. All about the "capital C" Conversation

[@justinevans1115]

I value the openness that bring to this topic and especially the patience you express for those who dont trust that the avant grade is sincere or honest in their motivations. But if you’re talking about something as broad as the “avant garde” then I don’t think you should simplify the motivations of the artists involved into one blanket objective. Why not include that very valid motivation you discussed (which is very thought provoking, thank you!) amongst the variety of other potential objectives. Part of the avant garde is experimenting with what the objective of art really is or can be. To me, I find it becomes more convincing in that framework. What new purposes can art have in our communities and culture? That, to me, is one of the many questions the avant garde asks

[@Frownlandia]

What's always impacted me about avant-garde art is the insistence that more is possible. Few things give me more comfort than that, to the point where I've struggled to recognize Art within more conservative pieces of art. Granted, I'm the kind of asshole who might say shit like "The fact that more is possible is the fact that time moves forward," and "Every human on earth should listen to Trout Mask Replica in its entirety."

[@dollclique8616]

Holy Mountain was 1 of the 1st things I thought of when you asked what we think of avant guard, I couldn't watch the whole insane movie. I have a hard time giving any drug induced music- movies paintings or anything any credit. But I'm not sure if that was the case with this movie but still. Avant guard its just a bridge,.. Just another piece to the puzzle in expression, like when you're trying to remember something and you trace back your conversation. I need all these little pieces and you finally realize what you forgot because because one thing. If you didn't think of that one thing you might not have remembered. I don't like most Avant guard things unless they really feel like an amazing good vibe though.

[@annikamengisen1669]

Ok not so much following you this time. It's an interesting discussion, but I think maybe more pertinent to the fashion world? I consider myself an avant garde performance artist and I do it because it feels like the most authentic way to express the stuff the universe is sending me. The world is often chaotic and doesn't make sense and art that fits into a box and is easier to immediately grasp and understand just doesn't feel as authentic to me. It also feels like avant garde allows for a wider range of interaction with the art from the audience. More possibilities for interpretation and meaning. I've started designing clothes in the last two years and I'm taking these concepts from my performance art life into the designs I'm making - sometimes more successfully than others - and it's been a super interesting ride.

[@cylord9469]

Jodorowsky could've made some awesome runways

[@BlissFoster]

Strong agree

[@bacht4799]

Totally agree.. one thing there annoys me about his work is.. nobody talks about how stylish and sometimes timeless “ if that’s okay to say “ the clothes his character’s wearing in his work.. I saw Santa Sangre yesterday “ freaking amazing “ and that scene where the boy in cowboy clothes and the girl with hers white makeup.. it’s so good.. or something like that

[@styleshiftermedia3400]

Totally agree

[@whatistau]

As a former art student i hated all discussion on Avanr Garde art through out the years, specifically as i was always for taking it in intuituvelly, but i cannot pass on your video, so lets go

[@eliterun6214]

IMO, avant-garde is art that is technically skillful, but purposefully plays with expectations, because it knows precisely what those expectations are and precisely how to surprise you. People lose the "technically skillful" part, and it devolves into pointlessness as people introduce surprise for surprise's sake, it becomes the art equivalent of a family guy non-sequitor--stupid, and predictably unpredictable EDIT: Bliss, you accurately described the process of human invention, and you're spot on

[@neilteago3533]

Grayson Perry described the job of the artist as inventing clichés. Inventing clichés entails coming up with something utterly new. I think the Avant Garde performs this function. I think your analysis fits with this perfectly.

[@TheDonLemonSnickety]

Let’s first make it clear that not all art considered “avant garde” are actually successful in being a true vanguard of its medium, and experimental films certainly do not all succeed in creating an experience or evoking ideas concept or visual aesthetics that have any great value and can even actually be nothing more than “weird for weirds sake”. But successful avant-garde material, is usually much easier to detect when you have a solid Foundation of experience and love for the medium in question. Also, you can think something that’s actually vapid is avant-garde if you aren’t familiar enough with a medium to realize there is actually nothing new in a work and it really is just pretentiousness. But just like in mainstream cinema when we there’s a master storyteller in the traditional sense that most people can appreciate, what I consider successful vanguard art is that same degree of mastery in a more conceptual or aesthetic, abstract level, where the creator has actually ended up through much experimental efforts, with a work that is close to their actual intent. And I think it’s not always that difficult to know it when you see it. Especially if you have a lot of experience of active film watching.

[@cidricola]

I agree, Avant-Garde can serve as an inspiration, and also because it is pushing the limits of its respective medium, it draws the mind to the edge of what it thought was possible to express there. When you are so close to the edge, it is easier to fall over and into new territory. For me it feels like a launchpad to get into the deeper parts of myself.

[@christophdouglas2146]

I like how avant-Garde reminds me of old memories I had in the slightest way and then the hole memory pops in my head and I revise the memory in a different perspective Is this common or am I the only one ??

[@isaackasay5629]

i think that to oversimplify avant garde art as an encyclopedia for future artists is only a fraction of what it truly is and can be. it supposed to be a means of communicating some of the strongest emotions, most nuanced stories, and weirdest possible experiences one could have went through. art communicates ones perspective, emotions, and experiences, and sometimes the best way to get express this is in a way diverting from the normal. as someone who is big into music, i cant imagine some of the albums i listen to wrote or structured any other way, and sometimes to understand that is difficult, but art is can be difficult i think thats one of the many beauties about it. sometimes you dig to understand the purpose and sometimes theres literally zero purpose but that in itself is interesting enough to dissect. society has created structure for a lot of things and art is not an exception. music theory is a prime example. but sometimes the structure provided is boring. id rather teach myself how to play the piano and be able to come up with my own harmonies and melodies. id rather teach myself the drums and come up with my own rhythms. the societal structure for art SHOULD BE DIVERTED FROM!!! without that, theres no innovation.

[@emanueleolivari769]

7:04 there's a reference to this scene in Franchise video Travis Scott

[@croissant-kun4025]

do you have the link of the protesting animals video??? It is now one of my most favourite videos I've ever seen :>

[@BlissFoster]

It’s from a video game called “Oikospiel” which I strongly recommend 💫💫

[@doesname5520]

I like a lot of experimental music (like death grips in your title) specifically, so I think my answer is related to emotion and feeling because music conjures a lot of instinctual pathways in our brains to emotion and such. I think the 'point' of avant garde art is that experimental and strange things can express the sentiments people want to express with a greater intensity than the stuff that is in the norm. Massive, blown out distortion and cacophany in music like death grips's gives their listeners a deeper experience of rage or empowerment or energy than they could've gotten from the more acceptable music that might restrict their vocalists to 'normal' inflections and their arrangements to less eclectic instrumentation (powers that b part one is a good example of this, using only bjork samples for percussion). People that allow themselves to be initially surprised, but then take the time to absorb the weirdness can then see what the new music or art can give them that they didn't have access to before. I think this is the reason that avant-garde things can sometimes become mainstream, as in the case of people like young thug or t-pain in rap music who brought very strange vocal stylings to the forefront. Both artists have seen the pushback that you mention from people who don't attempt to see the positives 'strange' methods bring to the table. Young thug is seen as bad or something by older generations because he utilizes unique pronunciations and ad libs and t-pain is constantly undermined for autotune as if he were talentless. I bring both of them up because these aspects of their art have been adopted almost universally in their genres because they broung new potential for energy and emotion than existed before their innovation. Most avant-garde stuff doesn't go mainstream, though, and I still think it has merit. All in all, experimental and avant garde things have a greater capacity than 'normal' art to express their intended messages and emotions. cool video, thx!!

[@talkingmudcrab718]

Yeah. Revisions. Seeing something again. We do this a lot in the engineering field too. Every tool you use started off in some crazy ass variation, and was invented by a visionary.

[@deakenfrentrop1980]

Avant garde works on a spectrum like oil paint concentration and the higher, more expressive and symbolic end of the spectrum (things like holy mountain) can inspire more accessible acts on the more literal end of the avant garde

[@shadowsfromolliesgraveyard6577]

I really thought that example at the end was gonna lead into an outcome or at least a 2nd step for which Avant-garde is the input. It feels incomplete. Is there a video where we get to see how Avant-garde inspires other art?

[@glohaus9068]

I’m interested in learning more about avant garde films what do you recommend besides the Holy Mountain

[@BlissFoster]

I haven’t seen it yet but Donkey Skin is insane. Fashion designers love referencing it

[@godalmighty5331]

This Top knot ( in hair) reminds me of Kengan Ashura.

[@laylahassomethingtosay]

I personally see the label of Avant-Garde as having more to do with the intention than the output. It does not inherently betray literalism, cohesion, or clarity. But it does set them aside to prioritize finding the purest possible form of expression. Those more communicative properties may still be present in the final product (and when they are, the art seems to have a better chance of resonating with audiences), but it's not the goal.

[@kaedotmoe]

You're right. Avant-garde means literally advancing a guard, i.e. pushing boundaries. Undecided conclusions are meant (given a certain sense of "meant", in the same way theoretical mathematicians don't technically do their works /in order to/ be used by future engineers and scientists as well) to be interpretated and completed eventually. To surmise, avant-garde opens doors, so that people can walk through them. And speaking sociopolitically, doesn't that make sense? For a lot of people who are "outside" society, the desire to move away from normal and embrace the weird is pretty natural to me. What's wrong with disdain for an established aesthetic? Why should a black person, a queer person, hold only and entirely religious respect for greek marble and family values? What is in there for us? Why wouldn't I want to build a newer, stranger world? And then, if we move on to a larger scope, to the link between avant-garde and modernism or even post-modernism, there's also society at large, which doesn't even have to be queer or a minority, but who have witnessed the failures of grand narratives, of movements and heroes. People lived to see wars kill millions, they watched the soviet union collapse, they saw their strongman leaders champion great causes they go into nothing. Everyday Capitalism fails, too. All the things that make sense to us, that are familiar and always the same and therefore supposed to be reliable and pleasant? They're not. They're not stable, or safe, or enjoyable. The aesthetic tradition of purity is not beautiful, it is even hideous. And so in the horrendous snarl of the bizarre, there is some new hope, there is even sarcasm, there is an energy there, that's why I chase after the absurd, actually. it's why I like death grips, or listen to mashup, or do shitty mspaint drawings or meme edits. It's why everybody does something now, and besides the obvious... grandiosity of the fashion industry, i like to imagine at the end of the way we all move for the same reason

[@corod-1]

I shared this one with my normie friends on FB lol, I hope some of my painter friends watch it, they are the worst critics of fashion. I agree with this point of view & I personally don't think all art needs to be perfect or refined, sometimes it just needs to be expressed...

[@shocknawe]

You could use this following analogy and tell them they are acting like the posh critics of the late 19th century who belittled post-impressionism and so many other movements. I HIGHLY doubt any of them would call Van Gogh body of work shite. Back in those days, the mainstream was firmly on realism and Renaissance/Roman-esque paintings and still obsessed with the capture of pure, perfectionistic reality.

[@diemes5463]

I've found the only solution is to be an advocate and expose others to as much art as possible. All it takes is one work to change an opinion.

[@sethfriedermann7561]

Sometimes art is just about the unfiltered reaction it provokes and NOTHING else. To avoid the intellect entirely.

[@marcelrubenmander6014]

Avant-garde in whatever shape or form might be to put it bluntly a person’s irrational, rhizomatic, non-linear way of connecting to the universe and it’s forces.

[@rashodmasters4299]

I used to really hate avant garde and modern art when I was younger but as I aged i realized it's not really meant for you to completely understand it rather its meant for you to feel it

[@dmbespokefurniture9760]

Hi, thanks for the video. I have a question: what is the difference between Avant-garde and Surrealism? Thanks

[@jonahlavender6456]

Imagine creativity as a cloud, a space outside of the artist that any artist can tap into at any time. This space contains all ideas, all of current culture, and all of past history. The artists job is not to be creative internally but to be open. Open to new ideas, open to change, and open to yourself. It’s also the artists job to be present with his or her surroundings. If the artist does this, they are able to receive whatever information the cloud sends to them. These ideas can come to anyone at any time. In this sense, the cloud is a supernatural world in which all things exist, and in which anything is possible. Avant-Garde is similar. Avant-Garde feels like a glimpse into a supernatural world. A world where anything becomes possible. A world where rules no longer exist. A world where everything is uniquely different, but also the same. Maybe, Avant-Garde is a worldly glimpse into the cloud. If this is true, then this makes Avant-Garde art for the artist. Avant-Garde allows the artist to be close to the source of creativity. Consuming Avant-Garde allows the artist to be closer to the cloud. Maybe this is why artists enjoy Avant-Garde more then anyone else. It allows you to think freely and be more open to new perspectives, and new ideas. This, Bliss, is maybe why Avant-Garde feels like glimpses of ideas, yet to be taken home and finalized by someone else. Maybe, the purpose of Avant-Garde is not to give inspiration, but to bring us closer to where all inspiration comes from.

[@JumpScaredYa2]

i feel like it’s not seeing self expression as an adult, more like a kid

[@l.lwildmoore4369]

The Avant-gardes aren’t inherently weird, the work relies on its original definition: it’s a vanguard of the new. The pursuit of fresh, as with the modernists in art, it was (and is) the pursuit of development to move away from the status quo, shifting from the norm. So yes whilst inherently weird, if successfully “new”, it isn’t intentionally weird purely for the sake of being outlandish. What you say about the merit of misunderstood ideas further adapted by other artists is fundamentally correct. New ideas are always catalystic for further change, even if poorly delivered or immensely outlandish. And the development of said ideas are continuations of the avant-garde!

[@Kataxu]

Its all games of perspectives. Games, tests, and indulgences. Theres 3 types of media: Media for all, media for the particular (niche), and media to challenge everyone(avant-garde). At least thats my off-the-cuff assessment. Niche media sometimes crosses over into challenging territory for the "all media" types, while the avant-garde seeks to challenge concepts even niche appreciators will potentially fail to appreciate (misunderstanding, dislike, or even revulsion). That said, avant-garde has a tendency (just like the other forms of art) to range wildly in quality based on the understanding of the artist, and how well they truly grasp the concept they seek to depict, especially their perspective of that particular concept, or its themes. This is all of course entirely leaving out interpretation. I also totally forgot that this was in a commercial context, so thats so many different psychologies layers and mixed.

[@laxbro-xm9ht]

as a designer i have always looked at avant-garde as the boundary or of what we’ve done so far

[@novafritts9332]

I think some artists want to create something that has never existed before, pushing the boundaries of ideas to make something truly unique. Pure expression of thought doesn't need to have any meaning or purpose.

[@oliverruth]

I think that Avant-Garde is there to push the boundaries. If you think in bubbles then Avant-Garde artists would try to expand the bubble make it bigger whilst the non Avant-Garde artists stay in the bubble doing their art inspired by them.

[@erickmxq]

6..08 min, Bliss is that you? you are a time traveler!

[@pala.g3100]

anyone know what the video is at 2:45 of the graffiti performance?

[@BlissFoster]

called “ITS SO FRESH I CANT TAKE IT”

[@pala.g3100]

​@@BlissFoster thanks! great video btw!

[@jthomas4791]

Your home is amazing!

[@BlissFoster]

Haha that is definitely not my house 😅 that’s my parents home. But yeah! It’s super beautiful! My dad used to work at flea markets so the furnature was all free or mega cheap 💫💫

[@orion3253]

The Holy Mountain, as referenced by Adventure Time.

[@arthurjeiel6264]

Avant-Garde is really appealing to me because it seems to delve way much in the emotional dimension of creation When you watch a Jodorowsky or a Lynch film, and you are essentially obliged to abandon all reason, you acess this almost dream state of mind, you get sucked into this new way of seeing the world, and as much as it is a form of scapism, it is also a more interactive experience - since you need to actively search for the meaning. That being said, art DOESN'T need to have a meaning or a point, it can just be cool random shit sometimes. The more abstract, the more specific it gets in terms of the effect on the viewer, because it taps into the subconscious - meaning you can't always tell why a piece of work has the impact on you that it does. (I hope I was able to comunicate my ideas clearly, cause english isn't my firs language and it's kinda difficult for me to express more abstract thoughts LOL) (great video btw, I really appreciate this space for discussion)

[@hliophaneia]

Avant Garde for me means a bunch of saturated colors, feelings and emotions being released by a humankind. It`s like a little part of soul that was materialised. Everything else is based on something simple and regular. Avant-Garde is like something cannot be explained sometimes. It`s based from subjective thinking of individual, which owns mind. It might be not understandable and it shouldn`t. And Avant Garde is the next step of everything. The exploring the boundaries of the mind.

[@gggutinho]

Avant-Garde is like working with raw materials. There's so much you can do with it. Isn't that the whole opposite of something pointless?

[@michaelbozas]

To be honest seeing Death Grips and The Holy Mountain in the same sentence got me really intrigued.

[@nosedrug]

LOVE YOU BLISS

[@carlocatalano9662]

It's adorable that the commonplace & mediocre from my youth has re-emerged here as the weird & avant garde.

[@ericmolnar4387]

What is the reason for art ???

[@kwit0808]

its to keep it alive and moving. point can not even exist, the Art exists and thats pretty great in my opinion

[@Dreamers_Circle]

I'm inspired.

[@_Dr.PepperPHD]

Lol howdy I'm the undergrad art students TL;DR I think framing avant-garde art like this is a bit reductive and maybe a bit dismissive I personally don't love the characterisation of avant-garde art as 'weird', 'lacking cohesion' or 'naïve' (that last one's more from the comments than the vid). 'Weird' must be in conversation with a presupposed state of normalcy - where does the art you consider standard come from? What values does it hold? How does it communicate? What tends to be labelled avant-garde is art that draws on traditions, forms and assumptions unfamiliar to the mainstream, or that consciously subverts normative convention. It also frequently expresses identity outside the mainstream, as these are communities that frequently develop their own 'language', literally or figuratively. These are conventions that can be drawn on, but I don't think avant-garde art collates them as a dictionary any more than any other standalone art with conventions. A piece of art being maximalist, engaging with unfamiliar conceptual spaces or constructed with a different intuition to the audience's doesn't make it devoid of intention or only useful as a point of reference, and interesting aesthetics can also be an end unto themselves whether or not they go on to inspire others; artists can create to aesthetic and conceptual ends that don't involve ending up on a mood board. Sure, lots of 'avant garde' art can be hard to endure, but there's plenty of cases where that may be because you're not going in armed with the relevant lens. To me, the Holy Mountain has a cohesive visual style that synthesizes South American spirituality, modernist occultism and the post-industrial world, and the intuitive, fabulistic flow of its plot as well as its maximalist aesthetic are in line with its new-age influences. I think the film is comfortable with camp and the goofiness that arises from its self-seriousness, and it's one of many deliberate tones in its arsenal. A motif I read in death grips's work, which wasn't touched on much, is the evocation of a persona of 'modern evil' - in Exmilitary thru referencing American pop culture, and in The Money Store thru the lo-fi digital aesthetics of the illicit internet. The abrasive quality of the music both mimicks these spaces and further expresses qualities of relentless nastiness. To me the role of influence can be much broader and more cultural than the work of any individual (who themselves are influenced by and contribute to broader cultural forces), and artists are often influenced by things outside the sphere of 'mainstream art', and therefore create in kind. P.s. happen to be 30 odd chapters thru Moby Dick (which is like a pinky toe in the water it's a long ass book), it do be ferociously dense but I'm still waiting for it to get ferociously weird

[@technogatsby98]

Great video!! de you have a list of the sources of all the clips?

[@BlissFoster]

I don’t, we just got back from PFW and are buried in the editing process rn, if you have a specific timestamp, I’ll see if I can ID it 💫💫

[@kevopaul]

@@BlissFoster Hey Bliss ! Can you tell me what's the shaky graffiti metro clip at 2:42 ?? Thanks m

[@autumncosandaffect9735]

Thanks!

[@BlissFoster]

You bet! 💫💫

[@daylenkennedy100]

i feel that avant-garde is art in its purest form. it’s actually having courage in your ideas and not letting the elements of art, marketing, or rules we learned takeover. avant-garde is also art in its first form as well. for example, when a kid draws their first picture, it has no theme or structure to it. in some ways it’s a pilgrimage back to what drew you into art when you didn’t know what art was. which is why it’s so puzzling because we created a definition for art when in reality one could argue that art doesn’t have a definition 💖

[@user-rr5lj8nu3n]

Love your example of coming full circle in a way, reaching childlike freedome again. Reminds me of the people that arent really into art saying something like "My little niece could draw that!" ;)

[@JohnBrian-zs5yp]

I completely agree

[@TheHumanPurpleTape]

This is so perfectly stated.

[@goyonman9655]

​@@JohnBrian-zs5yp Avant Garde art is overrated

[@goyonman9655]

​@@user-rr5lj8nu3n Adult responsibility >> ChildLike Freedom

[@lauriehill_jpg]

I remember learning about much more conceptual forms of art at uni and one of the most important things to remember about the avant-garde and conceptual art, is that so much of it was pioneered by people of colour, immigrants, women and the working class, as much of it stemmed from this demand for democratising art and the 'de-skilling' of art. which essentially was about removing the elitist ideas of technical skill, higher education, and the need for institutional endorsement. in many ways the avant-garde and conceptual art is art for the people, as it acknowledged much more so than other genres of art at the time of it's surge in popularity, that anyone can be creative and an artist, and that these types of creatives are extremely valuable to society

[@ayao]

I would 100% disagree, you are describing the exception rather than the rule. Most artists mentioned in the video attended college, and have abundant technical knowledge. Experimental art is more likely to be made by those with formal training, wealth, or disposable time. The idea avant garde art is about de-skilling is also rather untrue. Cutting edge art requires skill, because it is vital to understand the rules before breaking them. There is no need to pretend marginalized artists are always the pioneers, great art is just made by great people.

[@icaprone1]

are you talking about avant-garde or outsider art? of course both avant-garde and outsider art can sponsor a revolution in art, it's just that the avant-garde is commonly part of the institution (canon?) whereas outsider art isn't. I often fail describing an artists as conceptual as though that is a legit niche. truth is all art is conceptual, all art has a concept, or else it is making mud pies

[@roy_for_real2674]

Doesn't seem like it.

[@sisir9639]

coming from a left leaning perspective, avant-guarde and experimentalist art is anti-establishment for me, whether that establishment is a form of the state, or the cultural/artistic hegemony in the time, and concerning people who are marginalised.

[@ayao]

@@sisir9639 politics should have no play in definitions. avant garde is simply to be cutting edge, not necessarily anti-establishment or concerning marginalized groups.

[@oursaisert]

I don't know where I read that but I remember Rei talking about how she wants to create something new everytime, approach every new collection with the eyes of an unitiated, a new college student and for me that's what describes Avant-Garde the best. Wanting to create something new, a new base for you and/or others to base your work upon.

[@natasha2222227]

I agree with this take. I think of avant-garde as a way to create something new and introduce new concepts, ideas, and techniques. It’s intention is to create something different than what’s considered normal and to show that normal is just the current state of a environment. I think the conception of some avant-garde art may just be an idea that the artist may not even have finished. A question without an answer. Meant to push thought further than what it’s used to. For everyone to derive a meaning from to complete it or the artist figures it out through growing and learning.

[@laninfapimentel311]

Oh, I remember that! Maybe from one of Blis' videos? She said something along the lines of "I wish I could delete my preveous experience as a designer", or something like that. Mindblowing. Most creatives are trying to find their voice, theis signature style. And Rei is a very rare case os a creative who wishes to not have a distinct voice or style. Like a child who has never seen a poece of clothing before.

[@oursaisert]

@@laninfapimentel311 that might actually be it cuz I remember this sentence exactly yes

[@NyatshaneKAbale]

Avant-Garde to me is about the comfort that it brings to the disturbed and the discomfort it brings to the comfortable....

[@ivanfiorilla6851]

I spent the majority of the video saying "that's it!" "I could have not said it better myself" "Finally someone said it properly!" This might be your best video yet, you are growing so so much. Once again, thanks Bliss!