What is the relationship between indulgences and purgatory?

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What is the relationship between the Catholic doctrine of indulgences and their teaching about purgatory?
This clip is from our series entitled, "Protestants and Catholics Do They Now Agree on: Maryology, Confession and Purgatory?

[@1962mrpaul]

Fr Pacha gives a masterful exposition of Sacred Scripture, unlocking treasures that "Bible" Christians often miss!

[@1962mrpaul]

+Dr. Alan Hales 1] Matthew 5:25 is part of a larger section (Matthew 5:20-48) where he states that “Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and pharisees you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.” So these are teachings about entering the kingdom of heaven and warning us of actions and attitudes that might exclude us from the kingdom of heaven, or that may need purifying before we enter the kingdom of heaven. So the “prison” language is symbolic and refers to the next life. [2] The sin against the Holy Spirit is obstinate unrepentence even unto death. So the person who refuses to repent of his sins and dies in that state is guilty of the unforgivable sin. These people go to Hell. The souls in purgatory, however, have repented of their sins (are NOT guilty of the sin against the Holy Spirit) and are saved and their sanctification is being completed so that they can enter the full joy of heaven because “nothing impure can enter heaven.” (Revelation 21:27) [3] Fr Pacwa quite rightly states that Jesus descended among the dead on Good Friday, rose from Death on Easter Sunday and only after that went to heaven. So when Jesus said to the Repentant Thief “Today you will be with me in paradise” Jesus could not mean Heaven because Jesus didn’t go to heaven on that day. So where do you think the Thief went when he died? You mentioned "Abraham's Bosom" which is in the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man (Luke 16:19-31). Jesus states that the Rich Man died and went to “the underworld” or “hades” which simply means the “place of the dead.” Jesus’s usual word for Hell [the place of eternal torment] is Gehenna, so one can conclude that the Rich Man is not in the eternal hell, but in Purgatory, whereas Lazarus, who was purified during his life through suffering, had no need of purification, and so was with Abraham and the other Old Testament saints waiting for heaven to be opened by Christ’s Paschal Mystery.

[@1962mrpaul]

Dr. Alan Hales Most of what you wrote agrees with Catholic Doctrine concerning the different parts of Hell. So you and Pacwa and the Catholic Church agree. So there is still hope for you, Dr. Hales. I swill pray that the Holy Spirit enlightening you to the fullness of God's Truth which is preserved in the Catholic Church. As for the "White Throne Judgment," that was not mentioned in the video and is a topic for another day.

[@1962mrpaul]

Dr. Alan Hales You make a mistake: "Hades" (Greek) or "Sheol" (Hebrew) is the place of the dead, both the righteous and unrighteous. It is divided into two sections: "Abraham's Bosom" or "Paradise" for the righteous, and a place of purifying torments for sinners. Lazarus was in the section for the righteous; the Rich Man was in the place of purification. Luke 16:26 does not say there is no getting out, only that there is no CROSSING OVER between the two sections. After the Resurrection, Abraham's Bosom would be emptied as these saints could now through Christ enter heaven. Those on the other side, once fully purified, could then also enter heaven. The place of eternal damnation is Gehenna. The Rich Man was not in Gehenna. If Pacwa said Lazarus was in purgatory then he was mistaken. He made a slip of the tongue.

[@1962mrpaul]

you are confusing Sheol with Gehenna. Sheol is simply the "place of the dead." whereas Gehenna is the place of eternal torment. But you are confused about many Bible passages. The Apostle Peter warned us long ago about confused people like you (2 Peter 3:16). Where does Jesus say "Those in hades will not get out?" NO WHERE. Stop making things up! Praised be Jesus Christ who has built His True Church on the Rock of Peter and the Firm foundation of the Apostles and Prophets! The Scriptures warn us of false teachers like you! I will pray to the Blessed Mother that she may obtain for you from Christ the grace for your darkened eyes to be opened and you come to know the Truth that will set you free!

[@1962mrpaul]

+Dr. Alan Hales [1]The RCC, If any man says he is justified by faith WITHOUT works of satisfaction, let him be anathema. Bible: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24) [2]The RCC, there are many heavenly intercessors, Mary and all the saints. Bible: “And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of incense, which are the prayers of saints.” (Revelation 5:8) “Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.” (Revelation 8:3-4) [3]The RCC, Mary was sinless. Bible: “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and hers.” (Genesis 3:15) The seed is Jesus, the woman is Mary. They are both at enmity with the serpent.

[@momthree789]

Father Mitch explained his position very well.

[@Thamac15]

I never thought about the thief on the cross and "on this day you will be with me in paradise", but Jesus doesn't ascend to Heaven until the third day. How come I have NEVER thought about this? Wow!

[@chrystianrodriquez]

+Thamac15 I KNOW RIGHT?! I was thinking on that the other day, and couldn't understand how the thief, not being holy enough to enter Heaven, had been told by Jesus THAT! It fits so freaking well!

[@timspangler8440]

+Chrystian Gallegos He said TODAY you will be with me in PARADISE. Paradise is Heaven.

[@chrystianrodriquez]

That "today" was for Jesus to go to the land of the dead. Since He then spent 3 days in it, not go directly to Heaven.

[@momthree789]

Jesus rose from the dead on the third day and ascended to Heaven 40 days later.

[@sdboyd]

Thamac15 One thing to ponder is there is no comma or voice inflections available when reading this Scripture. We don’t know if Christ meant, “I say to you this day, you will be with me in Paradise eventually”. I have no idea what He actually meant but this interpretation is possible. Meanings get lost in written translations.

[@archie2473]

Wow! I'm Catholic!

[@roundtable3501]

This show is so biased. John Ankerberg is supposed to be a moderator.

[@roundtable3501]

+Paul Johnson you are so right

[@TJsMusicUploads]

Please visit #vaticancatholic on youtube. Vatican two is the great apostasy. The church is in remnants as Jesus said would happen (Luke18:8, Mat24:37). Very few will be saved, go there now..

[@thedon978]

Father Pachwa is brilliant.

[@craventref]

In fact, in Matthew 5: 25-26, Jesus says “Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.”

[@diversityofideasnotidentit5213]

Unless you see the difference between the means of justification for the Jews in Matthew-John and for the Church (Romans - Philemon), unless you rightly divide the Word of God (2 Tim 2:15), you will be stuck with good works and purgatory.

[@craventref]

there is a purgatory 1Pet 3:18-20; 4:6 - Jesus preached to spirits in prison 2Tim 1:16-18 - Paul prays for dead friend Onesiphorus 1Cor 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people baptizing for the dead

[@HamptonSkylar]

Question did all the prophets get their lips purged?

[@thebiblestudyhelper9389]

No only Isiah

[@HamptonSkylar]

The Church finishes the Bible in 3-years if you go to mass everyday. If bowing is sinful can you tell me why in 2ndKings1:13 " When the third captain had climbed the hill, he fell to his knees before Elijah, pleading with him." There is over 50 times when people bow to others as a sign of respect. Protestants changed the second commandment, If images are wrong why did Solom put images all over the temple? Why does the ark have 2 images of angels? Christ is "image of the invisible God" (Col1:15)

[@timharris2291]

He never answers the question, which is how to reconcile the sanctifying purpose of Purgatory with the "vicarious atonement" that can be applied to them by masses and indulgences performed on earth.

[@georgepenton808]

What the priest means is that a Mass said for a soul in Purgatory, or an indulgence gained for a soul in Purgatory, reduces the length and the severity of the soul for which it is offered. "It is a good and wholesome thing to pray for the dead so that they might be loosed from their sins". --2 Maccabees 12:46.

[@timharris2291]

Re-listen from the beginning, but especially 1:15 to 1:30. Here, the question is whether there is not an inconsistency in denying vicarious atonement of the Righteousness of God on the one hand, while on the other asserting a kind of vicarious atonement by the application of the treasury of merits of people on earth to relieve the suffering of those in Purgatory. Both you and the Father ignore this and jump right into proof texts for Purgatory per se, which is a different question.

[@HamptonSkylar]

Answer my initial question is bowing down worship? There are over a dozen incidents brother where people bow/fell down to/gave homage to another who is not God. However, it was done to worship the other person but out of respect. When someone in China bows to their friend when they greet each other are they worshiping each other? "The church of the living God the pillar of truth"(1Tim3:15), it doesn't say your interpretation is truth. Which church was founded by Christ & gave us the bible.

[@havenofear7033]

God says not to bow down to idols.

[@timharris2291]

The point of the parable is to do something to avoid going to prison (hell), not to hint that after all, eventually you'll be "released" in any case. This is as silly as those that take the parable of the laborers to justify exploitative capitalism. A parable is to drive home a particular point, not give a compendious allegory of life. These proof texts are like examples from a book on logical fallacies. Y'all would be better off to give up the attempt, and simply say "the pope says so."

[@HamptonSkylar]

He did answer the question. You are blinded by your protestant bias. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man is in purgatory praying for his relatives. Those in hell cannot behold the glory of God, for to be cut off from God is death, and sin is death. A person in hell doesn't feel charity/love for anyone, because charity/love is God (John4:8), and God cannot inhabit Gehenna.

[@havenofear7033]

The priest says the Catholic church equivocates Purgatory with Abraham's Bosom, but that Paradise was emptied and sealed after the captives were released from it as scripture says. All those who shared the faith of Abraham were captives in a holding area, across from Hades/Hell, waiting to see the Christ of the Old Testament. Without Christ, they could not go to Heaven. They only had a dim knowledge of God passed down to them through oral tradition. They had faith and were obedient to what they heard before they died, but when Jesus came to receive them to Himself as His inheritance, He was fully revealed to them. I know He spoke the Gospel to them. Since death was swallowed up in victory from the cross to Abraham's Bosom, once we hear the Gospel and believe it, we have nothing to prevent us from going straight to The Father in Heaven. Jesus is not mere oral tradition now. We heard about God before, but as Job said, now we have seen Him with our eyes. He indwells us and bears witness that we are the children of God. How shameful that His once for all time sacrifice is not deemed worthy to the Catholic System of Religion. How cruel to dangle the carrot of salvation and put a yoke of bondage upon sincere people who are taught by dogma instead of good doctrine. Man cannot repair the damage done by his sin. man must rest in Jesus sacrifice and be born again by an intelligent, conscious decision made as based on the Bible, not the Popes permission

[@thekam3588]

HNF Abuse Recovery: You have spoken truth. Yes, Rome denies the sufficiency of Jesus sacrifice.

[@HamptonSkylar]

How do you read it when Saint Paul says, "Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory" (II Tim 2:10). Also " rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions" (Col 1:24). Did the people who carried the crippled to be cure of by Jesus have to "work" (Mark 2:1-12)? What is the point of praying for others, who are unbelievers?

[@diversityofideasnotidentit5213]

The Bible is so biased against the Roman Catholic Church. You are forced to choose between the two. We better choose who is greater.

[@HamptonSkylar]

I am sorry added a zero, hopefully you will forgive me sir. Old Testament Jews believed in purgatory, using Zechariah13:9 "'I will bring the third part into the fire and refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried", also I Samuel 2:6 "He [the Lord] bringeth down to Sheol and bringeth up again." YHWH says Isaiah's lips were purified & his "guilt is swept away, thy sin pardoned." It doesn't say 'purity was needed to be a spokesmen for God.'

[@craventref]

Its not about the Popes says so! Jesus explained that many more truths will come later, for they could not bear it yet. Jesus promised that He will send the paraclete to guide His Vicar to reveal the truth. the only church that can see those truths like the purgatory ix the church Jesus founded upon the rock.

[@piqlol]

(2Tim) if you read the verse it clearly is a prayer from Paul to God for a blessing to the "οἶκος" household, family,house of Onesiphorus as gratitude for his help towards Paul. (1Cor) John 3:36 he who is ("baptized" identified) with Christ and believe in him has everlasting life he who does not is dead already, not "baptizing for the dead". Peace

[@georgepenton808]

The souls in Purgatory have everlasting life. They are saved. They will not go to Hell. No soul ever goes from Purgatory to Hell.

[@timharris2291]

The point is that neither the Isaiah passage nor Zechariah is talking about something after death -- it is in the here and now. I don't think jews believed in Purgatory -- can you name even one jewish scholar that makes such a claim? But in any case, like Father Pacque (sp?) you are changing the subject. Pretend contrary to fact there is a Purgatory. The question is, how is it that indulgences help out, yet the merits of Christ's death are insufficient? That is the question posed by this video.

[@jenward8877]

What a twisting of scripture. The Catholic 'scholar' Pacqwa completely ignores multiple scriptural verses that effectively state that the dead are asleep in their graves (Acts 2:29, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Daniel 12:2) to name just a few. Never mind the fact that Scripture (particularly the account of the blasphemy against The Holy Spirit in Mark 3:28-29) show that the Greek word "aion" is translated to age or generation, not world, and according to Spiros Zodhiates, Th. D. and the Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible, it proves that there can be no change in the verdict in either this life, or the next (afterlife), completely nullifying the notion of Purgatory. And we will not go into the scripturally forbidden notion of praying to the dead saints. Necromancy (communication with the dead) is forbidden in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. So, praying for the dead to the dead saints is a sin (as they are asleep in their graves). Pray to the only one known to be alive again - Jesus. His grave is empty. Praise GOD

[@lostsheepofjesus2136]

Each of your objections can be addressed. But I want to put you on the spot. Can you point me to a verse where Jesus teaches how we can know a truth on a matter? (Many people disagree on a host of doctrine and for what is and what is not sinful)

[@jenward8877]

@@lostsheepofjesus2136 , if you are specifically asking what Jesus himself said, it would depend on what exactly you mean. He talked about discerning truth in situations of judging (John 7:24, Matthew 7:1-6), as well as knowing a true prophet vs. a false prophet (Matthew 24:24). He also advised us to keep an abundance of our spiritual oil, so that we may rightly divine the times and seasons (Matthew 24 also). As I am not exactly sure what context you are meaning, and you were specific about it coming from Jesus (as opposed to Paul, or another writer), I may need you to clarify which discernment type of the truth you are asking about. Please, and Thank you. GOD Bless

[@TJsMusicUploads]

@@jenward8877 Hi, Mr T here. Google is censoring my other channel, so i have to use this one. ====== I hope this exchange will be in the spirit of truth. I sincerely hope you will turn to the truth, as I sincerely hope I have the faith that I work out in fear and trembling(One way or another I want to highlight humility, as the only natural remedy to pride which blinds us). I will pray for you but I cannot say God bless as you do. St. John teaches us not to do so with those outside his church(Because it esteems false doctrine/church's{NOTE: and this is a very important note, you say God bless to someone who is Catholic, who you believe twist scripture as you state above catholic teachings twist scripture, so already you are in contradiction/error}). ''If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you.'' - 2John 1:10 [I am aware other translations say ''do not greet'' instead of God speed. That would be part of the problem. Worth noting that do not greet is antithetical to spreading the gospel so God speed makes much more sense.] 1st: I want to note that you accuse Pacqwa of twisting scripture, seem to profess that you yourself dont twist it, and that you know what your talking about. 2nd: I ask for scripture that Jesus teaches how we can know truth on a matter which specifies what is sinfull what is not. There is a verse(well three in the same chapter), that if you had if known your scripture you would have pointed me to it. There is a reason you dont give me the passage(It contradicts the non-catholic position) BUT I dont know if you did it consciously or unconsciously. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. 3rd: The verses you give do not pertain to my direct question. ==== The Verse I was looking for The verse's I was looking for was Mat 18:15-17. I have a simple question, Jesus gives us a way to know truth on all matters(leading up to verse 17, that not to trust ourselves, or the witnesses{because we both know there are many opinions out there} but to trust the church itself. That if the person in question still disagrees with the church they are to be considered a Gentile/tax-collector{excommunicated}). My question is, which of the 30,000+ denominations should I go to find out truth on a matter as Jesus says we can in these verses? [Bearing in mind not only do they differ on small matters, big and small sin, but on how to go to heaven eg - grace alone, faith alone, faith + works, by sola scriptura etc etc]

[@TJsMusicUploads]

@@jenward8877 Btw I have to add this because its too important. Vatican two is the great apostasy and can be proven in great detail(Worth noting Pacqwa is apart of this apostasy, sad to say). The Catholic church is the true church, but it is in remnants as Jesus said would happen in the last days (Luke18:8 , Mat24:37). We have had no Pope since PiusXII(1958) and JP2 is the antichrist, the man of sin in Thessalonian's. You NEED to go to #vaticancatholic on youtube for the full truth. There is NO salvation outside Jesus' church. The 1st two videos I recommend for you are ''The antichrist Identified'' and then ''Babylon has fallen fallen'' Make sure you watch them to the end. There is much much more on that channel, so watch everything. Again, praying for you.

[@okballer]

@loreto808 Ehh I wouldn't say that he "destroyed" them haha, you didn't even hear martin's response...

[@bluecollarjob]

purgatory and limbo?

[@georgepenton808]

I believe in both.

[@85008godzilla]

The Catholic church is the true church

[@lostsheepofjesus2136]

Yes, but we are in the great apostasy which is vatican two. You must not go to the new mass. Go to #vaticancatholic on youtube and watch everything. I recommend you watch 'why the new mass is invalid' (15 mins is all you need). Then in order, watch the full video ''The antichrist identified'' and then 'Babylon has fallen fallen'' [make sure you watch them to the end]. There is much much more.. The true faithful are in remnants (Luke 18:8, Mat24:37)

[@naturalismforever3469]

MONEY BACK GUARANTEE????

[@F84Thunderjet]

If you were raised in pre-Vatican II days and attended Catholic school taught by nuns and priests (no lay teachers in those days) you knew the difference between perfect contrition and imperfect contrition. Religion was the first class every day and after 8 years, we could recite the Catechism verbatim. Every Catholic kid knew that almost ALL confessions were imperfect. Perfect contrition required sorrow solely based on having offended God. Death immediately following a perfect confession resulted in going straight to Heaven. However, if the penitent's motivation for confession included any degree of fear of punishment, the confession was valid but, imperfect. So even though you made a valid confession, the descriptions of suffering by fire was so heavily emphasized throughout all those school years, it was almost impossible not to have a least some fear as motivation to go to confession. Thus virtually all confessions were imperfect and suffering in the fire of Purgatory was mandatory for the remission of all confessed sins, mortal and venial. We all believed we were destined to burn for some unknown amount of time in Purgatory, so many sought the indulgences printed on various pages of our Sunday Missals. They were printed in red at the bottom of the page, explaining what had to be done (say so many rosaries, participate in a novena, pray the Stations of the Cross, etc.). Included was the number of days deducted from your time in Purgatory. Teaching children to live in fear is abject, psychological child abuse.

[@lostsheepofjesus2136]

Are you giving out that Catholics have educated people? You are aware they are the most charitable organization of all time right? Not to mention is where the 1st modern hospitals/university's come from.. You sound like a moany teenager. Btw Vatican two is the end times great apostasy and can be proven many ways(this proves the catholic church to be true). Go to vaticancatholic for the truth, you wont find it anywhere else on-line, the true faithful are in remnants as Jesus said would happen in the last days (Luke 18:8, Mat24:37) Jesus said follow the narrow path and that wide is the path to destruction.. Or maybe you think Jesus is just fearmongering????

[@jakemarks633]

What a misunderstanding of 1 Peter 3:18. Of course Jesus did not go down unto some sort of prison. Peter is saying that the Holy Spirit that raised Jesus body on the third day is the same Spirit by which the word of Christ was preached to those in the prison house of sin back in the days of Noah. You will notice in chapter one the Holy Spirit is called "the Spirit of Christ".

[@lansan3430]

Yes catholics, you we're deceived! You really have to ask help from our Lord Yahshua/Jesus.

[@HamptonSkylar]

Purgatory gives license to sin? How so? If anyone gives license to sin it is your teaching of Christ did everything so we did not need to be obedient and obey Christ, by " For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works" (Ephesian2:10). Respond to me with scripture. Purgatory is very scriptural and came out of Christ's own mouth. In the same way the trinity came out of Christ's own mouth. We both believe Christ taught the trinity, yet he never said the word "trinity"

[@georgepenton808]

Purgatory is a very painful place. How does it constitute a license to sin? Isn't that like saying jail constitutes a license to commit crime?

[@naldovaz9157]

No way, don't thrust any Catholic priest.

[@georgepenton808]

Then you can't trust Jesus because Jesus is a Catholic priest. Jesus is THE high priest of the Catholic Church.

[@naldovaz9157]

@@georgepenton808 read the Bible for yourself and you will not find the Catholic Church or it's teachings no where.... In fact you will find the teachings of the Catholic Church are against God's word.. l use to be Catholic ok.. stop being a fool

[@anthonylangford8575]

@@naldovaz9157 Where do you think the Christian Bible came from? Did it float down from Heaven wrapped in a nice leather cover with the initials KJB?!

[@naldovaz9157]

@@anthonylangford8575 l did my research.... Why do you think I am no longer Catholic

[@anthonylangford8575]

@@naldovaz9157 Because you are full of pride and misguided perhaps?

[@furblongit]

More info about imaginary places that have no location in time or space

[@menarddr]

Father Mitch's Doctorate seems to be in Assumptions of the Bible.

[@Daniel_Abraham1099]

@Dan C. how do you know that those books are inspired? Where did you get your table of contents? Why cant I have the diache, shepherd of Hermes, gospel if Peter, letters of Clement or any other books in my new testament?

[@naturalismforever3469]

MONEY BACK GUARANTEE????