What is the Truth? What is God?

[@TheJMPD]

G'kar was correct when he responded "You don't want the answer to that question." He gave them an answer they didn't like, because that answer required them to think, contemplate, and integrate difficult concepts. When G'kar realized, he gave them the simple, meme-able sound bite they wanted. A platitude that would make them feel as if they had stumbled upon a universal truth.

[@a-sheep-of-christ]

I disagree. Infact:the method Gkar is using is the very reason Christianity became such a mess, with its institution favoring sophistry and excuses over honesty and straightforwardness. Because pragmatic, honest and stoic approaches force the person living by it to alter their course and confront themselves with hard truths, rather than making compromises: the church and modern religions have chosen the latter: instead of going through the painful process of accepting the former as modus operandi. Gkar would cause strife, disunity, and feed his listeners lukewarm tidbits of knowledge, never really giving his people a good foundation to stand on, choosing to appease people superficially - ultimately starving them spiritually. And that is really evil...

[@pantarei8382]

The true answer is god is nothing because he does not exist !! That is what the light on the wall really means..

[@a-sheep-of-christ]

@@Grauenwolf Edit: I'm all for not compromising. Gkars ideas are weak theosophy and a joke. I'd prefer a scientific or a pure uncompromised theological view of the universe. Let's explore your claim for a moment: So you're claiming that no man in any church has ever heard the voice of God? How did you come to that conclusion? Did you run a study and questioned those very people you're talking about? Or is this just a false claim of yours fueled by your ego and own perception of reality? leaving aside the fact that you can't possibly achieve this: say you knew without fail which priest thought to have heard the voice of God and which not: How would you know whether or not those claims were real? And even if they are real: can you believe those claims without any substantiation? If the answer is yes, then history provides a plethora of accounts to disprove your claim. But you would still lack conclusive evidence. If the answer is no, how could anyone convince you even if he had heard the voice of God and this were a fact? I'm giving you the benefit of doubt here: as I hope you understand neither your personal (lack of) understanding of the sciences nor general consensus are absolute proof for anything in this world. Your implied claim that "from... The pope... To the lowest shepherd" there is not a single man who heard the voice of a God is absolutely baseless and driven by your personal opinion but not evidence. If you were half as rational as you pretend to be you'd understand why I reject Gkars deistic and pseudo-intellectual attempt to "feed" his feeble minded flock.

[@sometimeslol5578]

@@pantarei8382 dust you are and to dust you shall return. We are written in the book of life and will live forever

[@simonjacksons]

@@pantarei8382 That's a very hollow answer, you simply assume you are right like those who assume there to be one or even many. You direct your lantern toward an empty room when there is a garden behind you.

[@AgentExeider]

G'kar realized they weren't ready.

[@loka7783]

That's a nice way of saying there are a lot of spaceships flying overhead at that moment, completely unnoticed. ;)

[@maintaint3003]

I think the scene makes the point that people, at large, are not interested in long-form philosophical discourses, but want simple and easily repeated slogans. It's like B5 predicted Twitter. _God is the mouth_ #god #mouth

[@alexthegordonhighlander1159]

Published 13 years ago, 1,400 views and 5 comments with a title like that!? Very strange. Masterful performance by the actor and masterfully written.

[@lunaticbz3594]

The algorithm gods must've at least slightly heard your cry, 2500 views at the moment.

[@sylph4252]

I bring good news. 14k views and 61 comments

[@alexthegordonhighlander1159]

@@sylph4252 Outstanding!!

[@alexthegordonhighlander1159]

@@lunaticbz3594 praise to the algo gods 😁

[@a_teonnai-ki8049]

This scene is a perfect example why Babylone 5 needs a remaster (with re-imagined CGI, special effects, re-mastered sound) - not a remake. I doubt very much JMS and new showrunners will capture the essence of what made the show the phenomenon it was. For the Babylone 5 was a result of a combination of circumstances at that very time. The river has changed since

[@dice_for_death]

This dialogue has remained with me since viewing it that first time, back in the 90s. G'kar is absolute.

[@dreammirrorbrony1240]

Civilizations have asking these questions since the begining of time. One person's answer may not be the same as another's. There is no universal answer for all, but I do agree the search for those answers is as equally important as the answers themselves.

[@ladwigs]

Babylon 5, had a big heart, & morals What's been going on in the last few years, kinda relates back to this show

[@718EngrCo]

I love G’kar’s coat! The costume department could have made some money with an online store!

[@jeffpettit3119]

Can I go sit and listen to G'Kar for a while? Even if I get lost I feel like I'll leave better for it....

[@harripursiainen5420]

This is one of best moment in Babylon 5.

[@braunjackson6384]

This guy could preach anything. It doesn’t matter if it’s positive or negative.

[@lunaticbz3594]

A lesson I've learned from G'kar is when I look at different religions and belief systems in our world I ask myself if they are concerned with the truth. If they are seeking the truth I believe they will lead to positive outcomes, at least more often then not. But any system that doesn't concern itself with the truth, that does not seek the truth but attempts to tell you the unquestionable "truth"... Be vary wary.

[@EpochUnlocked]

In matters of truth, the more you know, the more miserable you become. People aren't really looking for truth. They're looking for happiness. Ignorance is bliss.

[@anthonydesroches8897]

@@EpochUnlocked I seek the truth of the living God. Yes there is sorrow but the sorrow comes from knowing who u was. And the Word of God gives you hope and then brings joy in knowing you have salvation. For God says the road to Heaven is a narrow road and only a few are on it. There is only one truth and one God.

[@kingfisher1638]

@@EpochUnlocked Not only that, truth would burn away all the lies peoples use to protect themselves from judgement. To seek truth fully is something fearful because it strips away your defenses. The reason why truth seekers tend to be miserable is because they tend to be few or alone in a sea of terrified liars who avoid truth at all costs.

[@xellos5262]

The thing is that our society works better when we lie. Truth is in the way of procreation, in the way of social bonds, and in the way of personal gains. Truth is a luxury good, which makes the richest man poor, and only few can afford such a commitment. They are neither envied nor cherished, and they will always die alone and be forgotten. Who would strife for such a thing?

[@anthonydesroches8897]

@@xellos5262 your wrong that's Santan ways not Gods way. That's why the world is the way it is. Almost all people wanna follow Satan that's why it is the way it is.

[@Tater2000]

"Plato's Cave".

[@mainstreetsaint36]

G'Kar's Lamp.

[@Crazael]

Not really. Plato's cave is about how everything we perceive are just pale imitations of their true selves. G'Kar's Lamp is about how God is linked to the search for Truth.

[@drakejohnson5386]

My interpretation of what G'kar is saying that to find truth you need three things, a curious mind that wants to learn (the person pointing the lamp), an open mind -empty of pre conceptions (the whole us getting in the way of the light) and an absence of ego (the reason God can look like us). The first point about if you don't bring a lamp then aren't looking for answers is pretty cut and dry to me. When it comes to having an open mind, that is something I think is up for debate. If you were a believer in a god, and you go on a pilgrimage to find God, you will find him. Or at least so would you think. If you come to the search with narrow parameters or with the belief that God exists and nothing can convince you otherwise, you will convince yourself that you have found God. I am not saying definitely that there is no god, to do so would make me as close minded as those who believe completely without questioning their assumptions. This need for bringing an open mind is important when trying to find the truth about anything. If you look at homelessness and come in with the disposition that homelessness is a choice or just being indigent, then your analysis will be skewed to find that as the reasons for homelessness. And any evidence to the contrary would either be a footnote, evidence for your own theory or not even mentioned in your report. You found your answer, why investigate further? The close minded individual would think. And that perspective could actually potentially do some good, rarely, but it is possible. If you think that lack of funds is the reason for homelessness, who would be doing more to fix the issue? The guy who spends 3 months writing a report that the homeless needs money then spending the next 10 years fundraising or the person who spends 10 years finding every reason people in a community are homeless, then only has 3 months to fundraise for the nuanced reasons that homelessness exists? Both outlooks have their advantages. Needing a lack of ego is just as vital as having an open mind. If you tied your identity as a god-fearing person who has a community of people who all follow that doctrine, if you found evidence that God may not exist, would you report it? Would you purposely leave a community and identify that you have built up your entire life, just because there is the possibility God doesn't exist? Most people wouldn't. Also if you were a godly man who believes that his actions are those ordained by God, how would you deal with the fact that you are the sole person responsible for your actions. That your actions aren't inherently moral because God said so. If you were a community leader and your country is Christan nation and finds it's roots in the Judeo-Christian faith, then nothing you or your country does can be seen as wrong. Fighting frivolous wars for decades or believing that homosexuality is just wrong is easy to believe if you think the arbiter of morality approves of these actions, despite the pain or suffering these acts may inflict. To go from feeling you could do no wrong as long as you follow the rules in your holy text, to having to think of your actions are actually making the world a better place would be rather difficult and few could even make that transition. On G'kar's statement on why God oddly always looks a lot like us is because we get our ego in the way. If you envisioned as a man with a booming voice, then that sets the standard of what all men should strive to achieve. If a part of the population couldn't dream of imitating your idea of God, then why would you emphasize or show sympathy? In the Catholic church only men can be priests because according to them, Jesus choose to be born as a man, thus they should follow his example by making sure only men are in charge of the church. This whole "God looking like us" isn't just a Christan thing. The Norse believed that All father Oden looked exactly like us and made us to look like him. Babylon 5 even shows this with the season 2 ender where Kosh looked different depending on what race was looking at his angelic form. All the species saw a creature of light, with wings, a desirable body. The only difference was the face. The drazi can't conceive their gods/angels could have any resemblances that aren't shared with the drazi. They may have even lost their faith if they saw a human face rather than a drazi one. I hope I explained myself completely, if I didn't please let me know how your thoughts diverge

[@IIVVBlues]

The character G'Kar reminds me, in many ways, of Alexandr Solzhenitsyn.

[@CaptPoco]

They went off to establish a river-based religion which worships water, has baptisms for everything, and meets at the literal mouth of rivers.

[@seanrobert9661]

Beyond the rim ,we shall never know his like again

[@NickJohnCoop]

There always people like the guy who asked the same question after that rather revelatory lecture. The only way to deal with them is to do what G’kar did.The equivalent of jangling a set of keys.

[@SeanArcherSDA]

self actualisation is but the first step

[@KatriceMetaluna]

What is love?

[@akigreus9424]

As they say in the Aura Belief field when someone says EM. "Baby don't Hz me."

[@alexthegordonhighlander1159]

The baseline frequency of harmonic creation in this realm.

[@Eric-mx1eh]

..but a second hand emotion. :)

[@daverhoden445]

A strange old -fashioned notion.

[@davidastle9472]

God

[@scasny]

this is why i like B5. Even thou its heavily religious there are glimpse of atheism and critical thinking.

[@tonoornottono]

i don’t know that what he said was atheistic at all. his point, to butcher it, was that you cannot see or explain or describe god. that the spiritual journey feeds and nurtures itself on its own spirit. that projection is the only way to perception, and so it is impossible to set aside yourself and view god directly. god doesn’t exist, and it does. it’s just a matter of describing what there is in different ways.

[@scasny]

@@tonoornottono ok the lamp is the full understanding of the universe (our goal) and the light is the universe it self. So we assume the light on the wall, universe is god. The more we look, research and study the more we know, more we see and understand the universe thus brighter the light. And someone who not search or bring lantern with him (truth, critical thinking) see nothing meaning living in ignorance. So if we get in the way of the search for truth (understanding the universe, the lamp) meaning implying meaning were is none. Projecting our self biases and narratives, like religions doo. Hiding truth about their origin, not allowing certain question, topics or knowledge not brining the lantern. Just because he use light as a example it not mean it have to have religious meaning or symbolism Im full fledged brainwashed catholic that snap out of it. I know how religious propaganda look and this is not it. I cant remember were i seen similar scene with a candle but was actually religious themed.

[@OspreyKnight]

J. Michael Straczynski is an Atheist who doesn't hate religion, but ignorance and the hate ignorance causes.

[@GigaBoost]

What show is this??

[@Kolokommouna]

Babylon 5

[@BladeOfLight16]

A foolish answer for a foolish question from a foolish asker.

[@pantarei8382]

Great writing .. but g'kar does say here that god does not exist.. that's what the light on the wall really means ... But weaker minds will never accept that it is their own arrogance that creates god

[@awells444]

I do not think G’Kar is saying there is no god but that what we see as a higher power is more a reflection of us and less a message from god. God may still exist but we cannot see it until we can see all of it.

[@ummerfarooq5383]

Did you just suggest that light comes out of your eyes.

[@RobertEWaters]

The most banal moment in a great series.

[@Crazael]

I think it's one of the best moments in the entire series. G'kar explains a very deep truth here with great eloquence. What he says here is absolutely true.

[@conservativemike3768]

I’m lost… lights, lamps, searches? Stupid question anyway…

[@Crazael]

It's not that complicated, really. Truth and God are linked in that what is perceived as god is a byproduct, a result of people looking for god, and that Truth is that search and God is a reflection of ourselves. Sometimes, people get in the way of that search and decide that God is like them, or they look away from it, and see nothing.

[@RayNaraine]

Actually... God is the river.

[@EpochUnlocked]

This is what memes were born from.

[@mikemoore2791]

God is the one who created intelligent physical beings with the brains to learn to build a wall, a lamp, and search for knowledge. Philosophy is delusional ramblings of those who deny god, and seek their own glory amongst equally foolish creatures.

[@xellos5262]

Knowing that it was foolish creatures that went to the moon, foolish creatures who split the atom, and foolish creatures that created this show... I am very content with being a foolish creature, ignorant of the god I cannot see, comprehend, or proof. I do not need it to enjoy my life, in fact I enjoy it better than most of his followers.

[@astral_haze]

And then he decided to make it impossible to rationally believe in him, and instead want's people to baselessly assume he exists, and if they don't he will torture them for eternity or destroy them sounds like a real pleasant guy and not at all like a mythical being created to strike fear into people in the stone age

[@truckwarrior5944]

Religion is literally part of philosophy. If philosophy is delusional ramblings, than religion is too.

[@astral_haze]

i just realised ive made a grave mistake somehow; i put an apostrophe in "wants," turning it into either a possessive noun or a contraction of "want is" i guess im lucky though since that sentence still would make more sense than the reasoning behind the jesus story, or the supposed reasons to believe in yahweh, or the "the universe couldn't exist if nobody created it but gods existence doesn't require anyone to make him or his own higher universe he exists in"

[@catzkeet4860]

And attitudes like yours are why most people have no interest in “god”. Because his believers all seem to be self righteous prats like you who are happy to condemn anyone that doesn’t believe as they do