What is THIS for?!

Budget Airlines are known for their added fees for seating, coffee, checking in, and probably a "Hi, how are ya" from the staff. But are these unfair and unenforceable as a matter of consumer contract law?
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[@GariSullivan]

I remember years ago the law was: if the fee is compulsory it MUST be included in the displayed ticket price. That seems to not be happening here.

[@javiTests]

I just commented saying exactly the same 😄

[@Farming-Technology]

That sounds far too reasonable to be true...

[@andrewmargan5677]

I thought that was EU and UK law too!

[@KevinHorrox]

The compulsory fees that are legally required to be included in the ticket price are the fees payable by the airline to the airport and authorities, such as duty tax, airport tax, fuel, and insurance. These additional "compulsory" fees, like the automated surcharge, are not fees paid by the airline to the airport or governing authority and are not legally required to be included in the price of the actual ticket. However, they do need to be clearly defined before you hit the pay/confirm button, which it seems they are. Here's an intriguing question: Is it possible to book a ticket for the same price without utilizing the automation service? The legality of such a scenario could spark a fascinating discussion.

[@hishers251]

Airlines are disgusting, they are dishonest, all of them.

[@NickAskew]

If you went to the supermarket and picked up a tin of beans labelled 45p but at the checkout you saw a 'shop lighting fee' and a 'shelf stacking fee' and a 'automated door fee' and a 'cash handling fee' plus a checkout staffing fee or 'automated checkout provision fee ' you might be right to feel aggrieved even if legally those fees were listed in tiny little letters on a poster by the entrance. These charges remind me of buying concert tickets on Ticket b****** years ago. They just invented all sorts of costs to hike up the price of the transaction.

[@OH2023-cj9if]

Supermarkets are splitting businesses so the warehouse and distribution is charging their own Supermarkets. That's why shops altered their stock and reordering system to only order if shelves were empty. It made it look like we had food shortages when all the food was in warehouses. Shops were avoiding penalty clauses. It was a similar money grab that breweries tried on pubs.

[@tastytechaddictsmtb]

Funny you say that as in the usa the price on the shelf isn’t the price you end up paying at the till

[@sejtam]

@@tastytechaddictsmtb not his fault that the US is a backwards country 🙂

[@WhiteDieselShed]

Buy tickets from the touts outside, they maybe ripping you off less than the ticket sellers and their prices are given before you buy them no multitude of addons that you cannot remove.

[@stuinNorway]

The most absurd one I've seen is a "card transaction fee" in tickets applied to each ticket, not per booking. OK card transactions have a cost, but on a debit card that's the same if I buy 1 ticket or 4...

[@chilleddriving1455]

Having an online ordering system *saves* them money. A systems surcharge is silly. What's next, a plane surcharge?

[@randommusic4567]

Next charge, is for the birthday cake for Sheila who cleans the toilets at the airlines head office

[@kevinstaddon8517]

Don't give them ideas

[@RupertReynolds1962]

Fascinating Aida made the point in thrir Cheap Flights "If you haven't paid to use the stairs you'll have to feckin jump!"

[@pulau6481]

It's depressing that we have got to the point that any of this is reasonable. Its not reasonable to advertise a price and then throw other mandatory charges in

[@Graham_Shaw]

So basically, they want customers to pay for the automated system they brought in to save them having to pay people to process bookings. Nice!

[@simonharris4873]

Here's a really easy way to tell if it's fair or not. They advertise a price to get you from A to B. If you can't fly from A to B with them, without paying more than that price, then it's not fair. Simple.

[@andrewstevens7453]

Some of their charges may well be legal, but they are still misleading imo 😡 They start off quoting a 'from' price but always ends up much more by the time I pay

[@googlecontrolled]

So we get a fee for automated payment when you do it yourself online! But if you go to a check in/ service desk and speak to a human being you also get charged a fee for not using an automated system 😮

[@lesleywatkins1172]

It makes me cross that the price you see isn’t the final price! The add ons are ridiculous!

[@darrenbathurst]

The ad blocker probably included a pop-up blocker. Companies know this and use this to put the additional fees on a pop up.

[@jayzo]

Regarding the story at the end of the gentleman who had his wheelchair lost at the airport, who is liable, the airline, the handling agent who loaded it onto the plane, subsequently lost it and presumably also damaged it in the process, or the agency (if not the airport itself) who is hired by the airport to assist PRMs (persons of reduced mobility) who left him in the terminal. If he was stuck there he most likely could not have walked off the plane and would've been assisted off by _someone_ unless the crew were particularly unhelpful and just wanted him off the aircraft.

[@pauljohnson4590]

I was so pleased my Ryanair trip offered me one way at £18 and the other at £15 - so for the wife and I that's great less than £72! £180.52 was the actual price!

[@tastytechaddictsmtb]

Because you’re adding on loads of stuff, stop aging luggage and all the other things and you get the price advertised

[@simonharris4873]

@@tastytechaddictsmtb Plus a fee.

[@darren25061965]

Same happened to me with Ryanair £69 for a return flight, then I clicked NO on all upgrades and extras, I was then required to pick a seat, so I selected one priced at £0 (there were 12 available), the final price for my return flight was £204, I did not have any luggage.

[@tastytechaddictsmtb]

@@darren25061965 you aren’t required to pick a seat, you have to wait until 24 hours before you fly, the system then automatically allocates you a seat

[@insightphoto]

@@darren25061965 I don't beleive you. There's something you've missed or something you're not telling us

[@timsaint835]

I got charged an out of hours surcharge fee by my solicitor, when I questioned it they said they had woken up in the night and thought about my case!

[@terrygibbs]

The frustration is that the advertised fare is misleading. If a service fee is always going to be added then it should be included in the calculation for the advertised fare.

[@lewisgregory769]

Hiding fees until check out is immoral, for sure.

[@Real-Ruby-Red]

@@lewisgregory769if it isn’t already it should be illegal. Money/companies don’t give a damn about morals or society

[@chrisdixon5241]

Came here to make the same comment. Whilst it may not be illegal or unfair, it is an attempt to make the ticket appear cheaper than it is to encourage purchase. If there is no way for me to avoid the additional fee, then I would argue that it should be included in the ticket price during the pricing stage and broken out as a fee at the payment stage, exactly like the administration fee is.

[@SyncViews]

It's not just airlines, lots of online booking things promote a price in adverts/searches then add fees when get to checkout. The per-ticket added fees should just be considered false advertising as it is impossible to get the advertised price...

[@jons9721]

If you are buying an concert ticking a agency/booking fee is normally clear in the advertised price

[@imsbvs]

I compared flights between Turin & London, found fares with BA which included luggage were lower than Ryanair after inclusion of the luggage (hand luggage and hold luggage). This excludes seat selection.

[@mrmajestic7391]

ALL these extra fees are unfair. Its not like you have any choice in not paying them. The advertised price for the ticket should be the final price you pay.

[@lordstevewilson1331]

I think it's more of a search results manipulation, I bet they don't show the price after fees on it.

[@treeoflifeenterprises]

if an airline advertises a price for a flight and it is impossible to travel at that price because they add unavoidable extras, whatever the label, then it would be safe to say that the service is not as advertised, especially when the advertised prices are amalagamated for price comparison sites, and the airline is deliberately listing lower prices than it is possible for someone to pay to get the advertised flight. They are advertising an incomplete price, purely to apear cheaper compared to other airlines. If it were any other industry, customers would find in unacceptable. If I buy a can of pop from the local store, the packaging and distribution is not added ontop of the advertised price in the store. the airline industry have already been called to task for adding airport landing fees as extras in their pricing. It sounds like they need to be taken to task again for deliberately misleading customers by not showing the actual prices they charge. You can guarentee that as their booking system is online it is impossible to order a ticket without using the "automated system". people don't mind bare bones to get cheap tickets, but the appearance of dishonesty in a supplier is another thing altogether.

[@martyndawson7484]

I think the comparison sites pricing is the true reason behind these false prices.

[@navajojohn9448]

The US makes airlines itemize and explain all of their fees plus all of the govt taxes and fees prior to checkout. It helps a lot.

[@fredbloggs5902]

All airlines do that before the moment of payment.

[@James-co3os]

These are Illegal in Hong Kong. They were prevalent a few years ago because main airlines would make you still pay them when booking with points.

[@Trevor_Austin]

I do hope nobody ever takes the ashtrays from the toilets and the toilet doors. If sufficient of these things are removed the aircraft cannot fly passengers. Even more painful is if someone witnesses the missing ashtrays and reports it this to the authorities. Not for one minute am I suggesting that you should ever take these vital pieces of equipment. Possibly there is a case for rewarding passengers with a “leaving things alone” credit, equivalent to the fees and add-ons they chisel out of you when you book your flight.

[@ricstanden]

I recently travelled to Spain with my 5 yr old son on his first flight on Ryanair. I am disabled so I get my seat free (but only in a certain area which is the last few rows at the back) Now the advert Ryanair have in their website says (children get a free seat) So on our outbound journey we were in seats 30a (window) and 30b (middle) as it said that the child HAD to sit next to the adult. Both seats were free. On our return we said in seats 33a and 33b. My seat was free but I was charged £12 for my son. So I went back and tried again but this time I opted to have a normal free seat. Again it offered 30a and 30b on the outbound trip and both our seats were free and once again the return trip my seat was free and his was £12. Yet at the top of the page the advert banner said ‘children’s seats are free! *under 10) When I complained to Ryanair I was told just pay it!

[@longrolstral]

Why would there be ads in a booking form? More digital stalkers?

[@navajojohn9448]

By now most people know the game when dealing with budget carriers. Nickeled and dimed to death, no leg room and everything is extra. And I am glad they are competing with the full fare carriers.

[@alexyantonievich8719]

I liked when I could fly for 2p to Norway or £5 return to Portugal. People being stupid spoiled it for me by complaining that the price advertised is not the price you pay. It actually was if you played the game.

[@PeteTwistedTrees]

As they can't sell seats they do not have, if you turn up as a solo passenger and don't care where you sit, there really should not be any charge. Like wise as there are a reducing pool of seats to choose from booking a seat should be no more expensive the day before the flight than it is a year in advance. You just have less available options the closer you leave it... UNLESS of course the airline is over-selling the plane capacity hoping that some will not turn up for the flight they paid for.

[@Grumszy]

If you believe they are unfair... do not fly with them again... hit them in the profit pocket.

[@insightphoto]

but they won't do that because they're still a lot cheaper than most mainstream airlines!

[@MinkieWinkle]

Personally I find them equally priced, since airline like ba as an example include everything in the price. Bags, seat selection etc included. You can fly cheaper on main stream Airlines if you shop for deals

[@WhiteDieselShed]

@@insightphoto You maybe surprised. They were cheap to get the headlines and people did get real bargains but once the customer base is large enough the prices start increasing. Then the sneak rubbish starts with surcharges etc.. It's not a price increase it's a surcharge... Starts with surcharges for obvious things like heavy bags and then most bags and then .... everything is extra...

[@MrSmalley300]

I booked with Singapore Airline and it gave the flight cost, upon going through with the booking it came to selecting seats which was free until I came to the final flight and that had an enforced cost to select a seat. I find the seat selection to be a poor reflection to the airline and the flight may have many passengers walking about on a flight to be with their family or friends., or the usual can I just sit there in your seat you paid for.

[@monicaxirireland9996]

Well researched as usual and very relevant to anyone flying but I would love to hear his thoughts next on A coroner blasting the “inhumane and indefensible” treatment of a UK prisoner who took his own life after serving 17 years for a 23-month jail term with UK's indeterminate sentencing. A big question is why is it so hard for to resentence people who are literally now rotting in jail with no release date after relatively short sentences? (Scott Rider case, 45,) honestly this has flown under the radar but treating injustice with another injustice serves no one.

[@LossyLossnitzer]

You watch, a system charge will be added to Parking fines for the use of DVLA connected systems.

[@Myoshin.]

If you bought a tin of beans at Tesco and the checkout price was more than the shelf price then this would be illegal.

[@augnkn93043]

I think not. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invitation_to_treat

[@Innesb]

@@augnkn93043If the advertised price (e.g. shelf label) *always* had a fee added at the checkout, then it would be in breach of consumer laws. Invitation to treat allows for mistakes, not consistently misleading prices.

[@Myoshin.]

@@augnkn93043 I didn't know that, interesting

[@MrApolloTom]

It would be legal at common law but illegal under consumer statutes.

[@augnkn93043]

@@MrApolloTom It’s been a long time since I studied law.

[@borassictime918]

Surely any fee/charge that cannot be avoided must be unfair if not included in the advertised headline price - making it impossible to purchase at the advertised price.

[@DOCWHOK9]

Regarding seat choice - I recently booked my seat with such a system then paged backwards & forwards trying to avoid some Fee I spotted,and WoW, my seat choice is now Denied. These systems ARE RIGGED. My example was wanting a window seat and their system deliberately locks out choices, and ups fees seemingly at random.

[@concernedcitizen12577]

I have used booking sites before. I prefer to book online as the price is normally cheaper than going through travel agents. The admin fee is normally to be the middleman (travel agent) liasing between you and the airline and transferring or facilitating the payment with the airline. Now when it comes to choosing seats i dont tend to book through the booking site as they are sometimes higher than theseats through the airline so normally I book them through manage booking on the airline websites or if I am not bothered about the seat then I do at check in with no extra charge. As for the automated fee I treat that as a fixed service charge you might see at a restaurant somewhere So its the norm for me and I could be saving £300-£400 in some cases but sometimes the airline is cheaper its worth checking out airlines first.

[@1davidsmall]

If an ad blocker is removing code from a website, how can the website owner be held responsible?

[@johncc16]

Since the Pandemic,I have found that Wizzair have increased their seat reservation fees by about 400% of what they were before,even in the Winter. The only way to avoid them is to wait until 24 hours before to reserve a seat(then it is still not clear that they will not charge), randomly, or get the package including check in luggage. This has increased my regular fare with Wizzair by around 200% ,so £200 return, instead of £100 for two cabin bags. Ryanair is still still £100 for the same including standard seat reservations( with two cabin bags) for a return fare. Wizzair have lost my custom for future bookings as a result. If you are flying on a budget, like me, you have to change airlines to the best fare deal available. Now, with Wizzair fare increases, it is sometimes cheaper for me to book Lufthansa return flights,which are often cheaper, with check in luggage and no seat reservation fee.

[@lightwoven5326]

I went with Sl easy jet last year and it is possible to fly cheaply, just a lot of hard graft and very early booking. 58 pounds to Faro for 2 adults and 2 children can't be sneezed at. Thats the cost of fuel of a car for a few days.

[@Murph9000]

I could see the airlines potentially getting into trouble with misleading advertising. E.g. if they advertise flights to Tipperary from £50, but the mandatory fees added before checkout mean that it's impossible to fly there for just £50, that would seem to be misleading advertising unless the advert makes it reasonably clear that there are mandatory fees.

[@ChrisComley]

"Reasonable" as a legal term, maybe. As a everyday consumer, I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to sell anything as "cheap" by reducing the headline price then adding back in all sorts of random fees later. I heard last week that apparently some london restaurants are considering charging fees, one example, "branding", i.e. it's a franchise, the operators have to pay a fee to the owners, they want to add a charge to your bill towards that... if I go to a resturant I expect the price on the menu to cover the price of sitting at the table, the price of having the lights on, the price of having cutlery... else where does it end? Also in your specific example, I refer you to "Fascinating Aida" "Cheap Flights".

[@MinkieWinkle]

Look at british airways as an alternative. Baggage is included in the price, free seat selection etc. You will fund that on lots of routes, BA is the same or even cheaper than Ryan or easy once you have selected all the add ons I one got a flight on BA for less than 40 pound to Spain, including bags. Gotta keep an eye open for the deals

[@egpx]

Surely the lowest offered fare should be available to buy at that price? It’s the fact that a surcharge appears before you pay means that there is some deception involved. I booked a Ryanair flight the other day, it was on offer for €19.99 and that is precisely what I paid. Is there any way of getting a Wizz Air flight at the base price without a surcharge? Over the phone perhaps, or in person at a ticket desk in an airport? I imagine the surcharge for those methods is greater than a web/app purchase. I know you can still get some dirt cheap seats on Wizzair even with the surcharge but it is still being less than honest by highlighting a fare that is never available.

[@Inkling777]

Those who note that with all the added fees budget airlines often end up only a little cheaper than full-fare ones might want to watch this video by a commercial pilot in Europe. In the U.S. before deregulation air travel tended to be expensive. Airlines only needed to justify their charges with regulators. After deregulation in the late 1970s, competition set the prices. That lowered prices and created budget airlines, but there was a floor to those prices. An airline that priced below costs would go out of business. There were only a few ways an airline could reduce costs to be more competitive. They couldn't reduce employee pay (including that of pilots) much, because employees would move to the company that paid better. Fuel costs were the same. The planes came from only two companies, so there was little money to be saved there. The fact that a budget airline has almost the same operating costs as a full-fare one means that these budget airlines are driven to advertise one price but add on fees and charge another. They have to look cheaper than they are. Here's a video that explains how deregulation changed commercial aviation, making operating costs more important and customer comfort and safety less important. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5Ddn5KuZ69-a7M

[@chrisengland5523]

These fees, when shown before purchase may be legally fair but they are not morally fair. The reason I claim this is that had the full price been shown at the outset, then many people might have gone elsewhere, but having spent ages entering their details and navigating through several pages, many people will simply give in and accept the increased price because they don't want to spend another hour going through the same process with a rival. The airlines know this and that's why they structure things this way. Having said that, the main culprit is the comparison websites. In order to get anywhere near the top of the list, suppliers (not just airlines) have to strip out everything except the basics and then put such items back in later as options. All airlines do it now; they've little choice, but personally I much prefer the way it was. You used to be able to book with British Airways and not have to worry about paying for choosing a seat or hold baggage etc. It was far simpler and quicker.

[@TechToWatch]

A price quoted for a flight should be for the necessary cost of the flight and the airline can then try to bump the optional extra services it sells. 1) I can't fly without a seat, it would be illegal. Airlines know which are the most popular seats and can charge an extra fee if a pax prefers them over less popular seats, so the airline defaults to an unpopular seat that's included in the quoted price, which the pax can change for an extra fee. That's what I've seen with budget airlines and it makes sense. It doesn't make sense to quote a price for the flight that does not include a seat. 2) Extra charge for service of running website? Well, without the website I wouldn't be able to transact with the airline and buy a ticket. Running the website is the cost of doing biz. So, if I'm quoted a price but need to buy a seat and pay for the ability to pay, what is the initial quote for? It seems it's really just a marketing ploy to offer a tempting price, get the user to navigate thru the website, which can be very time consuming and peppered with annoying adverts and then the extra prices are added at the end where the user has the option of abandoning the purchase and going to another option than the flight chosen....but that would mean starting again and the psychology is to just accept fate and buy, the sums aren't huge just annoying. Multiply by the millions of flights sold.

[@PeterWildman-gm2gq]

should airport pickup and dropoff fees be included in ticket price.

[@Drenwickification]

4:35 I wonder how much it costs to install a machine and then pay someone to empty it vs an app, because I always found it odd how you sometimes get additional fees for paying for parking on an app

[@philjtephenson41]

Paying to book on an automated app/service is unfair and unreasonable, if im doing the work to make the booking then I should get a discount, this is the huge problem right now, everyones trying to make more money and if they can do it by being sneaky they will, trust nothing, shopping is combat!

[@bobikdylan]

I've flown with RyanAir lots of times. Everyone knows by now that there are add-ons, and that the first advertised price is unlikely to be the one you ultimately pay. I've never had a problem with booking, and almost every plane I've been on has arrived early. The planes are sometimes a bit grubby due to the fast turnarounds, but I can live with that for a couple of hours. I also don't need to eat, drink, shop or gamble for a couple of hours. I think of budget airlines as buses. The only time I had a real problem was with Whizzair, when the flight was delayed several hours and they put on a non-liveried plane they'd obviously hired. The flight attendant offered booze. I asked for water. No water. I said you wouldn't be able to transport pigs without giving them water.

[@jabirucru6970]

Bunch of shyster’s. if I book a ticket I want to know how much. Administration etc is in the background and should be rounded into the cost of the ticket and it is the cost of doing their business and should be in the cost.

[@tricky1992000]

when buying such tickets, often the surcharge is unavoidable, such as being forced to select seats. There is also the case if you add bags, then bags get added to all tickets.

[@simonfindlow7478]

Not sure what the confusion is with these fares, but Ryanair and easy is quite straightforward, basic flight ticket, then add a bag ( cabin or hold) , add seating option, brings a total price, not sure about the other budget airlines such as Wizz, I’ve not seen the hidden charges to be honest.

[@jamesgraham7297]

If the airline allocates a seat randomly, there will be no charge to the passenger. If the passenger chooses to buy a seat later, they will pay the price available on the day. Nothing unfair, here.

[@Inkling777]

The assignment isn't really random. It's simply the left-over seats after other passengers have paid for what they consider the better seats. That's not the issue here. The issue is all the fees that passengers cannot avoid but aren't included in the listed price.

[@jamesgraham7297]

@@Inkling777 I don't disagree about the bigger picture, but was commenting only on the seat allocation. The 'random' nature of the seat assignment is usually claimed because an algorithm is used at -x hours to allocate the unsold/unblocked seats to the pax who have not purchased one.

[@mikebashford8198]

Air fares are ridiculous. Last year I flew from BHX to EDI with EasyJet. I didn't take the cheaper (by 5 quid) option which was to go via AGP.

[@jonnchapman]

May be mentioned elsewhere, but are they saying that you HAVE to buy a seat (pay) in addition to the flight cost? I understand as mentioned the surcharge and admin fee (although as mentioned if unavoidable then should be in the base cost). This seems very strange. The benefit of buying seats is a) you determine where you sit and b) sitting together if part of a group. Random seat allocation should be free. Or have I missed something.

[@marcus.H]

A change of seating is an optional luxury. Why cant they just charge any price they deem to be appropriate? You said it would be an invalid contract term, but wouldn't that just mean you cant buy the seat? Are you suggesting they should be forced to charge only a reasonable price for this optional extra?

[@BrazzaB1]

If all the passengers had to pay either / or admin or system surcharge, should this be included in the ticket price with a note to say it has been added? Also, the seats are priced according to location, so I assume if you did not choose a seat and all the cheaper seats have been taken, you will have to pay for seat in a more expensive location

[@nonamninom9344]

Administration fee is not for printing tickets. If they print you tickets is very very expensive, it's separate another fee. They sell more tickets than places in the plane and I knew people were left because they didn't pay the fee for place.

[@ellenclarkratliff6872]

When you fly Frontier or Spirit in the USA, they advertise cheap fairs...that's before they charge you for your bag, regardless if you carry on or check it (another $40 each way), then if you want a seat...that's another $15 to $25 each way. That cheap ticket on a cheap airline turns out to be just as expensive as if you fly on Delta, United or American. Thank you very much, I will go for class over crass any day. I will not fly the "Greyhound Bus" of the sky. Next thing you know, these airlines will charge you to use the restroom on the flight.

[@grahammerry7031]

They also advertise a flight which you agree to and pay for then move you to a flight time you dont want.

[@russellwild8329]

Any mandatory fees should be in the inital price, I've rejected flights in the past because of this, in fact this year budget prices are so high that I've decided not to fly to europe this year

[@apjluker]

Do you pay for the seat booking if you have it randomly allocated or is the cost may increase warning if you change your mind & decide to book a specific seat

[@alantheinquirer7658]

"Give us money to have a seat on our airplane." Gives money. Turn up. "Sorry - you paid for a seat but we double-booked. You'll have to wait." Thing is, this is why they're cheap flights. They have an initial fee (sounds cheap) then add on other 'optional' extras.

[@sipos0]

You are being very credulous saying they are transparent to the booker when they have removed these fees from the price they initially quoted, knowing that they had to be paid and what they were. They have said what they are before the contract is entered into, but they have, for no reason other than than to waste your time thinking their fares are lower than they actually are, and thus leave you either without the time or not wanting to bother to go to a competitor, and therefore to decide you into buying their ticket. The idea that you should have to pay for a seat, given you have paid for a ticket, with no seat being free, is also ridiculous. What happens if you decline to choose any seat? They have agreed to take you to your destination, and are not allowed to do so without giving you a seat, so the only options are either they give you a seat included in your ticket, as everyone but then understands the way airline tickets work, or they have to force you to pay for a seat, having knowingly sold you a ticket that couldn't be used. If it isn't possible to avoid a fee, through the method they are advertising it, they should not be allowed to advertise a price not including it. For example, if they advertise a ticket price with a link to their website to book it, it should include the fee to use the website to book it. If they advertise a ticket price, it should include the cheapest seat so that you can use it. If they only accept cards for payment, it should include the card payment fee. If they want to charge a few for using the website, or for paying by card, then they need to include instructions on how to book in such a way as to avoid that fee, at the price they are advertising, otherwise there is no meaning in the price they are advertising except as a means to decieve people into sinking enough time into the process of booking with them as to no longer wants to start again with their competitors. If this isn't how the law works, then the law is defective and needs to be changed.

[@navajojohn9448]

That plane ticket about the same price as a train ticket from London to Manchester. Such a bargain.

[@steveminchin1182]

That is not a valid argument. The train fare might be very high (and it probably is). and ,therefore, makes the air fare look attractive.

[@kbbg00141]

Would it not be reasonable that if I am booking a flight that I would need a seat. No flight has standing room. If I booked a hotel room with a double bed it would be reasonable to expect pillows and linen. By all means charge me if I want a specific seat on the plane but not to be able to seated on the plane.

[@fredbloggs5902]

Seats have varying value, some are free. If all the free ones have gone then you should have booked earlier.

[@johng.1703]

the could even have a walking on the plane fee, carpets and cleaners are not free, an air fee, breathing that seems pretty important, and well without them compressing air a recycling it, you would pretty much die, a toilet fee, just in case you need to go. and they all tell you way more about what you are actually paying for. then you can have a "buying a ticket surcharge" "bumping the price up surcharge" and even a "we need to make some more profit surcharge" all perfectly reasonable. but to me, the advertised price should be the minimum you actually pay, be that including VAT etc or excluding VAT etc. but when you can't buy the thing they are advertising for the price they are advertising, to me that goes against the various consumer protections, no matter how open they are about all the extra charges they are sticking on top of the advertised price for the thing being advertised. given the "seat" charges, you should be able to buy more than one seat, and just pay one flight fee, because these are sold independently of each other.

[@davidwebb4904]

£4.99 London-Montenegro

[@robertarmstrong3478]

It does seem unreasonable (not legally unfair) to me to charge extra to use a parking payment app since this means the parking company don't have to service the cash taking machine both mechanically and to collect, count and deposit the cash. Notoriously labour intensive and hence costly actions. I would ask what the admin fee covers if you are being charged an additional automated system fee because you booked 'automatically'. If in your on screen example you don't choose a seat and get a randomly allocated one, are you charged extra at that point? I would have read that screen as ' 1) choose a seat now at a cost, 2) choose one later (might cost more, guess whether!) or 3) accept the random seat allocation at check in at no additional cost;. I would consider it unfair if there is always a seat charge, but not if the optional seat cost had gone up, since you elected not to take the advertised 'lowest' cost option. The itemised bill did seem to show 'seats' as included with no extra cost. There was also the reference to a 40Euro airport check in fee on the first screen, never to be referenced again.

[@testpilotian3188]

This reminds me of the old credit card surcharge, so what they’re saying is it’ll cost more if you book through the app. We found this with the French railway system, if you booked online you paid anything up to 25% more on tickets versus walking up to the ticket machine in the station and buying the ticket 2 minutes before the train comes in - absolute madness. At least with the trainline, even after the booking fee the tickets are still cheaper online vs in the station.

[@edwardsierpowski3839]

The price shown just isn’t the price because you have an additional charge forced on you. As mentioned it should be stated up front or just included in the original as part of your breakdown section showed, so the £9 should already have been there. Surely that’s FALSE ADVERTISING. Otherwise you can pull this stunt anywhere saying - buy your XXX here for the low price of only AA (but I’ll still get AA+B from you at the checkout). Relying on you to not want to go through the hassle all over again elsewhere. It’s lies; deceit pure and simple.

[@GenialHarryGrout]

So you book a flight with Wizz Air and they charge extra to have a seat? IMO the cost of a flight should include a seat and one chosen by Wizz Air should be zero cost since it is the basic requirement of flying.

[@simonneep8413]

No, they charge the for the option to choose a particular seat. Most airlines do this, not just low cost.

[@GenialHarryGrout]

@@simonneep8413 But he chose to select a seat late, which he didn't as far as I could see, and he was still charged extra. To me, unless I missed something, letting Wizz randomly select a seat for you still incurs an additional charge.

[@simonneep8413]

@@GenialHarryGrout You missed something. He did point out the ambiguity in "the price may go up" if you don't choose a seat at that point, but that variablr price is if you opt to choose a seat later. It's always free if you let them assign you a random seat.

[@fionagregory9147]

I never use planes.

[@fredbloggs5902]

And we should care because…?

[@fionagregory9147]

@@fredbloggs5902 do one.

[@fionagregory9147]

@@fredbloggs5902 go away if you can

[@laceandwhisky]

Your arms must get tired then when you fly without a plane 😂

[@hecticstairs]

well i haven't look into it and didn't do any research but...probably!

[@barracuda008l4]

Idiotic.... same flight same day same airport same time... easyjet 180 British Airways 600

[@mabisfab77paintball]

BlackbeltBarrister how can we get help with credit score lies false debt on my credit file by three by vodafone by virgin media

[@michaelwharton1561]

I haven’t had problems with Ryanair or Wizz hidden payment or over charging the many time I have travelled to and from Kyiv when I could and to and from Krakow when I can’t fly to Kyiv. Just to understand you though you say it’s ok for companies to charge Admin or automated fees for a website Why? Companies have a one of cost to set up the Website fair enough but once set up it only take one person to update and now its AI totally automated so no wages to pay just the cost of a few severs, so a massive cost saving to the company in stead of shop fronts in many towns and cities with at least two to three staff in each one throughout the UK Irland and Europe or a call centre with 50 plus staff office space electricity and phone line rental along with much more. So how can they justify the extra cost, it’s like say you as a customer have to pay for the advertising, we do so you can find our company and buy are product. It’s not acceptable and we as customers shouldn’t have to pay extra cost when there is only savings for the company. Great videos. Always very interesting and informative

[@SillySausage-mq3so]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO As long as the wings don't fall off, don't fly BOEING.

[@SuperAd1980]

I'm going to start charging them a customer payment fee, and a customer payment service surcharge, and a use of customer card/ cash fee... I think £5 each is reasonable, so that's £15 for me every time i pay for something, anywhere at any time... Who's with me?

[@cmartin_ok]

The "system surcharge" is a rip-off. It may be legal but without the "system" (a website etc) the company does not have a business as (potential) customers cannot buy anything. Running the website is a business expense and the costs should be incorporated into the sales price (IMHO, of course)

[@JesterJ920]

Exactly

[@MikeKey-y7l]

Surely if you can only book using the automated system because the airline has no other way for you to book, then these charges should be part of the advertised fare as it is impossible to avoid.

[@SyncViews]

Probably you can book over the phone, for probably an even larger fee... They should be required to advertise the lowest possible and state what that is (e.g. website: £0, phone: £5 surcharge)

[@alanfairbrother890]

Budget airlines promote prices as if you’re getting on a bus, . But if you want to bring a bag well you need pay, if you want a particular seat well you have to pay for it. If you want to board first (along with everyone else) you need to pay. Etc

[@BrightonandHoveActually]

WizzAir get you to check in online beforehand. You then use an app or print your own hardcopy boarding pass. We printed hardcopies at home for an outward flight but coming home we couldn't as we could only check in within 24 hours of the flight. We found a print shop which printed them for about 20p each! However . it does seem to me that Rule 3.18 of the CAP code is breached if a retailer advertises a price but does not include non-optional taxes, duties, fees or charges. Of course the airline could argue that the online fee is necessary to secure the lower fee but that, seems to be outlawed by rule 3.21. So I think that if a price is quoted but there is no way of actually paying that price it may be a breach of the CAP code.

[@Inkling777]

When I shop at a supermarket the price of the item is what I pay. I'm not charged a "use of a cart fee" or "cashier processing fee." I don't see why airlines should be able to get away with tacking on these every passenger and every flight fees.

[@Lord_Hands]

The system surcharge seems to be a compulsory charge for booking online. These sort of charges SHOULD be included in the ticket price, similar to the administration fee. It seems you cannot purchase a ticket for the "original" stated price. If there is to be a compulsory surcharge for booking online, it should be included in the ticket price from the moment you land on their website.

[@machintrucGaming]

How do you book wizzair without booking online ?

[@Lord_Hands]

@@machintrucGaming unsure. All the more reason for them to include that surcharge in the price of the ticket.

[@robd9863]

​@@machintrucGamingBook using their app.

[@robd9863]

You can get the price advertised by using their app.

[@1davidsmall]

Or be displayed as £wx.yz + fees as not all fees are fixed and will have to be calculated at the end.

[@EHOinExile]

I think it would be unfair if they advertise along the lines of "fly to Vienna from 58.99" if it is impossible to avoid the additional charges

[@WhiteDieselShed]

Exactly that, even if the flight is at 3am and you get the broken seat. Advertising a price with no possible way to purchase at that price. They need to be pulled up on this. Because all the airlines will have to do the same then they are not losing, just an honest price rather than surcharge on top of surcharge. I have cancelled purchases many times because the final price in no way reflected the original advertised price. I would rather pay more from a company that publish the true price that you can actually purchase.

[@lightwoven5326]

Wing seats are available, oxygen and straps optional extras.

[@EHOinExile]

@@lightwoven5326 don't give them ideas 😅😅😅

[@Inkling777]

@@EHOinExile Some years back didn't the head of Ryan air suggest they might charge for using the rest room on their planes?

[@EHOinExile]

@@WhiteDieselShed I think I remember something like that, and developing a 'standing' seat to increase capacity but, if I recall correctly, the Civil Aviation Authority stopped that.

[@ianworthington2324]

I was under the impression that it was now required that ALL non-optional fees had to be included in the headline rate, not hidden away until late in the booking process, no?

[@javiTests]

I think everything that is mandatory in the price, it should be included in the ticket. If they are going to charge those £9 no matter what, it should be included. If you could avoid them somehow, then it make sense it's a separate charge. I think they do these things so in the webpages that compare the prices with different airlines, they appear cheaper at the beginning. So I think they are unfair. Maybe they are not illegal, but we should push back against these shady practices.

[@davidioanhedges]

If I cannot avoid the fee by doing something else, then the fee is not fair, it is 100% unavoidable and so should be part of the original price and not added on later It's not an additional fee, it part of the original price, since you cannot avoid paying it

[@maverick627uk]

The airline company I like is Yorkshire Airways. Run by Hale and Pace 😅 It is a class sketch though.

[@googlecontrolled]

Ey up! Fish and chips for inflight meal and land back at Leeds 😊

[@johncc16]

Jet2 are are a bit like a Yorkshire Airways, as they sell Yorkshire Tea and bacon butties on board! They are based in Leeds. Very good service.

[@WhiteDieselShed]

They 'MANAGE FINGS'.

[@laceandwhisky]

So glad this has come up. Here is another i am six eleven tall. Seat space has got smaller ie: knee leg space. I don't fit in 90% of airline seats so have to ask for the door seats which they charge more for UK to USA will cost me extra £400 return. I understand if obese person needs one should pay but i naturally of no fault of my own gets charged.😢 They should be obligated to provide a seat that fits 😊

[@b.nichols3255]

The increase may not have been a lot, but it came to almost 20% of the original ticket price.

[@mihumono]

WTF, they already include admin fee. This seems like a trick to make flights seem cheaper in flight price comparison services. Another option would be some kind of tax avoidance, as probably different tax for calling things something else. Absolutely dirty tricks. Surprised they didn't reduce cabin bag size again...

[@WhiteDieselShed]

I do wonder how many tax loopholes there are.. I worked for a company that created another company to buy in the stationery. So we purchased the copy paper and pens and other desk items and sold them to the main company and I was doing both jobs but paid from the main company??? Made no sense to me.

[@rchas1023]

Last year, I flew to Thailand and back. Because of my legs, I asked for aisle seats, and was charged for them. On the first leg, I was moved to a window seat, outboard of two gents with bad coughs and no masks. On the return, last leg, I was again removed, this time to another aisle seat, but without the usual seat facilities (things were broken). I subsequently asked for refund of the relevant seat reservation fees, and, after considerable hassle, was offered half those fees. This seems a distinct rip-off.

[@eddier9455]

@rchas1023 There is a certain Asian airline I used for flying to and from the Philippines (one of the cheaper airlines I might add). I have an account with the airline that I can log into to. Even though I was booking through an agency I am able to phone up the airline and add that booking added to my account, log in and select which seats I want at no extra charge. I always choose window as it gives me something I can put my cushion up against and get some shut eye.

[@15bit62]

I struggle to see how an app can cost more per payment than a physical machine in a car park.

[@63sgjunior]

Banks charge per transaction. The parking people are just covering costs.

[@chappelstation]

As others have stated if there is no way of avoiding these additional charges when a ticket is purchased then surely it must be false advertising to promote a ticket at an initial cheaper price when it can never be bought at that price. They are just hoping that by the time you arrive at the payment page and the price has increased you can’t be bothered to cancel the booking and shop around for a cheaper price. In my view all these hidden charges by the budget airlines are designed to make it impossible to do a fair price comparison 😡

[@MinkieWinkle]

Bank charges are fractions of a penny on the grand scheme of things, don't be swindled into paying ore due to "Bank charges"

[@15bit62]

@@63sgjunior Many car parks have machines where you can pay by card now, not only cash. I haven't seen a 20p surcharge on any of those....

[@WhiteDieselShed]

@@63sgjunior Banks do not charge £9 for a sub £60 transaction. Yes there is a fee which is likely to vary depending on payment method but they know the ticket price so add it onto that. Where do you draw the line on surcharges?? Checkout assistant smiled at you +£5 Your bags were not thrown 30ft to the ground +£20 Your bags were not ransacked and anything valuable stolen +£50???

[@neuralwarp]

It's false advertising, is what it is. The bottom line for a product should be the price first shown on the website. No, I don't want chips, bags, courier tips, or admin with that.

[@tonyphotiou1742]

They should be forced to include mandatory fees in the initial price. In Australia if you don't pay to choose your seat, the is no increased charge later. You get allocated a random seat

[@Farming-Technology]

I absolutely agree that the company should be free to itemise their bill with as many arbatery charges as they wish and costs must be covered. But shorley if a product or service is offered at a price, it must be physicaly possible for a person to attain the product/ service at that price. The advent isn't advertising to sell you the thing for the price its advertising for you to get the thing for the price. And if it isn't, the devs need to patch the law.

[@lal2300]

Crooks come in all guises 🤔 the whole process is designed to scam you. All I want is the price to fly to ‘X’; not give me a price then keep adding unavoidable costs to triple my bill 😡!

[@kai7692]

I thought it was pay extra for the seat of your choice or no charge for a random seat, them charging for the random seat is pretty crazy

[@salus.populi6323]

Ambiguous. I would assume that when you came to the point of being allocated a random seat, if you didn’t like it and wished to choose a seat, your choice would be then - maybe - be more expensive.

[@Daniel-OConnell]

Unfortunately your own profession (legal) was one of the early pioneers of this kind of rip-off charge. I had reason to consult a UK firm of solicitors on a very minor matter over 40 years ago. Apart from the fact they didn't act on time, to allow the matter to proceed, they held my upfront payment and charged an "accounting fee" with VAT on top before they would issue an invoice. Such greedy practices are nothing new and have been around for a long time.

[@alexandersimpson3638]

They should in my opinion only be allowed to advertise the actual minimum onboard price. Making it clear, that any additional services such as seat options and extra baggage comes with additional charges. The main point being the cost of a basic seat, random allocation of comes at an achievable fixed cost that is advertised.