WHAT KILLED CHRISTIAN-CORE?? Tooth & Nail, Underoath, Sleeping Giant

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Follow me on Instagram if you enjoy my dumb videos: instagram.com/finnmckenty

[@macjbd1149]

I wonder when you will get a show on Vice. That would be sick

[@daltonbedore8396]

dang man you work really hard on these. respect

[@Ben-qb4lj]

Or, interestingly, you could get to know actual Christians that like music. Some of us are intelligent.

[@ellisdtrails420]

What happened to Nardcore?!

[@ACloudWithoutAir]

thanks to your list of retro christian metalcore, I got like, 5 new albums to junk on. thanks

[@alypiusloft]

Gotta say, as a Christian, I deeply appreciate the approach you took in this video. You were very respectful toward all these bands that I have loved, and you were also fair in your judgment of the preachy arrogance some of the bands adopted toward the end of that era. It’s good to hear see that movement acknowledged in this way, and calling attention to the unhealthy idea of “Christian music” versus “secular music.” Music doesn’t belong to anyone-we’re all sharing in something that is human, regardless of our beliefs.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Well said- thanks for watching!

[@EsharpGflat]

I think you are so right when you mentioned that a label as a “Christian band” is so hard to be sustainable. Even if you’re a Christian we all mess up, and when all that scrutiny is put on you because it’s part of your brand, it’s so unhealthy. I grew up in the church, and I thought this was a cool video. Probably some things I’d say differently, but most of it is very well said. It’s such a touchy subject and really is just a label.

[@kristpuncher8511]

As someone with a brain. God is not real and if he is ill punch him right in the mouth for giving me cancer.

[@EsharpGflat]

Brent Jenner The debate isn’t about the reality of God, rather labels associated with Christianity in the music scene. I said I grew up in a church, aka as a kid, when you go where your parents take you. I’ve got a brain. One that can see that we are all entitled to our own opinions, and respects alternate views of the world. And one that can understand your anger since you’ve been dealt such a shitty situation. Cancer sucks, and I sincerely wish you the best with wherever you are in the process. I know I’m just a rando on the internet, but kick it’s ass if you haven’t already! Stay strong dude!

[@MrBogantilla540]

Well said. As an atheist, I back bands like The Chariot, Norma Jean, and Zao pretty hard. Just can’t deny a banger when it’s a banger.

[@brianmoritz2283]

I'm a Christian who loves heavy metal, and I gotta say I really appreciate your respectful and insightful take on this.

[@silentandcliche]

I just now saw this and was about to comment the same thing. Glad it's the favorited and top comment.

[@straightfire6390]

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

[@Cleman-02220]

As a Christian I approve

[@drugsmcsnortington]

@@straightfire6390 as it should be damn heathens...

[@straightfire6390]

​@@drugsmcsnortington mask off hood on-moment

[@TheHorrorExperiment]

The 2000's was a great decade for metal in general, there was something for everyone at that time.

[@RedPlaystationController]

2010s was way better for metal.

[@daytonasayswhat9333]

One of the top four decades of metal ever?

[@jimmybaratheon2350]

Fucking aye lml

[@boyman7823]

@@RedPlaystationController no

[@Wandering_Chemist]

This is a battleground!

[@gabym6441]

I grew up in the Christian hardcore/metalcore era, I can definitely say that it had a positive impact on my life. It provided me with a sense of community and stability. I made great friends and enjoyed my Friday and Saturday nights at shows, while others that I knew in different scenes were getting involved with drugs and negative things. It has had a lasting impact on me to this day; even though it wasn't perfect I look back fondly on those days.

[@iviaverick52]

One definite positive about the Christian metalcore craze, was the amount of positivity it injected into the scene. Even with many of the bands reconsidering their faith, their positive messages made everyone feel welcome and tried to put out a positive message, which I think was the major criticism most heavy music received for years.

[@mauricemotors8207]

August burns red does that a bit

[@millennial_falcon2240]

Cam I remember first getting into hardcore/metal music and having to ignore the negative lyrics and just focus on how the music sounded, which takes away from half the point of listening. When these bands came into the mix it was like a positive breath of fresh air

[@millennial_falcon2240]

Nissand21 guy Angry Music for Happy People!!

[@newthrash1221]

millennial_falcon You clearly know nothing about hardcore and what it represents and don’t belong in our scene. Ignoring hardcore lyrics is literally ignoring half of what hardcore is.

[@millennial_falcon2240]

newthrash1221 you clearly just wanted to make yourself feel better at the expense of someone who isn’t as well versed in the genre as you. I’d argue people like you don’t belong in any scene.

[@xnofriendsx]

That was possibly the best non biased video i have ever seen on KZbin. The world needs more people like you, great job.

[@edlingja1]

Yeah, unbelievable lol I really really appreciate you mr mckenty!

[@ItsAsparageese]

It's so rare to find another person who identifies as atheist, but has a fundamental appreciation for Christianity and explored it with an open mind! I really appreciate your sense of nuance.

[@blessedskateboarder]

So true.

[@nathansciarone5627]

Yes, there is a reason for that...

[@AlexJewellAlex]

It’s very interesting for me. I think a lot of atheists CAME from religion, and many of those from Christianity. To be entirely honest, as an atheist who grew up in the church, it’s hard for me to have much appreciation for Christianity at all. That isn’t to say there aren’t Christians I find to be wonderful people - my parents, for example, who are genuinely good people. However, overall, I’ve seen too much to have a lot of respect for it.

[@TIMRAT1]

Emerald Atheism maybe rare in your brainwashed Christian country mate. There is a whole world out there! Pretty stupid ignorant comment. 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[@AndrewChristian-bg6vr]

TIMRAT1 I think you misread the comment ya dummy.

[@samuelstephens9921]

As someone who is a Christian and was in a Christian band during this era, You really did nail this. I honestly remember quite vividly when faith came into style and when it came out of style. I do think in that there were some people that were sincere, but most changed with the seasons and just went on to something else. I learned firsthand that being in a "christian band" was very problematic. Nowadays, I'm definitely a Christian in a band, but I don't make the distinction with my music. I'll let my music and my messages speak for themselves. I personally get super grossed out by preaching bands from any perspective (stray from the path, for today being solid examples). I found that being what you are about in your personal life says a lot more than what you say on the stage in front of people.

[@joshkaseward]

what's your band name?

[@samuelstephens9921]

@@joshkaseward the band I'm referencing was A Body Divided. I'm in a black metal band now, but we are still in the writing phase and have yet to release material.

[@xxxxxxxxxxxx254]

If you're a "christian in a band" why *wouldn't* you evangelize? Other than not wanting to "gross out" non-believers? Jesus commanded us to evangelize.

[@samuelstephens9921]

@@xxxxxxxxxxxx254 That's a great question. It all comes down to how you define evangelize. I learned the quote "preach the gospel, and use words when necessary" when I was in Bible college, and it really stuck with me. The way that you interact with and ultimately treat the people around you says a lot more about your faith than quoting some Bible verses between songs on stage. The non-believer in the crowd doesn't care about your Bible verses and probably doesn't want to hear your testimony. They will however notice when you treat people with kindness. They'll notice when you offer to help other bands load and unload their stuff (which I was really bad at). They'll notice when you are respectful of the venue and promoter. they'll notice when you take time out of your night to hang out with the weird kid at the show that no one else wants to talk to. Anybody can tell anybody that they are a Christian. But ultimately walking the walk typically doesn't need a verbal explanation.

[@xxxxxxxxxxxx254]

@@samuelstephens9921 also, are you in a black metal band or an unblack metal band?

[@NicholasGreenwood]

I played in Overcome in 2010-2011, when it felt like metalcore (and particularly Christian metalcore) was at its height. [A lot of younger scene kids at that time hated us because we didn't play breakdowns, haha...] We played shows with secular bands, it wasn't a problem for us at all, and I'm grateful for that. We played shows with "Christian" bands, or at "Christian" venues with "Christian" audiences, and sometimes those interactions did get weird. Bands that are labeled "Christian" have to deal with a unique set of expectations from their fanbase, kids' parents and youth pastors, [potentially] their record label, other bands, media people, promoters, venue staff, etc., not to mention among their own bandmates. That kind of mix can cause any young person with ANY set of beliefs go through an identity crisis. Some bands can safely navigate that territory. Others want nothing to do with that kind of weird pressure and check out. And still others, well, we've seen where they take advantage of those expectations for their own gain. As for Overcome, we were all Christians, and one of my biggest takeaways from my time with them is the memory of us praying for about thirty seconds at the start of each practice, usually to the effect of, "Thank you, Lord, for giving us the opportunity to turn our amps up and be stupid loud. Help us get through these songs we're working on. We hope You find our noise pleasing." It was never about money, or trying to save people, or trying to change the world. Years later, I'm still praying that same thing.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Oh cool, small world! Thanks for watching- Overcome were/are sick!

[@bryanmartin8336]

Always got a kick out of Jason thanking us for liking Overcome even though there weren't any breakdowns. I think he mentioned it in the liner notes for Indwelling too.

[@kevinparsley6806]

my first comment for this video was a shout out to overcome. when beauty dies dope record.

[@kevinparsley6806]

when beuaty dies had break downs

[@ryanharvey1002]

I say them live in Iowa in 1999 or 2000

[@Aldairion]

Funny thing is that when I was getting into metalcore, I never realized just how many bands I enjoyed were indeed "Christian" - I liked the music, and the lyrics were all about confidence, empowerment, being your best self, overcoming obstacles and adversity, etc. It was easy to relate to in a general sense and it was accompanied by some badass riffs and vocals, and I was/am all here for it!

[@laurenricketts8820]

I'm late to this, but I agree. A lot of people didn't realize these bands were Christian bands. I would be listening to these bands with people, and I'd tell them "You know they're Christian right?" Then I'd get a "WHAT?!?!" or a "Are you serious?!?" Very well said comment.

[@bamafencer12]

Had no clue Underoath was Christian.

[@golfer435]

That is a lot of what Christianity teaches, just that it teaches mainly from a perspective of that being achieved through a relationship with a higher power.

[@bramblecino]

Nothing more bad asss than being badass for the lord!!!!

[@porkfriedrice1530]

I just learned so many bands I grew up with were Christian lmao. I have no idea why I didn’t know that.

[@Homeslice130]

The Christian bands were the real punks. The rock culture didn’t like them and the church condemned them, but the still did their thing.

[@TopsideCrisis346]

A true rebel is hated by all, and apologetic to none. 😎

[@parkergreen2510]

A true punk doesn’t follow the rules of any man but follows that of a higher power or their own accord 🙏🏻🤘🏻

[@makeupbakeuptheshowwherewe650]

AGREEEEEEED!!!!

[@cyclone927]

Homeslice130 I always saw them that way, the same thing with christian rap.

[@JohnVanus]

As a former Christian from a past Christian metal band (Seven System), I can say that I agree with you comments. If the music is solid it will hold up. If it is not, it will be forgotten. Dont use religion as the driving force behind the music, let the music stand on its own.

[@ninjaphobos]

As an Arkansan and Christian metal fan, I really appreciate that you gave a shout out to Living Sacrifice. I also really appreciate that you're open-minded and accepting of those Christian bands and bands with Christians who are authentic in their message, branding, and musicianship. I pretty well agree on all points with your video. It was obviously extremely well researched and informed. Thanks!

[@woodchuckknight7820]

Living Sacrifice is still one of my favorite bands. I remember seeing them play in a very small club in New Hampshire and they put on a hell of a show.

[@thethrashpanda]

I’m from Arkansas too! 🐗

[@DocCoyleOfficial]

Shout out to Demon Hunter

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Ex-Focal Point 😎

[@Brian-jb1db]

@@ThePunkRockMBA And Training for Utopia! The Clark brothers are Christian metal royalty

[@MottaBrothersGarage]

100%

[@flinchfu]

@IRONHILLdwarf * Right?

[@robertbrown368]

i think demon hunters new stuff has more depth. for sure it isnt fast and heavy like the first album, but still love it. i especially love how they and living sacrifice have stuck to their beliefs instead of giving in to societal pressure.

[@mnikss03]

I always chuckled whenever i saw the meme Before Christian-Core: *Listens/Moshes to Metalcore* “I wish I could do this for the Lord”

[@sav-]

Hahahaha I laughed really hard at this

[@Faded_Jester]

As a Christian myself, I love the open mindedness you showed in the video, and appreciate you not bashing religion. Also, Fit For a King is probably one of the best Christian Metalcore bands still around

[@goodsoupfreesoup]

Yesss also they're not too "preachy" they are open but not overwhelming

[@thisisfyne]

I've commented about them already, but to me Oh Sleeper is the epitome of Christian metalcore. Check em out!

[@Faded_Jester]

@@thisisfyne i have, hush yael is an amazing song from them, and i love them, i just resonate more with Fit For a King

[@robertoesquivel4447]

You don't like August Burns Red bro?

[@Faded_Jester]

@@robertoesquivel4447 i absolutely love them, i just resonate with Fit For a King more

[@teds54]

This was a fantastic video. I'm sorry that I am coming to it so late. As someone who was growing up as a Christian teenager in the 1990's, this was all right in my wheelhouse. The clips of Living Sacrifice, Zao, Embodyment, and Extol (all of which I saw in concert while I was in high school) was a nice trip down memory lane. I really appreciate your reflection that the lyrics of the Christian bands at that time offered you something that you didn't find elsewhere. The positivity was beneficial to you even though you didn't ascribe to the same belief system as a whole. As a young Christian, I appreciated the same thing from the opposite viewpoint. These bands were willing to deal with the difficult aspects of being a Christian. So many of the "popular" Christian artists avoided dealing with the fact that Christians get angry, Christians get sad, Christians struggle with doubt, Christians are humans. The hardcore scene dealt with these issues openly and - mostly - honestly. Probably the most interesting concert I ever attended had five bands, three were Christian and two were outwardly hostile or "satanic" in their lyrics. The order of the night was new local Christian band, then local "satanic" band, then Society's Finest (local Christian), then another local "satanic" band, then Embodyment (local Christian). The crowd was...diverse. Anyway, thank you for your balanced examination of this genre that I still enjoy today.

[@ericsiemens9891]

As a christian I'm glad impending doom was mentioned, they easily had one of the most balanced images that a "christian" band could have. They were boldly christian in their songwriting and lifestyle, but they also were talented, sincere, didn't spare the grit and even called out BS in the Christian community when they saw it, and it was done without being judgemental. The serpent servant, deceiver, baptized in filth, and hellhole were just a few that managed to catch the gritty, less-fun side of it all. I have massive respect for bands that are sincere in whatever it is they choose to do, even if I don't agree with them.

[@kylereichard1180]

Im mad I never got one of their "we'll scare the hell out of you" shirts

[@golfer435]

Yep, I would add Living Sacrifice and Demon Hunter to that list. Ryan Clarke does not hold back when he sees something that needs to be called out. Case in point "Cross to Bear".

[@takoshihitsamaru4675]

Demon Hunter is a very unapologetically Christian metal band. Yes, it's that "American Christian" flavour but their conviction is admirable, songs like Cross to Bear, Death and Undying are just brutal as hell with an aggressive delivery of a Christian message.

[@Kyrnyx]

"Nailed. Dead. Risen." is beyond underrated. Got me into grindcore which I originally thought sounded retarded.

[@ippo3963]

Learned about those bands in a videogame (impending doom, ffak, Demon hunter) and i gotta say as an ex atheist Impending doom drop the hardest stuff i ever heard and the lyrics make you rethink your belief without preaching

[@joshuadavid7522]

I'm a Christian, I loved this video. You are right on. Just remember that humans are the ones who make those mistakes, not the God they try to worship. Whether you believe in God or not, we should love everyone with nothing expected in return.

[@thorgefalk3575]

amen

[@ishoa5018]

tegu tantrums ZAO!!!

[@joshuadavid7522]

@@ishoa5018 point of recognition

[@DakotaWaddellMusic]

I have to constantly remind myself that sometimes you just have to separate Christ from Christians.

[@crooked-halo]

@Nick Trybull - I'm proudly and happily a sheep. Thanks for the compliment!

[@Coreykoon]

As a Christian, I appreciate how charitable you are to them so much. You acknowledge that there are distortions of the faith, and those do not embody true belief. That is huge man. It is so frustrating to feel misrepresented by televangelists and celebrities who care more about their reputations (or who try to have their wife killed).

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

There are good and bad people in any subculture and it would be dumb to assume everybody is like the bad ones, you know?

[@dylantodd9574]

Unfortunately, it comes with the territory. I can't count the times I had conversations about the guys from Tension carrying guns and pulling them on people, or even when certain straightedge bands talking about PMA start using violence against others who drink. But if only 1 out of every 10 people ask me a question with sincerity and introspection- then it's all worth it.

[@VCCassidy]

Distortions of Faith would be a SICK name for a christcore band!

[@mattkrammmusic1401]

I second the good feelings from the way you are charitable towards faith people. Interesting that Time doubting seemed to justify his probable affair which lead to (and/or came from) his full on denial of his faith and then to trying to kill his wife. Really seems like he wasn't trying to be a christian and a murderer at the same time his denial lead to him becoming a murderer. Not to say that people aren't out there trying to look like christian politicians while also being murderers but just pointing out that the two are not compatible. "Christians" who intentionally screw people over (or hire hitmen) are probably always not Christians at all. They are atheists (sorry) who are duping people.

[@geneticemo]

@@VCCassidy do you mind if I steal this or my shitty hs band?

[@Raptorking18]

Honestly I’m a Nu Metal kid, so bands like POD, 38th Parallel, Jonah33, Project 86, Justifide, Flyleaf, Skillet, Thousand Foot Krutch, Pivitplex, and Red also had their own mini scene going on for them.

[@Johnsrocknvinyl77]

You're Speaking my language Beauty of the Unknown by Justifide is amazing. I liked all the christian rock scenes.

[@mikeisaiah768]

P86 is one of the most underrated bands to never hit it big, Schwab is a lyrical genius - Drawing Black Lines is one of the best Christian metal albums of all time and I'd put it up against nearly any NuMetal album of the time.

[@kennykessler2827]

Literally have never met someone who’s heard of 38th Parallel😩

[@hqsports4793]

38th P and justifide 🤘🤘🤘

[@niicopanda]

@@mikeisaiah768 I'm digging this up 5 months later because... How is P86 not one of the most well remembered and referenced Christian bands from back in the day?! I remember them being an absolute force when I was a teen and now ... nothing. Boggles the mind.

[@kennyhutchison5013]

I enjoyed the video and as a Christian, I agreed with a lot of what you say and hate the hypocrisy of some Christians. I'm a 43 tear old Scottish guy who loves his Punk and I grew up with a lot of the punk being anti-christian but that was OK as I couldn't relate to the tele-evangelists and preachy people. In my faith in Jesus, I look at him as a great example of punk . He challenged authority when they were wrong, stood up for the poor and looked out for the weak in society. Keep the videos coming.

[@maxk.6230]

Kenny Hutchison well said!

[@awsmdrummer62]

Kenny Hutchison always loved the irony in Jesus basically being a leftist, while all his supporters are on the right. obviously this is where punk has a big issue with the idea of religion, despite the irony of who he was

[@aerialpunk]

Nice, I also was big into the punk scene for a while. I still think that punk and Christianity go together really well. Nice to see that others do too!

[@geneticemo]

@@awsmdrummer62 I'm a leftist Christian, we exist

[@jacobbaker141]

Haha, Kenny your so right! I never thought about Jesus like that, but he was a punk.

[@Leamon777]

For me, I was raised in the church and still have a strong foundation on Christianity and when I wanted to start listing to metal I looked at tooth and nail bands because my mom couldn't argue letting me listen to God based lyrics when I would show her them... Underoath absolutely changed my life! Thank you for making a great video... absolutely loved the video!

[@nathanbranson9149]

This guy has a balanced view of Christians even though he doesn't (or did not previously) consider himself a Christian (anymore). He says he is a Christian ally and is able to see all the positive things that it did for him. Great job with this video. It is common to see people who are no longer Christians who become bitter about Christianity to a fault. This guy is clearly not in that category.

[@woodchuckknight7820]

I grew up in the Christian metal scene and when I described the difference between a Christian hardcore pit and a regular hardcore pit I'd say they are just as brutal except in the Christian pit if you get knocked over someone always stops to pick you back up. Living Sacrifice, Zao, Project 86, Mercury Switch, As I lay Dying. So many good bands from that era.

[@joelrolph9229]

How dare you leave POD off that list

[@woodchuckknight7820]

@@joelrolph9229 POD is great also. Hung out with them at Inside Soul Fest here in NH years and years ago.

[@joelrolph9229]

@@woodchuckknight7820 jealous. Seen them live twice

[@WrathChild-NZ]

I'm still jamming August Burns Red, Norma Jean, Fit for a King

[@kfdjkdjjdjfjdjfjdjfj]

Silent planet , Wolves at the gates, Phinehas

[@iceize212]

@@kfdjkdjjdjfjdjfjdjfj For All Eternity

[@kfdjkdjjdjfjdjfjdjfj]

@@iceize212 Hallelujah You are my King, hallelujah to You I will sing.

[@sam4thewin]

You going to FF2020?

[@gisellerobles2779]

xIAMDAVEx hell yeah

[@jordanhartmann1745]

This is, like, the most reasonable thing I've ever heard in my life.

[@christopherbales1269]

Thanks for the tour of my gen 1 iPod nano.

[@fennellyj1]

haha late to the game but this comment couldnt be any more on point.

[@thespaniard47]

Haha my mom introduced me to Stryper because she saw me getting into heavier stuff, good mom trying to compromise and show interest

[@michaelblack9458]

Stryper is an underrated band and great musicians

[@blessedskateboarder]

@@michaelblack9458 So good!

[@misterknightowlandco]

Stryper is an awesome band musically whether you dig the lyrics or not.

[@MissLilTayy]

That’s so sweet of her, she’s a cutie lmao

[@hyphen1992]

Same here

[@CardiacCowboys]

Shout out to Disciple!! The band that got me into this genre as a young Christian Kid. Just recently my band opened up for them, they are still around and as relevant as ever. They’ve always been preachy but I think people have respected them for not changing their message literally since the 90s. And they’re just a killer band

[@joshlawrence8405]

I still listen to them a lot

[@theunpredictableroad3745]

Seriously can’t believe he mentioned disciple. Meaning the “real” hardcore disciple. Xdisciplex ad. They were fkn awesome

[@niicopanda]

I'm not the biggest fan of Disciple post "Scars Remain", but I still love that "This Might Sting a Little" was the first CD I ever bought!

[@AmericanWayne]

I was a Christian for 20 years, a youth pastor for 10 years, and a pastor for 4 years. I didn't even know what hardcore music was until I heard the aforementioned Tooth & Nail bands. It opened me up to a whole new world. Right before Underoath released The Changing of Times, right at the end of their black metal days, a buddy of mine and I paid them $400 to come play a show in Shreveport, Louisiana. There was no scene here so most of the kids who showed up were expecting a sound like Third Day or maybe a little harder sounding. We made it a free show so many youth group kids came and listened to some black metal and didn't know what to think. Looking back, I bet the experience was awkward for the guys in Underoath but my friends and I were glad to be able to see them live before they hit it big. I am no longer a Christian but still appreciate this music which is still a big part of my life. Thank you for posting this.

[@spiderb3367]

I grew up in this world. Whether you think it was awesome or cringey or both, it was real and authentic. A lot have left Christianity since this time. I left and came back and became Orthodox ☦️ but this was my life and a lot of other kids. Respectful presentation 🖤

[@bobbydwyer5293]

I as a metalhead myself, I am converting to orthodoxy as well. Great to hear.

[@alexnicastro9255]

If u never spinkicked a kid in the head at The Attic in Dayton, can u even say u MOSHED 4 CHRIST

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Lol!!! Saw winds of plague there

[@chosenxone7]

That venue lived and died by this genre lol.

[@alexnicastro9255]

@@chosenxone7 RIP to the Underground in Cincinnati too.

[@chosenxone7]

@@alexnicastro9255 Southwest Ohio was a breeding ground for metalcore in this era. Sucks that it's completely deteriorated now. It was truly up there with Socal and Florida with pumping out bands and dope shows.

[@TheCampbell254bme]

Alex Nicastro saw as i lay dying at the attic once. Went to see RED almost every time they played there too. The scream the prayer stuff was cool too with the two stage setups

[@gusradke]

Grew up in the Church, and going through High School and Youth Group with all these bands was awesome. Never understood the big negative push pack to Christianity in Metal in to 80s and 90s. But hearing about the televangelists makes total sense.

[@blessedskateboarder]

That sh$t in the 80s was crazy.

[@jonathancain7243]

Vengeance...thats all Im going to say.

[@DinsdalePiranha67]

I also grew up in the church, and in my HS youth group Stryper was far less popular than, say, Judas Priest, Dio, or Iron Maiden.

[@daytonasayswhat9333]

I do. Organized religion should always be pushed back on.

[@giselletorres4156]

It's just a reaction to the Satanic Panic and the messed up stuff evangelical christians did in the 80s.

[@mte06a1]

I grew up in the church scene and I think the main draw for us wasn't the lyrics or the message of the music. It was a way we could convince our parents to listen to rock music. "But mom, look it's a song about Jesus." It was a gateway to a genre that was otherwise forbidden. I wonder where bands like mewithoutYou/Thrice/Brand New fall in this discussion. Are they on the Underoath/NJ side of the equation or the Reliant K side? Great video man. Keep it up.

[@Dougger16]

Ty Elrod totally true! I couldn’t go to a concert unless there was a “Christian” band

[@andrewseier8736]

A lot of kids I grew up with were evangelicals, and their parents would only let them listen to Christian bands, and that was how I got into a lot of those bands. I could have cared less about the message, I loved the guitar work, it was heavy, it made you wanna mosh, it was totally cool with me. But my friends’ zealot parents drove me insane

[@kingchuckfinley]

I know Dustin Kensrue from thrice is super religious, but I never really got that feeling from Brand New (even with a song called Jesus Christ) and especially not from mewithoutyou. Maybe Ive just missed it or don’t know any better. I’m curious to learn more about that though.

[@joshuaread6838]

Yea Thrice isn't really Christian band but Dustin is very religious, he has a solo basically praise and worship sutff. Mewithoutyou was for a long time but they started looking into other religions and and trying out influences form several other religions. He is super awesome and humble and after shows you can talk to him and ive had several discusions with him bout all kinds of things. But haven't in a while so don't know where he stands. and Brandnew that who album was made after the girl from Eisley and him fell out and she went on to marry the guitarist from New Found Glory. It wasnt so much religious it was him in a bad place and mad at her and questioning everything.

[@SpacemanXC]

Same. I remember putting on Zao and my mom started freaking out. "If you can't understand what he's saying then you don't know if he's a christian!" So I show her the cd sleeve. "Lies!" she screams. "It sounds like satan!" To this day she still wont accept that metal can be christian. lol.

[@patrickmccrary3005]

As a Christian who grew up in that scene, thank you so much for you portrayal and opinion on this sub genre. I found this real and refreshing

[@WOLFW00F]

Fun story, back in high school one of my friends was wearing an underoath tour shirt, I say to him, "you know that's a Christian band right?" he kicked me on my leg and yelled "don't ever say something like that again!" I still laugh about that to this day

[@gumbydar]

"You're not making Christianity better. You're making rock n roll worse." - Hank Hill

[@BiggMACKeystone77]

Hahaha!!!

[@ryanahr2267]

It took me so many years to truly understand that joke. I was so offended the first time I heard it :P

[@SigGuy320]

That was a great episode. You've gotta love Hank.

[@TeamLegacyFTW]

Yet no one listened.

[@zachcarson6377]

"I'm still an atheist, but I have learned a lot from Christianity." Amen brother, it's refreshing to hear someone with such an open mind. Rock on. Thanks for the solid content.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Thanks for watching!

[@josefkruppenbacher9173]

I am a pastor in Payson, Arizona, and I was super hard-core into the metal scene at probably about the same time that you were. I actually got into Christian metal in 1999 with Skillet. My first exposure to Christian metal was there album “invincible.“ I did not know that such a thing as good Christian music existed until I heard their music. It wasn’t long before I got into thousand foot Krutch, Rod, Laver, embodiment, living sacrifice, spoken, and many other Christian metal artists. I remember when Underoath got really big, and embraced a more emo sound to their music. What I appreciate about your video, is, it gives me an outsider perspective as to how that genre of music affected everyone else. I also appreciate that you try to stay in the center with your review, and show respectful sides to this genre, instead of slamming everybody. Thank you. I appreciate it. :-)

[@CASSIUSATBESTWV]

Zao strictly toured on churches for a long time, but the band kept getting shit for the style of their music being "demonic." It's easy to see why they got frustrated.

[@z0phi3l]

Demon Hunter got it worse for having the word Demon in their name, I remember just laughing at the ignorant religious zealots spewing hate on great bands just because they chose to dislike the music

[@niicopanda]

I remember the time I was in a local Christian bookstore and asked the owner if she had any Tourniquet albums. She looked left, looked right, and pulled three different Tourniquet CDs out and just gave them to me. Apparently some woman had yelled at her the week prior about the evilness of the band. It was one of the best/saddest days I have had in regards to music and the Church.

[@The_Bass_Stunters]

CASSIUS AT BEST absolutely loved Zao man they absolutely throwed down live!! Living Sacrifice was also my first love for Christian Hardcore Metal!!

[@JK-uy8yi]

If churches practiced what they preached, the christian metal scene would probably rival most just from churches being willing to be venues for them. They only have theirselves to blame for so many of them turning away from Christianity.

[@jackrainwater7966]

Basically a byproduct of being around mentally lazy people. Undoubtedly a result of having all of life's answers in a book.

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

Norma Jean is what got me into mathcore. When I first heard their sound, I got addicted to the raw aggression of their sound. Christian metal, in my opinion, is starting to develop into a favorite genre of mine.

[@summeronio9751]

Good ole Memphis will be laid to waste

[@dt-hf8vz]

man, bless the martyr was a whole ‘nother beast. that album still jams hard

[@vandalistica]

I don't think they've had a bad album yet.

[@brianarnaud3424]

@@vandalistica yea they do... Meridional was not good. Wrongdoers was good, and polar similar was excellent but meridional was trash.

[@joshuaread6838]

Finally someone who knows what mathcore is.....THANK YOU

[@dorcia]

I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember, but GOD DAMN I loved me some TnN bands in the 90's....Focal Point, Zao, Strongarm, Blindside, Unashamed, etc.

[@SpacemanXC]

Dude. I forgot about Blindside. I'm no teddy bear, I'm no teddy bear!

[@dorcia]

@@SpacemanXC Right?!?! They were a TnN staple for me!

[@ChaosandComics]

Same thread as you. Loved these bands pretty firmly atheist too

[@dorcia]

@@ChaosandComics Same with Sleeping Giant, total preach core, but it is still good as fuck. #atheist

[@toumuyu7232]

They're not really hardcore anymore but Emery will always be my favorite band. Underoath and Norma Jean are still awesome to this day. Thanks for the insightful and open-minded video.

[@Johnsrocknvinyl77]

Emery was awesome!

[@apanapandottir205]

"I'm only a man" was soooo good.

[@mikexxxmilly]

That emery album with "walls" is so damn good.

[@trashboy9517]

Came here looking for Emery mentions

[@DrazenX195]

Former Christian. I first came around to hardcore/metal in roughly 2004. Bands like Atreyu, Darkest Hour, All That Remains, etc just resonated with me. Then one of my friends started showing me Christian bands in the scene. Underoath, TDWP, Haste the Day, and Still Remains for example. I had been having a really hard time dealing with PTSD and I had turned to Christianity for help. The music is what really helped me though. Still Remains has a song called Recovery that I'd listen to when I had a panic attack or when the depression got too heavy. It always helped raise my spirits. I love the Christian music scene from then. I've since grown out of it since I've realized a lot of my beliefs don't align with Christianity but I don't have animosity for the religion itself, just some of it's followers. It was a fantastic scene and I still listen to a lot of those albums I grew up with. Thanks for the video. It really took me back.

[@msmith8141]

Loved this video Finn. I've thought the same thing as you when listening to Christian Hardcore bands regarding lyrics. It's one of the things that kept me listening to them because they weren't taking the "life is hard so I'm going to bitch about it" approach but rather a "life is hard so I'm going to power through it and be a better person because of it" approach. That really resonated with me. I loved the positivity versus wallowing in sadness.

[@TreCoolMZFK]

Just a shout out to Demon Hunter. Besides the great mixture of metalcore and alternative metal, their vocalist Ryan Clark did a packaging and design for many bands inside/outside the scene. Thanks for the video Finn!

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

He is an amazing designer!

[@jdavidson091]

Yeah actually know a guy who grew up in like rural Iowa and Demon Hunter was huuuuuuge for him, like the only heavy music he was able to get his hands onto and relate to and they opened up the scene to him. Good stuff

[@garylee8938]

And let's not forget Training For Utopia pre Demon Hunter... I spotted the 'Two Hands' video... Plastic Soul Impalement is still one of my favourite albums all these years later, and I'm not a Christian but the purity (and intensity) of their delivery hit home so much.

[@shanebeacham3348]

So I first discovered the Christian Metal scene back in 2011/12 after I started going to church again and rededicated my life to Christ. I was honestly blown away by how big it was and how much passion was involved with these bands. It’s something I honestly miss with bands nowadays. Unfortunately, a lot of the big bands in the scene either called it quits or ended abandoning the faith altogether. It’s a shame as I’ve always had such a huge love for the Christian Metal community. I even started a small group at my church for people who liked the same music as I do (which were only like 4 people in the whole church but it’s still pretty dope).

[@thecheat1955]

Wow really cool critique of the whole Christian metal genre. You dont hear to often someone who isn't a Christian be respectfully critical. Keep it up!!!

[@TheCryptCrawler]

Christian Metal is a term, not a genre. smh.

[@jonathanbosworth2652]

I am a Jesus follower and i spend my teens twenties, and thirties growing up with and listening to all of these bands. I appreciate how well this was put together and outlined. Living Sacrifice, Extol, Focused, The Blamed, just to name a few changed how my faith grew. Props for creating this video. Kudos for keeping it on the level.

[@nathanblackmon8672]

Your channel is immaculately curated man. So happy for you. This is very well done. Spotify playlists are a nice touch too Also, long live The Chariot.

[@mattkrammmusic1401]

Hail to the Chariot!

[@ParkerRognrud]

Never forget 🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@abrahamquinones6667]

Lol he didn't mention but he did show them playing *I think

[@nathanblackmon8672]

Abraham Quinones lol I saw the drum head 💀💀💀

[@JeserNoob]

long live

[@nickg5156]

Oh man, Norma Jean brings me back. One of my old bands used to jam Memphis Will be Laid to Waste before every show. In fact, we were told that they had recorded their entire album as a complete ensemble in one take so we recorded out first album the same way. It's was actually a pretty cool experience. I don't recommend it for everyone, but it really forces you to focus on your musicianship which I think brings an interesting dynamic to the record.

[@QQyoko]

Man, talk about a nostalgia bomb. You popped up on my youtube recommendations out of nowhere and I'm super happy with it. The pop-punk section, clips from The Chariot, Zao, etc. Thanks for the video!

[@cpottervlog8122]

I'm not a Christian at all but I love the first two Norma Jean albums and everything that The Chariot did

[@croknok4281]

Norma Jean kills it

[@hitthegoat]

Norma Jean is still cranking out top tier stuff

[@AlexJewellAlex]

Fun fact: my first ever Facebook photo was my scene ass in a Norma Jean T-shirt

[@matthewbaker5120]

The Chariot was probably to this day, my favorite band to see live. Their live set was always crazy.

[@burninsherman1037]

Underøath are still one of my favorite bands of all time. Since I've left the faith since first finding them, the newest album is not only fantasy, but incredibly relatable for me.

[@TheDorkKnight23]

My favorite Christian band has been and always shall be The Chariot. No band has ever had more energy or stage presence than them. They could even take on Dillinger for most chaotic shows.

[@joshfairchild]

Saw them on the Haste the Day ending tour with A Plea for Purging and Still Remains, all of that was an amazing show.

[@improvisedchaos8904]

Anything with Josh Scogin singing is gonna be a good band. Luti-Kriss, Norma Jean, The Chariot, and he is now in "68"

[@tdc9rn]

My first introduction to Josh Scogin was at PurpleDoor festival in 2004(?) with NJ. I believe the next year he was there with the Chariot and that show was crazy. Also the festival where I discovered Still Remains on a tiny side stage.

[@HA-vg1hm]

Yes! The chard idiot KILLS! Need more chariot in my life now.

[@blessedskateboarder]

Best concert I've ever seen.

[@succducc9886]

I never paid attention to people in my church who said that metal is inherently satanic when I was a kid. As an adult, I've grown in my faith and I'm really happy that there are christian metal bands who's music teaches lessons that no other genre can. Bands like Wolves at The Gate and Rival Choir do a fantastic job at teaching about the brokenness of humanity and the effects of sin. That's why they're two of my favorite bands.

[@Dougger16]

I love how open and honest you are about this whole genre and how it challenged your thought process. In the end, of course, you had to decide what is right for you.

[@christianrose2233]

That was the most punk intro I've ever seen

[@ryuko098]

As a guy who came of age in the church, in the 90’s, discovering T&N, and then as an adult moving away from my roots, thanks for this video. Great summary. A lot of us are like that: grew up churchy, moved away, but still enjoy the positive or philosophic lyrics and just plain musical genius of many of these bands. It’s been amazing as a father to be able to turn my kids toward actually good music with a positive message, when that option really didn’t exist growing up. What’s so fucking cool today is seeing teens at my son’s HS “discovering” some of these bands, like it’s some cool new thing - and not giving a shit what religion the band identifies as.

[@bonedragon5077]

I remember growing up in the church and also growing up in the punk/hardcore scene as a teenager. Being a christian was an absolute battle to hold onto my beliefs while still enjoying the music and lifestyle. They both felt right to me; speaking out against the ills of the world in a way that speaks in the angry and rough manner that I felt in my heart, but still holding strong to my convictions. When I first started looking into Christian Metal there were a LOT of Hair Metal horse crap that really turned me off to the idea. Then, one of my church friends told me about Project 86. While their sound was a bit more mainstream than what I was looking for, it still gave me hope that there was more out there, I just had to look for it. So, I did. I found stuff like Underoath, Seventh Angel, Mortification, Crashdog, you know... Wow... I suddenly didn't feel like I was being ripped in half anymore. I felt like I could be a Christian and Punk/Hardcore at the same time. I felt... complete. If nothing, the christian-core movement strengthened me as a person, but I also noticed that metal and punk started to take on more of a positive tone from thereon. Even if it wasn't a christian band, I was noticing that bands were starting to take on more empowering and self-affirming lyrics and tones. So, I think that christian-core kinda opened people's eyes to the need for a bit more positivity in the genre, whether they be christian bands or not.

[@jedi982]

I cut my teeth on Spirit Filled Hardcore in the mid-late 90's. My dad was a preacher in a small Illinois farm town but we had a lady from our church who went west and ended up working for T&N Records. She came back to visit occasionally and was basically my connection to the outside world musically. Being a PK I had it rough in that little town and always felt very isolated, so when she turned my on to Unashamed, Focal Point, Living Sacrifice (still my favorite band), Embodyment, Zao...my whole life changed. The music these bands created became like the friends I never had. I would occasionally drive far away to get a chance to see them and went to Cornerstone every year I could. Were it not for that music I don't know what I would be. I love most of the bands that came later, but I was in a regional touring Christian band from 2008-2012 that played with a number of bigger bands and I was not surprised when things began to implode. We could smell the blood in the water and frankly what happened probably needed to. But those early days man...were spiritual for me. Thank you so much for this video Finn. xSFHCx

[@froshanddink]

i was never in a touring band but if you went to and/or played cornerstone and other shows in illinois in the past 20ish years there's a good chance we've crossed paths. what was your band called? have you been to audiofeed?

[@RockCity1111]

Pk here too man..

[@WrapMasterLLC]

Holy smokes... You mentioned Extol...they were.........waaaaaaaay ahead of any curve. Sick.

[@Homedog_]

Yep such a great band, I got saved in '98 and it was extremely hard for me to find good heavy music that I liked in the christian scene; There weren't many bands to listen to, when there were thousands of bands in the secular scene. Extol and a few other bands definitely made the transition a bit easier for me personal. But yea the selection was very slim, just the same as now.

[@Musulll]

The're still amazing

[@memebot6490]

Their self titled is really something else considering the hiatus they went on. They came back in full force

[@jaydenrock]

As a black metal fan. Extol was pretty dope.

[@antoniobasic2779]

Extol blows any of the bands mentioned in the entire video out of the water.

[@christedge]

As someone who was a Christian during this era, and very into the scene, I think you nailed it on the head! One thing I would add is that inside the church there is this us-vs-them mentality for every aspect of life. There are Christian bookstores, Christian schools, and Christian music because it keeps those inside the church “safe” from The World. So, in my opinion, one of the downfalls with the whole Christian music industry is that people inside it realize that it is run just like the secular ones, and I think as these bands progressed in their beliefs they started seeing the hypocrisy. Also, the Christian industry tends to be behind the secular industry by about a year or two (with a few exceptions) so as this style of music fell off the map the Christian one was almost predestined to follow suit a year or two later.

[@nolynylon]

You may enjoy checking out the Exvangelical podcast. They get into a lot of those "us vs them" topics

[@SpacemanXC]

I think the fans also changed. We were both heavily into the scene, and neither of us are Christians today. And scrolling around, there's tons more of us here in the comments.

[@tylerwatts2988]

For Today was very preachy, but definitely not bigots or fakes. They took their faith seriously and we're just following the command of spreading the gospel to others. And many people were touched by it, and that's why I'm a Christian today.

[@dprivetts]

Finn... you out did yourself with this one, my dude! What an incredible video. The level of respect that you gave to what has always been and always will be a socially sensitive subject is admirable. I hate to use the term “safe space”, but with the way you very carefully and meticulously put together this video was a nice reminder to myself as well as many others that, regardless of our beliefs, music can be our safe space and common ground. What an incredible piece of work. You gained some mad respect from a lot of people.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Thanks man, its rare to have that kind of discussion online, but this is proof that it can be done!

[@danielcambridge7592]

Nice video bruh. definitely liked it. only thing i'll add is that august burns red also as went through a period of questioning faith and being labeled as christian. video was top notch though and you mentioned them, just didnt add them to the memphis may fire, underoath, as i lay ding point of questioning faith/type changes. cheers and god bless.@@ThePunkRockMBA

[@moosesandmeese969]

Music is a safe space for everyone and should be one

[@ZenGuru9]

Really appreciate the emphasis on openness, reflection, and change. P.O.D. was my first ever "favorite band" as a kid and Underoath is easily my favorite metalcore band. Despite being agnostic, I've always found the genre very cathartic and important to my own personal growth. Cheers, dude.

[@LieLikesMusic]

Great video! Seems like you know a ton about this type of music. Nice to see a blend of facts and personal experience.

[@oddioventurediscourse]

So cool both of my recent fave music you tubers know each other

[@crazziemonkke]

yeah he doesn’t just read wikipedia

[@joshferguson9703]

I don’t understand why bands like Unashamed and Overcome never get the respect they deserve even in the spirit filled hardcore scene they seem to go unnoticed

[@danielbell4007]

UnderØath still has Christians in the band, but their latest album is not only not Christian but is in fact incredibly anti-christian. Which is unfortunately understandable given that spencer wrote the lyrics and he had a major loss of faith after being poorly treated/handled by the Christian community when he was struggling with his addiction. It actually makes me really sad to think about how little love and support he received from the ones who should have been the first to show it. Just goes to show that Christians are human too.

[@ProgrammedForDamage]

An unfortunately uncommon theme. Mike Herrera from MxPx has drifted from his faith due to the way church pastors treated his look and the fact he smoked. How Dustin Kensrue from Thrice retains his faith after all the Mars Hill Church bollocks is amazing in itself.

[@thousandfootkrutchro]

The new Underoath record is so interesting to me. It is super anti-religion but there are spots in that album make me think Spencer isn't a non believer. I feel a sense of struggle from him kind of like the new LIMBS album too. So much faith struggle due to how people in the certain faith treated them.

[@spark300c]

@@ProgrammedForDamage goes to show he was Luke warm because he care more how he treated and less what god wanted. usually when christian complains about legalism usually mean they are Luke warm because they do not care what god thinks. There is difference between dogwood lyrics and mxpx lyrics that dogwood are more god centered.

[@1thess523]

Aaron has strayed as well.

[@DannyThomson]

Was anyone at the Underoath show in Tampa? Spencer explained the new album, his faith and his life experiences. It was emotional and really eye opening into what he believes in and his love mental state now. Some of them are christian, atheist, and so on. Great band and group of guys and will support them forever.

[@jeremycarnes1656]

Nothing killed us. We're still here. We just lost some bandwagoners. Which is fine by me.

[@michaelmastro9382]

Lol oh no......

[@andresortiz560]

I'm a protestant Christian and have been for 12 years. I also grew up with a ton of these bands so I can probably give you some insider baseball here: When you have any kind of worldview that is so encompassing like Christianity calls for, there is a sort of "maintenance" aspect to that worldview. This isn't exclusive to religion, it's the same with sports, veganism, politics, etc. Soccer players hang out with other soccer players, vegans hang out with other vegans, democrats with other democrats, etc. The problem with a lot of these Christians in bands is that they had to spend 99% of their year on the road for their band to succeed with people who are generally hostile to religion. Think of a democrat spending 5 years working for a republican campaign, a vegan spending 10 years employed by McDonald's, etc. Their minds will almost inevitably change. Some of these guys are still Christians, but because they've spent so much time away from a HEALTHY church that doesn't preach "Jesus makes you rich after you make me rich" bullcrap, they will adapt a more secular view of Christianity that is essentially not Christianity. For fans like me, it took some time to realize that the success of these bands did not make them any more Christian. As a matter of fact, it made them the opposite. As Christians like me grew up we stopped handing over money and attention to these fake bands and so Tooth & Nail and even SolidState had to start signing bands that didn't even make an effort to profess Christianity. It was a recipe for disaster. God worked through it for sure, but that testifies to His mercy that He would "draw straight lines with crooked sticks" The Christian music industry is also incredibly disgusting. Inside and outside the church. Inside the church we widely accept and promote songs that are incredibly vapid, don't even mention Jesus, and would better fit a Taylor Swift record (see Good Good Father by HouseFires) Outside the church it's just trying to be deceptively unChristian while being Christian? People feel cheated haha. See what Lecrae is doing. Listen to Aaron Gillespie's podcast episode on BadChristian. It explains why he was so disillusioned with the Christian music industry. Dude went from making a worship album to saying religion should be nowhere near music. Anyway, love your videos! Hope my comment added something to you.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Very interesting and insightful- and makes perfect sense. Impossible to spend that much time around people without being influenced by them.

[@murcielago7247]

Thanks man its really refreshing to see that. And I wanna be another "as a Christian myself, here's my story" but I started questioning my faith for sure cause I well grew up listening to all sorts of punk and metal while being raised Catholic. Thankfully despiye being gullible & stupid looking back, I was able to grow up open minded and attempt to be more comprehensive; and it honestly scary hearing the idea that some bands are not who they say they are much having the uncertainty cause it can make you go crazy. To this day I'll still go to church (in choir), go to a charismatic conference yet listen to ABR, Sleeping Giant, Bad Religion, PWD, Casting Crowns, and thats an odd list and wide spectrum. And thanks to Punk Rock MBA. I love your content cause it reminds there are times I can learn things outside the church settings and exposes to more great bands whether I like em or not. Hopefully I can keep committed to my faith and be have clairvoyance. Have a good one bros.

[@astrosquirrel5038]

You're absolutely right. As a Christian who grew up listening to a lot of the Christian punk and hardcore bands, I've been saddened to see how many have fallen away or given up their faith or have watered down the Gospel until it's too vague to be of any substance. Many of them just got burned out or lacked a solid group of believers to fellowship with. Thankfully there are a few (like Craig's Brother) that are still going and seem to have that same fire, which is a blessing!

[@abrahamquinones6667]

Woah, Andres is on here? That's awesome, thanks for commenting. Your time with Mouth of the South & working on The Saving was so cool to watch from the outside.

[@theshevanel]

I personally relate more with what Finn alluded to in the video. As someone that was raised Christian with a hyper conservative father in the heart of BFN Tennessee, I loved finding new Christian bands. It was the only thing that made me feel any kind of welcome in the church at all. A band like For Today really felt like such a positive thing, almost like church for those who didn’t feel all that welcome in the actual church. It wasn’t until 4-5 years ago in my early 20’s where I really started questioning the beliefs and indoctrination that I was raised with. It was then that I asked myself the question, “do I really believe this stuff or is the idea of faith just what makes me feel comfortable because I was raised with it, and it’s all I’ve known?” The answer became pretty obvious at that point, as I’m a very logically thinking person, and it just never made much sense to me. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these bands had similar revelations that caused them to stop identifying as Christians.

[@jadonwilliams9194]

Absolutely loved this video man, I know I'm a year late but as a christian, hearing you say you're an atheist, but a Christian ally, gives me mad respect for you. The bands have been listening to a whole lot recently have been fit for a king, sleeping giant, saving grace, August burns red, and demon hunter.

[@matthewrtrego]

I got chills when i saw Extol on the list, thank you so much for making this video.

[@niicopanda]

No joke!

[@toolegit83]

Extol is lit. One of the more underrated bands of the Christian genre

[@holyvacant1427]

Matthew Trego extol 🔥

[@blessedskateboarder]

Repping Extol is awesomeness

[@KingPhoey]

Oh man, all this talk about tooth and nail is bringing back my youth.

[@blessedskateboarder]

Don't listen to any of the current Tooth and Nail stuff, but ya.

[@TheLexiconDevils]

Yeah I was a big Foreigner fan too 👍 it was my favourite shower song at church camp ...

[@bramblecino]

Don’t ever bring up “church camp shower” again. U know what happened at church camp showers. Horrible horrible and hardly any arrests were made. This sickos man!!!

[@mikeperorazio7515]

you are super level headed and i love it. we need more people like you in this world

[@brodyarmbar5332]

i don't think a lot of people realize how many of us punk/hc/metal kids discovered the scene through going to church. i met my group of friends through a unitarian sunday school program in the mid/late 2000s, and i had multiple friends who were into metal/hardcore and also christians. i had listened to that stuff before going to church, but it was what helped me connect with others who also liked it.

[@collinmcclenahan9957]

Also,one of the most powerful things I ever heard a Christian band say about beliefs at a show was Maylene and the Sons of Disaster. They were playing this 3 day fest that a local Christian radio station put on (RIP M88) and Dallas stood up and basically said "the truth is out there but the most important thing is if you're going to believe in something, make sure that you don't just believe because your friends do or some band up here told you to."

[@KevinStudent]

What a time that was! It seemed like most of all the biggest bands were Christian. Not only that, there weren't many bands that were openly atheist or against Christianity (except in the death metal scene). I'm not a religious person (quite the opposite), but some of the Christian bands from that era are still some of my favourites and made some amazing tunes!

[@Jake.r.reinhart]

I grew up in the church fell out and came back. I’ve heard not good things about tooth and nail and I think there is something going on behind the scenes in Christian labels. Also I think Christians viewed these bands as preachers or leaders in the church (unfairly). Leaders preachers And deacons are held to a high standard and I think the pressure was to much. So when they struggled publicly with sin the Christian community rebuked them rather than loved them.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Thats a very good point- at a certain point no human can live up to those expectations

[@Lint42]

I've known people in bands and people who know people in bands that were on tooth and nail. You are correct, they screwed quite a few people making their way to the top of the Christian label ladder.

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

We used to call it tooth and fail

[@imperialwolf7872]

I've been a devout Christian my whole life and am so happy Christian metalcore bands existed. I've always been a huge metal fan but felt somewhat conflicted when it came to my faith and taste in music, a lot of these bands showed me that these don't have to be mutually exclusive from eachother and that I can absolutely enjoy both. It's what kept my inspiration up and helped me continue to pursue music as a passion.

[@Cheemz1]

Amen! 🙏❤️

[@sirlaowery]

I saw As I Lay Dying at the church down the street from my house back in '00. There were probably 40 people there..... good times.

[@btgkg9639]

average joe why to bad? He’s out, they have a new album and it’s damn good. Couldn’t get a ticket to their reunion shows either. Think they’re just fine.

[@IHateMyAccountName]

@@btgkg9639 Tim Lambesis is a hack and a horrible person to represent christianity. Forgiveness doesn't mean outright support and including them in the community anymore.

[@btgkg9639]

@@IHateMyAccountName Well they have been accepted back in the community and they’re doing just fine. Seems a lot of people have forgiven him, so I’m pretty sure Jesus forgave him too. Doesn’t seem very Christian to act like that.

[@SirDougelton]

One honorable mention was the band The Crimson Armada. Which everyone thought was a Christian band because they had spiritual lyrics but the vocalist came out and said it wasn't about Christianity at all. And that they had quoted the Qur'an. They completely fell off the planet after that.

[@Shredxcam22]

Love their first album. Sick af break downs.

[@David-bc3nj]

I had no idea they quoted the Quran

[@joshuaread6838]

Aren't they a NC band...I think they are. We had a lot of great bands come out of NC that you wouldn't expect.

[@brandonburns9046]

I think they classified themselves as a religious band

[@SirDougelton]

@@brandonburns9046 the band has Christan members but the vocalist said they aren't a Christan band.

[@MrDavidBraun]

MAKE A VIDEO ON THE CHRISTIAN POP/PUNK SCENE! Relient k, Hawk Nelson, Stellar Kart, Switchfoot, Mxpx, that was my life growing up!!!

[@Captain.Spaghetti]

Finn, this is a good idea ☝🏽

[@TheLexiconDevils]

Your life was shit then

[@blueecho9792]

@@TheLexiconDevils not to him, maybe for you though. Different strokes for different folks 🤷‍♀️

[@scramblesthedeathdealer]

I loved MxPx as a teenager, and even though I've always identified as a Christian, I didn't know they were a "Christian band," I just liked their music. I met them at a Warped Tour, and they were the nicest dudes, still have an autographed t-shirt!

[@AlexJewellAlex]

Lexicon Devil who hurt you? Holy fuck lol

[@nathanielvann5524]

This video is literally my youth. From POD to Zao to Norma Jean and onward. Excellent and fair analysis of the scene that is so close to my heart.

[@BigDsportsfan92]

Dang, this takes me back. I was ALL into the Christian pop punk/hard rock scene in high school (mid to late '00s). Heck, I still am, even though it's WAAAAAY smaller than it was. It's nice to see someone highlight that scene. And thanks for keeping it respectful! It really does mean a lot, especially nowadays. :) Would love to see a Christian pop punk spotlight!

[@geologyjohnson7700]

Really enjoyed that! Thought it came across really balanced and the personal side was quite touching. I've never been religeous or had any supernatural beliefs, but I totally get what you are saying about the lyrics having a meaning and personal connection. As much as I love the usual metal tropes, as I get older lyrics about self improvement and being a better person, resonate far more than lyrics about serial killers etc

[@ezekielgehr6930]

This video was rad. I think it would be cool if you did a video on the Christian punk bands of the late 90s and early 2000s. Bands like Headnoise, Officer Negative, and you could even go into a little ska like the O.C. Supertones. Good video dude

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Thank you!

[@ruppertb320]

I couldn't agree more! Still totally listen to them!

[@ezekielgehr6930]

@@ruppertb320 Me too dude. I love all three of those bands I mentioned. They are killer!

[@ruppertb320]

@@ezekielgehr6930 Yeah they are!

[@ezekielgehr6930]

@@ruppertb320 Ya don't meet very many people who even know what I'm talking about

[@benjamin.kelley]

Man, the fact that music could bring people together and change lives, whether fans knew it or not, is just amazing.

[@iskandertime747]

Finn, I can't think of a better person than you to cover this scene. Drawing that comparison between the phoney TV preachers and the later phoney bands is so apt. Your definition of punk ( question everything, especially your own assumptions and prejudices) is right on.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Much appreciated!

[@hjbarber]

Bless you for putting an extended clip of the chariot tearing a record store apart in this. long live.

[@fennellyj1]

The Fucking Chariot. Not many bands were as absolutely insane as those guys

[@inmyruins]

You're right--there was this weird period from like 2003-2008 where nearly every band was some form of Christian-core. I grew up in a holler in the Appalachia region of Kentucky and Christian 'core' was huge. There were a ton of local, regional, and touring bands that made their way to our neck of the woods. My personal favorite, Beloved, played one night in a double-wide trailer. There were many others such as the Showdown, Chasing Victory, and other Mono vs Stereo bands (I think this was an imprint on Solidstate, I may be wrong). And then there were bands like Thrice... still to this day my favorite band despite the underlying Christian lyrical themes. Excellent video as always.

[@cjdalton3201]

As a kid that grew up in a Christian house, finding these bands was my introduction to heavy music. And I identified with it for the same reasons you mentioned, it challenged my mindset, I saw myself in the lyrics. I’m not religious any more, but dancing barefoot at a Sleeping Giant show in 2007 was still a spiritual experience in my eyes.

[@nmc7854]

Thanks to my 27 yr old daughter who lived this rise and "fall" for exposing me to you . I'm a 60 yr old very conservative Christian (conservative politics NOT conservative in Theology). I really dislike (personally) the music style she loved growing up - but loved that the lyrics were at least "Christian". Thanks for the education as to what happened to the genre. Even I noticed that the lead part of the description of this metal genre had dropped the "Christian" label. I don't spend much time listening to 17 minute podcasts - and while you aren't needing the endorsement of a "Grumpy old guy" #1 YOU are a very good communicator#2 I hope (and pray - really) that you get a larger following - you are articulate and have a well thought out style.#3 your video background while a little less meaningful to me (I lived thru several of these changes :) ) was helpful.#4 I really love you description of "punk" promoting the questioning of EVERYTHING. #5 I hope your listeners actually can listen to 17 minutes of well thought out 'history". Much of my generation and younger are guilty of having 30 second attention spans - you did hold my attention very well. #6 As a self serving challenge to your listeners/viewers I hope the 'punk' followers also keep challenging/questioning everything ! I still prefer MY music :) but you represent your generation - and I assume other genres well. NOT that you need MY approval :) Neil McNeill

[@davegolen6507]

I grew up where August Burns Red came from . It’s more Amishcore than Christian metalcore.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Dont get hit by a buggy!

[@ianrineer6097]

Where at in Lanco?

[@hiduhman]

shout out to Texas in July

[@markk6151]

lol

[@MatthewCRuffner]

We're homies!

[@lariatpersonified52]

I remember the first show I ever went to was a Christian show. I wasn't Christian, though, being raised in the South, I was surrounded by Christians, and somehow, the promoters for these tiny, hole in the wall venues were able to bring in some pretty prominent Christian hardcore bands. This first show was was opened by a band I didn't know at the time, but ended up becoming friends with members of the band years later, the second band was touring with the headliner, and I don't remember who they were either, and the third band, the headliner, was For Today. I had heard of For Today from my friend's older sister and her boyfriend, and they were the ones who took us to this show. My friend and I, both guitarists, stood in front of the lead guitarist for For Today for their entire set, and he talked with us between songs, answering our endless questions about his pedals and amp, and I was really taken aback by how nice he was the whole night. What absolutely blew me away though, was when he began playing the intro to "Agape." Growing up, I was into Sabbath, Zeppelin, The Ramones, and The Misfits, so when this dude broke out this sweeping arpeggio intro, I was amazed. I'd never seen anything like it, at that point in my life. Over the years, I saw For Today a handful of times after that, and, sadly, each time it felt more and more like their band was a vehicle to recruit Christians, which I was adverse to, so I stopped being a fan. On the topic of how this genre has died down, I don't have any factual reasoning, but I have a guess based upon my own observations of the guys I grew up attending shows and playing music with. Everyone seemed to get older and slowly stopped being religious. I had friends who formed a band in high school, who played very Christian metalcore music, and I know as time went on they had multiple members leave due to ideological differences, either because the band was not Christian enough, or because the band was too Christian, and that seems to be the course for most of the bands I knew growing up. The local headlining bands from my youth all broke up around the time they hit my current age(mid-20s) because they stopped believing in Christianity, or because the members who were still Christian wanted to be more Christian with their music, and the members who had become agnostic/atheist didn't want to keep preaching about a religion they no longer believed.

[@mikexxxmilly]

I am not a christian but ive always felt a deep appreciation for those churches around the country that allowed our band to tour and have amazing shows in a great atmosphere. They really stepped up and gave kids an outlet/weekly activity to stay out of trouble and find something they identified with. That 2004-2007 scene was golden.

[@nathangunz2590]

For my senior trip in 2005 we went to Cornerstone. Shout-out to who remembers when that was a thing.

[@HarryToeface]

Bro cornerstone was so awesome! All of them!

[@dantyler6614]

You'd actually be surprised at how many people in Christian bands are phonies. I got a friend in one of Solid State Records's biggest bands and he's told me stories about how the majority of bands after the Christ core explosion didn't believe what they claimed and were only doing it for the fame, which as a Christian really pisses me off that someone would claim what I believe just for the money. I'm just glad we're getting back to a point where bands are only gonna call themselves Christians if they actually believe what they're preaching

[@MrCourtNelson]

The Crimson Armada was one of the worst about this. They played a bunch of Christian festivals and tours, featured only Christian singers on their records and then came out with a shitty drunken party music video and tried to say they were never a Christian band.

[@succumbtoviolets]

This was true in the late 90s-early 00s as well, there were always accusations, particularly toward Tooth & Nail/Solid State bands but others as well, that they didn't take Christianity seriously and only signed because there was a bigger built-in fanbase in the "Christian music" scene. It's reflective of the long-standing conflict in Christian music about whether bands should primarily be a vehicle for evangelizing, or whether it was ok to be Christians using music to talk about other things in their life.

[@soulexchangemusic]

one of solid states biggest bands? who are the big bands of solid state now? i only know of SIlent Planet

[@dead_beatbunny]

So true. I used to work for Tooth and Nail/Solid State. I noticed a lot of the bands I met were pretty awful people and I casually asked a coworker: so is tooth and nail really a christian label? (Ftr, I didn't care either way but a lot of things made me curious). He didn't answer me for a long time then finally said "Tooth and Nail markets to a Christian audience." And that perfectly sums them up.

[@falselight]

@@soulexchangemusic Solid State is the metal/hardcore imprint for Tooth & Nail, literally every christian band passed through there at one point... Now... there biggest are probably Demon Hunter, The Devil Wears Prada, Norma Jean, Oh, Sleeper, Fit for a King But pretty much every major player in the chrisitian scene was on the label at one point: Zao, Underoath, August Burns Red, The Agony Scene, Emery, Few left Standing, Living Sacrifice, Haste the Day, Devil Wears Prada, HE is Legend, Extol, Figure Four, No Innocent Victim, Training for Utopia, Stretch Armstrong

[@krisleggett3037]

This video gets me in the feels. I'm an atheist but grew up in the unofficial capital of Christian metal/hardcore music Douglasville ga, so I've seen every Christian metal/hard-core band who made music in the mid to late 2000s. That positive vibe is what I needed as an outcast teenager. Love the channel Keep up the good work .

[@jonwujcik4936]

Kris Leggett when the 7 venue first opened they told my band we couldn’t play there bc it wasn’t Christian criteria smh.. Glad that didn’t last, there were a lot of great bands that were not

[@mattkrammmusic1401]

Miss the Seven Venue so freaking much. How did the positive vibe there impact you?

[@krisleggett3037]

@@jonwujcik4936 not shocked actually , but I saw bands like carnifex, emmure and bury your dead there. Hundreds of kids saying bury your fucking dead was pretty funny. While not perfect by any means it beats meth in dville What was your band btw

[@krisleggett3037]

@@mattkrammmusic1401 that feeling of being not being alone got me through the rest of life honestly .

[@jonwujcik4936]

Right, I asked the owner the night the chariot opened the place up but later it changed and I saw BYD with the huge dogpile with everyone screaming bury your fucking dead..

[@tokeypokey]

I still listen to Christian metalcore "religiously" like its seriously my shit. And wolves at the gates newest album is extremely good as are the last 2 sleeping giant albums. To speak of wolves as this really cool spoken word song called rearview memories

[@naterou5]

Sleeping Giant has never stopped killing it. So damn good.

[@tokeypokey]

@IRONHILLdwarf * they arent that great after hearing a few songs from each

[@Danny-ii6ub]

Wolves At The Gate are a great band. I saw them in San Diego like 5 years ago and I was blown away.

[@darkenigm]

WATG just my favorite band of all!!!

[@zinnyzxx]

To Speak of Wolves is amazing