What Makes an Album Sound Dated...or Timeless? (w/Martin Popoff)

[@DJDOGG31]

The Who “Won’t get Fooled Again” is a good example of a song that to me is timeless. The lyrics are still relevant today.

[@wolf1977]

...especially today!

[@ErikCuddles]

yeah they really tricked us with them "vaccines"

[@justinmathewson3692]

Meet the New Boss Same as the Old Boss 😢

[@joebrezel]

Plus, one of our many dumb-ass Presidents made it forever famous by substituting the title for an old adage. Go USA... 🤷🤦😪

[@Hecatecrossways]

For some reason everytime I hear Won't Get Fooled Again I always picture the album cover art of April Wine - the Whole World's Goin Crazy in my mind.

[@JosephSterle]

Looking forward as always, the whole concept of "dated" has never been a negative with me. Most art will inevitably reflect the time it was made in both technically and creatively. So much of why we love old music we grew up with is it makes us nostalgic for those times. So for some what might be "cheesy" 80s sounds is comfort food for me because I graduated high school in 1986. I mean heck, ALL mono music is by definition "dated" but I couldn't live without that. And when I watch a 1960s James Bond for example I LOVE the fact that they feel so much of their time.

[@wolf1977]

How about the other side of this, the music that was 'ahead of its time' at the time it was made (and almost always failed for that reason)? Would be the opposite of this topic & maybe just as fascinating...

[@roblake9856]

I don't think "dated" is the word they should use. It's often overused mistakenly. Dated isn't bad. For example the Cars sound is certainly dated to a period in time but they were AWESOME. They really mean "stale"

[@singahanni]

Spot on: dated can be timeless.

[@pdfortune]

Dated is the opposite of timeless. You can’t be both. It’s like stale and fresh.

[@garrypeak4277]

I know it’s doesn’t really fall into SOTs music demographic, but look how popular ABBA still are. Perfectly curated pop songs like that, never seen to age. I’d 10000% rather hear Dancing Queen than a drum machine & auto tune up the wazhoo.

[@ErikCuddles]

disco sucks

[@dr.s.]

People always use dated as if it was something negative but it can also be something charming that makes a tune more interesting than a timeless piece that lacks all character. An example, I have been listening to The Band a lot these days (since Robbie passed away) and they sound dated, stuff like Music from Big Pink or the brown album don't sound like an album that was just recorded. They sound like an album of their time, but their value is timeless because of that.

[@josephramone5805]

❗️💯❗️

[@aleccopile]

The perfect example of a song that is "oldschool" yet timeless for me is "Sailing" by Christopher Cross. You can tell it's an older production, but it doesn't sound dated. The thing is, I don't see any way to produce this song better these days, even with better technical capabilities than 40+ years ago, because the arrangement and overall production have a warmth that can't be replicated.

[@preving]

That first album by him still sounds fantastic today.

[@ErikCuddles]

songs been timeless since 1492 if you ask me

[@justinmathewson3692]

​@@ErikCuddles🤣

[@smokesignals5569]

I would use Boston’s first album as a good example for this discussion. Amazing production that still sounds amazing today, although you can obviously tell it’s a 70s album. The album is timeless though because the songs are so good and catchy people still respond to them and it resonates almost 50 years later.

[@KickflipGnasty]

Terrific song but I disagree it’s still very dated. You couldn’t show that song to a younger person without them going “Huh??”.

[@Fritha71]

Back in 1987 I rediscovered ABBA thanks to one of my class mates bringing them up one day and then making me a mixed tape of their stuff. I hadn't listened to them since I was a little kid in the mid 70s and listening to it again in the late 80s it really seemed like ancient, kind of dated music from way back when but I still loved it because the songs were great and they brought back a lot of memories. However, a lot of people would chuckle at the thought of listening to that kind of 70s pop music, it was the epitome of uncool. Fast forward almost forty years later and ABBA is now considered to be classic, timeless music by critics and fans alike...

[@ruinousinadequacies7655]

I think what makes a song timeless is how good it is, not the subject matter. Smoke on the water is about a very specific event,but its still quite popular today because of the great riff!

[@djacobmadrigal]

Doesn’t subject matter play a part in how good a song is? For me it does.

[@b.g.5869]

I like the song but I definitely think it's dated; it's a sound strongly associated with early 70s hard rock. Nobody would ever hear Smoke On The Water for the first time in 2023 and think it's a new song. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. There's a lot of music from the late 60s and early 70s that is both awesome and very dated.

[@joeylyons4549]

Exactly. Just because something is “dated” doesn’t make it bad or make people not want to hear it. In fact that is why hearing certain songs that ARE dated take you back in a time capsule to better times. And that is a good thing

[@DJDOGG31]

Vietnam songs were mentioned…Alice in Chains song “Rooster” is another song that to me is timeless. It speaks to the plight of the Vets that came home after serving. “They spit on me in my homeland” as long as those Vets who served in Vietnam are around, it makes it relevant because they lived through that.

[@ErikCuddles]

then when you think about what happens when all them vietnam vets finally do die then maybe the rooster song wont be so timeless no more. but then you gotta think well what if in the future spitting on the vets becomes popular again then the rooster song will become timeless again. man its a mystery .

[@andrewdunn49ers]

I believe some early Black Sabbath sounds very dated, production wise. Yet on the flip side still emotes a timeless energy that I still listen to and love.

[@Gregbaltzer]

I think the 70s was one of the best decades for production. You could hear every instrument without sounding over produced like a lot of modern productions. And the 70s guitar tones were really awesome. I'd take the production on those early Sabbath albums over anything today, and I didn't grow up on Black Sabbath. I probably didn't get into them later in life because I grew up on 80s thrash, and 90s death metal.

[@wolf1977]

@@Gregbaltzer My big thing is bands recording in studio 'live' as a band - in other words at the same time. Not each player recording his/her bits separately & it then being assembled later into songs (with band members sometimes not coming within thousands of miles of each other). Sure COVID forced some of that but it was already being done way too much before that (for me anyway). Kudos to artists like Neil Young for keeping that practice going...

[@Gregbaltzer]

@@wolf1977 I agree, but that holds true to song writing too.

[@patriottex4813]

Who cares if it is dated or timeless. Music speaks to all of us differently. I can hear Chicago 17 and im transplanted back to my fourth grade year and the girl i had a huge crush on. Peter Cetera sang youre the inspiration and when i sang with the song I sang to her. Yet I have many timeless albums and songs in my collection. We all love the music that sings to our souls, eye of the beholder stuff.

[@wolf1977]

Bingo - I agree totally!

[@jeffspicoli763]

Exactly. This subject didn't make much sense

[@brianseneca3546]

I agree! For some reason EVERY time I hear Listen to the Music it reminds me of Gino's Burger chain that was in my neighborhood at that time, dont know why but it does. Boston, Bad Company will always remind me of my Uncle's Dodge Dart. He is only 14 years older than me and was into all the great bands of my youth. I can STILL smell that fake leather interior! lol

[@michaelbenz8092]

Great show. Especially liked Martin's point about guest musicians dating the recording. One thing that makes something timeless is when it is popular across generations, like Queen, Led Zeppelin, the Eagles, etc. I think the Band is timeless because of Robbie Robertson's storytelling. On the other hand, being dated isn't always bad. It serves nostalgia.

[@sdrandazzo]

Looking forward to this very cool topic Pete and Martin. A number of factors can be in play like preferred instruments, vocal styles, band attire, lyrical historic context etc. of a specific era.

[@danielbowden6330]

Maybe expand on this for a future show. Top 10 most dated-timeless albums of the 70s,80s

[@wolf1977]

Also the "most-ahead-of-their-time" albums (and therefore probably commercial failures in their day). SoT may have already done that episode I don't know - I couldn't find one

[@douglashanau3339]

In the 1990s and 2000s , the hip hop verse (8 or 12 bars) took the place of the guitar solo in pop music

[@SGabbert]

The best line in a song that dates it has to be Dennis DeYoung on Borrowed Time from Cornerstone... "Don't look now but here come the Eighties!"

[@patriottex4813]

Pete some songs of protest are still relevant today. Chicago's Dialogue I and II is still relevant to today. War Pigs, Another Brick in the Wall Part 2, WeWont Get Fooled Again to me all of these are still relevant to today.

[@anachronistofer]

Anytime I hear a talk box or a wah pedal... Not timeless, but I still love it. I'm a late 60s/70s dude.

[@fourseasons4105]

It's mainly about production values for me. A song can include extremely dated, of its time lyrics and stories that very clearly tie it to a specific era but as long as the mixing and overall instrumentation hold up that's the main thing that's going to grab my attention and determine the aging of the track.

[@MrFrikkenfrakken]

Recording techniques and technology will always combine to render previous recorded material 'sound dated' intentionally or not. Advances in the instruments, artistic ability and music theory itself will add to the 'dated' sound of past material. And I agree it is not a bad thing - I have never owned and will never own a 'remastered version' of any album, I prefer the original warts and all.

[@wolf1977]

@SixBladesKojiro I'm generally OK with true remasters but not remixes. Generally remixes change the original while remastering removes those sonic "warts". That's fine by me (as long as the 'loudness wars' don't enter the picture) - kinda like removing the clicks/pops of a digitized vinyl album. I've seen the term 'remix' used almost interchangeably but they really are different processes - the mixing stage comes before the mastering

[@dw.dunphy]

A few thoughts: Young people are caught in a time warp of sorts. Old songs trend on TikTok, as was the case with Edison Lighthouse's bubblegum hit "Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes" making a comeback. Streaming services like Spotify serve up a combination of eras, and in this new age of "interpolation pop" where new singers totally rewrite lyrics and sing over old songs, what they gravitate toward has absolutely nothing to do with their parents' tastes. It has everything to do with the way technology serves up this content to them, basically shoving everything that was and will be into the same meat grinder. As for what is and is not dated, well, everything is dated. To deny that even the least egregious example isn't also dated is to insert oneself into one of those terrible Time Life Collections commercials claiming that same thing (and yes, that reference dates ME). Here's the thing. Something being dated is a good thing. It's something to be embraced, not rejected. Moogs from the '70s, chorus pedals from the '80s, dry drum sounds a'la Brendan O'Brien or Steve Albini from the '90s, drop-tuning from the 2000s...these are the patina of music. Being dated reflects survival over time, not necessarily being held back by it. That's why remakes of classic '60s songs over the years regularly sound terrible... ...except for The Bangles version of "Hazy Shade of Winter." I will always give that one a pass.

[@wolf1977]

Comes down to how the term "dated" is used - either derogatory in nature or simply noting that something is old in years (which may/may not be 'bad'). Mere age to me doesn't necessarily mean either good or bad, it's just another fact about a song or artist. The songs should be evaluated based on their own inherent merits

[@jtoms3]

I've always loved Hold Your Fire and Power Windows. For me, not only is the music great, but it takes me back to a simpler time in my life. Pete's comments starting at 45:40 sum things up perfectly.

[@SH-ud8wd]

Lou Reed in New York sings about the news of that time (e. g. Jesse Jackson), but the Kammermusic approach makes it his best album, a timeless classic.

[@interstellaroverdriven6450]

I remember there was a VHS tape of Lou Reed playing all of New York live with a trio and it was AWESOME! I agree it is his best album but Berlin and Bells are very close behind. Ecstasy was a great album too!

[@hammill444]

The world took a turn for the worse when we lost Lou. Boy, did he call it right on New York.

[@zerodok]

Ah the album where he singing about raising an army of liberal children and the ridiculous LAST GREAT AMERICAN WHALE. Far, far from his best album. It's his most politically striving album.

[@SH-ud8wd]

​@@zerodokthat's what I am talking about. The lyrics are completely dated. The music is classic.

[@SJHUE]

Great idea for a video, as you`ve discussed there are several elements involved here. You mentioned brass from the 60`s/70`s and made me think that it`s a shame it died away. A fantastic example of a strong brass production in a theme/pop song is `Avenues and Alleyways` by Tony Christie which was the theme song for the tv series `The Protectors`. Abba almost made a timeless classic pop song with `The Day Before You Came` but in the lyrics they named the tv show `Dallas`!

[@WarhawkBeyond2040]

In terms of what is perceived as "timeless" and "dated", i think it's a case of how our ears are when we listen to certain albums from different periods as we all hear things differently plus i think it comes down to production sounds. Whenever i listen to the first 2 Chick Corea Elektric Band albums, the production at times feels and sounds very typical of the 1980s but when i listen to the later stuff from 1988 to 1993, they sound very modern and fresh compared to those earlier recordings. It still doesn't take anything away from the music as they're still well made but i appreciate and respect that it is of time. It's the same feeling i have when i listen to albums from Steve Wilson which for me are some of the best sounding albums i have ever heard in terms of overall production, they sound fantastic. Even when i hear older recordings from the late 60s to the mid 70s, i am blown away by how good they still sound and a lot of them i think sound better than modern recordings. I think for me, it comes down to what period you were born and raised in as well as how you hear things.

[@LarryFleetwood8675]

The three 1978 Kiss solo albums save for Ace's, all sound of their time which is not necessarily a bad thing but his still sounds in your face fresh today helps too that he kept it mainly one style and didn't go all over the place like the others did, which generally is fine for a solo album format only they probably made them too messy (good as there).

[@hauskahirvi]

I really enjoyed this video and you guys make very good points. Here are a few albums I think have aged really well. This includes the music, the album artwork and the band member's image/style of the time. - Beatles - Abbey Road - King Crimson - Red - Peter Gabriel - So - Eno - From his 3rd album including everything into the early 80s. I find a lot of the 80s production techniques dated (or at least not that appealing to me) like gated drums, sterile sounding synths (DX7 replacing Hammonds, etc.). But in hindsight many artists embraced the technology better than others such as Art Of Noise, Genesis (even thought I prefer the 70s Genesis).

[@jydymyyyr9630]

Songs/Artists that are dated now will either be forgotten or become classics in the future. Jimi Hendrix was essentially forgotten in the 80s, albums were difficult to find and no songs were played on the radio. Jump ahead 20 years, and he and his music was re-discovered; everybody now refers him to being the greatest guitarist (and maybe musician) every - an innovator, master and influence. Talent is talent, no matter the era!!!

[@wolf1977]

The cyclic nature of music (and art, fashion, tv etc - maybe pop culture as a whole) - absolutely

[@cleftturnip7774]

I think the term dated is meaningless.

[@ErikCuddles]

in the 80s a lot of people believed jimi was a white man trapped in a black mans body. im not sure if they ever proved it one way or the other but its not true he was forgotten because everybody was always debating that. pete and martin will back me up on this.

[@petebrown3715]

I have to disagree with your assessment of Hendrix being quote " forgotten" in the 80's( since I grew up then). Classic rock radio played Hendrix quite a bit. At that time some stations mixed the 60's, 70's and 80's new releases. I'm not sure where you lived in the US, North America ,Europe etc.but I had no problem finding Hendrix albums/ CD's, posters, t-shirts etc. Hendrix songs played on the radio back in the 80's and on streaming now - Hey Joe, Foxy Lady, Purple Haze, Cross Town Traffic, Voodoo Child etc. I do agree that Hendrix was and always will be considered one of the greatest guitar players of all time no matter the era.

[@jydymyyyr9630]

@@petebrown3715 Glad to hear you got to hear lots of JMH on the 80s. I was in North Dakota USA at the time and he was absent from the radio. Luckily I snatched up all his records I could find and enjoyed hours of listening pleasure. And I still do! I enjoyed your comment...

[@arnaudb.7669]

Fascinating topic and discussion. Keep up the good work!

[@b-man2225]

I think the best band based in the psych rock category but explores multiple other generes like jazz fusion, prog rock, metal etc is King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard..I'd love to hear both of your guys opinion on them, they have grown to a massive worldwide draw in the last few years especially post covid..all their new albums have been spectacular but different from one another

[@Wayner71]

Hip choir-like backing vocals in the style of 'The Association' were very popular in pop and rock from 1966 to 1972. The female backing vocals in Marvin Gaye's 'Whats Going On' album are a late example of this style. This particular vocal harmonic style is a dead giveaway of music from around 1970 and did not persist beyond 1972. Music with that vocal style is very evocative of the Late 60's/Early 70's period. The vocalization in 'Never My Love' by The Association is a prime example of this musical form.

[@747jono]

Brilliant show wow many aspects of music covered fantastic.

[@petebrown3715]

Great show gents. Tons to think about and debate about.

[@DamnableReverend]

It's my opinion, as someone interested in history and such things, that most art is always "dated", including stuff from today. And that's fine. I think we also should try and get past the idea of using "dated" as a pejorative. It's not a negative thing. Everything was created in its context and that context is in itself fascinating.

[@wolf1977]

True...

[@matthewjachimiec]

Good point about the instrumentation, Pete. I don’t think instruments usually date an album or band all that negatively, even if they are representative of a certain decade. For instance, Steely Dan’s music features a heavy dose of electric piano and horns and is very representative of 70’s music in general. However, I would argue their music has aged extremely well and is timeless on the strength of the songwriting, musicianship, lyrical wit and overall production value.

[@fredrickbaker7686]

A good conversation would be about albums that are both timeless and sound dated. Grand Illusion comes to mind.

[@johnmichaelwilliams6694]

Popoff and Pardo are it again with a viewer recommended discussion of timeless and dated. Somehow, at least so to date, Martin and Pete never seem run of ideas that rarely cross my mind but are fascinating to think about and hear their discussions. Born in the 50s, a lot of the 60s recording definitely had a particularly identifiable sound but most of the view of rock and roll at the time was that it was viewed as faddish or temporary and would not survive as music of interest. Plus, those of us listening were generally listening through transistor radios and we were just thrilled to be able to have portability of music and transistor radios were not particularly known for high fidelity. Production and lyrics usually are the usual personal hallmarks of dated music but they don't diminish my fondness of the music still loved after all this time. Thanks for another captivating episode, gents. There ya go!

[@cleftturnip7774]

The main thing that dates an album is putting a date on it. I wouldn't want my music judged by what date it was released.

[@aquabot]

One category you forgot is Composition. The way the songs are composed, the gimmicks used that were specific to a certain era, the scales used, the chord progressions, etc, etc...

[@dangrise6182]

I think Martin was spot on when he cited the production from 1973 through to the late 1970s as timeless. That was the period where they more or less perfected analogue recording. I remember reading before how they took special care in positioning the microphone for the best drum sound and things like that. For most of my life I've never been a drum aficionado but once I started revisiting 1970s vinyl I've marvelled at how authetic the drums sound on those albums. Maybe you will think this is a weird example but take a listen to Attractive Femaled Wanted from Rod Stewart's Blondes have More Fun album. Tell me you don't love how the bass drum was captured on that song.

[@gregwasserman2635]

This was an episode that made me really think about when something is or becomes dated. I think it the sound can date it (like disco or new wave synth), the production and technology, and the song itself, meaning do the lyrics date it? "War Pigs" is still relevant today, for example. Sure, there are some production aspects that will give away when it was recorded, but the lyrics are definately timeless and relevant. A song like "Kashmir" is also timeless, though the fact that Robert Plant is actually SINGING and not autotuned gives it away as something from an early, more civilized time. There are also certain genres that are characteristic of a time period, like nu metal and disco. And then again, it who is doing the listening will bias what one considers dated and what is timeless. Addendum...sorry about paraphrasing much of what Pete and Martin stated after watching this again. Great episode though.

[@wolf1977]

Funny I was just listening to some Lee Fields (soul) albums recently & even though they're all recorded in the last 20 years or so, if you didn't know better you'd swear they were 60's/early 70's soul albums (production and all)...Which is to say I like 'em a lot even though they're not old!

[@gregwasserman2635]

@@wolf1977, another example is some country artists who sound "old school". Though I listen to mostly hard rock and metal, I listen to a lot of other genres of music. Old school country has some outstanding musicians (Chet Atkins, Roy Clark, Glenn Campbell as a small example) and I enjoy listening to it. I'm told Jamey Johnson is "old school" and what little I have heard from him, I won't argue! I think Martin and Pete talked about that sort of thing, though it's often the production that gives away when something was recorded.

[@TheRealDannAlexander]

Martin - I'm taking either Who Invented Heavy Metal? or Smokin' Valves: A Headbanger's Guide To 900 NWOBHM Records with me on vacation next month.

[@stephenparker9434]

Some analogue accoustic based albums don't seem dated at all. 1970s albums recorded 50 years ago by say Nick Drake (Five Leaves left) & John Martyn (Solid Air) sound fresh as if they were recorded yesterday.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Discussion of dated albums always reminds me of Legs Diamond who did three great albums in the 1970's (Legs Diamond, A Diamond Is A Hard Rock and Fire Power) which very much stand the test of time for me, especially since Rock Candy remastered the albums. But then came "Out on Bail" in 1984 which I do think could be a really good album, the songs on it are great, especially the title track with a killer opening riff - but then the drums start and they are electronic drums which continue throughout the whole album and just firmly pin the album into the 1980's. A real bad production decision because I think "Out on Bail" would probably have been my favourite Legs Diamond album if it weren't for those damn drums!

[@tionmedon9199]

80's synth and digital drum sound (which most of you hate) is the reason I love 80's music. Probably because they became a part of my Dna. As for the 70's, while I find the original sound of the era really dated, I'm totally fine with the remasters. That's the opposite with the 80's, you just cannot touch that crystal clear sound.

[@MartyMurray]

As you were saying, about the look and the sound of the 70's being timeless, or coming out the least changed, aside from being 50 years older, for myself, I still look and dress kind of the same. I still have my long hair and I still wear jeans and t-shirts most of the time, though the bell-bottoms have long gone. Now I prefer the straight leg jeans, and for a time I incorporated a bit of the punk rock look in my appearance, and maybe still do. When the Ramones came out, my one friend and I, for about two years, were the only two guys in Niagara Falls who looked like them - black leather jackets, aged jeans, t-shirts and white running shoes, and the long hair still. People eventually caught up, but when we were doing that, it was the disco era and it was all about flashy clothes and gold chains and shirts open to your navel. How ridiculous does that look now? And then going back to a sound that seems dated, I remember a time when the police were the biggest band in North America, with their reggae influenced sound and the shimmery compressed guitars. As good as their music was, who listens to that now? Even Rush got on the bandwagon and began doing music that sounded like the Police. Those 80's production values are definitely the most dated sounds to ever come out of rock, but 80's music is definitely making a comeback. Maybe it's nostalgia, I don't know, but a lot of local bar bands are doing 80's hits and drawing good crowds with it. For me, you have an album like the Doors debut, which came out in 1967, and to my ears and many others sounds just as good now as it did back then. I recently got the 50th anniversary "Dark Side Of The Moon," and I marveled at how beautifully recorded that album was. It still sounds totally amazing.

[@h.m.7218]

For me, the epitome of timeless pop rock music is 70s Steely Dan.

[@wolf1977]

To me the epitome of timeless music is The Beatles (and to a lesser extent The Beach Boys - just watched a really fascinating bio of Brian Wilson called Love & Mercy from 2014 on cable)

[@Floodland-bn3ol]

It definitely sounds of its time but people keep going back to it and discovering it for a reason and I think the music and performances supercede the gear & trends of the time.

[@interstellaroverdriven6450]

Gated drums have dated horribly. I will NEVER forget my shock and horror as a wee lad upgrading from my cassette tapes of ZZ Top (the WB 2 for 1 with Tres Hombres and Fandango was KILLER) for the ZZ Top Six Pack and hearing the absolute mess of gated drums and horrible production. I cried a lot that day. It took YEARS to finally find vinyl FLAC rips to replace my crappy copies.

[@MosoKaiser]

Thankfully they eventually (finally!) released the original mix versions on CD, in 'The Complete Studio Albums 1970-1990' box set, but it sure took its damn time for that to happen, 2013 to be exact.

[@FuturePast2019]

They were just making the albums sound like their hit album Afterburner... 1986 sound: Every album needs a remix.

[@waverlyking6045]

An example of a song that had timeless lyrics with dated production is Elton John’s “Empty Garden”. This song would have been incredible had it been just Elton’s voice and a piano. Instead, we get goofy and needless keyboard noises that distract from the emotional subject matter and Elton’s phenomenal singing.

[@SmartDave60]

The production jump from Zeppelin 3 to Physical Graffiti is astounding.

[@danielmcevoy976]

I'm not sure about this topic but Wishbone Ash Argus and Jethro Tull Thick as a Brick sound like the 70's to me and thank God! Timeless for me anyway.

[@LarryFleetwood8675]

I like '70s music and albums, they're caught in a time capsule and there's nothing wrong with being historic pieces of art.

[@wolf1977]

@@LarryFleetwood8675 I'm still amazed at how much good rock music came out of the 70's. I find 'new' music literally every day from that decade

[@danielmcevoy976]

@@wolf1977 well said both of you. I'm 53 and love 70's music. I only discovered Wishbone Ash after watching SOT... shame on me but true.

[@colinrgage]

The live album is a great subject in the 70s it seemed like something to aim for,as for lyrics being dated I always think of people the age of kiss singing christene 16 Another great show

[@jasongaylor2232]

People will say "dated" like it's a slur or a bad thing. I'm like...that's exactly WHY I like it! It's a time capsule. Although there is plenty from the late 80's that makes me cringe.

[@theartofhavoc5467]

"Owner Of A Lonely Heart" sums up the "dated" part of this (again very entertaining) episode. ☝️

[@josephramone5805]

'Time And A Word' is most certainly "dated", but that's what makes it so attractive to me. The organ, drum and bass grooves, as well as the vocals are stuck in time. Yet, I listen to that Yes album more than any other by the band. Dated is not a bad thing.

[@jamesburgess1010]

Not at all trying to be a "contrarian", here. I generally get excited over a song sounding dated! Like many of my favorite songs, it will just transform me to a specific time period in my life.

[@glennandadriansrocktalk]

Great show, guys!

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Everything eventually sounds dated, but whether that is a positive or negative depends on your tastes regarding a particular era.

[@kamranmalik8546]

Synthesizers in the mid to late 80s. Drums also I’ve heard in different decades

[@martymartin2894]

Just starting to watch but one massive component is great production along with great songs obviously.

[@billymac72]

Drum machines!

[@scottricci5063]

The tinny snare

[@ianbrown3304]

Caveat.. drum machines programmed badly.

[@lateramae]

Lyrics definitely play a big role when it comes to timeless music. Especially when it comes to music that came out during the pandemic. That's something I personally do not want to revisit ever again, especially through the music I listen to. But at the same time, you have a song called "Gimme Shelter" by The Rolling Stones, which the lyrics were inspired by the Vietnam War, that is considered a classic to this day!

[@jimmyjambhere]

The first 7 Iron Maiden albums from the 80’s are definitely timeless. Martin Birch RIP

[@glschupner]

Classic rock from the 60's and 70's is timeless for the simple fact that all the bands sounded different from each other, so each band sounded unique. Today's radio airplay all sounds the same. Even in the Prog scene there seems to be few advancement's in new styles. A lot of the neo-prog stuff sounds dated.

[@Michael_Birk]

70s Yes, ELP, Genesis sounds dated AND timeless at the same time. But to me, it sounds timeless in an ultimate way... like some of it could be from a thousand years ago, a thousand years from now, fifty years ago, or five years ago. I believe if that era never happened, but started happening next week, it would have an impact. Maybe not a chart topping impact, but it wasn't necessarily chart topping back then... but had an impact. That goes for LZ, The Who, Sabbath, Tull, and others too. Wherever/when ever it all started, say it was Sgt. Pepper... rock music became like a peacock showing its feathers. Most of today's music is like a pigeon fluttering around, at best. Though, outside the mainstream there is still music coming out today that is nearly, or just as sublime as the SOT type genres and eras. The funny thing is, the good and great modern stuff is essentially new versions of Classic Rock (prog and otherwise). Whether it's Greta Van Fleet, Animals as Leaders, or Indie Rock, you always hear Beatles, LZ, Sabbath, Bowie, or the Prog greats in it.

[@christianman73]

I don't necessarily have a problem with a song or album sounding "dated," because almost all music eventually sounds dated, at some point, in one way or another. The question for me is, "Is it dated in a good way, or in a bad way?"-- and I admit that this is partially a matter of my subjective taste. I love '70s soul and funk with lots of wah-wah guitar, and that is a "dated" sound, but I love it, and I wish it would return! 🙂I also feel the same way about classic '80s thrash metal-- I want more of that sound in today's metal! Maybe the most cringe-inducing way of being "dated," for me, is in the lyrical expression of certain extreme political viewpoints (whether on the far right *or* the far left) that just have not aged well, or were even ridiculous, to some extent, at the time. In 1987, many of my fellow heavy metal friends *loved* M.O.D.'s album, "USA For M.O.D." However, even in '87, lyrically speaking, certain songs on it really bothered me and seemed very backward-thinking, to say the least, in some openly, unashamedly bigoted, very extreme far-right ways. At the complete, utter opposite end of the "political lyrics" spectrum, I recently bought and listened, for the first time, to the 1970 album, "Blows Against the Empire," by Paul Kantner and Grace Slick (of Jefferson Airplane) and a bunch of their musician friends. Some of the lyrics were *so* very radically left, in an "early '70s, Bay Area radical left" way, that they came off, to me, as embarrassingly dated expressions of certain viewpoints that were misguided even in 1970. (I'm not referring to the generally anti-Vietnam War lyrics-- no problem with those.) I guess, for me, with both the M.O.D. album, and "Blows Against the Empire," and certain other albums, very extreme political lyrics, tied to a particular time, regardless of whether the ideology is far-right or far-left, can date music in worse ways than anything that is actually related to the music. I'm definitely not saying that I dislike *all* political lyrics in music though. Some of Bob Dylan's classic songs are socially/politically inspired, and I love them. '80s thrash metal could be lyrically political too, and I loved it then and still love it.

[@josephramone5805]

Well-said! Although extreme views through lyrics, as you've described, can be "dated", they're not necessarily a bad thing. They can be likened to a history lesson, a snapshot of the times. A few weeks ago I watched "Good Times", one of my favorite shows when I was a kid, and I couldn't stand how dated it was. But after thinking about it, I realized how the show was brilliant in capturing a snapshot of what it was like to live during the 1970s in American black ghettos. The entire show is a history course on the topic.

[@christianman73]

@@josephramone5805 Thanks for the comment! I hear you on certain songs, and TV shows, being like history lessons, snapshots of peoples' lives and experiences. I love "Good Times!" "All In The Family" is also a "dated" show, in certain ways, but I love it too.

[@sspbrazil]

A timeless song is like a timeless film, it has a lot to do with the subject matter and story, if it can be heard or seen in different cultures and different countries and still resonate with people then it is timeless, music of it is has to do with the overall theme and in the case of music, the melody and instrumentation as well.

[@bmartin2112]

Lots of 70's pop music featured some sort of mallet percussion (xylophone, glockenspiel, etc.)

[@ralphmuller6040]

I think music can sound 'dated yet acceptable' or 'dated and embarrassing'. Especially if an artist was trying to incorporate a 'hip' (speaking of dated) sound into the production. An 'orchestra strike' keyboard sound/sample comes to mind. Some sounds/techniques can almost be dated to a particular year, especially in the 80s.

[@DesignRhythm]

I believe timeless songs are due to their quality, not the lyrics, references or instruments, production, samples, etc. Don McLean "American Pie" never fades or Hendrix "Voodoo Chile", Rush "Tom Sawyer" etc. all have a classic yet simultaneously modern/fresh sound. As Ray Charles said there's only two kinds of music, good & bad.

[@GodsOnlyGospel]

great thoughts fellas. Got an idea for a show one day, how about your top 3 or 5 acts from any genre any decade on the same bill. One concert 1 hour for each artist/band. Love the monsters den btw

[@rickschricter]

I disagree that the Vietnam war era music is dated if that was the suggestion. Referencing any war is relatable because there is always war or the threat of war. A song like "Fortunate Son" resonates today just like it did then.

[@takodabostwick8507]

I actually would be watching some shows on KZbin sometimes. I'd lie to some at college and say that I saw a show from a certain band I like. I could have seen Yellowcard, but I couldn't because it was college radio night and my parents had to go to a wedding the day after that. So I when I was at college for lunch, I decided to check up a Yellowcard show on KZbin and say that I saw Yellowcard live. I had to save up money for my vacation to Memphis, which I sad was awesome and unforgettable. Not doing any other trips next year because I'm gonna have a graduation party since I'll be done with college. Next trip ain't going to be until next winter, when I'm free from college. Heading to the Army-Navy game in Maryland. During the trip I'll be going to DC to see the Holocaust Museum because I took a Holocaust course and my professor told me about other places to check up history. And I was like, that's interesting. I'll keep that in mind.

[@marcussimendinger3065]

The Kinks. Lyrically they reference a lot of time and place stuff. At the same time the ideas behind them are kind of timeless.

[@wolf1977]

I love their unapologetic "British-ness" (kinda like early Genesis) even though I'm not British. Davies has a real knack for writing timeless lyrics - one of my top 3 all time bands

[@jeffreyrobinson9120]

I don`t think a "dated sound" is always necessarily a bad thing. Very often the appeal of music is the nostalgia factor. The enjoyment a piece of music brings because it takes you back to a certain part of your life. Lyrically, a well written song about a specific time or event can still be relevant to a later generation. Wars have always been and will always be. CCR`s "Who`ll Stop The Rain" or "Run Through The Jungle", even though written in and for a specific time, will always resonate.

[@NotData]

We can also talk about albums that were created considering the vinyl medium. For example, I'll bet you can think of many albums with one long epic song on one side and 4-6 more normal songs on the other side.

[@mar290377]

Love that you can hear that a certain record is from 86, and could only have been made I 1986 cause style and production . .

[@leepassmore7032]

That's the way I feel about a lot of stuff from 1982-86.

[@perpetualmotion357]

I think a song like Kashmir sounds timeless. If I didn't know anything by Zeppelin, and someone asked me when I thought that song was made, I'd definitely have some trouble with it. Since it's really good and epic, I'd probably have a couple decades in mind but there's nothing about it that sounds dated to me.

[@creech54]

You guys forgot the Sitar and other Indian instruments. Takes you right to the late '60 s. 🙂

[@parallaxcontinuum7898]

It's the "electric sitar" ("My Green Tambourine")that sounds cheesy.Or, a bad imitation of Spector's " Wall of Sound " (mixed with a string section)'production like The Cake's "I don't want him ".

[@kylewoolsey6635]

Digital may not be cool, but it’s amazing to see nearly the entire collection of more obscure bands like Half Man Half Biscuit. There isn’t really a market for joke bands to get radio play, but it’s fun to get songs like National Shite Day added to the collection, since you won’t find their stuff at the local record shop with a catalog out of print.

[@davidenders9282]

Kenny G played a soprano sax. That's the straight one & the highest pitched saxophone. Next are alto & tenor witch are similiar in shape, alto being smaller and a higher pitch then tenor. Relate woodwinds directly to vocal pitches.

[@irishspagetti6565]

Zeppelin's Misty mountain hop where it mentions 'lots of people with flowers in their hair'

[@DesignRhythm]

You mentioned saxophone - listen to Morphine - their music is now 2+ decades old, but still sounds timeless / incredibly unique, fresh.

[@jimmyjambhere]

I still can’t understand why Pink Floyd never released a live album back in their hey day 1973-1983. We do have 2 live albums from the post Waters PF which are ok I guess. The later era 1987-94 tried to compensate the loss of Waters with a dozen extra musicians lol They did release Is There Anybody Out There? But not until 2000. Which is still my favorite “Official” PF live release. Also, don’t get me started on the lack of video there is from 1972-1983. Lol 😂 There has been that cool live footage that recently surfaced from ‘75 I believe. Which is AMAZING!!!!

[@glerp10000000000]

A dozen extra musicians is a bit of a stretch. And it wasn't to compensate for Roger, but to reproduce the recordings live as close to the record as possible. He didn't play sax, keyboards, percussion or provide the female backing vocals on previous tours. There were a whole bunch of extra personnel for the Wall shows too. And how many people does Rog have on stage for HIS shows ?

[@allornadaaccordingtojack7601]

As I started chatting at the tail end; who usually comes up with these Friday morning at the funhouse show ideas? Just curious.

[@seaoftranquilityprog]

It's a mix from both of us, and ideas that get requested from viewers.

[@Hecatecrossways]

Speaking of a certain time period. What about long drum solos???

[@DropAnchor1978]

I think sometimes the qualities or elements that date the music make it MORE desirable as time goes on. Disco and real strings, New Wave and analog synths can instill nostalgia.

[@kowalsolosolo]

Interesting subject. There is one,special album .""Within The Realm Of A Dying Sun"" recorded by DEAD CAN DANCE. It is probably their ultimate masterpiece. If you are not familiar with it,listen to it but do not look at the date of the recording. You will NEVER guess when it was recorded,this music is absolutely timeless.Why? I am not sure,for years I have been trying to solve that mistery.

[@DeliRevv]

Sometimes a dated sounding album isn’t such a bad thing in retrospect. A good example that comes to mind is Kiss’ “Crazy Nights”. In the Kiss catalog, it’s pretty low in terms of what people consider a classic Kiss album. Lots of reverb, super glossy production, cheesy lyrics and even cheesier synths combined with the look of the band (AquaNet, spandex and BC Rich guitars) just screams 1987 to me. But for those of us who were old enough to remember those days, it serves as an instant Time Machine to transport us back to the days of Swatch watches and land line phones and that’s not necessarily a bad thing to me.

[@stephenjefferies5101]

Interesting discussion, but maybe you want the album to be dated. After all music takes you back to when you first heard it. The image on the front cover can reinforce that feeling.

[@jasoneubank514]

Here is two albums that sounds Dated 1)Aerosmith Get A Grip 2)Michael Jackson Dangerous

[@b.g.5869]

A couple of thoughts come to mind regarding the question of music that sounds dated. The first is that there's a lot of great music that also sounds quite dated. Nobody would ever mistake a Jimi Hendrix song for something made recently, but it's still awesome. And there are bad old songs that don't sound dated. I see it more as an objective quality of the music. I think the more acoustic a song is the less vulnerable to time stamping itself it is. Technology tends to place music in a particular place and time.

[@wolf1977]

Hendrix - Frank Marino (Mahogany Rush) often gave off serious Hendrix vibes, besides the silly rumors that he was Jimi reincarnated...More recently check out Randy Hansen. Besides being maybe the best Hendrix 'tribute artist' around (for over 40 years) many of his original tunes are very much in the same vein - and he can play (the vocals are probably the weakest link). Tracks like "Personal Disneyland", "Izaiah", "Paramount" & "Odd Ball" from his 2015 Funtown could be Hendrix tunes. His s/t 1980 album rocks. The live stuff really shines, too bad the sound isn't better. At one point in the 90's he teamed up with Buddy Miles - kinda like Greg Sover this year on his album His-Story... Of course there'll never be another Jimi Hendrix (and not just because of his immense talent - also the time period he was in & other social/societal factors)

[@b.g.5869]

@@wolf1977 Thanks for the recommendations. I'm familiar with Frank Marino but am definitely looking forward to checking out Randy Hansen.

[@mathewsandford3796]

Synth sounds have always been a big make-or-break with me. Surprisingly, I find that analogue synths have aged better than early 80s digital synths - especially in soundtracks. 80s soundtracks are painful to revisit!

[@independenceltd.]

they were painful in the 80s

[@dav6068]

I agree totally. The 80s synth sound in every genre is a big eye roll.🙄

[@troycleek7394]

In most cases I agree but the Das Boot soundtrack holds up to me. Also Midnight Express.

[@neuroisis85]

Timeless to me means not really sounding of your era or being ahead of your time. I'm not talking about production because you can't really do anything about the recording technology of a specific time period. I'm talking about composition, if the songs themselves pointed to new sounds and genres, if the band was doing something different and more interesting than their peers.

[@wolf1977]

To me The Beatles (especially the earlier stuff) sounded "of their time" but it's also classic/timeless music. So I think some bands/albums/songs can be both. Of course they also took music in new directions as well...There's also such a thing as being too far ahead of one's time (in which case it almost always fails - at least until the times catch up). For some reason this also brought to my mind things like 'future retro' movements, like art deco in the 20's/30's & the 50's idea of what the future might look like (often referred to as The Golden Age of Futurism). It looked futuristic back then & it looks quaint now. Of course we still don't have flying cars so...

[@purpletemple1]

You could do an episode about surprising albums, good or bad, which surprised the whole world or just you. Cheers.

[@harperhellems3648]

Here's a concept: When should bands stop "milking It". For instance, one of my favorite rock/radio hits is the Zombies' "Time of the Season." It was weird/disconcerting to see them on youtube in their late 70s/80s still performing it. When should our musical heroes walk away? Can we agree that Ska doesn't need a comeback?

[@domielakrabi3276]

Pete's T-shirt is timeless. Miles Davis was and still is relevant today and I'm sure he will remain relevant in the future.

[@LightBeamer777]

For me, I think it's just production. When I listen to old Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Led Zep, and others from the '70's it sounds dated. However, Genesis, Yes, ELP, and others from the '70's doesn't. I don't understand it. That's just the way it is.

[@davidsummer8631]

It seems to be that when a band now releases a live album its more likely to be a concert from their past rather than a recent concert

[@b.g.5869]

As I think about this very interesting topic more it seems to me there's a difference between music that's sounds dated and music that hasn't aged well. I think most music sounds dated in the sense that it's typically pretty obvious what period of time it comes from; but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Similarly, I think music can simultaneously be timeless and sound dated. I think a songcan reasonably be considered timeless if it appeals to people of all generations even though it's obvious that it's not a song of recent vintage. Lots of classic rock falls into this category. But there's also a different sense of "dated" and "timeless" which has less to do with how broad the multigenerational appeal a song has than how obvious it is when it was probably recorded.

[@brizzieleif5258]

Bad choices in synth and keyboard sounds, especially in the 80’s. The gated reverb on drums, it started with Phil Collins with In The Air but then it got overused, Black Sabbath Born Again, The Firm and Twisted Sister You Can’t Stop Rock n Roll, had that drum sound

[@b-man2225]

For a band like King Gizz touching on so manny generes that could be considered dated it's interesting how big of a following they have cultivated among young people such as myself hahaha I was born in 89 and the 80s sounds like the most dated decade, first thing that comes to mind is Rush in the 80s after Signals especially hahaha