What’s a Monoculture? How Artists Are Bigger and Smaller Than Ever

[@aadaejohnson-lr4cg]

This is so interesting…. It seems that Monoculture birthed the Superstar. I always wondered what made artists like Queen, Michael Jackson, Prince so prolific, and why that style of Superstar doesn’t exist today. It really is interesting to see how the musical landscape has evolved.

[@laj68]

Because their are really talented and unique great music, now is hard to find these days.

[@kelechi_77]

@@laj68No its because the mythos cannot be created anyway because of the advent of the internet, we hve too much access to people

[@kenz2756]

​@kelechi_77 I agree, people are looking at this with the wrong perspective. You see one in a million talents in the internet pretty often, they're just not an actual celebrity per se.

[@chalkandcheese1868]

Taylor Swift is as big as them, she toured Australia recently and she was everywhere, no other artists today comes anywhere near that.

[@metjovi]

​@@chalkandcheese1868 You said it, "recently", "today". The thing is, Mercury, Jackson and Prince are long gone now and we still remember them and feel their influence on culture. I wonder if Taylor Swift will be remembered at all a decade after she retires.

[@NJStew22]

I'm in a post rock band that doesn't draw too big a crowd in the United States, but last fall we went on an 8 show headlining tour in China and sold a couple hundred tickets a night. It was mind boggling to us to have fans coming out to every show on the other side of the planet, but in our home country we're barely getting by. It opened my eyes to the different markets and the way different music reaches different cultures in a really palpable way.

[@SonovaBish]

Most of my favorite modern bands are spread across Europe and Brazil. I'm the other side of that feeling of yours. I listen to Stoner/Doom.

[@kanjuro8926]

I didn't even know there was a "post rock" music

[@TrueMithrandir]

@@kanjuro8926you must have been living under a rock for the past 30 years then...

[@NJStew22]

@@kanjuro8926 It's a wide umbrella that encompasses *mostly* instrumental based rock music, and commonly there are also some electronic elements. Explosions In The Sky, Mogwai, Godspeed! You Black Emperor are some of the giants of the genre. Believe me when I say the genre name "post rock" is not popular haha. My band is called "Pray For Sound", and we typically have instrumental based rock tracks with your standard 2 guitars bass drums setup, but also experiment with synths, strings, and pianos in the studio.

[@SnakePool]

a friend of mine was driving Vader around on tour years ago. when they stopped at Trees Dallas, we got together and hung out and talked. Piotr was saying they make more in two shows in south america than they make the entire US leg of the tour.

[@nickluca]

A little off topic, but here's a thought. Back in the monoculture day there were huge bands and artists that didn't even reach the top 10, Led Zeppelin for example, but they were real musicians focused on making music. We can all name every member of that band, but... and here's the point- we did not know anything about those musicians beyond interviews and rumors. I knew who Robert Plant was, but I didn't know about his private life and didn't really think about it, just enjoyed the music. These days artists are posting what thet had for breakfast and their favorite shoe company etc. Young artists post all day with music as peice of a larger portfolio of their talents. Social media has forced artists to "engage" and the music is secondary.

[@nickluca]

@@typingarchetypes yeah sounds like we agree in general. I know way more about Robert Plant TODAY than I did in the 70s. I honestly knew very little about what he was doing outside of records and concerts. Now on social media he posts a fresh picture almost daily. So yeah it's just a different era. Where I differ is I find social media to be a turn off, although I do see your point that most people want to know more about their favorite artist. For me, it has ruined the mystery, but thats just me.

[@jdenino6022]

You can see his English estate in the movie: The Song Remains The Same but it's not like he gave long interviews or was covered in People magazine.

[@danielhutchinson6604]

Frank Zappa recommended the Shaggs for their musical expression. We all dance to a "Different Drum' Talyor Swift is no Linda Rondstadt.

[@JH-pt6ih]

"Monoculture" really isn't a good term because it wasn't a mono-culture. There were plenty of people back in the day who didn't know who Led Zepplin was just as every year more people don't watch the Superbowl (and even more didn't in the past) and most Americans haven't seen a Star Wars movie (and even more so in the past). I also think there was a greater split between genres than they are remembering and the media sources weren't cross referencing everything. I'm not saying there is nothing to what they are talking about in the video, but "monoculture" is not the right term or framing, imo.

[@Kevon420]

Led Zeppelin intentionally didn't release (many) singles intentionally though, much less than they could have. Jimmy Page tried to downplay that as much as possible so people would think of them as an album-centric group. Charting isn't everything but yes it is a decent mark of success, but a lot of artists find other means of getting by.

[@Angelicus-p5p]

I won't go to stadium shows anymore. Disappointing when the music is out of sync with the giant screen because I'm miles away. If I'm miles away I might as well watch KZbin. Give me smaller venues with great bands.

[@ricktheexplorer]

When I would crew shows in stadiums, we did a show for Michael Bolton, and we only used 25% of the stadium, covering the goal side of the stadium. The best shows we worked were at an outside venue that could hold around 10,000 to 14,000 people, which could all sit on a hill, Starwood Amphitheater in Nashville.

[@shoegazer93]

In Britain. It was the death of TOP OF THE POPS in 2004, CD: UK, TFI Friday. These shows were shown on the standard 5 TV channels (BBC One, ITV, Channel 4 etc). Yes TOTP may have been cringe most of the time, but at least it gave people an indication of what was going on. There's NO MOVEMENT AND NO ZEITGEIST these days

[@EdgyNumber1]

Very odd because stadium sound has evolved massively- just look at the new directional speakers they have suspended these days, compare to the floor standing box types back in the day. Sounds like lazy or cheaping out on the engineering and placement.

[@Cmunic8]

@@ricktheexplorerSTARWOOD damn I miss that place ✌️👍🤘

[@tylon2999]

I never have been a fan of large venous whether I'm listening or playing.

[@mar-mj9vb]

Bigger and smaller is a good term. I've heard of Taylor Swift, but I never heard Taylor Swift. Back in the day I would have definitely heard her on the radio whether I wanted to or not.

[@km1366]

Not missing anything

[@jimmycampbell78]

@@km1366 That's my take too

[@ram-4]

The literal global multi-stadium mass hysteria / hypnosis regarding Swift is mind-boggling, insane and interesting at the same time. I can only name ONE Swift song, ”We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together”, which is a good pop song - but from 2012.

[@jimmycampbell78]

She's been promoted heavily in the media as a celebrity/influencer/role model, with a focus more on her persona, gender and politics than any of her music. Perhaps that says it all.

[@SuperNevile]

@@jimmycampbell78 Now she's in this Marilyn Monroe/Joe DiMaggio type relationship, it signals to me some "super influencer" thing is going on.

[@tayloreh]

LiveNation is a huge part of the problem - they make going to shows so damn expensive for people that they don't have the funds to go see smaller acts, especially when tours are 'farewell tours', and you feel such an obligation to see the dinosaurs one last time.

[@gomezgomezian3236]

But the shows have to be so expensive, because there is no money in selling music anymore. We all went for Napster etc, and then streaming, and the artists make 3/5ths of stuff all on the music they record. So their only way to make money is live gigs. The simple reality is that they have to make money somehow. And if we are not willing to pay a decent price to buy the tracks, then we have to pay for it via the live performances.

[@fredoswego]

@@gomezgomezian3236 Yes. Music acts used to tour to sell records. You'd see band X and hopefully you'd start buying up their catalog. Now, nobody buys any music and outside of the top 10 artists on Spotify the rest get almost no play revenue so touring is their entire paycheck.

[@tayloreh]

​@@gomezgomezian3236 the dinosaurs are cashing out by selling the rights off to their music. They're fine, they're just soaking up every last dollar so their families can get a seat on the spaceship to escape the collapse of a liveable Earth.

[@johnphelan4215]

@@gomezgomezian3236 you are exactly right. When I was a kid, an album cost $9.99 and a concert ticket cost $12-15. The point of the concert tour was to hype the album. Now an album costs ... $9.99 and nobody buys the whole thing anyway. How is anyone supposed to build a business around that.

[@darkskinwhite]

​@@gomezgomezian3236true indeed, though live nation is still the bigger problem. they make it twice as expensive at a MINIMUM. as in the box office is half the price the day the tickets go on sale. wait too late & you'll be left with "resale" tickets which are not really resale, they were just withheld by livenation & depending on the show and artist they might be 10× or literally even 100× the price.

[@KyleJon]

Music has become what TV shows are now. No one is watching the same show. So it’s hard to bond with strangers at the bar per se, when you make a reference and they are like ??? Then you are left with the “ You should really check this band/movie/TV show out, which no one ever does. My 2c

[@sreneethomas]

I agree!! I find myself “informing” people of bands/artists when I’m trying to have those good old days conversations about music I heard or liked. Also…I am one of those ppl who absolutely check out the band/artist when someone says that to me! But it’s for this reason…where am I getting my new music information now days? It’s an algorithm or someone saying “you should check this artist/song out”

[@jimkon1479]

It's better to ask "So what are you watching these days" which can cover plenty of ground and show some interest in this new thing you found out about. "Oh you're into sci fi stuff..."

[@KyleJon]

@@jimkon1479 The point is, is we used to watch Seinfeld on Thursday night. The next day, everyone would talk about it at the water cooler. It was a SHARED experience. Or SNL. Notorious for giving us catch phrases we use in daily life. But I’m order for it to work, EVERYONE had to see it. I can do a good Yogi Bear impersonation. But if I’m on a date, and the girl doesn’t know the character, it falls flat. Back in true day, the RECORD COMPANY determined who got to record and release music. So it was a SHARED EXPERIENCE of everybody hearing Hysteria drop, or Appetite for Destruction or Nirvanas album. Now it’s 80,000 new songs to Spotify every day. If Stairway to Heaven was in that 80,000, would anyone notice?

[@better.better]

people still go to bars?

[@vocalead]

Remember that time when you knew if you were gonna like someone because of the music they listened to? That jock who liked that one NSYNC song but didn't know who they were, you knew straight away you were not gonna get along with that dude.

[@joemisek]

Imagine Dragons has ten songs with over a billion plays on Spotify and KZbin... and I can't name a single one of them.

[@tywco]

“Enemy” from the opening credits of Arcane. That’s all I’ve got.

[@larryclemens]

I'm 76yo and substitute teach, occasionally. I can play a couple of Imagine Dragons videos from the movie Spiderman: Into The Spiderverse and every 3rd grader in the room knows the lyrics and sings along to their songs, Believer and Bones. Also, they love Rick Astley.

[@symptomofsouls]

@@tywco People watch Arcane?

[@tywco]

@@symptomofsouls It broke records for Netflix.

[@symptomofsouls]

@@tywco I have literally never met anyone who has watched the show. It's not the only one either. These series/movies that are breaking records in viewership. Yet I could ask 100 different people if they had heard of it and 100 would ask "wtf is Arcane"

[@tatendamhuriro2735]

Technology changed the way we consume music. Back in the day the media distributing music was limited to radios, terrestrial tv and entertainment spots. So everyone was consuming similar content and that created the monoculture. Now people customise their own content they want to consume

[@Demobius]

Back in the day, music started in your living room or garage. Half a dozen of us would get together with instruments and a gallon of Gallo on a Saturday night.

[@FeedbackLoop70]

Correct. My point is that is the "common experience" that enables you to actively (!) digest the input.. and that is what enables individual creativity based on a common reception. So that society can grow as a whole.

[@johnbulger8044]

"Artists are bigger and smaller than they've ever been" - that about sums up the state of popular music nowadays. Thanks guys for this informative and intelligent discussion

[@radiocremebrulee4431]

He should have qualified this by saying that a FAR smaller percentage of "artists are bigger than ever" because of the disproportionate exposure they get at the cost of relegating a larger swathe of artists/bands to obscurity.

[@matsumoku1]

@@radiocremebrulee4431 100%

[@miguelbarahona6636]

Copy, paste and autotune, ruined music.

[@sampowellmusic]

Here’s the problem with potential Super Bowl halftime performers. It’s not a concert anymore it’s an event. The choreography the props the lighting the effects you can’t just get up there and be a great band and play a bunch of songs. So that narrows down the field tremendously.

[@GreedyLittleFokker]

And hardly anyone is even playing or singing because The Producers (TM) don't want to risk a shorted microphone or a guitar going out of tune because a string broke. So then you immediately disqualify any artist who refuses to do a pantomime performance.

[@cjdubuisson]

Truth

[@nikodraganic]

I would say that this widens the list of possible SB HT performers, not shortens it.

[@dstarks360]

So what you get is Ice Capades. Funny, though, that the greatest halftime show ever...was a live band singing and playing - Prince. Real talent never goes out of style...

[@lill3lars]

@@nikodraganicagree. Is there any reason a non English singing artist could not entertain? Could say BTS do it? Say what you will about the music but they produce amazing shows and choreography

[@sumiben5211]

She was having a concert in a stadium 20 minutes walk from my home and I had no idea who was singing over there 😂. But now I know her for all the fuss.

[@peterdoe2617]

Yep. I do know her by her name. But I couldn't tell u any song she ever sang.

[@michaelscerbo35]

“This stratification where people are getting deeper and deeper into the smaller silos.” Speaks volumes to the ability to turn on only music you like because you don’t have to communicate w/ anyone when you hide behind the phone or computer. This is why dating culture, work culture, music culture, film culture, and life perspective is so different than even 10 years ago. Amazing conversations Rick!

[@bradleystereoguitaramplifi9616]

I Think the isolation started when we transitioned from the boom box to the walkman.

[@notbraindead7298]

@@bradleystereoguitaramplifi9616 More people would agree if they knew what those things were!😂😂😂

[@2confrontational]

@@notbraindead7298I can agree, that was some dedication and additional motivation on the listener's part - it felt amazing to have a device that brought music with you - it changed the whole world around me growing up to the music of my true liking played directly into my ears as I took a walk downtown... instant soundtrack. I am sure it's still similar to these days, maybe the difference being that making your own mixtape required a little more effort and your had more limited time available on the tapes, which made us all choose carefully what tracks to physically bring with us... kinda like a videogame like Resident Evil or the earlier RPGs on 16bit, where you had limited space for the items you could bring around... There is something to the limited physical storage we had available at the time, and the asbolute infinite space that the cloud / streaming technology has rendered available. Wildly different times that's for sure!

[@macdisciple]

@@notbraindead7298yeah. I would not recognize a Taylor Swift Song, or Adele, or Beyoncé. I am able to intentionally stay in my niche and I’m really good with that.

[@CraigABuchanan]

Try “Hey Siri, what song is this?”

[@dalewikfors9194]

One of my favorite things as being a dad was seeing my kids coming to me excited about sharing an old song like Toto or Neil Young asking me if I ever heard this song...then there were stories.

[@rumblehat4357]

My college age kid recently went to see Journey/Toto in concert.

[@derkeheath5172]

My teen daughter (who at the time was lstening to stuff like Korn, Rob Zombie, and Limp Bizkit) suddenly one day blurted out that she LOVED Steve Miller Band, and I was utterly floored. I immediately went to my CD collection to share and told her about how he was a regular in my hometown as a kid. (He barely tours at all anymore, and that bummed her out royally.)

[@matthewdennis1739]

I grew up listening to what my parents liked. Mom like rock, so I listened to AC/DC, Led Zepplin, Black Sabbath, Rush, REO Speedwagon, etc. My dad liked country so I listened to George Straight, Randy Travis, John Anderson, Clint Black, Brooks and Dunn, John Denver, etc. And when I listened to pop radio on the school bus I was drawn toward bands like Matchbox Twenty, Third Eye Blind, Hootie and the Blowfish. Then it was Linkin Park and Metallica and Iron Maiden. Over the years I've loved everything from Social Distortion and Bad Religion to Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen, to Nirvana and Alice and Chains, to The Gaslight, Anthem, Rise Against, Josh Ritter, Jason Isbell and the 400 Unit, Charley Crockett, Sierra Ferrell and Greta Van Fleet. Just love music that moves you man, you don't need boundaries. I've known the classics from a young age and love them and new music both.

[@finnmccool1591]

I'm a Gen Xer and not a huge Steve Miller fan, but I caught him in concert before Covid and he was fantastic. I had forgotten just how many songs he's written that were hits.

[@matthewdennis1739]

I don't know why people feel it has to be one or the other.

[@championthewonderhorse9733]

A big difference is that in the 80s, for instance, bands played instruments and actually sang songs. That is exhausting and requires time out. Now far fewer stars play in a band and the stadium experience is full of audio assistance, pyrotechnics and entertainment that is much less pressure on the voices of the stars.

[@kumada84]

That's an excellent point

[@Walamonga1313]

I thought they'd bring this up. Especially considering super bowls are prerecorded, so not really a live show. Same can apply to concerts, you can just lip synch and call it a day. So you can do a bunch of shows without wearing your voice/body out

[@dutyfreeadventures5924]

​@@Walamonga1313 I didn't know it was pre-recorded?

[@dcarbs2979]

They still do it. The instruments have chnaged! They also do even more: many control their own visuals, samples on the fly. A live show is much more involved now.

[@WIMPY86]

I often find a band name with a decent song... But later discover it's just one guy in his mom's basement on ProTools. No tour coming LOL

[@stevehatcher7700]

This is not just music. The breaking down into smaller and smaller, isolated, silos. It's across the spectrum of culture, and politics, and the economy. Siloed cultures, within the culture, is the new culture. Interconnectivity, at the scale of the internet, creates forms of dis-connectivity, which, in turn, as tipping point thresholds are met, create more interconnectivity. The pendulum swings faster and faster.

[@izzytoons]

Divide and conquer.

[@radiocremebrulee4431]

I think recommendation engines do add value - but when they become the ONLY source of media discovery, that is when the problem arises.

[@danhartwigPerch]

Yup,W/Everything.

[@sseltrek1a2b]

amazing how much more we're "connected" to everyone, while simultaneously being more isolated from each other...

[@beingsshepherd]

@@sseltrek1a2b "We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost…" ~ Charlie Chaplin, _The Great Dictator (1940)_

[@ralelunar]

I love how Rich takes the piss out of Rick 😂 Only very good old friends can do that to each other

[@robr2303]

Very true

[@DirkJacobsz]

Ye - like I am a huge fan of the show - I watch every 20th episode - pissed myself laughing so hard..

[@christiangibbs391]

Billy Gould Interview 😎✌️🙏

[@thewaldfe9763]

He has some really interesting points - would love to hear more conversations with him!

[@ChiIeboy]

Society calls it _being rude._

[@darkskinwhite]

The saddest part is exactly that, no one shares music or music culture. I was only born in the 90s but I remember running to my friends to talk about the new this or that, I remember even after pirating there was still shared experiences of "burn this CD for me" or "I gotta play you this". Even for the kids today those things are done. Its not only "everyone listens to their own music" but they don't even bother trying to find people who like their music or put their friends onto it, the only sharing of music "culture" happens on the internet which I'm sorry but just is not a real replacement.

[@charlesthornton6713]

When Rich noted the statistic about ten Imagine Dragons songs garnering a billion plays each on Spotify, my question was "how many of those plays came from people who deliberately looked up those songs and chose to play them, and how many of those plays came from Spotify randomly selecting songs for the listener's queue on their behalf?" I ask because I wonder whether awareness of an artist's music actually translates to popularity of said artist.

[@robbielux8353]

I agree and also if add how many actual fans of the group are streaming the song over and over

[@jesseredden7123]

Even it were only half of a billion it’s still crazy.

[@gregwillert-po6nq]

I was born in 65. Still love all the music I grew up with. It helped I had older brothers so I had many albums to choose from and many radio stations to listen to. But sometime in the 2000's radio stations just started to be stale. Now I listen to a local independent station that plays local artists and artists I would never hear on the regular stations around me

[@generationjones-le8ge]

Radio stations began to be stale with the Telecommunications act of 1997. Now that only a couple corporations own all the stations, everything sounds the same, and there's very little "local" flavor. The economic crisis of 2008 was the final nail in the coffin when stations across the USA fired most of their on air talent.

[@bcj842]

Yep. My local community station in Kansas City has always got something interesting playing in a number of genres and flavors. The politics and talk radio on that particular station is all trash, but their DJs consistently bring fresh music and insight into the music they're playing. Being KC, it's predominately focused on Jazz and Blues, but there's tremendous variety. Any other stations in the area pale in comparison.

[@nonsensicalrants1703]

I need to look into those local radio stations playing local artists How do I even find then though?

[@bcj842]

@@nonsensicalrants1703 You just have to turn the dial on your radio really slowly until you hear something that doesn’t sound like anything else you’ve been hearing. That’s kind of how I found my local stations anyway…

[@gregwillert-po6nq]

@@nonsensicalrants1703 The local station by me is called "The Avenue" 91.1 out of Appleton Wisconsin

[@TheQuantumWave]

I feel the same way about movies. I miss the blockbuster era of the 80's and 90's when a movie was a summer long event with commercials and fast-food tie ins and one or more songs in heavy rotation for two months or so. Movies now are one-time experiences. I miss that magic of experiencing the movie all summer long. The internet has caused an exponential explosion of pop culture such that it is impossible to experience it all or little pieces of it for long periods of time. Back to music, I see a lot of people my age act superior when a younger person doesn't know who Elvis, The Monkees, or George Jones are, but they have 1000 times (10,000 times) more music to dig through than we did. Us older folks had time to explore our pop culture plus the pop culture of the previous several decades. Kids these days don't have the time to do that.

[@HeathsHarleyQuinn]

I hardly know something's out before it's no longer in the theater these days. No wonder there are so many flops.

[@TheQuantumWave]

@@HeathsHarleyQuinn That's a huge issue too. I've already missed two theatrical releases I wanted to see in the theater this year because of that.

[@chriscampbell9191]

It's all become little more than internet content anymore. That's part of the problem.

[@_unknown_guy]

There is no movie stars either anymore. Who are the A-listers of today? Franchise stars at most. Video killed the radio star... internet killed the start altogether.

[@chriscampbell9191]

@@_unknown_guy Stars have been gradually replaced by influencers. The entire structure and business model of all media has changed.

[@James-wj8eq]

As a musician myself who plays local bars, i got no problem with megastar artists playing stadiums. Whatever floats your boat, theres always an audience out there no worries! I'm pretty sure Rick Beato, Taylor or any other major artist for that matter aint losin' sleep over your opinions.

[@gregkieliszewski5886]

Rick Beato is a major artist? Good one.

[@KevinCowden-ow5to]

I predict Rick Beato hits 5 million subs by the end of this year. He's reached a tipping point where it becomes exponential in growth. Rick created his own niche. There's literally nobody who can do what Rick does. Rick is the 'Bill Nye The Science Guy' of music.

[@toxiclevel8790]

Bill Nye isn’t a scientist.

[@KevinCowden-ow5to]

@@tinyPaleBlueDot all I'm saying is that dude is going to be a household name. Don't get your panties all twisted.

[@KevinCowden-ow5to]

@@tinyPaleBlueDot people like you really have nothing to say

[@Madkid73]

@@KevinCowden-ow5toI dunno. Maybe his missus/sister/daughter/niece/ wasn’t putting out tonight

[@notbraindead7298]

It is very rare for someone to have the level of talent, intelligence, and experience in so many musical fields. Producer, director, engineer, performer, College level professor. That’s why nobody can do what Rick does.

[@Zundfolge]

This really goes beyond music, movies and TV. The death of the monoculture is really the end of a cohesive, high trust society and sadly is a harbinger of a lot of really bad things to come.

[@Shoey77100]

true

[@shiptj01]

Agreed.

[@danielhutchinson6604]

The ability of Consumers to buy the music, while instant gratification is possible through the Interweb, the money to buy it is not there. The Investors who financed the Fame are backing the Products that Mashville and Hollywood provide.

[@Dancestar1981]

Totally true

[@thenaturalmidsouth9536]

Have to largely agree. It's why, for instance, there are far more flat-earth believers now than 30, 50, 70 years ago.

[@vagabond197979]

I have discovered all kinds of new artists because of KZbin. It's not from listening to music, but listening to people TALK about music.

[@matthewdennis1739]

Absolutely.

[@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240]

I like to follow music promoters and find music from there.

[@matthewdennis1739]

@@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240 That's one. Also if you seek out what other music lovers are listening to and just ask them, a lot of the time they'll share some great stuff with you. Most people just aren't into that.

[@theunwantedcritic]

Man! Ricks interviews are getting better and better. Pat Metheny, George Benson . Michael McDonald,Sting,Seal, Peter Frampton, Andy, Summers, Stewart Copeland, Brian May and so many others I can’t name right now. Are despite all the thousands of videos about technique and theory this is the most inspirational educational music channel on KZbin.

[@mkhanman12345]

Most educational channel in the world

[@austinedeclan10]

The part that everyone misses is that it used to cost thousands of dollars to record one song and if you wanted a quality record, you had to pay for studio time, session musicians, a mix engineer, a mastering engineer etc or be among a select few very talented or very well connected acts that get signed. These days, anyone with a good enough laptop can make an acceptable or at least passable record by following a couple of tutorials. We've had music made by some prodigious kids in their bedrooms become massive hits and get nominated for prestigious awards. While this has unshackled great musicians who the mainstream record labels would've never looked twice at, it has also flooded the music market with a lot of mediocre music that is neither horrible nor anything to write home about driving down the value of each individual piece of music. The more music we create, the less valuable each individual piece of music becomes.

[@Ms-K-w2x]

I always thought so. Like how the more cars there are, the more exhaust gases emitted to the air. The more clothes, shoes, jewelry, phones etc are produced, the more of them aren't sold and end up in landfills.

[@xennialmusic]

Nice points. I do feel like the biggest downside to instantaneous distribution over the internet and technology advances that make music production more accessible is that it degrades the quality and floods the market with a lot of crap that you have to listen through to pick out the really good stuff.

[@larrycrane4119]

You heard "Rosanna" everywhere back then because the labels paid intermediaries to get songs like that on the radio.

[@automachinehead]

bingo~~~

[@mattpotter8725]

I totally agree, but I do still feel there are gatekeepers to what gets promoted, even if it's getting things out and bigged up on social media, on Tik Tok. The gatekeepers though has probably changed with what gets fed to people on streaming platforms just feeding you more of the same is narrowing music down to get similar songs that Rick has shown on his videos on the Top 10 songs on various streaming platforms. It wasn't ideal before with the paid promotion but I feel rescued labels are much more risk averse now and everything being suggested to you by algorithm now is just killing music imo.

[@dino0228]

I didn’t think Rosanna was worthy of all the airplay it got. It was good song, but I didn’t see its absolute, above-the-rest greatness. To me, it was bland. Anyway, those radios were probably all tuned to same 2 or channels. Today, the playlists are infinite and people have their earbuds in, so we won’t get the same phenomenon.

[@dank.6942]

Rosanna is as bad as any pop song ever. Africa is conversely, equally amazing.

[@DavidScott-hi4fz]

@@dino0228 Yep agree. I mean, I love Toto and I bless the rains and all that, but I don't know if Rosanna was really requested as much as it was just put out at at you on the radio, like an episode of Threes Company or something. It was just on.

[@nickv.7181]

So glad David Draiman could come share his wealth of knowledge with us today.

[@fernandezvonschwephausen1979]

I thought it was Scott Ian....

[@metetural9140]

​@@fernandezvonschwephausen1979nah his chin hair isn't impressive enough to be Scott

[@LauraKnotek]

Who's that?

[@deltab9768]

@@LauraKnoteknot sure if that’s an inside joke but Draiman is the singer from Disturbed

[@DrScott666]

​@@fernandezvonschwephausen1979 Maybe Scott Ian 30 years ago 🤷‍♂️

[@Flashback2020]

The phenomena you are describing isn't limited to entertainment. It permeates our world today in all aspects of our lives. We have become balkanized as a country; I'm speaking of America but I suspect there are other countries experiencing something similar.

[@vocalead]

Remember that time when you knew if you were gonna like someone because of the music they listened to?

[@pablovirus]

It still applies like 95% of the time...?

[@johnny.V03]

As someone who’s a fellow GenZer if I looked for friends based on music alone I wouldn’t have a lot of them.

[@fkcoolers2669]

I still find taste in music, movies, television, and a few other things to be a pretty accurate gauge for me but social media and streaming platforms have diluted it a bit. And it's not like these are ultimately deciding factors but they help separate signal from noise.

[@JohnLnyc]

Great guest. I am a bit older than Rick. Notice how “radio” comes up? I was listening to someone, I forget, on Tidal. After the artist I was listening to was finished, before I could change to another favorite artist, the AI or whatever, at Tidal played a “suggested” artist. I sat up and wondered what I was listening to. Loved it. The artist was someone called “Mitski” never heard of her. I ended up play a few of her many albums. A few? Liked the music so much I discovered she is just starting a world tour. Looked for tickets…never got out of my dang chair! Appearing in NYC, great venue, the Beacon Theater. For four nights! Who other than the Allman Brothers does four nights at this great venue? Ok great, over to Ticket Master. NY four nights at the Beacon theater plus two nights in Brooklyn…SOLD OUT. Looked at some of the other venues she was playing…around the world! Yup. Sold out. I was stunned. I realized I have spent too much time listening to re masters of Jethro Tull and lamenting the demise of my faves from the sixties and seventies and decrying the weird stuff on POP these days. There’s some amazing stuff out there. Streaming, opens the world up and can open our ears to all of it. I have found some great music from Germany and the Netherlands. And a huge amount of music from the past I somehow missed. The Jayhawks catalog is large and still growing! Larkin Poe are just wonderful. Focusing on the pop charts and griping about hip hop and lamenting the fading heroes of hard rock… Don’t waste the time. Open your ears. Get your IPad out and start looking around. Things aren’t so bad.

[@ArthurSanford3706]

You miss out on a lot of great music by being a music snob

[@bcj842]

I notice a lot of that reminiscent whining when talking with a lot of the older guys. I totally get where they're coming from, though, because I admire and enjoy all the good old stuff as much if not more than they do.... But there's so, so much great new music out there because the barrier to entry for passable-quality music production is so low. The increase of overall outflow does output a lot of garbage, but at the same time so many goodies and gems come flying out too. It only looks bad because the corporate suits are marketing and pushing some of the most lackluster, uninspired junk to the top. There's really good stuff just below the surface and you don't have to do all that much digging.

[@ArthurSanford3706]

@bcj842 Not to mention their was a lot of junk in the 60s-90s but since it didn't have staying power no one remembers it

[@bcj842]

@@ArthurSanford3706 True.

[@JohnLnyc]

@@ArthurSanford3706 that’s tru of every era in music,

[@kimjohnson8471]

The music was so ubiquitous, that you find yourself singing or humming a song you absolutely hated back in the day ❤

[@jimmcdougall9973]

I think what has exacerbated the issue in my country, is the closure of all of the music stores (record, tape, CD). Many people are still “touch and feel”, turn it over in your hands, read the cover and get excited about it. Flip through the selection to see what’s available and new. I love rock and 80’s metal, but I am left to KZbin algorithms to suggest groups to me. One can’t search/google for a band you don’t know about. My iTunes collection consists of bands for who I already own the CD’s. So I have paid twice for the same albums. With the exception of Extreme 8.

[@sharpvidtube]

Some kept going in the UK, now more are opening. I still like looking through CD's. They were selling as new for £1 too, when I used to pay at least £10.

[@InventorZahran]

The internet is a great resource when you know what you're looking for, or if you want to find things that are similar or related to what you already know. But it's less useful for discovering anything totally new to you, completely outside of anything you were familiar with. We don't know what we don't know, and there's probably a huge amount of music we might enjoy that we just aren't aware of. Music stores used to bridge that gap, but now they're unfortunately becoming uncommon...

[@lesliedaubert1411]

I still listen to my cds.

[@lance_374]

you could rip your cds into itunes so you don't buy them twice. I think if you pay for the itunes match subscription once, it will put all of your cds into your itunes purchases and they might stay there even when you cancel (i could be wrong, i just saw this somewhere on the internet). this should not be confused with apple music, they are different subscriptions.

[@Dancestar1981]

So true

[@alangreenway6695]

Some of it comes to context. Here in the UK we have Glastonbury festival that has in the past been about bands or artists with real instruments- guitars, drums, bass, piano, horns. They don’t have to be rock, but there is a need for ‘live music’ where people can sing along to the hits with a real band. Within the past 5 years there has been an attempt to introduce Rap acts, Pop Divas and teen bands that perform to a backing track with dancers behind and it’s always fallen flat. And I think it’s just not the sort of music that works in the context of a festival where people are standing in a foot of mud and rain.

[@marshac1479]

Probably true in part for main stage acts. However both Stormzy and Beyonce killed it when they performed. There are loads of great bands to see on the other stages though.

[@misemefein100]

​@@marshac1479killed it as in killed the festival.... they're both rubbish

[@ivorharden]

​@marshac1479 that was the end. Artists like that depend on a cd with backing tracks and a good light show. A good rock band doesn't have to depend on a light show because of the energy when they play. Watch rock bands in the 70s and 80s playing in stadiums/festivals, you'll get what I mean.

[@marshac1479]

@@ivorharden I don't have to as I grew up in the 70s and 80s.

[@ivorharden]

@@marshac1479 oh good, so you understand.

[@Goddybag4Lee]

The Monoculture dying started when Jean-Michel Jarre and Kraftwerk started doing music without lyrics or in German/French. We Europeans usually got songs translated in the 1950-1960 into our mother tongue so huge amounts of songs known in English is known to us in our native language Anni-Frid Lyngstad did What Now My Love in Swedish. Now we fast forward and Rammstein is huge in the world singing in German. We have had an almost No 1 hit on the Billboard list in Finnish language with Käärijä singing Cha Cha Cha. We see the "KZbinr react to ........" era where songs in other languages are a huge part of that field. The way a 20 or something old song from Herbert Grönemeyer (he who played Leutnat Werner in Das Boot) goes viral in those channels (his song is called Der Weg about his wife dying of cancer) is wonderful to see. And the way that people start to listen to music in other languages and really learning those languages are wonderful. Singing in English and doing lyrics in that language when it's not your native language is hard. Grönemeyer tried that, but still his songs are better in German. And then we have the big Spanish wave in the 1990-2000 still doing it big. I know people learning languages just after hearing favorite songs in the Eurovision Song Contest. And this is wonderful. When I was a teenager in the 1990s finding music in other languages to aid you in learning that language was super hard. Now we have Spotify and KZbin without barriers. Wohoo!

[@sandralison7584]

Agreed awesome

[@thilomuller2497]

So it´s all Jean-Michel Jarres and Kraftwerks fault? lol Why should music without lyrics not be considered music? Did you ever learn how to play an instrument? There were also no lyrics with Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, so I guess you just have no idea of music, that´s why you listen to Grönemeyer! lol

[@DemskePaul2017]

Another very important variable is that bands are not touring to as many cities, they are doing long residencies in one city and having the fans come to THEM.

[@kumada84]

Exactly. He works for Live Nation so he's certainly not going to point that out.

[@AurumEtAes]

@demskapaul2017 that’s a very interesting point. I live in the UK and international artists often to just play London or London and one other city in the British Isles. So fans have to travel to see them. I didn’t know that American artists were increasingly requiring their fans travel to see them when on tour in the US

[@doraking2823]

Only in America - I’m in Australia and there are no residences

[@Cradien]

​@@doraking2823 Not America only, I had to travel down to London a few years to see a band whose UK tour was three nights in a row in the same venue in London

[@astrogatorjones]

Suggestion…. There is this band called “The Warning.” They have been a band since they were kids. Now grown up. Partly through circumstances of being 3 sisters from Mexico and partly from intentionality they bypassed the normal path to a record company deal and all that. They actually turned down deals. They were successfully independent now signed with Lava. Hard rock. The point might be to talk about how they did it using the modern internet/social media. They are young (although they’ve been a working band for 10 years) and just delightful people. They speak perfect English. I’m sure they’d be happy to talk. They grew up on the internet and they are the definition of a rabbit hole.

[@curtvona4891]

The Warning rocks!

[@desdinovvilla-lobos]

If you are suggesting that Rick interview the members of The Warning, then I wholeheartedly second this motion. Rick's interview with Mohini Dey was fabulous, and I would love to hear more interviews with young/breaking-out artists like The Warning.

[@astrogatorjones]

@@desdinovvilla-lobos I think it’s more interesting than that. No doubt they had help. But if you look at what they’ve done over the years, seemly like everything they do, they’ve managed to execute perfectly. Music, social media, the business of being an independent band, touring, music video production, and making friends in high places, it has to have been largely intentional. I think that is a story others should hear.

[@JohnPaulBakshoian]

Listened to AM radio as a kid. On one station I would hear Rock (a multitude), Pop (Sugar Sugar), Country (Cash, Camble), Classical (Beethoven), Novelty (Guitarzan) and more variety. Though there were specialized AM stations for Christian Radio or Country, the city stations I listened to had a somewhat diverse background. When FM came about, with its better fidelity and catering to a more sophisticated audience, I switched over to FM rock. But I still knew about some of the other music going on because you could hear it on other people's radio.

[@theodoretedteddy]

At times it seems that an artist’s persona now supersedes their art. Older generations may listen with their ears, while some younger generations prefer to listen with their eyes.

[@XCodeHelpHub]

Excellent!

[@paulm749]

OTOH, artists like Mick Jagger have been working a consciously created and carefully maintained persona for more than a half century. The music was good too, but would the Stones have lasted as long as they have with an equally talented but less-charismatic front man? Lots of other examples too - Freddie Mercury, Michael Jackson, and there was that one guy with the odd name... "Elvis" I think it was.

[@pjuliano9000]

Your argument makes no sense because these artist songs are still popular and younger generations have no fucking idea what they look like

[@WayneKitching]

We hardly need to use our ears How music changes through the years

[@halifaxmayor]

Yeah, agreed

[@AntonioSanchez-yl9wj]

A new phenomena: may half people who knows who Taylor Swift is haven’t hear or mane any song. In the past you hear the song first and the artist name was linked to the song later.

[@miguelbarahona6636]

I can tell the same about Cold Play, Limp Bizkit, Korn, Dua Lipa, Slipknot, Primus, Kathy Perry, Ed Sheeran, John Mayer, Animals as Leaders, Carnivool... I´ve tried, I swear, but I can´t remember their music, it doesn´t stick. They are like listening the rain fall.

[@IGNACY-fp8zo]

​@@miguelbarahona6636Primus is so different than anything else that I doubt you can't recognize them when they play, even if you don't like them, which is fine

[@miguelbarahona6636]

@@IGNACY-fp8zo I've heard Primus, and I probably would recognize them instantly, but I don't like them. Sorry.

[@FeedbackLoop70]

This describes exactly how it is in my case :-)

[@PainInTheS]

Correct.....sometimes you came in when a song was playing, loved it and you just hoped the dj would say the artist's name when the song ended......often they didn't because they announced it before playing. I discovered Prince in that manner.....sitting in the car with my dad, stopped at a traffic light and I said turn the sound up please, I HAVE to know who this is.....Prince - When doves cry. Week later I bought the album, went to the movie, saw him 3 times in the 80's and got my musical hero.

[@lrvogt1257]

Of course my wife and I knew who Taylor Swift was but didn't know her music. We had always followed music when we were younger but we're out of touch now. So, we decided we needed to catch up on some of the current pop stars. We watched the Reputation concert and it was a terrific show and now my wife plays her music constantly.

[@77Matt]

The way Rich is talking to either/and/or the camera or/either/and/with/to Rick is fascinating.

[@riteasrain]

I find it quite annoying, very robotic. I'm pretty sure the way to talk to someone is to look at them.

[@Ensorcle]

I had the same thought. As someone who is on (web)camera quite a bit, it is a practiced skill to talk direct to camera as if the camera were a person in the room. Also: this is not the time for that skill. Look at the interviewer lol.

[@sirjoseph68]

Remember that the ability to track music listening is a relatively new technology. Prior to that, they could only track sales and plays that were reported. I use to record songs off the radio with my boombox and play them over and over hundreds of times. Not to mention that the ability to listen to any song at any time is also relatively new. It's so hard to compare things from different eras, when the "rules" are constantly evolving. Popular longevity is the best measuring stick. What music of today will still be popular 20, 30, 40, etc. years from now.

[@Veaseify]

'Popular longevity is the best measuring stick. What music of today will still be popular 20, 30, 40, etc. years from now.' Popular with who though? The teenage girls that grew up with Taylor Swift will stick with her throughout their lives, just like old folks like me still listen to Deep Purple and Black Sabbath but neither of us will ever listen to a note of the other....

[@ryanhopkins5239]

Don't make assumptions about who will listen to what. I have some taylor swift I like and I like black sabbath and deep purple. People aren't limited to one thing

[@NoName-sr6fj]

​@@Veaseifyprobably taylor swift's listeners will be constant but they will die sooner or later. The question here is, will her songs be accomodated by the next generation? Popular longevity is also mean by even the artist is no longer in existence, his or her music is still listened and accomodated by the next generation. For example, classical music, there are youngers still in love with this genre even the pieces were compose centuries ago.

[@matthewdennis1739]

Music is completely subjective though. There's a lot of music that has "popular longevity" that I think is utter garbage. What does a song being popular for a long time really mean in the grand scheme of things? What are we even trying to compare?

[@tommytorres]

My daughter is a big Mitski fan at age 11. I took her to a show down here in Miami and was blown away by the artistry and the beautiful melodies. Mostly no one knows who Mitski is. I love how good music is now the "alternative" to the popular music. You are a rebel if you like good melodies and deeper lyrics.

[@irissupercoolsy]

She's number 92 on spotify tho. She's already a fairly big artist.

[@strawberrysolar9086]

bro most young people know mitski.

[@rine4194]

mitski is popular now because her songs have gone viral on tiktok

[@Gjungling]

Maybe I'm getting old... But there was a vibe to decades, musically. The 70s had it's vibe, as did the 80s and the 90s. When I look back to the 2000s and the 2010s... I get no vibe... there's no definition to it I can feel anymore. Am I the only one?

[@omelasbaby]

idk... as someone who grew up in the 2000s and 2010s, there's definitely a musical vibe to those eras imo.

[@symptomofsouls]

@@omelasbaby Yeah there's a vibe alright... It's a terrible vibe

[@2020theGuitarPlayingRapper]

early 2000's has a vibe, 2000's as a whole is SLOWLY emerging. 2010's is far more subtle

[@drewm.2790]

I disagree. 2000s music definitely had a distinct vibe and was actually pretty diverse musically. We had Britney Spears, Beyonce and Lady Gaga with pop/dance club bangers; Evanescence, Paramore, Greenday and Linkin Park with rock/metal/emo hits; Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige, Usher and Neyo with passionate r&b ballads and T-Pain, Snoop Dogg, Outkast, Akon and Jay Z with cool hip-hop jams. I still vividly remember how these different genres were all massively popular everywhere

[@Victorcolongarcia]

@@th5841mmmmm in the mainstream? There are 2 genres.. its not more diverse. And number 1 stay like 10 weeks because the algorhythm only supports success. I dont like current mainstream music at all. Especially in the usa 😂 and spain 😂 omggg people have no taste

[@tingkagol]

I'm unconvinced of his analogy. Artists play shows to earn a living comparable to a rockstar in the 80s. I've seen many legacy acts reach far-flung parts of the world when back in the day, you'd be lucky if they get to tour your non-first world non-english country. No one wants to tour South East Asia in the 90s because they don't monetarily have to. This can't be said today. They have to do it to earn their much deserved money. And it's exactly why shows are so expensive because it has become the artists' main source of income. Back in the day, you could get a million dollar record deal, never have to tour, and be fine with it.

[@roostfezza7563]

Right no mention of that. Many artists are touring as its the only way they can make money. Small album sales and miniscule streaming incomes. I recall a band on the radio being interviewed, about five years ago, saying they sold small amounts of records, then turn up to play at a venue, packed, and were amazed how everyone in the audience sang along and knew the words!

[@tingkagol]

@@roostfezza7563 Right. It's not that there's more demand for concerts today. If you have a hit record then and now, demand for concerts is a given anywhere in the world. The difference is artists like Michael Jackson don't need to do tours and Taylor Swift has to. Just because Michael Jackson did fewer tours doesn't mean there was less demand.

[@rlgroshans]

This explains so much that I wasn't getting. I watch a few reaction videos on KZbin. Often it is folks that predominantly listen to HipHop and I am floored they have never heard of a particular song or a particular artist....When I know that song had been around for decades. That artist is, or at least was, world famous. It always floored me. How do they not know this song? How do they, at least, not have a remote familiarization with a certain song. This interview explains so much.

[@gregkieliszewski5886]

Do you know a lot of figures...actors, musicians, politicians, athletes, world leaders who were around 20 years before you were born other than the super famous ones? Probably not. Most people don't care because they live in their present.

[@rotaxtwin]

Wow. Thanks for stopping by, Rich. That was the densest, most concentrated 15 minutes of take on how the music biz has changed. This was the opposite of filler, BS and wordiness, it's so good im gonna have to watch it again to soak it all up. Most refreshing.

[@eddiereece5050]

Think of VH1's.......I LOVE THE 80s, I LOVE THE 90s, and they did a 70's version. At least there were plenty of cultural touchstones in movies, and tv and music. Now, maybe only sports is a monoculture event. I don't know if this current or next generations will have enough commonality for a shared, life experience. Because of ALGORITHMS. Only the APP of TikTok is MONO-CULTURE, but not the experience of it. Saying that, I FREAKING LOVED THE 80s, and 90s. Respect for your channel Rick. MASSIVE, respect.

[@metjovi]

What do you mean by saying TikTok is sort of monoculture? People using that app may be seeing the same videos, but they watch many more the same day forgetting every one of them by the time they go to bed. They even may not have the time to talk about them since new videos are being uploaded everyday. Back then, people watched a TV show or a movie and were able to talk about it the whole week if not the whole month. Now so many things are happening at the same time I doubt people actually appreciate what they consume. Each cellphone is a different world.

[@blahyoubleep]

Rick this discussion is fantastic and can be extrapolated to all forms of creative media. The algorithms have connected, divided, organized, and compartmentalized all of us!

[@custum18]

As an old millennial Im so glad I experienced the before times in the 80s and 90s.

[@mistermousterian]

As a boomer, I could say the same about the 60s and 70s. Best show ever-- Who's Next tour with about 3000 fans in Boston.

[@mattshaheen5333]

​@mistermousterian that must have been amazing. IMO The Who is the greatest band ever. I wish I was around to see their shows back then.

[@NPCONSULTING247-jy3pz]

@@mistermousterian Fusion was the ultimate experimental suprise at every concert how Jazz can sound elseways

[@fixedgear37]

as an old millennial you were 7 in 1990

[@arthurengelbert788]

Same 😢😊

[@zapveresepa1]

Rick's videos really explain a lot to us, and confirm many of our suspicions about the music business.

[@marcmarc1967]

Journey played four straight nights in Worcester Massachusetts, 1983. This came after 3 straight nights in Hartford Connecticut. So they did 7 straight nights in that run. Oh, to be young.

[@ResistTheNonsense]

In the seventies when we were hearing the mainstream music (as part of "mono-culture") we still were not necessarily locked into that. When music became more and more a part of what I wanted in my life I began to look outside of mainstream offerings. I would test albums to check out lesser know artists. I would go to a show to see what was up with a new band. Start tuning into a new radio station with a different angle on music. Whatever. The hunger for more just made me push past what the mono-culture offering had. I still do that now. If all you do is follow the feeds that pop up you have to know you are going to miss a lot of great stuff. You have to look outside of feeds and mainstream offerings or the customized offerings the algorithms send to you. There is no end to how amazed I am regularly in surfing through music channels and finding some incredibly talented artist doing something very cool.

[@brostoevsky22]

Some of my favorite bands are pretty new and relatively unheard of. Rolling Blackouts Coastal Fever, SLIFT and Disq. These bands all played on KEXP's KZbin channel.

[@matthewdennis1739]

Absolutely, and there are people who are still passionate about music and will share that music with you. My favorite band/artist ever The Gaslight Anthem/Brian Fallon, I found because a friend recommended them. Then off of that I found Dave Hause and the Menzingers, Chris Wollard and the Ship Thieves, Chuck Ragan, Tim Hause, etc. One of my other favorite artists of all-time, Josh Ritter, I stumbled upon on Limewire completely by accident and just happened to give it a go and completely was floored. It was one of the happiest accidents of my life. And then he led me to Iron and Wine, Gregory Allen Isakov, Jason Isbell, etc. If you love music finding it is easy.

[@EricFraga]

I never, ever, listened to one single song from this Taylor Swift. I've seen pictures of her while browsing, but absolutely don't know even the sound of her voice. Music today is not bigger, its compartmented.

[@drewm.2790]

Monoculture fading away into oblivion is so sad honestly. I’m very young compared to a lot of y’all here but growing up in the early 2000s and up to my teenage years in the 2010s, monoculture was still there globally. Today, a lot of the popular songs don’t have the same reach in the general public

[@Raptorman0909]

Act's ARE bigger today not because music is bigger today but because the number of acts that break through are far fewer. Also, acts that are mostly driven by serious music tend to be ignored over acts that present well on a big stage. This is particularly true in an era where the majority of the money made by artists that make serious money is from preforming in live shows versus album sales, given file sharing/ripping. Any act with serious musicians that might have made a good or even great living in the 70's would be largely unknown today as the flashier acts drown them out for mindshare.

[@radiocremebrulee4431]

THIS is the comment of consequence. The reason far fewer acts break through is because FAR fewer acts are given any mainstream exposure. This is what happens when we have irresponsible gatekeepers (that enjoy immense opinion-shaping power) with not even a shred of a curatorial ethic.

[@mistermousterian]

Love how Rick lets his guests talk.

[@kumada84]

In this particular instance he really didn't have much of a choice 👀🤣

[@lewest7317]

Today is easier to track and anticipate attendance because ticket sales are mainly online. That allows producers and artists to make quick decisions about doing additional shows in a city or venue. In the past this information was not readily available and having a second or third show in a venue was a risky proposition.

[@HeavyTopspin]

I'm kind of surprised that concerts still manage to exist. I can understand when it's more a multimedia spectacle like with Taylor of Beyonce, but rock concerts? Back in my youth, if I wanted to see Van Halen, my ONLY chance was to attend their concert ($17 for 10th row), or hope they'd show up on a late night show or SNL and play one or two songs. But now, I can find a live performance from just about anybody right here on KZbin, and going to a concert requires taking out a second mortgage.

[@MileHighGrowler]

There ARE still affordable shows, just maybe not the biggest headlining acts. I don't see live music going away because that energy doesn't come through on any device. It's instant, it's cheap, it's expansive in options. But there is no soul and energy like there is when you can feel the kick drum in your chest, the gal to your left is singing along and the guy to your right is dancing. That experience can't be replicated and that's why I still go to 4-5 shows a year and they're almost always sold out because I'm not the only one.

[@caramanico1]

I gotcha. A Zeppelin ticket for the 5/28/77 show in Maryland was $8.50. Lasers and violin bow included... Oh, and they played for three hours.

[@MileHighGrowler]

@@caramanico1 That's $43 in today's money, and you can 100% find a damn good show for that price still. I saw Cory Wong (12-piece group) front-row in a 4,000 seat venue last month, they played for 2 1/2 hours not including the opener and my ticket was less than that. The narrative that all bands are overly expensive just because groups like U2, Blink-182 and T Swift are getting greedy just isn't true.

[@symptomofsouls]

@@MileHighGrowler the most expensive concerts are always trash anyways, just go to some dive bar to watch some obscure underground grit perform for $20 a ticket

[@symptomofsouls]

@@MileHighGrowler $35 a ticket to see Fallujah's The Flesh Prevails tour, with 3 supporting acts

[@joemillo]

In my opinion, there are few if any current artists who will have the longevity of, or pick up where the likes of Neil Diamond, Yes, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, The Police, Genesis and similar bands left off. Those artists and others like them will never be matched or bested by songs written by committee based on an algorithm. The amazing music from the 50s through the 80s is timeless and will still be playing long after the flavor of the moment songs from today’s “artists” have long fallen into obscurity.

[@zcat1006]

Yes.The Beatles, ELO, David Bowie, Jimmie H., Pink Floyd...(many, many more). Hell, even ACDC/Kiss and, dare I say, Duran Duran and DEVO. Where's the originality? Was it all used up? Music today is a victim of "sameness" similar to a lot of bands trying to be the Beatles in the 60's but spread thicker now on an even less diverse and tasteless sandwich. So maybe I'm wrong?

[@desdinovvilla-lobos]

In my opinion, there are a ton of current artists who will have longevity in their careers, as the people who were young when they started listening to them will continue to support them. Bands like Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Taylor Swift, Jay Z will continue to sell out shows as they grow old. I think the popularity of bands like Neil Diamond, Yes, Queen, etc will fade as the the older generations die. I think the stronger bands that are coming out today, that today's youth are listening to, will enjoy their own long careers as their audience ages with them.

[@sharpvidtube]

​@@desdinovvilla-lobos Lots of young people prefer the 60s to 80s bands, so I don't see them fading away. I do think there's lots in more recent decades that are as good. I prefer Muse to Queen, but they won't be as big.

[@QuintEssential-sz2wn]

Throw in ABBA too. On the other hand, it is generally hard to predict which music and which artists will end up having lasting significance.

[@zcat1006]

Who knows? But if another Beatles show up, It will be a Day in The Life. History reflects either fondly or in a disgraced manner. I do believe the human experience is being slowly faded away. Maybe that’s good. One thing about music- it reflects life. I want to meet the next Frank S. that will shake hands with JFK. Or maybe MLK will rap with Eminem? One thing is for sure. History is remembered and then forgotten. Then, repeated. But the more times you pour the sugar, the bowl depletes. Or something like that😅

[@frankisfrank69]

It seems like fewer artists have longevity and real catalogues like bands of old, like the Stones. So it seems really unlikely that generic bands like Imagine Dragons will play the Super Bowl in the future. For the last 40 years, it's been, "Let's celebrate this singer or this band, and then get out of here so we can sell you someone younger"... There is no perenniality to anything anymore.

[@grinkashman7884]

I recently heard RUSH in Wegman's!! Years ago I heard Jeff Beck, Hammerhead at my old supermarket.

[@robwebb9413]

I love this kind of stuff! I find it fascinating to see the sociology aspect of music in a historical context. Thank you for doing this, Rick!

[@Owlr4ider]

Rammstein begun before the internet era as we know it today, well during the very early part of it. The only sing in German and despite that became incredibly popular around the world and in the US in particular, in the confines of the metal genre that is. However yes they're basically the only ones, at least from the tip of my head, that managed to do it before the modern internet era, or more precisely the social media era.

[@davi.poiani]

Gold is very valuable because it is rare, unlike sand which is abundant. This is the scarcity principle. Back in the 90's, buying a record was more of a thing because it was not so easily available. You had to wait and go somewhere to buy it. There is a nostalgia about those times that were really special.

[@bradspringer2372]

Well stated! And you listened to the entire album. All the tracks/cuts. There are no "hidden gems" with today's music.

[@shoegazer93]

In Britain. It was the death of TOP OF THE POPS in 2004, CD: UK, TFI Friday. These shows were shown on the standard 5 TV channels (BBC One, ITV, Channel 4 etc). Yes TOTP may have been cringe most of the time, but at least it gave people an indication of what was going on. There's NO MOVEMENT AND NO ZEITGEIST these days

[@ChrrZ]

well said!

[@nunnayabiz7911]

I remember when my favorite songs would come on the radio, I would actually get butterflies. There is a huge value to anticipation and surprise.

[@poulwinther]

@@bradspringer2372 How could anyone possibly stop listening to the entire Heaven and Hell album?

[@aaronpeta]

Best news ever! Back to the studio to make new songs, then back to the socials to pimp them to the world, Superbowl here I come!

[@peacetrain3320]

Someone already expressed my sentiments - smaller venues, musically talented performers. Real vocals, real instruments, real emotions - That’s what I seek when I go to shows.

[@imonghose553]

I think there is a key factor that has contributed to this change. Nowadays each artist is actually maximizing their potential by reaching every possible person who might be interested in their stuff throughout the world. And the others don't care or haven't heard of them. Thus creating a fairly large niche and engaged fanbase. Hence "bigger" and "smaller" at the same time. Earlier, the music didn't reach all the audiences who maybe interested and only circulated around a few countries, where everyone heard them because they couldn't be avoided, but they were not necessarily interested in them. Hence creating a mega listening audience but with lower levels of engagement.

[@petertrast]

All true, and the best part is the democratization of publishing. The internet and social media age has allowed me to create and distribute my own music without approval and at a very small expense. So now the world (or just my friends and family) can enjoy my music anytime, anywhere :) and random people can also become fans if they like it, too. The most important thing is that ***WE*** the band love our music. We made it for us to listen to, but it is also out in the wild for random travellers in the cyber world to discover :)

[@fernandezvonschwephausen1979]

That is a valid point. We did the same back in the 80/90's, but it was all done on cassette or VHS; record a song or "video", make copies, and hand them out to people, who would play them for other people, maybe some would make a few copies....but it never had the possible wide exposure of the internet. But we did it for ourselves, our friends, and anyone who might enjoy it as well. I guess there could be a chance a copy made it to someone in the industry, but not likely.

[@petertrast]

@@fernandezvonschwephausen1979 Funny you mention making media for friends, we almost decided to press a run of 100 vinyl LPs for Christmas this last year, but at $12 each, it was a little too extravagant :D

[@Sylkis89]

Back in the day the population was smaller and the main stream took a bigger % of total population, the rest was obscure niches. Today there is more people and the mainstream takes up a smaller % because there of emergence of 2ndary streams that aren't the mainstream but aren't obscure niches either. And there's plenty of them. And they're well isolated bubbles

[@markkempton4579]

I'm glad he mentioned the Toto example. I always think of my mom and I walking to the car in the mall parking lot and I heard "We Are The World" from another car. I immediately turned the radio on and knew which station to switch to to hear the same broadcast of the song. There were only a few options in our area, just like TV.

[@FlyntOakwood]

I think that the Grateful Dead did things differently than most bands back in the 70s and 80s. I wish Rick would discuss that one day.

[@Eric777-r1h]

Hey, I asked Rick about the Dead on a live stream and he said he doesn't do videos on them because they block, but he could talk about a live performance, like Micheal p. But he hasn't done that. I guess it's up to Rick though.

[@OscarRuiz-gj3mp]

I would LOVE to see Rick interview either Phill Lesh or Bob Weir....preferably Phill as he is over 80?

[@MattTee1975]

I really don't think he likes them...at all.

[@christisking7778]

It would be REALLY interesting if he covered the CIA ties to the Grateful Dead too.

[@TweettweetJones]

@flyntoakwood2298. What made them different was performing their songs differently every single night they were out on tour.

[@Jehoshful]

This is one of Rick's most informative videos (imho), in that they're illuminating us on how things in the "digital age" (smartphones, etc.) have brought the world closer together, but, in contrast, we are more "siloed" (choosing our own programming) than ever. On top of all this, I"m just (very) happy that the sound from KZbin, Facebook, etc., sounds pretty clean to my ears. The FM stations in my city have went to sludge in the last 2 decades, making the songs nearly unlistenable--talk about "regression' ! As long as the content providers include good sound, it will make the (personal) choices much more enjoyable to listen to and experience !

[@sayjustwordstome]

I saw Marky Ramone and his band a few months ago. Small club, some 200 people I guess. I was standing right in front of the bassist. Pure, raw and honest music. I will never go to the big stadium shows and pay 100 dollars for an artist that I can’t even see.

[@matthewdennis1739]

Yeah, all the best shows I've ever been have been smaller venues with artists who play real music. Everything from Brian Fallon and Tyler Bingham to Brett Dennen and Dave Hause.

[@jeffrice4713]

Before social media and the internet the people all heard that one hit song together for the first time and changed our culture forever. Beatles "I Want To Hold Your Hand", Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven ", Bee Gees "Staying Alive", Michael Jackson "Billie Jean", Guns N Roses "Welcome to the Jungle", Nirvana "Smell Like Teen Spirit", etc. Where is that song today?

[@matthewdennis1739]

God, "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" is so bad though.

[@fastenit27]

@@matthewdennis1739Should he have chosen "She Loves You" instead?

[@matthewdennis1739]

@@fastenit27 I think my point is that just because people are hearing something together doesn't mean everyone magically has wonderful feelings about it. I'd rather have music I enjoy than music I don't enjoy but I can share with everyone because we're all listening to the same thing. You know what I mean?

[@fastenit27]

@@matthewdennis1739 I think the poster was focusing on the greater common social influence music has had in the past compared to now. Like the song or not, many people also hated the Beatles music at the time and dismissed it. What ever the case, we had common reference points. We can view the common experience as positive or negative. Personally, I think that "I Want to Hold Your Hand,", "Please, Please Me", "She Loves You," were musical deviations from the pop/rock music that came before it. These Beatle songs were something beyond what we personally like or enjoy. They helped to change the way songwriters and musicians conceived and approached music from that point after. Both then and now we can choose any time of music we want to spend time with. Personally, I try to spend time with music I am unfamiliar with or even don't like upon first or second listen. I try to find the value in it and hope to learn or understand differently.

[@matthewdennis1739]

@@fastenit27 I would argue even then, more variety in the music consumed will lead to more different unique influences and cross pollination of different ideas, styles, etc. Yes, I suppose there may be fewer culture defining moments, but I'm not sure that matters. If anything I think polyculture produces more interesting change because not everything is changing with the same influences and timeline.

[@nickkorea5850]

Without a doubt this is the best era of music bc a guy in a NY office can't tell me what to listen to. I discover more bands in a day than a music fan in the 80's did in a year

[@jamesprivet]

Nonsense. Have you heard of music magazines, independent AM and FM radio stations, pirate radio, cassette copies shared around?

[@LouLou-cm3pp]

@@jamesprivet I have! And guess what - its still exponentially faster to preview vast quantities music on my phone. All those sources you listed were still based on "gatekeepers" who picked and chosed for us - they were just hipster gatekeepers. I do miss that thrill of discovering a new band from college radio or by reading Maximum R&R...but even then, it was a massive effort to hunt down an album unless the majors produced it. Now I'm like "Sam Prekop? I'll listen to his entire discography over the weekend."

[@samuelecallegari6117]

​@@LouLou-cm3ppyeah, that's because you were already used to the LP formula and you kept it. Younger generations just don't care anymore about albums or listening to all the songs an artist produced. They just listen to the more popular playlists like "hot hits" etc. And that's all. And that's exactly the same, if not worse, gatekeeping you were talking about in the past.

[@saltlakedood]

@@samuelecallegari6117 Right, "the algorithm" is the worst gatekeeper!!!

[@ghimbos]

yes, you're right ... Now, which bands did you discover "yesterday"? Still remember them? ;-)

[@lewissmart7915]

In Australia Livenation has come to dominate the entire festival and live music scene, many smaller businesses displaced / out of business / bought up.

[@walmartgolem]

Not true. There are plenty of other promoters and Live Nation don't own venues like in the USA.

[@glenrotchin5523]

Related topic or maybe not. I’m about Rick’s age. Grew up with the rock star as myth, unattainable, untouchable, living a rock star dream life. Limos and chicks and sex and drugs, and trashing hotel rooms. Seems to me that the corporatization of the industry and social media have de-mythologized the rock star. Maybe I’m being nostalgic. But my kids aren’t living with that sense of idolization of the artist.

[@MrDirtydaves]

I think people still idolize stars, just in a different way. We dreamt of rock stars, nowadays I think most people want to believe they’re heroes are beyond reproach. Taylor Swifts publicity game is strong.

[@MrDeengels]

I remember wanting to watch the Grammys to watch my favorite artists perform. I couldnt name 5 artists on the top 40 now.

[@fiwebster9814]

I didn't used to watch the Grammys because the show was so tacky & boring. Now I watch the Grammys in order to *discover* new music. Just to name a couple of artists off the top of my head, I would never have discovered Chris Stapleton or boygenius were it not for the Grammys. And oh man am I glad I have them in my life.

[@marcintwarowski]

Swift plays two (correction: three) stadium concerts in Warsaw this year. Apparently there has been a massive boost in plane ticket sales from USA to Europe the same time she has concerts. If you asked average person on the street they may not know who she is though.

[@2confrontational]

I can attest to that, I'm from Sardinia Italy and she's kind of relatively unknown somehow...

[@poulwinther]

I know who she is mostly because she appears stock market news stories and at Formula 1 races which are my two interests outside music. Her music I have no clue of.

[@idc9053]

She actually plays 3 shows in Warsaw

[@stefanor.1771]

@@2confrontational Yes in Italy many people over 50 don't know who she is, of course most students know of her, but in each school there are only a few swifties, our italian singers are much more famous

[@wasntme1967]

@@stefanor.1771 because Italian singers can actually sing

[@jayluck8047]

Each generation, each person mostly, has their story of “Where were you...”. For me, it was the day I heard of the invention of the MP3 codec.

[@beingsshepherd]

But where were you?

[@NJGuy1973]

In 1991, a musician named Nicholas "Momus" Currie wrote an article for a 'zine. He stated that Warhol was partially right. It's not that in the future everyone will be famous for 15 minutes, but famous to 15 people.

[@marcosambrotta101]

Love this guy, great, dry sense of humor! Loved it when he mentioned Rick's Apple rant as the reason for Shazam not working on his iPhone 😅

[@stefanor.1771]

I am from Italy and until a few months ago I had never heard a Taylor Swift song and she is the biggest act in the world, in the 80s it was impossible not to have heard some of Madonna's or Michael Jackson's songs even if you weren't a fan. A lot of people here can't name a Taylor Swift or Drake or Weeknd song. Coldplay in Italy sold out 6 stadiums in 2023 and another 4 stadiums have been sold out for their shows in the summer, and if they toured again in 2025 they would sell out another 4 or 6 stadiums but they are not as famous as the artists from the 80s, what this guy says is true, artists have never been so big and so small.

[@dyna6448]

I think most people probably have heard a Taylor Swift, The Weeknd or Drake song in their lives but don't know it's from them. I also had the same feeling with bands like Radiohead or black Sabbath.😊

[@secrets.295]

Taylor Swift isnt a big deal in Europe. In the US & Asia she was as big as Madonna, maybe even more. Madonna's popularity has her up & down moments, TS was consistently big for almost 2 decades. Very unusual for a female pop star to reach such level of fame for such a long period of time. Anyway I don't like her. I think she's a scam. The way she manipulates saying record labels forced her to sell her records and then get all her teenage fans to rally behind her and then create her newer versions of all of her albums. Its disgusting. Record labels cannot force you to sell your record, if u dont want to sell it, it is as simple as saying, I dont want to sell it. But she sells it and later plays victim 🙄🙄🙄. And then the way she plays with men's heart & broke up with them, write songs about them and making yourself look like the innocent helpless victim and men are the problems. Plus her acting victim again when Kanye disses her in the song eventhough Kanye asked her permission on a phone call and she agreed. She didnt knew the call was recorded and got busted when Kanye released the call recording. This girl is a scam artist and a hypocrite. 😂😂😂

[@stefanor.1771]

@@secrets.295 In Italy she wasn't even in the top 20 best selling albums in 2023 but she has sold out two stadiums fast, it is hard to explain, maybe because all her fans want to see her and are travelling from all over the country to go to the concerts

[@secrets.295]

@@stefanor.1771 She does have some following but she isn't that big. I am not sure about that too. Beyonce is the same, not that big in Europe but managed to sell out.

[@potatopotato8360]

​@@secrets.295 Taylor Swift is an influencer not a music artist. Extremely boring, annoying, formulaic and forgettable music. The only reason she is still so popular is because of smartphones and social media, Madonna and Britney Spears managed to be naturally popular without that.

[@danielraymadden]

Stevie Nicks thankyou you are a true rock legend...Heart your vocals are unrivaled....Pat Benatar thank you for giving your heart...

[@andypullega5479]

Rick, I'm about a year and a half younger than you and we just have to face it, the radio and the powers that be just won't play all the wonderful new music that a lot of young bands/artists have coming out. It's sad but, that's just how it is. Oh well....

[@mrcryptozoic817]

I agree. And "underground radio" isn't a thing anymore. I don't know how anyone would get exposed to new music. That's how found out about Vangelis, Tomita, Michael Hoenig, West Coast Popart Experimental Band, Blood Rock and too many others to list.

[@meetmobility]

BBC radio 6 music does a reasonable job. I've discovered quite a bit through them over the years.

[@The_Umpteenth_Doctor]

Since joining KZbin Music in 2020, my music tastes have definitely diverged from current popular music because it opened me up to songs I never would have heard before. Back is the 2000s and 2010s, if I wanted to listen to the entire back catalogue of Paul McCartney, Elton John, Gladys Knight, Nina Simone or The Who, it would've cost so much money to buy the albums, and even then I may have only liked 2 or 3 tracks. I wouldn't have been worth it. I freaking ❤❤ KZbin Music!

[@garysimonson1135]

Don't forget the best era of rock music - the early 90s Grunge and Alternative Rock revolution.

[@kennyadvocat]

I've watched many old documentaries and books about people traveling and discovering new types of music. I guess I didn't realize how big Monoculture has become with the internet. 10 years ago on a tour we got invited to play horn parts with a local band in Indonesia. I was very excited at first to lean new foreign music. Only to find out it was the same 90s bar band set that i was playing in NYC during college back in 2008 haha Even the most cheesy songs were being performed over 10,000 miles away. Crazy! There are way more local asian groups posting on youtube now tho vs 2015. And now with tiktok all those old 80-90s songs came back even harder. The space is always changing!

[@fredthebaker8881]

on the cusp of 4M rick! Ticket buying was quite different back in the day. Taking cash to the ticketron window on the second floor of jordan marsh. Now it's one click on your phone.

[@markgemmell3769]

Great conversation Rick. I was born in 66. I enjoyed living in the monoculture but I love living today in this rich multi-culture even more.

[@rajbhatti8248]

Best response in this thread. Too many people are pining for the "good old days". Those days are long gone. We should enjoy the richness and varied textures of the music we have today, not live in the past.

[@richardgillette5759]

You must be super woke

[@matthewdennis1739]

@@richardgillette5759 What does wokeness have to do with liking a variety of music?

[@matthewdennis1739]

@@rajbhatti8248 We can enjoy both. At any given moment I can listen to a Led Zepplin song from 1971 then transition to a Molly Tuttle song from 2023....and love both of them. And to me that is why today is better. I can enjoy all of those great artists of the past, but I can also listen to Brian Fallon and Sierra Ferrell and Charley Crockett.

[@texasrwayne31]

I have said it before, but I will say it again. I love your channel. I love the interviews, the content, the honesty and the transparency. It means a lot to people/musicians like me that wonder how it all works. Thank you for all that you do Rick in pulling back the curtain on the wizard.

[@flatrounds]

We do have a monoculture now. It’s the “bzzzzz” feeling of looking at our phones which robs us of focused attention and drives us further apart from one another. The interesting thing about the fact that our previous monoculture was MTV/radio is that there was still a healthy underground subculture that existed outside of it. We don’t really have that anymore. We just have everyone in a constant zombie like “bzzzz” state. Our thoughts, habits, emotions, and the way we relate to others and create culture together now all exist peripheral and subservient to the almighty “bzzzz.” A paradigm shift has occurred and this is actually the new concept of human “culture.”

[@freq9939]

You're right. Culture itself is deforming from constant dopamine from tech. We expect perfection in everything now. No anticipation either. Culture is online more than it is in person. The media used to be this separate entity now we are all a part of it.

[@77Matt]

I have stopped buying tickets to my touring bands - actually since about 14 months now. Inflation is a big factor, but also that the bands I want to see are only playing the bigger venues - and those venues sell the best places by demand. Sayonara.

[@kamojet]

Yeah, maybe you should ask Ticket Master/ Live Nation about that "INFLATION". You know... the guys that control the venues and the ticket sales.... I think there's more to be said, but I'm not sayin it. I stopped watching when I heard: "Live Nation". I'm kinda blown away that I'm the only commenter to be triggered by "Live Nation".

[@coonazz98]

Im 48 years old see live music on a regular basis. Used to dj on college radio. I couldnt tell young taylor swift song. Maybe i heard one once but it obviously wasnt good enough to find out who it was.

[@Hi-FiChess]

She isn't as popular as she seems to be. She's magnified by mainstream to be this monstrously popular person when in fact that not entirely accurate. Same goes for a lot of things currently going on that's on public display.

[@rubyfranklin9322]

Yeah she is maybe not to you but you are entitled to your opinion

[@Flukey_1970]

IVe debated this and watched so many videos lately it really fascinates me as to what has caused the change in music. No one can deny that something has changed. We have gone from types of music that define decades. You can tell 60s, 70s 80s.90s music but after that you could take a song and release it now and you would hardly notice. Also we dont have music creating movements like punk, new wave, mods, rockers etc. There is also a lack of big bands coming though. Solo artist seem to make it big but seems harder for bands.

[@mattpotter8725]

Whilst I agree with a lot, maybe most of what is said in the video I do think that there are still gatekeepers to what music gets promoted and what just doesn't and I think even though artists today can put out their music to their audience on music streaming platforms I think this mostly gets traction with younger people. Before maybe 2010 or thereabouts I'd say you would still get your music from places like MTV, radio, or out and about. I think there is a huge untapped market of there that just isn't being served. I also think with streaming services and artists not getting paid in the traditional sense, from singles and album sales,maybe they don't need this because they get exposure from touring, playing live events, and appearing promoting brands. I don't know how you fix this because everything is fed by algorithm these days and it just serves up more of the same, which is sad. I'd love to find new bands and artists to follow but it's not easy. Maybe the algorithms will get better but I just don't find they work for me maybe because I have a diverse taste.

[@dxfifa]

You are really out of touch if you don't think there are defining genres these days. from the 2010s alone Trap and Dubstep (brostep) came out of nowhere to dominate. Then there's the many divergences in modern hip hop, the Kanye/Drake style of minimalist R&B combined with trap, the drill explosion, Soundcloud rap (Juice WRLD, XXX Tentacion). The hip hop/pop hybrid like Post Malone that came from modern styles of both. There's all the new styles of EDM that went mainstream and merged into pop. And that's excluding any retro influenced reinterpretation of old styles, like Dua Lipa or The Weeknd's new music. Just because you are illiterate to the changes in hip hop/dance music and the flow on to pop artists (who you think is the same old pop) doesn't mean there hasn't been noticeable new genres coming into the mainstream. Rock might have died in the mainstream but your view is clearly rock-centric

[@Flukey_1970]

@@dxfifa Thank god i am out of touch if thats what is classed as defining genres.

[@ymmv99]

@@dxfifaIt's still just hip hop just like all the dozens of metal sub genres are still metal. Compare that to the sixties, seventies and eighties where entirely new musical genres were conceived.

[@dxfifa]

@@ymmv99 And how manyof them were rock and R&B subgenres that would not be called new genres if they were rapping over the beat by your definition? Pretty much all of them lmao

[@donny2327]

It’s like, more people are listening to more music, but they’re not hearing it in the way we used to. The cord has been cut and the bloodlines just aren’t as deep anymore. The joy of random discovery has been slashed. Reaction is diluted and impulse more considered. Still, all hope is not gone. A great song will always be a great song. We just need more artists to be inspired to write them.

[@JimAndDeePatton]

I went to see Paul McCartney a few years back. There were 55,000 people and a PA system for a crowd of about 25,000. Nobody seemed to care except me. Of course, I was about as far away from the stage as you could get. Still, even if I only had $100 dollar seats and could see nothing but part of the screen, I should still be able to hear it well.

[@nessy9022]

This reminds me that the Beatles made a career out of overselling venues with undercooked PA systems. It surprises me that Epstein never got much criticism for that business model, given that, I'd assume, the vast majority of fans who bought tickets to see The Beatles likely had a sub-par listening experience. It's disappointing to hear McCartney was still doing that afterwards, when blaming the limitations of technology, carries no weight whatsoever.

[@littlegreenman1]

I suspect Pab might disagree.

[@Alexandra_Indina]

​@@nessy9022Do you really compare the quality of technologies and sound sistems in the60s and in the 00s and 2010s?! Maybe you should think before writing a little?🤦‍♀️

[@nessy9022]

@@Alexandra_Indina No I'm not. Noone is comparing audio technologies. you seemed to miss the point entirely. That being if you sell tickets to a show knowing that the PA system is inadequate, then you're ripping people off. The era doesn't matter, people could hear The Beatles at smaller venues and it was their (Epstein's) business decision to book shows at e.g. stadiums with inadequate sound reinforcement. If a superstar booked a stadium today using the wattage they used in the sixties they'd get taken to the cleaners in litigation. No one forced either McCartney's nor The Beatles into OVERSELLING TICKETS. That's the issue. Greed. Salt in the wound for ticket buyers being that The Beatles stopped touring just as the tech began to be revolutionised by Bill Hanley and the like. From the sixties until now, there's always been a small enough venue for sufficient audibility, e.g The Cavern. I'm discussing a business model, so... Ditto..