What's on a Standard Trad Rack? | How to build your first trad kit

[@WyomingMtnMan]

The reason Wild Country calls them "Friends" is because of the inventor of cams, Ray Jardine. Ray Jardine is an American engineer who invented cams and was keeping them secret as he was refining them. His climbing partners really liked them so when they would go climbing with Jardine his friends would ask if he was bringing any of his "friends" along, a code word for the cams. If my memory is correct, he gave the first license to manufacture cams to Wild Country, and they were initially marketed as "Friends."

[@botbunk]

This is the most informative beginner trad rack video I’ve found. Thank you so much!

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks man! glad you are on the trad journey!

[@tracewell]

This is extremely helpful. Your pacing of the information, the organized way you presented the info, and you showing the camera close up explanations were all well done. Outstanding. Thanks.

[@imacarrot6570]

I don't even want to climb and I can't stop watching these videos. This was a really good explanation.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Nice, glad you like them!

[@oscardodd4223]

Your videos are ace - super informative! I've been trad climbing for a while but find it really interesting seeing how the standard rack varies in different parts of the world! In the UK, we don't have many parallel cracks :(, so the standard rack has far fewer cams (lots of my mates only climb with 3-4, I use 6 personally 0.5-3), but then a double set of nuts, often with offsets and micro nuts to supplement that! Keep making the great content!

[@summitseekersexperience]

yeah... I think where you climb, that kit definitely makes sense.

[@andersonboy620]

Nice video man, very useful tips and clearly explaned, good job!

[@djdiscopapi]

great for me as I have just been learning more about trad and the equipment necessary. This was really helpful thank you.

[@jbdavisnc]

I'd argue the primary reason to extend is to protect your pro. New trad leaders coming from gym or outdoor sport should really pay attention to walking pro and zippering potential. Trad pro doesn't always stay put like bolts, especially directional passive pro. One of my early leads, I zippered out my pro because I hadn't been exposed to this concept, but definitely learned a lesson. My position is that unless it's a vertical splitter crack, it ought to be extended by default. Rope drag is still super important on longer leads, but insulating your pro from the rope comes first. Thanks for your video 👍🤠.

[@jbdavisnc]

shame on me for not watching all the way first. Glad you commented on it around 20:43 👍 Thank you again, great video

[@summitseekersexperience]

For sure... I tried to articulate (not well) to just know why you are extending. But after watching the video again, I do come off as basically like "don't extend"... I may make another video on extending and it's benefits because I definitely don't want people to think "Oh don't extend anything". Thanks for the interest in the channel and feedback!

[@neilp3235]

Awesome video! Thanks for sharing this knowledge for us beginners

[@ClimbingADK]

Started off with 7 cams .5-3 a couple duplicates and a yellow alien, 7 nuts and 7 hexes. Had 12 draws, 2 cordelettes, 6 slings. First trad lead was high E. Progressed a lot since then.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Nice

[@zacht4909]

Thank you for this comment, just got into climbing this month making High E my goal for next summer was wondering what I’d need

[@stewartbrooks1912]

"... uh so this is what my set of nuts looks like.." Great video.

[@summitseekersexperience]

lol

[@telestix6606]

Great video, spot on though I was waiting to see how you used that belt buckle as an emergency chalk :-)

[@summitseekersexperience]

hahahah

[@Sicnus]

lmao, his belt buckle is aid... just hammer it in and clip and whip.

[@richrich685]

That is a bad ass belt bucket!

[@CrowMagnumMan2024]

Thanks for the video....I noticed you carry no quick draws.....I am a total beginner so I just wanted to know why....I thot these were the most basic piece of equipment.....would appreciate your input.....thanks a million

[@ananda_miaoyin]

Great stuff - totally agree on the alpine draws; carry plenty of those! I like the idea of tri cams but have seen lots of failures on videos. I have never owned any or climbed with them. I climb Northern Cali and have never seen them up here but they look so cool for those horizontal cracks! I have some baby Metolius ultralight cams for those and a great set of Dragons for the bigger stuff. The scariest part of the whole deal for me is trusting the gear. I like to practice falls with cams or nuts placed just above a sport bolt and take a nice little whipper to inspire confidence but I will be honest, hanging on a trad anchor a few hundred feet up still feels sketchy! I want the second to hurry up so I can get off of that thing...

[@mikepiper3736]

Another thing that can be helpful for building confidence, if you have two belayers available, is to have somebody else lead a single pitch route first. Then you can re-lead it and take falls on your gear, with a slack top-rope as backup. (Advantage here being that it can be done on routes that aren't bolted, though you need two belayers and at least one other person who can trad lead the pitch.)

[@crabbiboi5528]

Where are ya climbing at? I'm from nor cal, some great climbing out there.

[@ananda_miaoyin]

@@crabbiboi5528 Some local areas in El Dorado county. Lover's Leap is a killer spot.

[@husky701rider9]

Did my first multi pitch trad lead the other day! I just have a singles rack but I made it work. Definitely took too many lockers lol.

[@summitseekersexperience]

So heavy

[@DVMCellini]

great video and info

[@summitseekersexperience]

yeah boi

[@martinbrathen3635]

Hi, why do you opt for a nylon sling as a rappel extension instead dyneema?

[@RennerFoto]

Such good info here. 👍

[@joel6376]

re cams, you could easily recolor another brand to match what is used in callouts.

[@colbjallen8334]

Got a big ol belt buckle on that harness

[@summitseekersexperience]

Oh yeah

[@michaelblunn8719]

What about DMM Dragons ? Feel like they are really under appreciated in the US climbing scene

[@summitseekersexperience]

Hey Michael, yeah, DMM is super reputable, but the problem overall (and trivial) is that the color scheme doesn't match BD C4s which are the predominant cams here. I think one main reason Wild Country has been successful here is that they have the same color scheme as BD. Let me know if you are ever over this way and we can get on some stuff!

[@ananda_miaoyin]

I have a full set of the Dragons and they are the most bomber cams I have ever seen. Super smooth, love the lack of thumb loop and they extend beautifully. I was comparing them to my partners BD set and the colors do match but the measurements are just a teeny bit off - like 1 or 2mm. You are correct that they are under appreciated. I climb Northern Cali and am always the only one with them. Other climbers are are like, "Whoa! What kinda cams are those, bro?!" "Those look SWEET!" Shout out to Wales for making some kickass gear.

[@DrCowinabox]

@@summitseekersexperience that actually isn't true anymore . I have a full set of dragons and they are the exact same color (though numbered differently) as the comparable friends/ c4s. What you said IS true of the old demon cams, though they haven't been in production for some time now. Definitely recommend the dragon 2s to anyone who can afford the extra couple bucks. The machining is absolutely a cut above other manufacturers.

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@DrCowinabox Cool, I need to take another look then.

[@mikel1425]

That's a sweet shirt... hiked there but I don't feel I'd earn the shirt unless I climbed it... and it's trad of course, which I'm not quite ready to commit to, but heaps more sport climbing at my level for me to tick at this point in the northern Wasatch

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks man! yeah, Pingora was definitely a test but not too scary as you could lace it up pretty good. Amazing place to climb. Yeah, Wasatch ain't bad either ;-)

[@dereksantavenere2172]

is that belt buckle part of the rack ?

[@summitseekersexperience]

Yeah, metolious

[@chase7176]

Do both the leader and belayer bring a grigri?

[@summitseekersexperience]

I prefer to be belayed on a grigri no matter leading or following so yes.

[@birchfie]

Great video. I recently bought 24 and 30 inch Sterling nylon sewn runners (17mm), for building alpine draws, but I'm finding that most draws have dyneema (including yours). I'll probably pickup some dyneema runners, but I thought I'd ask your opinion on dyneema vs nylon for alpine draws. I'm relatively new to trad if you can't tell already. Thx!

[@summitseekersexperience]

Nice, Thanks for the comment! I definitely recommend dyneema slings for alpine draws, this is essentially their best fit because you don't tie any knots on them and they are significantly lighter than the nylon slings. I'd recommend using the nylon slings for personal anchor systems (PAS) or building anchors. For the dyneema slings, check out Trango as they have been the most economical that I've found. I prefer Black Diamond for nylon slings.

[@djcontour]

Do you keep on full set of cams on each side of your harness? Or do you split them with some type of system like big on some side and small on the other?

[@summitseekersexperience]

Full set on each side

[@djcontour]

That’s what I figured! Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[@brodygibson8566]

You climb in Western NC? Would love to climb some with ya if you're in the area. Thanks for the vid 👍

[@summitseekersexperience]

Hey Brody, yeah, I climb there quite a bit, will probably be spending more time out there as it warms up in March. Send me your contact info and I'll send you a buzz next time I'm up in the area! Send your contact info to our email: [e-mail]

[@stuff2climb102]

great video!

[@cacambo]

Awesome stuff, like for the algorithm

[@summitseekersexperience]

the almighty algorithm

[@ToolinAroundTools]

Why/when is a clove hitch preferable to an alpine loop? ETA: "Friend" is actually the original name for cam devices.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Cool Fact on the cam stuff. In regards to alpine loop, I believe the main application for that is glacier travel/alpine territory when you are connecting someone in the middle of the rope. I don't use that knot much in rock climbing.

[@ToolinAroundTools]

@@summitseekersexperience I use alpine loops a lot for tree climbing.

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@ToolinAroundTools Nice, makes sense

[@edmunek]

worth to mention. wild country cams had colour scheme changed 3 times. if you would buy older cams and newer cams, you will find that colours do not follow any scheme and you can end with 3x purple, all in a different size, even if from one manufacturer

[@summitseekersexperience]

Purple is my favorite so the more the better ;-)

[@jaredskilton606]

I've got old hard body wild country friends, that you had to tie your sling into pre drilled holes. No colour at all, still a lot nicer that a full rack of hex .

[@TknJn]

40lbs of chainmail dress? AFD trad EPIC?? Oooh Sir! Suits You Sir!! The above advice of a slightly reduced / minimal rack (perhaps more of a miniskirt?) resulting in weight reduction & less movement impairment is utterly gold. Well, if you are determined to take _all_ your pro. up that V.Diff (which can be a fun challenge) then you might find that your gear loops are a liiiiiiiitle bit chokkah. A way round this is Yosemite Racking (of matching gear) eg draws / cams the same size. However! WARNING: (the reason for my mildly rambling posting) Y.Rack on a wire gate crab as the 'base' can result in gear loss from a liiitle bump. solution? base crab as a solid not wire gate & it can be solely to rack upon. an oval snapgate eg a PerfectO might suit this cause. They are my weapon of choice for divide & conquer due to the 6 colour options, also the symmetry for racking nuts on gives a pleasant flippability resulting in good handling. I'll spare Y'all the details of my colour code hope that helps. Cheers! :-j p.s. BIGUP DMM of N.Wales; their gear is stunning & yes i am biased

[@carravagio16]

I understand your comment about seeing people with more gear than you think is necessary for that route however some people (like myself) feel more secure placing more pieces and moving more slowly than your average climber. Even if that grade is well with in my abilities i still perfer and enjoy placing more pro. great videos and info just wanted to toss in my 2 cents, also do you have affiliate links where spending money on gear can support your channel, you have alot of informative content that i would like to support financially

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks man!!! and thanks for the input. Yes, my business partner climbs as you stated, he likes to feel secure and he's a gear nerd so he loves placing the gear anyways. Climbing is super personal and it's great when you figure out the type of climber you are. Working on the affiliates, I'll keep you updated. As of now, still relatively new to the game. I appreciate the compliment though.

[@carravagio16]

@@summitseekersexperience Thank you for the reply, you seem to be building a good community here on youtube alot of people will support you when you get up the affiliates and such, keep the positivity and transparency

[@F2hidroLab]

Just some input: 1. Consider replacing your prusics and cordalette to 5.5-6mm kevlar/aramid cord. For cordlette, you can thread it right thru a bolt, also lighter. Also you can use your prussics upgraded to full strength material. Ive seen it come handy (leaving behind when escaping, thread halfly hammered in pegs, etc...). 2. Why would you reserve a sling for rappeing? It would be more weight effective to use ona of your "climbing" slings, you dont need 3 if you rappeling. Also if you want to reserve something to rappeling why dont you use a PAS or Petz connect adjust. They are way more versatile. 3. Do you really need that much locker? I carry 2 for belaying with ATC like device in guide mode, one for masterpoint and 2 more if you have 2 bolt belay. Any other application could be solved with the light wire gates. If in need, remove 2 from cams and use them togedher facing away to replace a locker. Thats the things we do in Europe ;) forgive my english its not my native language. Nice vid tho, keep it up!

[@summitseekersexperience]

Hi Jozsef, what part of Europe do you live? I've spent quite a bit of time in Munich. Thanks for all the comments. A couple quick responses: I'll take a look at what you said on the cordelette/prusik stuff but my stuff is "full strength" in that it's rated for 6-7 kN for prusiks and I think like 8-10 for my cordelette. Only exception here is the hollow-block. For PAS, I actually do utilize a Petzl Connect Adjust but that's a little advanced for someone just starting to climb trad (in my opinion) which is why I highlighted some of the simpler systems. For lockers, I believe I had 7. I've gone lighter than that but 7 is what I need when I'm not counting on my partner to have any. I've tried to go less than that, it's doable maybe with 6 but I've found 7 to be the right number for me. As with kit preferences, there's always multiple solutions so thanks for the input!

[@F2hidroLab]

@@summitseekersexperience On the prusik/cordlette stuff: Theese aramid cords rated for 20kN or more, like slings or metal stuff. You probably good with 10kN cordlette, if there are higher forces generated in a trad fall you gona have baaad time. But never know... Using it several years now, they work perfectly as a prusik, bites even the half ropes properly. Edelweiss makes them in 5.5 also theres a nice pink and blue color ;), Edelrid makes a more stiff 6mm yellow one, thats not the best for this use, although its the best for threading hourglasses in limestone... so easy to poke thru a hole. Also i saw some 6mm black ones maybe from Tendon?

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@F2hidroLab Nice, thanks for the follow-up, I buy a lot of stuff from Edelweiss so I'll check it out.

[@ananda_miaoyin]

@@F2hidroLab Check out the channel "How not to trad climb" and you can see some SUPER whipper fall testing on a KN meter. You would be lucky to generate anything over 4KN on even an 60 foot fall. These guys are all under 200lbs but it would be still be under 5KN for a 225 pounder. I like 7mm Eldelrid cord for all my cordage needs and anchoring, Great stuff and very durable.

[@F2hidroLab]

@@ananda_miaoyin Thats a great channel! I am a regular viewer. They actually didnt test a factor 2 fall, where much higher forces could happen. Also, you can thread the aramid stuff thru bolts, witch is nice when bailing. Also if you ever cut theese bad boys, it requires much more work. So in an event of rockfall, i want to hang from an aramid stuff. I dont say that the standard 7 mm PE isnt good, the aramid cord just much more versatile!

[@hamishlivo]

What diameter cord you go for on your cordlette?

[@summitseekersexperience]

I believe 7 mm

[@AnonymousOtters]

Massive fking belt buckle is clearly the best piece. Gotta make sure you've got something sharp and metal near your member when you fall so that you don't accidentally produce trad babies

[@summitseekersexperience]

ha... I don't know, I seem to climb a lot better without a 2 lbs belt buckle on so I think I should be good in most scenarios.

[@melwtan]

Best way to not become a Trad dad.

[@user-pj1gh]

0:47 same for beltbuckles ;)

[@lovis_hertel]

how much about does a starter trad rack kost? am i looking at like a couple 100 or easily 1000?

[@summitseekersexperience]

Prob 1000 if you source it right… you could exceed 1000 if you buy everything msrp

[@lovis_hertel]

thank you so much!@@summitseekersexperience

[@JimBenson]

For guide books in the southeast does a standard rack include the double cams from #0.3-2? As a new trad climber I've been trying to get by without dropping another few hundred and was wondering if doubling is worth it particularly now that i picked up a pack of tri cams.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Hey Jim, if you are trying to save some cash initially, I'd recommend skipping the tricams. If you have doubles from 0.3-2 and a set of nuts, you're definitely on the way to a good start, especially if you are just doing single pitch. if you like trad climbing and want to do bigger stuff, then you can look into tricams along with some of the other items I mentioned in the video (smaller and bigger cams).

[@rgr195]

@@summitseekersexperience - Skip the tricams..... Heresy!!!!!!

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@rgr195 lol

[@FlatOutFE]

Hexes are less expensive and a lighter replacement to cams but it really depends on where you are climbing. I've climbed for 32 years and only carry one each of 0.2 to 3 plus some hexes. My area really favors nuts and hexes. If I'm headed to Indian Creek I invite friends with lots of #1, #2, and few extra #3. 😁

[@summitseekersexperience]

@@FlatOutFE Nice, I wish I lived close to Indian Creek ;-)

[@alvarobriceno4500]

Thank you!

[@prestonakin6618]

Love it

[@roemerjonker284]

This helps me

[@michaelmcdermed841]

look at that belt buckle!!!

[@trombahonker]

That belt plate!

[@PaoloCaglioLMT]

Tennessee? 🤠

[@summitseekersexperience]

For sure

[@PaoloCaglioLMT]

@@summitseekersexperience I recognized the brick house style :)

[@bonesrangel8327]

Gates out 👏😤😂

[@testboga5991]

am I the only idiot who adjusts his setup for each route? am I doing something wrong?

[@space9277]

Nothing wrong with adjusting it if you know what you’re getting into. If you’re going on vacation for 3 days, you don’t have to pack like you’re going for 3 weeks. Obviously don’t under prepare either. Safety is always #1. You don’t want to end up in an accident report or worse get someone hurt.

[@douglasw2662]

I don't like the idea of new trad leaders having the bare minimum in terms of gear. I'd recommend that new leaders carry more than they expect. Other than that, good stuff.

[@summitseekersexperience]

Thanks for the input Doug. Just curious what part of the country you climb in? I would think in part of the country where there is really symmetrical cracks you'd definitely need to triple up on some cams.

[@douglasw2662]

@@summitseekersexperience mid Atlantic 🤙

[@summitseekersexperience]

Nice, I've climbed some with Blue Ridge Mountain Guides. Holler if you ever come down to NC/TN/AL/GA, those are the main areas I climb in... although just got back from red rock canyon!

[@telestix6606]

While I agree it would be nice to have more, I think most leaders are like I was, trying to scrape together enough gear to get started. I started leading on a set of chalks and 3 cams because that was what we had. then you simply adjusted the route difficulty to account for that.

[@FlatOutFE]

I wouldn't consider the rack described in this video to be the "minimum". It's pretty comprehensive.

[@L1quidbrick]

whenever hes says "im now gonna show you my rack" i laugh so much

[@mcfjk3]

7 lockers. Woah.

[@evelynwall7470]

Just rack up with 15 link cams, you need 15 because they're one time use only.

[@Ry-tc7et]

heavy on nuts

[@summitseekersexperience]

“That’s what she said” -Michael Scott Sorry, I couldn’t resist

[@tuomassyrjaniemi]

😂first I would be interested in the price tag of that whole rack

[@space9277]

Usually hundreds to the low thousands for cams depending on the setup and collection. In this situation probably ballpark around 1500 or so for the harness and everything. Price can vary depending how much you pay and if you buy during sales where things drop to 25% off. Usually people do trad climbing (protection placed by the climber) after they get into sport climbing since sport climbing has less of a financial barrier is more welcoming to people will less gear. There are other videos on this channel that cover sport climbing better. With sport climbing the protection is preinstalled (bolts attached by someone in the past) and you don’t need to buy cams in that situation. You can get a set of 6 quickdraws for around the price of one cam. Obviously you’ll need a rope for either sport or trad so that cancels itself out and there isn’t really anything else you would buy for sport climbing that couldn’t be used later on for trad. For a starter sport set if someone didn’t have any sport climbing gear they could probably manage to climb safely for maybe 600-700. The rope is the most expensive part so try to get that on discount. Like I said a lot of the gear carries over if people decide they want to do trad stuff, and if it seems expensive, look at the cost of your local climbing gym membership. Odds are the year price is higher and you are left with nothing after 365 days passes so I prefer to spend money acquiring gear instead. Use mountain project’s maps to locate outdoor climbs close to you.

[@travishayes6037]

nice belt

[@kid5Media]

No hexes? How sad. And however did we manage to climb and live to tell about it without locking 'biners in the 70s?

[@OffBelay_]

That belt buckle though....

[@summitseekersexperience]

The ultimate trad piece

[@susedianinso]

Blind people listening: "This is what my set of nuts looks like"

[@summitseekersexperience]

🙌

[@GwyndolinBingham42]

Uh uh um

[@davidredshaw448]

How to build a rack these days? Try getting rich first.