What's Our Church's Growth Strategy?

[@danielandrews7561]

I'm 59 and went to Catholic school for 12 years, but I've been a zealous independent Christian since declining the sacrament of confirmation. As such, I've embarked on learning the great religions, gleaning the best from all. Bishop Barron has not only convinced me of the legitimacy of Catholicism as the prime authority regarding Jesus of Nazareth, but has unknowingly become my spiritual mentor. But because my spiritual education and growth (homilies) can be delivered via KZbin, I think the Roman Catholic Church will need to re-focus on the Eucharist to call the congregations. Thank you all!

[@6williamson]

Great Idea. The church has so many riches. Do you think God is leading you to find a few people and meet with them regularly and reflect among you the spirit that you have through the eucharist? You will be amazed how God will work!

[@Basilisk4119]

There is no "best" without Jesus. Amen.

[@andrewelliott1939]

Word AND Sacrament are required, not just Sacrament.

[@anamaria-zo5ym]

Amen.I think it's our nature to be curious to want to learn more,to find that true,to find us.We go on searching only to come back and fall on our knees asking for pardon to our Lord for the great truth and great love and mercy was always with us in us.Boy ohh boy how we make it so hard on ourselfs,but if it took going and searing to make us realize who we are what is the true our amazing faith,I guess it was worthed...I hope not to late for some.Glory be to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

[@andrewelliott1939]

@Openeyes Well, Catholics should get this. But you cannot use the example of the monks faithfully preserving the texts of the Bible as an argument that (all) Catholics do get this. My experience of my fellow Catholics is that they are generally very ignorant of the Bible (content, structure, styles of writing), never read it (only hear it at Mass) and quite likely don't even own one. They are so often just sacramentally focussed or even obligation focussed (ie they turn up because they are obliged to).

[@ralphauer150]

This talk is so appropriate for me. Being divorced and remarried. After not going to church for 60+ years. I have met with a priest. Our goal is he is reaching out to the discoes. To allow my being, able to go to confession and communion. Today is 11/21/22. Hope for approval in a couple days 🙏

[@chris.h.9227]

.~Don't give up, the Lord can open any door! I studied the Bible for 20+ year's and was moved spiritually to another Church & Baptised, Love where I am in my Worship, (Hillsong United) & Love checking in with all my fellow Christians to hear a good sermon & keep watch on the World,! Keep the faith Brothers and Sisters, Through Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour to the Glory of God our Heavenly Father, Amen!~.

[@antonn_]

I wish you luck on your journey to becoming a better Catholic, my friend.❤

[@ralphauer150]

12/1/2022. The Diocese has given their APPROVAL. I have received confession. Will be attending SATURDAY evening mass, and Communion. 🙏🙏🙏last plenary indulgence 🙏🙏

[@diedertspijkerboer]

This is a suggestion from a non-Catholic with 30 years of agnosticism and being proselytised under the belt, so probably not everyone will agree: 1. Make friends with someone first of all and learn to have talks about the deeper subjects. 2. Dare to be vulnerable and there's a good chance that people will be vulnerable back. 3. Instead of explaining why there's suffering, relate an experience of suffering and how (your) faith helped. My example: after my parents died, it helped to have someone experienced to guide us and to have a format for a funeral, so we didn't have to figure everything out ourselves. 4. Don't ever let your evangelising get in the way of the relationship. It is very unpleasant to have religion forced on you every time you talk to someone. Instead, trust that the subject will come up naturally. I hope that this helps.

[@6williamson]

terrific! This is spot on.

[@laurajanemiller8366]

I experienced number four many times. It always felt suspicious. My best friend of 30 years played the long game and simply witnessed to me by living the values of the church even when it was the hardest thing to do eg. not pursue IVF. That, my hunger for Truth in the social unrest of 2020, and bishop Barron led me to the Catholic Church. So happy to be here now.

[@patriciacharles2443]

This is really good advice.

[@thomasweber9384]

It's the bishop! This morning at mass ..with the hat ..and cap..

[@jamesberlin8217]

Very good. I would that when you talk with someone go into conversation that you may learn something.

[@stephrichards4611]

Thank you both for your podcast. I am an Anglican and studying for a Theology degree but I love listening to Word on Fire and especially Bishop Barron while I work at home. It was Bishop Barron who introduced me to Thomas Aquinas, Aristotle, Nietzsche and Descartes.

[@diedertspijkerboer]

Who is Neischter? I looked the name up online and couldn't find it.

[@stephrichards4611]

@@diedertspijkerboer Nietzsche! ☺

[@flintwestwood3596]

If you're anglican what are you doing here? Why don't you go to your own people? This is a Catholic video, which, remember, Catholic is of the "popish religion" and they "worship Mary" as you people say. What are you doing here? Go back to your playing with snakes and rolling on the floor baying like wolves and worshipping your David Koresh and Ellen G. White. Those are your theologians. Those are your prophets. Those are your people. Have more pride and integrity and go with your own people.

[@stephrichards4611]

@@flintwestwood3596 lol seriously?

[@diedertspijkerboer]

@@stephrichards4611 Yes, I'm familiar with him. I thought you meant him, but wanted to check.

[@toddgruber5729]

Another reason Bishop Barron is awesome…grow…don’t acquiesce. Love it!!!!!

[@imnotanalien7839]

I was baptized catholic, but grew up in a military family that moved every 12 months… my family was never connected to a church. But in my late 20’s I landed in a highly religious community. I have watched 3 generations of this church community and they are as tight together as when I landed here. They go to their neighborhood church and must go (by neighborhood) at a particular time. They never deviate. This way they become acquainted with one another. And after their Sunday church hour the women go into a room and discuss neighborhood women or families that might need assistance due to an illness, or pregnancy, etc. and each person signs up to bring a meal, or maybe babysit once during the week, etc. This is a way to encourage a sense of community within the church. I have no idea what the men do, but it’s ALWAYS neighborhood related things. This also brings children in the church together. They also participate with neighborhood Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts (their neighborhood). Of course there is more, including missionary work for young adults, as well as adults. But insisting on going to church by neighborhoods(at a particular time) I think is a brilliant way to strengthen a community around a church… people have an opportunity to make friends with church members. ♥️✝️

[@MightyMick88]

I'm 60-year-old man, my parents raised me a Catholic I went to a Catholic primary school, which I hated. There was one thing that my father always said to me and that was, look toward God for guidance, pray to him believe in him. I didn't understand all of what he was saying and I didn't dare ask what do you mean, I found out the hard way what he meant, and I'm glad I did, I found God,Jesus, the Virgin Mary and Joseph. My life has changed and I truly believe it's through the gift of the faith I was given as a child. Bishop Barron I always enjoy listening to you.

[@DarkAngel-cj6sx]

Catholics have to want to learn about their faith. It took me the pandemic to come back to church because I was a lukewarm catholic who was always in protestants churches most of the time. And of course practicing your faith is a must

[@6williamson]

Yay! Bring back to the Chuch everything you have learned. You know how to run bible studies; parishes love these. Advertise it widely and get some of the tapes from Ascension Press or Word on Fire. You will be amazed how trust in the Lord is infectious!

[@ralphauer150]

12/1/22 follow up from my earlier post. The Diocese has allowed me to come back to the Church . With special circumstances. Yesterday received confession .

[@sanjuanitamolina8605]

My daughter is volunteering in CCE program in her parish and has come across disheartening complacent people. We have actually discussed some of the strategies you have discussed. Unlike her parish, my parish is very involved, our priest is so community oriented and is always reaching out to the parishners in better serving and evangelizing. After Covid shutdown many are struggling, but we need to bounce of ideas to bring the fold in. Thank you for recognizing our needs to grow.

[@peterj6740]

That is not surprising and it is so easy to become discouraged because there are so many Catholics that are just nominal ; Catholics in name only and a huge number of submarine catholics who only surface twice a year at Easter and Christmas . There are others who come along to get their baby done in Baptism to escape Limbo and some want a Church marriage and others who want a Church burial ; so it is hatching ,matching and dispatching organism. But there is a sizeable minority who take their faith seriously because they love God . That is the reason to be encouraged to persevere and never grow tired in doing good to all and let the seed of faith grow in our hearts by prayer and meditation on the Word of God and being continually fed by the Sacraments . Then God will do the rest !

[@miguelzamores4415]

I agree with what you say bishop Barron!!

[@tonymoore5927]

As a chaplain in my discussion groups I often quote from the film 'Oh God'! This film throws up lots of interesting subjects for example " I don't belong to any religion" God's answer " Neither do I". In the film God discusses suffering, unbelievers, greed, kindness and more. Using these subjects can elicite a lively discussion. It makes the attendees think and (hopefully) read a verse or two from The Bible.

[@proverbios1820]

Thanks and blessings Bishop Barron! To your suggestion to priests I would just add: homilies. Sometimes it’s quite clear that homilies aren’t prepared or thoughtfully prepared. God bless! 🙏🏼

[@6williamson]

As a lay person, I always ask myself, "what can I do within such a situation?" St Paul tells us that as lay people, we can pray about such a situation, perhaps meet with some likeminded lay people and start by telling the priest that you are praying for him daily to help in in his ministry. Perhaps help him in things he thinks are needed, invite him to dinner and give generosity and support. You will be amazed how this can energize our priesthood. Trust in the Lord and God will work out amazing things. May take some time, but have seen great success quite a few times.

[@mildredbernadas8639]

Great! Our parish priest, workers and parishioners need to listen to this. On my part, i should exert conscious effort to bring one family back to Church the soonest possible time. Thank you Bishop. Thank you Brandon.

[@CharbelRizk23]

Thank you Brandon and Bishop Barron for this crucial and timely talk. I think the work of Dr. Pierre Alain Giffard published in his blogpost "la croissance de l'eglise" and the work of Father James Mallon through Divine Renovation are good examples of using strategy under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to grow parishes and turn them from "maintenance to mission". I hope this discussion continues for the sake of the Church globally.

[@danserrano100]

Wonderful, simply beautiful principles. Do good avoid evil. Life is good and therefore must be protected as good.

[@hectorosifeko1252]

Always lovely and edifying listening to you Bishop Robert Barron. In my lived experience, I truly believe that being kind (loving) is the most important and actually the first that can help an individual achieve nos. 1, 2 and 3. May God’s grace continually keep you dear Bishop Robert Barron.

[@ds294]

A big job for us. I signed on to the army of Jesus so these are my marching orders. I am happy praying is one of the four evangelizing pillars. My weakness is the formation of an answer to the response 'there is no God' and ' can't believe in a God who allows war, killing etc'. Prayer is very good. The trick is not to give up because it seems like nothing is happening until it happens I think old fashioned catechism lessons are needed. You Bishop Barron answer the most basic questions. I think we hunger for the truth even if it is hard to hear.

[@jeffb1275]

Reading Edward Feser's book "The Last Superstition" changed my world view and gave me ammo for arguing the existence of God. After reading a few more books on the same topic, I look forward to engaging on the existence of God. Catholics have all the best arguments and refutations. The idea that the universe would create itself, out of nothing and for no reason, is indeed a superstition. Recommend that book, and more power to you, brother/sister.

[@lrcashen1953]

Thank you Bishop Barron for all you do in God’s name & helping us sinners to become the saints that God intended us to be. Praying for the grace from the Holy Spirit & the Holy Catholic Church to lead me on the right path everyday. Thank you Blessed Mother for your intercession in fulfilling God’s plan. God Bless you.🙏🤗💕

[@ronnestman4696]

God bless Bishop Barron and Word on Fire ministries 🙏❤️✝️ I am truly blessed by their efforts ❤

[@diane4983]

Return to tradition. Every Priest and lay person should watch the Catholicism series Bishop Barron put out. The beauty! The sacredness. The mystery The truth. I'm telling you nothing this world has to offer can touch it...."doing" Catholicism the way Jesus intended and not placating to the world view is what must happen. I love being Catholic so much. I visit many churches and I sadly wonder sometimes if the Priest and parishioners know they are Catholic. Many priests are amazing. I have been blessed to find many y LEADERS who tell the truth and challenge us to learn and grow. Our parish Priest is a true wise Father. We are blessed he continues to strive to be holy. It's evident in how our parish is managed and the love and time taken through entire mass. He's not rushing through. A Priest should never apologize for going long or saying too much. What he is doing during the mass is the most important thing anyone can do on this earth. If he doesn't know it believe it and address it as such how do you think the parish will be...and then to bring someone new to church. Yes I have invited a Co worker to my church...the church in next town I would not. I don't think it should be that way

[@rodbizzell2334]

I was raised Assembly of God but have recently attended Catholic Mass on Saturday evenings in Central Alabama. After approximately three months not a single person has greeted or even spoken to me other than the "Peace be with you" segment. So much for evangelism...

[@MatthewBerkus]

That is probably a combination of shyness and lingering pandemic concern. On the flip side, have you gone up to anyone?

[@ck1578]

I am an adult convert to Catholicism from an evangelical background - and yes, I have rarely been greeted at a Catholic church - an usher saying hello - yes, but the typical evangelical church a greeting involves much more than a "Hello" - some even have a Welcoming Committee - reaching out and really trying to connect to the new face. I like that - but I prefer to come and go and not be noticed. That is a defect on my part. Last year I was away for a time and going to a new Catholic church and at the end of mass they asked for visitors to raise their hand and after they said their name and where they were from the whole congregation sang a welcome song. I never raised my hand - I did not want them singing for me - again, my defect. But overall, most Catholic churches lack in the welcoming area when compared to evangelical churches. I believe I have heard Brandon and/or Bishop Barron mention this in other podcasts. As I said, I have usually been greeted by an usher or bulletin handing out person - but that is like the Seinfeld episode where the bank promised a greeting or they would give you money and Kramer thought he had them. And this predates CoVid.

[@MatthewBerkus]

@@ck1578 The same thing happened to me. I have been at my Parish for a little over a year and I still barely know anyone. However, as I get more involved and as the pandemic wanes, that is changing. Also, some of it is an age thing. Many of the parishioners are older. Give it time. I agree, we could be doing a better job at hospitality.

[@6williamson]

This is a HUGE need for Catholics to become more open and inviting. We are involved in our parish and it is a recurring theme in our ministry. No deep theological discussion but say hello to the person in the next pew and ask them how they are doing. Poco a poco, little by little, we are beginning to see a change for the better. Trust in God that He can bring anything we need to a parish.

[@ds294]

I am so sorry for your experience. And perhaps that is our problem as practicing Catholics, we attend church and the we feel we have done our duty and no more is required. I will remember your comment and will reach out to a new person at church. As an aside, I left the church for four years and no one contacted me to ask why. I was deeply hurt. Jesus nudged me a few times to return ti church. I did and fell into a deeper devotion. I remember how beautiful it was coming back. Don't give up. Maybe you have to say hello to the steady parishioners and introduce yourself to them. When we get set in our ways we ossify and can't move out of our staid ways. Your presence will open up others to the love of Christ within you! Shake up your fellow parishioners!

[@undertheheavens]

The oddest thing that I've found since converting in 2007 is this: we send guys off to get "educated" in theology, they get ordained, and then they rarely teach in the parish. Well, they are the ones with the education. Why don't they teach? Most homilies are so awful. It's sad. It's 50 shades of "be more nice." Just a thought, I'm very impressed right now with Orthodox Judaism. Look at Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik, Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, Rabbi Hayyim Angel, Rabbi Joshua Berman. They all focus/ed on solid education, and they are now flourishing. The Catholic Church in America needs authentic Ressourcement.

[@dónalÓNiadh]

I think the way forward is approachable, engaging priests and teachers who educate people about the Faith. Far too many people in today's society are ignorant of the Church's teachings, and the love that God has for them. This, it has to be said, is down to the Church's complacency in addressing this issue. For far too long, Faith was driven by fear rather than educating, and opening the hearts and minds of young people. In my experience, those who I speak to about Catholicism either see religion as vengeful or kooky, and working outside of reason and any sense of rationality. I wish schools would engagingly teach the works of not only the Bible and greats of the Church, but also the wonderful apologists that represent our Faith. Added to that, I do firmly believe that the Church should not let others take our place in representing the poor, and those who suffer the most in our economy. Young people today are struggling to make ends meet, and nees to know that the Church supports them.

[@6williamson]

Sounds like you have a ministry to the poor. Grab a few people and do it together and pray about what you are doing. It's amazing what happens when we trust in God and those whom he speaks to.

[@freehorse7299]

Good video, thanks and God bless you!

[@catholicbiblestudies]

This is great. I think there is an excellent blueprint of sorts here: the lay faithful have a real task to evangelize the people around them through their words and actions, while the priests need to help with the evangelization primarily through the liturgy. Of course the priests can also do their best to bring people into the family, but there is so much to be said about being the principle liturgist. If the lay faithful see that their pastor truly understands the Eucharistic sacrifice - reverence throughout, zealous preaching, breaking open the Word of God - then I think the laity will be much more inclined to invite their friends/family. Not to mention that the lay faithful themselves will be further evangelized through the liturgy. Thank you, Bishop Barron. We were commissioned to make disciples of all nations. Let's get back to the basics of being devoted to the Word, to fellowship, to the Breaking of the Bread, and to the prayers (Acts 2:42).

[@6williamson]

Studies show that the enthusiasm of the laity can have good effects on our leadership.

[@donmiro7780]

Amen about the centrality of the liturgy as the priest's main focus

[@anneturner2759]

The energizer Bobby. Love you.

[@Molllielynnpauuce275]

There's 1 faith 🙏 praying for you bishop 🙏

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Great content as always, Bishop. Prayers for you and your ministry!

[@2x_espresso]

Great initiative. Here's a couple of other thoughts and ideas, for the internal motivation to attract more people: - Show how you can provide a stable and generative moral foundation for young people and for everyone. Use Dante's Inferno and Purgatory as a guide for the practical consequences of Vices and Virtues. Use the language of Reason and Greek Philosophy and Myth to open up this world. - Rebalance the theology with more of the Orthodox/Old Catholic elements. Show people the glowing inner, immanent experience of the Divine, that could make life an incredible journey full of meaning. Take back the language of participation in the spiritual forces for good (again borrow from f.ex. Dante). - Have a basic focus that the faith and the tradition will be a richer life with more substance, a more positive experience, and also a more grounded and true connection to reality vs. an endless and exhausting chasing of evasive goals in a purely secular life. - For some; make the argument that it will balance your brain hemispheres and create a whole different harmony (as well as avoiding the countless perils of left hemisphere dominance in your brain). - Focus on the Journey, and again the abundance of Inner Richness that comes with it!

[@astudent9905]

On the feast of Christ the King I happened to attend a Latin Mass and was moved by the reverence of its presentation. It was not the Latin that impressed me but the people, the altar servers, the priest, the kneeling for Communion, the offering if incense etc..

[@6williamson]

Trust, obedience and reverence of the Lord is always infectious!

[@lordhonksworth7701]

You've made a very good and helpful distinction here. When I've attended the Tridentine Latin Mass it is the reverence of the people that has impressed me more than the mass itself.

[@dominusnox8231]

TLM is an entirely different experience than NO. TLM is a beautiful, God-centered rite that engages the soul.

[@praxidescenteno3233]

I LOVE You all ! Thanks You God Father for all beloveds at eternity and than never fault You! 🥲🤣☃️☃️💌🍳🍇😜🥴💐💘🍝🍝🍟☕🍿🍼✨🤭👑🌮❄️🌭🍩🥰😉🔥😇👼😍😋🤗😝🍞😘

[@JohnTwoFive]

Love reminders that we are to be likeminded (Romans 15:5; Philippians 2:2)

[@maciejpieczula631]

From what I know, from my confirmation group (2007) of around 30 in my church I am one of only two that still attend Church on a regular basis. I have since reflected back on what we learned leading up to our confirmation and I cannot remember anything. Perhaps at the time I was able to recite the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit, but had no real grasp on them. As important as increasing the number of people is, I think increasing quality right now is more important. What I mean by quality is making sure that those who still attend Church, or who are getting ready for confirmation for example, have a robust prayer and spiritual life as well as making sure that they have a firm grasp on the many parts of the faith and can explain those various parts at a pretty high level. Even those who attend mass every Sunday, from my experience, are very often incable of even explaining the very basics of the Catholi faith. For example: in my parish, our priest decided to do catechiesis on Monday nights. He chose to explain the mass. He asked us (maybe a group of 30) "why is communion body and blood?" No one in the group was able to answer him (except for me to a degree, I wasn't able to give the full answer he wanted though), and these are the people that have attended mass their whole lives, some of them for over 60 years. My point here is simply if one doesn't even know the basics of the faith than how can one be expected to defend the faith or evangalise? let alone stay in the faith if they can't see a reason to do so. Thankfully as Bishop Barron and others have made great strides and good efforts in the evangalising sphere. Another thing I know is that even those that still attend mass every Sunday very rarely do any studying of the faith on their own. The most exposer they have to the faith is 1 hour a week in Church, and as great as the Catholic mass is it's primary function is to offfer right praise not catechiesis. But knowing that most people only get that one hour a week of exposure, I think, that the homilies have to be taken to next level. Let the priest or deacon use a slide show presentation if it would benefit the homily. And pick topics for homilies that actually address the concerns of the people, and things that embolden their faith. One way of doing this is putting a drop box for questions that people have so they can ask questions anamously. This will allow parish priests to see what concerns do people have with regards to the faith, what level of development do the parishioners really have and have it also be a Socratic dialouge. Which brings me to what I think is a very crucial element in evangalising: Historical reliability. Pope Benedict XVI said if the Christian faith is not a historical fact than we shouldn't believe in it. Jordan Peterson in his recent conversation with Peter Kreeft said that he had not yet made the leap from historical myth to religious faith. The only thing I can think of that could change that is if he became convinced that the Christian story of Christ was not a mere story but a historical fact. I think many people are stuck where Jordan is stuck. I'll end with this. There are finally many great Catholic resources for us but if you're not sure where to start my personal recommendation is the following two books 1) The Case for Jesus: The Bibilical and Historical Evidence for Christ by Brant Pitre, afterword by Bishop Barron. 2) Why We're Catholic by Trent Horn. Neither one of these books is too exhaustive, both are easily accessible and are great starting points. Proceed from there.

[@andresteves4979]

Just be the ray of the inviting light and kindness to all... God bless... luceat lux...

[@marilinaimperati525]

Our Bishop here in CT just sent all churches a letter stating we had no priest ordained this year. 😢

[@mosesameh7337]

BE KIND!

[@Carlos-ln8fd]

Honestly think being kind is by far the most important one. I've seen so many forums of disafiliated people and, for many of them (if not most of them), their main reason for rejecting religion is that religious people are mean or judgmental. I'm also thinking of writers like Christopher Hitchens who would dedicate entire chapters of his books to religious people doing bad things. The response people in the Church should take is extremely obvious. Practice what you preach.

[@jeffb1275]

I have never witnessed a Christian badgering a non-believer. But I see the reverse regularly. Any time a believer speaks up, actually. Atheists commonly label Christians as mean because the Christian has beliefs. Atheists don't like that. They have no evidence, but that doesn't stop them from attacking anyone with a belief. Hitchens was not mentally sound. He simply had visibility in the crowd of people insisting black is white "because we say so" and God is untrue because "we don't want to believe it". What if being kind means concealing the truth? Because that's what atheists want to establish: If you disagree, then you are mean and hateful. That is their tactic to guilt Christians into remaining silent.

[@Carlos-ln8fd]

@@jeffb1275 I'm really happy that is your experience. It is not really mine at all. I know so many people who have moved away from the Church because someone from the organization was mean or hypocritical towards them. It is just very sad.

[@williamckama8470]

Hey Brandon🤙🤙🤙thank you

[@patrickturner91]

God doesn’t call us to spread the word to “those who will listen.” Which is very much the mentality of so many of us today. We all must be better about bringing the word of God to EVERYONE. It doesn’t have to be us preaching, but us behaving in a very Catholic way when we engage with people. How we decide to live is in a sense bringing the word of God to our loved ones.

[@danielandrews7561]

"Preach the word of the Lord -- only if necessary use words."

[@6williamson]

As a former agnostic, perhaps I am just dull, but when I would see catholic's good actions, I would just think they are wonderful people. It took a high school girl, when I was joking, "let's all pray to the sun god," to turn around in her seat in front of me and say, "what about the one True God." That started my faith journey. We should all have the gumption of a little high school student.

[@6williamson]

@@danielandrews7561 While often attributed to St. Francis, he never said this. He preached everywhere and often and was energized by sharing the word of God. If you are rude and horrible, you will certainly work against the Word of God, however.

[@brendamyc3057]

I wish people would stop using this quote as a means to not say anything. If you truly believe this quote you are actually speaking louder by giving witness to the faith by actually living it.

[@sophiabooksuk6921]

Great talk

[@pcram111]

100% on the right plan in 2023 is to grow our church, base, mission, outreach, and be a driving force in our secular world. Time is of the essence!

[@Sunicarus]

To have a discussion about growth in the church and not mention the growth seen in TLM communities shows a lack of seriousness about the subject. I say this with great respect and love for Bishop Barron.

[@lordhonksworth7701]

The reason for this is possibly that Trads dramatically overestimate the growth of the TLM community (which, despite having an internet presence vastly out of proportion to its actual size, is tiny in the grand scheme of things). Moreover, it's not the silver bullet that TradCaths seem to think it is. It's definitely more reverent than your average suburban NO (something which Bishop Barron constantly talks about), but tends to come along with a very insular, hyper-integralist and quasi-schismatic mindset. Trads also underestimate the sense in which they are part of devoted intentional communities. Just say the TLM were re-imposed as the Ordinary Form of the mass, the priests who are currently doing lackluster NO Masses would then be delivering lackluster TLMs. Don't get me wrong, I myself attend a TLM and think it has its strengths, I just don't believe it's the solution.

[@Sunicarus]

@@lordhonksworth7701 I hear you and I completely agree with everything you said. But I disagree with your conclusion. However big or small the actual growth of the TLM is it's certainly not losing catholics and that's reason enough to see what it's doing right. The most beautiful NO masses tend to be in parishes that offer the TLM, that's not a coincidence. There's something to be learned here.

[@lordhonksworth7701]

@@Sunicarus fair comment. I agree with your point that where a parish celebrates both forms, the reverence of the TLM tends to 'bleed over' into the NO (which I believe was Benedict XVI's goal).

[@anamaria-zo5ym]

Let be said ,I agree fully tha St John Paul ll is the first great evangelist. The fullness of the true faith.Praise God. Thanks so much I pray and pray and pray more,no regrets.

[@undertheheavens]

It's been interesting to watch a lot of solid Roman Catholics switch to either one of the Eastern rites or join the AO. The Roman Rite is currently a mess.

[@brendamyc3057]

The parish loves a person who is coming to register to the parish but if you come seeking spiritual healing or advice or if you want some questions of faith answered, they simply see you as a trouble maker and a problem and they won’t touch you with a ten foot pole. How can we change this? If a person can’t seek support and healing from the Church we just prevented a large chunk of the mission.

[@jeffb1275]

Of the hundred and more comments on this page, this one speaks the truth. Most of the people writing are concerned about details of their personal disagreements with church policy. The effort to grow the church is focused solidly on the existing parishioners. The problem stems from generations, if not centuries, of exclusive concern for cradle Catholics and the stability of the existing parish base. Protestantism runs circles around Catholicism at attracting new members. Catholicism relies on membership traditions that, through neglect, now serve to drive people away. They are only suited for fallen away cradle Catholics seeking to return. The RCIA programs are run by cradle Catholics who haven't the faintest idea what is on the mind of those coming in out of the cold. People who have never attended mass haven't the faintest notion or concern about liturgy. Liturgy is not the problem or the solution. I have been through two RCIA programs and neither one ever allowed newcomers to ask any questions or talk about their journeys. Both of them had more members than newcomers at the meetings, and those people took up much of the time with their own concerns. The utter failure of the Church to reach out to the uninitiated is scandalous. The overriding concern of cradle Catholics for their own comfort is telling.

[@JohnR.T.B.]

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." ~ Isaiah 55: 8-9 ~ 🤔

[@brendamyc3057]

I was also told my joy in the Lord was unprofessional and my desire to build relationships was childish. I was told not to talk to people.

[@brendamyc3057]

And that’s what happens if you try anything against the culture. I am aware it’s to be expected but that still doesn’t make it easier or fun on some days.

[@praxidescenteno3233]

I'm experienced in get back flying with Godself alike My broken Christ

[@bvokey8842]

We’re going through this in my diocese as are so many others. My pastor recently retired. There are no replacements and we’ve had no new ordinations to the priesthood in the past year. We recently merged churches due to necessity. Your answers are on par with the letter my Bishop wrote to our parish even down to the scriptural examples used. I agree prayer is real and impactful. But in terms of our corporeal responsibility none of your solutions addresses the possibility that Church leadership, past and present, is a culprit for this decline. I don’t know if this approach (from top down, not specifically from you Bishop) is a deflect or if it’s out of ignorance. Why have we lost dominance over the scientism and materialism that has taken over the secular world during the last several hundred years? Why have we taken a back seat? Our whole approach to the world needs to change and that starts at the top with our leadership. As far as I can tell that is the elephant in the room which we’re not addressing. Of course there are many problems within the Church but those in my estimation all extrapolate downstream from that. To put it differently, there is a greater question that is not being answered. We are all paying the price for not answering it.

[@allthenewsordeath5772]

As far as I can tell over the last few decades most of the men who have been getting promoted within the hierarchy our company men, so wile they have skills in their own right, for the most part they are not the leaders which we need right now.

[@danielandrews7561]

I, personally, see no incongruence between science and God -- to me, science only more fully reveals the incredible splendor of God's creation, and helps me appreciate everything that much more!

[@allthenewsordeath5772]

@@danielandrews7561 I don’t think the OP was implying a conflict between science and religion, rather the OP is stating that the church has not done enough to combat the rampant secularism and materialism of our current age, if we want to defeat this nihilistic secular materialistic culture that we find ourselves drowning in, our response must be a counterculture of life and spirituality.

[@6williamson]

Sounds rough. As a lay person, I like to ask, "what is God asking me to do in a given situation?" There are so many riches in the Church that sharing these with a small group is an amazing way to grow community and gain support. Its what we can do in own little way. Personally, I love scripture, so taking one of the many courses offered by Ascension Press, World on Fire, the intentional disciple course mentioned by B. Barron or the like and grabbing a few people in your parish for weekly prayer and sharing is a great way to build community. I am horribly introverted, but if I can do it, anyone can. I'm sure your parish would love to help publicize and you can talk to people as they come into church and ask them what they would like to do. If you can get five or six people to join you, its all you'll need. The courses and questions make it quite easy and the Church has tons of these of very high quality. It just takes people to take a deep breath and jump in the deep end. I'll say, you will never never regret trusting in God and taking the leap! It's our church to make it live or die

[@bvokey8842]

@@6williamson You’re speaking to ground-level things which is great I’m happy for you but for Church leadership to only focus on what they think we the laity can do to make changes and seemingly ignore the grander more consequential problem of how we should influence the world in understanding Christianity from a meta more base layer cosmic framework of how the world ought to be framed seems patronizing or at the very least a confused and lacking take. Perhaps the leaders of the Church are aware starting at the top which it needs to start at the top with the one who stands upon the rock but by the lack of fruits produced (the severe recession of Christianity and the dominance of the secular materialist rationalistic world) I don’t see that they are aware, or truly understand the problem and how to combat it. Again I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong in your individual approach but I’m arguing that there is much more to it. Hope that makes sense and I hope you take care.

[@dr.kathleenruddy1734]

Catholics can immediately distinguish themselves by being polite. That gets everyone's attention.

[@growtocycle6992]

Is it considered polite to share your faith?

[@marypinakat8594]

@@growtocycle6992 In sharing Faith or otherwise let Christians be polite first marking their identity. Be polite and kind, and share the Faith. Only then it's gonna work.

[@williamckama8470]

Nice Barron, wow🤙🤙🤙

[@ambkhoury564]

Thanks Bishop , I follow you quite often in earnest. I am a Palestinian Christian born in Bethlehem within the Syriac Orthodox Church and grew up in a Catholic School which made me a Catholic really. But I also wish all Christians could be simply Christians and revert to Jesus’s teaching and life here in This Holy Land and the wonderful human values he brought or emphasized to our world, values so sirely needed in our world today. I strongly believe in evangelism but evangelism of these same values I mentioned above. Evangelism as practiced by the church should first inquire more deeply into its purpose and what agenda it adopts. So far Christianity is not doing well because it does not project the courage, honesty and purity people expect. On the other hand a blind kind of Christian Zionism is growing. It seems to me nothing grows unless subjugated to a certain politically generated ideology that is raising havoc not inly in Palestine. With my deep respect

[@brendamyc3057]

Send us all copies of the Catholic Answers Survival Guide. It helps support the message of the Bible.

[@nathanngumi8467]

Word.

[@commercialrealestatephilos605]

Altar rails, waiting an extra 10 minutes to receive holy communion from a Priest or Deacon. Those two changes would go a long way.

[@peterj6740]

It is not that simple ........

[@kristenmoll9408]

I would like altar rails back, or at least altar servers with the pans under when receiving.

[@dominicmeehan8322]

@@kristenmoll9408 and what you like you should get!

[@dominicmeehan8322]

How?

[@MM22272]

Could you kindly explain what the altar rails would do? If I'm the last person in a long queue for communion, I must still wait my turn which provides more time to pray, but I don't know that my extra prayer time would outweigh the effects of the Eucharist. Could you thoughtfully comment on that?

[@savinggift158]

Well in England they pray for vocation but not holy chaste marriages that will bring forth children and life They should be praying for both No baptisms or babies in years No marriages in years It’s going to change in Jesus ‘s mighty name

[@erric288]

Liturgical reform is definitely needed. Things like altar rails, ad orientem worship, orthodox preaching, the use of the organ over piano, gregorian chant or vernacular plainsong especially for the dialog within the mass (but also the propers of course), traditional hymnody, use of incense and bells for Sunday masses, expensive ornate vestments, marble/stone altars, promoting veiling for women and overall more formal dress for all, but especially men, the list goes on (much of what was called for in VII). Also there does need to be more focus on the communal aspect of parish life where we notice if someone didn't come to mass and we have programs for those who are curious and want to learn more about the faith in an informal setting that is welcoming. If we do all that we show the world we have a serious, genuine, deeply rooted, and ancient faith that also demands much of us in the universal call to holiness. I've found that for those that have fallen away they basically have been turned off by a lackluster liturgical experience, a grave lack of catechisis, and then being convinced by some basic arguments from new atheist types. These are folks that shouldn't be difficult to evangelize if we can meet then where they are and just answer their questions like the good Bishop says using Widdell's paradigm. The church also really needs to clean house when it comes to corruption, crime, and abuse (I know it has done some work). Yes it afflicts all human organizations, but we are held to a higher standard. Folks judge our faith based on how it affects the people who profess it. If it looks like our faith doesn't actually create a metanoia in its followers, then they can dismiss it. The Vatican has to use its power of criminal justice to not just defrock or censure in some slap on the wrist kind of way, those who commit these crimes. It needs to put them on public trial and prosecute them, and imprison them. Excommunication should be much more prevalent for public, obstinate, grave sin. This kind of scandalous sin does tremendous damage, that our Lord said such a person should have a millstone tied around their neck and thrown into the sea! Also parish life should be much more family focused as they should be their core demographic. Not enough attention is given to developing the domestic church and how to lead holy lives as busy parents. Much of the current apostasy comes from this secular home life.

[@ck1578]

Yes, veil those women and encourage them to stay home with their quiver full of arrows. Sorry for the snark, but I just can't help it.

[@erric288]

@@ck1578 I think that veils signify the holiness and mystery of women. But the veils are only worn during the liturgy. I don't ascribe to restrictive gender roles. Women working is a very good thing for society. Even in the case of a marriage with children, if the wife is in a better position to be the breadwinner, the husband should stay home (also taking into account each spouse's temperaments and desires). This isn't the 1950s.

[@ck1578]

@@erric288 Thank you for your thoughtful response. I should not have hit send in the first place or spent 10 minutes reading responses. Happy Thanksgiving!

[@joncannaday250]

For what its worth, I would reach out to video game publishers (Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, ect...) and see if they can put a preaching priest with a loop of one of Bishop Barron's Homilies as a background character in a video game like Grand Theft Auto.

[@6williamson]

My wife loved your idea!!

[@brendamyc3057]

We could put all priest cars in the game The Pope mobile The Ferrari The Taurus The Honda

[@MatthewBerkus]

We should definitely be prepared to answer questions and objections, but if the situation lends itself, we should ask why X thing is a deal-breaker. What was it about that thing that led you away from the Church or prevented you from coming? I think we tend to assume the answer to "why," but we should not be so hasty. We should be asking "why" to foster a deeper discussion about the person's view of faith.

[@praxidescenteno3233]

As in the fiery furnace at Bible pure Angels

[@marypinakat8594]

*"Catholicism is a universal religion; it's meant to go out to the whole world."* (2: 48 - 2: 53) - BISHOP ROBERT BARRON

[@6williamson]

yup.

[@mikewilliams235]

And can I keep myself coming to Church? Also we all have to be filtered through the Parable of the Sower.

[@mrmessenger5584]

Use what excited people before: art & drama! Master new media & public relations techniques, as politics & entertainment does...Find the pain points like skillful salespeople...We must go where people are hurting the most!

[@praxidescenteno3233]

I LOVE all don't be worry all My pain and suffer offered for they

[@jeromep976]

As for me and my family, we will worship God in his Holy Catholic Church. I will pray for those who have left and those who do not believe. When given the chance I will share my faith, but people walk through those church doors under their own locomotion, or with the help of 6 pallbearers.

[@Sophie_Uma]

What about praying for a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit? The word must be confirmed by acts of power, like in the original church. Then unbelievers will believe and people will go back to church. There is a broken world out there

[@johnmartin4650]

Thank you for your words…….you shine in the dark

[@nixonjohn934]

Fr. I ask this in a spirit of learning my own faith. Could you please kindly clarify what exactly it means by evangelizing in the fullness of faith. Thank you. May God keep you blessed. AMEN.

[@Lcoreyful]

When he says "fullness of faith", he is referring to the Catholic Church. Protestants may have faith in Jesus, Jews and Muslims believe in God, but the Catholic Church has the complete truth about faith and Jesus and God. As opposed to only part of the truth. Evangelizing in the fullness of faith means bringing people to the Catholic faith.

[@tplanit]

As much as I'd love to invite friends to Mass, our services are viewed by our visitors as a cringeworthy, pop/folk music festival event that is almost a parody of itself. The visitors we have at baptisms treat it as a joke and never return. I've mentioned this at parish meetings in the past. Can anyone recommend a video link to a good Novus Ordo?

[@brendamyc3057]

The people need spiritual direction and healing from the Clergy. We need the healing from the every day struggles of life.

[@ejfantone]

There is hope

[@michaelbrennan8675]

"Dare we hope that all will be saved" = There is definitely a high statistically probability that the vast majority of people are going to Heaven.....so.....don't worry so much Bishop. Just do the best you can.

[@praxidescenteno3233]

I ever was wanting to be heared since child i started alike but now when must People could Hear me i only LOVE when i rest alone. And wish the Best to all no matters what. For me all works as much Godself could help us. Cause when we didn't get prepared our Hearts clean He can't live in there. SO much prayers stay going on and the time Will Say all. For some People be in Grace get scared they alike they could be hurted or as me. They thought suffer is not be with Godself but is. SO now is Jesús Christ as King at Heaven caring of all! SO i can clarify their minds but i think for they is much better the truth and me the test. I can Lost People without Godself. I must pull they near Godself as much as possible than their scares. Theyself much found the way back to Godself.

[@matthewporter5048]

thanks!

[@one_b]

I have a handful of close male friends who have fallen away but have expressed desires to return. Each of them is married and has said they will lose their wives/families if they go back and I tend to believe them, since I know these women too. What are people supposed to do in situations like that where turning back to the church may mean upending and destroying their family? It isn't easy to just tell them to trust in the Lord though I have certainly tried.

[@MM22272]

Great question. I'd suggest that these men begin with family prayer and perhaps prayers of deliverance from spirits of defiance that seemingly animate their spouses. Would it be permissible for these men to exercise their individual freedom to go to Church without imposing it upon their spouses? It may help their confidence if they would know and believe that, for better or worse, God made these men the spiritual heads of their families, the domestic Church and their wives the hearts to inspire but follow the spiritual heads. They don't need to justify exercising their proper role, because it's God Who justifies them. Indeed, it's not even their choice.

[@anneturner2759]

Pray on that one , a lot , the devil has cried fair game on this one. He is the divider.

[@one_b]

@@MM22272 Without divulging too much I would say family prayer would be impossible; the wives, and in the case of one man, his step-children, have not had, do not have, and probably will not come to any kind of faith. I do not wish to call their marriages mistakes, but they are certainly challenging for my friends. Of course it should be permissible for them to exercise their own will and follow their heart to go to Church. It is another thing entirely when a spouse is vehemently against it. And I do not disagree with your statements about these men's proper roles in their families. But it is an argument that is easily dismissed with hand waving by somebody who fundamentally disagrees with the validity of the claims.

[@MM22272]

@@one_b That is fairly said. My hunch is that these men would need some moral support and would benefit from a men's prayer group. These men could also practice their faith quietly, sublimely. and profoundly and therefore potently by which I mean they could, for example, fast, be unstintingly charitable, avoid complaining, always forgive and forebear, etc. By letting the Holy Spirit manifest His 12 fruits and 7 gifts from Confirmation, it's influence can be impressively arresting to the point of being regarded with awe. In short, these men could strive practically towards living highly moral lives.

[@SUZMIC1]

Well men are the leaders of their domestic church. Don’t let women lead! The man should pray and then act and the ladies will follow eventually because women love a strong loving head!!

[@alphacharlietango969]

Do we want to save souls or just grow numbers?

[@michellebryan8148]

Exactly.They're not preaching the TRUTH but the same DESSERT, DESSERT and more DESSERT. LAITY are doing more evangelizing than most church leaders are nowadays.That's the undeniable truth.

[@terezagrbin4357]

in Australia last 50 years I hardly see any children in churches, at Mass and now this children grown up and churches are empty and majority are elderly

[@petergrey4151]

I've always found priests' recitation of the liturgy often sounds like they're competing in some kind of speed trial - they rattle through it at such a rate there's no chance to engage with the content.

[@bernard4459]

I will do absolutely everything in my power to pursue theosis and Grace. If you could help us young guys with youth groups to meet young God fearing women I will sire 1000 Catholic children. I have the means and resources to support this but can't find a woman who will love God even within the parish. This is the number one biggest issue in politics, culture, society right now. Help the young and we will help the parish. I believe it is in God's plan for us to be fruitful and multiply. If not, I am able to accept being a monk in the world. Jesus always wins. But that's my $.02 for how to build the parish.

[@MM22272]

Owing to radical individualism and it's feminist derivative, feminism, an early form of transgenderism (women wanting men's roles), many even devout women don't want children, families, matrimonial commitment or the sacrifice it would entail. This works well for population control advocates, but not for the Church. Imagine if a priest or bishop would proclaim from every pulpit that men and women should marry and not contracept their fertility. Such an egregious social heresy against feminism would get that priest in deep trouble. So, the status quo remains. May God bless you with a submissive wife. Home-schooled women may be so disposed and not diluted with vainglory.

[@bernard4459]

@@MM22272 Thanks for the compassion. Either way it goes, I'm ready to put the good fight in and stop evil even if that means my life will just be as a single man sitting in front of Planned Parenthood yelling with a sign all day. God is good and he always wins.

[@MM22272]

@@bernard4459 You're most welcome, fellow soul in Christ! Praise the Lord for your zeal and perseverance! Remember, too, to be open to the woman whom God sends you. She may have faults, some deeply seated, but God may have chosen you to be the anvil upon which God plans to make her a saint with your exercise of the seven spiritual works of mercy such as 1. Moral instruction, 2. Consoling the doubtful, 3. Comforting the morally wounded, 4. Moral correction, 5. Forgiveness, and 6. Forebearing her chronic faults. By doing this, God may at once make you a saint, all crowned with patience and heroic charity, dying for her while giving example to your children. Pro-life, do you say? That's wonderful too! In such company you should easily find a pious and devout Catholic spouse. Again, may Jesus surprise you with the wife of His planning. May you be open to His divine will as you trust in Him.

[@ds294]

Well and good sentiment. Don't sire a thousand but be a father to what God gives you. If you have financial resources, help single mothers and unwed pregnant women. And perhaps you can marry a woman who is n her own

[@bernard4459]

Thank you all will take your guidance to heart. Amen

[@DownhillDr]

Hi Brandon- late question, but your statement about your friend adding a member every year left me bated: how?

[@CatholicMartin]

Read Sherry Weddell's books

[@brendamyc3057]

Studied her books in school and we couldn’t find a single parish that put her methods into practice. The suggestions she gave were rejected at mine because that’s not how we’ve always done it.

[@undertheheavens]

Most of the fallen away Catholics that I know are honest. They don't go to Mass because they no longer believe in God. I talk to them about this. They simply disagree with my faith. Where I see God, they see nothing.

[@Debraishere]

I would argue that they (fallen away) never believed in God to begin with. I am not a Catholic. I am a Christian, who was raised in a godless home. I am almost 62 and I’ve spent the last 17 years since Jesus came to me in a dream at age 44 after years of searching for truth, trying to catch up. I cannot imagine at this point in my life falling away from God. I know God now, to the extent that I have been able to which is obviously the extent of which he desires me to know him. But I seek him every single day through all my ups and downs.

[@allthenewsordeath5772]

@@Debraishere Although as believers we cannot force God on others, I think it is within our ability to create conditions which are conducive to God revealing himself to people.

[@6williamson]

This is a great point and illustrates how apologetics can be useful if we take the time to educate ourselves. It's also great that you were able to have deep enough discussions that these points would come up. Fortunately, most of the arguments from the 'new atheists' are not very well constructed and easy to challenge. I am a molecular biologist and physician scientist and I have found my faith actually improves the innovation and overall the level of my science because it opens me to the marvelous ways of God's creation. Bishop Barron has many good videos on these arguments; if you want a good mathematician (they are always the smartest people on campus), you could check out John Lennox, emeritus professor at Oxford. Pretty powerful stuff. Will pray for you. peace

[@jimluebke3869]

So is there any role for Jeremiah, Ezekiel, or John the Baptist, in evangelizing today?

[@alld47hidrohnilougue31]

Why don’t parishes buy the homes around the church, rent them rent -to-own to young catholic families and report to credit bureaus to help build their credit?

[@lordhonksworth7701]

Because, as far as the church is concerned, it's still the 1950s, there are plenty of well-paying jobs with which young men can support a family, plenty of affordable housing in safe, stable neighbourhoods and heaps of virginal young women from which a man can select a wife and have a large family.

[@brendamyc3057]

Our parish tried to buy the neighborhood and move people. It didn’t work because we were in a poor section of the city and people were afraid to go there.

[@alld47hidrohnilougue31]

@@lordhonksworth7701 yeah well, that’s dumb of them

[@SUZMIC1]

Wonderful goals to get people to Holy Mass and being kind all good!! I just experienced a very sad situation as I was doing just this in my community of Pismo Beach Ca with our TLM. We grew last year to over 250 families a lot due to being open during covid. So our dedicated faithful families came but then our Bishop in Monterey on 1 week got upset about not everyone wearing a mask ( Sept 2021 ) and the very next week boom…done no more Mass 😢😢😢So all these good folks have been devastated!! And feel betrayed by our bishop even as we humbly asked him to reconsider because we were all good Catholics what was the problem. Unfortunately never heard a word never a compromise nothing. So sure us lay people try hard to save souls just as suggested when the Bishop blew us up? What’s that about with all due respect??

[@andycrause412]

What was the name of the book referenced concerning evangelism?

[@michaelbergfeld8751]

Well, i think i have thé good arguments...But I'm also a desastrous type: even the devil doesn't know what to do with me so he attacks me in many ways. I'm not fit for evangelisation. So i pray and comment on the internet. Then there are two mighty feelings: a supernatural love that circles. But also the attacks of satanic circles. You get used to them, when i was young i fought back, now i let the angels do the work, it's so much easier. Maybe in my position the best thing to do is sent the angels to evangelise. This is maybe a good advice to for re-evangilisation.

[@davemart8221]

To add to your comments on priests, the priest should be more relatable during the homily and trying to bring in examples that solidify the liturgy with real life examples

[@grmalinda6251]

You will find what you are seeking. You have the lords word on it. Ask the Holy Spirits guidance and do not judge others heart and soul. Man sees the outward God sees their heart.

[@DF-fo9bh]

Water down the faith and the liturgy and make the church more like the world 🎉 tell everyone they’re going to heaven and remove the confessionals. In all seriousness , Christ didn’t promise his church would have exponential growth before his return but did talk about great apostasy and those that would be saved are few

[@HappyG1lm0re]

I've always thought having a mass that is not a full hour would attract a lot more people too.

[@MM22272]

I've been to Eastern Orthodox masses, Jewish services, Sikh services, and Islamic services; and all of them are longer. If someone really loves another, he can't spend enough time with that person. So, the perception of mass being too long really reflects the degree of charity that one has for communing with God. Some people have, on the other hand, no problem communing with sports, videos, or other entertainments all day long, because that is their highest love. You will know them by their fruits. So, let's pray for those who love God very little.

[@wenshan9101]

When we view things as obligations, we will never appreciate the fact that they are intended to be gifts. If only we realise the sacramental grace issuing from the liturgy, we would lose all concept of time. It is afterall the eternal sacrifice!

[@YiriUbic3793]

The Latin Mass are pack with a lot of young people especially young men and those masses are pretty long yet they are full, catholic need true, the problem with modernist they want to imitated protestant shows, protestants have to do that because they have nothing to offer so the catholic church using those aberrant tactics is sad and pathetic

[@MM22272]

@@wenshan9101 True, however man's heart is fickle at best and prone to the seven deadly sins. So, if one can remain basking in gratitude and love, that's wunderbar: but the Commandments otherwise serve as moral safety nets to keep us from going off on our own.

[@allthenewsordeath5772]

Right because surely you cannot give the bare minimum of an hour a week two celebrate and be closer to the redeemer who sheds his blood for your grace?

[@danielferreiraaraujo8359]

My personal view: Young people cannot access theology as a serious source of knowledge. I think theology's absence in the university world is a big problem. Mainly in countries like Brazil, France, where the academy is Marxist-dominated or atheistic. So universities shape the minds of the coming generations that will take important functions in society, and they have few contact or interaction with religious knowledge (ok, I know conversion require a personal meeting with Christ), but I think Catholicism is always in the corner of the intellectual circuit. The internet has given a new voice to priests and helped to revive the catholic intellectual tradition and bring more people, but we need to evangelize universities.

[@rjskeptic5273]

The best arguments in the world for the existence of a god have all been refuted.

[@peterj6740]

Science deals with things that can be measured , observed and weighed and only knows it does not know when it discovers something not originally known . Science cannot speak with authority on God because he is beyond time and space and cannot either prove him or disprove Him . Unless God reveals Himself , He will forever remain unknown but becomes known when we open our hearts to Him in prayer .

[@rjskeptic5273]

@@peterj6740 Ah. The invisible friend argument. What is the difference between god revealing himself in prayer and a delusion? Also can you produce a scientific paper demonstrating anything existing outside space and time.

[@peterj6740]

@@rjskeptic5273 At the Big Bang time and space came into existence .The universe had a beginning and something came from nothing. And in this nothing there was no time or space . That was 13.8 Billion years ago and science can not get back to the nothing . There is more than meets the eye ! Only God can prove his own existence otherwise it will be forever hidden !

[@rjskeptic5273]

@@peterj6740 Not one cosmologist ever said something came from nothing. Produce your scientific paper or go away.

[@peterj6740]

@@rjskeptic5273 My apology , please enlighten me what the Cosmologists are saying , I must be hopelessly misinformed ?

[@kennybennett9973]

Liturgy is right. I do not want to bring someone to mass where I will be embarrassed. That tragically happened to me more than once. I will do ground work then I bring them to mass and they say never again.

[@erickpezoa883]

What are some Catholic apologetic books you guys recommend we read?

[@jakehuzyak8196]

A few: Introduction to Christianity by Joseph Ratzinger; The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth by Dr. Scott Hahn; On the Incarceration by St. Athanatius; Hail Holy Queen by Dr. Scott Hahn. That’s where I’d start, there’s definitely more but those really helped me becoming a true practicing and evangelizing Catholic again.

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

People forget that the Church predates corporations. It predates capitalism. The Church was, in some sense, the first corporation. The Knights Templar founded the first transnational bank. The Church has always operated a bit like a corporation. That's why corporations came to exist in the first place. People saw the Church's incredible international success and decided they should model their secular business interests on the Church, resulting in the first secular corporations. It's not the Church that behaves too much like a corporation; it's corporations that are behaving like the Church. I would say the real problem is cross-pollination. The Church inspired secular corporations, but this past century it feels more like secular corporations are inspiring the Church. The Church seems extremely risk-averse today. Its messaging feels very neutered and toothless. The Pope's tweets, I'm sorry to say, are vacuous and full of platitudes. Rarely does the Pope challenge the secular world. Instead he seems to tweet like a secular Dalai Lama. It's hard to tell the difference between his tweets and the tweets of any random new age mindfulness coach. The distinctly Catholic flavor is there, but the Pope is supposed to lead the laity, not just the clergy. He's supposed to admonish his followers. And he does, but his admonishments feel very safe. When's the last time the Pope, publicly, to a large audience or on a large platform, admonished laypeople to stop killing their gestating babies? The problem isn't the Church's strategy, the problem is the Church's message. That is, it's not the manner of the messaging, it's the message itself. It's practically nonexistent. The Church is afraid to speak its mind. So of course any marketing strategy is going to fail. You can't have a successful marketing campaign when you don't have anything to say, so all your "ads" are just flowery hot air. It doesn't matter how many marketing execs you hire to dress it all up in nice Corporate Memphis graphic design, if the message itself is vacuous. And it's no surprise the message is vacuous, considering what happens to priests who dare to publicly utter the truth of the Gospel or the basic countercultural tenets of the Catechism that our worldly, degenerate societies so disdain. Look at what the Bishop of Kerry did to Fr. Sean Sheehy just recently. Then you'll see why the Church isn't growing. Nobody wants to join a Church that has nothing of substance to say, and instead markets itself as basically a knock-off corporation with no real product. The marketing is vacuous, superficial, cheesy, and sterile, and the product looks pretty meaningless too if you haven't had it explained to you. And who's going to give it a chance to explain its transcendent value when the people selling it seem so desperate for secular, worldly approval? Where are all our ascetics? I see friars, who are supposed to be living lives of contemplation and charity, acting more like TikTok influencers, publishing blasphemous videos on social media, apologizing for the degenerate culture out of desperation for clicks and attention. People go to Church to be led and to be reconciled to God, not to become somebody's product. The relationship between a laity and a clergy that's afraid to challenge it is no different from the relationship between a consumer and the corporations competing for his attention and money. The Church's latest motto - "the customer is always right." This is what is going to need to change if the Church is to have any growth in the West in our brave new transhumanist future. But I have faith that it will. The Church will collapse in the West (it already has in many places), and the state will push it underground again, just like in the first couple centuries. The Church has basically lost its influence over Western political power. It can't (or won't) even stop the state from shuttering Churches, let alone stop the state from banning the exercise of the faith in the public square. So there's really nowhere else to go from here but underground. Which is frankly a good thing. It's decadence that brought us here. Getting too cozy with the scions of secular liberal democratic power. It's the same coziness that fostered abuse with impunity among the clergy. Now the Church is finally being pushed out of the corrupt arrangements it had with our secular overlords. This is a good thing. Even state persecution would have a silver lining. Going back to basement masses would induce a revival of authentic faith. And from the ashes I'm sure a stronger Church will emerge, assuming we don't already occupy the last days of history (which I'm sure most devout Catholics will not deny is a real possibility, looking at everything that's happened these past few years).

[@adamvarley238]

I’ve been away from the church for over 2 years now and not one person has asked where my family and I have been - IMO the Canadian branch are anaemic - I’ve tried finding a place to partake in reconciliation and I can’t find a church to offer this on a regular schedule - I find there’s no connection here like you see in the states or in Australia, I’m thinking of leaving

[@thedeaforc]

Please stay. I've been where you are. As a Dad, I need to raise my wee one in the faith. I'm far from a good Catholic but helping even a little can make a difference.

[@Hymnstreams]

Please dont give up. Which part of Canada are you in.

[@praxidescenteno3233]

That all of Saints never hurt as Jesús Christ! Only help Church to get near Heaven SO we must be Saints for help all in lines of Jesús Christ! And Saint Holy Virgin Mommy Mary with atraction by real only LOVE not by something else

[@JohnTwoFive]

Billboards along the highways?