What's the Ideal Headstock Angle?

[@jayrific]

Good job guy. If you ever update, you may want to mention the first tuning peg on an angled headstock must a certain distance away from the nut, to clear the first break angle. I'm running into this and will be using string trees on one of my practice builds like you suggested. Love the channel.

[@barbarianblood2316]

You have a great channel and you look almost exactly like my best friend who passed away in 2013. Respect🤘

[@yoavbinyamini]

Thanks, 🙏 appreciate it.

[@Dude_Slick]

I do a 3/3 angled headstock with no scarf joint. However, unlike Gibson, I include a volute for strength. Looks badass as well.

[@franks471]

I have a solar that's giving me trouble. It has a weak neck and bends under where the nut sits. I've had nothing but trouble with it. I replaced the nut thinkig that bone would improve the tone and found the bone itself to be unstable. After flattening all of the contact surfaces on my surface plate it would invariably deform over the course of a few hours. I had the same trouble with the end of the fretboard after removing the factory glue. I was ending up with an inconsistent surface and the nut wouldn't fit flush anymore. I think the problem with both was moisture, so some creative shaving and sealing stopped the rosewood from changing and then switched to a tusq nut. The tusq nut is stable material and has not changed since I flattened it. The flex of the neck is a bigger problem. I know I could probably strengthen that area with laminate to build up the base of the nut platform but then I'd have to trim down the nut. I just don't want to even if it's 2mm, So I created a gap to allow the nut to sit on a flat surface only when the guitar is tuned to F# standard. Yep, it overflexes too, and I have to account for that. It actually works, lol. Glue alone, no matter what I used would not hold the nut in place, the string tension and the amount of flex was too great. The nut would start lifting a little regardless of the glue, and for some reason the end grain of the fretboard hates super glue and acts up.

[@r.llynch4124]

I use a flat Fender styled headstock and staggered Sperzel tuners with a 4x2 config. Keeping the string headed straight to each tuner helps tuning stability especially with a tremolo. or even when bending strings. One reason Gibson has tuning issues is a incorrect nut slot since the string goes thru the nut and angles out of the nut to the tuner. Even with a properly cut nut it can still hang up.

[@yoavbinyamini]

I agree that a flat headstock with a 4x2 configuration is probably the best configuration if you are trying to keep the strings straight and avoid string trees and such. As classic as they are, I never liked the practicality of Gibson's headstocks and nuts. Locking nuts, however, can eliminate the need for these discussions altogether.. 😆

[@philippgrunert8776]

I am planning my first guitar build and found really surprisingly different indications for the stability of flat Vs scarf joint angle headstocks. Why are flat headstocks inherently more stable than the above-mentioned angled alternative in your opinion? I think it really comes down to the direction the pull force is acting relative to the words grain which may be considered equal more or less in both cases (if string tree is part of the equation). But taking into consideration that glued joints are more solid than the wood I would guess the angled alternative may be stronger. Really curious to read about your point of view and experiences.

[@yoavbinyamini]

Hi @Philipp Grünert, and thanks for the comment 🙏 (sorry for the late reply). The only reason I can think of for better stability (tuning stability) of a flat headstock would be the slightly smaller pressure on the nut due to the lower break angle of the strings. in that rational, angled necks with a smaller angle should behave similarly to the flat ones. Personally, I think there are more factors to consider which may have a bigger effect on the stability such as the quality of the tuners, locking tuners, the nut material, and a locking nut. I am even going to start with the bridge side. I don't feel I am an experienced enough player to rule one way or the other but I am sure you will be able to find people with very strong opinions about each option, and there ARE great guitars with all these options. Just go with the option that is right for you right now as builder and/or a player. You can on always try the other on you next guitar 😉

[@brettmarlar4154]

Ibanez actually use scarf joints and velutes to reinforce the headstock. The retainer bar is only on the double locking trem equipped models. They also have some headstocks that ate angled as well as ones that are more "Fender-style" flat headstocks. Of course, most Ibanez players don't generally care if the headstock is angled, or flat. What usually draws people to Ibanez is their thin, fast-playing necks and thier lightweight design/woods.

[@calmthoughtcafe]

Thank you for detail on this topic. Going with the strait neck 🙃

[@theelectricluthier1928]

Thanks 🙏, after trying both I am definitely on the Flat headstock team. I see no real benefit, as a builder, to the angled headstock. On the other hand, if anyone says he prefers it for playing or even for looks, I can't really argue with them.

[@billwebster759]

I'm thinking of angling the headstock on a Telecaster for access to the adjustment nut on a Hot Rod two-way truss rod. Seems like the only solution other than just lowering the head, and I'm not crazy about that idea either.

[@jvin248]

Gibson also uses a huge truss nut cavity further weakening it; and the headstock angle is 17deg. Epiphone (played by more kids and abused more often than Gibson instruments yet have lower % of production headstock breakage) uses a 12deg angle, small truss rod adjustment hole, and scarf joint. PRS uses 9deg headstocks with a smaller headstock paddle (smaller target) on their one-piece neck Core models while S2 and SE get scarf joints. A Fender style neck build option is using staggered tuner posts instead of string trees. Famously Led Zeppelin and Hendrix studio recorded with Telecasters because their high angle and tuner splaying Gibson headstock guitars constantly played out of tune.

[@samuelgoad7320]

I built my first guitar, Fender Thinline Semi Hollow body and I used a 3+3 angled headstock because of aesthetics and the annoyance of string trees. Its an awesome compromise because It was easy to put together and if the neck breaks or wraps, Its not a pain to replace like a Gibson ES or Gretsch neck would be

[@bobbob-lw5ve]

Hey man, what neck did you use?

[@uwemathioschek615]

i like the way you doing without having exspensive tools!i am or was a professional joiner and i like your videos!i have expensive tools.but i don t think they are necessary!stay save!

[@theelectricluthier1928]

Thanks, Uwe 🙏 , I feel many beginner and hobbyist, wouldn't necessarily have the fancy shop tools, especially if they came from the music side of guitar lovers and not the carpentry side. (And yes, you can be both). Plus, it's a challenge I currently live with, so if you guys can benefit from it...

[@rodrigocastro7651]

Volute rules !!!

[@jurgenzoller4407]

educational as always, surprised you never mentioned the use of a volute. Could you please do a video on zero frets and how to install them?

[@theelectricluthier1928]

Thanks, Jurgen. I did forget to mention volutes, but I would have them regardless of the angle, even with a flat neck. They add to the strength of the weakest are and they look nice. A zero fret video is due soon, as it is going to be a part of the next build.

[@primoroy]

Since wood can be made flexible by soaking in liquid ammonia, I am wondering why nobody prebends neck blanks using ammonia prior to neck construction. Once the ammonia dries and dissipates, the wood returns to its original properties in its new shape.

[@angelvogel7184]

Id love to see a video of "how much strenght do we need to break a guitar neck Fender Gibson style" there is not such thing on the internet...would be so cool!! Nice video, great to know those details!

[@yoavbinyamini]

It would be cool indeed, but I don't think it will serve as anything but entertainment. These necks would rarely break with normal use and it's usually the headstock.

[@zsaxeshed5743]

I seen you flippin me off hahaha,very good video dude!

[@DarkEdits2000]

Great :) Thank you !

[@maxwellspeedwell2585]

For electric I prefer to build a five-piece laminated neck at 6-7 degrees. Single coil = mahogany, humbucking = maple. Then, use banjo strings for the top two strings, then use a “B” string in place of the “G”string, a “G” string in place of the “D” string, and so on. Light action, and less tension. This method is at least sixty years old. Guess where I got it?

[@fabio4910]

tommy iommi?

[@molekyyli]

Introductory video to your channel for me. Gotta take a look what else you have. :) Just started to work on my first build and was asked what angle I want on my headstock and since my answer was more or less "I don't know/not sure"... 🤣 (except I know I don't wanna a Gibson type headstock) and after watching this I don't want the Fender either. The reason is the stupidest one, I don't like how it looks. 🤣

[@yoavbinyamini]

Not liking the way it looks, is a totally legit reason. There are many guitars with something in the middle. You can have a bit of an angle while maintaining strength.

[@molekyyli]

​@@yoavbinyamini It's still a bit dumb reason IMO, kinda choosing looks over strength. But I hope I can go for that, angled but not excessively weak. I would prefer the scarf joint but I think I will be told not to try that on the first one (I don't have that much experience with wood working, so...).

[@mattgoettl6796]

I absolutely LOVE your channel! You've got a great attitude and you are very knowledgeable. You also have a friendly and pleasant disposition. I've only watched a few of your videos so far, but I've already learned a lot, and I can't wait to see what else I can learn from you! Thanks, and keep up the great work, dude!

[@theelectricluthier1928]

Thanks, Matt,, I really appreciate your comment. 🙏Aside from the pat on the back (which is great by itself) it fuels me to make better videos, which will push me to be better at both building guitars and conveying the information to you guys. Cheers

[@dappawap]

Onw piece neck....? I always assumed the LP neck was a scarf joint....no wonder they break

[@woodskid4ever]

Totally agree! Learning from a friendly guy who is very postive, and never makes anyone feel inferior for their lack of experience. One of my favorites. Daniel at Unquendor is also great if you haven't found his channel yet.

[@aceraspire7456]

Gibson headstock breaks are as much about the choice of wood as the angle of the headstock. The short grain nature of mahogany makes it easier to separate along the grain path. Maple has much longer grain structure so the static pressure of the strings isn't focused on one small area of grain, which, due to the angle and thinned area (for angle and truss rod routing) make the whole system there much weaker. Using solid maple and a much reduced angle is a sure way Gibson could solve this problem.... and they did! Back in the 70's! When they were turning out mostly crap, they were using maple necks and volutes. It's as hard to find a headstock break from that era as it is to find a truly great example of their work from the same time. 🙂 * I loved my '78 gold-top! sounded great. played great. was great. I got lucky!! The guy I sold it to ended up beating the hell out of it, and not a single thing bad came of it.

[@dutu000]

Hi! I hope you could give me some advice... I built a neck-thru body bass guitar and I didn't put a back angle on the neck. I mean, I didn't put a slight angle between the neck and the body.. The neck and the body are in the same plane and at the same height (and the fretboard comes on top). My problem is that, with the bridge saddles at minimum height, the action is still very high and it buzzes although the frets are perfectly leveled. As the body is pretty thin (32mm), I don't think I'll be able to sand it at an angle... What should I do so I can lower the bridge? Rout a 5-6mm cavity where the bridge is so I can lower it? Are there any other options? Thanks :)

[@yoavbinyamini]

Thanks for the question @Ovidiu Turcu. I am no expert on bass guitars, but most guitars I know (Gibson being the obvious exception) don't have a back angle. It is usually only necessary when you have a tall bridge like the Tune-o-Matic Gibsons use. The first thing I would look for is bridge saddles with a lower profile or a different bridge that is lower. If that is not possible, then I would recess the whole bridge a few millimeters. You can route a rectangle, or even make a design around it so it looks like an intended feature and not a fix. Look at how Floyd Rose bridges are often installed.

[@dutu000]

​@@yoavbinyamini Thanks a lot for the answer! The bass uses a typical Fender vintage style bridge, in which I put 2 strings in each hole and on each saddle (the bass is an 8 string). The neck was basically one board and the body were 2 wings glued on. In the same plane as the neck. Now, when I put the strings on, I observed that the neck got a slightly front-angle (instead of a back angle), because of the the pressure of the strings, but I hope it won't increase. I have both trussrod and carbon reinforcements. I will try doing a recess... but I hope I'll be able to sufficiently lower the pickups also (they are only about 4-5mm out of the body and I think I have only 2-3mm of body underneath them..). I'll let you know how it goes.. THANKS!!!

[@peterjohnson4932]

Hey Yoav! What would be your preferred scarf joint? Type A or B?

[@theelectricluthier1928]

In most cases, I would prefer the B type, for a few reasons. It's not visible, on the front of the headstock (if you want to leave it natural, but it is also stronger because the headstock piece gets 'sandwiched between the fretboard and the neck. On the other hand type A may be simpler to pull of, especially in shallower angles, and should be strong enough. One of my next videos should be on just that.

[@2002Archer]

I heard that fender/flat headstocks begin to bend inwards after long enough. I was curious if that's fact or lie

[@yoavbinyamini]

It's the first time I've heard of it. I can't speak for other, more experienced Fender players, but I have an 80's Fender-style Ibanez that I personally bought in 85 and has had plenty of playtime (the frets need replacing) and string tension since. It is still straight as an arrow and I don't believe that Ibanez has better maple than Fender. I'd love to hear anyone who had a different experience

[@Frankinsteinguitar]

Finally someone who makes common sense without a lot of B.S. - thanks.

[@JonoMaiaBR]

My two favorite headstocks could't be more different than each other: fender classic and recersed jackson hahaha.

[@yoavbinyamini]

It makes total sense to me. Favorites are rarely the result of logic when it comes to guitars. It's usually about the feel and the sensation of playing it.

[@farkookneebah]

WOW 1st to watch and 1st to comment... good informational clip. cheers

[@theelectricluthier1928]

Thanks, Kevin 🙏

[@ronj5485]

Is yelling; mandatory ??

[@yoavbinyamini]

Just trying to be clear 🙂. Still working on improving the sound... Volume can always be turned down though...

[@paulolopes3726]

Great 😁👍👏

[@kitnkabootles]

tytyty

[@normbarrows]

The ideal headstock angle is a no headstock design. Headless guitars beat headstock designs all day long when it comes to weight and balance. And if you don't like the look - I have news for you - _PICTURES_ are for looking at, guitars are for _PLAYING_ .

[@yoavbinyamini]

Thanks for the comment @normbarrows 🙏. I wouldn't disagree, although, judging by the fact that headless guitars are here since the eighties, many would. I do think that downplaying the aesthetics of guitars will also be problematic with a lot of guitarists. On the practical side of things, I can totally see the advantages of guitars such as Strandberg.

[@niteshades_promise]

Yes you need that angle. Gibsons are just overpriced garbage. Deans dont brake.🍻

[@marksby77]

There are so many ways that Gibson could remedy their objectively poor Snap-o-Matic headstock design - scarf joint, reduced angle, volute, using a normal truss rod instead of one that requires half of the weakest point of the neck to be excavated...

[@theelectricluthier1928]

I couldn't agree more. I am not about to bash Gibson, I think tradition is not a logical trait' so I will not judge it as such. As a builder, I get to make my own choices. If I wanted to build any Gibson and stay to the shape, I would have had the same extreme angle. Although you are right and I would have probably used a scarf joint.. :-)

[@marksby77]

@@theelectricluthier1928 I don’t blame Gibson either, it seems they are hostage to purists who won’t accept anything that didn’t happen in the 1950s. I’m building a Gibson-style one-piece neck at the moment. I plan to follow my own advice, with the exception of the scarf joint. But I’ll be reducing the angle to 10 degrees, using a modern truss rod, using a volute, and making the whole thing out of rosewood instead of mahogany.

[@theelectricluthier1928]

@@marksby77 I totally agree, and I treat the 'politics' of the guitar world as such. My next build, although not a Gibson in any way, will also have the same features. A scarf Joint, a two-way truss rod, and a volute. I am thinking of something closer to 8 degrees, but maybe I'll go 'wild' with 10. I am also doing a multi-laminated neck, and maybe even some carbon fiber re-enforcement. Pulling out all the stops. 😉Check out my latest video, I have the whole part list there.

[@holmganghamburg]

Buy headless. Problem solved :)

[@dezionlion]

Waste time!