What's the most ridiculous plot twist ever? And why do Victorian writers love a coincidence?

Here are my nominations for some of the most far-fetched coincidences, misunderstandings or cases of mistaken identity used as plot devices in Victorian literature. This #victober threw up some corkers for me.
How do you feel about this sort of plot twist in Victorian writing? And today?
Share your favourite examples. Try to avoid spoilers or mark that at the start of your comment so people are warned.
Books mentioned:
Oliver Twist, Pickwick Papers, Great Expectations and David Copperfield by Charles Dickens
Tess of the D'Urbevilles by Thomas Hardy
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte
The Importance of Being Earnest by Oscar Wilde
The Doctor's Wife by Mary Elizabeth Braddon
London Assurance by Dion Boucicault
Afternoon by Ouida (Maria Louise Ramé) available online onlinebooks.li...
Daniel Deronda by George Eliot

[@TootightLautrec]

This is a fascinating topic to consider, and I do think Dickens takes the cake for plot twists, mistaken identities and neat resolutions. Or I THOUGHT so, until I thought about Shakespeare: the KING/QUEEN of coincidences, mistaken identities, and plot twists. HIs influence on Victorian writers must have been huge and, I suspect, gave them full license to explore the fun that can be had with such fictional/dramatic devices. Perhaps the fascination with what we know as humans and our general propensity to fool ourselves or to be fooled translates from the characters to us as readers. It's a wonderful topic to spend more time thinking about, so thanks for presenting it so eloquently.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@TootightLautrec you are right about Shakespeare of course. I think it is so striking with the Victorians because they are so much closer to us in time. Now I am wondering when the shift happened and that level of outrageous twist fell out of fashion. I think it carries on in things like comedy and some crime novels but not in most fiction. Was it out of fashion by the 1920s? I think so.

[@sohara....]

@@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 when it comes TV comedy mystery series, from Hollywood, there tends to be outrageous plot devices: and the hero investigator often gets very lucky indeed! No recent TV series come to mind; but am in bed at moment, without a TV and watching old series such as Diagnosis Murder and Drop Dead Diva. It's true, modern literary fiction doesn't employ such devices; or at least the ones I've read. But then they don't go in for epic themes either, as far as I'm aware. In relation to epic theme, the Oedipus story as hold by Sophocles contains an outrageous coincidence or two! Or three. If one is writing literature that is to be regarded as an approximation of real life, then one may tend to avoid these devices. . Am interested in your opinions.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@sohara.... I agree the outrageous coincidence or plot twist is a staple ingredient of many TV shows especially crime and comedy. And it has a long history back to the earliest literature we have. But modern literary fiction has moved away from this rather. When it does pop up I think the author may sometimes be giving a knowing wink.

[@4cCaro]

Hmm, I am definitely more patient with coincidences and misunderstandings that make things *harder* for the protagonists than coincidences that make their lives easier. The former feel like relatable bad luck, the latter like cheating!

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@4cCaro that makes sense, although sometimes Hardy takes that rather far too.

[@darrylfriesen]

Great video, Ros! I really enjoyed your observations here, especially as they pertain to Jane Eyre! I think you’re absolutely right about the relationship between its multiple, outlandish coincidences and its success, both in Victorian times and beyond! It’s inexplicably comforting and satisfying for the reader to see a beloved heroine get the happy ending she deserves, even through our suspension of belief!!

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@darrylfriesen Jane Eyre is so satisfying as you say. I'd forgive lot for that feeling.

[@darrylfriesen]

@@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 💯❤️☺️

[@readandre-read]

The Jane Eyre cousins....that one is a little tough to swallow but I agree, it's so far into the novel that it's a relief for something nice to happen to Jane for once. I am definitely more forgiving of absurd coincidences in older literature. I've been reading a lot of Shakespeare this year and it just wouldn't exist without coincidences, misunderstandings and people being fooled by rather flimsy disguised! Great video!

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@readandre-read yes a bit of luck falling her way seems fair by then. So true about Shakespeare. The further back you go the more it seems accepted or common. Jim commented about how Greek and Roman authors use these devices.

[@jimsbooksreadingandstuff]

Coincidences and misunderstandings were popular with Shakespeare and going back to the Roman playwright, Plautus like in the Brothers Menaechmus....

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@jimsbooksreadingandstuff absolutely. The Comedy of Errors takes them to an extreme. But it is interesting how the Victorians will sometimes combine them with a more realist style.

[@jimsbooksreadingandstuff]

@@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 The Comedy of Errors was inspired by Plautus's comedy The Menaechmi, which as performed in the years before Christ.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@jimsbooksreadingandstuff brilliant! But then Will never made anything up from scratch did he?

[@ariannefowler455]

This was such a great video! I'm also reading The Pickwick Papers now and enjoying the absurdity. I'm much more tolerant of this in Victorian novels. I think I'd find it ridiculous in modern novels, but who knows.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@ariannefowler455 somehow Dickens pulls it off.

[@MariaCristinaDuarteFerre-vu9ky]

I’ve just finished The Woman in White. In one scene the narrator comments on the role of Providence and how these twists happen.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@MariaCristinaDuarteFerre-vu9ky gosh yes, I had forgotten that. Brilliant.

[@sohara....]

*Plot devices:* - coincidences - misunderstandings - mistaken identity Coincidences Oliver Twist. Tess of the d'Urbevilles. Jane Eyre. The Importance of Being Earnest. Misunderstandings. Pickwick Papers. The Importance of Being Earnest. The Doctor's Wife by Mary Elizabeth Braddon. Mistaken Identity London Insurance by Dion Boucicault. Play: Afternoon by Mary Louise ------- (haven't found this on internet). .

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@sohara.... Afternoon is by Ouida (Maria Louise Ramé or Marie Louise de la Ramée) and it is available online. I'll add a link in the description to the video.

[@sohara....]

@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 thanks, and by way, I didn't realise you had listed the books in the description: very helpful!

[@josmith5992]

Having just finished a reread of Jane Eyre the part you mentioned was my first thought when I saw the title of this video Ros! I have a couple of friends I buddy read Victorian lit with and we take great joy in the coincidences that seem to proliferate in that period. My favorite is when characters casually bump into each other in London- admittedly not the city it is now but still very large- that happens in Dickens a lot. It also happens In Lady Audley’s Secret when a man who has lived in Australia for years bumps into an old friend the first day he arrives back in London 🤦‍♀️ In the same novel a big part of the plot hinges on a certain person, reading a certain part of a paper on a certain day and of course, he does. But yes, I forgive it more in Victorian novels especially if they are sensation novels as there is so much that is outlandish in those 😉

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@josmith5992 oh yes yes, running into people in London happens a lot doesn't it? As if London had a magic field to suck people in and throw them together. That one from Lady Audley's Secret is a beauty. I am trying to remember the novel where a man picks up and uses a scrap of paper as a wedge or bit of stuffing and much later finds he can use it to blackmail someone. It's nagging at my memory! But I do enjoy these twists as a rule.

[@BookChatWithPat8668]

This was delightful, Ros, and you made me laugh out loud: "Gee, you do look sort of like that I woman I used to be married to." Wonderful! I need to think about this topic further, but you are definitely right that we completely accept and even delight in coincidences, even ridiculous ones, in Victorian literature and in older literature than that while we would sort of balk at it in contemporary works. I've just been delighting in Oscar Wilde all weekend, and all of the coincidences in Earnest (and, to a lesser extent, in Lady Windermere's Fan) are what contribute to the wonderful comic effect. This is a great topic. Much food for thought.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@BookChatWithPat8668 I wonder when the turning point came when this level of coincidence and misunderstanding became less acceptable? I think comedy has more of a free pass still.

[@BookChatWithPat8668]

@@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 I think you are right about comedy having more leeway. It’s a really interesting question, though. We sort of roll our collective eyes if there is too much coincidence in any piece of contemporary literature.

[@richardbrown8966]

Loads of coincidences in the Wilkie Collins' novels I've read, and I love it!

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@richardbrown8966 I think it's good to take that attitude.

[@noteworthyfiction]

I know what you're talking about and it's a guilty pleasure for me. There's times I know things wouldn't be considered to work well in modern writing, but I like it anyway. 😊😊

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@noteworthyfiction a guilty pleasure! Exactly.

[@tillysshelf]

Oh, there are so many. People are always meeting people they've met before or turning out to be related or not recognising their nearest and dearest (a few of those in Sherlock Holmes). But I find that I've come to like it and even expect it. One of my disappointments in Little Dorrit was the introduction of a character near the end who wasn't domehow coincidentally wrapped up with the plot already.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@tillysshelf yes in the world of Victorian fiction that is an outrageous twist in itself.

[@ritawilbur6128]

Good point about how this was really the way stories were told in Victorian times. I think today we expect the elements of a story to at least have an internal logic. To this day, the ending of Jodi Picoult's "My Sister's Keeper" fills me with rage, because the ending is so entirely conveniently deus ex machina - but it would be 100% suitable for a Victorian novel, and if it was Victorian, I wouldn't mind it. I might almost expect it.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@ritawilbur6128 I had the same reaction to My Sister's Keeper. I swore never to read another book by her in fact.

[@lindysmagpiereads]

I encountered the “man doesn’t recognize former wife” plot device in a recent work of contemporary fiction and would have been irritated by the unlikelihood… except the same thing happened to a friend of mine in real life. London Assurance is highly entertaining. I was reading it for Victober (after watching the play in September) but Internet Archive was hacked while I was in the midst of reading it on that site, so now I’ve switched to something else for Victober: a recounting by Rick Geary of true unsolved murders that took place during the Victorian era.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@lindysmagpiereads how frustrating. I found an alternative source for the things I was reading from Internet Archive. I hope they recover eventually. So it happened in real life? Wow!

[@lindysmagpiereads]

@@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 Yes, wow. My friend was still bemused when she told me about the incident, shortly after it happened. They had been divorced for about 20 years at that point. Good idea about looking for an alternative source for London Assurance. It may be in Project Gutenberg.

[@elizabethbrink3761]

This is such a fun video! I'm all for a ridiculous Victorian plot twist! I think it's maybe because P.G. Wodehouse was one of the first classic authors I loved, so when I started reading Vic Lit, I was all for some absurdity. 😂 I just finished reading Villette and it has some pretty unbelievable coincidences too, but because Lucy conceals them from the reader for a while, they feel less absurd, maybe.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@elizabethbrink3761 I think the emotional truth of Villette is so obvious that a few unlikely coincidences are forgivable.

[@timgillam7964]

Many people take issue with the twist in Our Mutual Friend where a character keeps up an alias with his wife and includes a few others in the ruse, all to test her. Kind of farfetched considering the people he let in on his plan

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@timgillam7964 both immoral and far-fetched, but it does make for a good story.

[@jenniferlovesbooks]

Interesting! I don't think I mind a coincidence or bit of ridiculousness in a novel, particularly an older novel for some reason. A (non-Victorian) example would be The Scapegoat by Du Maurer where two men meet who happen to look exactly the same to the point that they are able to swap lives without anyone noticing 🤣 Great book!

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@jenniferlovesbooks funnily enough I have avoided that Du Maurier despite loving her writing because I wasn't sure I could swallow the set up. But if you enjoyed it perhaps I'll give it a try sometime.

[@cunningba]

Ridiculous plot twists are to be expected in comedy, so Oscar Wilde doesn't bother me at all. That's also why Pericles Prince of Tyre was my favorite Shakespeare story when I was 10 years old. For plot twists by Victorian authors, let me go into my Hardy rant now. In 1965 I was taking AP English and The Mayor of Casterbridge was assigned reading. I found the opening so unbelievable I DNF'ed it after about 80 pages. Rather a radical step for an assigned reading, but I think it underscores how much I was put off by it. I know it was based on a real incident, so being older and more mature now I can read it as a 'gimme' in the plot and move on. In fact, I read it about 10 years ago and that reading confirmed my loathing. Michael Henchard, and practically every other character in the novel, consistently behave too stupidly for me to find them believable. I know real people do behave stupidly (e.g., a certain ex-president comes to mind), but that is not enough to make them believable fictional characters. I'm now (re)reading Les Misérables. There are certain parallels between Jean Valjean and Michael Henchard, but Jean Valjean never seems unbelievable. In graduate school (50 years ago) I remarked to a friend of mine how I loathed Hardy. He said he loved Hardy and that I should try Jude the Obscure. I tried Jude the Obscure. I was not impressed. I found it singularly dreary. I realize that a lot of what I dislike is the conditions in Victorian society which Hardy is implicitly criticizing, but many other authors of the period have made better criticisms with more believable characters and less depressing writing. Around 10 years ago, when I was reading Mayor of Casterbridge, I decided to give some of his short stories a try. On the subject of ham-handed plot twists, A Mere Interlude deserves some kind of prize. Maybe growing up in Hollywood I watched too many B movies, but I could each of the plot twists coming a mile away. Again, wooden characters behaving stupidly. I'll read some more Hardy eventually I suppose to see if I can find anything to like, but I think Steve Donoghue is similarly bewildered by Hardy. So far the only kind word I can think of to say is that he is better at creating believable characters than Ayn Rand. My award for the most ridiculous plot twists of all time I think must go to John W. Campbell's Invaders from the Infinite. Not Victorian, I know. But, if I can't award it negative stars, I think I'll have to go to quaternions. Read it if you must if you haven't already. I you do, I hope you get a chuckle out of it. But you won't get the time back.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@cunningba I love Hardy but I recognise what you mean. I reread The Mayor of Casterbridge last year and often found myself head in hands inwardly shouting "no" at the characters or the author. Yet I forgive him somehow. I think TMoC and Jude are the worst of the novels for this though. In Tess it feels more natural although tragic and some of the others are more balanced. I'm not a fan of his short stories though. They don't have so much of the compensatory pleasures of the novels for me. Thanks for the entertaining non-recommendation of Invaders from the Infinite. I will skip that one for sure!

[@barbarahelgaker390]

😂I think part of the reason for reading fiction is letting yourself get carried away by story/coincidence/plot twist. Takes us away from the realities of life! I don't mind these wild coincidences in Victorian novels and just go with it for the pure enjoyment!

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@barbarahelgaker390 a bit of suspension of disbelief is essential I think. As you say, it is fiction not real life.

[@kathleencraine7335]

My take on Oscar Wilde's "coincidences" is that he's making great fun of Victorian coincidences. I always consider them as spoofs. And the unbelievable coincidence in Ouida was repeated in the 20th century by that master of plots Agatha Christie in "Murder in Mesopotamia." I nearly threw the book across the room.😖

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@kathleencraine7335 the habit of the more outrageous coincidence persists more in comedy and crime fiction I think. It can rather undermine a good crime story through if it is too implausible. Good thought about Wilde doing it as part of his satire as much as to shape the plot.

[@readwithlorikate]

I hadn’t thought about it much up until now, but Victorian literature really is full of absurd coincidences, isn’t it? I was so young when I first read Jane Eyre that I never questioned the feasibility of the cousins plot-twist. As an adult, I realise it’s fairly ridiculous, but it makes for a good story, so I accept it. I agree with you that Victorians were likely more receptive to these coincidences due to the idea of providence, given that they were a more religious society. I also think we should keep in mind that remarkable coincidences do sometimes occur in real life, though, of course, not as often as these Victorian authors would have us believe!

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@readwithlorikate I think we can all think of the odd extraordinary coincidence from our own lives, though perhaps not on the scale of Jane and her cousins.

[@denisadellinger]

There are lots of plot twists in Victorian literature and Regency as well. I think the women who mistake a mans attention as a marriage proposal.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@denisadellinger 18th century dramatists like Sheridan loved a plot based on confusion around proposals and marriage plans too.

[@clarepotter7584]

In the female detective novel I'm reading she finds (in the first story) a crime, investigates, the person who's the 'victim' of the crime, turns out to be a horrible person and suddenly something happens which resolves the dilemma and I was left thinking 'that was remarkably convenient'. Maybe it depends on the quality of the writing. Maybe I'm happy to forgive it, depending on the quality of the writing and whether I'm enjoying the book.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@clarepotter7584 yes if it is fun or satisfying we are carried along I think. I must read that female detective novel one day.

[@lizh9497]

I wonder if the Victorians were more accepting of this type of plot device because they weren’t saturated with stories like we are now with cinema, tv, streaming services etc on top of books and theatre like they had.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@lizh9497 that's a good thought. And a TV soap opera today might well have as many daft plot twists as a Victorian novel.

[@lizh9497]

@@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 that’s true 😂

[@felixarquer7732]

SPOILER ALERT FOR DICKENS’ HARD TIMES. Towards the end of the story, the female protagonist (can’t remember a single name) takes a walk in a random direction away from the city, and just happens to stumble upon the pit where the male protagonist fell some days ago and is about to die. I only see this book from a distance of years, but I remember reading this scene and thinking “No way!”.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

Oh my goodness yes I had forgotten that one. Pretty extreme!