'What seems upside down to us makes perfect sense to Kabir,' says Kapil Tiwari

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"Children get happy without reason. They have such an innocent and spontaneous mind. We lose this quality of mind at some point... that simplicity, innocence, spontaneity are sacrificed at the altar of the intellect. We become clever, pragmatic, artful. … In 'ulatbaansi', it is as if a great sage is rediscovering her childhood. The clever, learned mind, living on borrowed knowledge, is left behind. You immerse in your own experience, realise the truth, and become a child again." - Kapil Tiwari
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Among the most invigorating encounters we had in our journeys in quest of Kabir was with a remarkable person who ran the Adivasi Lok Kala Akademi in Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh. Walking down the steps into the basement office of this government institution, we would quite unexpectedly arrive into a space that buzzed with intellectual energy, wicked humour and a zest for the philosophic, the spiritual and the artistic - all characteristic hallmarks of Dr Kapil Tiwari's personality.
Kapil ji earned a Phd in Literature with a focus on 'Nayi Kahani' in the early eighties. However, soon thereafter he happily left behind this brush with the 'written' word, to enter a life-long engagement with the 'oral'. In 1982, he was given charge of the very first autonomous government institution - the Adivasi Lok Kala Akademi - which had a mandate to inquire into the oral traditions of the tribal and folk communities, in which flowed their poetic, theatrical and narrative texts. In the 30 years that followed, under his editorship, the institute produced a formidable body of work. This includes a 100-volume series which has published over 1,00,000 oral compositions from tribal and folk cultures. One of these volumes 'Lok Mein Kabir' collates the verses of this 15th century Bhakti poet in 8 dialects of the central Indian region - Bundeli, Nimaadi, Malwi, Bagheli, Chhatisgarhi, Maithili, Bhojpuri and Rajasthani.
At a personal level, Kapil ji has kept alive an energetic and abiding interest in the Agam (Tantra) and Nigam (Vedic) traditions of our country. His research has inquired into the ways in which these philosophic thoughts and practices have permeated the lives and expressions of saint poets such as Kabir, Meera, Gorakhnath and others. He retired from the Akademi in 2012, and currently resides in Bhopal. He can be contacted at 91-755-2775122.
(Click on Settings for subtitles in English)
This is one of a series of uploads for Ajab Shahar, a webspace dedicated to mystic poem and song, created by the Kabir Project team (www.ajabshahar.org ; www.kabirproject.org).
English Translation: Vipul Rikhi & Sharanya Gautam
Video Credits:
Camera & Interview by: Shabnam Virmani
Production Assistance: Rumah Rasaque
Editing: Sharanya Gautam
Sub Titling: Sharanya Gautam & Vipul Rikhi
Collection: Kabir Project
Date of Recording: September, 2004
Place: Adivasi Lok Kala Parishad Office, Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh