What Should I Use? - Wall Insulation: Cavity or Continuous Insulation?

[@jackofalltradesmasterofnon7844]

I feel like this discussion should include more on performance path vs. prescriptive path. I did a calculation for our home build in 4 marine and if I use higher performance windows along with R23 between the studs I don’t need exterior CI. So in this case would I rather spend money on better windows or exterior insulation?… for us better windows and simpler build seems like a better option. This really should be discussed more, I didn’t even realize that performance path was an option until I did a lot more digging. Performance path lets you make the right tradeoffs for your particular build.

[@Jaker788]

I assume that's using the wall u factor calculation and not the simplified r value alternative? The r value alternative for 4 marine is just R23 and R5 continuous, but if you use the u factor they require.

[@3rett115]

Agreed. I've gone over this multiple times and cannot justify the complexity and expense of CI. A 2x6 wall, advanced framing, and careful attention to air sealing is what I keep coming back to. The only thing that nudges me toward CI is the elimination of condensation on the sheathing. However, as long as the aforementioned is done right, that should not ever be a problem, at least I don't think it is. I've also considered spray foam. It's so easy, air seals by nature, eliminates condensation (if done right), but is massively expensive, hard to rework, and if you spray your roof and ever have a leak; you'll never see it and your building could be condemned. So I've ruled out spray foam too.

[@jeremyjedynak]

​@@3rett115To see the 9/25 video on the Build Show Network website about Insofast X Bracket system for exterior continuous insulation, and how it works with exterior spray foam. Game changer.

[@MichaelJ674]

There are also new studies suggesting that the persistence of off gassing is a bigger problem with spray foam insulation than previously understood and the fact that spray foam is pretty rigid and subject to cracking when the wood structural elements settle or otherwise move with changes in temperature, in which you lose the continuity of your air and vapor barrier. Then condensation on the inside face of the exterior sheathing becomes a very real concern.

[@jeremyjedynak]

@@MichaelJ674 The possible cracking of spray foam due to house settling has been debunked elsewhere. If the spray foam is on the outside and off gasses it's not a problem for the people inside the structure.

[@lprice5583]

Please do a segment on using hempcrete to insulate old buildings and masonry. I want to know more and I feel that it is an area that American contractors struggle.

[@jeremyjedynak]

In this video, Jake says that he sees his company continuing to build in his region with still some cavity insulation in addition to continuous exterior insulation. It wouldn't surprise me if he did an update video a year from now, perhaps after using the Insofast X Bracket system, where he would say that they're exclusively doing continuous exterior insulation going forward. Lots of great info in this video, and any builder who not only reads the code but will walk you through how it applies to your build, like Jake did here, is definitely one worth considering working with!

[@atomicsmith]

I’ve been looking at that system. Have you used it personally? Did you find it sped up your build?

[@xokissmekatexo]

Have you used this? I was looking at MAX 3.75 for climate zone 6b.

[@MichaelJ674]

Really enjoyed this one, Jake. It clarified a few things I hadn’t thought of before, at least not with any sort of clarity. It’s difficult to discuss any one of the four control layers without getting into some depth on the other three as they are so interrelated and interdependent. I thought you did a pretty good job of focusing on insulation without sacrificing too much on mentioning the others and without making the video longer than our attention spans can endure 😊. That said, perhaps the single most important reason to use at least some continuous exterior insulation is to move the dew point during the heating season from the interior face of the sheathing to outside the WRB in order to eliminate the potential for water vapor from the interior condensing on the sheathing and thereby promoting mold growth. I don’t recall you mentioning this in the video and from the point of view of building durability, this is way more important than thermal comfort, energy efficiency, construction cost, etc.

[@kverdis2]

Nice work w/ the visualization of lumber difference. 👍🏼

[@joeywharton5662]

I am building a custom home right now and did 2" of polyiso between the framing and sheathing, glued onto studs, staggered seams to OSB and atrached with screws and nails i had to speciality order, so extra labor was minimal. Doing Blowin in damo cellulose in the ceilings and wall, batt in floor. Total will be R66 in ceiling, R35.8 in walls and R38 in floors. 1/4 of the cost of spray foam. Invested into triple pane windows instead. Brought HVAC cost down to $1k for heat pump mini split. No ducting allowed for unvented vaulged ceiling. Super comfortable, quiet and cost effective.

[@johnjackson9235]

Did you also do cavity insulation? Also can you explain further how you connected the insulation panels to the studs? 100% construction adhesive along the studs?

[@joeywharton5662]

@@johnjackson9235 yes open cell to get to a total of R60 in ceiling and R34 in walls. Construction adhesive on studs/rafters, tacked in with 3" nails, sheathing is lagged in on corners with 4" large flat head ledger locks, and 3 1/2" standard nail pattern. My certified foam insulator said it was genius and gave me a really tight envelope and improved the performance of the open cell.

[@patrickkenny2077]

I think the interesting opportunities with continuous insulation really come down to how your interior wall is presented/finished. If your rough framing can be highlighted in the interior you are making the most effective use of resources: you eliminate the cavity insulation because that could let you eliminate the drywall.

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

Exterior insulation is still a luxury item for the vast majority of clients. Even if you use cheap polyiso, the extra labor for detailing is rarely in the budget. Also, cavity insulation is important for sound dampening. Even if my home had all the required R-value on the exterior I would still put some insulation between the studs.

[@crforfreedom7407]

💯! I see a lot of high-end clients on 'The Build' used as examples, and that's great. But most of the homes I've ever built were for middle to upper-middle class families, so I agree with you; these types of budgets are rare IMO over most jobs. We won't event talk about 'spec-builds'...

[@alexlindekugel8727]

@@crforfreedom7407 funny cuz im still into it with my contractor the importance of continues exterior insulation and honestly with colder climate of wi vs the cost. bout 3k for 1.5in of xps. math is saying in 3 to 5 years depending how hot or cold a year is itll pay for its self. house has real 2x4 studs and the cold bridging is massive mid wall maybe 68 but on the studs its 45 to 40 f. that really cools down a room in winter.

[@crforfreedom7407]

@@alexlindekugel8727 Absolutely! Go for it if you can afford it, the ROI you mentioned is probably pretty accurate, except you left out the added interest you're paying on the mortgage (assuming you're not paying cash). They get most of that up front you know......... But absolutely! The more the better.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

We are moving into a house in southwestern Arizona that has walls of ICF and a truss joint roof with foam insulation and some other insulation beneath that. The roof is metal and it collects rainwater to be stored in a 12,000 gallon galvanized exterior and lined tank. The garage is metal with a 4,000 square foot rain catching metal roof and a 28,000 gallon galvanized and lined tank. Sorry that I gave too much information here.

[@littlemanwithglasses5491]

Love this series and need more and more

[@andykross7242]

An even better option is to go 100% continuous insulation with ICF construction and get a better built house. Better in terms of structural, disaster resistance, fire resistance, sound suppression, durability, longevity, less trips around the building, etc.

[@crforfreedom7407]

That was my thought exactly. Europeans laugh at us; either laugh or look bewildered at our unwavering use of stick framing. Sure it made sense 100+ years ago, especially when the lumber all came from locally (even site) timber, but the level of complexity and cost going into designing an energy-efficient wood frame structure just makes no sense today, especially given the rising cost of lumber the past 30 years!

[@jeremyjedynak]

In every ICF video that I have seen where someone asks about roofing, they always seem to acknowledge that there aren't great roofing ICF solutions that are also cost effective, and so they have to switch to something else and then there is a transition where you have to have a plan to maintain continuity.

[@crforfreedom7407]

@@jeremyjedynak I don't understand your point. At the top/last course, lags to bolt 2x to, that's a nailer for the rafters/trusses. Exactly the same way you would prepare concrete for receiving any 2x transition. The 2x around opening can be liquid flashed to guarantee CI. Solid concrete is less likely to swell, move and crack than wood framing over the years if your footer's right. ICF is CI.

[@jeremyjedynak]

@@crforfreedom7407 Trusses aren't ICF, hence the transition from one system to another. You should do some videos on this topic because all that I have seen on this topic highlight the transition from ICF to roof as a problem area. In your description, where is the water management plane and how does water that penetrates the roof safely drain out of the structure?

[@crforfreedom7407]

@@jeremyjedynak The topic of the video was CI in the wall structure, it did not address ceilings and roofs. That doesn't change and of course it too is a challenge. Theoretically, you could poor a solid concrete in the ceiling/ roof area, but is it cost/benefit effective? I don't think so. Most builders do a great job with spraying CCF in the ceiling joists and eliminate air penetration with that. The next question is, is the attic semi-conditioned or open? IMO, solid concrete is the best CI available, especially with blocks constructed with CCF for walls compared to the hoops these guys are jumping through to maintain wood frame structures. You can never have enough insulation and vapor barrier, the question is always cost. Resources are finite. And we aren't even addressing overall ROI...

[@raymondpeters9186]

2 foot thick poured in place pumicecrete walls are fire proof and has a good R value and good sound attenuation My goal is to build a pumicecrete home for Community First in Austin Texas Take care Ray

[@CybekCusal]

I just built my addition with 3" xps exterior. I'm in zone 6. I eliminated the window bucks. They are just another unnecessary thermal bridge. I put cheap 1/2" osb on the exterior to nail siding and windows. EZ. You don't need multiple layers. It's made in 3".

[@stephengreco5115]

So it better over all to have Advanced framing (2x6) and something like zip-R6/R9? I'm about to do an extension on my house for a kitchen. Im in New England (Connecticut). Room is over a crawlspace to match the rest of the house. Only two walls are exposed as the extension is building out an inside L on the house. Current Plans only have 16 on center 2x4 with regular osb sheething. Which doesn't seem enough. Thanks for all the amazing knowledge. Really helpful and informative.

[@patrickgeorge141]

I need more conversation on moisture in roof systems on insulation, for continuos insulation or SIP systems. Seems it is a problem that comes about much later and becomes a big deal in cost of repairs and amount of damage done.

[@TevisC]

In a cold climate, putting vapor impermeable insulation outside the wall will be the death of many homes.. this alone makes me very suspicious of the code. Also, you have to lose heat to dry. In the end I believe the currently built homes will have a shorter lifespan with higher costs as they will require expensive repairs much sooner than less efficient homes.

[@ACatKrom]

If the sheathing is kept warm enough to prevent condensation you won't have any issues. This is done by having the correct ratio of exterior to interior R value. That being said, the way the code is written you can be "to code" but not have the correct ratio. Always remember building to code is the worst you can do by law

[@chaseweeks2708]

Another way to look at that minimum code is that the IRC considers 20+5 is roughly equal to 0+15, and, switching to some basic algebra, subtracting the +5 from +15 means R20 internal is equal to R10 ci. So, 2 to 1 (again, roughly). Really simple. If you really want to beat your head against the wall, try doing those calculations with post-frame with 8ft oc. lol

[@oldtimefarmboy617]

"What Should I Use? - Wall Insulation: Cavity or Continuous Insulation?" Yes.

[@mistertwo6113]

Thanks for the geek-out!

[@trampfossil]

Can you also address the double pane tripple pane gas filled windo factor too?

[@jackofalltradesmasterofnon7844]

See my other comment. This discussion needs to include performance path option. Performance path takes into account the higher performance of different parts of the building assembly and lets you make the right tradeoffs for you build and climate.

[@crforfreedom7407]

Does the argon stay put better than it used to? Cause 20-30 years ago, getting an argon-filled window was a joke, as it was pretty well established that the gas would completely escape its enclosure within the 1st 5 year period. I built only one home with argon windows way back then, never used it again given everything I heard. LowE yes. I'd have to do a lot more research on what they're building today b4 I ever did it again...

[@Jcewazhere]

There was a video a while back where the 2x4 studs were offset forward and back sitting on a 2x6. Would the insulation weaving through that count as continuous? I wish codes were enforced everywhere. I have a 1 year old house in Southern CO (5b) and they did barely R15 in the walls. Not R20+5 like that graphic shows. It's a spec home, they did a crappy job on most of it, but that's the most irksome because it's the hardest to fix for now.

[@crforfreedom7407]

I wouldn't think so. It would be an improvement in my eyes, not a solution to CI...

[@Jaker788]

No not quite, but aside from the code r value requirement, they also present the requirement with wall U factor. What really matters is that you hit that u factor, the r value table with the 20+5 or 13+10 is an alternative simplified version of U factor. You can do a more in depth calculation of the insulation value with the offset studs, including windows, and see if that gets you to the required U factor.

[@bakerz7269]

Staggered studs. It does allow for a great thermal break along walls. Not getting the lesser heat transfer through all the studs. I don't understand CI enough to know if it counts

[@steven7650]

You have to be really careful about going ABOVE code with cavity and outside insulation because the ratio determines where the condensing layer is. If you're not careful you can rot the wall out. Given the skill of most labor i went with zip-Z becuause the odds of them getting it right everywhere is zero.

[@purplerays6]

So, I'm getting ready to build a house for me, and it is truly a budget build. Not sure if the zip r sheathing with the 1 inch foam is in the budget, but I DO want the best air sealing and insulation I can get. What's the most cost effective way to have it all? Zone 4 in Kentucky, 2400 square foot ranch. I was planning on using the foam backed vinyl siding already. Would this do the job?

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

FWIW, I'm about to start building my new home and planning to use Zip-R. After doing all the research this appears to be the most cost effective solution. Adding other exterior insulation gets very expensive very quickly when you add up the material and all the extra labor to detail especially around windows and doors. I would love to cover the house in a blanket of Rockwool, but that money is better spent on upgraded windows, etc.

[@crforfreedom7407]

If you're building it yourself, I would strongly suggest you compare IDF to your current budget and energy requirements. It might be a great alternative option for you...

[@purplerays6]

@@crforfreedom7407 sorry, what’s IDF? I’m an old framer, trying to catch up to the cool kids and current, modern ideas. Thanks in advance!

[@DONCLI2]

Crazy! I was wanting to do the same thing in Kentucky. I'm in Eddyville. Whereabouts you building? Best I can tell IDF has something to do with rainfall? But I couldn't wrap my head around it.

[@crforfreedom7407]

@@purplerays6 IDF are CCF blocks that build like legos you pour concrete in: It's insulation, solid concrete and the forms all in one. 8" or 12" thickness

[@ny384388]

Your N1102.1.3 table of wood frame wall R values is different than what I see in IRC2021 or the most recent IRC2024. In all cases for all zones, table N1102.1.3 in IRC 2021 allows for strict cavity insulation with no CI; in your specific zone (4) R-30 cavity only is allowed. Can you please provide a reference for this specific table shown in the video that requires CI in all wall assemblies.

[@Leonidimus59]

Advanced framing or not, you still have to have headers in load bearing walls? If it's not load bearing, you can skip on headers in a regular 16 OC wall.

[@cw6410]

I’m not crazy about the zip r sheathing, so I’m struggling to find a cost effective option of continuous insulation when using cedar shingles. Only way is to use two layers of sheathing which just isn’t cost effective

[@atomicsmith]

Why don’t you like it. I used it on a build and was really impressed by it. The framers didn’t complain about it, but the result was impressive. It was rated at r6, but honestly the house felt better insulated before we added the cavity insulation than many buildings have felt at completion. The fact it eliminates trips, and also window and door bucks or specialty flashings/ sills makes it a good value in my opinion.

[@Building-IT]

I built a post frame house. So I have insulation going between the post. 4 inches of spray foam.

[@ronm6585]

Thanks.

[@MB-hc2xw]

ICF and done.

[@ACatKrom]

for several times the cost.

[@CG-cx3sm]

Could you spray the exterior with 2.5 inches of closed cell. No tape or seams no stud insulation.

[@m58cable]

Yes, InSoFast is coming out with a easily nailed on bracket to facilitate this.

[@ACatKrom]

Not only is it the most expensive possible way to go, it shrinks and cracks.

[@bricelangston8634]

I don’t like continuous being referred to as an alternative. It should be as standard as cavity. With the advent of new materials that allows for sound sealing and waterproofing., continuous should be applied as it makes sense. Retro is the only thing that gives me indigestion.

[@justinrutledge6090]

This is nothing more then people creating more costs for the homeowner to build there homes, its all about the new product you gotta have.. I would love to see the same house built traditionally an with all the gimmicks an promo hoop la an at the end see the let's see the blower door test an what the difference is an what the cost difference is. Then let's come back in 50 years an see each one is doing? Yall realise the homes built in 20's till the 90's let alone to date, didn't have half the stupid codes now, AN THEIR STILL STANDING STRONG!! An cost 50% less to build.

[@ACatKrom]

and 20 times as much to heat

[@RammaJamma3]

2x6 walls or 2x8 walls? Which would y’all go with in 2025

[@jeremyjedynak]

@@RammaJamma3 Whichever can fit the widest diameter plumbing pipe that needs to be placed into it, and put all insulation on the outside.

[@marksandoval5361]

2x4 walls with outboard continuous insulation. A 2x4 R13 wall with R12 Zip sheathing will be more efficient than an R27 2x8 wall. In addition, 2x8s are going to get expensive.

[@tullgutten]

I know you love Zip in the states but WHY not have rockwool exterior insulation and the main water control layer above that ? That how i have it on my house. Regular old house with 2x4 framing and then 5cm exterior insulation and then Tyvec (not the Us home wrap type but a better one sold in Norway) then 5cm air gap and pressure impregnated wood siding

[@gregoryvschmidt]

All very helpful if discussing new construction, but the majority of building projects are remodels. Continuous is virtually impossible without expanding the project far beyond original concept.

[@DONCLI2]

I'm with purplerays6. I want to use zip-r with insulated vinyl siding and then spray foam in 2x4 studs. Good idea?

[@welewisiii]

zip r is a great product. i would do zip r and rockwool in the stud bays- use 2x6 and they make an r23 you don’t loose a ton of heat thru side walls to make closed cell spray foam a soy effective option - in ceilings/ roof lines spray foam all day- even your floor spray foam- seals it up tight and stops the convection current in your home zip r -architects at the shore are a little skeptical of it because it doesn’t have the shear value of regular plywood. i just used it with the rockwool and it performs really really well- with some nice marvin ultimate windows

[@utpharmboy2006]

nice!!! this is exactly what i plan on using although my frame is a lower gage steel...i will have a full comcrete basement with all my utilities and plumbing run through the top of the basement. its a single story home not counting the basement and i dont want ANYTHING in the attic other then electrical wires for fans and lighting. that said would you still just use spray foam everywhere in the attic?

[@jeremyjedynak]

@@DONCLI2 Insulated siding is a terrible idea because when you need/want to replace the siding you're also forced to replace (or lose) the integrated insulation.

[@imtheonevanhalen1557]

You're showing bad insulation installation @7:32.......NEVER EVER staple the vapor barrier to the inside of the studs.....staple to the outside edge.......search insulation manufacturers showing heat lose that way.....incredibly stupid!!

[@СергійМаксименко-г7й]

Кривий Ріг 📯 вітає 🎉 исіх, мирного неба Україні👍👍👍

[@richgetz]

This video is too slow paced!

[@dannylayton1106]

Blah. Blah. Blah.