What Stat Best Proves Goaltending Greatness?

I wanted to do this after hearing Dave Poulin on TSN say that wins are overrated and don't necessarily reflect who the best goalie in the NHL is.
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[@juliushlavco]

To determine who was the greatest goaltender, all goalies would have to play behind the same defence, in the same era and the exact amout of games, which is impossible and there still would be the luck factor

[@christopher6969]

What question are you answering? The question is (Which ***STATISTIC*** proves the greatest goaltender) For example::: 1. Goals against Average. 2. Wins 3. Shutouts ETC...

[@juliushlavco]

@@christopher6969 I'm answering the question If it's possible to say which goalie is the GOAT...

[@juliushlavco]

The point of my comment is that it's pointless to argue over who's the greatest goalie, or player for that matter

[@christopher6969]

The title doesn't ask who's the greatest goalie i said. Which statistic?

[@GodWeenSatan]

And they all have to take them same shots at the same speed

[@FritzyBeat]

Thank you so much for mentioning Ron Tugnutt, I genuinely did not expect that. Every time I bring him up in conversations as being one of my favorite goalies to watch people look up his stats and tell me "wow, he wasn't very good, look how much he was traded, and those numbers yeesh". I wasn't even old enough to follow hockey for most of Tug's career, but being a goalie myself, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the incredible goalies who gave it their all behind less than spectacular teams. I spent hours going back and watching footage from old Tugnutt, Potvin, Joseph, Hasek, and etc... games as a kid, so thanks for giving one of them the moment of respect they deserve~

[@sturmflut93]

How the hell is Hasek on top of the list of save percentage? Scott Foster has a 100% and surely should be the greatest goalie of all time!

[@BSAnime]

Sturmflut93 He's a living legend. This is a discussion for 2nd best

[@Dorkmaster941]

Need to do era adjusted. The crazy thing about Hasek, is that he'd have a .930 save percentage, and 2nd place would be around .910. And this was a 5 year period, not just a fluke year.

[@answeris4217]

Hasek was great. He put up those numbers with terrible teams. The Sabers didn't have great teams when Hasek was there. You can say the same about the Canadien in the 80's. They didn't have great tallent that surrounded Roy. The thing is you wouldn't have gotten a Roy without Glen Hall and Philip Esposito. He just took that style and showed how to play agressive with it. I don't think we will ever see an other Hasek. That style died when he retired.

[@Dorkmaster941]

@@answeris4217 Tim Thomas was the closest I'll say

[@answeris4217]

@@Dorkmaster941 Yeah I don't think you can teach what Thomas was like. He had some technique mixed in with pure reflexes when that failled. Hasek had no technique and just found a way to stop the puck. He would twist and turn and roll over and then still get a pad up to stop the corner snipe. And the keep flopping around like a seal out of water and stop 4 close rebounds. There's things that modern goalies took from him like dropping the stick to cover the puck with the blocker but nothing else can be thought.

[@Dorkmaster941]

@@answeris4217 Hasek also played at a time where being able to cover the floor stopped a lot more pucks. A lot of Hasek's highlight reel were times when shooters would've scored had they raised the puck a bit. I'm confident Hasek would've adjusted and could still be elite if he were born ten years later, but it's hard to compare.

[@answeris4217]

@@Dorkmaster941 I saw Hasek play live. You need to trust me when I say this. When he was on his stomac on the ice he still had the top half of the net covered. He would twist his body around and get a blocker up or he would do a somersault and block it with his legs. The guy didn't get those stats by giving up. It's not possible to show a highlight real for that guy because every single game you would have 10 to 20 highlight real saves. And that isn't an exageration ether. The only reason why Buffalo didn't have a cup is because your team needs to score one goal to win.

[@PancakesAndHammers2426]

Buffalo fans went yeah, Detroit fans went yeah and I went yeah. Hasek to me is the greatest goaltender I have ever seen. Although...I understand why people say Roy, Esposito, and or Brodeur. Honorable mention to Gump Worsley. Holy cow he was special.

[@dmonsef]

Regular Season goes to Hasek, but Playoffs goes to Roy.

[@GoodMenstruationAttitude]

He was such a dervish out there. All the "oh wow" saves you see these days on a more routine basis - Hasek was the first NHL goalie to make those saves back in the day. Plus, Buffalo was never a great contender. If I have to pick a goalie for just one game, it's always going to be Hasek.

[@rodchallis8031]

Of course, it's a really small sample size, but Vladislav Tretiak was something to behold in the '72 series.

[@dmonsef]

@@rodchallis8031 Tretiak will always be considered the greatest goalie ever to never play in the NHL. His workout regimen was just off the charts and he's probably the only goalie you could say that could have played on a equal level or better to Hasek.

[@answeris4217]

If I go history wise... The modern Goalie starts at Glen Hall. Look at the guy's highlights. The guy played the butterfly with NO MASK. How insane is that.

[@anonimuso]

Waiting on line at the DMV...need a distraction... Me: "Hey, Patrick Roy was great, but he was no Hasek." [Chaos ensues] Me: [slips to the front of the line] Note: This only works in Canada.

[@Tomatohater64]

I would say that save percentage is the best overall individual stat that you can use to most accurately evaluate the effectiveness of a goalie. Dryden was the first great tall goalie. Only saw him play once - he faced over 40 shots and gave up one goal. And for as small as he was, Mike Palmateer was a super netminder for the Maple Leafs.

[@Tomatohater64]

@@michaelb4833 I can see where you're coming from, but do you really think wins, goals against average, or maybe even total minutes played during a given season are better indicators? And also the unknown factor here - injuries and total games missed. The best ability for any goalie is availability.

[@aramondehasashi3324]

Save percentage would be great if the players you're comparing played around the same number of games or shots against. Roy, Luongo and Brodeur played way more games then a lot of the guys ahead of them.

[@Tomatohater64]

I don't know who the best goalie was or is, but my all-time favorite is # 35: Tony Esposito. I only saw him play 4 times but what I loved about his game was his perfect ability to read and play angles along with being very aggressive between the pipes.

[@stupidas9466]

Stephen Pruszenski i played as a goalie in oldtimers hockey when palmateer was playing for the leafs. I used to impersonate him when i had the chance. Like when the other team would ice the puck i'd slide into the corner of the rink and do a double pad stack. Miss those days!

[@MineCraftDadnSon]

Bower... this man was everywhere meeting with fans, children, supporting causes, tournaments in ball hockey... everybody was drawn to him. His persona... his energy was so good. He was always surrounded by a group of children getting jerseys signed and he would sign them all no problem no questions no smug looks. IMHO Bower is one of the best ever. In hockey... outside hockey... Never seen any other goalies for good causes in Canada. .. not once. That's the state I know of the most his character.

[@kode-man23]

Hasek was literally that guy that you were talking about that made you nervous, flopped around in the net, maybe his numbers were good, but you just didn't trust him or think that his style could be sustainable. But then he kept it up for an entire career. He was the guy that "well he only saved 26 out of 30 shots, but all four of those goals were right in front of the net, what was he supposed to do?" would save 29 out of those same 30. Or all 30. Basically he wasn't human, and I feel blessed to have been able to witness him do his thing in the late 90's and early 2000's.

[@daledemanchuk7920]

tony 0 was my hero when i was a kid many years ago-and i ended up being a goalie-still trying to play to this very day....

[@Tomatohater64]

Espo was my favorite goalie. With the likes of Rob Holland, Gordie Laxton, and many others, we didn't have truly solid goalies in Pgh. for a long time. But then again, Pgh hockey before Mario was pretty pedestrian. I remember vividly going to games in the 70s at the old Civic Arena when the attendance was maybe 6, 7, 8,000. You could literally arrive 30 minutes before game time, plunk down 7-9 dollars, and get a seat directly behind the glass anywhere in the arena. And the entire arena would fill with the blue haze of cigarette smoke in minutes.

[@jonathanhall218]

Hasek had 6 vezinas in 8 years while playing in the same League as Roy and Brodeur. He always destroyed my Leafs in the 90's. Always #1 goaltender in my mind.

[@matthewdaley746]

@Dan Evertt Too bad the Sabres, caved in to his petty demand to fire Ted Nolan.

[@TimestampGuy2020]

That is hard to argue against

[@Alex-vr4wu]

Agree, the Dominator is the GOAT.

[@JohnDoe-eu1lc]

Huge takeaway: Hasek and Luongo rarely had the offense in front of him to get them the goals to win.

[@janoycresva1930]

Hasek was the best, it was his insane style and skill that got the amazing %. He also played alone in Buffalo for some time.

[@matthewdaley746]

@@zephyr9031 He was spineless enough to get Ted Nolan fired.

[@embryon1111]

Yes - it was just him and the equipment manager I think??? lmao!

[@matthewdaley746]

@@embryon1111 T+You're right, the team should have stood up for its Jack Adams winner, but, ONE player out of TWENTY-FIVE dictated policy! Said player wound up leaving anyway.

[@answeris4217]

Peca was alright solid two way player and I liked his play plus he could deliver the big hit at times and take them too. I also loved Mat Barnabe. It's hard to get your teeth knocked out with a smile on your face. I also think their defence was underrated they definitely struggled offensively. Look without Hasek... They would have probably beat out Ottawa for worst team in the league.

[@answeris4217]

@@pilotamurorei I see Barnabi as an agitator and one of the best to ever play in my mind. He is the type of guy that you loved on your team and hated when you player against him

[@dajusta87]

Should have a stat called “games stolen” !!

[@heliumtrophy]

They're working on that one no doubt.

[@matthewdaley746]

@@heliumtrophy Grant Fuhr likely leads in the category of, "biggest career mirage."

[@centralhockey12]

That would be a fun stat but then again there would be debates with some games if a goalie truly stole a game. Some games it’s blatantly obvious a goalie stole a game but others where you can debate that he didn’t

[@kylespencer7756]

Well they do keep track of quality scoring chances. Maybe they could do something like, if a goalie faces a certain amount of quality scoring chances, and has a save % of x or better from those quality scoring chances, and his team wins, it's called a game stolen.

[@Roller11111]

Or better yet "series stolen". Really cool to see a goalie winning a series on his own when the team was supposed to get killed.

[@steverochon1620]

That was a fascinating discussion. I was aware of hockey in Chicago from Glenn Hall through Denis DeJordy, but when they acquired Tony Esposito, I was locked in. He was the reason I became a goaltender and there was none better until Dryden came sling and broke our hearts in 1971.

[@mlucc5]

Isn’t Henrik Lundqvist’s career save percentage .918, why isn’t he on that list.

[@adawg1125]

hes active i guess price is also not there either

[@johnnycto7576]

@@adawg1125 Yeah but Bobrovsky is on there

[@adawg1125]

@@johnnycto7576 good point

[@aristoteles6265]

There are several active and retired goalies not included in the list. If all of them were included, Lundqvist would be somewhere around 16th or so. Not worth mentioning, don't you think?

[@mlucc5]

Aristoteles what I thought to myself was why would Fuhr be on the list if he doesn’t top any stats but people with higher save percentages aren’t

[@brandonnarayan5796]

Save percentage Quality shots save percentage Save percentage when your team is within 1 or 2 goals of the opponent (either leading or trailing)

[@answeris4217]

Playoffs...

[@nyrgaming3091]

Brandon Narayan Hank would be up there.

[@Chris-gv6ll]

wheres lundqvist on the save percentage list, he has a .918

[@ColeTalksHockey67]

Chris the Gamer Same with Andersen

[@MrFreddy123]

Same with Price, .918 career save pct.

[@ghostspectre1861]

Bower saved pucks with his teeth. And played till his mid-forties. Legend.

[@BrianDBoyd-do7iu]

Shannon, the only thing I love more than your hockey takes, and your stellar personality. Is your cats in the background of every video in the new set up

[@williambrecheen7366]

Esposito. Can also make the argument of smaller pads, smaller gloves, smaller jerseys, chest protectors, etc for the goalies who played a while back. Another great video.

[@exeter1985]

Any list of any kind, especially in sports, people will disagree about because most people judge by favoritism and not by evidence and facts.

[@embryon1111]

When the greatest goaltender debate pops up, three faces automatically populate my brain - Marty Brodeur, Patrick Roy, and Darren Pang!!!! Nice clip!!! :o)

[@matthewdaley746]

Two out of three ain't bad.

[@jgriffith5667]

Wasn’t Johnny Bower a NHL rookie ar age 29, and he played to age 45? Wow! Continued with Toronto as a coach, and signed a 1 game contract at age 56 when Toronto goalies all feigned illness so they could see him play. 😎 I remember seeing Gump Worsely play without a mask as a MN Northstar. A different time. Dryden, Glenn Hall, Plante, all were great.

[@aleisnotreal]

Why isn’t Lundqvist on the save %? He has a career .918

[@fevangelista1944]

Alex Procaccino same with Price

[@aamocryp]

Because after the top 10 overall there's only some picks - mostly ones who are named as great goaltenders, not current but all time

[@nathanielcava4128]

Personally as a goalie, I feel like save percentage best represents stats. You could have terrible defense and get shelled with shots and have a 3.00 goals against average but could make a majority of saves and have a .900 save percentage or above and be solid.

[@carolmckee8456]

All of these goalies are great in their own way- always liked watching old Cujo clips. Brodeur too. My faves are always the scrappy guys, and Roy is certainly in that camp. Billy Smith was fun to watch. Fleury may not be a hall-of-famer but I love his game. Flopping around may not be the most efficient style, but every save looks amazing. :) Gotta love the goalies- they're a weird bunch.

Dryden was my hero when I was young. IMO, Hasek was the most talented, and Roy the most dependable. Belfour is my favourite of all time. All due respect for Tretieak and Palmateer. Oh, and Cujo.

[@kradz3667]

I'm a die-hard Devils fan so I think Broduer is the best ever. That said, Hasek and Roy are right there (I put Hasek ahead of Roy but that's just me not liking Roy and his demeanor). I also watched Broduer the most and he made some absolutely amazing saves when it mattered most. So did Roy, and Hasek was like watching a goalie trying to stop Jackson Pollack's paint from hitting the canvas and succeeding and it was incredible to see. It's sad that Schneider got hurt and didn't give himself the time to heal properly. People don't realize how good, hell, great he was before he got hurt. He was fantastic in Vancouver but even better as a Devil where his first years with the team he played in front of a really bad team and his numbers were stellar. I really hope that the end of this past season wasn't a mirage and that Schneider has found his game again. He seems to be there physically and just as important he was there mentally. He didn't seem concerned going post to post and getting hurt. I think that trepidation was there and it was understandable. But if he plays like he did at the end of last season the Devils will surprise a lot of people. Shannon, this channel (as well as getting older) has made me realize to just enjoy the sport. Yes, I want my team to win and yes I'm going to get angry when calls don't go the way they "should" for the team I cheer for, but we should all just appreciate the talent in the NHL. How good Crosby is, how good Ovi is, how good of a story St. Louis winning the cup was, how electrifying McDavid is, and so on. Let's enjoy it. Hockey is the best it's ever been. Let's just enjoy. Also, something something Gritty.

[@ryantrylsson6462]

As a goalie. It's so tough to determine a statistic to argue either side for a goalie. I think maybe not a mainstream statistic but something that should be recorded, Grade A save percentage. Shots stopped in the slot, off a rush, or on a breakaway. A team can throw 30 shots from the perimeter and bloat up your save percentage. See BRIAN Elliott in St Louis. I think that would give you the best evaluation of a goaltenders ability. But that's just me.

[@PittsburghFan]

Shannon you should do the top 10 defensive pairings of all time! That way it’s not just the best defenseman, it has to be 2 greats. I’m not a New Jersey fan but Scott Stevens And niedermayer have to be one of the top pairings ever.

[@alex_sceptionqc1175]

Larry Robinson, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, best defence ever

[@matthewdaley746]

@@alex_sceptionqc1175 Without any doubt!

[@andyholland2130]

When quantifying goaltenders wins, I look at win percentage over the total number of games won. It really shows how great Dryden was as well.

[@paltfest]

Interesting topic and I agree that its hard to determine the one goalie to rule them all. I would like to see a similar video about defensemen, they kinda have the same dilemma as goalies.

[@andrewwilken9725]

Carey Price is currently at a .918 with 321 wins out of 624 games played and Jonathan Quick is .914 with 309 wins out 602 games played. Crazy how similar those guys are, and if they’re able to sustain that for another 3-5 years will be a part of this conversation. Both playing for mediocre/poor teams except for the couple years the Kings were great. Also, anyone else remember John Vanbiesbrouck. I remember him being among the best for a time in the 90’s. No clue if I just thought that as a kid or he actually was.

[@jahmanoog461]

Dryden is deserving of much respect. Good to see you point out some statistical indicators w a little depth. I want a goalie who can (nearly) win a playoff series by himself-- to STEAL a Stanley Cup. Hasek had the heart. McClain almost stole the Rangers series. Fleury stoned DTW, in DET. To be an unbeatable wall. Saves above league average is a telling stat, so what if Espositos 0.910 is 'way down here'? Yes, rankings are meaningless and unnecessary, our desire to do it must be ingrained. Certainly. The all time best is included in multiple categories in these top statistical indicators. Brodeur is top ten. I find your reasoning for CUJO H OF compelling.

[@mikepoint4983]

That’s a great question ! Look at Eddie the eagle, fuhr , tukko , Roy are just a few of a LONG list . But I must say SAVE PERCENTAGE and consistency because they have one job to do stop the puck ! . However there is so many moving parts / strong points to this discussion . Cheers

[@sunsandersii]

Lundqvist has a . 918 career SV%

[@answeris4217]

I saw highlights of Glen Hall... Boy was he good. Dryden only played hockey to pay for his law degree... Think how good he would have been if he was serious about hockey.

[@KevinWindsor1971]

Gump Worsley having a .9139 save% is remarkable considering he played his first 10 years for an absolutely miserable Rangers team. A reporter once asked him which team gave him the most trouble. His answer was "the New York Rangers"'.

[@chrishassan6263]

I think the best stat you can use to asses the best goalie is save percentage in losses vs career win percentage.

[@ChristopherMangels]

Eddie the Eagle actually was one of the most legendary ski jumpers of all time!

[@matthewdaley746]

Pretty legendary goaltender as well.

[@ChristopherMangels]

@@matthewdaley746 👍 and both were active in the same era

[@willington-r9b]

This video illustrates why THG is the greatest hockey channel of all time!! 😄

[@wolfdreams1545]

Dominik Hašek is the greatest goaltender of the modern era (1990-present). That should not even be a debate.

[@petermontagnon4440]

My nephew has watched me and has called me Tony O. He loves the way I play. He was in the OHL as well. So it is a great compliment. I do use my second name, Anthony, or Tony. It really is a matter of opinion. I have also been told I look like Hasek . But I have been playing a lot longer that him.

[@Waty8413]

I think there needs to be some sort of way to take into account long careers with deteriorating save percentages near the end. Conversely, total wins can be padded while skill deteriorates. Actually, these factors are true of most statistical comparisons.

[@starwars101917]

personally my top Goalies of all time are 1) Patrick Roy (Aves, especially when they had great people like Sakic, Forsberg, Hejduk, Foote, hell even Selanne and Kariya. plus its my hometown team) 2) Jean-Sébastien Giguère (The Ducks, yeah i know he played for the aves too but that '03 Conn Smythe was magical.) 3) Marc Andre-Fleury (The Pens, yeah i know they win but i liked the pens even before i knew who mario lemieux was so.)

[@bdeitur]

In a similar vein... To me, the top three of all time are Hasak, Roy and Brodour. And although that's the order I put them in, that's only my opinion. I have no problem with anyone else changing the order. But I recognize that I can't make a judgement on goalies from an earlier age. And I do give save percentage a greater weight in the decision.

[@priestlyyhd9595]

Hasek is the most impactful and dominant goalie of all time and I don’t think it’s close.

[@prezidentjeff]

Priestlyy HD Facts

[@mjk06]

For me it's Hasek....carried a pretty poor Buffalo franchise. So many personal trophies. Came over late in his career so that held him back in terms of games/wins etc etc. Some of his season stats are insane! I put Sawchuk up there too as his stats for that era were amazing!

[@KnightGallant]

There was a book ("The Hockey Compendium") that argued Hasek was the best goalie of all time (the authors were from Buffalo), and they created a metric to help explain this. Essentially, the idea is to weight save percentage and average shots faced to give a true value of a goalies importance. They called this "Perseverance". At the time, they didn’t have an accurate measure for shots against (they divided shots faced by minutes played). For those curious, their formula is as follows: save percentage X 600 + shots per game = z z divided by.6 = Perseverance I think something like that, which calculates high danger changes or volume of work a goalie has to do is good, but there are intangibles to being a goalie that advanced stats can't explain. Goalies are Voodoo.

[@BrodieBr0]

I agree with your assessment Shannon....but you know the one stat that is at the top of GM's lists these says? Height.... lol Dryden though...he's my pick as best. He's near the top of the list in save % in an era with little defence, and less goaltender equipment.

[@aidanmclaughlan6050]

IMO Martin brodeur was the best goaltender of all time, not just because of how good he was but how he defined and era in hockey and how everyone knew, when they planted New Jersey that they were gonna have to bring their A game. Nowadays i think carey price is the best in the league as he is just absolutely amazing and especially behind an average but getting better Canadiens and besides that down year his save percentage is .919 I believe. And he still has quite a career left

[@nicolaslahky3319]

IMO Hasek is the best and it's not even close for me. Marty had an awesome team around him while Hasek carried the poor Sabres. Swap them and Hasek is unbeatable in NJ while Brodeur's numbers go down in Buffalo

[@dmonsef]

My argument for SV% that it's not always a good indicator because if 2 goalies have a 2.00 GAA, but one goalie only faces 20 shots per game(Brodeur comes to mind many times) and the other goalie faces 30+ shots per game(Hasek did that a lot), is it fair to say the goalie who faces less shots should be penalized for not being as good? If you ask a lot of goalies at different playing levels, most will tell you it's harder facing very few shots as opposed to facing a lot of shots. From my experience of 27 years playing as a goalie, I can tell you that the more shots I faced in a game the better I got.

[@harrykim9914]

Rather than overall stats..i prefer looking at performance under the circumstances. Ex: Playoffs>regular season Worst team>best team Division played Games played Etc..

[@shaman2384]

Whatever Tim Thomas did, should be closely studied by young upcoming goaltenders. And I'm not even close to being a bruins fan.

[@answeris4217]

Thomas was a great Goalie. If you are studying technique Today's goalies are 100% better positionally. Look at a guy like Price. If you are looking for Pure tallent. Go back and watch Hasek. No joke the guy was literally standing on his head. You almost NEVER saw a bad bounce go in. The guy was insane. If you are looking at innovative. Take a look at Glen Hall then at Esposito then at Roy and then at Price and if you want to see what it would have looked like then take a look at Fuhr

[@alex_sceptionqc1175]

Look at Ken Dryden. He played in the seventies, an era where scoring was MUCH higher than in Hasek's time, and yet they both are number 1 all-time for career sv% (0.922, tied for first all-time, according to hockey reference) and Dryden's GAA is only 0.04 higher than Hasek (2.24 to Hasek's 2.20). You see, during the 8 seasons of Dryden's career, the average goals scored per game by a team was 3.30, and in the 15 seasons of Hasek career, the average was 2.94.This means that Dryden's GAA was 1.06 below league average, while Hasek's was 0.74 below league average. Hasek has 6 Vezinas in 15 years ,Dryden has 5 in 7 years. Also, Dryden's win percentage (258-57-74) is waaaaaaaay higher than Hasek's(389-223-95). And yes that last one is partly due to the teams they played on, but not entirely. Imagine if Dryden played the number of games Hasek or Brodeur did, he would've completely shattered all records and would maybe be remembered as the greatest player to ever play the game (yes, you read that correctly). If my math is correct, and I believe it is, if Dryden would've played as many games as Brodeur, he would've had a mind-blowing 823 wins and only 181 losses (btw I'm using Brodeur as an example just because he played a shitload of games). If Dryden had played the number of games Hasek did, his record would look like this: (478-105-152), which is freaking impressive. So for my money the best goalie to ever play is Dryden (or maybe Roy for being a god in the playoffs). But Hasek was still freaking unbelievable and definitely comes third after Dryden and Roy (in any order)

[@dmonsef]

Dryden played with loaded Habs roster, Hasek had a mostly shit roster playing in front of him!

[@alex_sceptionqc1175]

@@dmonsef as Shannon said, the year he went away, the Habs weren't a monster like in the rest of the seventies. But, still gotta admit, Savard - Lapointe - Robinson was probably the best defence ever

[@seanmagee471]

this is alot like trying to find out who is the greatest defensive catcher of all time in MLB.

[@davidmorris6254]

Is there an equalized save % that accounts for the era they played in? That would give you a better sense of true save %

[@dwaynedevine8331]

Hey Hockey Guy, Here's a stat for you...Roy played 1029 games with 460 goals saved above avg. which equals 45% (when dividing 460 by 1029). Compare Dryden at 397 games with gsaa of 317. That's a whopping 80%. Esposito and Hasek are both 56% and Parent at 53% followed then by Roy.

[@patricklafontaine5969]

I always though Roy and Hasek were the best goalies. Roy owned the bank I went to and got pictures with him. Great guy.

[@christopher6969]

Answer rhe question properly or learn to read English, the title is not asking who's the best goalie. It asks which Statistic proves goaltending greatness::: which one?

[@aramondehasashi3324]

Roy owns a bank?

[@patricklafontaine5969]

@@aramondehasashi3324 He either owned that branch or invested there . This is what was said when I was like 12.

[@ericthomsen9644]

Perhaps starting for the same team for 10 years or more might be a qualifier. After all, most teams don't trade a worthy goaltender away and they keep him for a long time. Defenses can vary, but consistency wins your place in net.

[@harrisonotton6715]

Cory Schneider is the greatest goaltender of all time

[@matthewdaley746]

@@zephyr9031 No that maintenance guy was cooler. They didn't call him, "The Super," for nothing!

[@nathanlarson310]

Dryden was dominant, the year he sat out, the Canadiens were out in the first round. He only played 8 years but won the Cup 6 times during those 8 years. Forgotten legend in my opinion

[@matthewdaley746]

He's not forgotten anywhere that I know of.

[@nathanlarson310]

Matthew Daley Meant in terms of new/younger fans

[@matthewdaley746]

@@nathanlarson310 That's unfortunate.

[@ninaanette80]

I made my own math formula two seasons ago. Before season start. If all Goalies played 1266 games as Brodeur did. What would their win total be. Dryden would end up with over 850 wins. I think Holtby. Vasi and Murray snuck in behind him. At that time Vasi and Murray had a low number of starts but high win total, so their number are distorted. I just moved so i do not know where i have all the paper work. I also did a career shot avarage. Esposito had most shots on goal, think it was 30,3 or something. Brodeur and somebody else had lowest 26,something. I'll see if i can find my nerd schedules somewhere.

[@williamsimpson899]

I am 73 years now and have watched hockey for 66 of those years I also played the game since I was 16 mostly in pickup games I was a goalie from 25 to 40. Years .The older goalies had so much different equipment than today leather pads that would gain weight from getting wet catches gloves were basically first baseman gloves maby no masks how does anyone compare the value of who's the goat tough call I like that you are trying by the way my top 5 are Hasek Roy Esposito Brodoure Hall

[@markroberts9577]

Need to come up with a way to have a scoring rating system. Like same percentage get so many points. Wins gets so many points shutouts get so many points and see who comes out on top that way

[@rodchallis8031]

Stat not used: Most Stanley Cups: Jacques Plante and Ken Dryden with 6 each. Grant Fuhr with 5 after them. Stat I would look at: Save Percentage over league average for each year and totaled. Not saying it's end all be all, but it might account for different eras when comparing goalies from, in this case, over 6 decades.

[@matthewdaley746]

Turk Broda won five Cups, and, unlike Grant Fuhr, his team never won in spite of him.

[@cruelestxbl5073]

Remember when Canucks had both Schneider AND Luongo? Good times.

[@wolfdreams1545]

Yep. Before Kesler had to be a dirtbag.

[@maxrates]

Easier to have a better save percentage nowadays with so much more equipment. Dryden and Plante probably have the best stats if you adjust by era. The secret to Montreal's success over the years have been goaltenders like that.

[@Nickleblanc41]

Talking about shootouts isn't it weird that OT and SO wins count towards the all time wins record, but OT and SO loss don't count towards the all time loss record

[@ulrichsuter3548]

Very interesting topic and discussion! knowing a Stanley Cup winning goalie myself I got to understand the position of the goalie a little bit - yet, let's be honest - I might have barely scratched the surface. It is the most complex and difficult position in ice hockey if not all sports... Respect to anyone pulling the mask down to catch some rubber. There can't be one metric to determine who was the best ever. The position has always to be looked at in context of the period the goalie was playing in. Save %??? Really??? how do you include the absence of the redline offside or the development of the goalie equipment into save %??? Rinne or Bishop cover about 180% to 200% of the area Plante did with his equipment. How do you factor in the skaters equipment developments?? Sticks etc... The list could go on and on....still, there might be the argument of won cups or tournament wins since I believe the mental toughness is coming out the most when a ton of chips are on the table.

[@johnmulkerrin3978]

Patrick Roy's playoff wins are by far the greatest of any NHL goalie. That stat is his biggest standout stat. Some might say that playoffs are more important than the regular season because teams truly play their best. Of course not everyone gets into the playoffs, but in reality hockey is a team game. So perhaps the best goalie of all time is the one standing behind someone like Scott Stevens.

[@BoyNamedSue4]

Goaltending above all else relies on the eye test. For my money Hasek was the best while Roy was the most dominant.

[@answeris4217]

When your nickname was Dominator... You know you are good. How can you pass the eye test when nobody ever played like you before though???

[@NyRangersfan1357]

goaltending more than any other position really requires the eye test. Ive seen games were a goalie had under .800sv% and they were the only reason the team was in the game

[@juhomantynen4638]

Tuukka Rask 4th in all time save%? Now I truly hope he has great regular seasons above .920 so he could possibly climb to 2nd or even 1st place.

[@lorndarken]

I measure a goalies greatness by taking in their goals against and save percentage and measure who the defense was at the time in front of them . and going by who had the best save , and goals against behind the worst defense . thats how you take into account . also defensive scheme is also important ! if that defense was not playing a trap or collapse is also important !

[@richjakubiak3374]

Goalie gear has to play into the numbers; mask? better chest protection? huge leg pads?

[@psychodadjesse]

Shannon does amazing with these videos

[@johnwade7760]

No clue who is best. My favorites are Esposito, Broduer, & Hasek. I'll take any one of those 3 and be very happy. The two that scared me the most were Roy, Dryden and Richter. Hated my team playing those guys in the playoffs.

[@gunsmithbasic]

Maybe something like save percentage multiplied by average league scoring

[@checubanil7385]

Fair choice Shannon. If someone has to take it from Hasek it’s got to be Roy, as one who propels the team to victory by inspiring, motivating and leading.

[@Zach-lc6bs]

need a save%+ stat so we can so who year by year is most above average. hasek in the 90s was way ahead of the next guy some years

[@bobkuboske6494]

As much as I hate to say it, I can't believe Vernon wasn't talked about in this, he pretty much made the redwings dynasty in the 90s. And vanbeesbruck, ( don't know how spell it), and potvin have to be on the cusp. However Fleury has got to be in the conversation if you just talk about playoff performance. I think Roy has got to be number one if you're talking about a goalie that could win a series by himself. I watched him do it in 2001 and he did it multiple times before that. The only goalies I've seen do it since are quick, halak, holtby, bishop, and Andersen (ducks in case I spelled it wrong). If I'm ranking best goalies of all time I'm looking at who they beat in the playoffs by standing on their own almost. Anything pre avalanche is up to debate for me because I haven't watched hockey before the avs started.

[@zors5188]

Why Price isn't in the ''career save%'' ?

[@masssification]

Hasek is the clear number one, common... The skill he showed and the fact he did playing in Buffalo. His career save % is insane! and wins he's up there, too as he didn't play nearly as much (735 GP) as Brodeur (1266 GP in 22 seasons!) or Roy (1029 GP). So #1 Hasek #2 Roy, very close I'd admit that, and then all the rest of them. Case closed, or not... ahaha

[@matthewdaley746]

Not quite, Hasek never won until he left the Sabres.

[@masssification]

@@matthewdaley746 You're right. However, winning is a team effort... He carried his (average) team into the Playoffs, but he couldn't score the goals you know.

[@willie9397]

to me there is no way to determine who the best is unless a goalie had really good numbers on a bad team, mental toughness is the most crucial aspect of a goalies game, a goalie that doesn't get rattled easily

[@elwizschold]

Top ten all time looking at save %, including active ones who have played more than 200 games (which isn't alot, granted): Hasek Dryden Gibson Rask Bishop Thomas Vasilveski Bobrosky Schneider Cechmanek

[@elwizschold]

That is, using: www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-goalies-all-time-save-percentage-leaders.html

[@rodchallis8031]

Goalie not mentioned, whose numbers don't indicate stellar play is Ed Giacomin. (65/66 to 77/78) But I think fans of teams other than the Rangers really didn't like it when their teams played the Rangers with Giacomin in net. I know I didn't. There was no hoping for a bad night out of him, or a softie or two. Big fan favorite with the NYR.

[@dominicbelleyweb]

Pekka Rinne will probably reach Top 10 in Wins the first. Price won't win enough and Holtby is trailing too much.

[@LordMcQuack]

The best goaltender I ever saw was Dominik Hasek

[@Adam202]

Honestly I don't think I have ever been able to say who I think is the best goaltender of all time. Does there have to be a best of all time? How about we just say there are quite a few who could be considered among the best of all time?

[@andyholland2130]

Hasek, Esposito, Sawchuk, Roy, Dryden. Top 5 goalies in no particular order. All could take the claim greatest all time.

[@dorientjewoller113]

Same opinion can be used in the conversation of who is the best defense man. Is it the one who makes the assists and occasional goals or the one who rams his stick in the ice and shouts "THY SHALL NOT PASS" aka stopping the other team from passing, breaking through, scoring goals by interfering the play in anyway possible.

[@hockeyinalabama]

Goaltending has undergone the biggest change of any position in my opinion. That makes it hard to compare. Then, goalies are the most susceptible to being affected by team play (once again, IMO). Maybe what's the save percentage in scoring chances? Even then, it could come down to the danger of those. Maybe there isn't a good way.

[@chickenofthesea4558]

I love Tim Thomas, not just for his goaltending but because he had the courage to take a stand for his Christian values despite the attacks from media.

[@matthewdaley746]

Nice try, you don't have to LIKE the President, but you do have to PRETEND to like the President, FOR ONE DAY! Not to mention that by abandoning his teammates he likely cost them a second Cup in 2013.

[@chickenofthesea4558]

@@matthewdaley746 Really? You have to abandon your principles and be dishonest and pretend to like someone who hates everything you stand for?

[@chickenofthesea4558]

@@matthewdaley746 ...it wasn't enough that Tim Thomas won the Stanley Cup, it wasn't enough that he was a great goalie, he has to be a spineless liar to be a good teammate?

[@chickenofthesea4558]

@@matthewdaley746 If you're an evil person, I'm not going to pretend to like you just because you're the President. That's idiotic, sounds like something an atheist or a liberal would say, you have no principles, pathetic.

[@matthewdaley746]

@@chickenofthesea4558 It wasn't even Trump in the White House so you're arguments are all DOA. Plus, it also made him look like a racist.

[@macmasks]

For myself, I look at my save percentage over the wins but I'm playing beer league. Not sure you can ever have a purely stat-driven, best-ever choice. The differences in eras and how the games were played are just too great. Growing up in Chicago and watching hockey starting in the late 80's, Belfour was the greatest ever (for me). Doesnt mean I dont give a grown when i see Hasek at the top of the lists. Roy and Fuhr kept Chicago from so many Cups that I cant ... see? goes on and on.

[@davedundee2350]

What was the average save% back when sawchuk played tho? He was dominant.

[@Qwhat9]

Win% could help refine the wins stat.

[@Jay87539]

I think Tugnutt once had 73 saves against our Bruins.

[@denvitaranden]

In your other video about your favourite goalie, you used a stat games with 40 shots against. Shouldn't save percentage in those kind of games matter. E g how good save pct when faced 40 shots, 35 shots, 30 shots. The more shot the harder the job, right? That vid opened my eyes a bit and made me rate Joseph much more.