What the Hell is Tullimonstrum?!

A classic, What the Hell is it fossil, we look at Tullimonstrum, and some of the different pieces of evidence which have led scientists to get closer to the answer of what kind of animal it even is. A question that's had researchers scrtching their heads, new methods, and lasers have helped solve the mystery. But why it was so strange is still a good question, and we answer at least some of those questions as well.

[@NomicFin]

The weirdest thing about this thing is the period it lived in. I mean, if you said it's from the Burgess Shale, I'd just go "oh, another weird Cambrian early metazoan", but the Tullimonstrum is far younger, meaning it has to either be related to some of the modern animal phyla, or an example of a very long ghost lineage.

[@michaeldavidfigures9842]

Are we all absolutely convinced this is an individual animal, and not just the appendage of some larger animal? Parts of animalocaris were classified as individual organisms entire until a complete fossil was found. Only then did taxonomists realize they had been misclassifying what were no more than the appendages of a larger creature.

[@pupyfan69]

@@michaeldavidfigures9842 we have a LOT of tullimonstrum fossils, so its unlikely that they all got removed in the same way if they were appendages

[@michaeldavidfigures9842]

@@pupyfan69 It is a very strange beast.

[@tsm688]

@@michaeldavidfigures9842 Back when they were misclassifying anomalocaris bits, they didn't have the geochemical evidence we're now using to group species and parts together.

[@michaeldavidfigures9842]

@@tsm688 So I am assuming that by geochemical evidence researchers are coaxing bits of DNA from the rock matrix and taxonomists are grouping these organisms together that way?

[@Erikuzuma]

A while ago I showed a picture of a Tully monster to my cousin and she burst out laughing uncontrollably. Apparently she finds the cute little guy funny.

[@RaptorChatter]

It's friend shaped

[@FwogrealMSM]

Like sacabampasbis😊

[@guidedmeditation2396]

This is truly the most mind bending and weird actual creature I have ever seen. I have been admiring it for years for its weirdness and I recall first thinking it was a screenshot from the SPORE computer game where you get to create new creatures and select their features. When you think of it as a type of squid it seems to make a little more sense. While we are used to them a squid is equally weird.

[@StonedtotheBones13]

Omg it would so fit in spore

[@alexw.7097]

We recently had a dog start at our daycare named "Tullie" and I CANNOT see her/talk about her without thinking about Tullimonstrum, I've started calling her Tully Monster just for that.😂

[@jordanwhite352]

I love that this real-life prehistoric animal is more alien than the goddamn blue cat people from Alpha Centauri in Avatar.

[@supergingerr]

The platypus: Gods sense of humor The Tully monster: Oh no God got a hold of spore

[@thegrimreaper9552]

I just realized this creature looks like it literally came directly out of spore

[@heathrowell378]

My first gut reaction to it when I saw the artist's render was "Some kind of ... proto-mollusk maybe..." specifically because of that body shape. But at the same time, even then, I was thinking "What the hell is with those holes, though?" and I couldn't shake the feeling that the secret to what this thing is related to probably truly hinged on identifying what those hole structures were. As soon as he showed the picture of the lamprey with the same structures on it, I was like "motherf... he's right. It's a cartilagenous vertebrate, beyond a shadow of a doubt!" What's really unsettling to me is how we'd be completely unaware of tullimonstrum if it wasn't for the hyper-absurd levels of sedimentary deposits happening in this specific area, at this specific time in history. It makes me wonder what other truly bizarre forks off of family trees and even, possibly, entire shadow biomes existed on earth but went extinct and are lost to time specifically because they were similarly made of non-fossilizing strangestuff during otherwise entirely typical periods and environments that didn't preserve them like this river did to tullimonstrum.

[@zzxp1]

For real, walking around through the past would be a mind blowing experience.

[@conner13.c16]

Everyone is asking what is Tullimonstrum but nobody asks how is Tullimonstrum

[@RaptorChatter]

Well, it last lived 300 million years ago. So it's not going great.

[@louieburnham8090]

Extinct

[@zzxp1]

He ded

[@Hiljaa_]

I mean he is dead

[@viccolasvic9461]

I love that we've only narrowed it down to "vertibrate"

[@RaptorChatter]

Even then we may not have, a new paper this past month suggests that maybe non-vertebrate chordate, or an early protostome, which means it could be related to molluscs or worms or arthropods. It basically just puts everything back into the realm of possibility.

[@violetlight1548]

Cool video. I've always liked Tully's Monster/Tullimonstrum, ever since I first saw it mentioned in a book in my grade school library as a possible candidate for the Loch Ness Monster. Obviously it isn't haunting any modern day Scottish lakes, but it's still a cool and interesting animal, whatever its classification. Thanks for this video!

[@26th_Primarch]

I've read that book too!

[@robertgotschall1246]

Hearing about Tullimonstrum reminds me of my nephew reading the Harry Potter stories. He had to wait months and years for the next installment. It’s amazing what they an do with fossils these days. Thinking of this thing as a basal lamprey makes sense but not definitively so. Keep on truckin.

[@RaptorChatter]

Apparently there was a presentation at a conference this week where the presenter's entire idea was basically "we can't tell yet, we might want to put effort into other questions" lol. So while there's some evidence it definitely isn't seen as conclusive by the community.

[@richardp2309]

Thanks god, keep us in line with your all powerful knowledge.dw

[@duhduhvesta]

Really appreciate you explaining the formation. That’s great information

[@lockaras]

This is that thing we all made in spore.

[@MichelDood]

great to have u back i love your style of videos

[@RaptorChatter]

Good to be back

[@roberttail1676]

My favorite "what the hell" guy ever appeared 😍

[@marjae2767]

BEMMIE!!! (The anatomy of Tullimonstrum is very different from Bemmius, but it still makes me think of *Boundary*.)

[@paulosullivan3472]

I suspect this was an ocean creature and the reason for the eye stalks is so that it can judge distances better, I would envisage this creature hiding in cracks in the rock etc and waiting for a small fish to swim by when it would snap out with its mouth to eat the creature. The stalks would allow it to judge the distance to the prey better.

[@RaptorChatter]

Potentially. It's still a somewhat poorly understood animal, so it's very hard to tell exactly how it may have been living.

[@26th_Primarch]

Ehhh... that depends on the complexity of its eyes. I could see it as a scavenger using it's flexible pincer-mouth tipped proboscis to reach the difficult to reach bits of meat in a pile of bones.

[@GreebleClown]

I wonder if the eye stalks could swivel, kinda like how the eyes of the barreleye fish point up most of the time but swivel forward when hunting.

[@wcdeich4]

Some people think because the notochord goes past the eye stalks & down the trunk it should be a stem vertibrate

[@markykid8760]

Amazing if this is a vertebrate. Our long-lost cousin!

[@RaptorChatter]

Potentially. It could even be similar to some of the very first vertebrates, but we'd need more fossils to tell that.

[@susanfarley1332]

I didn't think I would find your talk as interesting as I did. It was fascinating!

[@RaptorChatter]

Thanks!

[@QUIRK1019]

Yay!! I *LOVE* the Tully Monster and knew this episode was inevitable

[@RaptorChatter]

It's a great example of just how weird evolution can go.

[@QUIRK1019]

@@RaptorChatter I love your channel!

[@robertmoye7565]

Interesting video, but no size scale was provided. It apparently reached a length of about 35 centimeters.

[@RaptorChatter]

Whoops! I normally try to include them, but must have missed it. Sorry.

[@chaosopher23]

The spiracles on his side say "I'm a relative of lampreys." Its proboscis says it ate worms. Segmentation is everywhere in the water, because it works. Now, where did this estuary dump into? Where is its source? Perhaps there are other relatives in the fossil record, there, too. I see no reason why humans shouldn't begin mining for fossils. We need to know!

[@RaptorChatter]

So it's from the greater Catskill delta, which flowed of the ancestral Appalachians. That region today has very few sections of rock like this exposed because of both later deposition by the Western Interior Seaway to the south, and large scale erosion by glaciers in the north.

[@garybobst9107]

Dang, Bubba..cut the line,cut the line!!!

[@TheEudaemonicPlague]

I'm amused by the Tully Monster for a couple of reasons...one, it's from Illinois, and two, back in the early 80s, our local science fiction convention (which ended its run last year) runners learned that Tullamore Dew, a delightful blended Irish whiskey, had recently started being available again. They went to every liquor store in the area and bought every bottle available. There was a connection between this whiskey and some of the authors who were regulars. Anyway, it's been nicknamed "Tully" for decades, and is one of my favorite drinks. I can't help but put the monster and the whiskey together in my mind. Maybe we can convince the makers of Tullamore Dew to use the Tully monster in advertising or something? It's driving me nuts that people can't seem to come to a solid conclusion about the critter--but I'm leaning toward vertebrate.

[@Shaden0040]

The aooalachians used to be taller than the himalayas, no wonder there was that much erosion and sediment deposited.

[@RaptorChatter]

Yeah, that whole Catskill Wedge and other associated rocks are pretty interesting when it comes to understanding the erosion of the Apps

[@kuitaranheatmorus9932]

Basically nature at its finest

[@RaptorChatter]

Certainly in some ways.

[@edgeeffect]

Not even completely sure what Phylum?? Nice!

[@denishildebrand239]

I was waiting for this! Especially whether it was vertebrate or invertebrate still controversy and debate whether it is

[@RaptorChatter]

It still is, while I definitely lean one way there was a presentation at a conference just after I released the video, which said that it's basically impossible to tell what it is. I haven't seen that talk, just seen discussion about it online.

[@denishildebrand239]

@@RaptorChatter I heard about the possibility of a notecard some yrs back then it was looked at by another group of scientists saying it's not a vertebrate? This beautiful creature. Evolution experiments works its magic and blows our minds. Keeps us thinking all the time. Like your channel 🤘👍

[@denishildebrand239]

@@RaptorChatter between web telescope finally when I heard of it in 2011 I believe? To knowing more what this oddity of evolution Have do any videos of wixwacia? Think I really butchered that name🤣

[@denishildebrand239]

@@RaptorChatter I'm kind of a fan of the cambrian explosion have you done a video of the Hallicigenia yet?

[@lukedowneslukedownes5900]

Interesting, such a weird creature

[@eduardoangelico717]

If Tullimonstrum wasn't a vertebrate, he could be a near relative like cephalocordates

[@RaptorChatter]

Yeah, there was a paper about that recently, and found that based on the structures inside it wasn't a vertebrate, but maybe a non-vertebrate chordate, or any sort of protostome, which doesn't really narrow anything down.

[@warufuz4ke]

awesome vid!

[@RaptorChatter]

Thanks!

[@mahbriggs]

I think we are going to need more specimens, hopefully better preserved and probably of different but clearly related species!

[@vladimiralexanderlagos1477]

Are Tully monster fossils exclusive to this one single dig site or have they been found anywhere else in the world? It just seems odd that even if it was a vertebrate related to lampreys it could evolve a proboscis shaped jaw and stalked eyes with zero known intermediate phases from anywhere else. That is one massive ghost lineage right there!

[@RaptorChatter]

It is only there, and a new paper just came out which suggests totally different things than what was published when this video came out, so it's very much still up for debate. Hopefully some will popup from earlier in the fossil record that can help actually answer the question.

[@kinglyzard]

Would Tullimonstrum root under the sand, or would that proboscis fire out like the lower labia of the dragonfly nymph to catch prey in the water column? Were there different species or genera of Tullimonstrum?

[@RaptorChatter]

There's still some debate about exactly how it would work, but there's a student I saw speak at the Geological Society of America meeting who is doing work on the hydrodynamics of it, which would help for figuring out some of that info! So we will probably have more of an answer for that in a few years as they finish their degree!

[@YUN6_V3NUZ]

im starting a list of SILLY LITTLE GUYS! bizzare fellas, the full volume Tullymonstrum Opabinia Hallucigenia (feel free to add)

[@b43xoit]

The attachment of the eye stalks to the body looks vulnerable.

[@rursus8354]

The problem with the Tullimonstrum is: how do you eat by that ... straw-thing?

[@christigould9829]

Thank you for your videos, very informative! I have a theory that could be plausible with this Tully creature. I have Boulders of this formation with a claw. I was thinking crab, could I email you?

[@RaptorChatter]

Sure. [e-mail] I would also recommend emailing someone at U Chicago as they have a great paleo program & are located relatively near Mazon Creek

[@davidcian4240]

What's the paper at 9:16 from Saro et al. called?

[@rayrerej9630]

Just so you know, I watch your videos specifically because they're calm, detailed, you don't yell or have weird sound effects, etc. I almost didn't click on that first thumbnail because of the "?!" and the way the title seems kind of clickbait-y. You've marketed this series in a misleading way and I think you're missing viewers because of it. Just taking the exclamation point out might be sufficient, I'm not an expert.

[@ekarus4360]

Ia this in the backround a real sea scorpion fossil ?

[@RaptorChatter]

It's a fossil Eurypterus from New York. A lot of fossils of them have been found, so some have entered trade fairly.

[@sampagano205]

What happened to the hypothesis that Tullymonstrum is a stem lamprey?

[@RaptorChatter]

That's basically what I concluded with, just not stated explicitly. If a vertebrate it would be cartilaginous like a lamprey, and potentially convergently with gnathostomes evolved a jaw, or something similar. Since the conclusion is it's probably a vertebrate it probably was a lamprey relative.

[@donnyrodenbergerjr4757]

Since just about everything that lived millions of years ago has a much smaller descendant living today, the Tully Monster has probably followed suit, only microscopic. Maybe a spore, perhaps?

[@pixynowwithevenmorebelkanb6965]

Detroit somehow changes everything near it

[@StevenHughes-hr5hp]

They probably still live in the deepest parts of the Great Lakes.

[@siamihari8717]

Earth Beta was crazy. The post Cambrian Patch really stabilized the evolutionary meta

[@InfiniteAnvil]

Yeah but this lil guy was from the Carboniferous

[@jessiesevak9127]

It's the platypus of etera. At least it seams that way to me. The platypus tree doesn't branch as well so in my opinion nature likes to mess with us

[@bkjeong4302]

What the hell, indeed, because we have no solid answer to this one yet.

[@RaptorChatter]

Yeah, apparently right after this video someone at a conference presented on Tulli saying that we might be better off asking questions we might actually get answers to.

[@admiralcat3809]

Yay, spinal squid with stalk eyes!

[@MilesSlaughter_]

Looks like something I’d make in Spore lmao

[@ZeoViolet]

It looks like an Ocarina that can clamp to an amplifier. XD

[@BartJBols]

What if the eyestalks... are wheels...

[@RaptorChatter]

Vroom.

[@maxmantell5009]

What some say the Loch Ness monster is

[@maibanez]

i don know why it remind me of Sy Snootles, from star wars return of the jedi... :B

[@RaptorChatter]

You aren't wrong, and that is my new headcannon.

[@DavidV104]

Mother nature at it's finest 👌

[@charlesjmouse]

Very interesting. Belated thought - a sufficiently well preserved eye would tell what way up the retina is constructed so definitively say mollusc or vertebrate. FWVLIW: They do look like derived lampreys to me... or maybe the reverse might be more correct.

[@RaptorChatter]

Yeah, it's really just some chemical smears on the eyes, so enough to test the potential original composition, but not enough to tell about the anatomy, which makes it harder to say what it was for sure.

[@pensador6953]

ok before i watch it all, reminds me of a squid, is that an ancestor of modern squids? A vertabrate eyes. interesting.

[@lupine.spirit]

what it was doing? its best probably

[@karlstone6011]

Could be that it's the fossilised digestive tract of a larger, soft bodied creature; a weed eating jellyfish.

[@RaptorChatter]

Not likely. But also there's reportedly someone doing so scanning electron microscope work on fossils of it, and it seems like there's cartilage which would mean it would be closer to vertebrates

[@mellisugahelenae]

The ancestor of Petromyzontiformes?🤔

[@RaptorChatter]

Probably more like a sister group than a direct ancestor.

[@dynamosaurusimperious2718]

Well this video was pretty great

[@RaptorChatter]

Thank you!

[@roberttail1676]

😍😍😍🔥🔥

[@christosvoskresye]

Please don't call it a vertebrate. It might be a chordate; it is not a vertebrate.

[@RaptorChatter]

Then show me the evidence

[@christosvoskresye]

@@RaptorChatter It's kind of the lack of evidence. Show me the vertebra. Otherwise you might as well call it a fairy and say, "Well, there's no evidence it isn't." Meh, I thought this was supposed to be a science channel, but you're using the same kind of reasoning as cryptozooligists. "Show me that the Loch Ness Monster isn't real. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence!" Yeah, it kind of is, when you can scan the whole Loch, or in this case, the whole fossil. If you look hard and don't find Nessy on several attempts, it's because Nessy isn't in that lake; and if you look hard at a bunch of fossils and only find something that MIGHT be a notochord, but no vertebra, then it's because it isn't a vertebrate. If you've got no better sense than that, you haven't earned the like OR the subscription.

[@RaptorChatter]

But the vertebrae could still be cartilaginous, and not preserved because of that. So there's reason to think it couldn't be a vertebrate, especially with the chemical evidence that is present. Now sure it technically would count as one, the same as any other vertebrate would, but I don't see reason to limit it to just a chordate based on the current evidence. And until there is something more about why it should be classified as a non-vertebrate chordate, I think I'll stick with what I put in the video. And in that video I do still mention it will be up for debate, and that other evidence could change my position. I just haven't seen anything convincing yet.

[@christosvoskresye]

@@RaptorChatter You could call it a chordate and leave it at that, because every vertebrate is in fact a chordate, but if you want to be more specific than that, the burden of proof is on you. Heck, even confidently stating that it is a chordate or any kind is more than the evidence unambiguously proves.

[@alecboi777]

a thingamabob

[@trangialinhfscdn8453]

how the heck that thing is so eww

[@kathryncarter6143]

Interesting subject matter; but I'm tired of you saying, what the hell

[@raptorsedge6866]

Snailfish.

[@ktkng]

What

[@ericbassham751]

Maybe it used it's proboscis too pull out and eat tube worms

[@thearmchairspacemanOG]

an alien slug. lol.