What to Do When Your Players DON'T GET IT | D&D | TTRPG | Web DM

Do your players ever just get lost when you're playing D&D? Do you keep giving them what you think are obvious leads and they don't seem to know what to do or don't seem interested? This is the video for you, DMs! Here's our advice on how to get your players engaged and back on track your Dungeons and Dragons and TTRPG games.
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[@WebDM]

Thank you for watching!! GET AMAZING DICE: www.kickstarter.com/projects/thatparksguy/tabletop-loot-astral-anomalies-sharp-edged-dice?ref=coxdlc GET MORE WEB DM: patreon.com/webdm

[@dyloneason6030]

I've needed this episode since my campaign started, thank you so much guys. I love your work, keep it up

[@GuardianTactician]

When my players were investigating a mystery they did not follow my pre-written notes. They found more clues than I had initially anticipated and found the same bad guy through a different route. Together we all told a better story than I had written for them. Plus, they felt smart for figuring it out, and they more than deserved it.

[@WebDM]

It's awesome when that happens!

[@TheTrueCatKing]

Sent this to my DM, because we're a party of idiots.

[@WebDM]

LOL pretty sure we've all been on both sides of this conundrum

[@OomaGooma]

Lol I sent the video to my groups messenger. We too are a group of idiots with myself being the head dumbass idiot. 😕

[@O4C209]

My group has an experienced DM, 3 writers, and a detective aficionado, and they still flounder. Most people are NOT detectives. The goal of the DM is to make the players feel smart, not to make a complex mystery.

[@thebigdawgj]

My group kicked me out for this.

[@nickclark9725]

I’m currently running a game where the party has encountered a layered mystery to be solved. The biggest help so far has been the Discord channel we made where we collect all the clues, facts, and theories pertinent to the investigation. It’s full of letters, crime scene details, names, and a map with pins marking key locations. Sometimes I “neglect” to include their senseless theories and connections, which has helped immensely.

[@stewanmaleno]

This is more useful than any "how to run a mystery" videos I've seen

[@oneofeverything1000]

I look forward to this every week! Thank you so much for helping me and so many others get through this trying time. I can't wait to start running games again and playing my favorite game. thank you Jim. thank you Pruitt. and thank you to everyone else behind the scenes who makes this show happen. words cannot describe how much it's meant to me.

[@WebDM]

Thank you so much for saying so and for watching, Nicholas! Hope you can get back to running and playing soon!

[@adam222111333]

Good on you guys for distancing! Loving your channel as a new DM deciding to homebrew a setting and campaign like some kind of story driven maniac. Always great food for thought

[@WebDM]

Woo! Go you!!!

[@MarcusVipsaniusAgrippaLXIII]

Another great video. One method I use as a DM to alleviate this is by having a DMPC with the party at critical moment like this. They are a passive entity but if the players get stuck the pc can hint or give info in an in game method.

[@michaelminugh5357]

I normally advise against DMPCs, but as a last-resort they can definitely be useful!!

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

If we're talking the gumshoe approach, I think it's fine for the party to be coordinating with a local that is participating in the investigation. They might be a low level Ranger or something, an entity with greater knowledge of the area and people which could connect dots and make minor corrective revelations as needed.

[@duhg599]

This aligns perfectly with The Three Clue Rule over at The Alexandrian. It goes something like this, “For any conclusion you want your players to come to, leave at least three clues for them to find that point in the intended direction.” thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule

[@O4C209]

Yes. This is great info. Also, never leave a vital clue to chance. (Which is a huge issue in WotC modules.) Do not have a "if they roll a perception 17 then they find this vital clue". Also, "Chekhov's Gun", where anything you introduce into the story is something usable. If there is a gun in the room either someone was shot with it, or someone will be shot with it. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

Yeah, that's a good general rule. If something is of vital importance, it needs multiple road-signs pointing in that direction. Even then that might not be enough. And yet, despite that, adding a consequence for inaction itself needs multiple road-signs and hints of said impending consequence. Which brings up a followup that players might _still_ not get it and have to suffer the consequence. Session recaps and reminders can help with that. If players have several hints at a direction, several hints at a consequence, and have discussed multiple times what those hints and consequences are, then they can only blame themselves for missing the 9+ clues pointing everything out(explicitly in the case of session recaps).

[@Ghorda9]

@@XoRandomGuyoX you could also have a long and short path, the short path if they get it, the long one if they don't.

[@DanJMW]

From my experience, players coming up with wild speculation happens when they have forgotten or discounted one of the clues that they found earlier. eg If they found a clue that suggests the culprit is an elf, then they forget about that, they may start going after the innocent dwarf or halfling. At this point you need to remind them about the forgotten clue either OOC or as an NPC. This can also happen if they fail to "decode" the clue eg it shows that the culprit was immune to sleep spells, but the players don't understand that this suggests and elf. It's tough having to do this part of the brainwork for them, so try just giving them a nudge first.

[@Jane_8319]

11:20 in my party we don’t have a cleric. So the good cop is my wizard with detect thoughts. The bad cop is the Minotaur Barbarian.

[@fakjbf3129]

Another major reason for the "Previously on...." segment at the start of a lot of serialized TV is that if you didn't see last week's episode when it aired, you didn't get a chance to see it again until the show was in its off-season and they filled air-time with old episodes. By having a short recap at the start of each episode, it was easier to get caught back up instead of being left behind and so not watching later episodes.

[@consecrated2718]

As a new DM who is wrangling in 3 first time players and myself only having watched 1 million hours of Web DM, this is suddenly the most important information I needed. Especially considering they are all video games players who are used to structure with a few choices

[@WebDM]

Glad to help! Let us know what you think. You'll all figure it out together!!

[@zenithmaiden2109]

This reply is a lil long, so sorry for that, but if it helps anyone get some ideas ima say worth. But something I've found is that, general information to progress the plot should be fairly easy to get compared to specific information intended to arm the party with an advantage in the present or future. It prevents the party from floundering super hard, but gives an in-world DM nod of approval for their excellent investigation skills that's way more subtle and arguably more useful than just "you gain a use of inspiration". The more important a piece of information is to the plot the more ways there should be for it to be discovered. So if a corrupt politician is the center of the arc you have, players should be able to uncover various aspects of his dirty ways - anything from laundering money in legitimate businesses, funding buildings to dump off cash and improve his image, hobgoblin mercenaries arriving for payment at the edge of town for god knows what, etc. It makes them feel good for discovering something, contributes to the overall picture, and feeds the party's attitude toward the plot depending on what they find. These general, important clues should give the players ideas or pointers about where they should look next. Even if they don't find *everything* it should be enough to pin the guy for a weasel, but maybe they don't know that he has friends or the exact depth of his indiscretion, which only further feeds the adventure as the world reacts to the party's actions *regardless of if the party is aware of it*. Allow the world you've crafted to breathe, but remember that unless they screw up majorly the consequences it should never appear that you are directly punishing the players for not going about things your way. Get in your NPC's shoes. How do they react to the party's actions? How much do they know of the party and what they've done? What are their resources (if any) and how do they choose to spend them? If the party is a bunch of sneaks and the NPC's don't know that, allow the party to do their thing and flee their pursuit under the radar. It lets them play how they want to play, but it lets them feel under pressure and encourages them to regroup to figure out what's going on. All of this, most importantly, gives you more exposition opportunities without another "search or suck" roll that a lot of players get frustrated by.

[@FluorescentBulb2]

This is exactly the right length for a Wednesday episode. Thanks for what all of you do!

[@FluorescentBulb2]

6 Hours later and I just now realized it is actually Thursday, whooops

[@skankmcgank]

My players got fixated on a random safety placard on a machine. When they translated it, it was still out of context, and they just kept poking around looking for whatever machine part the sign referred to. They had zero knowledge of what the machine actually did, but were determined to heed this warning label.

[@theskurj6288]

I haven't even finished this video, but I feel like there is a lot of connection to the video about player roles. Check it out. 👍🏻

[@MrMAJORzer0]

when you give you players all the clues over time and it gets to the point you tell them it's in the inn here at this location and they still chase red herrings and we forget that quest path...

[@nihilean]

entertaining and helpful content as always. thanks homies, i appreciate it

[@WebDM]

Thank you!

[@CL30]

When this comes up, I usually remind my players they can avoid some of this pain by taking detailed notes on what's happening in the sessions. I'll allow Int checks to recall information that is helpful, though notetaking is seriously underrated

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

Just keep in mind that some players might not want to treat their gameplay session like a college lecture; to the point where they'd stop playing altogether before they attempt to fill a notebook with a hundred pages of hastily scrawled notes from moment to moment.

[@allluckyseven]

If the players get it wrong, being sure about someone that isn't the actual culprit and all that.. As a GM you may be able to change the story around and do it like the players are actually correct. And just go with that. OR... You could have them imprison the wrong person, have that person be punished somehow (jailed, exiled, even killed...) and then, sometime later, find out that they were wrong. Memorable campaigns are made out of both good and bad moments. It may be good for the story for them to fail miserably.

[@ArcNeoMasato]

Still early in the video but typing cause comments help videos. lol But short version, what I've started doing for times the players "don't get it" is I've stolen the "idea roll" from Call of Cthulhu. The short version is, I'll give a player a wisdom or intelligence roll to see how much their character would have put together from a situation, basically helping the players understand what their character would understand of a given situation or trail of clues/info. I actually did this a few weeks ago for some long time experienced players who were getting kinda..... stuck in overplanning (Basically waiting for me to try and trip them up or reading way too much into things), and while I didn't give them any direct answers, I just used it to knock out some of the variables they were going over that, to their characters, wouldn't have been anything they'd worry about. This majorly streamlined the game and was something they all enjoyed. Funny enough, the biggest thing this helped with was characters overthinking magic items and such, cause they came up with literally dozens of "what if's" for anything magic they ran into, and this gave me a chance to give them the direct character info their casters would have about certain things without just butting in and cutting them off mid-think. I know this is a bit different than what you're after, but I feel like this could be connected and used as a solution here too.

[@Sorenzo]

There's this location in the Icewind Dale module where a character could stumble into an underground river and do a DC10 check to either live or get swept underwater and certainly killed, barring immediate magical intervention. I feel like that's a good test of the DM's ability or willingness to make it clear to players that "your character knows wading into this river is a really effing bad idea." IMO a DM should not refrain from voicing a character's instincts if the player seems to not understand them.

[@Clem68W]

I am currently running a group though castle amber, and I realize this is one of the module's greatest weaknesses--it's a funhouse with no plot points. My group is just sort of flopping in different rooms night after night with no direction and no purpose, slaughtering just about everything that they come across including the Ambers, so they're really not getting anywhere. My solution: I started a fire in the west wing and it is quickly burning the whole chateau down. They are now on a timer, and have surged ahead suddenly. They've even tried to save an Amber from death's icy embrace. I mean...light a fire under 'em. I laugh thinking about it.

[@Ninosai]

DMing a star wars game, my players were sent on an imperial corvet manned by droids to take it over and, if possible, find the rebel spy droid that had been sent. They find out that some droid had received maintenance and it lad a technician to find out that it had spy softwares. They ask if the droid had a specific identification/name and I said "Sure, it was, errr, RA-07-14" Right away they grab onto that and ask every other RA-07 droid their identification number like they think the spy droid is going to let them know it's a spy droid. (they failed to find the information that its programming had been messed up and it turned rogue) I finally let them find one RA-07-14 and they find nothing strange or out of the normal in its programming. I had to tell them, after they finally met and took down the rogue droid. "Yeah, there's enough droids in this ship that look the same, the imperial technicians didn't notice there were two with a similar code."

[@LordSephleon]

I once ran a Vampire: the Masquerade game for my longtime group (man, that was 11-12 years ago) that was so steeped in lore that I took it upon myself to write up a post-session synopsis specifically for the players, including any and all "clues of importance" (regardless of if they discussed the clue's importance or not) that they may have come across. At the time, I lived 3 hours from the group, so we would have 14+ hour long marathon sessions to make up for the fact that I could only come down once or twice a month to play. Do you think the players utilized the session synopsis? Half of them admitted to not reading them each time, one player admitting to "skimming" it a mere 30-60 minutes before the next session started (and this was also a habit of his), and only one player who would read it when I shared it, then reread it again before the next session. Even then, they went way off the clue-laden path, which eventually led to the Sabbat taking over the once Camarilla-led NYC, among other things. Eventually, I felt like they weren't enjoying the game and ended the campaign because they kept avoiding the real story, but when I ended it, they claimed they were having lots of fun and really didn't know that the story was in another direction. Despite my short novel of synopsis notes hinting otherwise. :/ By the way: each synopsis was Times New Roman 10 pt, single-spaced, and at least a page long for the "quieter" sessions; some of the more lore-packed sessions would easily reach 3 pages. Yeah, now I just tell players in Session Zero that they are responsible for their own notes, and if some important clue is missed due to negligence/forgetfulness, then the consequences will be as they are. I'll instead offer multiple routes to then preventing or undoing unwanted consequences (which are, in their own way, self-made plot hooks), but those routes will always be more challenging and, in some cases, deadlier than following the original clue would have been. TL;DR: Players don't always listen to/read recaps and will still derail the game even if clues are made semi-obvious by such recaps.

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

It's a sad truth that many Americans just don't like to read. You're best served treating your synopsis like a Resume: short sentences directly to the point, some actual bullet points for key concepts that can be identified in a split second, that sort of thing. If your plot has a doomsday result that ends the campaign, maybe include an actual doomsday clock and put a five to seven word summary for why it has advanced after a session.

[@LordSephleon]

XoRandomGuyoX The weird thing is that everyone in the group (myself included) are all avid readers of fantasy novels and such, with Tolkein's works, Wheel of Time, Black Company, the Vampire novels, and many many other series under their collective belts, not to mention JRPGs with lots of text like the Final Fantasy series (before X). So one would think one to three pages of summary would have been easy, especially in preparation for the next session. I never liked resume-style bullet-pointed writing in anything outside of my own personal game notes because it takes away from the immersion and it is too much of a "hammer on nail" method, something that particularly cerebral players don't always appreciate. The main problems among the players were laziness and a lack of willingness to invest a little time to keep up with the lore on their parts. I mean, they would have the synopsis available within a few days after the previous session, so it wasn't like I procrastinated in giving them what they needed, leaving them plenty of time to absorb the information at their own pace. Towards the end of the game, because they wouldn't invest time to keeping up with the lore, I simply felt they weren't interested. Shame, too, because behind all the vampire politics and such, there was, in fact, a doomsday clock that they never discovered was ticking, but would have led to some incredible adventure and tension after all the intrigue.

[@markuswelander8551]

A good idea for a new video would be a how to RP artificers.

[@drizzo4669]

As a rule, I never leave it to chance that a character will find a major plot point. They will definitely be told by an npc that Lord X is the evil necromancer. Creative plays who investigate may or may not find out that Lord X is also working with Judge Snoopy, who "surprise " is also a vampire. Give the players everything they need to get from A to B, let them do their own investigation to figure out how to be best prepared for that trip.

[@TTRPGA]

I'm so excited for this! :)

[@darklightstudio]

Hey, this is Jim Davis!

[@kev_whatev]

Hey there, thanks for another great video! I’m wondering how you guys choose which (audios of) videos go on the podcast feed. I’d love to be able to listen to this instead of having to keep KZbin open.

[@WebDM]

We will be posting all podcasts as video, and having at least one additional shorter KZbin only video a week. Been having some issues with getting both up on KZbin but we're gonna hit that goal this week- video version of the podcast will come out Saturday or Sunday

[@Hebdomad7]

But what if your players speculate an even more devious plot than one you planned?

[@WebDM]

You know what you have to do

[@jasonrustmann9876]

Fuuuuuuu...those dice are gorgeous

[@IMVADER2]

2:38 - 2:50 So! I have this thing in my campaign where I took inspiration from an old anime I watched on Toonami as a kid (called M.A.R.). In that show, they had these magic items (called ARM) where it would summon things out of trinkets; from basic weapons, to creatures akin to familiars, to spells & magic items. And the trinkets could be pendants, earrings, rings, necklaces, etc. Ideally, it's a workaround bulk, which I'm kind of thankful for, but I'll be keeping an eye on that as we play. Aaanywho... idk how many times I've described to them about this bracelet they have found in the recaps, but no one is interested in taking a closer look at it! It's been about 7 sessions, and man, they just aren't getting it. At this point I'm tempted to have the thing act on it's own just so they can see it in action, and be on the lookout for these items xD

[@tohellwithyourcrap8045]

Wow, what a great topic. Obvious in hindsight.

[@WebDM]

Thank you Michael!

[@mrhypnagogia]

Jim Davies like the garfield guy?

[@ultraArcite]

So what's the difference between these KZbin Videos and the podcast?

[@angiemartin197]

Which method do you prefer... the players giving the recap from the previous game or the DM/GM giving the recap?

[@WebDM]

We've done both in the past and either can work but it's the DM more often, or it will be a discussion. We have even toyed with in character recaps in some of our live games, and that can be a lotta fun

[@jek__]

I'm expecting some deep universal truth about the nature of communication between entities with limited and differing scopes lol

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

"History is made through misinterpretation." So in the case of D&D where the DM wants a particular outcome: multiple layers of failsafes, each with redundancy.

[@draxthemsklonst]

Huh?

[@WebDM]

Not getting it?

[@draxthemsklonst]

@@WebDM Completely clueless.

[@purience1502]

get new players....duh

[@bmike3000]

this whole virtual set thing is distracting, its clear the guys aren't even facing whether the other would be in real life. i would much rather see it was web cam frames, acknowledging the current distancing.

[@mastreflame1966]

First!

[@abemooreodell4507]

Players just don't understand.

[@matthewryall167]

Im honestly a big advocate of handouts, files, cards, pictures, they are great when you have information you want the players to retain

[@WebDM]

Absolutely that can help!!

[@matthewryall167]

@@WebDM also for inspiration on mysteries or clues, i recommends the detective conan series. Its big, over the top but with a tight focus on mystery, its got plenty of episodic short mysterys with great variety

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

I'm not against handouts, but pictures I feel like everyone could use as a lesson in description. Having a DM break down the description of something might take another minute, but I typically get more enjoyment from a novel w/o pictures.

[@matthewryall167]

@@bazzfromthebackground3696 true, plus i personally haven't used pictures that much, but i have made handouts of the written description i used, in the form of a murder report or conversation memo. The other times i used a picture was becuase it was too complicated the describe, and the information was too important

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

@@matthewryall167 So like, maps or like ultra important insignia, yeah? That's all I use pictures for.

[@jabeck03]

In the firt session I gave players a literal map with a big X on it that they got out of a PIRATE SHIP.... they never went there.

[@jacopobertolotti5025]

They were probably missing disk 22 🏴‍☠️

[@yellowbeard1]

Did they just not care about pirate treasure? We’re they focused on other things in the campaign?

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

Damn... the thought of free treasure is usually a potent lure for players. You did everything short of writing 'Free Awesome Magic Sword that Shoots Lightning Bolts HERE' on the map...

[@certanmike]

As a player the only way I pass on stuff like that Is either there's no time or the x looks like it's in the water and we lack a way to get to it safely (in a world of magic I see pirates doing this so no chance someone will find it)

[@Ghorda9]

@@certanmike if all else fails, train a dolphin. or a large crab on a rope.

[@SkylerLinux]

So on the topic of did they get it or miss it, Have the players' themselves do the "Last time on..." recap and then you'll see what they thought of and felt happened last time.

[@WebDM]

Good tip!!

[@aleksanderk6765]

As a DM i am constantly affraid of making clues and lore tidbits (tidbits) TOO explicit for my players. Then I get dissapointed when they dont pick up on it, lol. Need this video as a reminder. Great stuff! Cheers from Norway

[@WebDM]

Gotta be generous with your tidbits!

[@kevinwheeler7427]

In my game I had two different NPCs ask the party to locate the same ancient magical tome for them in the same session; the first offered them a large sum of money and the second appealed to them that the tome was dangerous...and so far the party isn't at all suspicious.

[@madmanwithaplan1826]

Reminds me of that old "finding a good puzzle for your party is like googling good puzzles for toddlers" meme

[@aleksanderk6765]

@@WebDM haha, so true. Over time I have gotten more generous with all my bits (!) I find that the Lazy GM method of having secrets and clues not tied to a specific NPC or place, allows me to drop the clues where ever the players go. Gives me less to prep, and feels more sand box-y for them - i hope

[@chrissalkeld8274]

In one campaign we were super fixated on an abandoned chapel outside of town. After spending half the session asking townsfolk about it we visited the chapel itself and found some peculiar graffiti. A fish in fresh red paint.

[@Jackboye]

Ok, but that's actually genius.

[@thomasdixon8656]

took me a second

[@tmack11]

Lmao. That awesome 😂

[@robertrivera4743]

i dont get it pls help

[@jasonbolding3481]

@@robertrivera4743 it was a herring

[@greenhawk3796]

I feel like this is literally what i need right now. My players will constantly sit silently instead of doing literally anything & say things like "i guess i do nothing" in combat.

[@WebDM]

That's a rough one. Hang in there and let us know if the video is helpful! If not, hit us up on social media! Maybe we can give you some advice.

[@MoutainMannPro]

I always feel like I describe a room or whatever and lay everything out and then my players just sit silently and do nothing until I tell them to.

[@GeebusCrust]

Which is so much worse than when they try to immediately interact with the first element of the space you describe in any level of detail.

[@greenhawk3796]

@@MoutainMannPro its the same way for me. I told my group id run a halloween game. Told them to make classic monster hunters, had them roll for a monster from their past, told them that they heard rumours of similar monsters in a certain region... then on game night one of my players claims i didnt give him enough info as to who he is or why he's there... like... HOW lol

[@O4C209]

In my experience, you need to hit players like that with story. They sit there? Then something happens TO them. If they are not people of Action, then they are people of Reaction. I do this when playing with children. Say, "the dragon attacks". They'll do something.

[@mathewfrance5165]

As always, picking a topic that hits me directly in the DM heart. Good stuff, guys!

[@WebDM]

Thanks for watching!

[@IGotTheFlag]

Can relate. Was literally wondering how to remedy this feeling from my last session hahaha

[@deltaphant_]

I feel called-out by that thumbnail, but at least I'm not the only one!

[@WebDM]

It happens to all of us sometimes

[@O4C209]

You'd be weird to not have this issue.

[@Zonalar]

Even after a couple of years of watching, you always manage to come up with a super engaging and helpful topic for me as a DM that i can also share with my players. Thank you so much for your work :)

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Can y'all make a video about Compromise? I DM for a group of players who have a variety of preferences and styles, but some are more vocal than others. They're sort of new, so they're not really very good at even expressing or knowing what it is they like and don't like and for me it's very confusing when I'm trying to run a game. And there's also the aspect of how I prefer to run my game as well - I like to use rules for consistency and I love world lore and stuff but frankly my players are murderhobos. Even beyond ensuring tactical choices for murderhoboing or not, they just don't see games as a place for legitimate story telling. How do you deal with this kind of thing?

[@WebDM]

Good request! We've been sorta discussing a show about, like, how to have fun at a table with lots of different play styles, because a) it's totally possible and b) unless you have access to a really big pool of people to find peeps to play with, it's probably gonna happen. Sounds like they might encompass some of what you're saying here yeah?

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

@@WebDM Exactly like that! For instance - I like varied and creative playstyles and so does half my group, but the other half doesn't have the patience for a stealth/social character to go out and do their thing or take down time for crafting. They just tune out immediately. I get bored of straight combat though. So I'd really appreciate advice on how to bridge that gap and ensure everyone has fun!

[@madmanwithaplan1826]

The TLDR of my point is less to do with the characters missing plot points or clues about stuff going on with the plot. And more to do with my players missing an aspect of the game I want them to engage with (and I know they aren't opposed to engaging with them) and how a change in structure helped with that. I've been trying to do an alternative style to my normal dming strats with my starfinder campaign. Normally I'm very here's the stuff I've set up if you want to do something else I'm totally up for it. This has lead to some personal disappointment as I really want my players to be like hey I want to buy a keep or start an adventuring guild or create this crazy magic item I made. And they never do, I make sure there's plenty of gold time and opportunity to do these things. So I've changed things up for how I've run starfinder. I started the game normally I made the bb someone the players have ample reason to personally hate and ran normally until level 4. At level 4 they lost contact with their contact in law enforcement their home disappeared and they are set wild in space on a ship they are gonna owe payments on in a year. The structure I've settled on is a mission phase which they tell me the job they're looking to do downtime phase and then factional progress. They've done a manhunt mission and a ship recovery mission. And I think they're finally starting to understand that if they want to get in the bad guys way they have to make the choice to go do so. Making a downtime phase makes them think about the things and long term goals they want to achieve and makes them go for it. And factional progress gives them an idea of what the enemy is upto

[@danielpayne1597]

This is useful to me in planning my own factional progress / overarching campaign choice scenarios. Thanks

[@madmanwithaplan1826]

@@danielpayne1597 i based mine on the Progression clocks from Blades in the dark its a super helpful way to track things that are just vague by nature in TTRPG's. basically everytime my players have an adventure every factions clock ticks one segment. so players can boost certain factions clocks to help them reach their goals faster or set an enemy clock back a few ticks. its a great bit of dungeon master kit i recommend you look at adding to your toolbelt.

[@danielpayne1597]

@@madmanwithaplan1826 I'll do that! My campaign has a continental war as the backdrop, and eventually the PCs will be doing missions to influence the outcome. Military campaigning, spec ops, exploration, etc. will all be options. The enemy groups aren't just going to be passive, of course.

[@ttrem2931]

Just started running waterdeep for my players and worried I won’t give out a good amount of clues

[@WebDM]

Hope you find the video useful, then!

[@ttprophet]

I like having the backup plan or two for the "failure to find something" approach, but I try to remember that win, lose, or draw, the player's choices IS the movie that drives the plot forward. It's completely okay to lucidly change the motives of the BBEG if the players don't get your hints along the way. Good and evil are often perceptions. Maybe they fail to witness the war crime all together, and in that case, maybe the war crime never happened or didn't happen the way it did in my mind. Sometimes, pen and paper preparation be damned... the only canonical truth is what the audience witnesses.

[@thorinpeterson6282]

Uploaded 3 minutes ago and already lost firsties. Damn.

[@WebDM]

You're always a winner to us, Thorin

[@kurtoogle4576]

Really solid & relevant conversation! Thank you! :)

[@MisterMisogynist]

Knowing that Jim is a fan of The Alexandrian, I'm a bit surpised he never mentioned Justin Alexander's "Three Clue Rule". It basically says that you always put at least 3 clues into a scene, so if they miss one or two they can still progress in the investigation.

[@J4min77]

I have to give you guys props for how you have adjusted to Covid. You guys make it seem like the original set up despite the distance (in my opinion).

[@WebDM]

Thank you! We're trying!

[@SkuffD]

I do the "Previously..." every session! It was something I really enjoyed from TV shows and just as you mentioned, its a great way to recap, highlight a few key clues/discoveries/encounters and drop the players right back in the adventure.

[@thegustbag]

This year I had a campaign begin and end on what was meant to be a preliminary investigation. Turns out sometimes the players are more willing to tear down an unrelated location and exhaust themselves than to revise their initial assumptions. And THEN when I had a guy show up with missing information, they antagonized him and escalated the situation into murder. I'm not saying I'm not to blame for some (like maybe being too hands off with their plans) or even most of it (like making the clue NPC be more unlikeable than I meant), but I also think sometimes it's just not meant to be.

[@WebDM]

Good on you for rolling with the punches, wow

[@jacinto3513]

this was made for my group! LOL!

[@Zeyga]

Top 10 most useful Web DM videos. Thank you SO much for all of the helpful advice on your channel!

[@WebDM]

Thank you!!

[@yodaleiaheehoo9960]

I learned from this video that I was unknowingly assuming players and characters will have equal knowledge on various topics that to me seem obvious; definitely something to work on. My problem is all but one of my players don't take any notes much less copious notes; so I make them do the recap and if they don't remember something I am not inclined to tell them again because I already mentioned said thing multiple times during the previous session(s). Am I being the douche here? Do other DM's out there just repeat things session after session?

[@WebDM]

Well... It's a lot of info. Also not unusual for most players to not take notes. The better question than am I being a douche may be "does this decision result in a game that's more or less successful?"

[@yodaleiaheehoo9960]

@@WebDM that makes a ton of sense this isn't my 3rd edition group anymore casual players are likely always to be casual players and there isn't anything wrong with that. Thanks for waking me up.

[@jayteepodcast]

With investigation i give them the information but depending on the roll the window of time shrinks

[@FranekWrobel-hp7zp]

I think if you have players that need „previously on” you should be looking for better players

[@floydwurst9948]

Figuring out the right amount of clues is so hard for me! I gave my players a few hints as to where to search for the lost grave of a necromancer. I was affraid they wouldn't find it. They knew it was somewhere around a certain town. They went there and pretty much immediatly went "Yeah the grave is under the temple. Lets break in at night.". Same adventure a little down the road even after multiple big hints they never ever ask themselfs what the motive of the villain is. I had NPCs literally ask them the question "What do you guys think? Why is he doing all this? What is his goal?" all I got was a "We don't know. And now lets steal some stuff.". I literally made them pay for it in the end: introduced a spy/Information-dealer-NPC that sold the answers to the party.

[@zorkwhouse8125]

you mentioned using npc's to help out - one way I've found is to have the NPC(s) break off and go look independently in another direction than the one the party is going in. And then if when push comes to shove, the party comes up short info-wise or is having trouble putting things together, the NPC can check back in - having "discovered" the bit of info they were missing, or by linking together bits of info the party failed to do. Conversely, if the party is successful the NPC can return having found nothing additional of use or come back having come to the same conclusion as the party and serving as a means of reinforcing to them that they are on the right track. This way, as you referred to, you can create your own serendipity if you need to, and if you don't need to then you don't. So by planning ahead you give yourself an "out" to aid the party without it necessarily coming across too heavy-handed to the players. They knew ahead of time the NPC was out trying to dig up info, and so the NPC returning with helpful information doesn't look like its just randomly coming out of the blue - which again could come across as appearing a little too serendipitous.

[@darthironhand4353]

See, pruitt says good cop bad cop.. I DM for some no nonsense players.. the paladin just casts zone of truth, and then the barb tortures them, healing them as necessary. The key negative with torture is its unreliability. With a second level spell and enough inhumanity, that quite quickly disappears..

[@michaelwolf8690]

Look, your players want to chase the story, that's where the adventure is. They're going to go towards your cool monster lair if they can find it. Give them time. Don't let your frustration show and don't bait your players frustration. That's going to magnify the problem. Smile enigmatically if they don't pick up the connection or understand it's a clue. If they don't bite find another hook, and have a dozen adventure hooks in behind the screen ready to go. If enough people they talk to and strange scraps of paper point them towards the old windmill on the marsh they're going to get going that way. If they jump on the wrong path, that's ok. They're run down that road and find the dead end they need or if you're clever that road will lead them back to where you want them. Be patient and let them get there on their own time.

[@FrostSpike]

Having just written a 846 word "What I Learned Today" recap + handout set for my group I know what you mean about the "Previously On..." part. :-(

[@kylestark1800]

My players tend to have the problem of being too genre savvy. Their characters are smart enough to learn from past mistakes so now they are cautious to the point of inaction. Or they try something one way and it doesn't work, they shut down because 'hey that worked before'...yes it did, but now it doesn't puzzle it out...'but I don't know how to because it didn't work the way I know how to work it.' Or they were told by an npc about how invulnerable an enemy is so they take that as gospel truth.

[@EmeraldTG]

I'm working on a homebrew that comes after two of my favorite modules in 5e and I find that I struggle with breadcrumbs and coming up with ways to reveal info without telling my players what to do. This video helps a lot in that regard and I thank you gentlemen for your help!

[@aaronhamric7679]

You encounter a gazebo...

[@WebDM]

I insight check the gazebo

[@aaronhamric7679]

@@WebDM the hulking gazebo just sits there, inscrutable, seeming to pay you no mind.

[@WebDM]

...I search it for traps and picnics

[@aaronhamric7679]

@@WebDM I feel that there has been some sort of miscommunication here. The gazebo opens its eyes and looks directly into yours. You turn into stone and are then smashed to bits by the monster’s massive bo staff.

[@Isambardify]

I think the nice thing about dnd is if the players come up with a really clever way to join the dots even if that's not what you planned you can just change the reality to make them right. Especially if a player who doesn't normally volunteer a lot of theories within the party suddenly has a brainwave they're going to become right if I can possibly help it. Similarly if I misjudge and make it too easy then maybe it becomes a clever ruse with the real villain still at large.

[@NoInfoAvail]

Theres plenty of spells in older editions that help. Like after life, I believe its called. In 2nd edition it would allow you to see what happened in a place. Sorta like that one scene in earthsea? I think that was the show. Chubby mage used it to determine who murdered someons in his town.

[@DanJMW]

Worth thinking about different types of failure. Maybe failure means "an added complication" or "it takes you a long time to do this" rather than just "you can't do this".

[@albertnorman4136]

If you have a particular way that you want your players to react, just narrate the choices you already made for them. It's not like the game is about the decisions they're making and the results of those decisions, right?

[@robertbogan225]

If they fail a die roll that doesnt mean the bad guys know. Maybe they know you went somewhere and they know your looking for someone (them) even if you dont find the clue your on their list now so maybe a failed die roll leads to more combat?

[@adamwelch4336]

It's frustrating when you have big red arrows. Pointing straight to the spot were they needbe and what to do! But watching players get confused to the max and then decideing from the clues to go in a completely overreaching complex branches that have nothing to do with anything you set up! The funniest thing that happens in ANY rpg game! Guys it's over there! 🤦😂😂😂😂😂it's just a godamm chair! Critacal role! 🛋

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

That being said, it is fun watching the cast of Critical Role spend an hour trying to defeat a Door.

[@adamwelch4336]

@@XoRandomGuyoX that it is!

[@Dicyroller]

I prefer when you just were in your own windows. It is a strange unreal feeling when you are in different places and trying to meld the video, Uncanny valley stuff.

[@Gustcloak]

I love it when my players get sidetracked!Some of our best stories happened while down in a random part of a country that i didn't even plan them to visit. The clues and riddles can get annoying, but if it is needed for the greater story we solve it but with a ramification. Maybe they trigger a trap or something else.. We tend to lean to the "Is this fun? If yes, go with it!".

[@WebDM]

100%!!! This advice is intended for when everyone seems stuck and it's un-fun for everybody.

[@Gustcloak]

@@WebDM Yeah, we have had "Mystical" entities magically help with a puzzle once or twice :D

[@Gustcloak]

@@WebDM Most valuable advice you said was probably "Take your time" So important to not rush stuff!

[@ClassMRule]

oh also, dont you love when you give a player a clue, and they choose not to share it when if they had they would have likely had enough information to put everything together

[@xXmoondropXx]

someone buy that dude a good microphone. dem headphones is popy. Great content thou. Long time viewer.

[@Frapsity]

Good job on the socially distanced orientation of zoom windows! Much better

[@LastFanStanding12]

I love all your content, but episodes like this with more free-style discussion are the best.

[@ThieleMobile]

I miss the old foreground overlay and the chaos/life of Castle Jim

[@Patch1xo]

I love this green screen setup. I can see the time it took to make it all work

[@quonomonna8126]

most annoying frustrating thing to me is players that announce their die rolls like its a question and never add their modifiers even after they've made 30,000 skill checks, saving throws, and attack rolls - like they expect the DM to know their character better than them! some people catch on right away, but I have seen SO many people just NEVER GET IT THEY JUST KEEP ANNOUNCING THE UNMODIFIED ROLL EVERY TIME

[@WebDM]

Not a problem we have experienced. Sounds like the dm needs to take their numbers at face value!!

[@donparker7382]

Word of the day: Serendipitous

[@danielwest8301]

This me some time win I play ty for the help

[@bensaylor9093]

Question: does it irk you guys to sandbox your way through the lower levels in preparation for the 'real' objective or the campaign? I know the trajectory of current D&D modules keeps the players at least somewhat focused on the main goal, where all the low level stuff kinda reinforces what they're doing later, but my homebrew I've been running for the past 6 months has been... not that at all.

[@WebDM]

No, doesn't irk us.

[@brianclarke3727]

Don't be afraid to just tell your players when you forget to give them information they were supposed to have. I ran a one shot where the PCs had to search mausoleums for The Fang of Dendar before the cultists could find it. They were doing research about the cult and Dendar, etc., and I forgot to tell them that the Fang is magic dagger. They get to the graveyard and have no idea what they are looking for. When I realized the problem I just said "oh by the way the Fang of Dendar is a magic dagger, you found that out in your research." I was disappointed as a DM that it didn't go how I had planned, but it was still a great session and the players had fun.

[@WebDM]

an excellent point!!

[@yanderenejoyer]

Yoo I'm early How are you guys doing?

[@WebDM]

We're ok! How are you Antonio?

[@yanderenejoyer]

@@WebDM Why thanks for asking! Mighty fine and 3 hours away from some good digital D&D!

[@inigmianstudios2771]

Pretty gamer dude, have fun m8

[@yanderenejoyer]

@@inigmianstudios2771 Thanks, will do!

[@daltsu3498]

Hey Jim... Your beard moved...

[@Keaggan]

LOVE the virtual set :)

[@ClassMRule]

okay dumb question here, but how do i make my clues more obvious without being overt? or in other words, when i give my table clues, they are either super obvious, or nobody picks up on them.

[@WebDM]

Most likely they will feel one level less obvious to your players than they seem to you. So they're gonna feel like you're laying it all out, but you have contextual info they don't that makes it easier to effortlessly put together. Most likely don't worry about it! But check out our podcast (that we just put up on youtube a few minutes ago) about investigations and mysteries for more!

[@kyuusei19]

I had my players destroy all evidences and murder all witnesses. I said "Either you're really bad at investigating, or you guys are actually the villains."

[@WebDM]

Oof!