What Was SAURON Actually Doing During The Lord of the Rings? | Middle-Earth Lore

The Dark Lord Sauron is the great enemy of the War of the Ring, however, he is never really seen! So what exactly was he doing during this time?
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Timecodes:
0:00 - Intro
0:38 - Please Subscribe!
1:21 - Sauron in the Second Age.
3:08 - Sauron in the earlier Third Age.
4:02 - Sauron and Gollum.
6:59 - Less secrecy, more action!
8:04 - Sauron and the Nazgul.
9:26 - Sauron, Pippin, Aragorn and his First Attacks.
12:21 - The remainder of the War of the Ring.
17:07 - 'What Did Sauron Look Like?' & Outro
19:45 - QotD & Thank yous!
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Thumbnail Art:
"Sauron" - akreon
"Sauron" - AnotherStranger-Me
Art in order of first appearance:
Sauron - Jerry Vanderstelt
Sauron - Nynsei
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring - New Line Cinema
Melkor and Sauron - HellierNovier
Tulkas Chaining Morgoth - KipRasmussen
Annatar and Celebrimbor. - nicolachibbaro
The Destroying Wave Over Numenor - KipRasmussen
Sauron vs Elendil and Gil-galad on Orodruin - KipRasmussen
Isildur sketch - Bohemian Weasel
Frodo - Agina
Sauron War of the Last Alliance - MattDeMino
Sauron the Necromancer - Kiendriel
Dol Guldur - TitusLunter
Gollum - Mark22
The One Ring - rastko96
Sauron-As He Sat The One Ring Upon His Finger - IngvildSchageArt
Gollum The Hobbit - Freksama
Aragorn - Benjamin Goutte
Middle Earth - Klaradox
The Nazgul - SpartanK42
Battle of Osgiliath - Shockbolt
Lord of the Rings - AndyVisuals
A Fell Voice in the Air - AnatoFinnstark
Nazgul 6 - AnatoFinnstark
At The Ford - Ted Nasmith
Amon Sul - AnatoFinnstark
Dark Lord - Helm1892
Witch-king of Angmar - Vulpes-Ibuculta
Palantir Room - Eleftheria-Arts
Pippin Looks in the Palantir - peet
The Eye of Sauron - DinoDrawing
Dark Lord Sauron - Art-Calavera
Mordor (Midjourney) - FBOMBheart
Aragorn & Palantir - Magali Villeneuve
Saruman - LOTRO Rise of Isengard
Sauron - akreon
Sauron - Shockbolt
Gandalf the White - Penfield06
Battle of the Black Gate - Ted Nasmith
One for the Dark Lord - Dartxo
Shagrat - Yzah
Samwise Gamgee - NNTan
Sauron - Insant
Frodo - Gabriele Dell'Otto
Sauron - JoseRealArt
The Nazgûl - Ted Nasmith
Shadow of Sauron - Ted Nasmith
Sauron - AnotherStranger-Me
One ring to rule them all - AnatoFinnstark
Sauron - SpartanK42
Sauron 2Sides - VictorLafaye
Sauron The Lord of the Rings - William Faucher
The Lord of the Rings - Eye of Sauron - DarkAvengers3000
Sauron - Variones
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#LordoftheRingsLore #Sauron #WaroftheRing

[@liontone]

Everyone asks “Where was Sauron?” Nobody asks “How was Sauron?”

[@Big_Tex]

And really, wasn’t that the problem all along? A little positive feedback and understanding would have gone a long way.

[@vaiyt]

I'll do you one better: why was Sauron?

[@Life_life102]

Lol

[@hyperion3145]

@@vaiyt I'll do you even better: when was Sauron?

[@jarrenrochester1879]

Grumpy. Sauron was grumpy.

[@01shyster]

You failed to mention the must important error Sauron made, his inability to conceive that his enemies might come into possession of the One Ring and not use it. He was looking for a challenger to his power welding the One Ring against him, not a humble halfling looking to destroy the Ring. As one who was consumed by a lust for power, he thought someone in possession of the Ring would necessarily claim its power for himself. Gandalf’s plans worked because Sauron could not imagine anything other than a challenger for power.

[@eddardstark6554]

This is why the scene in the movie (can’t remember if it’s in the book) where Aragorn denies the Ring from Frodo towards the breaking of the Fellowship is so powerful and inspirational because that could have lead Aragorn down a dark path. Sauron couldn’t conceive that a human could deny the Ring if offered. But Aragorn was probably the only human that could do so. It’s interesting to wonder what would have happened if the Fellowship stayed together. They would have gone to Rohan and Gondor. How would the presence of the Ring affected King Theoden or Steward Denethor? And everyone around them? Sauron knew Isildur couldn’t deny the Ring, so why should Aragorn? Very interesting stuff.

[@philipmeisterl]

Well he kinda was correct it took a push from illuvatar himself for someone to get it into mount doom nobody could have thrown it in there himself

[@lightgreen3479]

And Sauron was correct. Frodo did not have the power to throw the ring down, and neither did Gollum. The ring ending up destroyed was intended by none of them. God intervened and made Gollum trip.

[@tuncaybasak4953]

​@@eddardstark6554Don't overlook Faramir.

[@eddardstark6554]

@@tuncaybasak4953 yes, that too! One of my other favorite moments.

[@Fatfit2]

Having limited access to viewing Sauron's physical form made him a much more intriguing and mysterious villain. As a kid I REALLY wanted to see Sauron manifest and wreck sh*t, but him not doing that made me start reading the lore and source material to satisfy that.

[@GingerRose25]

Same! I felt that way about so many character. Tolkien was amazing at giving us just enough information about a character, and their background history, at any one time to make me obsessively seek out all other material. The huge time spans were a big factor for me aswell. Ugh. I can't even put into words how much I love Tolkien.

[@Fatfit2]

@@GingerRose25 💯

[@tima5033]

Samesies. Wait, what? Elrond was an adult 3,000 years ago? How the hell does that work?

[@PcGamerify]

Yeah when I was a kid, that is something that I had been hoping for too, his armor was so badass.

[@alba..8479]

I fealt it was a bit under developed a shadow an eye a voice where was his real power why obey.

[@writerd6910]

I actually liked the flaming eye...I interpreted it as Sauron had poured so much of himself into the One Ring that when it was separated from him, his physical living body was destroyed. I had always believed that he never appeared outside of that flashback because he had no physical form and if he got the One Ring back he would once again be flesh and blood.

[@Ex1400]

He did have a physical form though. Gollum saw him while being tortured for information, and described him as missing a finger.

[@writerd6910]

@@Ex1400 Yes, that true. However, at the time I thought that Gollum had seen Sauron's spirit in a form for personal communication. He was there overseeing and supervising Gollum's torture since he wasn't physically there.

[@c.rutherford]

Sauron didn't have an actual body anymore. He could take a physical form, but it was more like holding a suit together with his will. And unlike the old days, he was forever unable to look "good", he could only appear dark and terrible..... he was robbed that ability earlier, maybe his greatest power because he used to be able to decieve all but the wisest in that way. He lost his body in the 2nd Age when he more or less led or sent a gigantic but duped Numenorian army across the sea against the Valar. Ar-Pharazôn the greatest Numenorian king was fooled by Sauron into thinking if he conquered the 'undying lands' he would live forever. BUTtttt......apparently no; if a mortal steps on those shores they kind of burn up all the more quickly because its too much life energy. The Numenorian army in the 2nd age that laid seige to Valinor was apparently so great, that the Valar had to call on Eru to save them. And as far as that goes.... whenever he gets involved its something like a nuclear option, entire continents get squashed. Or at least in this case, Numenor itself went down a bit like Atlantis. In the end Sauron's body also sort of went down the toilet when Numenor sank beneath the waves. But his spirit endured. So the story goes in the Silmarillion...... anyone can add or update as they like.

[@pyropulseIXXI]

@@c.rutherford Hd did have an actual body you oaf. All valar and maiar cloth themselves in flesh. Sauron merely lost the ability to 'cloth' himself in a fair form

[@c.rutherford]

​@@pyropulseIXXI oh no Sauron most definitely lost his physical body, it went down in the waves when Numenor sank. Check the Silmarillion, its quite clear. And he also lost his ability to appear fair and to decieve in that way, though this was somewhat less clear. Says lotr fandom, you'll have to find it as links of course are forbidden by our evil KZbin overlords: "Númenor was drowned by a great wave and sank into the abyss, killing its inhabitants, including the body of Sauron, which robbed him his ability to assume fair forms ever after......"

[@joshdunne8792]

It makes a lot of sense for the movie to have the objective that "Sauron can never get the ring". Having Sauron as a spirit and needing the ring to recreate his physical body, and being clear he is at his most powerful when he is in his physical form, gives the audience a straightforward simple goal for the movie. It's a helpful tool to create tension whenever it looks like the ring will be caught by the Nazgul and it gives a great sigh of relief when the ring is finally destroyed

[@cherub3624]

Ironic that Sauron launched a battle as a distraction so Gollum could escape, and yet it never entered his mind that the battle launched against him could be a distraction for a different hobbit to infiltrate his lands.

[@blackwolf4653]

he thought he is the smartest being in middle earth 😂

[@spitpit13]

the sword that defeated him was to tempting and went all out to destroy it. PTSD?

[@akindurosegun2459]

Pride and arrogance will do that to you

[@GTRNights]

It never entered his mind that it could be destroyed because the ring itself was empowered that it can never be destroyed by anyone who holds it. Even Sauron himself wouldn't be able to destroy it. That's why there were no guards at Mount Doom or at the Cracks. Because the ring literally cannot be destroyed by anyone who holds it. The poetry of it all is that the ring itself, via its evil, is what ended up destroying itself. Nobody who ever held the ring was able to destroy it, only relinquish it. When Frodo takes the ring for himself, in the books he says something like "If you ever touch me again you will be destroyed by fire" and then of course Golum does touch him again and the ring's power then (by Iluvitar's design) punishes Golum by tossing him in the lava... unfortunately for the ring, along with the ring. But that's why Sauron didn't consider it an option - because technically it wasn't an option.

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

Villains are arrogant, and it wouldn’t matter if Frodo DID infiltrate Mordor, since he could never willingly harm the ring, making his journey pointless. It is the struggle for ownership of the ring that is the game changer. The fight for the ring makes it fall with Gollum into the fire, neither Frodo or Gollum would’ve done it willingly.

[@donavonhoward1899]

I think the eye representing Sauron was a good idea for the film representation. We got to see a brief representation of his physical form in the first sequence of the Fellowship of the Ring. I feel it was far more powerful to not see him in a body after that great opening scene, especially for the newcomers to the series. It's like the opening of the trilogy gave us a taste of what he actually may have looked like (which blew my mind when I first saw the movie as a kid), and then we see that he is something larger than just a villain. First time viewers of the films (that haven't read the Lotr trilogy, or the Silmarillion) don't know about the Valar, Maiar, or Eru unless they knew about some of the lore. In my opinion, by not showing his physical form again for the rest of the trilogy, it managed to accomplish something similar to the feel of Sauron in the books (although he did have a body in the books); being more of an unseen evil so great, so powerful, that he doesn't even need to be seen in order for the characters to feel his influence from great distances. It goes along with the idea that he is pretty much an evil ethereal being. What I love most is that in the books and films, Sauron is just as much a mystery to most of the characters as he is to the readers, and viewers. He is almost like an evil so great, and so powerful that it's almost difficult for lesser beings to fathom, and at the same time, Sauron also can't understand or comprehend the strength, or motivations of lesser beings (the least powerful) that he would consider useless slaves such as Hobbits.

[@jygb7092]

Yeah but they should have shown him at the end

[@MoonLitMews24]

TLDR

[@ernestsparkowich1299]

Gandalf did say in the movies ‘he cannot yet take physical form’. Sounds like that’s a difference from the books. For your question, I think Sauron being less physical makes him more terrifying. We see the great eye and all the power he has and we’re told he’s not at full strength. It shows how important the ring is to him, and adds stakes to the movie.

[@gunarliepins]

To be somewhat fair to Sauron, his biggest miscalculation is not just arrogance. He doesn't consider they'd try destroying the ring because from his perspective, that's impossible. He knows no one has the strength of will to resist the temptation of the ring long enough to actually cast it in the fire and... turns out he's right. Frodo got told in no uncertain terms "If you can't do it, no one can." and in the end, he can't. If fate/god/sheer luck hadn't intervened the way it did, the ring could never have been destroyed, so it makes sense for Sauron to not consider this a realistic situation.

[@Snipy55]

correct and its stated that eru himself intervened to get the ring (and gollum that poor fella lol) in the fire

[@Simjorfeo]

It wasn't really luck. It was the power of the ring itself that destroyed it in the end. Just before entereing mount doom Frodo commands Gollum: “Begone and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.” It's weird that the movies omit the strongest ability of the ring: its ability to control others. The books make it clear that the ring holds even greater power over gollum specifically. Though in the movies wearing the ring just seems to make the wearer invisible, so the ending feels really random.

[@armygrunt13]

I was fine with the flaming eye, as I never took it to be Sauron's physical form, but rather a symbolic projection of his power. It did get a bit silly in the third film when it started acting like a giant searchlight. I really wish they'd gone with concept of Aragorn partially hypnotised at the Black Gate, first seeing a vision of Annatar, only for Gandalf to work his magic, with it then morphing into Sauron. That breaks the spell, and Aragorn then leads the attack. "For Frodo..."

[@ricardotolbert1797]

I was weak when The light hit Frodo on the plains of gororoth. Lmao I’m like really?!

[@johns1625]

The Eye being portrayed as a searchlight was one of the things that stuck with me most when I was a kid. I really liked it. I didn't read the books until high school though so I didn't know that wasn't what actually happened.

[@genghisgalahad8465]

Yep, I’ve learned a lot...you know, when he misses Frodo, I was like, what happened to a Great Eye, lidless, wreathed in flame...piercing earth, stone and flesh? No X-Ray vision?

[@gryphon8023]

I’ll take it you never watched the extended directors cut did you? Aragorn was supposed to fight sauron at the black gate but it got cut and replaced with the troll

[@armygrunt13]

@@gryphon8023 yes, I've seen the extended cuts numerous times. I'm not referring to the troll that was supposed to be Sauron. I'm talking about when Aragorn seemed hypnotised with Sauron calling to him and Gandalf waves his hand to break the spell before the battle. There's some raw footage and stills showing that he first saw a glowing vision of Annatar, and that it then morphed into the likeness of Sauron. So not the physical form version that was replaced by the troll.

[@Negetive2digit]

The Hobbit movies, at least, sort of introduced the concept of Sauron not being an eye but a shadow of a humanlike figure surrounded by a fiery aura that just kind of looks like an eye from a distance. That's actually a cool middle ground that makes sense in the movie's lore but still pays homage to the book lore (which Jackson's movies actually do a lot, actually.)

[@joshjones6072]

That is one thing the Hobbit movie did really well, yes.

[@kennywilkinson913]

Sounds like a bs retcon

[@JuliusCaesar888]

Sauron was busy directing the war, it takes an incredible amount of psychic effort to fill everyone involved with the dark strength of will to continue their evil.

[@damasek219]

During the whole story he would sit at his desk, reading his own poetry, quoting his own verses to Frodo and whoever else was under the influence of the ring with a creepy voice. Spouting basic science trivia such as "there is no live in the void" etc. Making up new mottos, naming objects with dark names like: Dark Tower, Mount Doom, Black Gate... Designing new clothing styles for Orcs such as war skirts, war booty shorts, rusty helmets, rugs with mould on it and so on, making sure the fashion of Mordor is recognizable on and off the battlefield. Designing dirty and rotten flags for orcs to take to the battles. Keeping his realm as dirty and disgusting as possible to make sure nobody ever wanted to join him, which took the most effort of all his works. He was quite busy and yet he lived for the moment.

[@EyesArePlanets]

Haha, nice.

[@DarthTellor]

Sounds like a standard wargaming hobbyist taking care of his miniature army.

[@SpyTrader1988]

lmaoooooo! This is now canon

[@avaughn828]

I liked the eye as the representation of Sauron in the movie. Not being able to see an enemy or a villain is always more terrifying. They could have maybe shown that Sauron did have a body at some point but the eye seemed very effective in evoking the terror when you thought of Sauron.

[@0ckyj]

I started reading Tolkien's works over 50 years ago and what Jackson did with his interpretation of the all-seeing eye of Sauron in my opinion works perfectly.

[@saintmicah7375]

Is Sauron the main character? The books are named after him

[@assasin19991999]

🤯

[@annaroselarsen4218]

He is one of main bad guy but I wouldn't say The main character the books are kinda name after him

[@hannah.lindseyy]

He's the titular character. I would say the ring is the main character.

[@gunnil.6075]

Naaw, what nobody realizes is that Tolkien ment Gandalf's eyerings! 😉

[@1Drakorn]

He is essentially like Dracula: the main villain of the story after whom the book is named. But he himself shows up only sparingly, if at all.

[@rangerofthenorth1970]

I understand why the Flaming Eye was show as litteraly as Eye, but when we are talking about movie adaptations I preffer Sauron from Hobbit movies, but really I love it, just a black shadow form from nothing but still so powerfull with that dark voice! James as always great and interesting video!

[@TheBrokenSword]

Thank you! 😁

[@ricardotolbert1797]

I wish the gave Sauron his Necromancer form like in Age of the Ring…they just couldn’t wait to reveal him 🤣😂

[@vinz4066]

One of the very very Few Things the Hobbit movies got right.

[@ricardotolbert1797]

@@vinz4066 well they tried lol

[@jeremymuir4332]

It's a cinematic problem; to portray menace, power and intimidation in just a humanoid body. I think the films use of a "lidless eye, wreathed in flame" was more significant as a means of torture and cruelty than a bodily form was likely to have been.

[@brianmayabella5992]

I prefer a mythical creature called Beholder/Evil Eye who manages the Mordor since Sauron at this time is an ordinary warrior since his essence or power is trap in the ring. So this Beholder, is Sauron's eyeing his affair. These creature has hypnotic, intelligent and cunning.

[@brianmayabella5992]

@@TheChurlishBoor yeah, thats my wishful thinking heeheheh. Since Sauron was pathetic at this time and at the same time a Dark Lord. It makes more sense, he would employ this malevolent creature to be his eye. You know what a beholder can do. Also id love seeing these kind of mythical creature on screen, wouldnt u say?

[@jacob4920]

I love our introduction to Sauron's "Eye," up close and personal, when Frodo first puts the ring on his finger, at the Prancing Pony. We just hear Sauron's voice at first: "You cannot hide..." And then, all of a sudden, everything turns orange. Frodo looks directly at the screen, in sheer terror, and then WE see this ginormic flaming eyeball peering at Frodo from point blank range, followed by the words: "I... SEE... you!!!" The eye was perfect for that entire sequence of events. Nothing else would have been appropriate.

[@SchemyCap]

*"Sauron in the Third Age"* please!

[@OohMax]

A long time reader of LoTR, I feel Peter Jackson did ok portraying Sauron as an eye. In my brain and forever I always thought the Eye of Sauron was more like a scary telescope than the actual embodiment of the character.

[@LandStrider23]

This

[@nathanhelix4622]

I like the video. Just subscribed. My take is what works in a novel doesn’t necessarily work in a movie. There are many changes Peter Jackson made that worked for the movie, the form of Sauron being one of them. I like how in the Hobbit trilogy he (Peter Jackson) made the eye of Sauron more an aura that looked like an eye (i.e. the fight scene between Sauron and Gandalf at Dol Goldur). His physical form being the cats eye shaped pupil and the aura being the iris.

[@grafspe807]

The eye in the movies works for me . Sauron dont really appear as a person in the books in the sense that you see him doing things and having a person represent him in the movies could have maybe lead to a more cartoonish villain with him having to say and do things that just did not happen and you would have to had Aragorn fight him which of course did not happen and this i think would have lead to a lot of criticism of the movies being way to " Hollywood" garbage. I think they did ok showing the eye as this evil presence that is always there and not over doing it

[@rafaelgustavo7786]

Sauron has many tasks to perform in the War. He needs to telepathically control his armies of orcs, trolls and other monsters: "From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his strategems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain. At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgûl, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom." He must keep Orodruin in constant geological activity with eruptions to cover Mordor with a great smokescreen and with his proficiency in using shadows to serve as a defense against "espionage" from the outside: “Then I cannot help you much, not even with counsel,” said Elrond. “I can forsee very little of your road; and how your task is to be achieved I do not know. The Shadow has crept now to the feet of the Mountains, and draws nigh even to the borders of the Greyflood; and under the Shadow all is dark to me.” And: “No, I did not find them,” said Gandalf. “There was a darkness over the valleys of Emyn Muil, and I did not know of their captivity, until the eagle told me.” He could control the weather to intimidate his enemy (Gondor) and (who knows?) destroy or disrupt their food logistics for future wars: "The skirts of the storm were lifting, ragged and wet, and the main battle had passed to spread its great wings over the Emyn Muil, upon which the dark thought of Sauron brooded for a while. Thence it turned, smiting the Vale of Anduin with hail and lightning, and casting its shadow upon Minas Tirith with threat of war. Then, lowering in the mountains, and gathering its great spires, it rolled on slowly over Gondor and the skirts of Rohan, until far away the Riders on the plain saw its black towers moving behind the sun, as they rode into the West." Furthermore, Sauron always plays the role of surveillance in his realm and in other regions to coordinate attacks, espionage, etc. I always imagined Sauron as a Warcraft player controlling troops, resources, logistics, etc.

[@TheBrokenSword]

He was a great (but evil) leader!

[@FlyingAxblade_D20]

splendid breakdown

[@treyowen9213]

Dang, he's pretty busy for a dark lord.

[@richardkenan2891]

I mean Sauron wasn't primarily a fighter. Even in the War of the Last Alliance, he only came out to fight when he was besieged in Barad Dur. He's a ruler, a tyrant, not a warrior. He's scary in personal combat because of his raw power as a Maiar, not because that's where his talents lie.

[@SC-ec8xe]

@@richardkenan2891 This is a good description.

[@renedriesen8915]

Sauron in The Third Age. Love to see a video about that. This is such a great channel with amazing content! Keep up The good work!

[@jimmideerichards9554]

I think the flaming eye was a brilliant touch, Not only is it a bright impactful image that attracts the viewers attention even if it flashes for a second, which is more impactful than a flash of Sauron himself, as let’s be honest he’ll be in shadow half the time in those foresights, and it wouldn’t be as impactful on screen, but it also gives Sauron a lot of mystery in the films, making people wonder what he truly looks like, and so much in cinema, especially in horror films, is this technique so effective, perfect example is Bird Box, not seeing your villains true form is a very effective cinematic trope if you do it correctly. Also I like how the hobbit, actually imbedded Sauron’s body form in to the eye, so gives the eye more depth, that it’s not just an eye, it’s a flaming projection of Sauron himself. So it definitely is a better addition in my opinion, from an aesthetically pleasing point of view.

[@taudvore259]

Sauron in the Third Age. I like that Orcs alone were no threat to the Elves. The Orcs were only ever a weak and pathetic imitation of the Elves and even in their declined state by the Third Age the Elves dealt with them easily. It might just be my interpretation but I feel that it was only at the end of their power in Middle-Earth that the Elves became what Illuvatar had intended them to be. At their height during the First Age the Elves were arrogant and violent but by the War of the Ring the had grown in wisdom and dignity so that no common evil was a match for them.

[@tsdocholiday8965]

Idk…in the battle of the 5 armies the elves of the woodland realm seems to have suffered a lot of casualties and almost lost that battle. Also there own woodland realm was attacked directly. Then in the war of the ring, though you don’t see it in the movies, the Gladrials elves were attacked 3 times and almost lost ad well as the elves in the woodland realm again so I wouldn’t say that the orcs were “no match”

[@SC-ec8xe]

Well Tolkien had said they cannot create only corrupt. So it does make sense that theyd be weaker in one sense but their power was in numbers/training/and the over all forces they were combined with maybe.

[@andrewhead1840]

I really like that interpretation it makes sense great concept! :-)

[@mattdavis8295]

i dont like how orcs and urakhai were meant to be shorter than men, but the movies made them huge and bigger than men. Lord of he rings and peter jackson movies are sooo different, i prefer the original vision of tolkien , jackson in my eyes has ruined something simple and beuatiful just to make a name for himself. If jackson really cared he wouldve held true to the story and the magical feeling it gives. he destryed it instead,,, or he tried to recreate the magic in his own image and failed misrably.

[@krisvandenassem9815]

@@mattdavis8295 I disagree with almost everything you say.

[@roaneverett4802]

That was really informative. Thank you for that complete explaination.

[@SonofSethoitae]

I always figured that the giant flaming eye was a work of sorcery and not necessarily Sauron himself. I assumed that he was still too weak to leave his tower for any great length of time, but that he could still make sorcerous illusions like the eye that projected an image of power.

[@shonofwar]

I legit thought Sauron was in spirit form or something since his defeat. Waiting for the ring to return to form a new body. You cleared this up pretty good. Thank you sir!

[@nicolletorres2875]

Another great one James 🗡️💙💙!!! Please don't stop posting 👍

[@TheBrokenSword]

I certainly don’t plan on stopping 😁

[@Warphoenix22]

I’ve recently discovered your channel and have been binge watching ever since 😂. Thanks for your content! I find myself preferring your lore videos over the new show lol

[@loraelstad8941]

Hello again 👋🏻! Another wonderful video & I always enjoy the reading bits of actual quotes, from all the sources, books, letters, films. I’m also glad that one person brought up why he wanted the One Ring after it already had done most of what it could achieve. I am looking forward to your video answer, though I do think the comment reply from someone else brought up a good point that he heavily invested of himself being put into the One Ring & wanted it back to get that power of himself integrated once more. I didn’t mind the use of the big lidless fiery eye 🔥 👁 🔥 because it seemed to convey more to me the Supernatural aspect of Sauron literally gazing down, imposing his will from on high, being that almost all seeing General, strategizing and moving the pieces in his war. It also helped me relate with the weight of that ever watching gaze on Frodo & the heaviness of his burden. The searchlight aspect went well to me with the fact that he is ever searching for the Ring, which, being part of Sauron, wishes to return to him & is almost exerting his will from afar, in a smaller capacity because it was long severed from him. That fear, paranoia and wanting to hide from his knowledge and his minions becomes more real when there is a literal manifestation of his sight ever seeking you out. I also think that, for film, it was a better choice than seeing even his impressive physical character, as shown in flashbacks, because he was previously defeated in that form and it kinda puts a dampener on his might. It’s easier to read about him having a bodily form in books because you are using your imagination, via descriptive words, that can take you to that place where he remains just as scary and powerful, more than a given ingrained image might. That said, I would love to see more Sauron in the Third Age, please.

[@danielpickton-allen8385]

I think the eye in the films was a clever and necessary change. I think it would have been strange in a film to have a corporeal Sauron that never appears (after the prologue). It just makes the stakes of the films clearer and it gives you a visual demonstration of the impact of the battle at the black gate distracting Sauron’s attention.

[@hodgrix]

I think it could have worked to not portray the giant flaming eye but instead show what Tolkien wrote about the symbol of the eye being used on Sauron's banners and to stamp victims etc. Giving the "poetic" idea that the imagination can create of "the eye always watching" is more of a feeling and i feel it could have been conveyed this way. Also, his 4 fingered black hand could have been shown torturing Gollum out of the shadows, along with a physical form as he appears in the flashbacks. The problem I have with the giant eye is that it makes Sauron less of an individual who desires to rule and more into a "spirit" who is somehow just able to communicate telepathically with all that he commands. Yes he is a Maiar spirit but I think it's important that like Morgoth, he is now CONFINED to Middle Earth and forced to resort to ruling as a dark King rather than having his original "admirable" wisdom as a good Maiar.

[@theelectricprince8231]

It might have been a concept to difficult to implement effectively, the eye was a quick easy way to get the point across.

[@Mrdevs96]

Thats a great idea, show Sauron in his lair to show that he's still alive but without the Ring he is disabled somewhat. I think it would've added a good deal of tension to the movie

[@DickRileyTheConquistador]

Lets be honest. The 1 eye symbolism was implemented as nod to the New World Order.

[@lordofthehouseofstormcrows8615]

Keep up the great work Mellon! Gotta ❤ any video that starts with the sentence "The Dark Lord..."

[@TheBrokenSword]

Thank you!

[@yasinyuce7659]

In the extended movies, you can even see his body when communicating with Aragorn through the palantir

[@jamiegregg9211]

awesome vid James as always loved it mate I thought in the movies making Sauron the lidless eye was well played and written Sauron in the Third Age

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

"But in after days he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void." -- Valaquenta: Of the Enemies

[@NateDohdoubleG]

Great video! Thanks for this 🙏

[@liamfowell8661]

I'll admit that I'm only now reading through Tolkeins LotR novels and realising exactly how much has changed. I do however appreciate that as much did need to change in order to make it work for the films which I absolutely loved. On that note I felt that only taking form of a giant eye worked really well as in my mind, it was in retrieving the One Ring that would allow Sauron to gain his physical form and cover the lands of the Second Darkenss. The fear of not letting that happen was the driving factor for the characters in the films. I'm just starting the Return of the King novel and loving it.

[@istari0]

The War of the Elves and Sauron, where the Númenóreans came to the aid of the elves, was in the mid-2nd Age. When the Númenóreans actually sent their armada to Middle-Earth again, resulting in the capture of Sauron, wasn't until some 1500 years later.

[@cult_of_odin]

Subbed, liked and hit the bell. Yourself and others who give the true story of Tolkien and Star Wars are gifts to the world. Disney and Amazon deserve exile for what they have done.

[@tommygunz4390]

I completely agree with what you say. But what was wrong about Saurons form in the movies.

[@donovankriasol]

Ready subscribed and bell activated. I wish you luck. Thanks for the videos are very entertaining

[@BlakeCWong]

This fills in so many gaps, thank you

[@Kinheimr]

Sauron in the third age. Thanks for another excellent video!

[@johnmead443]

Yes, please do Sauron in the 3rd Age! This lore is so good 👍

[@xact13]

Sauron in the Third Age would be awesome please-great job keep it coming!

[@teamsteed1]

Thank you for posting the video.

[@GustavDahlander]

Thanks for an interesting video! I believe there's a mistake in the description of the tidings brought by Shagrat, who reported to Sauron not only the encounter with the "Elf warrior" but also that they had captured a person matching the description of a Halfling. This might come across as a plot hole in the story. Upon learning that a Halfling is trying to breach into his land, he would assign considerable resources to recapture the Halfling. Instead, he empties his land to crush the armies of the West to the North. But by the time Shagrat reaches the Barad-dûr, Frodo and Sam are already approaching sight of the Isenmouthe in the north of Mordor, so Sauron would reasonably have sent plenty of resources to the Cirith Ungol area, only that Frodo and Sam never sees much of them. A complication is that Frodo and Sam encounters two Orcs, who are looking for them. Frodo and Sam escape from the Tower of Cirith Ungol on the 15th and encounter the Orcs on the 16th. Shagrat arrives to Barad-dûr on the 17th. However, the two Orcs already on the 16th have orders from "Higher Up": "First they say it’s a great Elf in bright armour, then it's a sort of small dwarf-man". I imagine that Shagrat puts emphasis on the "great Elf" before hurrying on but that someone higher up soon corrects the orders to primarily find the "dwarf-man". And that when Sauron eventually learns of this himself, he puts great effort to try to trace the intruders. After arriving to Barad-dûr, Shagrat is slain by Sauron (Reader's Companion, p. 608), so he doesn't seem to have taken what has befallen lightly. After learning Shagrat's tidings, Sauron has one week to try to find Frodo before the Ring is destroyed, but he can never imagine that anyone would reject power and try to destory the Ring, that's his blind spot, so he logically empties the irrelevant Mount Doom area and, besides trying to quench the hostile army in the North, looks for the Halfling in the West.

[@Kaizensan1775]

Thank you. I have forgotten more than I like, so enjoy an indepth post that including details often no longer easily accessed in my brain housing group.

[@SC-ec8xe]

I think the flaming eye was a good way of showing he was holed up, he had lots of strength but also some limitations. I get that people may have gotten the impression he was the floating eye but those curious enough would eventually read into and learn of his circumstances and form. i think the Jackson films did an amazing job overall. I wish they were 3 times the length and had even more. I wish he was the one in charge of trying to put some of the second age to screen as I am sad ive waited so long and it seems like the odds of it being messed up are pretty high. But I digress. Loved the films and thought they did a great job. However maybe just a quick scene of either golem being tortured and you see his armor are 4 fingered black glove could have helped.

[@thedirtyfecker]

The Jackson films were good, but there are also so many things wrong with them. I hated how the ring wraiths were done. They were not scary or mysterious at all. They were done so much better in the Ralph Bashki movie. My biggest issue with those movies was Frodo holding the ring up to the ring wraith in Osgiliath which made no sense at all. He basically declares himself to the wraiths who would have dropped everything to recover the ring from him. Instead they just wander off going about their business when they had one sole objective to recover the ring and bring it back to Sauron. That was the most idiotic scene in the whole trilogy and left me asking if Jackson and co. understood the story at all?

[@brianmayabella5992]

Similar with Voldemort. His powers were divided into that rings.He gathered to complete the pieces of his full power. The ring is a transportation or bearer of Sauron celestial power to middle earth. The one ring function is to communicate with other rings, it acts like a mother ring

[@Bo_Nix_i_trust]

nice video James and I am subscribed best video on Sauron awesome

[@jameswall1987]

It would have been cool to see a physical sauron for a few scenes, but only in his main hall in Barad- Dur. Liked 👍 and subscribed, keep up the great work friend!

[@cajintexas7751]

I would have preferred at most quick, ambiguous glimpses of a corporeal Sauron. His four-fingered hand passing over the palantir, for example. Maybe his shadow cast on a wall, that sort of thing. Jackson still could have used the eye, but it would have been clear that the eye was just a kind of avatar and not the actual Sauron.

[@sebastianuchtdorf]

Juhu Herr der Ringe Content

[@travisoutlaw9511]

This video is 'Nerd Gold'. Thank you for this video 🙏

[@DarthVader-yq5iz]

This is the first vidéo I see from you, and "Brohirim" had me laughing.

[@planetxmetal]

The flaming eye was an ok metaphor for omnipresence but to avoid the confusion of non-readers Peter Jackson could’ve shown Sauron as a thin, almost translucent embodied figure afraid to go out because of his physical vulnerability but still very much able to speak, direct his servants, and affect his environment around him. Think the way he made the wraiths appear when Frodo had the ring on, but visible to the naked eye, personally overseeing preparations and brooding over thoughts of his ring.

[@petteraven3761]

Great video! As for the question, I would have preferred Sauron in a physical form along the lines envisioned by Tolkien. It would have made him scarier if he looked more human but at the same time utterly inhuman. Sauron should be featured extremely sparingly, though, perhaps only when glimpsed by Pippin in the Palantir, and at the very end when he senses Frodo claiming the ring and realizes his peril. Overuse would reduce his impact on the audience. The Eye could, as others have already commented, be used as a symbolic projection when someone wears The Ring and Sauron senses them, but I have never been comfortable with it being featured as an evil searchlight atop Barad Dur.

[@GreenMachine1975]

SUBBED! KEEP ON KEEPIN' ON!!!

[@flavio17021979]

Sauron in to 3rd age, many thanks for your time and great video

[@deeh5126]

I think Jackson did an outstanding job adapting the tale to film. He set the bar that most other filmmakers fall far short of. I can only think of one other adaptation that hold its own against the source.

[@allanshpeley4284]

What is it?

[@adamus1342]

It's a bit funny how always Gandalf solves the problems in the books but not in the movies. For example he solves the riddle at the Doors of Durin and he comes up with the plan to attack the Black Gate.

[@antondavidovic3996]

He also sees through the Mouth of Sauron's BS whereas its Aragorn in the films (extended cut). I guess having a powerful guardian angel orchestrating everything would give the viewers too much hope

[@TheAlixour]

Thanks for the expansive video. I need to listen to the books again! I love the androgynous interpretations/artwork depicting of Sauron without his armour.

[@justinrivera1618]

The eye was a terrible idea. Your channel is the only reason why I’ve gained a modicum of respect for this franchise

[@johanabigasova6770]

People judge him by his behavior, not knowing why he behaved this way. I don't want to judge him, because I know why Sauron behaved like Sauron. One quote from Silmarillion (about Sauron): "was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself."

[@TheBrokenSword]

He is such an interesting character!

[@dambrooks7578]

​@@TheBrokenSword indeed he his, can we have more please, I have forgotten how to phrase it correctly beyond Sauron...?

[@vannederynen1]

I have always wondered if sauron or saruman ever tried to contact and deal with the Balrog of Moria. What a mighty stronghold and ally if they could join forces

[@annaroselarsen4218]

Awesome video!

[@TheBrokenSword]

Thank you 😁

[@JCResDoc94]

*he had a decorating business o_0?* thats crazy. so much lore. -JC

[@thedirtyfecker]

I didn't like the eye on the top of the tower. Having said that, I always assumed Sauron could not take physical form without the ring. Gollum describes the four fingered hand, but I am not sure this is evidence of a physical form. Sauron could well have been more like a spirit mist type entity. Also, his description of being tortured does not need to be the image of smegol on a torture rack being worked by a big guy in a metal suit. He may well have been mentally tortured by the presence of Sauron's spirit, starved and left in isolation. There are many ways to torture someone. Is there any solid evidence that Sauron was in physical form? Sauron was a Mayar just like Gandalf. When Gandalf was killed his spirit went back to Valinor or the Halls of Mandos where he was given a new body. When Sauron was killed I would think much the same thing happened, but unlike Gandalf, his spirit was linked to the ring since he had poured most of his spirit and power into it when it was made. The way I see it, only with the ring could he re-establish his full form as he had been parted from it and losing the ring to begin with is the whole reason he had been vanquished as he had been parted from it. Surely he needed it again to become whole again?

[@jonathankieranwriter]

Good points, but it is difficult to think that Sauron’s spirit was incapable of growing in strength to the point wherein he could craft some manner of physical form, even without the ring. If he were merely a misty, diaphanous spirit in Barad-dur, it seems strange that Gollum would have noticed such a distinctive physical anomaly as an amputated finger. Would a purely ghostly Sauron have manifested an old injury? The presence of his eye, actually visible to Pippin in the palantir and said to be physically watching from some upper-level of the dark tower, also seems to indicate the reality of a physical manifestation-even if Sauron’s ability to assume the kind of physical form he preferred was compromised in certain ways by the lack of the Ring or by his disgraceful ruin in the Fall of Numenor, where we learn that he was never able to assume a fair form again. So, obviously, his abilities to take certain physical forms were mitigated by factors both related and unrelated to his possession of the ring. In addition, we know that, in the First Age, before the rings were made, Sauron was powerful enough to take many different physical forms, in swift succession, even when gravely injured, e.g. when Luthien and Huan subdued him and he shape-shifted in an attempt to repel their attack. Tolkien noted that Sauron was of a “much higher order” of Maiar spirits than the spirits that came to inhabit the bodies of the Istari wizards, so perhaps he had the unique strengths at his disposal to eventually generate new physical incarnations-strengths that the wizard-spirits did not possess, at least while separated from their native realm in the Undying Lands. Also, Tolkiens remark that Galadriel, while using her magic to repel the three assaults upon Lothlorien, could not be defeated by anyone in Middle Earth unless Sauron had come to assist personally (and presumably still without the ring) seems to imply a physical presence or existing form at the time. Like you, though, I think it is quite possible that Tolkien intended to describe Sauron as if her were a disembodied eye because, in fact, Sauron was not entirely embodied due to his Last Alliance defeat and his long dispossession of the Ring. Tolkien certainly does not describe Sauron as even leaving his tower chamber; everything was accomplished through the agency of the Nazgul and other minions like the Mouth of Sauron. I think it’s quite possible you are correct and that Tolkien left this matter mysterious on purpose because he himself considered Sauron to have only partially managed to craft a distorted and incomplete physical form at that point in time. It would make some sense. Again, my only doubt about the matter is that Gollum noticed the four-fingered blackened hand while under torment/interrogation, which seems to imply that he saw Sauron enfleshed, and that the best Sauron could manage without the ring was to conjure up the defeated physical body he was left with at the moment the ring was cut from his person.

[@thedirtyfecker]

@@jonathankieranwriter I am not an expert on the matter as it has been a fair while since I read the books, but my understanding of Tolkien's universe in general is that in the 1st age magic was everywhere. As time went on, the world became less and less 'fantastic' and more and more 'normal'. This seemed to happen through the use of power. I don't think it is written anywhere, but I always got the impression that when Mayar and other powerful beings used their power it was gone forever. By pouring out their power into something they lost part of themselves in the process and became less powerful than they were. We see this again and again with Feanor making the Silmarils, the creation of the two trees and so on. Once made, their like would never be seen again and nobody had the means of recreating them again. Sauron created the ring and when he did so, he poured a huge part of himself into it. He has very little strength without it, but with it he found a way to amplify his strength. When Sauron lost the ring he was cut off from most of his power, but did not die because the ring still existed. As Tolkien described, because the ring was not destroyed, he was once again able to 'take shape and grow again'. I always envisioned him as a misty cloud like entity or like one of his wraiths. His hand could be seen in that way, but he was not the 'dark lord' he once was when he had the ring. Tall, cruel and unstoppable. More than anything, I think when Tolkien wrote Sauron in LotR's he found the story telling device of not showing the villain first hand and only portraying him as a threat to be a powerful story telling device and found that far more valuable than breaking the spell and revealing his whole hand of cards. It was never his intention to portray him as a physical presence because he found the third-hand descriptions and vagueness far more powerful for tweaking the imagination of the reader than simply describing him outright. Books work on the readers imagination to form pictures in the readers mind about what they are reading. Tolkien tapped into this with Sauron for maximum effect. With this in mind, I think he kept the whole subject of exactly what he was like deliberately vague. So, I would argue it is up for interpretation. If you think he was physical I can see your reasoning for that, but if that was what Tolkien really intended, then he did a very bad job of articulating that to the reader which is very uncharacteristic of a writer who was famous for over-describing EVERYTHING. I don't know, I think you can choose to see it both ways, it is hard to know.

[@trekstarsam2494]

@@thedirtyfecker Yes, I believe that the process was called "Diminishing.", I believe Tolkien talked about it in a letter. All Valar and Maiar (Morgoth and Sauron here) who went against the music of Eru Illuvatar, were essentially "cut off" from their source of power and would start to diminish, even though they were immortal beings. Eru designed them to have a natural source of power, but once rebelling, were cut off from the source. It's the exact opposite of what happened to gandalf. When he lost his mortal body, he was immediately resurrected by Mandos (or maybe even Eru himself) and given more powers than he had before, in order to complete his task. However, once a Maiar "disconnected" from the source of the music, they were on their own. Their strength would diminish over the millenia until eventually they would turn into impotent spirits the way Sauron did when the ring was destroyed for good, and also Sauruman did after he was killed. This diminishing happened to the elves as well. Even though they still overall walked in tune with Eru's Song, Middle Earth was corrupted and diminishing and their physical bodies would as well as long as they were tied to it, leading most of them to take ship over sea to Aman, if they stayed in middle earth forever, they would be reduced to nothing but disembodied ghosts (Saruman mentioned this to Galadriel close to the end of the third book, after the ring was destroyed.) The same would also happen to Maiar if they lost all of their powers and the ability to take any form. Once Gandalf broke Saruman's staff, most of the limited power he was allowed to have by the Valar was gone. All he had was his aged, broken wizard body. He could never recover his powers again unless he submitted himself to the Valar and they found him worthy, which of course, they wouldn't after all the trouble he had caused. Sauron's power diminished in every single battle he had, eventually to the point where he couldn't appear fair anymore or shapeshift in any manner, and it took him thousands of years to be strong enough to take physical form again after losing his ruling ring, yet he was still diminishing, little by little. I compare it to when humans break a bone. We are completely immobile for awhile, but if we wait long enough, the bone will heal to the point where we can use it again, and with a little therapy, can return to near its former strength, but at the same time, even though the bone has healed, our whole bodies are still diminishing, or in our case, growing weaker with age, and in 20-25 years that broken bone of the past most likely will give us a lot of trouble again as our entire body starts to get weak and fail. So even though Sauron was able to recover himself somewhat, he poured most of his spirit and strength into his ring. He had very limited power without it and would continue to diminish at a rapid rate to the point where he wasn't willing at all to risk another battle without it. If it took him 2000 years to recover enough to take a form again, if by any chance he was vanquished again, it would take him perhaps twice that, or maybe he wouldn't have been able to at all, even with his ring, which is a physical object, and would need a physical body to wield. He was wise to stay held up in mount doom pulling the strings from behind the scenes. He definitely wouldn't risk getting into another physical battle with his diminishing powers. A good idea for a "what if" video: "What if Sauron was defeated again before the ring was ever found (for example, in Dol Guldur?) What options would he have? Would he have been able to take on another body and how long would it have taken for him to recover again or would this even be possible for him?

[@jamesc2201]

I think in the Two Towers novel it's established that Sauron did indeed have a physical form. When Pippin looked into the Palantir it describes Sauron talking to Pip and it would seem he had an actual earthly presence and not just a spirit.

[@thedirtyfecker]

@@jamesc2201 There is no reason to think that Pippin speaking to Sauron through the Palantir meant Sauron was in physical form. He could just as easily have been a spirititual force in Barad Dur wielding the device. I think Tolkien was deliberately ambiguous when it came to Sauron. He is famous for over-describing things. If he meant us to be sure he was corporeal then he would have written it that way. Everything to do with Sauron is shady I think by design. Sauron was vanquished. Just like Gandalf, being a Mayar, when this happened his spirit should have returned to Valinor. This didn't happen I think because a huge part of him remained in middle Earth wrapped up in the ring. In order to take shape again he needed the ring I think. We know he is incomplete without it. Just like Morgoth who poured a huge amount of his power into the corruption of Arda, Sauron did the same by manifesting his spirit within the ring and just like Morgoth he was diminished by this, becoming a less powerful being in the process. It was a trade off from being a fully elemental force to becoming a physical being in the world. I think Sauron was cippled without his ring and his real force was the orcs and the ring wraiths that still served him. That was why he needed it so badly.

[@lukerobertson5108]

Hey man, massive fan of your channel! I''m Welsh myself, and I could be completely wrong, but you seem to sound quite Welsh at points during your videos and I was just wondering if you were Welsh, or if my hearing is impaired Cheers man, thank you for the content and keep on nerding out!

[@mazed363]

Sauron in the third age. Great video as always

[@yodaslovetoy]

Everyone asks "what was sauron doing" but never "why was sauron doing it"...

[@TheBrokenSword]

Or even, “how was Sauron doing?”

[@_semih_]

Lol

[@whoshotashleybabbitt4924]

Sauron was having a rough day. He really needed a hug. But no one ever asked!

[@stephenhill6003]

The eye worked for me and actually not seeing him made him all the scarier.

[@bill-gray]

Great video.

[@alfredborden5675]

Amazing video

[@Seraphus87]

Showing Sauron in an actual humanoid body with his missing finger, sitting on a throne and giving orders or pouring over a table with maps would have worked quite well IMO.

[@rezarfar]

I doubt it to be honest, the fact that we never see him gives a menacing mystique about him that wouldn't of been there is he was seen physically ordering things around and doing leadery things.

[@ricardotolbert1797]

@@rezarfar we kinda get a glimpse because Frodo sees him when he puts on the ring…Aragorn and Pippin see him through the palantir. Also Gollum describes him for Frodo, Sam and us the reader

[@alanmike6883]

True

[@Torgo1001]

"Don't worry, once Steiner counterattacks, everything will be alright."

[@cleanerben9636]

@@Torgo1001 "My Lord...Steiner..." "Steiner didn't have enough Orcs. The attack didn't take place."

[@planetxmetal]

I’d love to see a “what if” video of “what if Radagast had gotten involved in the War of the Ring”. I know he was interested in his birds and beasts but would his true purpose have re-awakened in him. Would he have been pivotal in the ents attack on Isengard and then the remaining orc forces at Helms Deep. It seems like Radagast just sort of “sat this one out” and shirked his duty.

[@bnipmnaa]

You've obviously never read the book.

[@trekstarsam2494]

The Valar apparently agreed with you. He was not allowed back to Valinor with honor at the end as he cared so much for the animal and plant world he forsook elves and men-- but apparently not his fellow Maia. He did help Gandalf escape his Orthanc prison by sending Gwaihir, the Lord of the Eagles, to rescue him. However, he also was indirectly responsible for having him captured, as he carried a message to Gandalf that Saruman was summoning him to Orthanc, which was a trick from Saruman to get Gandalf to come there. He told Gandalf that the Nine were about and would use the birds to keep an eye on things going on in the area and spy for him. But during the entire War of the Ring, all he did was assist Gandalf, which was apparently not enough to appease the Valar. But Tolkien did also write that his failure wasn't as great as Saruman's, as he did not fall to evil, and that he may have been allowed (or could have chosen) one day to return.

[@riverdrake836]

Sauron in the third age. Love the vids btw. 😎👍

[@webx135]

I know in the Peter Jackon films, there was supposed to be a fight between Aragorn and Sauron, that they replaced with a troll. (Intentional irony?) But having come from the movies originally, I did like the idea of Sauron not having a physical form and existing merely as a "spiritual force", like a force of nature, that required the ring in order to gain a physical form and interact directly. So basically he would appear as an eye in one place, or as a voice in another place, or would appear in visions and dreams, raise the dead as an invisible necromancer in other places, and command armies through intangible force of will manipulation and dominance. And that the only thing allowing this spiritual interaction with the rest of the world was the fact that the one ring still existed, keeping his spirit bound to the physical world without having a physical form. Or rather, that the ring WAS his physical form during this period. To me this really worked for the films at least. It made Sauron more of a force of nature than a direct commander. It made him feel "ever-present" and all the more powerful. It's one of those cases where there's no need to reveal the macguffin because all you need is the existance of it and to view its effects in order to drive the plot.

[@venkelos6996]

Personally, I usually complain, as I wish Sauron had been a more involved villain; used more of his supernatural power to crush his enemies, but oh well. Since he was never going to sally forth, I am glad for the Great Eye element. Despite Saruman incorrectly stating "he cannot yet take physical form", I never saw it that way. Sauron, looking like he did at the end of the Second Age, could easily be manning Barad-dur, and the Great Eye was simply a device he used to represent his use of said supernatural power. I didn't feel like it had to be instead of a body, but could be more like the visual component/effect of a spell he used; something like a Palantir orb. Also, I felt it gave him a presence, since he wasn't an "active" character in the foreground of the movie.

[@averybaumann]

Notice how the Christian god and (Islam has assassinated people who attempted to illustrate their god or Mohammad. )don't have a human avatar- historicly they felt it would lower the power level to their god as a person(old testement).

[@dalesteffens6769]

Bet Saruman does not say that in the book I would sure like to see the quote. It is like the Hobbit with the orc Azog if you read the Lord of the Rings history back of the book Azog was killed in a war at least 80 years before the Hobbit took place. Dale

[@venkelos6996]

@@dalesteffens6769 I'm well aware; mostly just meant that, in the movie, if we weren't going to see Sauron, it was nice to have a representation, and in the book, I could still have imagined the Great Eye above Barad-dur, even with Sauron walking around within. No, in the book, the entire interaction between Gandalf and Saruman is much briefer, and more vague. Gandalf just gets caught, and escapes, and neither do much in between, all off-page.

[@sebastianuchtdorf]

Sauron in the third age

[@pandoraeeris7860]

He was just chillin' and vibin'.

[@h8rdw8r3]

Would love to see another video about Sauron in the third age!

[@1Drakorn]

I actually like Sauron's depiction of a flaming eye in the movies, as it would have been too much of a hassle to depict him in a decrepit physical form hiding in Barad-Dur. The Eye looked iconic and it really drove home the idea that Sauron could see everything. Plus, the Eye can be interpreted in several ways. Was it Sauron's spirit keeping watch atop the tower? The Hobbit movies showed us that Sauron is actually the pupil while the iris is a ring of fire surrounding him, resembling an eye. Or was it perhaps Sauron's palantir given more of a physical potency? Plus, I think showing Sauron in physical form would have undoubtedly led to disappointment if there wouldn't have been some kind of confrontation with him and the heroes. They would have pretty much needed to show the scrapped Aragorn vs Sauron fight at the Black Gate then.

[@samc9133]

I agree! I understand the concern in the interpretation being so literal, but this was really *the* best way to portray Sauron and keep his role and the overall tone of the story the same. Sauron is not supposed to be a face for you to remember, or an actor or anything. He is Evil with a capital E and I just don't think scenes of his body fading or exploding or whatever would have felt as impaction as the scenes of the eye going out as Barad-Dur collapses. I really believe the original films were about as good as cinema gets for adapting a book to a movie. Where things were changed it was at least *felt* right in the story and there weren't many weird choices... Ultimately they could've been truer to the books but ended been worse movies in the process.

[@gr8oone007]

I’m just glad they didn’t include the “boss battle” they were thinking of at the black gate.

[@BigRa20091]

I love the videos you do

[@x2leon263]

Sauron in the third age please. I'm sure it's gonna be another great video like this one. 😃

[@allanjuta]

The flaming eye was good if you believe “less is more”. The flaming eye conveys Sauron as something more mysterious and omnipresent even if it was not so Displaying a physical form may well have diminished that idea to some degree

[@Marcus-ki1en]

I think focusing on the four fingered hand drumming on a throne arm or being rubbed by the other hand as if the missing finger was causing pain could have been a good cinematic device. I wonder if he was afraid or apprehensive of coming out of his tower. After all the time before had cost him his body, finger and ring. Better to rule from the shadows.

[@Charles-A]

So he had PTSD. I don't know how to feel about that

[@itzybitzyspyder]

At 20:00 you asked if Sauron in the movies being represented as the eye was a good move. I think it is. I think less is more. Jaws was so fake the more you saw it. That scene in The Godfather where Michael Corleone and Sollozzo are having a conversation in Sicilian and there are no subtitles. You and that dirty cop feel the alienation of not belonging to that world. I think that the eye of Sauron being so large and looming was always this distant threat constantly hiding just outside of your peripheral, taking refuge in your blindspot. Hiding in plain sight. I recently watched all the movies again in one day and it's just so fresh. Love your videos and you're a primary source for lore in my D&D 5e LotR campaign that I'll be running for some frinds.

[@trajic9204]

He's just standing there.... menacingly!!!

[@suckmyfuckingdic]

The eye in the movies is actually ridiculous xD I think the reason they chose to portray Sauron as a gigantic burning eye is because they misinterpreted the books. Would have been better if Sauron had been shown as a shadowy figure in the palantíri than a huge memeable eye.

[@tonyhinrichs1869]

Sauron in the third age please, and I love your channel and all the content thank you!

[@IgaTenzen]

He was chillin like the boss he is !

[@TarMody]

The greatest feature of divine beings like Sauron is the power of their will rather than physical strength and the conflict of these wills is one of the main themes in the Tolkien's legendarium.

[@strider3743]

I think the mystery of no appearance except an evil eye was well played. Plus now the Rings of power series can use that mystery.Then creating intrest to what will Sauron look like?

[@StuartChignell]

I always took the eye as the visual effect of the magical horns of the tower which was a massive scrying/ communication device. Suaron never left the tower because as soon as he did he would lose the ability to communicate with his minions.

[@nonope2207]

About whether the film change of portraying Sauron as the flaming eye is better or not I can't say, but I can say is that them adapting the books into that absolutely fits the spirit of the books completely, for reasons you go over in the video. It's a stark contrast to the absurd, garbage "adaption" changes we get in fantasy these days, i.e. Wheel of Time, Game of Thrones, House of the Dragons, etc. Where a writer just randomly decides "Hey I'm gonna change that because I know better" while betraying the very essence of what the original thing was.

[@one1blue]

I always wanted Sauron to have more of a “bodily appearance” in the movies. You just want to see him so badly when you’re watching them.

[@nigeldepledge3790]

The Eye of Sauron is referenced frequently in the books. It is the badge of the orcs from Mordor that captured Merry and Pippin alongside the Uruk-Hai. The Witch-King refers to "the lidless eye" when he speaks to Éowyn on the Pelennor Fields ("Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey. Or he will not slay thee in thy turn . . ."). And then there's Frodo's experience with the Mirror of Galadriel and when he sat upon the seat of Amon Hen. I'm fairly sure that he saw a lidless eye, wreathed in fire, as the representation of Sauron's will on both occasions.