What we get wrong about affirmative action

The latest allegation that Harvard discriminates against Asians could kill affirmative action altogether.
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An alleged discrimination case against Harvard has put the affirmative action debate in the spotlight again - this time with Asian Americans being used to make the case against it. But the problem is, the way we talk about race in college admissions hasn’t changed for years…and it’s often wrong.
While we may think of affirmative action as a policy that boosts college applicants of color to help undo the effects of historical discrimination - the Supreme Court has actually narrowed the use of affirmative action over decades of rulings. And now, armed with an allegation that Harvard is using race in college admissions to discriminate against Asian applicants - conservative opponents of affirmative action may put the issue back in the hands of a majority-conservative Supreme Court.
Watch the video above to find out what we get wrong about the debate, and how Asians may fit into the complicated use of affirmative action in US college admissions.
For more in-depth reading, check out these articles:
www.vox.com/2018/3/28/1703146...
www.vox.com/2018/10/18/179841...
Vox.com is a news website that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Check out www.vox.com.
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[@Vox]

The lawsuit against Harvard not only forces us to talk about where Asian Americans fit into the affirmative action debate, but also their role in the racial equity debate. Read why on vox.com: bit.ly/2C1Bc56

[@madaakusto6771]

Because why earn a place in a college when you can just be black? So glad I can get into one for the sole reason I'm a minority with decent grades.

[@RejectedRefund]

This video was poorly thought out and it seems to contradict itself. If people want to have a discussion about topics first step might be to stop thinking anything in this nuanced world can be simply represented by wishy washy thoughts everything is a case by case basis. Also any rule written down will eventually look poorly thought out that is the nature of static rules in a fluid society.

[@MM-ty6cu]

I heard there were remarkably great universities in Africa, Asia and Mexico. Harvard-like quality:)

[@ststst981]

@@madaakusto6771 yes thats exactly how it works. Just be black. You nailed it genius.

[@NorfolkCatKickers]

maybe they should black up the asian students

[@defaultmesh]

But why race tho? I mean, why don't just base the system by wealth? poorer students get some advantages while other students are treated the same no matter the race.

[@Ashkanman]

classism =/= discrimination

[@rampant1apart]

Because people would still be turned away because they weren't white, regardless of income.

[@michalapalmer8874]

Ahmes Syahda you do realize this country has created a system that often tries to bar black ppl from receiving higher education. AA is trying alleviate that, pls I would ask research discrimination practices used against black and brown people trying to get an education

[@paynefanbro]

Because even poor White people have a leg up on poor Black people in society.

[@cavalrycome]

Imagine an equally wealthy black and white person. Given the existence of racial discrimination, we can expect that the black person has had to work harder and exhibit greater ability than the white person to achieve the same outcome, so is more worthy of admission.

[@alessandroagnitti4791]

As a non american I don't understand one thing: how can universities judge "kindness", "courage" or "leadership" of applicants? Are there objective parameters for measure them?

[@Chrisof300]

its based on involvement in school organizations or some extracurricular activities as the video showed. Like being involved in a local charity, a youth leadership council, etc. Of course its subjective but its all derived from that.

[@ianrenfrow5125]

They mostly look at top of class students. People who did something stand out like be a president of a club or they definitely suck the dicks of community service participators. Which is ironic cause I don’t know a single kid from high school that did community service for their own pleasure, just so it would look good in their application. To me that kinda of attitude demonstrates more self interest than actual kindness, but hey as long as theirs an illusion of “caring for your community” they’ll keep admitting ego driven little shits.

[@DW-yx1pw]

black or brown are the objective parameters

[@axidhaus]

Those are non white traits

[@axidhaus]

@@ianrenfrow5125 especially

[@sambradley7393]

In the UK, we give an advantage based on household income rather than ethnicity. Not only is this much more politically acceptable, but it largely correlates to ethnicity whilst not abandoning poorer white people.

[@sandykahlon]

It's political correct, But how to uplift the people who were deprived for equal opportunity lack of guidance, means, money etc for more than centuries, who are weaker section of the society and seen lower too due to discrimination.

[@justinyoung1124]

​ It's true. It is also true that most Asians suffered systematic discrimination after coming to the U.S, such as the notorious Chinese exclusion act.

[@laverdadbuscador]

i wish it was done by income

[@FunctionFIVE]

I had no idea, what an awesome idea

[@alfonstabz9741]

@@sandykahlon giving advantage to poorer people to get good education. that is what Sam Bradley said which part of it you didn't understand to what he said.?

[@jacobl6109]

Yay! Let’s fight racism by, wait for it..... MORE RACISM!

[@gostavoadolfos2023]

Let's fight racism with subhuman leftism.

[@MrRichMurphy]

Exactly. I had decided not to vote. Was Democrat but tired of all the racism

[@jacobl6109]

BlendFlix Animation one problem with that. They fail out at a much higher rate because they are going to colleges That are too hard for what they know. Look at the numbers, they drop out even more as a result of affirmative action. You got a look at all the contingencies. These colleges have standards for GPA and SAT scores for a reason. Their school is hard. So accepting anyone who is not qualified to go to their school doesn’t do any good because they won’t complete the college. They just fail out. Ontop of that, you deny more qualified individuals who could have actually completed the college. The solution is to be blind to race, and fix the education system in middle and high schools. Also, reduce the rate of how many black kids grow up in single parent households (which is at 80%!!!!) those are the problems as to why they aren’t educated as well. We should never make standards less to make more people able to come it. Think the Navy SEALs are going to make their training less intense to let woman in? No! That will get someone killed. If a woman is going to make it, she has to do the same thing as all the men do and as well as they do. Same for black students or any race. Let’s just stop viewing anything through race anymore. Race should be a non factor in this.

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

Rich murphy so its racist to consider more than just SAT scored in evaluating a qualified candidate smh

[@davidcrooks3985]

Rwaana Barnes awarding and deducting points outweighing SAT scores IS racist.

[@roderick167]

So.. affirmative action is about equality of outcome.. NOT equality of opportunity

[@YoungGzBlitz]

It's neither

[@stsk7]

Which if you know Sowell or Peterson is catastrophic...

[@not.a.robott]

No it's literally about the fact that people don't have equal opportunity

[@lordfawkesvonproudhon9656]

@@not.a.robott you in the middle east?

[@rickrollrizal2364]

@@not.a.robott you in North Korea?

[@europeansovietunion7372]

You don't fix past injustices by creating new injustices...

[@KelVGC]

Should he be compensated with the money forcibly taken from another one of your victims? You're making false comparisons.

[@pendejo6466]

@@jzk2020 So we should lock white people NOW for slavery committed in the PAST?

[@eclipse5393]

Unfortunately, that's how feminists and the far-left thinks. They think everything is about identity politics and oppression.

[@Spandam]

@@jzk2020 no one is interested in your erotic novels you degenerate

[@neginnasiri3198]

@@jzk2020 so basically, if you rape my daughter, does that mean 3 generations down the road my daughter gets to rape yours? Thats what it is! Because someone's ancestor made a crime, doesnt mean their kids should suffer consequences

[@c.i.a.932]

If this is the best argument for affirmative action, then I don’t think this is a good idea.

[@cretaceoussteve3527]

This is more just explaining the situation than arguing for something. It's trying to get people to care that all this country's systems of selection and appraisal are tainted by racism in every way because of its history. And we have that discrimination even with some government protections and affirmative action. So what are we supposed to do about racial inequalities? Maybe affirmative action isn't the best way to balance inequality because of the backlash it raises, but the thing is, many people who don't like affirmative action also don't believe that discrimination exists to the extent that it still does and don't support any policy efforts to combat it... and so america spins in circles for what is going on more than half a century since the civil rights act of '64, while in the meantime real people deal with the consequences.

[@4781289]

It’s vox. Their arguments aren’t all that good to begin with.

[@c.i.a.932]

@Cretaceous Steve But America is already racially balanced by law... It’s easier for a black person to get a job with equal requirements due to forced diversity...

[@Tarz2155]

Think of it as a handicap space . I couldn’t get into schools like that even if I wanted to simply because of the area that I live in it’s underfunded

[@Joel-hw5sl]

@@Tarz2155 Well imagine you were a bad student but you got into a good school anyway. You are more likely to fail and never go back to college.

[@LibertyLocalizer]

Vox had a dream, that one day, people will be judged by the color of their skin, and not the content of their character.

[@sirscrotum]

I dont trust the ideological children of slavery, secession, segregation and Jim Crow as any kind of moral authority on matters of race in this country.

[@BasedRanger]

@@sirscrotum Indeed. Democrats can't escape their racist past, nor do they want to.

[@doujinflip]

In America, the color of your skin does influence the content of your character because of the way others treat you, and thus the mentality you develop.

[@LM-ix7pk]

Doncarlo Agustino only racists thing that way

[@abbygriffin9105]

Lol, for real.

[@grantmartin2002]

It is as simple as this: Employers and colleges should base their decisions on competence and nothing else.

[@Luca-sz5uy]

yeah, its so simple, why arent they doing it

[@zuwenaw]

Wouldn't that be an ideal world. Unfortunately we still have people that will choose same competency Tom Smith over Tyrell Washington just by looking at their name.

[@genericuser-1]

@@zuwenaw And they would be doing a disservice not only to Tyrell Washington, but themselves as well. I have a hard time believing that a significant amount of people would act in such a way that harms their own interests purely based on racial prejudice.

[@TheSoulReaper70]

@@zuwenaw Could you give me a source

[@tylerball9752]

Candice W Millones what race is Tyrell and what race is Tom? You can’t give a hypothetical about race and then not mention race.

[@MrBLAA]

Ahhhhhhh!!! I see👆 The best way to _NOT_ _BE_ _RACIST_ ... _is_ _to_ _be_ _racist_ *thanks VOX✌️

[@houseofzuma1033]

lol indeed

[@gabrielmartin977]

How do we fix a wrong? Well two wrongs don't ma- Vox: *NOPE! MORE WRONGS! WRONGS FIX EVERYTHING*

[@daroostah8940]

Libtardation at it's finest.

[@gostavoadolfos2023]

@@daroostah8940 I call it subhuman leftism.

[@limitslines9896]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw this video and felt this way to

[@jamiebowles4588]

"... and Conservatives will finally get the color-blind process they've long dreamed of." It's not OUR dream- WHO said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today."

[@ToastGamingNCrew]

Its not OUR dream, But I'll be damned if I let his idea go to waste simply because someone has feelings.

[@jamiebowles4588]

@@ToastGamingNCrew Amen. It was (and remains) a noble dream. I was merely pointing out that the greatest civil rights leader of the 20th century wanted to see this country "color-blind". Lefties use the term as code for racist.

[@jamiebowles4588]

@Vivian De La Paz, I doubt that. YOU DON'T KNOW ME. I think the Rev would approve if I recommend these two quotes of our Saviour: Matthew 7:1 John 7:24

[@alana1959]

it would make sense for our colleges to be color-blind if our society was, but so much racism was built into the infrastructure of this nation that it doesn’t make sense, yet. There’s is too much disparities for people of color to face in America today for us to pretend that race does not matter right now.

[@eBikProductions]

you know that MLK was a liberal, right?

[@jetconway5995]

6:34 are they trying to say asians weren't discriminated against well enough?

[@LizBaloney]

Jet Conway pretty much

[@lindenpeters2601]

Yeah I guess those internment camps FDR approved didn't last long enough for them to count as discrimination.

[@casperguo7177]

That whole part is just straight-up nonsense, try saying that about blacks or latinos

[@justthatnerdyfashion]

No. They mean that Asian Americans weren't subjected to discriminatory policies that would hinder them from getting a higher education. Jim Crow and Redlining hindered a lot of black families ability to obtain and pass down wealth and therefore send their kids to college, among other things.

[@LM-ix7pk]

Fashionista but Jim Crow and redlining didn’t necessarily hinder black families from passing down wealth. If there was a rich black man who had two kids, then he could pass down his knowledge to them.

[@youngobes]

this didn't discuss a major reason Asians are discriminated against at schools like Harvard: legacy admissions

[@timogul]

Which is a fair point. The one place where I could see a role for affirmative action would be in removing legacy advantage entirely. The thing to keep in mind, however, is that let's say a school does include Legacy admissions, and that means that out of 100 slots, 20 slots are automatically off the table, and they go to white children of white parents. does that mean that it would be fair to offer 20 offsetting slots to non-white students, since those 20 white students got a free pass? Of course not, because if there were 5 white students applying that would be deserving of those slots in a fair contest, *they* are in no way benefiting from the fact that the 20 legacy students got in, so why should they be punished for the color of their skin? That's the problem when you consider race as a factor, the result will inevitably be racist, even if the goal is to balance out inequality. Deliberate race-based "balancing" only makes sense when you are considering race as some sort of a war, where races are winning and losing based on collective gains. In the actual world, it's all just individuals, one white person gains little due to another white person's achievement, so if ten white people do very well, that's no reason to knock a different white person back a peg to "balance things out." If the problem is certain white people gaining an advantage, then you correct that advantage, you don't try to take away from *different* people of that same skin color.

[@alicia9748]

I heard they're getting rid of that

[@5pctLowBattery]

Asian-Americans express resentment toward blacks and Latinos for benefiting from affirmative action. However, White Women benefit most from affirmative action - and are among its fiercest opponents. Diversity has emerged as an overwhelming increase in the presence of white women, not necessarily people of color. Asian-American applicants challenge the colorblind meritocracy myth. According to a sociological study in 2009, white applicants were three times more likely to be admitted to selective schools than Asian applicants with the exact same academic record. And a 2013 survey found that white adults in California deemphasize the importance of test scores when Asian Americans, whose average test scores are higher than white students, are considered. *Furthermore, existing race-neutral admissions policies like legacy admissions show that taking race out of the equation doesn't make admissions processes any more fair.* While the term “model minority” substantiates a myth about how whites value Asians, Asians are only “model minorities” when they are small in number with minimal influence on a community. When Asians “set the norms of academic achievement by which whites are evaluated [and] ultimately usurp those previously in place,” once heralded Asian achievements are critiqued with suspicion.

[@jwil4286]

To the universities though, legacy admissions have a benefit: they increase alumni donations. If an alumni donor’s child wants to go there, the parent could simply say no more donations if their child is accepted.

[@ToastGamingNCrew]

@@5pctLowBattery citations? I might not totally disagree with you, but the scientific method has always told me to provide the instructions to recreate the experiment.

[@typarker4566]

You won't ever find out how I got this many likes

[@yashpermalla3494]

only sane comment here

[@penguin5096]

Completely agree. This would solve the entire issue.

[@elijahfoster2]

Well, the video is arguing that the primary purpose for affirmative action (now) is to generate diversity. But while I agree that ALL racism is wrong, it would be a simple fix to just shift the focus to ability-to-pay if they really want to include a larger percentage of minorities. If it doesn't work, then clearly we are all about on the same level after all.

[@edwink1467]

Ty Parker Agreed. Being Black doesn’t mean being poor. Being White doesn’t mean being upper middle class living in the suburbs. Being Asian doesn’t mean one is boring and get good grades only. Affirmative action itself is based on racial stereotypes and such outdated system must be changed.

[@x6xk1LLx9x]

Which massively correlates with race, you aren't advocating for much different that what's already happening.

[@drsch]

So, I just want to make sure I understand what Vox is getting at here: Their conclusion is that if Universities were required to only look at academic scores and performance rather than the color of someone's skin, there is no chance that minorities (ignoring Asians for some reason) would be able to perform and make the cut. Basically, the point of the video is that Blacks and Hispanics are incapable of achieving things based on performance and must rely on the color of their skin to achieve. Isn't that kind of...racist?

[@eb.e.1649]

🤔

[@chrispacmanjones2765]

It’s called the soft bigotry of low expectations.

[@eb.e.1649]

So you have to be racist so as not to be racist

[@ClubPenguinFan106]

It’s blatantly racist no if’s ands or buts

[@dman7857]

If it is a fact it's not racist. If it is a lie it could be considered racist.

[@lilyracken7249]

"But this isn't because Asians work harder or care more about education". what? then why is it then? I'm going to be more skeptical of what Vox says from now on.

[@jakesthe1805]

Eugenics at its finest

[@seanmatthewking]

You missed the point. The success of Asians in America is largely due to the fact that we specifically select for affluent and educated Asian immigrants. I wouldn’t personally include the language about not working harder or caring more about education without backing it up with facts. But I think what they might be saying is it’s not like Asian immigrants were at equal standing with black Americans and Latino immigrants and then pulled themselves up by the bootstraps. They arrived with an advantage. Again this doesn’t mean they don’t work harder or care more about education-affluence and educated parents are well-known determinants of a child’s success, but that could be in part because they are able to get their kids to work harder.

[@vaughntitus2127]

He explained it directly after. The idea that asians just work harder is a fallacy that expresses a narrow view of asian culture.

[@wesleyrm]

@@jakesthe1805 Eugenics is about purging those deemed 'impure'. Like killing those with disabilities. Selecting better qualified people for immigration is only fair. Just think about it, man. Imagine how hard these people work to come to the USA. Do you want them to be put behind just to throw in some random people, now? They fought for the opportunity and deserve it. People look at success and effort as a negative thing nowadays... I am not even from the USA and I recognize that.

[@extractur8122]

@@wesleyrm yeah it was hard to get to America. I personally experienced this, our family had to wait 6 years to get our green card. There was a language barrier so it was difficult for my parents to get jobs, my dad had to work 4 jobs in China. It was hard getting here

[@timothygulyn2194]

I hate how whenever vox has an agenda they want to push, instead of stating it explicitly they say “we suck at talking about it”.

[@abc12369]

@Bear Arms everyone has an agenda, nothing wrong with it.

[@timothygooding9544]

@@abc12369 yea but when you try to make it look like you are neutral and THEN put in your agenda thats where its wrong Just state your stance and explain why, and theres no problem about talking about the other side as long as its respectful. Just don't lie Theres nothing wrong with an agenda, but be honest about it

[@kueapel911]

6:13 oh gee, thanks... I guess my chinese mom who worked 11 hours a day and my chinese dad who worked 13 hours a day back then didn't work harder than other people... I guess me myself who didn't get the luxury to play with friends on the weekend because of my supplementary lessons wasn't really cared that much about education and didn't study harder... thanks for the clarification vox, almost thought I tried harder but apparently not...

[@danieljrjang5873]

アップルパイ exactly, it feels like everyone thinks that that because I’m Asian I was handed everything. But in actuality, I worked for it

[@TomikaKelly]

No, you actually didn't. My Black immigrant family worked more hours than what you just stated your parents worked. My Black and Latinx immigrant community worked just as hard, and in many cases harder than what you just said your family did. My sibling and I didn't play on weekends either, we worked, sooo...🤷🏿‍♀️

[@kueapel911]

​@@TomikaKelly thank you for the revelation, kind stranger! In any case, nobody ever worked at all compared to holocaust forced labor... oh wait, not even them work hard... the south eastern romusha worker from japanese occupation was working harder... OH NO, not even them... welp, nobody ever worked hard, so... I guess ants wins huh? You're pretty smart to notice this, kind stranger... I guess those who "actually" worked hard in their life do need to undermine other's hard work to prove that they are "working" harder. No wonder these people from vice made the video... they are all hard workers!

[@vaughntitus2127]

THAT'S HIS WHOLE POINT MY MOM A HARD WORKER TOO!

[@ghrndez]

@@kueapel911 Such a great come back my friend I applaud you. This comment is free of all sarcasm

[@theamazingmann]

6:39 I guess Japanese internment camps just weren’t a thing

[@sailnir6960]

They were a really sad thing in a horribly scary time. Understandable why they happened but shameful in hindsight.

[@hardcoore_gyt9254]

yeah i get what you’re talking about but internment camps didn’t economically hurt asians aa is rather controversial and i’m still split on the subject i get why it exists and all

[@sinyeedecleir8849]

@@hardcoore_gyt9254 how is it understandable? while some Japanese American citizens were possibly spys and should've been detained, other countries that had spys in the United states did not have people of their descent rounded up and detained in internment camps

[@BasedRanger]

@@hardcoore_gyt9254 Asian Americans were indeed systematically harmed for many years beyond the end of the internment camps. Look into the history of why most major cities have Chinatowns and such. Transcontinental railroads. Asian sundown towns.

[@justthatnerdyfashion]

@@BasedRanger The Asian community has been harmed but not in ways that hinder their access to higher education.

[@Laevetainne]

How about allowing students, regardless of race, in to the colleges/universities they qualify for.

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

Um they do as the video stated race is a factor among other factors but its illegal to be the deciding factor in college decisions

[@Laevetainne]

Rwaana Barnes you clearly missed the point.

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

@@Laevetainne oh cool explain how I missed in 1979 they got rid of quotas based on race 2003 schools werent allow to add points for just being a minority. So help me please?

[@Laevetainne]

Rwaana Barnes why are Asians mandated to score a higher SAT score than any other ethnicity to be allowed in certain colleges? Why are blacks struggling to perform well in colleges that have lowered admission standards for the sake of racial quotas?

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

@@Laevetainne There is no mandate. Every college has a minimum standard for every applicant. The debate is how to do choose which of the qualified applicants get admitted. An Asian kid may have a high Sat score but lower participation in social activities. A white kid may have a lower SAT score but be active in sports or seem more comfortable in interviews since most interviewers are white and have similar background. A poor minority may need a job for support and had lower Sat scores but good grades and was able to qualify despite certain disadvantages. How do you get diversity if you don't take all those factors into consideration? As far as your second question its ignorant to say blacks are struggling to perform since its just not true. And racial quotas have be illegal since 1979 and most schools have raised their admissions standards. So Im assuming you are just trollin but hopefully someone else will read and at least do their own research.

[@davidmendez8185]

Vox: "In an effort to fight past discrimination we employ present discrimination"

[@ProfessorEGadd]

'Past discrimination' meaning from before the applicant applied, not from the nebulous distant past. For black students currently applying to Harvard it is likely that their grandparents or great-grandparents were legally excluded from universities, good hospitals, good schools and good areas. Being poor, sick and uneducated begets more poverty, more sickness and less education. If you think that all disappeared magically 50 years ago then you're crazy.

[@quaxckz6738]

@@meginna8354 I'm irish ...all i have to say

[@cjmatzen3941]

Dustin Caso Nigerian Americans weren't affected by Jim Crowe, since it was abolished before immigration reform allowed immigration from Nigeria (and, for that matter, Africa as a whole). And redlining was banned in the later 70s, and given how many Nigerian americans are recent immigrants (1/3 came between 2000 and 2010), I doubt many were affected by that. This isn't to say Nigerian Americans aren't discriminated against, they absolutely are, but they didn't face the historical discrimination other African Americans did. FWIW, I also don't necessarily support Affirmative Action (its a confusing topic), I just disagreed with your conclusion here.

[@alfonstabz9741]

@@ProfessorEGadd "For black students currently applying to Harvard it is likely that their grandparents or great-grandparents were legally excluded from universities, good hospitals, good schools and good areas" So us immigrant asians. what is your complain?

[@christopherstein2024]

@@ProfessorEGadd A large minority of black students are immigrants whose grandparents or great-grandparents are not even from the USA and when you seek to help the poor, sick and uneducated it would be a lot smarter to ask people if they are poor, sick or uneducated then to use race as a placeholder for this wich of course also seems pretty racist.

[@benrogers5964]

what about affirmative action for the economically disadvantaged as opposed to people of different skin color?

[@DStepekGraphics]

Are you talking about grants/scholarships? Being economically disadvantaged doesn't make you deserve a position at a school more than someone else who has equal merit.

[@liz5473]

@@DStepekGraphics it means you had to work Harder though. You didn't have as easy access to the same resources

[@julienhector8652]

thats not affirmative action

[@fallen546]

@@DStepekGraphics It actually might. If two students have the same scores, but one has had private tutors their whole life and the other had nothing, I would definitely give the second one the seat. They seem to be better at learning.

[@hadleyshope4041]

@Alleyup1994USA same can be said for affirmative action. If you dont have the grades to get into an ivy league school, apply to another college or university. No need to reserve race based spots.

[@spacered949]

8:52 - causally calling conservatives racist at the end

[@MaxMustermann-hk2qs]

@@grumpoggo2636 that is very far fetched

[@8is]

@@grumpoggo2636 In this video, liberals are more racist than conservatives.

[@Dolly351]

Space Red they are. They want ivy schools all white again

[@8is]

@@Dolly351 With what conservatives are advocating, all good schools would be filled to the brim with Asians. The only reason they aren't now is because they are being discriminated against.

[@Dolly351]

ew of course they are. So as other minorities lol

[@ron9511]

Where's the affirmative action in the basketball, NBA?

[@hypsomuskrat3882]

Problem with that, is that very few people have an interest in going into the NBA.

[@chiansoranges6666]

Ron nba is based on skill and colleges should be to

[@TheOne_p]

Maybe black people should wear lead shoes in the nba and white people wear regular shoes and Asians wear spring shoes This is not serious

[@mburks3748]

Getting into the NBA is like winning the lottery. Thousands of people (yep including black people) don't even make it to be qualified for a position in the NBA.

[@mattiabinnoto8620]

@@chiansoranges6666 I mean where’s the skill in affirmative action? You get an SAT boost just by being a minority.

[@123steved]

Colour blindness is a conservative principle?! A sad statement for liberals 😪

[@zhuolixie5922]

Long term short, excessive liberalism, to the stage that other groups are disregarded.

[@barovierkevinallybose1040]

We wouldn't even be having this discussion if conservatives weren't known racist. You chose not to understand the point the video tried to make, don't blame anyone for your willful ignorance.

[@libertarianwhohatesdemsand5741]

@Joseph Delahunty it is true. Treat everyone equally. The government did the country a disservice making affermative action.

[@JiggyJones0]

@Joseph Delahunty Conservatives don't pretend race doesn't exist though. They just don't think race should matter.

[@lonewolf031]

It is cause they're not really liberals and are cultural Marxists.

[@chitchatcharlie]

The explanation in this video is extremely confusing and doesn't make anything any clearer. "We suck at talking about." You didn't solve it Vox!

[@sergiorr90]

Vox also sucks at talking about this

[@stacyagonzalez6654]

appelmoes Vox isn’t supposed to solve it. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@chitchatcharlie]

@@stacyagonzalez6654 Vox is a journalism medium that makes complicated topics easy to understand for the average person. They state in this video that we apparently suck talking about it, well, they didn't solve the issue of making a complicated topic more understandable.

[@freedoniaofficial1189]

@@chitchatcharlie Or they make simple topics complicated because they live in lefty fantasy land

[@hya2in8]

@@chitchatcharlie they did make it more understandable as well as they offered a pretty good defense of it

[@no-ml4yi]

Isnt giving advantages to certain people based on race when letting people into colleges (i.e African americans), by definition, racist?

[@morganatorricelli1413]

No because iNsTiTuTiOnAL pOWeR. Duh

[@ericmagne8287]

Yes

[@GAMEOVER-yy6zj]

No, sometimes you need reservations to make things right though it Seems Unfair. White Caucasians dominate most aspects of us education from STEM to literature. We already have an advantage over other races because our good history, we have4-5 generations literate in our family, but who just came out of slavery, their 1st generation require a boosted starting torque to compete with us. This sounds unfair but right thing to do.

[@morganatorricelli1413]

@@GAMEOVER-yy6zj and then there's Asians. No advantages, highest results

[@ulfrinn8783]

@@GAMEOVER-yy6zj caucasians dominate academia because theres like 250 million of us.. durr

[@leonardu6094]

"Let's keep racial discrimination because we don't like the fact that the people we want there don't make it on their own merit" This whole video is a joke.

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

it takes a lot of work for a poor kid to make it to college so you would judge him the same as a kid who had more resources?

[@gavy4306]

Rwaana Barnes but the thing is this plays in race not class

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

Gavmild b America hasnt really had big class issue similar to Europe or India but it does have a race issue because of slavery and a wealth issue because of capitalism. This was a fight to somewhat help offset some of those issues. Most colleges are majority white and the largest minority on most campuses are Asian. So Im not sure why the outrage against the few who literally give their lives for the opportunity for an education.

[@leonardu6094]

@@rwaanabarnes7166 Every country on earth that is not a failed socialist state has some wealth disparity. It's a normal thing. Slavery is also not unique to America, every group of people have practiced slavery since the beginning of time. America is no more guilty than others. Thirdly, what did you mean by "the few who give their lives for the opportunity of an education"?

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

leonard u Wealth disparity is not normal thing it is a negative thing that affects opportunity for people. Imported slavery is unique to America and was how America able to build and those descendants of slavery werent allow to participate in the wealth that was generated. So programs like Affirmative Action are needed to help ease the damage by caused by racism and slavery. It’s clearly not enough but why people who know history would deny the oppressed opportunity to better themselves is still puzzling

[@paulhuang2773]

There's no reason that Asian people need to be discriminated against to lift up other minorities.

[@jfuen3784]

@ Paul ur like really dumb...its a bigger picture thing u obviously dont understand. Now you're commenting and people are siding with u... it's kinda ridiculous

[@NeoShameMan]

That's so true even black people fight for Asian inclusion despite hurting their prospect.

[@Aweedproductions]

@@jfuen3784 so what's the bigger picture since you clearly understand it so well?

[@ethan3986]

More On Charvaka ahah now you’re being racist against whites

[@paulhuang2773]

SIKMUSE please explain this bigger picture. I’d love to hear it. My point is that Asians have not received more privileges than white people so why should they be penalized just for being Asian! There are certainly better ways of finding equality then to push other minorities down.

[@SoniaSephia]

Wait academic scores versus personal scores? Courage and kindness points!?🤣 Is this a Care Bears Episode?!?!🌈💖🐻💖🌈

[@rickrollrizal2364]

Soon. Social scores will have more weight than actual merits. Sounds familiar?

[@gabrielvitoria6665]

I dont care for the care bears.

[@morganatorricelli1413]

@Oligarch Destroyer wait, how is Facebook using personal scores? (legit don't know i don't use Facebook lol)

[@grumpoggo2636]

GalaxyEspeon Please don’t use emojis next time.

[@doujinflip]

Test scores alone don't make for a respectable human being. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should," and it sounds like the "personality" rating attempts to balance capability with judiciousness.

[@brokerbevo]

Why does this video mention "conservatives?" What does that have to do with race and affirmative action???

[@15270Marge]

Exactly. I am a proponent of equality, so according to Vox I must be a racist.

[@larrysal8866]

So...conservatives are...not rascist now? I thought it was the opposite last week hahahaha

[@akwatching]

Most Conservatives obviously don’t support affirmative action

[@karstenschoenberg9736]

a k that's because affirmative action really means that minorities expectations should be lower, and Vox leaves that out to try to say that conservatives are bad

[@akwatching]

Karsten Schoenberg No it’s recognizing the unfair disadvantages that minorities have because of lack of generational wealth and systematic oppression/racism. Wake up.

[@avaneeshnagre9846]

Cause I'm Asian I have to work twice as hard study twice as hard cry twice as hard go through twice as much academically then my black white or Hispanic counterparts. It should be based off, what wealth demographic you come from, your neighbourhood- how much your parents earn

[@metaslavegaming9075]

Does that mean we are twice as superior as those people? I'm not sure, the left nails that into my head every time I took the SATs and applied to colleges

[@hazardous458]

Andrew Wong And that’s what’s gonna cause an entire generation to grow up racist.

[@jack-ln9nu]

You’re wrong about the white part.-

[@robertcarson3116]

@@metaslavegaming9075 I am a liberal, and I am very against Affirmative action. I also talk about this with my Black peers, they have openly stated that they are against it too.

[@robertcarson3116]

@@jack-ln9nu White people are penalized, but not as much as Asians. So Asians, to a give a value to it, have to work 1.2 times as hard as White applicants.

[@yihe126]

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.” - Martin Luther King J

[@marciaosullivan3200]

@@assasination1100 does that make it right plus it makes more sense when blacks were actually oppressed

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

He was an advocate of affirmative action smh

[@phant1795]

Oh, so that's the justification for the personality test lol

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

@@phant1795 do you really think its a personality test lol you do realize all the applicants are qualified for admittance. Its about choosing the students colleges think will excel and also add a value to the campus. AA based on solely race or race quotas have unfortunately been illegal since 1979. I really wish bots would watch the video lol

[@znation2333]

@@rwaanabarnes7166 Unfortunately the important piece you’re forgetting however is that The qualifications based on Race varies and that’s the reason it’s a problem , Why should an Asian who scores 1300 on there SAT not get accepted into a school when A Black or Latino score 1050 and make it, Think of it this way, If you’re getting life saving surgery , do you want the most QUALIFIED doctor or the doctor who is there to meet a Racial Quota , What the argument is and if MLK was currently alive , rest in peace, and if he firmed believed It wasn’t bout their skin but their character , he’d believe YOU MUST WORK HARD TO MAKE YOUR DREAM

[@andrews3951]

0:45 Well, if it is about people in bad neighborhood who are low income, then why does it relate to race. Why can't affirmative action be about income and family background instead of making assumptions about those two things based on race? There are many better ways to give underprivileged people a leg up that don't use race as a defining eligibility factor.

[@nohbuddy1]

Black people tend to come from poorer households due to decades of racist policies such as red lining

[@andrews3951]

@@nohbuddy1 Tend to, but not always. Wouldn't a system purely based on income and social standing ALWAYS choose people who need an advantage?

[@nohbuddy1]

@@andrews3951 Tend to as in far more than whites, thus fewer blacks get in. A system based on social standing would mean only the privileged would get in

[@llamaliammm]

@@nohbuddy1 yea but "tend to" doesnt mean always and it erases any other races being underpriviledged, even whites, despite what americans go on abt white priviledge, id ont think it applys for everyone

[@llamaliammm]

Literally, sometimes america is so damn frustrating. Its like only blacks and whites exist and all other races are erased and when someone says that, history of slavery gets pulled in and pc culture demands agreement

[@pierdolio]

It's really interesting how VOX bends information to its own agenda.

[@mrblank-zh1xy]

They're brilliant at it. They are wholesale propagandists.

[@toottoot3410]

@@mrblank-zh1xy I wouldn't be surprised if they inspired North Korea's propaganda tactics. This propaganda would make even Goebbels blush.

[@8dholland]

Well I don't know what information got bent. Got to Pragger U. They deliberatly lie about things. But if they are bending, please share.

[@klausbauer2435]

@@8dholland Claiming that blacks are poor because of some distant past. Implying that whites are rich because 1% of them owned slaves 150 years ago etc.

[@JohnDavis-uc1ic]

@@klausbauer2435 1965 is not a distant pass. Your are willfully ignorant about the legislative policies that affected black families. How long ago was it a mob of white brutes beating and taunting black kids for trying to go to school? Plenty of footage available to view. How can a parent help their children with homework when they're illiterate due to no schools unavailable to black students? Much wealth is inherited. Like grandkids inheriting grandparents homes, cars, occupations etc. Slavery was an INDUSTRY.

[@bigpicture8541]

Asians do tend to work harder! Latinos didn’t experience Jim Crow either so how do you explain the difference? It’s culture whether we like to admit it or not

[@DarkTheFailure]

@@walkersmith2791 no its not? It all culture, genes got jackshit to do with it

[@silversnakeproductions3241]

What happened to "if you get good grades you get to go in."

[@betterdrugsthanyours]

The wrong minorities started getting in. 75% of the nba is black no need for diversity there and they’re all hard working super athletes. 8% of harvard students are asian? Get em outta here it couldn’t possibly be a result of work ethic and studying hard.

[@Honest_and_Truthful]

@@betterdrugsthanyours The primary victims of discrimination are white males. If college admissions were merit-based, the vast majority of students would be white males, regardless of the area of the country and school, like they used to be.

[@YurrahAlHadi]

@@Honest_and_Truthful Well not necessarily. He literally just said that Asian students were scoring higher on exame thn whites were. White males are the victims because the system is no longer catering to them.

[@LisaBeergutHolst]

The problem is that grades depend on a community's wealth, since US property taxes pay for schools, and better funded schools mean better grades on average. Then you have private tutors, more free time & money for educational activities, etc. Schools are set up to sort students by wealth, not ability.

[@silversnakeproductions3241]

@@LisaBeergutHolst I consider myself in a above average family in terms of wealth and i aint nothing special in terms of grade average

[@tulsikanodia8603]

I have never been this confused After watching a video explaining the thing I'm not supposed to be confused about.

[@s29nv1sr1]

Ted-Ed does a much better job with this kind of "random knowledge/how stuff works" content, although it's much less political.

[@Spunky.Streams]

Well that's because Affirmative-Action-IS-Racist. Martin Luther King wished for people not to be judged by the color of their skin, but the merit of their character. That means, neither positive, nor negative, should we judge by the color of ones skin. But for marketing purposes and big business- that doesn't help, they need their demographics.. so they eliminated Martin and rewrote his dream.. now (mostly) the left loves to remind you that you belong to one race or another. Then you have these outlets talking in circles to confuse you enough to give up and accept that people should be judged by the color of their skin.

[@samstromberg5593]

@@s29nv1sr1 I see a correlation here Now I now correlation DOES NOT equal causation but in this case I'd wager it is causatory

[@samstromberg5593]

@@s29nv1sr1 I see a correlation here Now I now correlation DOES NOT equal causation but in this case I'd wager it is causatory

[@alexb5367]

You can't fix the face at the finish, you need to give everyone a fair starting line. If someone is missing a shoe in a foot race, give them a shoe, instead of taking the shoes off everyone else.

[@mattiabinnoto8620]

I’ve got a hypothetical question for all that think that Affirmative Action doesn’t discriminate against Asians? If you were half black/Hispanic/native and you were half Asian. Would you apply as a black/Hispanic/native person or an Asian knowing that AA is in place? I know I would apply as an underrepresented minority.

[@jimkillerx]

These people that advocate for Affirmative Action will not answer your hypothetical truthfully. They’re willfully ignorant.

[@stephenmarket7237]

True brother.

[@lewisflowers5757]

It’s discriminates against non whites not just Asians

[@nunyadambusiness3530]

@@B_baldy wahwahwah

[@Victor-jv7ql]

@@nunyadambusiness3530 cries like a baby when faced with the truth 💀

[@saanhoolo]

Can somebody explain how information that follows the words “but this isn’t because Asian people work harder or care more about education” proves this statement?

[@UdoADHD]

He provides evidence that it is because they were the top of the top of their country to begin with, not because Asians do something special

[@PolarExplorerGuy]

IL He’s trying to say that since the immigration process was highly selective, the Asians we let in have generally been of a higher caliber than the general population. He can’t explicitly say that though because he’s a liberal and “all people are the same”

[@e.h.8936]

Positively Udo yeah immigration policy brought the best from east Asia and India in terms of technical ability, but brought the worst out of Middle East and Africa.

[@karepanman2770]

@@UdoADHD But that applies to their parents. The Asian students didn't already have higher education degrees. So the unspoken implication is that academic success gets passed down, whether as intelligence or values. And he rules out value, for some reason.

[@DirtyEdon]

@@e.h.8936 not at all because african immigrants are actually far more educated than black Americans and asians. The reason you don't believe that is because your society has define what it means to be black by black American culture NOT African culture. Most white Americans have *never* actually met an African, culturally they don't have much in common with black Americans in terms of language, food, and culture. For example a name like "Mr Washington" is considered a WHITE name in africa but in America it's considered a "black name". Whites in America have more in common with black Americans than black americans have with african. Skin colour doesn't mean same culture! African immigrants outperform Asians and are the most educated minority in America. www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/census-bureau-selected-sub-saharan-african-and-caribbean-ancestry-groups-making-their-mark-nigerians-outpace-us-educational-and-occupational-levels-300481357.html African immigrants have the highest rate of STEM degrees yubanet.com/usa/immigrants-from-africa-boast-higher-education-levels-than-overall-u-s-population/ Africans immigrants in Uk outperforming whites even those in poverty www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/18/its-no-surprise-that-white-working-class-boys-do-badly-at-school GO TO PAGE 12/40 Africans outperform CHINESE!!! and GO TO PAGE 19/40 to find out WHY!! www.lambeth.gov.uk/rsu/sites/lambeth.gov.uk.rsu/files/Raising_the_Achievement_of_Black_African_Pupils-Good_Practice_in_Schools_2013.pdf You're probably going to say it's because of "affirmative action" but Uk doesn't have affirmative action in its universities, plus black Carribean do worse than Africans yet they are both blacks. www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11987142/Ethnic-minorities-more-likely-to-go-to-university-than-white-working-class-British-children.html www.economist.com/news/britain/21689606-mainly-caribbean-community-has-become-mainly-african-oneand-poised-become-more

[@___i3ambi126]

I feel like trying to fix the problem at the college level is way too late. Let's fix the problems at the gradeschool level instead of asking colleges to fix an impossible problem.

[@basteagui]

how? by having transgenders read to them

[@___i3ambi126]

@@basteagui I havent rewatch the video, but going off memory: Detach school funding from local income. Grade school in poor counties should be just as good as grade school in rich counties. Apply affermative action grade school tutoring and test prep, rather than college admission. Expand policies that ensure poor students are just as set up to succeed as rich ones.

[@yootooberkev15]

Bingo, it’s because of minorities growing up in underprivileged towns/cities and not having the opportunities to excel starting at grade school. Fix that, and POC will have a better chance of acceptance.

[@RLICGNT]

Wishful thinking. People really don't realize how much that oppression is part of America's DNA. Without it, privileged groups wouldn't have the backs of others to stand on, and we would see them as they are: no more talented or gifted than anyone else.

[@seventhcompactor1505]

That's also impossible. The root cause is parenting. Some parents are just better

[@lapinlogic6267]

You don't "remedy discrimination" by... being Discriminatory. We remedied Discrimination by having equality Now. College has one purpose, Academic Education, not Kindness or hobbies, or engineered Diversity, stop stat boosting and start enacting equality and judging on the individuals merits.

[@8dholland]

Nope. The goal of college is to graduate and participate in the greatest of segregation, Social Structure. Can have fairness when the goal is to give yourself advantage over someone else.

[@8dholland]

@Alex Frideres Alex. Sadly this is a slight truism. Education has become a massively profitable business in the US. I believe if we end discrimination of all sorts, places like duke and Harvard will be a thing of the past as all schools will have really good students and Harvard can't charge what it charges. It will be like Oxford. Very affordable and nobody cares.

[@jghifiversveiws8729]

This is why equality is unhelpful as a political goal.

[@windycityweeb3843]

is it so hard to just take socio economic background into consideration instead of race?

[@alphahuner1116]

How would you set it up?

[@windycityweeb3843]

@@alphahuner1116 by finding out the socio economic conditions the student grew up in.

[@alphahuner1116]

@@windycityweeb3843 How would you find that out?

[@windycityweeb3843]

@@alphahuner1116 the same way we find out which kids get free lunches. Affirmative action is racist.

[@alphahuner1116]

@@windycityweeb3843 Household Income?

[@Zquirrelthing]

You failed to address why making the process colour blind would be a bad thing.

[@toxiccan175]

Duh! Then people couldn't be advantaged for being a minority, or disadvantaged for being a majority!

[@noahg4038]

Because schools and scores and economics aren’t color blind. Students of color are far less likely to live in wealthy communities due to previous discrimination == fewer sports, fewer extracurriculars, fewer APs == a lower chance at admissions. Also, it did around 8:00 +- 15 seconds

[@Zquirrelthing]

There are white people that live in impoverished communities and with just as bad circumstances as impoverished african americans. By capita, there are certainly more impoverished african americans, but that does not mean they're unique in their circumstances. Nothing is being done about the disadvantaged white people, and there is no reasonable argument against a system that can help those people too. And that part did not address the question. What that part claims is that "our society cannot be colour blind because or society is already colour blind", which is frankly just silly.

[@MrCrashDavi]

He said very clearly that conservatives wanted it.

[@nickpmc3181]

@@noahg4038 So use those factors, rather than race, to make decisions. To advantage a rich, privileged minority student with access to those sports, extra curriculars, and APs in the admissions process because they belong to a demographic that, on the whole, has fewer opportunities is ludicrous.

[@SnoozeTheRecluse]

It's a little bit passive agressive at the end

[@user-vv5by4zn2e]

so it seems

[@mrmanguylol9330]

Race should not be a factor in college, all humans should be treated equally!

[@rn6312]

If you think they are in the real world college or no college, you're really naive.

[@alfonstabz9741]

@@rn6312 I agree Asians are discriminated against black americans. this must be stopped.

[@jc8198]

Did you watch the video?? Race being a factor in college admissions IS championing equality. You can’t have an even playing field if a large portion of minority students don’t have access to the same opportunities as their white counterparts. Qualification’s absolutely matter; but qualifications shouldn’t be based on how much you did, but how much you did with respect to what you were given. Historically black and brown kids have not been given the same opportunities as white kids. This shows clear racial inequality and is something that still affects kids today. So it’s ignorant to say that race has no role in what a student is able to achieve by the end of high school. And even more ignorant to say that accounting for race in admissions is “unfair”. White students still make up the vast majority of elite student bodies. By eliminating race from discussion, they’ll ultimately be THE student body, not just a part of it.

[@sirbillthegreat8871]

@@jc8198it not fair for someone that work harder and earn higher score to be reject by someone that doesn’t work as hard that earns a lower score. Not everyone has the same education resources but your acting like it impossible to succeed. How can Asian earn the highest score despite not having the best resources?

[@mrmanguylol9330]

⁠@@jc8198While very true that African Americans have been discriminated in our society, with a near 20% poverty rate, shouldn’t it be based on experiences for everyone? Why should a poor Asian be denied from a school with better grades, and a rich African American be accepted simply because of affirmative action?

[@downsouth420]

Here’s a thought: why not leave out “Race” on the application altogether? Make the names anonymous to the admission department department as well so they can’t go by names that sound “black” or “Asian” or whatever. Simply provide them with the information they should go by, like grades and extracurricular activity. Nobody can claim racism, then, if race is impossible to determine.

[@rwaanabarnes7166]

because in every other aspect of life race seems to matter

[@Herb615]

Because you magically aren't going to find out someone's ethnic background by looking at their name.

[@Emmatriaaa]

@@Herb615 Like other comments suggest: leave out/censor all information that may imply the ethnic background of an applicant.

[@SuperAllears]

Applicants should be assigned a number. No names or other information that does not apply.

[@seventhcompactor1505]

@@rwaanabarnes7166 Not really

[@noahstout3288]

This is why on all my college apps I selected “decline to answer” what race or religion I was.

[@gooba93]

good for you

[@Pumbear]

@8:48 Why did you still insist on drawing the students as white? Isn't the whole point that more of them should be Asian?

[@leightontreharne9134]

@@chrstykim not when the whole point of the lawsuit is that Harvard is letting in a disproportionately small number of Asians

[@doujinflip]

No, they'll probably go even more aggressively "legacy" for the income and exclusivity. The Asians who would get in would be on student visas in a foreign passport.

[@correctionguy7632]

because vox has an image to push. They are trying to make the implication that the desire for meritocracy in college acceptance is actually just a dog whistle for racism when in practice the abolition of "personal scores" would allow in a lot more asians.

[@Pumbear]

@@chrstykim The point is that if they showed the disproportionate amount of Asians in that end clip, then their ending zinger trying to imply that conservatives are racist wouldn't have worked. In the same video they prove that without affirmative action Harvard would not be all white, but instead would have a disproportionate amount of Asians. But then they hide that fact in the closing bit just so they can frame people that disagree with them as racist.

[@herroyung857]

@@chrstykim You do realize that if Harvard no longer practices AA, its demographic would switch to something resembling Caltech's? Which has an Asian majority?

[@callspreadzero854]

Here's a revolutionary idea: accept the most talented.

[@air2091]

No

[@Eli-xj8hj]

@@air2091 why not dude you racist towards Asians?

[@ibbishahan2089]

@@Eli-xj8hj Because some white people are scared that Asians are going to take over the country (I am Asian btw)

[@mattiabinnoto8620]

@@ibbishahan2089 it’s literally inevitable that white people are going to become a minority (coming from a white person)

[@nothisispatrick5123]

got it let's start with the abolition of legacy admissions

[@furanrabbits]

Apparently playing bassoon is 1.5 times better than getting a good SAT score...😂😂 I’ll be at the music store if you’re looking for me!

[@jamesadams7319]

I am a half white half chinese. Affirmative action is wrong. However grading students by socio-economic status is also wrong. I came from a poor family but did well despite me having to score well above everyone else. Now since I started a business and now a family you wish to discriminate against my kids again??? No quotas, no socio-economic status selection, no affirmative action.

[@AlexisMaria]

Google is free honey.

[@rohitrai6187]

6:14 _but it isn't because asians work harder or care more about education._ err...you dismissed this in one sentence 7:45 equal protection clause was made to protect rights of any one who's rights to equal treatment were being undermined. _To protect Black people(more than others)_ is a strange implication Affirmative Action is contested because it discriminates against some people for discriminating favorably towards some people. A better tool would be programs which help increase their(the historically disadvantaged groups') eligibility. Affirmative Action not only discriminates against some groups, it also involves diluting of the standards of competence which the institutions use for everyone but those groups.

[@SuspiciousClams]

Rohit Rai As for the first point, he dismissed *and then provided his reasoning*. He was saying that asians do not work harder just because they are asian, but because the US explicitly chose successful and well-educated asians to be able to come into America. And as for the second, as, again, said in the video, it’s *not about* treating any one race better than another; it’s about making up for past mistreatment of one race, because that mistreatment had an ongoing societal effect. If black people had a higher average standard of living, if black people had higher average education, *THEN* treating races differently wouldn’t had to be done. But as things are, they do, so that, in terms of actual power in our society rather than whether anyone is treated differently, everyone *IS* equal.

[@rchshi]

@@SuspiciousClams We don't make higher grades because of policies 80 years ago. We Asians get better grades and test scores because we simply work harder, its part of Asian culture. Back then, yes, the US was very selective on whom they allowed in, but now anyone can immigrate to the US.

[@JChang0114]

@@SuspiciousClams Care to address the education culture in Japan or Korea?

[@SuspiciousClams]

not asian Due to the culture created by those policies. For an analogy, humans don’t have to worry about starvation for the most part, but we still feel hunger. The policies obviously don’t affect us now, but they created an environment that does.

[@danielcobia7818]

According to a New York Times article "Affirmative Action" has actually hurt the "Black and Hispanic" demographics collage attendance.

[@jumpinjehosephat1877]

How difficult is it to remove all identifying information from the applications before sending them to the panel? No names, no race, change "President of African American Student Organization" to "President of Cultural Student Organization", etc. Have a separate panel score the essay portions and just provide the scores to the ultimate decision panel.

[@blackswan7279]

This is the best method cause it’s shown when company’s adopted this method it gave more ppl a shot and more minorities were hired

[@eklectiktoni]

That's not a bad idea actually.

[@poptasticanimation55]

Keep it as anonymous as possible so racist wont practice biases looking at names or color

[@bryanb2653]

I fear that then you’ll anonymously just pick all the people that come from best neighborhoods because those resources they accepted or had acces to will reflect in the admissions and do we need to go through to the history on that? You can be a genius but when all the good connections, the people, the community are purchased elsewhere it won’t really matter.. Back to square 1.

[@editorrbr2107]

@@bryanb2653 but that is not what is happening. We know from the business world that when evaluating candidates blindly, more minorities get hired. It’s almost like Affirmative Action pushes mediocrity to the top - forget discrimination against others, it is actually punishing other deserving minority applicants.

[@danielblack4190]

Colorblindness is exactly what MLK Jr. advocated for. If you listen to what he actually said on TV, he said that black people should be treated the same as whites, not preferentially. I don't know why conservatives aren't using this argument, because it's a really good one, but really, come on

[@TealJosh]

Ah that colorblind message from the "I have a dream" speech. And then there were the rest of his speeches that were very color aware and race conious.

[@FridgeOper8tor]

Affirmative action should be about CLASS, not about race. Inevitably, due to the fact that minorities are often poorer, it would also tie in indirectly with race. Nevertheless, it would be more central to the very point of affirmative action: to give people who've grown up in disadvantageous situations, but that nonetheless shows the aptitude to become a good student (Ivy level or other), to be admitted (in order to hopefully lift these qualified individuals -and by extension, families, and communities outside of poverty). What point is there to give an African-American applicant preferential treatment if his family is already well-off, if the whole point of this is to undo the (negative) results of past history? tl;dr - Class should be the main deciding factor for any preferential admission. If the individual is academically within the means of the institution, then the applicant's family income should be the decider on whether or not someone is preferentially admitted.

[@halithegreat3240]

How would one fully determine class from a simple income statement. There are so many factors that contribute to socioeconomic class, that it becomes extremely hard to discern something solid.

[@MrCrashDavi]

​@@halithegreat3240 Do you (your parents) own a business and sell things. ( )Yes ( )No Are you (your parents) an employee? ( )Yes ( )No Do you (your parents) work for the government ( )Yes ( )No There.

[@alaaye5237]

CrashDavi You oversimplified it.

[@zurzakne-etra7069]

@@halithegreat3240 income is a very good indicator, school districts are pretty good ones too... Economists have spent a lot of time and can defo point exactly to these indicators. To pretend that class indicators don't exist is so mean spirited imo

[@floyd8117]

Can you guys make a video about the nobel peace price winners? Their cause of seeking justice for war rape victims is incredibly important.

[@whhe11]

@@ButtMash1 Its us foreign policy, one man can't really overturn the entire status quo and eliminate the entire military industrial complex. Hell he could barely pass his version of regan's free market healthcare bs with how far right the GOP had moved.

[@AvgJane19]

+

[@Blackhandpro]

@@delta8868 such a boring and overused comment. Obama was given the award because of his efforts to steer the world towards nuclear disarmament. Something that, when the award was given, looked like a possibility thanks to his summit in 2009. Stop spreading false statements.

[@drill6739]

Hannes Oscarsson are you enabling torturing, and bombing when out of wartime lol

[@drill6739]

Butt Mash LMFAO

[@PeterDivine]

Don't mind me, just came by to thumb down

[@rchshi]

My man👍

[@davidmurray2964]

As a left leaning individual, that was poorly explained

[@3000bigrandy]

because affirmative action is racist

[@HHSRHOKAPPA]

@@3000bigrandy yep

[@chadzahirshah2588]

You can’t explain away something that’s extremely racist without making up your own definition for it.

[@Sinlka]

Although I think this video is very well made and informative it suffers from Vox's number 1 flaw, boogeymanning conservatives. That ending in particular, saying that conservatives all dream of a purely white Harvard? That's obscenely stupid to say and it makes YOU as Vox look bad, also giving critics of your point of view a very easy way of dismissing what you've said in the earlier parts of the video.

[@ireneuszpyc6684]

the left, like Vox, consider themselves morally superior: anyone who disagrees with them is some sort of boogeyman/witch/evil spirit (Conservatives just happen to disagree with them)

[@nt2122]

@@ireneuszpyc6684 No offense EVERYONE considers themselves morally superior. If someone claims they're not, they are either a criminal, or someone bullshitting to your face.

[@ErdTirdMans]

@@nt2122 No, not everyone. Of course everyone thinks they're /right/ or they wouldn't think the things they think. That doesn't mean that they castigate everyone else as suffering from moral failings or intellectual shortcomings. People prioritize different things and have biases that color their perspectives. The serious thinkers of the world do their best to ferret out these biases, but well recognize that while they've made a determination right now based on all of the information they have and with real effort to counter their biases, tomorrow they could acquire new info or recognize some priming or axiomatic thinking that led them to a wrong conclusion. And just because the guy on the other side hasn't done this doesn't make them stupid or evil. It probably just means they're busy making the same sincere effort in other areas and topics, operate from different axioms, or have different information. "Guy from the other side, please talk to me," they say, "I want that information and I want to analyze my bias by understanding yours!" I will assume that based on your "everyone" that you do not operate this way. Please, give it a try. If nothing else, it's a much more positive and happier way to engage, and I would argue that it leads to more accurate conclusions.

[@billiecruz4399]

@@ErdTirdMans you just castigated him for intellectual short comings. Also you are talking to him with obvious moral superiority. Projection at its finest.

[@ussocom3644]

Wibbix Leftist propaganda trash, don't bother.

[@FrankieHernandez107]

Why do these animation figures appear to be wearing Starfleet uniform colors?!

[@kendomyers]

CPT Kirk trying to get into college

[@Ashkanman]

Spock sues the USS Enterprise

[@kendomyers]

@@Ashkanman Spock was a diversity hire

[@desu38]

violet?

[@kendomyers]

@@desu38 Didnt Mace Windu use Violet in the Star Trek movie? He was played by Laurence Fishburne.

[@pikaso6586]

As long as your profile (name, photo, address) is available to your examiner, you CANNOT argue that they will not use it for selection. If a fair system is the goal, with people assessed only "based on their performance" - WHY NOT PROMOTE ANONYMITY?

[@aarshpatel2000]

I as an Asian feel like the 80 hour work weeks I have been putting into school, jobs, extracurriculars, and many other activities that I actually enjoy and are productive this infuriated a large group of my school by this form of "justice" that is quite the contrary, my parents came here with less than the minorities that are favored into colleges and have grasped on to middle class society, we have experienced the same struggles in our lifetimes as other minority groups and the fact that my parents and I have decided to go above and beyond should positively affect the decision of my future. Instead of joining my Mexican friend at johns Hopkins, my Indian friend and I will have to go to a school that isn't "racist" against Asians. Liberals are trying to get rid of racisim by being racist to a group of people. I have an idea why don't we just use a 25 year history of income and use that to show the true person that gets admitted

[@leogao6929]

I think the college sees Asians are too advantaged, because Asians have a good life in general already. So they are trying to balance it out. But I think the only good way to do this is cancel all legacy students, just split into 30/30/30 quotas for Asians, Whites, Blacks

[@aarshpatel2000]

@@leogao6929 wow kudos to replying after 4 years, ironic that some of those less qualified friends underperformed in undergrad compared to my Indian classmates and that affected their prospects. My grandparents generation were slaughtered, starved, and subjugated. As Asians we don’t have the privilege of feeling sorry for ourselves if we did we would’ve starved. Here’s an idea why don’t we consider who’s more qualified for school just like we do for employment? In that case it’s a good idea to emigrate to a meritocratic country instead of a tinpot racist society where people try to compete at how disadvantaged their ancestors and blaming their shortcomings on that while getting every opportunity and parachute instead of their repeatedly poor and myopic decisions making.

[@zurzakne-etra7069]

tbh tho, the removal of affirmative action will probably further reduce the number of Asian kids in ivy league schools, because now they have an opportunity to enroll more white people

[@cameronrhodes7390]

@@leogao6929 or just I have the race for college application not there so that race can’t be a factor at all make the whole field balanced

[@Brandon-ms2uc]

Give advantage based on poverty level income, not race or gender.

[@ProfessorEGadd]

The real reason Americans suck at talking about affirmative action: Americans pretend that classism and wealth disparity doesn't exist.

[@shadowmaydawn]

@@ProfessorEGadd And Americans also pretend that race and gender disparity doesn't exist as well.

[@imscared6]

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." I guess asking not t judge his children on their skin color made MLK a raging conservative, right?

[@TomikaKelly]

I mean, he was murdered anyway REGARDLESS of his beliefs, so can we really say that his beliefs benefited him?

[@stevenyd644]

Given two individuals of equal academic standing, if one person comes from a wealthy suburban black family and the other from a poor rural white family, could you really say with a straight face that the first person is more disadvantaged than the second? So filling your school with rich elites of all races counts as diversity I guess.

[@iamthinking2252_]

Eh, other acceptance criteria could still favour the poorer person

[@cryptarisprotocol1872]

@@iamthinking2252_ Poor people never outdo rich people, the rich person has something that the poor person doesn’t. MONEY and connections to put himself in a more favourable position of being picked which multiple universities were investigated and sued for awhile ago in the late 2010s because they allowed a slew of wealthy people in by those wealthy people using their money and connections. If you are wealthy you will have connections, no one ever became wealthy without a massive network of connections they can pull from. People like conducting these mythical scenarios but fact is poor white boy from Alabama has neither the connections or money to hire a lawyer or influence himself to better be accepted than a wealthy Black New Yorker living in a million dollar penthouse whose parents have multiple connections to alumni’s, lawyers, business owners, possibly even political leaders.

[@BunnyRaptor]

2 generations my father was the first Vietnamese to go to Harvard, 1964. He fought for civil rights and end to the Vietnam war. He as authored books noted to be staples of understanding Vietnamese history. I doubt he would have been accepted today, as an international student.

[@zurzakne-etra7069]

if he were a rich international student maybe... many still get in

[@Freef00d123]

Your race doesn't make you disadvantaged, your economic standing does. And racial discrimination did cause higher concentration of poverty amongst certain races, but rectifying that with race based policies doesn't benefit the members of that race who are still negatively impacted from those past policies, it benefits rich blacks who can get a good education AND be preferentially treated by college admissions

[@Freef00d123]

@Nicholas Lee yea you missed the point of my comment. I don't think admissions should factor in race at all. The economic status of their parents should be a factor but not race. I wasnt arguing against the Asians argument, I was arguing with the whole idea of race based treatment in general.

[@jghifiversveiws8729]

@Nicholas Lee Citation needed

[@davidmelgar1197]

The core issue is that even the most nuanced AA program is ultimately a band-aid solution; we need to tackle the massive financial and educational inequities across race, from segregation to home ownership to unfair treatment

[@bigz4302]

Could've fairly represented the other side instead of cherry picking it...

[@ft.jackjimmy7282]

Vox forget to mention how Asian kids still have a harder time getting a job compared to white kids even if they're college-educated.

[@hiimryan2388]

Why can't we instead of race help just the poor? We can just use tax money to help

[@TheAllAmericanHoneyBadger]

Why should Taxpayers have to give up 50% of their income to help the poor?

[@ocmetals4675]

Funny, this video only convinced me that maybe affirmative action needed to happen at the time, but it's time to look for a better way.

[@YakuiMeido]

I was just thinking that. I mean if Harvard really becomes all White and Asian after we cease affirmative action, doesn't that mean affirmative action didn't work?

[@aolson1111]

@@YakuiMeido Uh, what? That means it does work.

[@tli55w]

@@aolson1111 it would mean that generations of affirmative action didnt increase the academic performance of the races it intended for and only hid the racial inequality rather than solve it, which is true.

[@henrytep8884]

We always should look for a better way, and affirmative action is a double edge sword that can reward laziness especially for those who rely on it rather than their own merit to make it in life.

[@pendejo6466]

Any preference based on race--for better or for worse--is racism. Leave the "victims" behind if they insist past grievances.

[@bradleyhouse3180]

Content of character, work ethic, and dedication not color of skin.

[@yasseressa1696]

liberals: let's discriminate on the basis of race

[@petermaclauren2788]

I'm a liberal and I HATE affirmative action. This isn't a left/right issue.

[@MrChad69420]

how can you measure someone's kindness. messed up

[@haroldhamburgler]

8:50 Wow, apparently there were a lot of Asians at Harvard "two generations ago."

[@UnaLost]

Diversify the thoughts, ideas, personalities, and skills of your student group, not the color of skin.

[@not.a.robott]

I'd be way more sympathetic if the people who say that don't deny systemic issues at large and then push racist ideas (Lauren Southern as a dead example). Otherwise as an actual comeback, I'd hate to have diversity of thought if that means bad ideas are common. We ought to promote the best ideas, not diversify them.

[@edwinolio]

@@not.a.robott Then who are you to define what's a bad idea? It's neccesary to engage in conversarion to deliberate about ideas. Some things are counter intuitive, we can't rely on the standard of one person's "common sense".

[@Junior-nt5nr]

ben ben You literally contradicted yourself You say you want diversity, but only for ideas you agree with. That is the opposite of diversity.

[@not.a.robott]

@@edwinolio Um you sound like an undergrad. Yeah we talk about things in depth but some things we don't really tolerate because they're objectively false and wrong, like racism.

[@not.a.robott]

@@edwinolio And immoral

[@chickennuggets3484]

I may be a conservative but I just want the most educated to go to college

[@nunya6579]

I hope all those against affirmative action are also against legacy admissions.

[@stsk7]

What's that? If it is illogical like affirmative action, they probably are

[@jghifiversveiws8729]

@@stsk7 You can't say that if you don't even know what it is

[@marciaosullivan3200]

We are and so what

[@easysnake205]

It seems to me most of the arguments that favour race-based affirmative action use arguments based on economics. Eg. They argued that black people are from poor neighbourhoods and Thus go to less funded schools. Why not simply make affirmative action economics based? The fancy private school the Obama daughters go to is far better than the school a white kid growing up in a trailer park goes to. Just because they are black they shouldn’t have easier admissions to any university because they were not faced with any of the disadvantages that is the basis of arguments for affirmative-action. By simply making affirmative action based on economics and setting it to favour poor people, You can still help all of the poor black kids that are legitimately disadvantaged

[@Mrrogersbestneighbo]

+EasySnake That is probably the best argument I've ever heard made on this issue. It would solve another issue, which is admissions by inheritance. Which is essentially Affirmative Action for wealthy families who've attended a college for generations. We should be seeking policies that increase social mobility, not encouraging systems that have overt obstacles in place against it. With a system like what you argued for, I can't think of a convincing argument against it, unlike Affirmative Action which is often viewed as inherently racist (I know it's not. But making an argument that it's not takes much longer than a soundbite or a talking point and therefore is hard to communicate to people effectively. And Affirmative Action often results in actual instances of racism since it is inherently based on race, which only feeds the narrative of those opposed to it.).

[@zhuolixie5922]

Yes. Again, any form of direct race-based boosting/discrimination, it sound to me that it’s a discrimination to Asian and white, and making Black, Latino and Native Americans are boosted because they are inferior or something of such.

[@barovierkevinallybose1040]

You are arguing two different issues here. Legacy and Affirmative action. Who said Obama's daugters benefited from affirmative action. That's your first mistake, stereotyping black people. 1/3 of Harvard acceptance was based on legacy in 2019. Noneone is questioning that. But let's question the place of the poor black child who didn't have access to the best test prep, piano lessons and mommy and daddy support.

[@hernandayolearyallda]

No, because it presumes all poor is the same. A poor white stil has 100x the wealth of a median black, yet, you'd put them on equal footing in your measure which would be massively disadvantageous to even median blacks never mind poor ones. Plus poor whites do not have the systematic racist discrimination that even middle income blacks do. Who knows what their grades were, no way to know if they got affirmative action or not, also they are legacies.

[@viperking6573]

Why a college should have a 'diverse' group of students, why should we even use 'race', whatever that means, to determine who can enter a college?

[@guyplessier7935]

Affirmative action is positive discrimination which is discrimination. Just say it as it is rather than use sugarcoating. You know your lying, we know you lying, you know that we know you are lying and we know that you know etc,

[@DK-hn8ye]

Vox's entire argument can be distilled to: present discrimination is acceptable so long as it works against minorities who are perceived to be better off (East Asians). i.e. black people and black people only have suffered a special type of hurt and so they deserve a special type of benefit in, of all places, college admissions. Work harder.

[@osamayasien9634]

VOX: Conservative Bad

[@angelic8632002]

You know a culture still has a long way to go when its obsessed by the color of your skin, instead of your cultural and economic background.

[@flamingpaper7751]

The need to have affirmative action means that there are differences between people based on race

[@alfonstabz9741]

difference not inferiority. the standard in college does not disadvantage any race they can compete the same.

[@SamSamSamSameSamSamSam]

No hard data. "Let's fix racism with racism" - Vox 2019

[@ndv135]

If there is an issue with disenfranchised people why would you not be looking at class instead of race, since class and economics are the real issue.

[@justinveimau8561]

Yes! Somebody gets it! The system right now isn't set up to be racist, it just looks that way because of the years of oppression and whatnot have put minorities at an economic disadvantage.

[@monasharma2022]

Because then conservatives and white Americans will have to come to terms with wealth inequality in this country 😩😩😩 and they can only have “fair laws” one way

[@jpb2366]

@@monasharma2022 what a childish view of reality

[@morrishakim1118]

I hate to say it but then we would be having the same conversation about wealth inequality- “how come I can’t get in because I come from a wealthy background etc” unfortunately there will always be someone unhappy in these exclusive schools

[@ronitshah9279]

sure some would be unhappy, but some people are always unhappy, but I can assure you it would get much much more support overall@@morrishakim1118

[@it_was_my_cat]

I think we're tackling the issue incorrectly. We need to get a grip and solve the issue of racist discrimination/ privilege from the ground up instead of trying to make up for it with controversial solutions like affirmative action.

[@axidhaus]

It is ironic the same government that enforced slavery is now going to enforce multiculturalism and I love how this guy acts like it was some sort of white supremacy plot to keep groups out

[@Bubbamacomb]

It’s gone now.

[@Spyblox007]

I'd argue for affirmative action based on average income/wealth. Only 1% of admitted students should be among the top 1%.

[@fbaallied]

No

[@Mariostern1]

Affirmative Action seems to me just like another basis for discrimination. "Oh, this guy is a medicine student? Let's see if he's just here because of A. A. or not."

[@Raptorftw]

6:14 "This isn't because Asians work harder or care more about education". Based on what is this claim true? This is just another attempt to deny reality that different people value different things. It is very widely recognized that Asians prioritize education and are incredibly hard working. Asian parents expect their kids to study hard and to be successful in life, otherwise they're deemed a failure. This is why they're very successful in America. Same goes for Jews. All races on average do not value the same things in America. Whites, blacks, Asians, Jews all value different things. For example Asians do not really value sports at all, meanwhile blacks do value sports a lot. This is why you'll see many black people playing basketball after school, meanwhile you won't see any Asians and this is why blacks are very successful in sports.

[@paynefanbro]

Wow, you made hasty generalizations about several groups of people in one comment. Some might call that prejudice. As a Black person, my family never valued sports over education and to assume that's the case for Black people is a whole is extremely offensive.

[@xephios99]

Bryce Council indeed, I'm south Asian and I succeed in studies not because I'm forced to, i just love studying and learning more than what is "needed". I was almost never forced by parents to do well in school. They just told me to do well enough to be happy and that's what i did.

[@adamtak3128]

Nigerian and other African immigrants would like to have a word with you... They are just as highly educated and academic seeking as Asians...

[@teawithmochi]

Asians not playing sport???? Nah we do play sports lol.

[@GoErikTheRed]

You didn't watch the whole video, did you? Asians don't work harder or care more about education, rich people do. And for a long time (still the case today but less drastically), the only Asians able to come to the US were rich. If you look at for example African Americans whose parents have the same education level and income as the average among Asian Americans, then you see similar levels of college attendance.

[@itsrhoda7757]

Most of y’all really missed the end of the video .

[@kingace6186]

Affirmative action is not about equality. It's about equity. That's the heart of this issue. Too few Americans under the difference between equal treatment and equitable balances.

[@samhemas8863]

We must judge people based on their quality in academics, not their skin. Things like affirmative action don’t help the countries at all, they just divide people.

[@axidhaus]

Affirmative Action proves that even with the lower standards certain groups still are unable to rise to that lower expectations....

[@zurzakne-etra7069]

or income... poor white people exist too

[@aapkefather1872]

In India. we have minimum 49.5% of university seats reserved in the name of "affirmative action ". And that really sucks!.

[@seventhcompactor1505]

And all of those institutions are horrid. You can't have quality, and reservations

[@cinema6444]

Congratulations the main opposation party just promised to break the 50% cap now more than 50% seats will be reserved. we done doomed.

[@kalistaredacted2808]

Affirmative action should ideally be primarily based off of socioeconomic status. Although systemic racism and oppression are problems, they are dwarfed by socioeconomic equality and advantages based on wealth. In terms of having advantages, rich white student > rich black student >>>>> poor white student > poor black student.