What were they thinking? - Weird 90s Controllers

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You know, maybe mouse and keyboard isn't the best way to game. Perhaps we've got it all wrong. Well, that's what Thrustmaster and Microsoft thought, so they made these atrocities.
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MUSIC CREDIT
---------------------------------------------------
Intro: Laszlo - Supernova
Video Link: • [Electro] - Laszlo - S...
iTunes Download Link: itunes.apple.com/us/album/sup...
Artist Link: / laszlomusic
Outro: Approaching Nirvana - Sugar High
Video Link: • Sugar High - Approachi...
Listen on Spotify: spoti.fi/UxWkUw
Artist Link: / approachingnirvana
Intro animation by MBarek Abdelwassaa / mbarek_abdel
Monitor And Keyboard by vadimmihalkevich / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/PgGWp
Mechanical RGB Keyboard by BigBrotherECE / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/mj6pHk4
Mouse Gamer free Model By Oscar Creativo / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/Ps3XfE
CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
1:40 FragMaster Unboxing
5:08 Anthony's computer
5:32 FragMaster Setup
6:35 Playing Half-Life Day One
9:00 It actually works now
9:41 Sidewinder Dual Strike
11:21 Dual Strike Setup
12:30 Playing with the Dual Strike
14:58 Outro

[@TheSmilingFear]

"If I bought this I would return it immediately" Who's going to let him know that he paid for this one?

[@ThBlueSalamander]

69 likes xd

[@pandemicneetbux2110]

"because we all know gamers play in button up shirts" I mean, but I unironically do though :/ Well I mean it's that or a wife beater and pajamas, but, like I guess maybe not in the 90s as much that's more 14yos in tshirts but is it really that abnormal to be gaming in a button up shirt?

[@jordanbowen2298]

@@pandemicneetbux2110 Yes. Yes it is.

[@pandemicneetbux2110]

@@jordanbowen2298 Well I'm in a wife beater and pajamas right now. Is that more appropriate?))

[@jordanbowen2298]

@@pandemicneetbux2110 Oh most definitely. I feel extremely relieved. I thought the universe felt...lighter today.😂

[@GeorgeDolbier]

OMG. I worked on teh FragMaster! I was an engineer at Thrustmaster when the Frag Master was handed down from on high... All of engineering and support knew that thing was a garbage idea from get go, but we where commanded to make it happen. Oh the stories... we actually had to create the plastic moulds before we could any play testing or validation... The Daisy Chain dongle... You daisy chained the frag master with RUDDER PEDALS. (I made all the animations and UI, yes it centers when you plug it in, the time before USB and ubiquitous microcontrollers.).

[@TatsuZZmage]

that is a scammer DO not talk to it

[@-solus-]

@@TatsuZZmage did you talk to it?

[@scorpion07070]

@@theayatollahofrockandrolla I worked on a Honda assembly line for half a year. What's your seed phrase?

[@jorgebustillos8469]

No thanks

[@BenCos2018]

@@theayatollahofrockandrolla I worked on computers as a hobby for a few years give me your wallet id so I can return any money you stole from people

[@rodefshalom]

“Explore the packaging before you get inside” is also really good dating advice.

[@Talia.777]

😆😆

[@Six_Gorillion]

Ye these day you gotta stick your hand in the package to make sure there's no joystick there.

[@GSBarlev]

13:45 I know that it's just USB p'n'p doing what it does that it's recognized on modern Windows immediately, but I like to think that there's one Microsoft employee, likely a Lead Software Engineer his mid '50s, who every update carefully unwraps his well-loved Sidewinder (and Trackball Explorer to boot) and ensures that everything functions correctly. And then in their off-time, I imagine this unsung hero regularly communicating with some college buddies who take care of keeping the driver--by which I mean the very real "linux/drivers/Input/joystick/sidewinder.c"--up to date in the Linux kernel.

[@kitsunekaze93]

that is surprisingly wholesome

[@magneticflux-]

Vojtech Pavlik is doing (or did in 1998) god's work on the kernel lmao

[@TheExileFox]

At the same time, a different controller was sold by Microsoft and it was rigid instead of flexible. It was pretty good actually. It even offered a type of scroll wheel. But the 3d gyroscope feature was just really awkward to use

[@gunnargu]

sidewinder.c just got a patch to it on july 6th 2021...

[@RadioactiveBlueberry]

@@gunnargu Holy smokes I thought this was a joke but then I googled it

[@jorjorwell123]

I love how like all the esoteric / ergonomic devices have their own special intro, it’s always very creative!

[@kongkiatrittideche7864]

Yep

[@JasminUwU]

this is anti-ergonomic

[@intelchip_x86]

how the heck do you have a thousand likes in just 16 HOURS!?

[@Korvmannen]

The power glove had a whole movie

[@mietek958]

I think all Adam's videos have weird/special intros, he talked about it in his floatplane interview

[@proxy1035]

fun fact, "circle strafing" is still a commonly used term in the classic DOOM community. basically if you have a big ass arena with lots of monsters, you can usually just run in a circle (or horseshoe shape in case there isn't enough room) and they will pretty much never be able to surround you.

[@jayhill2193]

neat to know the term of what I've been intuitively doing all the time

[@asmrbruhhh]

Fun fact: circle strafing was renamed by the COD zombies community and called training

[@herrmatthias4662]

"circle strafing" is also a term used in the Star Citizen community, having full access to 6 degrees of freedom analog axis is helping a lot in performing it to the limit

[@TatsuZZmage]

@@herrmatthias4662 I miss 6 axis freedom in warframe archwing

[@aether6293]

@@asmrbruhhh ahh the days of making big ol' trains on Kino der toten or der riese

[@milkman1026]

That sidewinder controller was something they’d use in an 80’s hacker movie about life in 2007.

[@LiarNobody]

Sexy Woman, "You can't hack the corporations server! No one can navigate around their firewalls fast enough!" Hacker Guy opens a metal suitcase, and as blue smoke rises, he holds up the Sidewinder. *knowing smirk at the camera*

[@JammyBriton]

I want to see the results of Anthony practising with the Fragmaster for a week in Quake or something. Maybe an old controller face off

[@nprwikeepa6082]

Facts Anthony took both of these home

[@brutalhonesty07]

Emily I think. Unless they’re referring to a new individual.

[@samuelberton3778]

Riley laughing manically is my biggest nightmare (or dream 🤔)

[@bountoj]

Sounded like my sleep paralysis demon. = )

[@917DeviL]

bahahaha lmfao :D :P \m/

[@jorgebustillos8469]

Why not both?

[@Cheesesalad]

He sounded like the joker for a second. Haunting... ly beautiful.

[@OfSheikah]

Y'all just made me get to realize the potential Riley has in his acting department Linus might generate some big tech corpo sided statements, but him willing to be laughed at for the intro is something of Linus that still says 'I am the friendly tech tip man'

[@ChumpVice]

Why is this not listed under subscriptions? Edit: oh, it's listed under LTT subscriptions, but not my general feed of subscriptions. Is that because LTT has posted to many videos/shorts at once?

[@Cheesesalad]

I used the Sidewinder dualstrike all the time as a kid/teen. And to be honest, when you get the hang of it, it's shockingly effective. But having to always hold it up in the air was very annoying and fatiguing. Very interesting remnants of a time where companies actually tried to create something innovative, compared to today where nothing changes except maybe the scuff style back pedals and more recently the adaptive triggers on the dualsense controller. 90s gaming peripherals where wild! I have my sidewinder still lying around in my box of many computer things.

[@persechini]

The frak? This video didn't show in my subscriptions tab, had to find out on KZbin home

[@liuhc]

This is not in my subscription feed somehow, only found after digging into your account after wondering about the delay.

[@liuhc]

The comment under this claiming prize is obviously scammer, don't fall for it people.

[@colinmartin9797]

I still have my sidewinder dual strike. It is hands-down one of the best mech and tank controllers ever. Still to this day, I will pull it out and fire up Mechwarrior 4 and mechwarrior 5 because NOTHING else plays it as well. Not mouse and keyboard, not joystick, nothing. For slow, deliberate controlling games with purposely imprecise aiming, it just vibes with them SO well. And games like elite:dangerous as well, the fact that it has a shift button lets you add SO many functions that you just can't do with a modern gamepad. Also just throwing it out there that I've had a dual strike for over 20 years and it's still working like new. In slower paced FPS games like Half Life (they demo'd it for that originally) it was genuinely fun too. I legit wouldn't mind seeing a return of that design but with dual thumbsticks as well. It might be insane.

[@omegahunter7147]

Still got my one in a box too, Microsoft knew how to buy hardware to last back then.

[@TheMetroidblade]

I mean i was watching him use it and i was like i could see some some games this would work really well with. actually kind of a success with this one

[@yeti4269]

Does it not fair well with games like War Thunder?

[@natejgee]

I've still got my M$ strategic commander somewhere.....

[@AbbStar1989]

THIS is what I like to hear (read?).

[@EK-rp8ns]

I like how Adam is quietly trying to keep all of the packing material and content intact while Linus is unboxing 🤣

[@mircoh.8367]

Next thing you know Linus complains why the motherboard isn't packed up right :D

[@WarpRulez]

When you think about it, it's rather incredible that a random control layout from some Nintendo handheld LCD game from the early 80's has persisted to this day as the standard controller layout, just with some added buttons. Besides ergonomics, the only major innovation has been the addition of thumbsticks, but otherwise it's essentially the same. (It might be debatable what the origin of the modern controller layout can be ultimately traced to, but as far as I know Nintendo was pretty much the first to come up with the now-ubiquitous D-pad design (used with the left thumb) for some of their Game&Watch LCD games, and some buttons for the right thumb, a design which they carried over to the NES controller, from which it became pretty much ubiquitous, and has essentially remained unchanged in the most modern controllers.)

[@Appletank8]

there has been a newish innovation in the past several years, though its basically invisible: gyro controls. While not perfect, they do give you a lot more precision than aiming with a stick. Its interesting to see the Sidewinder kinda sorta allow you pretty precise aim with its control scheme, in a way reminiscent of gyro.

[@Rifat.Rafael.Birmizrahi]

I like how Nintendo popularised D-pad and now abandoned it with the switch

[@WarpRulez]

@@Rifat.Rafael.Birmizrahi They didn't really "abandon" it. After all, the Switch pro controller still has a normal D-pad. For the Switch controllers they changed it to four buttons so that they could double for face buttons when used alone (rotated 90 degrees).

[@ZeAllMighty1]

@@WarpRulez while the pro controller does have a dpad, unfortunately it’s pretty bad. Which is a shame because until then Nintendo’s dpads has always been top notch

[@elitesniper923]

I feel like the dual shock was the first modern controller.

[@chrisestes859]

the guys at the beginning really nailed the characters they were playing perfect

[@heyitsmeshane]

Characters?

[@PabzRoz]

the filming was perfect. the angles and and everything just made it perfect.

[@Macc_]

"Greetings, and welcome to LTT Oddware, where we look at hardware and software that is odd, forgotten, and obsolete." Seriously though I'd love to see a collab with LGR, though I don't know what that would be. Either way I'm always down for videos on the wild west of vintage peripherals.

[@kofid3la]

How I read it in LGRs voice beats me 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@realkrzaku]

Don't insult LGR comparing it to current LTT... Please...

[@tanayyy2875]

@@realkrzaku oh we got a salty boomer here...hurr durrr kids out of my lawn

[@bobbym6130]

I remember the days when these things were in computer stores. It wasn’t obvious that the same mouse and keyboard people were using for spreadsheets and word processing was what people would use for gaming. Turn out, they did.

[@aerob1033]

FPS was really just an emerging genre. The dominant 3D games of the time were like Wing Commander, Descent, Mechwarrior, stuff like that where it kind of made sense to use a joystick. This video really made me think about how important Half-Life was in just *establishing the control scheme for first-person shooters.*

[@anchorbubba]

@@aerob1033 wasd was gaining popularity bc of fong but i never really thought about how half life was the first fps too ship with that control scheme

[@mind-of-neo]

That intro dream sequence felt incredibly 90s 🔥 well done

[@MatthewDraws]

This didn't show up in my subscription feed, saw it on recommended only, wtf KZbin

[@TetraSky]

uploaded nearly 30 minutes ago and still not in my subscription page... KZbin is dropping the ball.

[@bonniscootor]

This brought back a core memory I'd forgotten about! The 90s were full of weird peripherals that either didn't work at all, or took so long to set up that you essentially just left them connected and then "hid" them elsewhere on the desk. As for the control schemes...Descent is my number-one go-to for that time period. Not only could move the camera in "six directions", it was the first game to allow multi-axis movement as well!

[@Enakaji]

Man, that Sidewinder Dualstrike brings back some memories. I actually had that thing and the first Siderwinder Joystick (iirc the Sidewinder Joystick was the first to actually have the Stick twist for rudder controls). I actually used that Dualstrike stick for games like Terminal Velocity and Descent and it worked quite well for those 6DOF games. Edit: If you want to check out other kinda crazy input devices from that time period, try to get your hands on one of the "Essential Reality P5 Gloves". I had one and that was on one hand really immersive to use but also insanely tiring due to having to hold your hand up all the time.

[@Tearnofear]

Saytek Cyborg.The first one was freakin awesome^^

[@edwarddeguzman3258]

the actual sidewinder joystick was good for MechWarrior 3 for torso turning.

[@timothytregeagle9323]

Those Essential Reality P5 Gloves sound like they'd be interesting to play around with in VR

[@Enakaji]

@@timothytregeagle9323 You'd think so but they use infrared sensors so you have to constantly pay attentiuon to not move your hand out of the field of view of the basestation. They basically work like a 3D mouse, so you have up, down, forward, back and side to side movement but the Area in wich your hand gets tracked is rather small, since it only uses a single basestation. And your fingers are the mouse buttons, so your Index Finger is left click, middle finger is right click and your thumb is the middle mouse button. Ring and pinkie finger combined are used to "freeze" the handtracking so you can reposition the hand without it causing movement.

[@a64738]

Side winder and similar is sadly useless now thanks to all games that you need joystick for is made for use of magnetic joysticks... If you use sidewinder now you end up with nonlinear movement that is absolutely horrible making it useless.

[@TRLC]

This is the first time a video havent showed up in my sub-feed, i found it on recomended. (Im on android app)

[@userless_world_9540]

Same didn't show up on mine as well

[@thatsgottahurt]

Thought it was just me. This only popped up on recommend, and it said 7 hours ago. So I clicked back on my subs and it wasnt there.

[@aryantiwari1945]

weird it didn't show up in subscriptions

[@electronicscavenger2667]

The one I miss is the "Space Orb" once you got past the learning curve man.. it was awesome... it was fantastic... I wish they would make a new one.

[@CookyMonzta]

Spacetec took the design of their original Spaceballs (used for 3D design) and created a game controller. First came the Spaceball Avenger, which failed because of the positioning of the buttons. They rearranged the buttons for the SpaceOrb 360 a year and a half later. I still have 2 of them, and played the early 3D games with them, especially _Quake 3._ But USB made the game port obsolete. Two solutions were made available: The OrbShield (which required an Arduino board and was once sold by Seeed Studio but not since 2009, when last I checked), and the Orbotron 9000/9001, both of which will allow you to use a game controller with a game port (the USB connection is on the other end of the interface), both of which have been next-to-impossible to get for _years._ I still can't find an Orbotron available anywhere.

[@ryan0io]

@@CookyMonzta The spaceorb 360 was rs232 (serial), not game port. It took me a few days to get used to the spaceorb, but once I did, it was awesome. Especially for Descent 2, a 6DoF game. Always used it in horizontal mode, not vertical. Vertical was supposed to be easier to learn, but I actually found it harder. Being able to customize the acceleration curves in the windows 95/98 software was really good. Good old Descent 2 in the 90's, 4 player IPX LAN with voodoo1's running 3dfx GLIDE.

[@CookyMonzta]

@@ryan0io I haven't looked at my SpaceOrbs in _eons,_ and I have them buried somewhere deep, where it is not easy to simply pull them out; so, I forgot what connection the Orbs used.

[@201hastings]

Space Ball: The Controller

[@sriramsundar8388]

I wish you cover some early 2000s controllers, especially motorbike controllers like Thrustmaster Freestyler Handlebar, Yamaha MS-1 controller and Ducati Corse bike controller(apparently there were two versions of these. The second one is much harder to find any videos of it than the first version).

[@Verlisify]

Sometimes the intros are on point like this one

[@emmacares426]

Swrs they are improving 🔥🤗👌

[@Jonathan-fw6ty]

Are you 12?

[@PabzRoz]

lmfao that was actually hilarious

[@wardified8566]

Clipped

[@TheEnterShepman]

From our sponsor

[@CalebBaker500]

Not sure why, but this video isn't showing up in my subscriptions.

[@dezjunk]

I'd love for them to try out the Spaceorb360. I remember trying it out at a computer convention and liking it but I was 14 at the time. I am sure it sucked as I never invested in it. But man the nostalgia to seeing them use this would be awesome.

[@pandemicneetbux2110]

God, I wish I was able to go to computer conventions as a 14yo. Parents, never, ever raise your kid in the suburbs or a rural area. "But muh gangs!" is not good enough. They're more likely to get shot in suburban middleschool than get winged in a driveby, and the kinds of dirtyness, crippling poverty, despair, and lack of anything meaningful in life is what a country dirt road leads you. Live in city? Go to museums and computer conventions as a kid, maybe become electrical engineer in future.

[@ouncy1811]

I love where this channel and the company are going. Huge respect for you guys, who put so much effort into your videos. I thoroughly enjoy every one of them. Much love

[@cracklingice]

Fekkin youtube not putting this in my subscription feed for some reason. The sub feed is sacred youtube. 100% of videos should show there.

[@igoigr3824]

For some reason, YT did not deliver this video to my Subscriptions tab.

[@sikraemer]

I remember playing the Half-Life tutorial / demo as one of my first FPS game experiences with mouse and keyboard. DIdn't look much better than what Linus did with the FragMaster.

[@TheManiacscientist]

This cant be over. There was also Cyberman, a joystick over a mouse. Was officially recommended for Descent, true 6-axis game

[@gloomforged]

I had one of those. Terrible controller.

[@urbanarmory]

I thought the original Sidewinder was recommended for Descent... Am I misremembering?

[@BayareaXotics]

This wasn’t in my subscription list? Anyone else?

[@NanoElite666]

Same here. Seen a couple other comments about it as well.

[@sifters440]

Urm, is LTT shadow banned? This video didnt show up in my subscriptions?

[@zanolsena]

Seeing the Sidewinder unlocked a core memory from my childhood of having used my Dad's (which I have no idea why he had, anything other than M&K for shooters is utterly alien to him). I was pretty sure he still had it, and sure enough it was in his box of old racing wheels and keyboards. Gonna have to see if I can get this baby working in a modern shooter just for the hell of it.

[@AlphaMachina]

The look on his face when he asks, "just a button?" 11:02

[@iitchyVee]

Ahaha. He was bamboozled by the question

[@bluemamba5317]

@@iitchyVee Think he was very nervous

[@CasepbX]

3:05 I remember first learning about WASD and mouse with Quake 2 which was in 97. Went over to one of my cousin's friend's house to see Quake 2. He was playing with WASD and we laughed at him at first, thought he was mad! But then we tried it and got used to it fairly quickly and never went back. It was literally a game changer. Man that black and green color scheme for the Sidewinder Dual Strike is so XBOX!

[@EkiToji]

Yeah Quake 2 is still probably my favorite game just because of all the mods and how much time I put into it back in the day. It did ruin any chances of me ever possibly being able to enjoy Goldeneye 64 though. Was a huge step up from Quake 1 where you'd sort of automatically aim up and down since mouselook was an option not even enabled by default. That control scheme was far and away better though than something like Rainbow Six's defaults with the arrow keys and trying to quickly hit other buttons around it, and really there's no excuse for it given Rainbow Six was released a year later.

[@DuckReconMajor]

The supposed story is that Thresh (who won John Carmack's Ferrari at a Quake tournament) popularized WASD

[@wobblysauce]

Yep, given some more time, they could rethink the controllers... as they have had years of another style.

[@CanIHasThisName]

Oh crap, that's one of those really interesting trivia from the 90's and very early 2000s which I completely forgot about (was still a kid back then). Playing at internet cafes, most people there didn't have a computer at home and for a lot of them everything about Windows computers was completely new. Made for a really interesting culture. WSAD was one of the really common topics of debates for a good while. And then almost everyone was doing WSAD and when someone new appeared and was using arrows, he was immediately made aware of his crime. It also wasn't all that weird when someone had to explain to someone that they can use their mouse for aiming. A lot of people were experiencing proper 3D games for the first time ever and never even thought of the concept of a first person shooter. Or when there had to be a guy who would walk others through setting up a new room and some people were even struggling to join one.

[@PadawanPreacher]

FYI, this isn't popping up in my sub feed. I still found it, watched it, and liked it bc you guys deserve it. Just wanted to let you know. Thanks, KZbin, for almost making me miss a banger.

[@shamantha221b]

lmao spammers go brrrrrrrr

[@ericarmstrong2412]

I have this same issue. I was watching another video and it was below it and thats how I found it. Weird…

[@StateBlaze1989]

Man, these sorts of videos are equal parts nostalgia and culture shock to me, because even though I grew up in the 90s, I was a console kid, so I never learned about any of these pc peripherals or gimmicks.

[@sandmandream7469]

About the dual strike, just try it as a steering wheel in any driving game, it's excellent for those when you don't have the place to fix those devices on your desk, it's surprisingly precise and practical.

[@Myks0121]

I normally miss having the usual intro and the theme song always make me smile haha but i forgive not having it in replacement of whatever that was 😂😂😂

[@HipyoTech]

The intro is my worst nightmare :(

[@gg1bbs]

[@coolbrotherf127]

Hello Hipyo, love your channel too 👍

[@ryanhunt4336]

I'd be very interested to see if how well the Sidewinder works with the Steam configs. I feel like it could be pretty useful for some very specific games lol

[@danw7864]

It will never cease to amaze me how some things are made without being thought through even a little bit.

[@Redmage913]

Still have my MS Sidewinder Force Feedback 2. That's a carpal tunnel machine right there, especially using it left-handed, with the centering strength at maximum, and/or the extremely strong force feedback. The hand sensor along the back was great for temporarily disabling any force activity to give your wrist a rest as you maneuver, though it stops centering as well. Lotta concentration to keep your hand steady, the stick under control, and minimizing the pain. So many good hours with X-Wing Alliance, up until getting WinXP and losing all customization as the config software didnt actually talk to the XP drivers. Max settings for everything auto-applied, which was even better for tearing your wrist apart!

[@ChumpVice]

That's probably the best joystic ever made, and I was upset when mine broke. Once that haptic feedback patent expires, hopefully we can start getting all those back.

[@WantedOne]

I was thinking of the sidewider could be interesting to see in a flight or space flight based game... watching someone play something like star citizen with it :D

[@tacokoneko]

rumble on PC is not a good idea

[@LeeMatches]

We still have one. My 11yo uses it to play flight-sim. I genuinely thought this sort of design was the future of joysticks.

[@MorebitsUK]

I had the Sidewinder 2, especially for F22 ADF, Total Air War and the Descent Series. Such cool times.

[@harbl99]

"To move forward you use a button." Just put 'W' on the button and he'll be able to relate.

[@fansteboy7349]

He meant like "what's the point of this joystick then"

[@Arrowed_Sparrow]

I'm kinda amazed that the dual strike if fully functional on modern machines. I actually loved that controller but it's life span when used every day for hours is really short. In 3 months or so it started having issues and just before the full year it completely died.

[@SeraphimKnight]

Gotta love microsoft and their absolute legacy support policies.

[@magnuskallas]

I think they have never cleaned their core driver package. You can find all sorts of weird stuff if you go to Detect/Find driver manually setup. Windows is built like an onion...

[@svartholstjornuson6215]

This video is fantastic! That intro was a surreal nightmare!

[@R1NR4N]

Why was this not in my subscription feed?? No recommendations on my home page or anything... Freaking love KZbin so much

[@ericarmstrong2412]

Same

[@listerfeend2004]

I always like to explore the packaging before getting inside...

[@kaliban4758]

Lol

[@user-ip8xw2fp7n]

I remember them on my stores back then... The where very expensive!!!

[@johnlucken4426]

Anybody else have the problem where this didn’t show up on there sub feed?

[@harryman_1324]

Thanks youtube for not putting this in my sub box, but still recommending it to me.

[@fokker1138]

Now do the SGRL Titan Sphere and the SpaceTec SpaceOrb. If I remember correctly, Gravis or someone from that era had another screwy gaming controller that looked similar to the Titan Sphere, but the grips moved independently in a somewhat spherical frame work. I thought it was the dumbest thing I had ever seen, but can't remember who made it.

[@chrisward000]

I have a Spaceorb, no idea how I would get it to work on a modern PC, but it might be interesting to try. Only a madman would use it for an FPS or mouse replacement, but It worked really well with a very small number of true 6-axis games like Descent and a couple of space sims.

[@MyklCarlton]

@@chrisward000 Serial port connections are still possible with USB converters. I gave my SpaceOrb away a decade ago. Never really adapted to it in the way I have with kbd and mouse.

[@lasskinn474]

theres that cybersomething in like 93

[@shadowcloaksimulations1015]

Cyberpuck. It was horrible, but the button layout was amazing!

[@lasskinn474]

@@MyklCarlton serial is easy to hookup with a bluetooth dongle too. the drivers to read it are the hard part. linux seems to have a driver.

[@Raven1024]

I remember using a Gravis Xterminator Dual Control for Jedi Knight back in the day...in hindsight it was so bad, but at the time seemed so great with the little thumb analogue stick for movement! (Actually still have mine and have tried it for other games recently...it would be kinda cool to see a new one released with more buttons, a better throttle, and twist on the stick...)

[@BloodyIron]

The daisy chaining was so you could have two controllers set up for local multiplayer, or if you wanted your midi device plugged in to use at different times as midi through that gaming port was commonplace.

[@SecretMortician]

It's so empty here when you're early

[@Th3Build3r]

Fr

[@CBDaG]

true

[@BladesStar]

for me is 19:08 in germany xd

[@tydavis.3.1]

Give it like 15 minutes

[@later9515]

Same wtf

[@MegaSmiley]

I LOVED the Dual strike. Bought like 3 of them and broke them all from too much use. I was a killer sniper in Team Fortress with that thing. Specifically the DPad is garbage and breaks off all the time.

[@Pailloran.]

Yup, the D-pad broke off of two of them that I had. I also used it for Team Fortress and got pretty good with it, but there was a decent learning curve.

[@jezgregg2172]

Yep and it was unrepairable due to the stupid + under the pad

[@RenderEngine]

I remember playing Unreal back in 2001 using only keys the discovering mouse 🐁 commands actually work. That moment still sits 20 years later as a defining turning point in my life.

[@xanderkyron]

I loved my Sidewinder Dual Strike! I really want to get another one, but they DON'T actually work on modern Windows as the driver is incompatible, so while it detects a joystick you actually can't use the good precise mouse style aiming with the rotation, and can't snap. Removes the best thing about the device. I might actually build my own similar design and start selling them at some point because I think they had a good idea, just not an optimal execution due to the time.

[@trapical]

11:23 holy crap the nostalgia hit from that ancient Windows Media Player with the "cool" rounded corners.

[@lunatic911010]

Thank you for reviewing these. My dad had a sidewinder while I was growing up and I always wondered how it worked.

[@TheGAVstudio]

I actually tried the Sidewinder couple years ago. It works surprisingly good with id's Rage. It takes a while to get used to, but the trackball really improves the accuracy compared to a normal controller... Nothing close to a gaming mouse though, but still... a fun experience. If you can find one on the cheap, you should give it a try

[@CkVega]

I used to have one of the sidewinder pads, you could actually do quite well with it, but yeah the lack of a resting position made it tiering to use.

[@Aepek]

11:05 those sidewinders broke SO EASY, and also got the “track ball GUNKIES” stuck inside the rollers (whatever ya call em or they called) and this was even worse using than the thrust master, imo. And like said…..they both belonged in the BIN!🤦🏼

[@theangrymarmot8336]

I remember buying a "SpaceOrb" back in the day to play Descent - I thought that was the coolest thing ever. It wasn't cheap - and it wasn't good - but man did I think it was awesome.

[@megachonk9440]

Heh, I think that game is what I bought my MS Sidewinder 3D Pro for. While I loved it as a joystick, the extra axis from literally twisting the shaft of the joystick was better in concept than implementation. It's hard to use a joystick accurately while also twisting it precisely, because the twist didn't have a large range of motion.

[@MrFluteboy1980]

Oh man the Space orb was amazing for Descent though.

[@pandemicneetbux2110]

Ah this is the kind of thing I like watching on Linus. Really he should just keep doing this. These are things where clearly he and the whole team are having a great time, and we really like watching it. I love those old, estoteric hardware and ancient system setups type of videos. Linus' actually got the pull to track down and get interviews with the guys that actually designed these things too.

[@Mrparkdog1]

Love that anthony just has this computer chilling in his house such a cool rig for okaying the early pc games on brings back memories

[@pandemicneetbux2110]

God that doesn't surprise me one damn bit and a part of why Anthony is hands down my favouritest person on LTT. He could seriously host his own independent channel and I'd love watching it. Like can you even imagine a chiller Saturday afternoon than sitting around watching Wendel from level1 and Anthony discussing tech, possibly much older technology? In your pajamas, with a hot cup of coffee and amaretto flavoured creamer. God that is cozy.

[@Mechjoc]

Man, watching these just made me really miss my Sidewinder Forcefeedback Pro. That thing was AMAZING for Mechwarrior 3 and 4

[@Girvo747]

too right! Made playing MechWarrior so good haha. I still wanna get some hardware for MW5 rather than KB/M

[@willgallatin2802]

In MWO I ran a cyborg evo set up for left hand and a mouse to aim. insanely effective in a bushy.

[@pihermoso11]

i miss the Atlas, don't equip it with a jumpjet tho, it's better loaded with all weapons... er ppc ftw

[@KR4FTW3RK]

@@pihermoso11 MW4 runs just fine on windows 10 with some minor caveats (it wont run above 1920x1080... I tried) Just played the campaign a few weeks ago. It's still a really good game.

[@Greg1096]

Madcatz panther xl was the absolute best thing going for a fps game controller in those days, there are a few guys out there that are to this day updating them to use on modern computers

[@sergeantsilly5239]

I had that sidewinder dual strike but never used it for fps games. Only flight Simulators. Worked like a charm

[@azrael-labs]

oh ! I remember the times where there's was only one person who uses WASD control scheme. Personally, mine was SZXC+Mouse (because you can access the AQWED keys upper, for access functions like reloading, use Super Shotgun, or weapons, so it was very good for me at the time, when people used like cursors keys, or more keys like those PgUp/PgDn keys for looking up or down)

[@Liggliluff]

I've always thought of using ESDF instead, since you get extra keys to the left. But I've realised it's the left hand so it's usually meaningless and it's easier to hit keys to the right. But SZXC or A

[@Maartwo]

I really enjoyed this episode! I miss the days of these whacky inventions. I also really enjoy that you included the dude in the striped shirt, he's great!

[@rebmcr]

FYI this was not in my Subscriptions feed.

[@ishepard2]

6:36 I haven't played that intro level to HL in forever and I can still remember it like it was yesterday.

[@HauntedCorpseGaming]

I used a "Strategic Commander" back in the day, loved that thing, still in a drawer BUT it has no driver support nowadays.

[@sheik124]

Brother! I found one probably around the time I had Windows Vista and could never get it working. Now that I've got a few older machines I should try and find it. Was it any good for...anything?

[@georgen9838]

oh man I wanted the Dual Strike SO BAD back in the day, lol Also: daisy chaining game port controllers was supported by Microsoft as well (and Logitech's higher end stuff, and probably others too). Commonly used for multiplayer games, not just for HOTAS. And yes, game ports supported hotplug, and zeroing on plug-in was pretty standard.

[@georgen9838]

@bowen voowy yeah, I remember that! It wasn't actually a mouse - it was basically the Logitech G13 (or modern-day Razer Tartarus/Orbweaver) before the G13 was even a thing. It was designed for the left hand just like those, and was actually a great device - but it may have been hamstrung by the fact that, for comfort purposes, it was indeed designed with curves and button placement that made it look, just as you said, much like a mouse. In a way I suppose the product was *too* well designed for its task, and not well enough for market differentiation.

[@ash36230]

These intros are just getting better. Can't wait to see what Linus set on fire on the outtakes of this one

[@DreitTheDarkDragon]

And make new "This is fine" meme with Linus sitting in center of burning room

[@shantanusinha2828]

The Behind-The-Scenes is on Floatplane

[@jackielinde7568]

I had the Frag Master. Don't know what happened to it. It might have disappeared when the house was burgled in 2006, or Goodwill might have gotten it. As a Six Degrees of Freedom joystick, it really wasn't invented for games like Quake and Doom. I bought it to help me out with Descent, Decent: Freespace, and Microsoft Flight Sim games. My complaints are thus: - The damn thing was BULKY! It blocked a fair bit of the screen when used on my desk. - It didn't work on my lap. It needed the hard, firmness of the desk, not the squishiness of my fleshy legs. - The damn thing was mad cheaply. The ultimate reason I tossed it to the side was that there was no way to center the joystick, so it would drift if it wasn't returned to the exact center of the joystick. And, sometimes it would still drift. And you DO NOT WANT DRIFT in any flight/space sim. At some point soon, I'm going to be looking into HOTAS setups. Wish me luck.

[@curtismariani6303]

I had a much loved Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 joystick that I used with Mech Warrior 4. I think at some point it the drivers weren’t updated for later revisions of windows as after a period of non use I couldn’t get it to work with the version of windows I had. The immersion that joystick gave you when playing the game was like nothing else. If Microsoft brought out an updated Mech Warrior game with an included force feedback joystick I would definitely buy it. Especially if it worked with flight sim or was a VR game.

[@vince086]

This video doesn't show up in my "new videos" feed, no matter how many times I refresh. Wonder how many videos I've missed over the years.

[@ericarmstrong2412]

Same

[@DustyTheDog]

As a product of the 90's I can confirm it was definitely a weird time. Just look at how I turned out 👍👍👍 but also, what if someone used a mouse as the sensor, then 3D printed base for the mouse, then a stand and holder for an XBOX controller so that it could be the same idea, but with the movement of the mouse. Certainly a program can be made, or already exists, that can combine the controls. I know that in programs like PCSX2 you can have hybrid controls. Just map the buttons to whatever input you have.

[@TheRogueBro]

I remember when Microsoft released the SideWinder stuff. They had a "strategic commander" which was basically a mouse with a bunch of buttons it, or something like that.

[@shadowcloaksimulations1015]

You should try the SpaceOrb 360. It took some getting used to, and tuning, but once you mastered it nothing else came close. I still have a Windows XP machine, with a serial port just so I can relive the experience. Descent 2 played with the SpaceOrb 360 is a match made in heaven.

[@1s.e.c.racing304]

I swear the LTT team has better cinematic, editing and acting than most new movies. Absolutely love the channel amazing work the entire team!!!

[@wesleymercer4536]

I really wish they had the time and money to create a real movie. I bet it would be better than anything else in LA today.

[@JasonEfstathiou]

Oh come on. this intro is super funny and I love it but it's nowhere near the level of any halfway professional movie. And it's also obviously not meant to be.

[@1s.e.c.racing304]

Thats just it they don't have that budget nor all the tools. I enjoy the intros and production of these videos more than most new movies. Not all why I said most but still for a KZbin channel just dang.

[@R3mix97]

Did this not make it to anyone else's subscriptions page?

[@mikegames3654]

same

[@lazo1081]

You just digged out my memories of this controller xD i totaly erased the fact from my mind that i actually had bought and used one in my childhhod and now the nighmaresw will haunt my again xD

[@MrSparkefrostie]

How about an arduino project to get the frag working and then run flight sim, seems perfect for it

[@twilek123]

got my sidewinder forcefeedback pro running through an arduino mini usb controller that just does the translation for gameport. Can confirm it works like a charm, even the Forcefeedback..

[@MrSparkefrostie]

@@twilek123 i suspect it will work with anything gameport

[@SomeGuy_GRM]

I guarantee you it's possible, but Linus didn't try hard enough.

[@MrSparkefrostie]

@@SomeGuy_GRM considering Anthony's views on retro, thought it wouldve been tested, cant recall if that little retro box he has (seen in previous video) had gameport

[@crazyeyez1502]

The Fragmaster seems like it might be useful for tank based games, like your sponsor, WarThunder

[@_invencible_]

At the highest tiers war thunder is just an FPS. Tanks move and aim really fast, so it's only a matter of who can click faster on the enemy tank. Source: my channel is dedicated to War Thunder (shameless plug alert!)

[@hi_tech_reptiles]

MS made *so* many Sidewinders, both in model and in sheer quantity lol. Finding new in box or perfect condition ones is NOT hard. Cuz of course, other than maybe their boomerang one, they weren't super popular in comparison afaik. Especially post USB.

[@them2613]

Anyone remember the weird helmet with infrared tracker and separate "nunchucks" for FPS input? I believe they advertised it together with MDK back in the days. Worked like a charm, too. Must have used it at least twice .... don´t remember if I´ve still got it kicking around though and can´t seem to find any images of it online.

[@adam346]

I am loving the retro content, keep it up!

[@helplmchoking]

Okay I can actually see the thinking behind the ridiculous fragmaster thing. I think it's insane and wrong, but I can understand it. I never understood the whole inverted control thing in a first person game, until a friend explained it as "imagine you're basically holding the back of the characters head, pulling down would make them look up". Which sounds a lil psychopathic and weird, but it makes logical sense. I can see the fragmaster following that logic, you're basically holding your character by the head from behind and tilting them around and pushing them forward and back. I still think it's awful and wrong, even just inverted mouse controls suck, but I can kinda see the train of thought that lead them to make it. I'm also very glad these things never caught on

[@Ignisami]

If you’re used to flight sims inverted y-axis controls also make intuitive sense because that’s how actual planes work. Pretty sure the fragmaster predates that tho :p

[@Jess-jl2tx]

I'm pretty sure my dad had the microsoft controller back in the day. such a throwback

[@DJKHOTTA]

I like the idea of having a twisting and tilting control but on the left hand, we nowadays split the X and Y axis between left and right analog sticks, but it definitely makes it feel like you're aiming when you're twisting and tilting the hand.

[@wiredupretro]

I enjoyed watching your agony while you tried to use these lovely controllers- and I did wonder how well that Fragmaster would work to play Star Wars the Arcade Game...