What Would You Do Here, With Both Balls Frozen to the Rail?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

*Series Videos:* 1.) What Would You Do Here, With Both Balls Frozen to the Rail? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqK2lqawa9GoqLc 2.) What Would You Do Here? - Safety Follow-Up kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y 3.) What Would You Do Here? - Final Chapter: How to Win kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk *Rules Question:* Many people have questions about rules in the comments. This video is based on the official WPA World Standardized Rules, which are used in most pool tournaments and leagues. Some of the shots in the video might not be allowed under some versions of "bar rules" or in UK pub games. For those interested, all official pool rules can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/ *Supporting Resources:* - Straight rail shot videos: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/rail-cut/straight/ - System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): drdavebilliards.com/saws/ - Aim compensation when using sidespin: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/compensation/ - Video Encyclopedia of Eight Ball (VEEB): drdavebilliards.com/8-ball/ - Video Encyclopedia of 9-ball and 10-ball (VENT): drdavebilliards.com/vent/ - VEEB video excerpt - How to Deal with an End-Game Ball Tied Up with the Black in 8-ball: billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVG-8.htm

[@xavierxerxes6254]

When I first read the title I cracked up 😂

[@BladeRunner-td8be]

Your comment made me "go there". That visual is both funny and frankly a bit disturbing. LOL

[@Sharivari]

Nice analysis :) The best shot that was shown is 4:30. To avoid or make it real tough for your opponent to put the 8 back to the 11 ball, don't play it straight but with a slight angle. That's what I would have done. Thanks for the video Dr. Dave.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Sharivari Good idea. That approach is covered in the VEEB video linked in the video description. Here it is: billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVG-8.htm

[@Seri-Katil]

@@DrDaveBilliards double kiss the 8 at a slight angle going away from the 11 and leave the cue ball about half way up table behind the 8

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@Seri-Katil Good idea, but if you don't get the CB to a cushion, that would be a foul.

[@jacek20]

dafuq am I watching here at 2am...

[@patrickbourdages6795]

same here but at 3am..

[@WilliamSarokon]

Same here at 7:41 am.

[@zetheus555]

Thats cos you dont play pool

[@WilliamSarokon]

@@zetheus555 Buddy, if you're talking to me you have no clue. 7 APA & Tap, certified referee for both leagues. Been to Vegas many times. Sleepless in Sandusky 5 times. I'm from Greensburg Pa. Don Steele was one of my mentors. One of the top 50 senior pros in the USA. No offense to you but you're barking up the wrong tree here pal!!!! You want some more of my credentials? Lmk 🤫

[@zetheus555]

@@WilliamSarokon wow do you need a standing ovation from me? No ones talking to you shut your bragging ass up

[@casamusika4831]

What would you do? Answer- Call Efren Reyes!

[@richmathtutor]

The first thing i would do is pull out my calculator :)

[@chriscripplercruz1833]

WWED what would efren do lol

[@TheDude13]

I had almost the same situation last week on league night. I'm glad I had watched this! I went for the simple - bump them to leave a little separation and leave the cue ball frozen on the rail behind my object ball. I won - thanks, Dr Dave.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good job! I'm glad to hear it. Knowledge is power!

[@DGA-expert]

Dave, your presentation have gotten better. I like the showing of incorrect, and well as other "workable" shots and then the best shot. Seeing the outcomes of each is of tremendous value. Nicely done.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

wrightme Thank you. I’m glad you like my new presentation style.

[@rjohnson8ball]

My first idea was to cut the 8 directly into the opponent's stripe ball, making his stripe with the 8 hardly moving, and let the cue ball go way down table. The result would be a tough shot on the 8 ball for the opponent.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good idea. That is one of the shots in my follow-up video that I should finish today.

[@VIProfessor]

That's the shot I like for my money.

[@jessieshores4865]

When you said ball in hand the first thing that came to my mind was an open table hook. Place the cue to the left of the stripe and thin the outside of the eight with low left at a low moderate stroke. Played well the eight comes nearly straight out and the cue finds the side cushion between the corner and the first diamond. With the right speed you hook the stripe player with the eight. Or you can play this same shot more aggressively simply free your eight ball and sending the cue to the bottom rail. Not right or wrong, but its what crossed my mind

[@jgmatp]

Dave, you're a true pool nerd. I mean that in a good way. Ha! Thanks for the mind expanding instructional videos.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. I know I'm a geeky pool nerd, and I'm proud. :)

[@Silentfire64]

That Carom kick was so clean. Gunna practice that quite a bit. Would love to see my opponents face after nailing that at some point.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Windex It is extremely rare that this would be the right choice in any game situation, but it is fun to practice.

[@WilliamSarokon]

Good job on the editing. Great content also. Please do not let anyone discourage you.

[@jesleysnipes3758]

Carom kick timing shot... jeez buddy! That’s cool

[@DrDaveBilliards]

... damn right! :)

[@jesleysnipes3758]

Dr. Dave thanks for teaching us out here in KZbin land. Lots of creativity in your videos.. good example right there 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼💯💪🏼😬

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@jesleysnipes3758 You're welcome ... and thank you! I aim to swerve. :)

[@Zombies8MyPizza]

With the cue ball in the first position, I'd just trickle up to the 8 and lay a snooker. If you hit the 8 pretty thin and leave the cue ball on the rail hardly moving the 8 or stripe, it's a tough escape for your opponent as they can only hit one side of the stripe coming off the opposite long rail.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Agreed.

[@MrRex1949]

Thanks Dr. Dave for those tips. I learned a few tricks I never knew about. 👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're very welcome. I aim to swerve. :) FYI, if you haven't seen the follow-up videos yet, check them out here: What Would You Do Here? - Safety Follow-Up kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y What Would You Do Here? - Final Chapter: How to Win kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@intoxicviii]

I would scratch & not make it my problem lol.

[@josephroxursox]

Then your opponent has the exact same options as what was discussed in the video and can leave you in a real pickle..

[@josephroxursox]

@@intoxicviii I mean I guess but if your mentality is to give up a free opportunity to play safe and make your opponent play safe, then you're letting them lead the safety battle and if they're even a somewhat decent player that's probably not a smart idea.. I'm not saying you can't outshoot them in the end or whatever cuz I have no idea how well you (or your hypothetical opponent) play, I'm just saying I'd rather have an opportunity to play safe first than to give my opponent the first crack at it.

[@intoxicviii]

@@josephroxursox I understand, But there Shots in the Video feel like a more advanced player. I Socially play, but its straight forward playing. Ball to ball to whole lol.

[@josephroxursox]

@@intoxicviii ooooh, I feel you man!

[@intoxicviii]

@@josephroxursox Haha yeah, It's just pool man.

[@tomsorlie4197]

Another nice shot, with ball in hand on the 8 ball, is to place the cue ball facing the 8 ball perpendicular to the short rail. Hit cue ball into the 8 ball with bottoms. The 8 ball gets pulled off the rail and the cue ball goes to the other end of the table leaving a pretty tough shot for your opponent.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Tom Sorlie Check out my follow-up video showing safety options. That’s one. Here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I guess great minds think alike. :)

[@tomsorlie4197]

@@DrDaveBilliards I enjoy your videos. I always learn something. Thanks and keep them coming.

[@BladeRunner-td8be]

Holy Perfect Double Kisses, Batman ! With ball in hand playing safe has to be 100% correct. However the way you played "it" you played a few safes here but the first safe you played you moved the striped ball MUCH too far. Why not come in at an very minor angle hit the 8 ball then just barely touch rail for a legal shot thereby not moving the opponents ball so close to the pocket. Keep the cue ball as close to the 8 as possible so the opponent has to shoot over the 8 ball if he or she wants to try anything tricky. Just make sure to leave enough room to fit the cue ball in between the striped ball and the 8 ball so if the opponent gives ball in hand we can make the 8 in the right corner pocket. Anyway, lots of great information going on here regardless of how the shot is played.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. Check out the follow-up videos linked in the video description above. For convenience, here they are: 2.) What Would You Do Here? - Safety Follow-Up kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y 3.) What Would You Do Here? - Final Chapter: How to Win kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@WilliamSarokon]

Dave,thank you for the video. 1 thing about your table. It is super fast. Great tutorials also. Thanks again.

[@jiovannisookhai4446]

Some tournaments have the 3 foul rule so the safety exchange might work at your benefit

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good point. If you haven't seen the follow-up videos yet, check them out. They present several good safety options: 2.) What Would You Do Here? - Safety Follow-Up: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y​ 3.) What Would You Do Here? - Final Chapter: How to Win: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@rossmyers1595]

Another option I came up with is in the ball in hand scenario you set the cue ball up about a half diamond higher at most up the table on the opposite side of the table from the origional from the origional shot position shown. Thin the 8 ball and send the cue ball 3 rails up table. You develop the 8, are creating distance, and are always leaving a long and tough bank or cut for your opponent. There is also a fair chance of leaving them long and behind the 8 with the correct speed control. Still touchy but I do feel it's a high percentage option for the ball in hand scenario

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good idea. That could prevent the cushion-first spin shot I demonstrated.

[@DeeEll86442]

The thing I noticed with any of these shot is if you don't make the 8 you leave you opponent a good 8 ball shot.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Agreed. The offensive options are reckless at best.

[@bennylloyd-willner9667]

Oh, I forgot to say.. GREAT video as always!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks! This one was really fun to do.

[@simmerke1111]

With ball in hand, wouldn't the most sensible option be glance the 8 and leave them on the top cushion? Their only shot would be a difficult bank if you created distance or playing a simple snooker.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See the follow-up videos: 2.) What Would You Do Here? - Safety Follow-Up kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y 3.) What Would You Do Here? - Final Chapter: How to Win kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@Ron-zu3qp]

That last shot was amazing!

[@jakedemedeiros9978]

That last kick was filthy

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Jake de Medeiros Thanks. Filthy ... and fun.

[@DaneliusUK]

Enjoyed it, thank you.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad to hear it. Be sure to check out the follow-up videos links in the video description.

[@markandapps]

Carom kick timing shot by efren Reyes.

[@Catski1jedi]

Another awesome video Doc. Thanks. I’ll be trying those first couple shots and see how I fare. Cheers.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you ... and you're welcome. I hope you enjoy and benefit from practicing the shots.

[@noegojimmy]

I like the first shot cause it feels good or just some kind of stick White to the balls. Nice video.

[@petergerling]

In what situation would this be viable? The 8 has to be played “clean”, right? Oh, and if the 8 is frozen on the rail it’s a foul if you don’t drive a ball to a different rail.... I love taking shots like these but get it right by using different balls please! How about being stripes and doing that shot? 15 off the 1 corner pocket! There!!!! But I do enjoy your videos!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Peter Gerling Under the official WPA rules of pool, used in most tournaments and leagues, no ball, even the 8, needs to be played “clean.” Also, if the CB hits the 8 first and then hits the cushion, that is a legal hit. If you or others want to check out the rules, they are available here: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/

[@Bart_Depestele]

3:18 is easy in a video cuz as you said, you needed more shots, but in a match you will probably miss it

[@khaiminh9095]

I’m not a regular pool player and I’m only 15 (just so you know how inexperienced I am) but what I would do is pot the white ball so that the other player has to deal with that situation.

[@Kentucky_Blue]

Your slowmo vids are epic.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

bozworthy Thank you.

[@colinmccarthy7921]

I would say the best would be to hit the queball up the table .It would rebound and come back sitting on the two balls frozen to the rail.If any body could play that shot,that would be a shot in a million.

[@MSoloWacck]

You can try play safety touch the 8ball just a lil bit just so you get front of the stripe so in that case he has to play safety or make the shot

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Check out the follow up videos that show a wide range of safety options, along with the best: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@runhorse]

Very nice video, you sir are a scientist of the green felt.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

... but table cloth color is Tournament Blue. :)

[@thmswalters]

From your original position, I'd play an extremely soft touch hook probably just about every time. Not sure how difficult it would be on your table, but on my home turf I bet I could make it work at least 3/5. Between not spreading the balls and kicking the 8 off the rail just enough to avoid leaving a window, it should block the outside English "reverse kick" shot you showed. With ball in hand, even better, but other options open up at that point also as you suggested.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I agree that is the right choice here, especially if you can do it reliably and block any easy (or "not so easy") kick.

[@antoniog9814]

In the scenario where both players play safe, the 1st player can invoke the 3-foul rule, forcing the 2nd player to not keep intentionally fouling on the 8.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Antonio Guerrero There is no 3-foul rule under standard 8-ball rules.

[@wdiddy1]

If there was it would be you, me, you. Not you, you, you anyways. 3 foul is different for 8 ball.

[@tigerguy760]

Apa makes the game easy. Play bank 8 and the 8 is not neutral, call all shots with all rails used. Makes for a much more interesting and skill based game.

[@Ramp10er]

I got another shot on the first shot, just like your Carom Kick. Making the eight on the bottom right pocket with a combination on the 11 ball. A thin cut on the eight, then a left spin slightly elevated...

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good idea, but that is tough!!! Have you tried it?

[@Ramp10er]

@@DrDaveBilliards I think I did during a match. I can't remember. I just come up with a shot during a situational shot... If I missed that kind of shot then my cue ball is on the other side of the eight, making it tougher for my opponent...

[@sdickinson5234]

I like a variation of 1:15 where you pocket the 11 and put the cue ball on the top rail, with the 8 staying on the bottom rail.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

S Dickinson FYI, that’s one of the options shown in the follow-up videos linked in the video description.

[@maxmustermann194]

I'd call ambulance with both balls frozen to the rail! That doesn't sound healthy at all.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Funny. :)

[@creedolala6918]

nice, the last one is creative!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. Check out the follow-up videos for more interesting shots: 2.) What Would You Do Here? - Safety Follow-Up kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y 3.) What Would You Do Here? - Final Chapter: How to Win kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@S1L3NTG4M3R]

so mine was the 3rd shot... GG... I didn't know about the first one.... great shot!

[@1Chimico]

in regards to the last safety shot you showed, wouldn't you say that keeping up the safety play will eventually get you to a position where it's easier to attack the 8ball before the opponent can bank their ball in? nice video idea, btw

[@DrDaveBilliards]

That approach often ends like I demonstrated; but on VENT, we show how to better deal with it. I’m glad you liked the video. Be sure to also check out the follow-up,videos linked in the video description.

[@TimZ007]

You forgot the try to play safe, miscue, then snap shaft over knee. LOL

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Tim Z I’ll keep that in mind for my next video. :)

[@robertbrowning443]

Nice ..yall do a great job on these videos..

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you. Be sure to check out the follow-up video links in the description above.

[@fredwaneket]

If you are stripes, is it legal to pot first the striped and then the 8 ball in one and the same shot?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

No. The 8 must be pocketed on an independent shot, where it is hit first.

[@jupiter1219]

thanks for the hands up ,, on a game play options Mr, Dave

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@jupiter1219]

@@DrDaveBilliards what do you think about artistique CARAM OR BILLIARD have you see it???????????

[@FlyinRaptorJesus]

What would you do in the same ball set up but had to hit the stripe ball before the 8?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I would probably play safe, banking the 11 toward the upper-left corner pocket while leaving the CB in the center of the table for no easy shot of safety on the 8 for my opponent. A soft thin-hit safety is also a good option on a level table.

[@S1L3NTG4M3R]

so with either APA and BCA rules, I would hit the 8 ball, using right spin, to play in the corner top right from camera POV (calling it first)...

[@jimmykhoury167]

In a shot like that you have to play safe by playing the cue ball at a slow pace touching the left side of the 8 ball leaving the cue ball behind the 8 and distance the oponents ball from the 8 ball

[@DrDaveBilliards]

FYI, this and related options are demonstrated in the follow-up videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk Check them out.

[@724riff]

i have made a similiar 9 ball shot once when the balls were relative to the same at .07 and used left hand english pushing the object ball off the 9 creating space and the cue kicked from the long rail back to the short rail making the 9 in the corner by your feet , i guess it would be a clearance shot IDK . It was just in fun so i surely would have done a combo or something different ,

[@724riff]

i believe the shot i had may have been flatter with the cueball also

[@88gtman]

My thought if I had ball in hand would be to play safe by hitting across the 8 ball to break it out and send the cue ball up table to force either a long bank or a tough cut.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

That's a good idea, especially if you don't disturb the 11 very much or at all.

[@MrShomari1]

I love this shot when it comes up in a game and i make it. I have praticed this shot a hundred times or so. when in a game it confuses people and they think ball in hand. It's funny when u remind them u hit ur ball first

[@DrDaveBilliards]

i don't think I've ever had the first shot come up in a game, but I look forward to the day that it does, assuming I feel like showing off (or at least attempting to) in the moment.

[@MrShomari1]

@@DrDaveBilliards My man it has come about more than once for me. Ive nailed it once in a game. The shot where u put bottom on the ball practically lined up ive also nailed. My wife and 1 of my pool buddies learned to knock 2 balls in 1 after the other watching ur videos. Well me watching your video and incorporating it in a game and teaching them was a great feeling. Keep making videos and i will keep watching. I will have subscribed by the time u read this. Thanks again

[@MrShomari1]

Im alreday subscribed lol😜

[@antonnyo3694]

That's why even when I was still younger, I always say that billiards is the toughest sport in the entire world. It would require somebody a lifetime to become great in this game.

[@Larcona_]

There isnt a toughest sport, the best are the best and they are all equal at what they do.

[@cruz1ale]

@@Larcona_ Of course there is. The differences between sports translate into differences in how difficult they are to master. It might be difficult to determine that objectively, but that's not the same as "all sports are the same". Mini golf is obviously not tougher than golf, for instance.

[@Larcona_]

@@cruz1ale Last I checked mini gold isnt a professional sport, at least not on the same stage as pool

[@cruz1ale]

@@Larcona_ Sure. My point still stands

[@Larcona_]

@@cruz1ale Besides that, that wasn't my point, my point is that the best in one sport are equally skilled to the best in another

[@sendhelpbaylon]

I’d play safe.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Me too. See the follow-up videos linked in the video description. Here they are, for convenience: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@MyGreenpotato]

Dr Dave is as always very informative. Only one note, that his table is way too forgiving and most of these shots wouldn't be potted, in other tables.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

All of the techniques and principles are the same on any table. Obviously, on a table with tighter pockets, greater accuracy is required.

[@ethanwolbert6153]

DrDaveBilliards your table is also quite fast and some tables play really slow

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@ethanwolbert6153 Agreed, but some tables play even faster. I have old Simonis 860HR on my table, which is significantly slower than new Simonis 760.

[@bmac7885]

1st shot, is potting the stripe ball not a foul if you're on the 8ball? I play uk 8ball and in our rules it is legal to pot both as long as you hit your own ball 1st, but I wasn't aware if this is the same in US 8ball, is it?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

In every official set of pool rules I know about, all that matters (on any shot, including the 8) is hitting your ball first and potting it in the called pocket. Other things that might happen are immaterial (assuming the shot is not a foul). For those interest in official pool rules, see: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/

[@bmac7885]

Thanks Dave :-) in UK (Northern Ireland) we play similar rules in our game (8ball, black ball, reds/yellows, take your pick) they are NIPA rules, as long as you strike your own ball 1st and pot anything else is immaterial, but the rest of the uk play what we call 'world rules' and that shot would be a foul (and also not possible on our 7x4 ft tables with small/light balls, lol). Have been playing a lot more US 8ball/9ball on the bigger tables, a different animal altogether but I am loving learning the new skill set and enjoy your videos/tips, people don't really understand how different size and weight of the object balls can effect the rolls and lines of a shot........I used to be a 'snooker is much harder, pool is easy blah blah' kinda person, but my eyes have been opened, each game is as different as night and day even though the basics are identical, keep up the good work mate, you're helping people all over the world improve :-)

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@bmac7885 Thank you for the info and for the kind words. I appreciate it. Good luck with your game!

[@nnickers3355]

Republic of Ireland here. Only ever played pool in pubs. I guess it was "world rules". I always thought it was odd that if you pot yours but happened to pot your opponents that it was a foul (2 shots). It's bad enough you just helped them pot some of theirs. It's like scoring an own goal and then they also get a penalty. So why is this "world rules" so popular when there are proper official tourney rules?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@nnickers3355 These British/Irish "world rules" do not apply to 8-ball played Internationally. In the official WPA World Standardized Rules (wpapool.com/rules-of-play/) used in most American and International pool tournaments and leagues, there is no foul for pocketing other balls during a shot ... any shot (even the 8).

[@lostinbjj9266]

There’s like 5 shots you missed in that situation. Especially with ball in hand on the eight.

[@rossmyers1595]

How about in the origional starting position you thin the 8 on with bottom right. With the proper speed control you should be able to bring the 8 off the rail while also leaving a very tough cut or a kick for your opponent?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Ross Myers Excellent idea. It is touchy, but probably much higher percentage than the aggressive offensive options.

[@rossmyers1595]

Yeah definatly not guaranteed and very touchy but it's the highest percentage option I could come up with. I don't know. Will have to look into it more on my own time. Great video though as always

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@rossmyers1595 Thanks for the comments and positive feedback.

[@Snowbag1998]

Very interesting one Dave ! By the way, when we'll have the chance to see some trick shots videos from you ?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. Have you seen my "25 Advanced Game-Winning Shots Good Pool Players Know" video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4PYpoOCj7Chq7s Some of those shots are "trick shots." And other "trick shot" videos I have done can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/FAQ/trick-shot/

[@Snowbag1998]

​@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks for the links Dave ! I found another interesting video on your channel named Mike Massey Pool and Billiard Trick Shot Collection kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpq6lWOLm7yNfs0

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@Snowbag1998 If you like analysis of trick and proposition shots, see my videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/FAQ/trick-shot/

[@abrahamv.7714]

Question at minute 3:00, I'm still learning the rules but, isn't that shot a foul? no ball touches a rail after the contact, al balls are in contact at all times arent they? Thanks.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The CB hit the 8 first, before the cushion (barely), and then the CB hit the cushion, so the shot is legal.

[@abrahamv.7714]

@@DrDaveBilliards Oh I get it, thanks!

[@juanpena3744]

Nice explication. From DR

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks you. I aim to swerve. :)

[@matrobinson888]

Love all of your vids Dave, you provide a great service and I have learned a lot watching them...but have to say your pockets look very generous

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Mat Robinson They play tighter than they look with certain types of shots, but they are big. Although, that has nothing to do with the principles covered in my videos. You just need to be more accurate on a table with tighter pockets.

[@unclewreckum4977]

Nasty little shot right there. I learned this shot from a man called Cannonball out of Houston Texas.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It is not often I learn a shot I've never seen before. This was one of them. I saw it posted on the AZB forum recently.

[@matthewdavis6403]

Has there been a video done on safety practice routines or does anyone have routines that have worked for them in the past?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

We cover safety practice in VEPP: drdavebilliards.com/vepp/disc_III.html

[@robkitchen5344]

Looks great.... Id play a safety

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. Me too.

[@dflur]

On this shot, anybody I have ever shot pool with would shoot the leave behind the eightball. Be sure to try and leave a gap between the balls if you are trying to get ball in hand.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Agreed. Good description. I will be showing this and other "best options" in a "final chapter" video soon.

[@SweetJP.]

I don't understand why your safety shots are so extremely hard. this safety shot should never roll the 11 any more than half a balls length, doing this, will give the opponent the same opportunity to make a foul play, but a much harder time positioning the 8 and 11 in bad angles for your ball-in-hand play.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See the follow-up video covering safety options: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y

[@StarlightRevamp]

If a ball is frozen to a rail, isn’t that rail considered dead therefore not allowing you to initiate contact with the 8 and then the rail it was frozen to as a safety? I was under the impression that anytime a ball is frozen to a rail, contact must be made with a separate rail by either the object or the cue for the shot to be legal. I play APA and TAP so maybe there is a rule variance amongst our respective rule sets. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Dave!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

StarlightRevamp If the CB hits the 8 first and then the cushion, the shot is legal (under the official WPA rules of pool). I am not familiar with APA rules, but I would be shocked if this is a foul.

[@elizabethtwenge2239]

Valley rules and BCA rules the rail is dead something would have to make contact with another rail if the 8 is frozen or it would be a foul.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@elizabethtwenge2239 The rail is dead for the 8, but not for the CB, as long as the CB hits the cushion after hitting the 8, right?

[@elizabethtwenge2239]

My understanding is that the rail is dead period. Something has to make contact with another rail regardless of what contacts what and when. Most pool in my area is played by Valley and BCA rules and most players are not aware of this rule. It was a Valley Nationals ref that brought this dead rail rule to my attention.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@elizabethtwenge2239 Under all official 8-ball rules I know about, having one ball frozen to a cushion does not make that cushion "dead" for all remaining balls. If you want to research it to confirm this, all rules documents can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/

[@lindomarbinze5069]

Dr Dave FOREVER...

[@BaconFrisbee]

There are probably any number of thin hits on the 8 with outside to leave the cue ball on the opposite rail, maybe with the 8 in front of the stripe.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Agreed. I'll have examples of this in my follow-up video that I should finish today.

[@BaconFrisbee]

@@DrDaveBilliards Not that these are bad options, of course.

[@MarCel-ih6ui]

4:50 Why is that a foul but the previous shot not? Both shots are the same or not?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you are shooting solids and the 8 is the only ball left on the table, you must hit the 8 first. If the opponent (playing stripes) hits the 8 first, it is a foul. It is confusing in the video because I am playing the part of both myself and my opponent.

[@tonmoybhuiya7499]

Wouldn't it be better to practice to not end up with a shot like that? I mean in a 8 ball game u have quite a few solids/stripes to pot which u can use to break open balls that are in this kind of position.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good point. It would be nice to avoid situations like this, but sometimes an opponent plays an effective safety and can leave you in a tough spot.

[@sam8603]

I’d play softly enough so the cue ball is tight to the rail and tight behind the 8 ball causing the opponent to give me nothing but a ball in hand!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Me too. See the follow-up videos:: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@jonescrusher1]

Surely has to be a safety in matchplay conditions

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Most definitely. See the follow-up videos: 2.) What Would You Do Here? - Safety Follow-Up kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y 3.) What Would You Do Here? - Final Chapter: How to Win kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@Luke-yx5ve]

At the start you could've hit the cushion first slowly, releasing the 8 at the same time as the white and leaving the white firmly set behind the 8 ball with the 8 ball out of the way

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Wouldn't that be a foul since the 8 and 11 are both frozen to the cushion? Or maybe I misunderstand what you are suggesting.

[@Luke-yx5ve]

@@DrDaveBilliards it could be since I don't really know American rules, I play English pool which also means it's a foul of you pot another players ball at any point so some of the shots you played wouldn't have worked for me

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Luke 12365698 The WPA world standard rules that I follow in my videos are not just American, they are International pool rules. It is unfortunate that English pool uses different rules. Americans are bad at this sort of thing also. For example, we still haven’t fully converted to the international metric system yet.

[@Luke-yx5ve]

@@DrDaveBilliards ah right, well English pool varies from place to play but usually we also don't use ball in hand or ball has to hit the rail after first contact

[@AccordionJoe1]

I would shoot the 8 hard. The stripe would go in but the cue ball would stay at one end of the table and the 8 would hopefully end up on the short rail at the opposite end of the table, giving my opponent a tough shot for a win.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

FYI, there are several other interesting options in the follow-up videos linked in the video description.

[@hankleblanc5683]

Very interesting and informative, Dr. Dave. Thanks! I wonder, though, if the game was on a good table that played true, wouldn't a good player skilled in billiards have a good chance of making the stripe in the corner if it were left on the rail and not so near the 8-ball that the 8-ball would interfere? Currently, I'm trying very hard to use your videos, some other KZbin instructional material and, of course, videos of actual games to improve my game. As do most pool players, I love watching Efren Reyes. I know that part of the reason he is so good at kicking and playing safeties is his world-class billiards skills. I remember in one of your videos on systems, you demonstrated how to make balls on the rail with 3-cushion kicks. So, if the stripe ball were separated in an attempted safety, is there a kick pattern that could be used by the opponent? Apologies for focusing on the opponent's ball instead of the 8-ball, but playing a safety against a good billiard player seems to demand never leaving a kick available while making a legal play.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

There is always a kick, but some are tougher than others. In my follow-up video, I will be showing the most effective safeties.

[@hankleblanc5683]

@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks. I just watched your follow-up. I'm definitely going to include these in my next practice session.

[@marciomateus5945]

Comprei uma mesa de bilhar recentemente e irei melhorar minhas habilidades vendo os seus vídeos. Parabéns E obrigado por compartilhar.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I hope you get many years of enjoyment out of your new table.

[@cristianmunteanu8765]

Awesome, as always. 😉

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks!

[@moekhn]

I thought double taps are foul shots. The karem kick is clean but i also thought that is a foul too

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Sorry, but I don't know which shots in the video you are referring to. Please refer to points in times in the video.

[@moekhn]

@@DrDaveBilliards im very confused . The league i play in doesnt allow the 8 ball to play off any ball into the pocket. Or to hit any object ball more then once off the cue . Must be the league i play in though

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@moekhn What type of league do you play in? All of the official rules of pool I know about allow the 8 to do anything as long as you can the pocket and don't violate any official rules. FYI, all of the official rule sets can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/

[@moekhn]

@@DrDaveBilliards im talking about the object ball touching the cue ball while in motion after the intial hit is considered a double tap

[@DrDaveBilliards]

moekhn Is there a shot in this video where you think this occurs? If so, let me know the time at which it occurs.

[@5part4]

Getting them into the top corners was wow lol

[@DrDaveBilliards]

FYI, I didn't make either of them the first time. The first took about 10 tries, and the 2nd took about 25 tries! The double kiss timing needs to be perfect.

[@5part4]

@@DrDaveBilliards still was awesome to capture it on video lmao. It would take me 50 tries! Haha

[@terrythomas4407]

It might take me two days or even weeks for that shot.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It is more of a “trick” or “ proposition” shot.

[@stuartmckenzie7543]

Anything's possible with buckets for pockets but nice shot anyway

[@TheHorton501]

3:15 would be a foul. No rail

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Sorry, but I don't see a foul at 3:15. The shot before that, starting at 3:01, is good since the CB started off the cushion a bit (tough to see on video), hit the 8 first (ever so slightly), and then the cushion.

[@tigerMpower]

Awesome skills 👍👍👍

[@rudyfranco1009]

Good tips

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad you like them.

[@mikewest712]

It amazes me how me people have no clue about the actual rules but think that bar rules count.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

"Bar rules" are just hearsay with lots of nebulous variation. The actual official rules of pool are written and well defined. For those interested in actual rules, they can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/

[@unclewreckum4977]

On that backwards cut rail kick for a hit on the 11 you wouldn't want to put so much distance between the 8 and 11

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Agreed; but there are even better safety options, as I'll show in my follow-up video that I should be able to post by tomorrow.

[@tomtom2052]

So it's not a foul that you put the wrong ball in first? I always thought if your ball goes in first its a legal shot and if ur opponents ball goes in first its a foul

[@DrDaveBilliards]

All that matters is hitting your ball first and sinking it in the called pocket. Anything else that happens in immaterial. If you or others want to see a concise summaries of the official rules of pool, they are available here: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/ The problem is that casual players often play under "bar rules" which are not always well defined.

[@menatwork7681]

Nice presentation....

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. Check out the follow-up videos also. They are linked in the video description.

[@robertschaeffer5861]

Oh man super thanks

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@REDDEVILSCORPION1987]

What cue do u use ?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

REDDEVILSCORPION1987 Predator P2 with 12.4 Revo.

[@andrew_owens7680]

I would hit a very light billiard to keep the 8 stuck to the other ball. Straight rail billiards players can do those shots all day long.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

How does that improve the situation for you? Check out the follow-up videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGeZaGVuZ958mNk

[@kisuke80]

Is it not a foul? Because you pot a opponent ball at the same time which is foul. But the last one is legal pot though.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

... not under the WPA and BCA "official rules of pool."

[@whoamifoo9075]

3:40 is the right shot.

[@MizunoIronMan]

Basically you can do anything with ridiculous American oversize pockets that swallow up the ball even when it’s not the perfect potting angle . Try any of these on a U.K pub table , real pool .

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Regardless of the table, the offensive shots in this video are reckless at best. See my follow-up video for more info: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2WZqZqDlJpqb5Y