What you should consider before becoming an Army Pilot - the negative aspects of Army Aviation.

[@Delatta1961]

I spent 21 years as an Army Aviator, retiring as a CW4, UH-60 SP/IE. The lack of training time for proficiency has always been a problem. Command looks at $$/currency vs proficiency. $$ means budgeting funds per flying hour, and usually non-Aviator O-6s and above decide how much money (Hours) your unit gets. I remember our budget was cut by a Division Commander so the CIF could purchase maturity BDUs. Tell me how you’d react to that kind of situation. Good luck seeing a fix during your career.

[@scud-runner]

Haha oh man. I believe it. I guess I would make the best of a less than ideal situation just like we are currently doing haha. I feel another issue is our aviation CDRs at BN and higher are not really pushing back on a lot of things they should push back on. And maybe they are because that is above my level but it certainly doesn’t feel like it. If they were I feel like a lot of the dumb shit we cancel fight training for would not happen as often as it does.

[@10oner]

Being a pilot in the army is a lot more like being in the army than it is being a pilot

[@scud-runner]

Some days it definitely feels that way.

[@johncollins6891]

You hit the nail on the head. As a retired Army Aviator that retired a CW5 at 29 years of active service, it seems nothing has changed. I have been retired now almost 12 years and all the things @scud-runner mentions are true. It was true in the 80s, 90s, 20, and seems to still be true now. It is difficult to get new aviators to understand they are Soldiers first, Warrant Officers second, and Aviators last. Army priorities at all levels will almost always trump aviation priorities until aviation priorities becomes army priorities, i.e., war, natural disaster, or other such occurrences that require aviation assets in abundance. I always told people there was too much army in army aviation. If you have difficulty accepting being a Soldier and all that is associated with that, then army aviation is probably not for you. The army hired you to fly a weapons system, and not so you can build the skills to one day leave and become an airline pilot. Not saying that can't or doesn't happen (it does) but it certainly isn't the army's priority even though it may be yours. Generally you will always get your required minimums for your FAC level. It will never seem like enough, but hang in there. With flight time and training it's always "feast or famine". Eventually, most of you will track instructor pilot and you will fly so much training all the new guys you will get burned out. It is a rewarding career but to be honest you have to drink the cool-aid (to coin a phrase) and be a part of the team if you ever want a seat at the table and the ability to influence and advise commanders on aviation operations. Physical Training, change of command ceremonies, weapons qualifications, ruck marches, etc., will always seem like a distraction, but it is the life of a U.S. Army Soldier. Hold you head high, be proud of your Army Aviator wings and keep pushing forward. You'll get to where you are trying to go eventually. Never quit.

[@BestBBLinHistory]

@@johncollins6891what if you join the national guard rather than being active duty? Do you know if it’s the same way there?

[@Blackcloud_Garage]

When I was in I felt like flying was second to all the other garrison/admin BS. All the stuff you mentioned plus getting ready for ARMS inspection. I didn't fly for two weeks because I had to go to HAZMAT school all because the CO needed to check that box for the inspection. Everything takes priority over the flight schedule.

[@scud-runner]

Yep 100%. It’s extremely frustrating to see stuff like that happen. Dog and pony shows and making boxes green on a power point slide are more of a priority to higher than training in our aircraft and being better aviators. The only time being a good aviator is important is after an accident. And then you get the same speech of how can we do better. And everyone knows the answer to that but it never seems to get in the heads of people who have the power to make change.

[@drew8979]

A guy I served with did a four year enlistment and utilized his post 9/11 gi bill for flight school to fly helicopters. 10 years is nuts for that kind of commitment.

[@scud-runner]

Not a bad idea. The hardest part is acquiring enough hours to get a solid job.

[@td9057]

The post 9/11 gi bill is eligible troops after 3 years, so that means he would have applied on the 4th year of his service for possibly the next academic year. Altogether, that's 8 years right there.

[@huskyaonecee7568]

You're doing an outstanding job with these videos! Keep producing them and Rock on!

[@scud-runner]

Thanks brother! Appreciate the support.

[@codygreene9067]

I was an infantry paratrooper for seven years. During my time jumping from aircraft I got really interested in them and I wanted to fly them. I got out to pursue my helicopter license and after a couple years at it I decided I wouldn’t mind going back in to fly for the Army. This is where things got complicated for me. Every recruiter I talk to about WOFT would tell me they would get back to me and then would ghost me. My guess behind their reasoning is that building a WOFT packet and waiting out the application process isn’t as productive when they could spend that time putting in a bunch of kids into entry level enlisted roles. LORs are ridiculous because of how long it takes to get the time of day from some of these busy warrants, I talked to every officer I knew when I was in to see if maybe they knew someone who branched aviation to become a pilot just to get these damn LORs. I have flight hours through my civilian flight school, I have a 110GT, I haven’t even been provided an opportunity to take the SIFT because the recruiters won’t even acknowledge me after I mention WOFT. Plus a ten year minimum service obligation? The Army is only going to continue to make their pilot shortage worse.

[@scud-runner]

Man I’m sorry to hear you’ve been having trouble. I’ve heard many people who try to go to flight school either street to seat or after separation struggle getting the contract. It comes down to just finding to right recruiter and constantly following up with them. Keep trying man. Retention is shit right now in aviation so you are bond to eventually get it.

[@codygreene9067]

I appreciate the encouragement. The timing is funny because I know I just wrote this comment but I found a recruiter who claims he’s going to help me with the WOFT packet. Which is more than I can say for the last three recruiters.

[@claysoggyfries]

I'm so glad I have an aviation MOS. It makes it less of a headache to deal with some of the prerequisites. The 10 year minimum is awful though and I hope they change it

[@WilldaBear]

Hope you've progessed since posting but what worked for me was I just called the Education Centers at the bases in my general area and asked if they conducted the SIFT, even if it was a long drive away. All I had to do was call and I was scheduled. I think all of the things on the packet I had to find and complete by myself, especially finding a flight surgeon's office and getting the physical out of the way. All the recruiter has done for me was just compile everything and submit them to the board.

[@dustintaber]

Thank you for this video. It’s really making me reconsider just going the civilian route.

[@scud-runner]

Glad to hear you found the video informative. Thanks for the support and good luck on whatever route you choose.

[@evantalbott8602]

Selfishly I wish these videos were longer because I really enjoy them lol. I’m getting out of the usmc and heading to WOCs in august and hopefully flight school soon after. I really appreciate the content you put out especially when you talk about life as an aviator after flight school. Im curious about the different types of units that an aviator could find themselves in and I understand that it’s airframe dependent. Maybe you could touch more on that subject in the future? Thank you!

[@10oner]

Just go be a civilian pilot and get paid way more to fly way more and deal with way less bullshit

[@evantalbott8602]

Lol too late for me. I’m already over 8 years in service with the training and 10 year service obligation it will put me around 20 years retirement 🤷‍♂️

[@scud-runner]

Congratulations and good luck. Thanks for the kind words and I’m happy to hear that. That is a great idea. I could definitely produce a video covering this topic in the future. Thanks for the recommendation.

[@10oner]

@@evantalbott8602 i got out at 9 years and ive been a civilian pilot for 3 now. It was the right descision

[@samuelcook7179]

Moved from USMCR Aviation Ordnance to WOC in 1985 & Retired from USAR as CW3. Class 86-5 Navy Blue Hats. I felt the Marine discipline prepared me well for Flight School, best move I made. Study cramming tip! Buy student study guides at the Hanger Aviator Shop in Daleville. Also the new Army PT test is different from USMC. Semper Fi.

[@paulprigge1209]

What question is if you want the warrant officer route would you Fly more and do less paperwork? Rather than being coming officer. By the way I just discovered your channel this afternoon September 21 of 2023. Pretty good. Stay with it you will pick up a lot of subscribers.

[@scud-runner]

Yes, definitely less paperwork and more flying as a warrant. The paperwork may increase over time once you track but you will definitely fly more as a warrant.. Also thank you! I definitely will and thanks for the support.

[@Recklessness97]

I was contemplating a military flying contract then going airlines but I'm 26 with an associate degree. Two more years to get my bachelors to become an officer would put me at 29 (early bday). Marine Corps cut off for aviation is 28. Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard is extremely competitive to get a pilot slot especially if over the age 28 because I've heard a rumor they like to see post baccalaureate degrees to be a competitive packet at that age in addition to the required letters of recommendations which would be hard to get because I don't come from a military family or background. Army is cool but they don't fly fixed wing which is what I'm interested in. The biggest put off is the contract requirement. Was honestly only looking at military because it's stupid expensive to get flight training to the airline level in the civilian world ($80K-$120K) but it looks like I may have to go that route.

[@WillieBrownsWeiner]

You don't need a bachelor degree to fly in the Army as a Warrant Officer

[@Recklessness97]

@@WillieBrownsWeiner I'm aware. I was in a rather lengthy way alluding to that Army would be my only real option left but they don't fly fixed wing thus I'm probably better off going airline the civilian way and just cough up a lot of money.

[@scud-runner]

Yeah the free flight school definitely makes joining the military a sweet deal. The Army does fly C12s but there are only a few slots per class. But even if you get helicopters you will still qualify for the restricted ATP being a military flight school grad which makes it easier to go to the airlines. The only bad thing is the 10 year ADSO.

[@ilyasabirov7224]

​@@scud-runnerdoes national guard reserve still requires it?😅

[@benbrown8147]

I graduated flight school in September 1970, earned a CH-47 transition upon graduation, and was in Vietnam in late December 1970. I flew 890 hours in Chinooks and could have gotten 1000 hours except for a week as an LNO, a week of R&R and a DEROS of three weeks early due to the drawdown in Vietnam. I went to Ft Hood and got nearly monthly minimums and nothing else, and I hated it. Luckily I got a job as an Instrument Instructor and Nap-of-the Earth Instructor and flew several hours each day. I stayed at Ft Hood for 3 1/2 years and got out with just over 2,200 total hours. Without the Instructor jobs I would have gotten out earlier with maybe 1,200 hours. War sours you as an Army Aviator because you can't stay there forever, and flying without a war sucks.

[@scud-runner]

Wow 890 hours in one tour is incredible. That’s right on par with what I’ve read from books in Vietnam. You guys flew an unbelievable amount. Thank you for your service. Army aviation is currently seeing a huge bleed off of experience. We currently only have two 1,000 hour pilots in our company. When I got here two years ago we had 1-2 per platoon and even a handful on 2,000 hour pilots. We are very inexperienced currently but more reason to train and fly to make up for that experience gap.

[@Czarcastic]

When flying rotary wings, is the Army generally good at letting the crew get to know each other? Let's say hypothetically you're the pilot for example; would you expect to keep the same CPG and/or crew chief flying with you for a while? Or is your crew something that changes out often?

[@scud-runner]

Routine training flights at home station the crews are randomly assigned based mostly on who is available. But when you deploy or go to a training exercise crews will be assigned and you will fly with your assigned crew almost every flight. I recently went to NTC and there I flew with the same crew chief, flight medic, and PC everyday. But at home station like I said it’s random.

[@FELiPES101]

The biggest draw for the army was the 6 year commitment + no bad airframes...they are going to have a major issue moving forward. Air force busted my balls for 2-3years (26-29yo) kicking the can down the road. Nobody wanted to help the guy that wanted to be a pilot even though I have all the quals. I looked at army as a plan B, but now that its just as long as the air force and would be getting paid less as a WO I have major reserves. I would have to spend the rest of my "youth" in full-time big army and only get a chance to break away for something like reserves or guard at ~40 missing a lot of opportunity in other aspects of life (I'm a single guy). If so many people even withing army aviation are questioning the decision to go to 10 year adso it's obviously the wrong move.

[@scud-runner]

Yeah I definitely agree. Shifting to a 10 year ADSO was a terrible idea and I think the Army is starting to feel the effects of it.

[@TomP-148]

The closer and closer i get to submitting my packet for this month the more videos i get recommended why not to do it..

[@scud-runner]

I encourage you to check out my video titled "Why You Should Consider Becoming an Army Pilot." This video will provide a comprehensive perspective to assist you in making an informed decision. I'm content with my choice, but ultimately, the decision is yours to make. Best of luck on your journey!

[@paulprigge1209]

Something else to consider that many have done is the guard route. I’m thinking of the Ohio Flying Farmer Who has a KZbin. Others have gone the route of the guard or reserve. Just a disabled country boy who was once a weekend warrior who spends a lot of time on KZbin Paying attention to what’s going on.

[@0HORNMASTER0]

7500/month take home

[@rhysgoodman7628]

I’ve already put in a strong street-to-seat WOFT packet (six LORs, 70 SIFT score, etc) straight out of high school, and my biggest question is how much time are you actually “at work” when you’re not flying? Is it, generally, a case of “if you’re not flying, you’re not working”?

[@scud-runner]

Congrats, that sounds like an impressive packet and even more impressive at such a young age. That's awesome. As a brand new warrant, your sole focus will be progression when you show up to your unit. You will be expected to study your ass off and fly your progression flights. The only other responsibility you will have is most likely managing the fridge fund. Pretty much making sure the fridge is stocked full at all times and making sure you have a good supply to replenish your stock. I have seen new warrants get more responsibility, but it's not preferred, and commanders try to avoid it. After progression, you will fly missions or training flights, and you will get more duties. These duties can range from goggle custodian to UMO to managing the flight schedule meeting. So when you aren't flying you are doing things for your additional responsibilities. There are also "battle rhythm events" that happen weekly. An example of this would be "rotor stables." This is where you go out to helicopters and get on the APU to load COMSEC and check systems in the helicopter. I can go on about this, but I should create a video covering this topic. But to answer your question, you don't just come to work only on the days you fly. You will be expected to do more than that. Are there some warrants that only come in on days they fly? Yes, and they are bad examples of warrant officers, and everyone in the unit has to pick up their slack and work hard because of these guys. So be a team player and don't be like them lol. Good luck, bro.

[@v8fiend]

Thank you for the two videos sir

[@scud-runner]

Glad you like them!

[@reaperboy36]

Great video Scudrunner. Being away from home sucks, but sacrifice mirrors success. Once you hit basic, does anyone offer housing solutions for family during that time being or is it offered after Basic/AIT? Large process but one that is rewarding in the end.

[@scud-runner]

Thanks. Yes once you graduate basic you will head to Fort Novosel and you can either get on base housing there or a place off post and receive housing allowance.

[@hewcarroll]

I just submitted my packet for WOFT and my recruiter said I should get BAH while in basic since I'm married with kids. We'll see if that pans out if the board selects me in a couple months.

[@Drumsetkid517]

Hey Sir, love your videos! You giving all the info the recruiters don’t really give you. I have a quick question, you’re speaking from an Active Duty perspective correct? Do you know how it works with the NG component? I’m dropping my packet after I get back from deployment, and I can’t seem to get answer from anyone regarding what I can do with post flight school hours with regards to getting your PPL. Thanks!

[@scud-runner]

Glad to hear you like the channel. That’s awesome and good luck. I plan to do a video on the guard however I need to gather more information. There are similarities with the guard and reserve but there are a few differences that I need to better understand. That way you guys get the best info. What do you mean post flight school hours with PPL? When you get out of flight school you only require 30 hours for a PPL instead of 40 and you don’t have to do a written exam. Does that answer your question or were you asking something else?

[@jerrylowenstein1899]

Good comparison

[@seabassgt7998]

hoping to go warrant after i make e5 and go to airborne school after deployment. already got my civilian ratings bout to start liberty to try to get a bs in aviation

[@scud-runner]

That’s outstanding congratulations. I wish you the best of luck. Reach out if you have any questions.

[@Jo_Madre]

With a 10 year ADSO, is one able to retire their commission and finish their time as a Warrant?

[@scud-runner]

You can but it’s on a case by case basis. There was a recent MILPER message that came out allowing commissioned officers to revert to warrant. So it’s possible but it’s at the Army’s discretion based on what they need.

[@khahariball4946]

Is flying jets n airplane is it hard im interested but im scared to fly but im not afraid of heights

[@scud-runner]

It’s challenging because you are always learning. You definitely have to have a passion for it.

[@FELiPES101]

$1000 in private aviation training covers your learning materials and paying your dpe checkride fee lmao

[@pay10svarietyshow63]

Are you a warrant officer or commissioned officer. Warrant is more helicopter focused as opposed to commissioned right?

[@scud-runner]

I’m a commissioned officer. We fly but we are the managers of the Army. Warrants do fly more over the course of their careers.

[@hx1234]

personally, if I was going to military aviation, I would choose not get married until I get out.

[@jovanni_orb5116]

I am having trouble deciding warrant or commission officer?

[@scud-runner]

Depends what you want to focus your career on. If you really like managing the overall operation and organization of a unit then commissioned officer is the route you should pursue. Understand that you will fly less once you become a field grade (Major and higher). If management isn’t as important to you and you’d rather focus on flying then warrant officer is the route for you.

[@jovanni_orb5116]

@@scud-runner thank you

[@rugerdern1554]

Don't warrant officers fly more than officers?

[@scud-runner]

In the long term yes. When you get out of flight school RLOs and warrant fly about the same. However, long term RLOs move on to other things such as staff or command and they tend to fly less in these jobs. Warrants will go on to track schools and fly even more. So yes long term warrants do fly more.

[@KGSpradleyAuthor]

There is less and less reason to come in with the 10 year ADSO. The other services treat you so much better.

[@scud-runner]

Based on what I hear that is true. I don’t know for sure because my experience is limited to the Army. It’s definitely the rough end of aviation. I am glad I took the route I did and I don’t regret it but I am also glad I am on the 6 year ADSO 😂

[@cra139]

Are there training departments in army squadrons?

[@scud-runner]

I’m not sure if I understand the question. Can you give me an example?

[@cra139]

Navy squadrons have different departments like training, operations, safety, etc. Training and OPs would check pilot currencies to make sure they're flying for certain period of time. I.e at least 2 hours of night within 45 days to be considered night current, just to name an example. Not sure if Army does something similar @@scud-runner

[@scud-runner]

Yes, they do. Each company has a stands office with instructor pilots (IPs) and these are the guys that give you annual check rides, proficiency exams, and conduct progressions on new pilots.

[@no__name3747]

These problems even for warrants ?

[@scud-runner]

Yes these are issues for everyone in Army aviation.

[@no__name3747]

@@scud-runner How many hours a year would a warrant get? Do you fly more in the army versus the Navy for example?

[@scud-runner]

I'm not sure how much Navy pilots fly but FAC 1 minimums in the Army are 96 hours a year. That is what you must fly each year to be considered current. I would say a solid year at a unit for an untracked pilot in the Army is about 130-160. That is pretty solid. If you get more than that that’s an outstanding year. Once you track you will fly more hours than that especially if you are an instructor pilot.

[@louisilapan9804]

NTC

[@kamikazi99]

Hahaha