PETROL vs DIESEL (vs ELECTRIC CAR!) - which is REALLY cheaper? | What Car?

[@henri7359]

Been driving my VW diesel since 2007, 400 000km plus. I have been lucky with very few repairs. Still driving it today 17 years later. 16km/L in town, up to 20km/L on highway. Show me what is more environmentally friendly than that. People changing their cars often is the real issue, not the energy it consumes. Manufacturers won't want this!

[@robgraham9234]

Pretty much anything is more environmentally friendly than a diesel car. You may have marginally lower co2 emissions but your nox emissions are about 200x higher than petrol. Nox is also a green house gas. Pollution from diesel vehicles causes 90% of the air pollution in London and around 6000 extra deaths a year. Buying a car new(ish) and keeping it for as long as possible is a good idea though.

[@milinddixit6583]

I guess the "immediate" air quality benefit of everyone switching to EVs is the point of it. But agree that the manufacturering of new cars and scrapping of old ones is "overall" worse for emissions than what comes out the tailpipe. And the fact that a diesel can still do pretty much the same range and economy 17 years later, but an EV - unless you change the batteries - will definitely have a much worse range than when it was 3 years old...which will lead to more of them being scrapped instead of being resold as old used cars.

[@farmerned6]

@@milinddixit6583 ODDLY its funny how C02/Nox/Particulates became the threat Benzine seems to have been forgotten , and petrol produces more hydrocarbons Can't commit suicide on diesel exhaust fumes - can on petrol , but keep try to convince me the diesels are killing 6000 more people than stabby immigrants On top diesel USES LESS FUEL per mile , SAFER to store than Petrol, Lasts longer than a petrol or an EV, Can be recyled , Over its LIFETIME a diesel engine is cleaner BUT - 100% Milkfloats should be preferred in cities/large towns, but EV replacing large Vans and HGVs for all day commercial use is a pipedream

[@bn880]

fuck VW

[@Gazzxy]

​@@robgraham9234 GDI petrols emit a fair heft more particualte and nox than moden diesels do (pre emissions sure, but wernt many gdis back then), so much they likely use a special test car to scrape them into euro6 class. just a shame despite having the tech to deal with it, manufacturers gona wait till euro7 forces them to fit it to new cars.

[@christopherroughton]

I have had many cars, fast, slow, big engines, small, classic cars.... I am currently driving a temporary banger - 2006 206cc 2.0 petrol. Easily gets 48mpg on the motorway. It will need upgrading soon of course, but I can't help but feel, the constant need for everyone to have their cars upgraded - the manufacturing and recycling/scrappage alone of the huge turnover of cars is worse for the environment than my little 206 2.0... I could be wrong but that's why I don't feel guilty at all right now.

[@welshlad6427]

Don’t ever feel guilty or you’ll turn into a snowflake ❄️

[@lankyboy90]

There'll always be a market for secondhand cars, always. But with the majority of "young professionals" opting for new lease or pcp deals every 3 years it does make you wonder. I got a 2018 Mondeo on PCP brand new, but decided at the end to buy it outright. But then, cars aren't necessarily made on demand. So by not buying another new one, you're not stopping that new car from being made...if you see what i mean!

[@alastair4839]

Completely with you on this one - I have never bought a new car, not even close to new. Currently I have a little 2011 Chev Petrol, great for local/short journeys, just bought a Volvo V70 2.0D 2009 - for longer commutes/family - and a 1999 Diesel Bongo Camper - all great at what they do, all still in really nice condition (does take some work to find them in good condition). But I kind of feel one mans junk is another's treasure when it comes to cars And so the ULEZ policies seems to be a tax on people who aren't into the "throw away" or "upgrade" culture - same for phones and computers

[@welshlad6427]

@@alastair4839 they’re not bringing in ULEZ for my mobile phone now are they. I’m In trouble with my Nokia 3310 if they are 🥹

[@treeoflifeenterprises]

as far as i understand the emissions during manufacture exceeds the emissions during usage for the life of the vehicle, so regardless of the running emissions, it is always better for the environment to run cars as long as possible.running my 10yr old diesel is better than having 2 of the most effecient and clean electric cars for 5 years each, by a factor of 2. The only way LEZ get away with it is because the manufacture emissions are at the factory and the mines often in other countries, and steel and plastic and rubber plants making the materials, rather than in the towns. keeping old stuff running is much better for the environment.

[@The1977andi]

Best way forward would be to let everyone decide what car works best for them without being forced down one route

[@AnalystPrime]

No it is not because idiots deliberately pick whichever car spews darkest smoke just so they can "stick it" to people who would like to live without lung cancer. Also, if they didn't use a gallon of fuel per mile the oil companies might lose profits. Think of the poor oil companies!

[@striker1258]

Well whatever everyone thinks down the line everyone will be forced to electrics whether you like it or not.

[@Twmpa]

I am sure no-one would mind so much being forced towards a particular technology if the technology on offer wasn't as hugely flawed as EVs are.

[@SnazzBot]

They should never have band leaded.

[@timmot123]

well, thats exactly what you can do for the next decade at least

[@stoissdk]

These days I look more at the purchase price, maintenance cost, repairs, insurance, taxes, fees, depreciation. The cost of fuel or electricity, is a fair bit down the list.

[@leondeblaauw2082]

until you got to change the motors and battery

[@leondeblaauw2082]

electric cars are the ideal leas option

[@stevehayward1854]

@@leondeblaauw2082 Why would you change the motor or battery as they outlast the car, Nissan has found, by 10 -20 years going on to a second life in battery/grid storage. Dont listen to that Big Oil propaganda, I have been driving EV's for many years and have never had a battery problem or even witnessed one in the 10 years I have been driving EV's. No maintenance cost, no repairs, insurance is similar to my last petrol, tax is £0.00 and as I keep my cars for very long time, I dont have an issue with depreciation and as I have solar panels on my roof, I have no fuel costs either. The only problem I have had with any of my EV's was 12v Lead acid battery die in my old Nissan Leaf EV, but all cars have problems with those, luckily Tesla's no longer use them. You cant stop progress, one day you will see the sense of EV

[@stephensharp975]

@@leondeblaauw2082 and when would that be? my old 2015 model s is at 90% battery capacity at 230,000kms, same motors, brake pads, no regular servicing, free charging.

[@nathansuss]

​@@stephensharp975 Nice!

[@jimmyhughes5392]

for everyday driving you cannot beat a diesel, be it city driving, motorway driving or cruising the hilly B roads, diesel is superior. low end torque and just stronger and more hard wearing parts all round, even if it was slightly more expensive it would still be worth it.

[@mikadavies660]

Which is EXACTLY why I run a £1,500 old diesel for the very long journeys and a BEV (charged at home) for all journeys within 100 miles from my home. My BEV cost £25/mth in electric.

[@whichwasher2007]

That's the only problem. An electric car. Carnt be a All rounder car. But it's good to point out that how often do the vast majority of people do more than 100 mile in 1 day. Alot don't even do 100 mile in a week.

[@pavel_endrle]

And imagine you would not spent the money (+running costs, etc.) on that EV and just driving old diesel everywhere for it. :)

[@mikadavies660]

@pavel_endrle No... different usage. My wife needs local and up to 10,000/yr. I need very long trips as I live in Essex and work Scotland, Midlands, South West and London.... but London is on a motorcycle not the diesel.

[@mikadavies660]

@@whichwasher2007 True... like my wife 150 miles a week whilst I do anything from 50 to 300 depending upon the construction site that I'm on.

[@whichwasher2007]

@mikadavies660 that's perfect sense. Is the old diesel a old VAG with a PD engine in? Also if your wife is driving constantly at less than 30mph. An EV makes even more sense. I myself will get a old EV at some point once I have my own driveway. But I'm a proper petrol head.

[@naferemix]

I got good mpg out of my petrol, about 48-50, but I get well over 60 in my diesel, and unless diesel costs over 20% more than petrol, which it doesn’t, it should be pretty simple maths. Plus the diesel is the same on insurance, it’s more powerful, and the torque is nearly 300nm, vs 160 in my last petrol. I really don’t see why diesel isn’t more popular. Since when does the average driver care about an emissions scandal rather than cost?

[@AjG007]

Diesel fuel used to always be cheaper than petrol in the UK. The UK government increased the tax revenue on diesel fuel to make diesel cars less popular!!

[@Tom55data]

​@@AjG007no, North Sea oil is light grade suitable for petrol, but cannot be used for much diesel. Most refined diesel came from Russia until the war, so diesel prices increases more than petrol. UK has refining capacity for petrol. Of course fuels are traded on international markets, but imports cost more.

[@trevorberridge6079]

International Law cares about diesel and the toxic emissions that car companies have been lying about for decades.

[@burnttoast9890]

Ever heard of diesel gate ? It's hard to make diesel combust as clean as petrol

[@teabagtowers3823]

​@@burnttoast9890 Yeah that was 10 years ago most diesel engines these days are incredibly efficient. That in terms of combustion emissions very low.

[@simplygregsterev]

The price of rapid charging in the UK for the most part is really expensive. It always gets me

[@CarsofGlasgow]

it is! I think I was 65p per kw last time I used Instavolt

[@mikegipson1224]

Not in a Tesla at a supercharger...

[@simplygregsterev]

@@mikegipson1224 I agree 60p max in most locations. In Scotland I was paying 35-50p per kWh at the fort William supercharger. I’ve used Shell recharge and gridserve which shell being around 80-90p

[@timsbird1971]

This is why over 92% of EV charging is done at home. They should be seen as as an emergency backup.

[@glenpywell8769]

​@@timsbird1971Unless you're having to do long journeys then it's inevitable you'll need to charge. If you can get a space at some services (Skelton Lake in Leeds has had a queue a good few times I've been there). Plus you'll lose a third of your range in winter too. Also you need to be able to have a driveway/off-road parking to charge. And a charger will cost around £1000 (I have one for my PHEV). And electric cars tend to be more expensive. They're a perk for the wealthy - for those that have the right circumstances and money.

[@rekord1969]

I feel to make a real comparison they should have compared it to a non Tesla brand SUV EV that actually costs £40k, charged it at a regular charging station and factored in the cost putting it in the bin after 7-8 years. That would be a closer reality for an electric car. 50% of people in the UK cannot charge a car at home and even less can afford to actually buy one. 60% of EV’s are company cars only bought to save tax.

[@kennyg4744]

One thing to consider is that the 1.2 3 cylinder petrol engine in that car, which is shared across many Stellantis group vehicles, will be trashed before 60,000 miles. I have seen hundreds in BCA, Manheim, Aston Barclay with "excessively noisy engine" listed on the mechanical reports. Even some with under 30,000 miles.

[@lmpoopingpigeon]

not even mentioning that is also produce less power.

[@musguelha14]

Yup. The marvellous wet timing belt that likes to shred itself apart and clog up your oil pickup. Genius design.

[@lvpvsmalvm522]

Exactly, that tiny little engine will get completely over worked. So yes it’s more efficient than a 2.5 but will last no where near as long as

[@musguelha14]

@@lvpvsmalvm522 it's nothing to do with that, small engines can and will do mega miles, it's just that particular 1.2 that's poorly engineered.

[@johnbuxton6009]

Vauxhall made a 3 cylinder engine for the corser. What a lump of junk

[@simonreeves2017]

Hi Guys, greetings from Oxford. I’m 58, I’ve owned 14 cars in my time and do much of my own maintenance. Modern diesels can be a nightmare to own if your usage is not appropriate. This is due to the (mandatory) anti-pollution technology. EGR and DPF components will clog up quite quickly when used for short cold journeys leading to explosive repairs. Only buy a modern diesel if you do regular long journeys. As for my current car, I bought a BMW i3 in 2019; fully electric. No regrets at all, I’ve only used public charging 5 times in 40k miles, charging at home on cheap overnight electricity, costing me about £1.50 per session; about 25% to 90% charge and a range of 120 miles in the winter, 160 miles in the summer. In addition I have never had the i3 serviced. Even BMW will only bleed the brakes and change the cabin filter for a service, both are not really necessary at 2 year intervals. 5 years, then yes.

[@cingramuk]

Agreed. A word of warning, you might want to get it serviced by a specialist like Cleevely, so that they can grease the brakes (if you dont do it yourself). EVs are terrible for binding brakes which can lead to premature wear and/or corrosion and replacement of discs if not careful. Not always a problem but I get Cleevely to do my Zoe servicing just in case. Main dealers are a rip off and pointless.

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

You are completely right. I would add that modern petrol cars are still going to have more issues with short runs than the old port-injected cars of the 90s and 00s.

[@UserUser-vo2ky]

This I why I run a diesel jeep wranglers, on my 3rd now. Nothing to dislike, ultra reliable, relatively easy to work on, they last forever too

[@filmboy18]

Your points are valid but you shouldn't be getting a car if your journey isn't long enough that the car doesn't fully heat up. Also, my dad used to hold his diesel at a high idle around 3.5-4 thousand rpm for about five minutes once every other week and never had a single problem. That was sufficient to get the dpf to regen.

[@LucasGerrijts]

@@UserUser-vo2ky If they last forever, why are you then on your 3rd? :)

[@bernardsmith152]

What this has demonstrated to me is :- a large proportion of drivers buy and drive second hand cars , as diesel cars residual values have fallen below petrol, it makes sense to buy a used / newish / ulez complaint car, for the best fuel economy. / price per mile.

[@lint8391]

Or if you can (mostly) stay out of London, an older diesel car makes a lot of sense. EG Volvo with the D5 engine or BMW with 6 cylinder diesel. However, for a teenager that's just passed their test, a noddy little petrol engined hatchback makes a lot of sense because of insurance costs.

[@CheapskateMotorsports]

The thing that loads of people seem to forget in these comparisons is that driveway charging is a privilege and not accessible to the majority. Most of us don't even have access to an owned driveway, and not many have a driveway which can actually be used for charging (yet). The price for these comparisons, therefore, should be the public charging point price by default. I'm glad you guys included that because it makes the data more relevant in real life.

[@RichardASK]

Exactly. You fill up the ICE vehicles at public fuel stations, so the same should also be done with a battery car.

[@1987LOZ1987]

I thought 60% of people had access to a driveway (so the majority) and 75% of people have access to off-street parking? We went with plugin hybrid (3008) as we can charge it at home and day to day we only need electric. On longer journeys (weekends/abroad) its hybrid, so we don't have to charge it if we don't want to. The 3008 hybrid4 has 300bhp, so it's certainly not sluggish either.

[@binitbob]

I have no driveway, live mid-terrace and still manage to charge at home. I upped my insurance for PL cover and have hi-vis low profile cable cover and signage on the cables at the car end, under an overhead light. A bit of planning and it can be done. I've had a problem for 3 days in the last 3 months where I've not been able to charge and another car parked outside the house and that just meant 15 mins at a supercharger in the morning to ensure enough charge to get me home on the 2nd day (120 miles of range). Okay this isn't possible for everyone but it is possible. Oh and if you get a Tesla the charger can be converted for £40 to make it 7.6kW capable. You just need a 32A commando socket on a switchable socket with RCD on its own 40A MCB. A decent electrician can put that in for a couple of £'00. Or if you know what you are doing 2 hours and £100 in parts. Just get a sparkie to sign it off when you are done.

[@unclegeorge7845]

Or put a gas station in every house. You're getting screwed on your charging rates because your still fossil fuel electricity generation depend.

[@robi4387]

Yes, according to Harry Metcalfe only 44% can home charge. Politicians are not renowned for mathematical ability beyond their chances next election.

[@Salty3439]

Diesel is the winner 🏆🏆, you're welcome, I saved you time 😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@chrismayer3919]

Something horrid just occurred to me; imagine having a Diesel, but you forgot it’s a Diesel… and mistakenly top it with petrol instead! 😲

[@skuripandaburns3489]

​@@chrismayer3919 imagine having a Tesla but you forget it's electric and you top it off with diesel instead. What kind of silly scenario are you cooking up? A diesel owner knows he's driving a diesel and will top it up correctly. If you fail at that, you should have your license revoked.

[@Homingjoeyjr]

@@chrismayer3919 then your just dumb

[@pilotvlog]

@@chrismayer3919Same thing can happen to petrol as well it really isn't a downside

[@2777dave]

​@chrismayer3919 my son in law just did that very thing. All fixed now!

[@billstuart-bruges4590]

New diesel cars can have Adblue catalysts which remove nearly all NOx emissions. They also produce far less CO2 per mile than petrol, and their engines last longer.

[@clwydian1]

When looking at the overall cost, it would be good to include the ever increasing insurance costs and car tax as well as the purchase and PCP costs to get a full comparison.

[@LoremIpsum1970]

It would have been good to compare the cost of the Model Y as well, don't you think? New on AutoTrader, Model Y is between 46 and 61k depending on spec, so roughly 7k more than the diesel for the base model...all that's almost 470 daily Congestion Charges in London...🤔

[@johnmoncrieff3034]

The other factor to consider is the size and amount of stress on the engine in the vehicle! This trend to have very small highly stressed engines in large & heavy bodies may be able to give good but not great fuel economy the chances of the engine lasting has dropped from approx.200k down to well under 100k! These are not formula one engines that last a matter of a few hundred miles before they are stripped and rebuilt with new internals, they are supposed to last the life of he vehicle, but there is proof that they are worn out in a matter of a few years. All due to the stress the components are subjected to! The same fuel economy is achievable with large capacity low stress engines if the size and shape of the ports, heads and cams are properly designed for efficiency!

[@andys5841]

How refreshing to see a video on comparing the three honestly and not missing out things that don't confirm the bias of the reporter. Well done.

[@USUG0]

.... never mind, the model Y did 123 mpg equiv. on motorway, and 91 mpg equiv. in the city (which doesn't make any sense), including 10% charging losses. In city driving during winter the model Y should average at least 3.6miles/kWh or 131 mpg equiv....

[@AdrianMcDaid]

Most ev drivers charge at night, overnight rate.

[@paul_london]

they massively undervalues EV cost, the real price is 0.79p per kwh. The entire trip is twice as expensive as diesel car!

[@luketurnbull3712]

@@paul_london No it's not - it's 7.5p per kwh for at least 95% of the charging that is done in real life. For the vast majority of users, there is no need at all for public charging.

[@paul_london]

​@@luketurnbull3712 you probably live in a house. For people living in flats, the min charge cost is 29p. For any long road trip you'll end up charging on public chargers 100%

[@wayneoxborough351]

I bought an old style Leaf for commuting to work, and charge it at home. It's by far the cheapest car I've ever owned after 5 yesrs taking into account 'fuel',, charging at home most of the time reduced taxes, cheaper parking rate, next to no maintenance cost. Insurance is about the same as an equivalent hatchback. It all depends on the your personal situation

[@nigeltrueman6101]

You do however have the embarrassment of driving a Nissan leaf

[@nmeister67]

I was all fired up, about to start a cheap nightly tarrif and get a 4ish year old Leaf for comuting. Then covid happened and have worked from home ever since 😐 Buying an older EV, is surely the cheapest motoring around, just like running an old, well maintained ICE car is when compared to new equivalents.

[@nigeltrueman6101]

@@nmeister67 I won't drive such a dreadful looking car for anything. I drive a performance car enthusiastically

[@PaulWhittle-g9c]

44% of home owners cannot charge at home.

[@josephberrie9550]

how do electric cars get treated at MOT testing stations ??

[@JASON-rq5gl]

This comparison doesn't tell the full story of ownership, a year ago I purchased a second hand diesel toyota hilux at £25000, my friend purchased a second hand fully electric Audi 4x4 at £35000. Right now my Hilux is valued at £22000 and his Audi as is only worth £26000. My insurance is £475 his insurance is £1200. The loss of value on electric vehicles is ridiculous + the higher Insurance, I just don't see how that makes any sence and as certainly put me off buying a electric car. Also my friend as even said OK the electric Audi is lovely to drive and very quiet but he's had an expensive repair on it and the high devaluation and high insurance cost as made his vehicle far more expensive to have over the past year on half than his previous diesel Audi, and a good point he made is that in 30 years my Toyota hilux will still be in use but in 30 years it is very very unlikely the Audi will be still around unless someone is willing to pay 8 to 9 thousand for battery replacement which will be worth more than the Audi value so it's not going to be around.

[@IvanKrakow]

Truth is that old diesel or petrol car keep its price, while used, 5 years old electric car, it is almost impossible to sell it. Noone wants to buy car with exhausted battery. To me costs of electric cars, their usage is debatable. They make sense only in cities for short trips. It is and still should be time for petrol and diesel, Electric only for cities, but small Electric cars.

[@Billywoo12]

Depreciation is the highest cost (either in cash terms or linked to the HP), in many instances this makes the cost of fuel far less important. For EVs the picture is still developing.

[@zerocool801]

I have lost so much money on depreciation in my Tesla that I could drive a 3.0 petrol for years with that money.

[@harmhoeks5996]

​@@zerocool801maybe if you have a new model S/X? I don't think so for 3 and Y. Solid second-hand sellers, €25000 minimum. Used.

[@BRMCaptChaos]

"is still developing" i.e. appalling. When the current tranche of Model 3s come up for battery replacement this may come as a shock.

[@fredfred2363]

Totally agree. I don't get why no one takes that into account. You buy a car for example for £24k. Sell for £12k. Drive it 12,000 miles. That's a £ a mile without including ANY other costs. Madness.

[@tomsdaddy]

If you're a private buyer, the used EV Market is your friend. Let someone else take the depreciation hit, and just enjoy the minimal running costs ...

[@BjornV1976]

Why not do this test with a hybrid car?

[@pottacoola]

Because it would have been cheaper and they want to favour electric cars?? Who knows.

[@apassionfortangling3671]

Maybe a 14 year old Prius 👍

[@pieterrossouw8596]

This is a contest of "best of the rest" PHEVs are clearly the choice for most people. Really efficient for short trips but still able to do long range driving without the hassle. Less efficient when battery is empty because of the wait but basically like carrying an extra adult passenger - not worth worrying about.

[@1981robbo]

Toyota corrola hybrid is THE best car on the road and hybrids ARE the way forward not evs

[@Explosivo93]

@@pieterrossouw8596 PHEVs are barely more efficient, they are just as expensive in maintenance as ICE cars (sometimes even more expensive) and trade some of the fuel savings for cost in electricity. So overall they are more expensive to run than ICE or EVs

[@albertomoschin7179]

Wait what? In the UK a less refined fuel cost more then petrol? Guess the politicians really want to let you think diesel is the wrong choice

[@PippetWhippet]

No, they just know they have a captive audience with commercial vehicles which wont get produced in petrol, so the drivers have no choice but to suck up the taxes. If they tried to earn that same money from petrol cars, then petrol drivers would just migrate away over 4-5 years and the extra taxes would be gone.

[@TB-up4xi]

Skim milk (99+ fat free) & reduced fat milk (98-99% fat free) also costs more than full cream (typically 4%+) almost everywhere - and in all large commercial operations almost all of the fat is extracted from the milk upfront, some sold off for cream and cheese etc and the rest is added back in controlled amounts - all commercially prodcued milk starts off as skim and has the fat added back in to control the fat percentage - all farms produce milk with different fat content. Another example of a less refined product costing more.

[@edc1569]

Might be news to you but most of the cost of fuel isn’t the product

[@albertomoschin7179]

@@edc1569 its not new to me. But if you are ok with paying more for diesel then petrol i actually dont care

[@esabria]

You do know in the EU diesel is heavily subsidised, don't you? Also, diesel is a heavy oil?

[@martinaston1715]

Errr initial purchase price , Finance costs , depreciation ,maintenance,over 3 years old + repairs average add all this up now which is cheaper?

[@stuartsmith5308]

According to the AA, a new electric car will lose around 60% after its first three years at a mileage of 10,000 miles a year. This is something both petrol and diesel cars don't do.

[@Eisenhammer78]

I own a Model Y now. Before that I had a 2013 BMW X3 3L Diesel. My running costs are lower and for my mixed profile (which is most important to consider) I don’t need to think about the car getting warm and for Highway driving (yes in Germany) the dual turbos getting cooled down properly and so on. I just get in and drive. If it’s sub 5km or over 500km doesn’t change a thing. You will destroy your Diesel if you mostly use it for short commutes. If you drive like a Trucker, aka only long distance on Highways, then the Diesel is the best choice. If you mostly drive short routes and hate electric, then petrol is the only way to go. See… driving profile dictates what is best for you. Then comes preference and cost. Destroying a Diesel with short commutes over 5years will cost you the most

[@hugolafhugolaf]

I have a 10 y.o. GLK250, mainly used for short commutes. It's just fine.

[@lint8391]

Diesels don't get destroyed by short commutes. All you need to do is to adjust the service (mainly oil change) interval.

[@sealegs446]

The £100 depreciation cost over the 2 days was missed off the EV car

[@tedarcher9120]

What lol. Teslas depreciate miles less than a Peugeot lmao

[@ben3291]

@@tedarcher9120 But in truth the Peugeot will outlast the Tesla because of its Stupid batteries your lucky to get 10 years out of the Tesla before its toast

[@drplokta]

@@ben3291Real-world numbers if you look after your battery are that it will lose about 5% of its capacity every 100,000 miles. So after 400,000 miles it will still be around 80% and perfectly usable - how will a petrol engine be doing?

[@ben3291]

@@drplokta Petrol or Diesel cars would usually be fine still My dad had a ford Focus for 14 years and was 17 years old when it covered over 125,000 Miles and only got scrapped for an electrical issues not Mechanical and passed every mot . i doubt an EV will last that long . My other half had a Company car for a few months recently a 2020 BMW 116D with 104,000 Miles and it was fine and still drove well again.

[@drplokta]

@@ben3291 I’m talking about 400,000 miles, not 100,000. Not many petrol cars will get that far.

[@wrutherfordx3x]

Put simply, when I compare my two EVs with the last diesel I had that achieved 50 mpg, there is a least a difference of £0.10 per mile. So, over 100k miles I'll save £10k. Every 10k miles, I'll save £1k. Charge over night at home. Also have Solar.

[@whitehart11]

Solar at night?

[@markdance574]

That’s all fair enough but you had a bigger investment both on the cars purchase price plus all the solar investment etc . There are so many metrics to take into account no matter what anyone says a cheap diesel car would be cheaper over a 3-5 period

[@perryrhodan1936]

​@@whitehart11 - No, at the day. In conjunction with a small battery for the house, you lower the costs even moren; day or night.

[@Mr11ESSE111]

You didn't take in consider higher insurance for that time and more tires change and if you go on longer journeys on public chargers electricity are more expensive then fuel and of course you pay more at start electric car so basically you dont save nothing maybe you will start to back money at 200000km /122000miles but then comes huge depreciation too just like big chance of battery will die and capacity will be lower ....

[@Mr11ESSE111]

Lets face it you will never return your invest into EV because you sayed you will save 10k in 100k miles but you already payed so much more for ev car without anything calculate

[@mrpete1972]

I'd buy a 2 year old diesel, cheaper because of the depreciation and the fuel economy/cost would make sense.

[@petercraig9197]

This is the most informed, honest review I've seen. Of course the results are predicated on buying a new car. Some years ago I bought a 2 year old diesel on PCP. The purchase price was broadly similar to a 2 year old petrol model. It's probably worth less now but I have no plans to change it so I'm happy and keep up with the servicing. I've never driven through London and probably never will as I live up north.

[@Balecart]

So why is the y exempt from the congestion charge it still causes congestion?

[@josephberrie9550]

you are not supposed to ask those intelligent questions it upsets wee khan

[@Twmpa]

@@josephberrie9550 What? Like why I have to pay the daily ULEZ fee if I use a highly efficient 2008 Citroen C3 diesel (65mpg, 118g/km CO2) but belching out nearly four times the emissions in a 2008 V12 Mercedes (18mpg, 400g/km CO2) is free?

[@waskus]

The infrastruckture for EV charging is still terrible where I live. So few charging points.

[@layzygaming945]

How you drive and engine quality makes a huge impact. I've got a M235i, 2.0L Turbo, 300hp and I've managed to average 50mpg driving from Manchester to London doing the speed limits everywhere. Sensational engine.

[@kagander8619]

Bmw did B series engines so well

[@bikeman123]

Did you allow for the speedo overeading by 10%. I find that an indicated 50mpg is actually 45mpg.

[@trevorberridge6079]

@@bikeman123 You are clearly confusing speed with consumption. The fact that your speedo overreads has no impact on how much distance you travel per gallon. lazygaming945 didn't specify an average speed. You can't extrapolate reduced consumption from that, never mind factoring in how much time he spent at his optimum economical speed (generally a constant 50-60mph with no stop-start). In the case of electric cars any amount of slowing down will create power and improve efficiency.

[@chrishannibal5309]

@@bikeman123 MPG doesn't over read you lunatic, that's just maths. It's the speedo which isn't exactly accurate.

[@Jisei13]

​@@trevorberridge6079speed directly impacts mpg...

[@summerjunk929]

New car prices are effing ridiculous

[@robi4387]

Politicians know best apparently. They keep telling us to to use gas, buy diesel cars, don't buy diesel, don't heat your house with gas, use solar and what next I wonder?

[@mymusic5772]

An interesting comparison would be having passengers in the car and putting some items in the boot.My feelings are the diesel would be the outright winner.

[@boomerau]

If you aren't doing high km's or long running hours the diesel emissions systems maintenance cost will defeat any savings.

[@OhNoYouDidnt]

nobody realises this, they just throw money at the mechanic but if you don't do proper miles and run a diesel right you will have EGR/DPF issues amongst or things.. something i'm experiencing right now and im heading back to petrol, using this Peugeot 3008 as the platform

[@FlechAFlech]

@@OhNoYouDidnt just turn them off at any tuner. They are talking a lot about it but there is no way for now how to check this if its properly made. Computer will throw no errors, visually nothing changes and there is no machine that can detect it and you will get same numbers on technical exam all you need to do is: give car a nice 30-40 minute spirited drive, bring the car there hot and be first in line. Also there are some additives you can throw in that reduce smoke temporary but i had no need for that.

[@allanbriggs9007]

This is something that is peddled around the traps. It is absolute nonsense. Before buying my 3008 diesel I spoke to my mechanic because I do a lot of short trips . He said not to worry - just rev the engine out for a few minutes and you will have no problem. He was right - never had a problem. I do get the car serviced as per the book.

[@Apemania69]

Petrol also has the benefit if you dont drive long stretches like only 5 or 10minute drives. Diesel have issues in that driving style bc they cant rly heat up the particle filter and might get blocked by then at some point and then you have to hammer it on the autobahn. Personaly allways used petrol as i get headache from diesel fumes. Got myself a tesla model 3 in 2019 and love it. Yea winter isnt the strength of EV, but my average over the whole year is way lower and dont forget the best part of a EV especially Tesla: NO ANNUAL SERVICE FEES, which bring down the cost even faster

[@johnbuxton6009]

Yes for nocking around great I'm sure. But if you need something with guts and performances 😂 I'm mean really long distance and towing. Diesel is still the best vehicle.

[@johnbuxton6009]

When I fill my diesel up I get an estimated range of 502 miles.

[@erik_dk842]

Service on a new car is a scam anyway, it's just an insurance premium you pay for them to honor the warranty

[@kawasakiman8965]

Ok for you the ordinary working class person can not afford these very expensive electric vehicles most people struggle to pay their bills and just manage to run a cheap diesel car to get to work

[@lint8391]

Complete myth that all diesels with DPF need high speed driving to keep the DPF clear. I've had 2 x Volvo D5's and a BMW 330D that had periods of round town driving only. Never had a DPF issue with any of them.

[@JoeyBrod]

I went from a G22 BMW 420d MHT to a G42 BMW 220i. What a terrible decision. The 220i loves a drink and has no power at the bottom. The 420d was amazing and I could get 800 miles from a tank. Sure the 220i has a smaller tank, about 5L small iirc but my god it struggles to get 400 miles to a tank. This is with exactly the same commute and use. Absolute waste of time having a petrol. I would 100% urge everyone to go for the diesel car where possible.

[@Matwiej19]

Now the cheapest model Y cost £44900, peugot from £38755. Most of the people don't have access to home chargers. Now let's add car insurance as well as plays with new premiums massively. We need to think about the range of the car. Model y 260 miles so more like 220, where peugot petrol or diesel substantially higher.

[@AjG007]

Diesel fuel is only more expensive in the UK because the government is trying to tax people away from using the fuel. Diesel is easier and cheaper to manufacture and is far more stable than petrol as well as being significantly more energy dense. Modern diesel car engines are far cleaner than they used to be and are relatively clean.

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

Issue is as a fossil fuel car gets older engine parts wear and they become less efficient and dirtier , yes a new one is relatively clean but in 10 years from now in the hands of someone who seldom services it , it won't be ( plenty of people who just struggle to afford a car often miss servicing ) .

[@tomsdaddy]

And it only kills one Planet at a time.

[@JackLondonen]

Yep, and the one thing we are in hurry is to cut CO2-emissions and diesel is the champion there. Plus if you use renevable diesel which cuts CO2 another -90% it is much much better for climate struggle than EV. Manufacturing EV uses so much CO2 that you have to drive it 90,000kms to make up the gap if compaired with fossil diesel but when compaired to Hydrated Vegetable Oil (renevable diesel) you cannot keep EV running that long, It is more than 800,000kms.

[@hydraflyer]

Should of compared it with Octopus EV tariff. 7.5p per kwh makes a huge difference

[@Willhhoward]

OVOs is 7p

[@gregb1599]

Obviously, you did not watch or understand the price breakdown as they clearly said there are cheaper plans

[@nikc1313]

I went with eon drive. It's 9.5p per kw but I get that rate for 7 hours a night so can actually get a full charge from near empty.

[@kamilcuniak8412]

Isn’t that 6 hours so best case scenario 6 x 7 x 3.4 - 143 miles of range for £4 which is still very good just you can’t charge car fully at lower rate

[@bikeman123]

Who is subsidising ev tariffs? Whys it so much cheaper than domestic tariffs?

[@peterengland6153]

My electric provider gives me 3hrs free at night, had MG4 4 months, 4,000 kms, Zero cost. My diesel which I still have (Vito Van) only does 10 litres per 100km maybe 8.5L on a run.

[@jeffmcadam9071]

Electric cars also have the issue of being able to charge at home as you will find people in terraced houses don't have that option. The best car to buy is a diesel and always buy an old, used one. Sod Khan.

[@KaiPonte]

I have driven petrol, diesel, and electric vehicles. I am in California in the United States, and owned a couple of General Motors trucks, a Chevrolet Malibu petrol hybrid, and a VW Jetta TDI. The diesel with a 1.9L four cylinder did receive about 40 miles per gallon and was a five-speed manual. I only got rid of it at 240,000 miles because the transmission died and I just didn't like driving a diesel anymore. The diesel was noisy, smelly, and the fuel cost more than petrol. I will not be going back to diesel. My hybrid Malibu with a 1.6L engine mated to a two speed automatic with a hybrid generator powering the car under 20 mph. My EV - a 2022 Ford Mach-e - goes about 320 miles on a full charge. I have put 25,000 miles on it over the past year and love the car. I also have 12 solar panels and pay very little for electricity. I did watch Arsenal crush West Ham and Liverpool. Should be interesting to see what they do against poor Burnley.

[@markjohnathanappleton8642]

These 2 car reviewers are my favourite car reviewers

[@georgepelton5645]

They are quite good. I like their style of presentation, and how this comparison test was done.

[@st-ex8506]

That was indeed a good test... with one major flaw, though! No EV owner charging at home pays 29p for the kWh, but a third of that or less! That piece of data was dishonest!

[@1988dgs]

Start to finish, materials sourcing, manufacturing etc to end of life decommissioning/ dismantling, electric is the most polluting option. It’s a false argument that the “emissions at tail pipe” makes it the best choice without looking at the whole picture

[@luketurnbull3712]

Do you have any references to back up your claim. I read a newspaper article that had evidence that the pollution of ICE vs. EV is not how some people claim.

[@BittermanAndy]

It's 2024 and you're still lying about this. Baffling.

[@eshov]

I've owned several diesel cars over the years and the one major life limiting feature of the modern diesel engine is the introduction of the particulate filter. Yes, it needs to be there to satisfy emissions regulations. But anyone buying a diesel to do short trips needs to remember that these filters will clog up very quickly with this type of use. The cost to remedy a blocked DPF can run into the thousands. I now drive a petrol purely because of the hassle DPFs have caused me.

[@JDPuss1]

simple way to avoid DPF and EGR problems if you only do short journeys most of the week - about twice a month go out for the day and give the car a good run

[@chriscringle9263]

The Tesla works out to about £700 a month on lease. People are crazy to believe and use electric.

[@paulwatson9217]

The real question is why does diesel cost more than petrol? Those of us who are old enough to remember can remember diesel being less than half the price of petrol back in the late 60’s and early 70’s It takes less to process and produce it just the good old rip off Britain at its best!

[@Isclachau]

Let’s be honest. The Y is several grand more so that’s the fuel saving lost. . And the only way the government has been able to convince people to buy an EV is Cheap home tariffs. And that’s not long for survival as demand increase’s going by what Octopus and Eon are saying.

[@TheMrMarkW]

I regularly have to drive from Yorkshire to Scotland. I get 65mpg on average in my 2018 Audi A4 Avant Sport Ultra 2.0 TDI. It has lower CO2 emissions and has got Adblue to reduce particulates & NOx. I don't need to do any short journeys mostly, so I have no need for an electric vehicle personally (and still there's none that'll do the journey I can do to the Isle of Skye without needing to charge multiple times and that's a challenge north of Glasgow). The tests you've done here show why Diesel cars are still the most efficient (and cost effective in many cases). Especially if you don't have access to a slow granny charger at home and have to use superchargers / public fast chargers like I would need to.

[@edc1569]

How does ad blue reduce particulates?

[@dennislane100]

@@edc1569Short answer;- it doesn’t! But the associated D P F in the system should deal with them. It’s been mandatory on all diesel vehicles since Euro 5 came into force.(around 2014,I believe)

[@TheMrMarkW]

@@edc1569 whilst the adblue doesn't directly do anything to the Particulates chemically, the water / steam it creates as part of the NOx -> Nitrogen reaction helps clean the DPF and the washing out of particulates as part of the DPF regen process rather than being emitted in the stream of exhaust gas. So the particulates aren't airborne but drop onto the road surface.

[@Rose.Of.Hizaki]

I have a skoda octavia with probably the same engine. I do a mix of local driving and regular short hops on the motorway about 2hrs or so. While ive been told that short journeys are bad for diesel engines. Thats why it always gets a rather spirited drive on the motorway when I need to go somewhere. Come summer, I hope to drive from london to scotland for some fishing trips. I can go there on one tank and still have enough for a small tour before filling up for the drive back.

[@allanokeeffe9499]

My Euro 6 520d doesn't need adblue.

[@Davran2742]

Hello from the west coast of Canada. Petrol here is $1.65/L right now (was $2.10/L in the summer). Charging my '23 Chevy Bolt euv at home -- at $0.1406/kwh -- costs 1/3 of what it cost to put petrol in my '19 awd Prius (for the same commute), which averaged a calculated 4.1L/100kms over 88,600kms.

[@HTOP1982]

Electricity in Canada is much cheaper than in the UK. Most things are...

[@Davran2742]

@HTOP1982 -- Residential electricity in BC Canada is $0.1406/kwh, which converts to 0.061 pounds. I don't know what your electricity prices are.

[@HTOP1982]

@@Davran2742 in the uk, we have lovely 0.2922/kWh so 4.7 times more! There are some EV charging schemes that charge overnight 0.0895 but charge 0.3093 during the day. Whichever way we look at it, Canada wins this one!

[@Davran2742]

@@HTOP1982 -- Nasty.

[@markleeming1786]

@@HTOP1982 Yep I pay £0.071 to charge the car during the wee hours, but do pay a few pence more per kwh through the day£0.28.8. Although having looked at my detailed bills, EVERY KWH going into the car has been charged at 7.1p no matter what time of the day. There are a lot of chargers in Scotland charging between 15p-25p per KWH, plus a lot FREE.

[@johnlightbody9942]

Average street electric charging in our area is 75p per kW with £1 connection charge... This makes ALL electric cars more expensive to run than Diesel & Petrol.... Without a home charger & considering EV's are still more expensive than their ICE equivalent & road tax will be payable for EV's as well... Simply no point in making the switch....

[@jwvandegronden]

I love diesel cars, but thanks to Diesel being condemned, taxes were being raised and I started paying two thousand (!!) euros in road tax in Holland. So I had to sell it, as these are borderline criminal prices. Such a shame, as they are phenomenal! In my case it was a 508 Hybrid4. Marvelous piece of kit!

[@ValMartinIreland]

Once you drive a diesel you will never drive anything else. No revving or racing just solid torque

[@ValMartinIreland]

@@CaptainProton1 I know about 12 users and not one will buy another one and some have have bought ICE cars and cannot get a reasonable price the the EV.

[@AndyfromSurrey]

Good comparison and nice to see a balanced view to fuel types. One fuel type doesn’t suit everyone & you have shown this nicely 👍🏻.

[@rinibrugel3573]

I bought a 2.0L turbo diesel Cruze in 2012 and I didn't buy it for the fuel economy, that was just a bonus. The alternative engines were a 1.8 petrol engine and a 1.4T turbo petrol engine. The diesel was far more driver friendly with it's massive torque. Living in Australia long distances are normal if you use your car for a holiday, or simply going for a drive. I still use my car as a daily driver and had my first problem just before the car turned 11. I had to fit a new intercooler pipe. What repairs would an electric car have in 12 years, if the battery lasted that long, also what would it cost to insure?

[@timogronroos4642]

Also, there is about a 13% difference in energy density between diesel and petrol. Let us say petrol engine consumption is 5L/100km, then equal energy from diesel would be 4,35L/100km.

[@uke4915]

Plus on a long run you have to calculate how much extra time with charging Ev it will take compared to a petrol or diesel .

[@neptunejupitersaturn]

I thought London being the most congested city in the world was a joke at first. But after driving through most of the city for years now, it really really is true. Traffic is horrendous in London.

[@xxwookey]

Yeah. Just don't do it - it's horrible. As the fella said - you are generally better off on a bike (bus/tube/scooter/e-bike).

[@DS-cf1zc]

For a laugh, and because there is no ULEZ or Congestion charge, I drove my VW campervan into London on Christmas day for a laugh. Trust me I wont do it again, the roads were shockingly bad, even on Christmas day, and having survived the ordeal and got back to Greenwich Observatory, I was able to relax with a fresh brew, and reflect on not doing it again. As I drove back home afterwards, I realised London is just car carnage.

[@carholic-sz3qv]

if they want to ban ICE in london they should also stop relying on them to maintain the city alive lol!!!! they should do literaly everything with EVS.

[@b4tm4nrubin33]

The whole of London is horrendous

[@edc1569]

Much worse now after all the LTNs, cost the country a small fortune.

[@AnotherAmateurCarChannel]

You should do a TOC comparison between these 3 cars in a period of let's say 5 years, 20k kms a year... Price+insurance+eco premiums+service+gas/electricity... I bought a Model Y RWD in August after comparing it to a Cupra Leon ST Plug-in-hybrid... It won by a significant margin. (I am living in Germany)

[@robertastk]

Had E320CDI, 3,2l straight six diesel in s211 body. With that prehistoric diesel. Car had over 550k km on the clock and not even a turbine was rebuilt. Did some maintenance - like all new filters, cleaned airbox, changed washers under fuel injectors, put on r16 wheels with good tires and did a trip (2 people with lots of gear and luggage for hiking holidays). Drove 95% highway, reaching speeds of 150-160 kph for extended periods of time. Had fuel economy of 6.2l/100km. On the way back took relaxed approach and probably most of the time drove under 120kph - had fuel economy of 5,3l/100km. Bulletproof engine, comfort, enough power to pull a train. Just came back from holidays in Spain, rented a 1.0TSI shitbox. Two people, two small cabin bags and two small backpacks. Drove 1500km. Most were done 105 kph autopilot on highways. Barely managed to do 6l/100km. No power, no comfort. Not a chance that this engine could last nearly 500k km. Couple years back had Peugeot 1.2 diesel as a rental in Italy. Fuel economy was ±3,5l/100km. If you drove under 90 kph. If you tried doing highway 140 - it took ±10-11 l/100km. Again no power no comfort, doubtful reliability. We are all being brainwashed and fucked by all these co2 bullshits. If we are fighting co2 - main source of co2 in car with ICE is burned fuel. Second is longevity of vehicle. If there were cars 30 years ago doing easily 4-6l with normal capacity engines, with decent power and being reliable at the same time - all these modern engines where everything is made of single use plastics, which brakes even under warranty - where's the "cleanness and greenness" of these shitboxes? What is more green, to drive one car for 800-900k km and maintain it or buy 3 new shitboxes every 200-300k km? And don't get me started about EV's and "zero emissions" with all the mining, recycling and "green" energy, especially in northern countries. Where sun produces close to 0, 3-4 months per year. I have enough fun heating home with electricity already...

[@baldeepbirak]

As someone who drives up to 5000 miles a year petrol is best option. Can drive an older car given the lower usage too. Don't have ulez fee either for smaller engine.

[@ATC_871]

Interesting. Although the 5008 may be happy lugging around 1 passenger (similar to this test) and economy seems reasonable. As soon as you load them up it doesn't deal so well, especially the smaller engine models. I have the 1.2 petrol 5008 (23 plate)....and when loaded up with 3 kids, a passenger and a boot full......averaging between 30-35mpg. Engine far too small for the target market. Diesel option would be much better when the car is fully loaded. But I hear there is an electric/hybrid 5008 on the way?? Would be good to see how that compares.

[@allanbriggs9007]

What size diesel engine do they have in the UK??

[@paultasker7788]

What's also interesting is that every petrol I've had the trip over reads by about 3mpg. With every diesel it's nearly spot on and that was your experience too.

[@TB-up4xi]

True and to counter this they just took the total actual litres refilled at the pump and ingnored any onboard systems - but my Audi Q5 Diesel did exactly the same thing though when it says it was using 6.2l/100 between refills the actual was more like 7.0-7.2l/100 when you divided the kms by the total amount you actually had to fill at the pump.

[@paultasker7788]

They probably think most owners will just believe the computer and a slightly higher figure will make them happier with fuel economy than if the true figure was displayed. I've never had a car that under reads

[@tonyb3629]

I believe a modern diesel is amazing. With Adblu, it's low emissions, and these days, 60-70mpg on a good run. Not so good round town, but that's probably an EV's best use case. EV's work for some, but not for others, and re best suited in urban areas and cities. Diesel has been demonised and vilified though as part of the climate religion that's appeared. Can you guys also stop with the climate 'crisis' narrative please. ALL cars have emissions, tyre particulate emissions are WAY higher than any exhaust emissions these days, which means heavier EV's are no way exempt. Their manufacturing carbon footprint is 2-3x that of petrol, so have a massive deficit before you've drive in a mile in them. Also, over 96% of the CO2 in the atmosphere occurs naturally.

[@ma40]

And yet I've done 420 miles in a big battery EV in one day from Campbeltown to the East Midlands with two short charging stops in Glasgow and Wigan.🤷‍♂I didn't have to queue once for chargers, yet it was in the middle of the school holidays. Took me about 8 1/2 hours. It's a complete myth that they are best suited to urban areas.

[@xzaratulx]

Diesel is king. Tho EU hates Diesel emissions and almost no car offers a diesel variant anymore. Tho that could change 2025

[@nottmfunguy]

We own 2 diesels and 1 petrol. The diesels are more efficient. Our new 4x4 diesel is a Euro6 engine and the other is Euro5.. The petrol car is not used much these days, it only 4 years old, but obviously lucky to get 42 mpg out of it. We live in the countryside, so sorry our thoughts are mainly on the efficient diesels not what come out of the tailpipe.

[@rickagfoster]

Most EVs home charge and it costs peanuts to charge at home via a public charger. Even on longer trips we take out of town, home charge often gets you there, and if we don’t wall plug it, then you need a small top up at a supercharger to get home, again, peanuts.

[@accidentalactor9306]

It's worth pointing out that the more demand for electricity the higher the cost will become for all. The national grid already struggles at certain times and as to buy electricity from France. The energy suppliers just give the public typical sales talk saying there's no problem with supply and demand but the actual grid will tell you another.

[@Delta_Sierra]

not true, UK peak demand for electricity was ~60GW in the early 200's, peak demand in winter these days is ~45GW, plenty of headroom with many redundant generators in the systen. The French situation is that they actually produce more than what they require so the interconnected cables share power to manage the load. As the French grid is mainly nuclear/solar/wind it acutally reduces the emissions of the UK grid. Look up grid templar watch Uk, raw figures there.

[@accidentalactor9306]

The higher the demand the higher the cost......I stick to this statement. My brother in-law works in NG planning and although you are correct about the decline in usage which is mostly attributed to increased energy efficient devices the grid still buys in electricity not just for costing reasons but also for coping with spikes in regional areas.

[@ma40]

As most EV charging happens overnight, it's not really much of an issue. Costs are forecast to fall in the long run as renewables start to dominate the grid. The National Grid themselves have written plenty on this to dispel the myth. However, we are still waiting for the government to reform the electricity grid away from the marginal cost model which prices electricity based on the most expensive provider (which is always gas or coal). The consultation closed in October 2022, and since then the government just argued amongst themselves...

[@Delta_Sierra]

But look at the stats, French wholesale electricity prices are usually 10-20% cheaper than the UK's due to the high base load of Nuclear, so were importing "surplus" cheaper energy. I too work in the energy industry, and so the long term strategy is sound in upgrade and management. BESS projects are large now and balance the grid well. The overall stability of the grid has never been better, the new Viking interconnector is another example. Lastly, the amount of offshore wind has mean that previously neglected areas of the grid network are getting lots of upgrades, coupled with things like Hinkley point means it is getting refreshed well which was long overdue to allow for growth in the network for new demand. @@accidentalactor9306

[@wordreet]

When we think about overall effects on the planet, Shirley we should include the fact that 15 year old Vauxhall Astra diesels, (like mine) or whatever, are still perfectly viable as daily transport, AND get 50 mpg!

[@BionicRusty]

✈️ “I am serious, and don’t call me Shirley” 😂

[@tomsdaddy]

Just 'Don't Breathe in' ?

[@Man_v_Cars]

​@@tomsdaddyYou are aware EVs put out higher amounts of brake dust and rubber particles due to weight? 'Don't breathe in'.

[@jolive3743]

you are aware ev drivers rarely use the brakes coz the regenerative braking means 1 pedal driving.@@Man_v_Cars

[@wordreet]

@@Man_v_Cars True enough.

[@neilt1889]

How long did it take to charge the electric car to full power ? When it takes about 5mins to full a petrol/diesel car !!! and where does the electric come from a power staition( gas/ oil) so even more CO2 emissions so electric car drivers are a sort of NIMBY !!

[@Gmh6477]

Good luck finding a nice diesel nowadays unless you want a Peugeot as most manufacturers have ditched them, Also didn’t include servicing into those prices

[@inrtime]

Excellent comparisons 👌. All have their pros and cons depending on the individual needs of their owners. For my needs, a small engined light weight petrol car is the best solution at this time...enter the Dacia Sandero. Cheap to buy, run and economical with the only real negative, running it will never he as environmentally friendly as an electric car. I would never recoup the additional costs of a diesel powered car nor the initial outlay required for an electric powered one. From this video what does seem apparent with electric powered vehicles is that unless you have the option to charge them at home, they will be no cheaper and in many cases much more expensive to run than the vehicles they are supposedly replacing 🤔.

[@BudahOfBirmingham]

Good points however if the Tesla had been charged at home on cheap rate, it would have cost about £6.00 for that longer journey and would cost a lot less in servicing, not thrown any poisonous gas out the back, and been a safer car to boot. Not to mention that it will be compatible with self driving and is able to have over the air updates and a brilliant charging infrastructure and it would be quieter and much faster and smoother.

[@christinehede7578]

@@BudahOfBirminghambut will need new tyres a lot sooner.

[@BudahOfBirmingham]

I’ve had my Renault Zoe for years and it’s been light on tyres and brakes

[@lmpoopingpigeon]

@@BudahOfBirmingham Tesla cost less in servicing? Yes, tesla may not going to throw poisonous gas, but come on- let's not pretend that is fully environment friendly car. Self driving is something you after- take a bus.

[@verocimil]

@@christinehede7578 And a new battery...

[@SpecialReserve]

Bought my Diesel Volvo new in 2017, does 40mpg general pottering around. Sails through the MOT every year, and was £30, now £35 road tax. The last service was a 129k service, but just 45k on the clock. Someone will get a sweet car when I decide to change it.

[@rjj00]

which model thanks

[@bEEBO178]

Yes, just keep buying that ad blue 😂🤡 don't forget your 80% fuel duty 😂🤡 and your blocked egr valve 😂🤡 and your blocked dpf 😂🤡 and your snapped timing chain 😂🤡 and your seized injectors 😂🤡 and your relentless constant oil servicing and filter changes 😂🤡🤡🤡

[@lordpetrolhead477]

Each vehicle has its advantages but the killer here is depreciation. A new Model Y will cost you £52,990 and a one year old with 20k miles is on Autotrader for £34,350. That’s a 36% drop in price whereas the diesel 5008 new is £36,378 and a one year old with 20k miles is £28 ,598. That’s a 17% drop in price.

[@soosandras555]

Those numbers doesn't mean anything, unless you actually sell your 1 year old car. If you plan to use it for a long time, depriciation will probably be much closer. And if buying a used care is an option for you, fast depreciation can actually be very attractive, since you can buy a 1 year old model Y at a much lower price. So it's not the numbers what are important, but making the good decision for you.

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

@@soosandras555 The EV will be in landfill in 3 years.

[@markburton8303]

@@JamesSmith-qs4hx there's plenty of Teslas, Leafs, Zoes etc around well over 3 years old. Grow up

[@allanbriggs9007]

It seems to be the opposite in Ausralia. I just bought a 2022 Peugeot 3008Gt HDi (diesel) - for $AUD42,000 (new price was approx $65,000) The petrol version of the same car (similar age and kms travelled was $8-10,000 dearer. No idea why as the 2.0L diesel they use in Peugeots here is far superior to the petrol engines.

[@johnjackson2349]

It's worth mentioning diesel engines HATE short journeys, the DPF will block doing repeated short trips, the Royal mail fiat doblo vans are a nightmare for the stop start journey where you have to do a forced regen on the DPF twice a week. Just something to consider when choosing your next vehicle

[@kris856]

I am driving 2,0 TDI skoda superb. 70% motorways and the rest local roads and towns. I drive approx. 100k km a year (65k miles) and average fuel consumption is 4,8l/100km (50mpg).

[@XratedRC]

Take a look at auto trader.... Tesla model 3 2021 is selling for £16k 😂😂😂😂

[@huss1205]

I love my 2011 Hyundai i30 with a 1.6L diesel engine. I drive about 50,000km every year and car cosumes about 4.5L/100km which is about 52 mpg. I am happy with that and no plan for EV, they are a failure in Swedish long cold winters...

[@ebutuoyYT]

If you plan to buy a diesel and don’t do regular long journeys, at faster than urban speed, then plan to have the joys of DPF and injector issues long-term.

[@allanbriggs9007]

Nonsense - see my other comments for an explanation.

[@prussell890]

Very true. If you dont sit on motorways all day, petrol full hybrids are the best choice out there until electric cars improve. Diesel is old dead tech now.

[@kingsknightuk]

I owned a 2015 diesel focus for 5 years and got 48ish MPG. upgraded to a 2021 1l petrol and I get 50mpg on a run. I these ecoboost engines have known issues but its been amazing so far. I don't miss the diesel at all!

[@hassana22]

Diesel is best

[@dutchhondarebel]

It really depends on your situation, but for me personally, diesel. 1L/22kms at €1,60 a liter is significantly cheaper than an EV equivalent without solar panels to charge at home.

[@alan2804]

You dont charge an EV with solar panels, most EV drivers use cheap tariffs or pay at the fast chargers en route

[@mattp4806]

I bought a Peugeot diesel back in 2017 and the sales guy said that the adblue fluid separates the nitrogen and oxygen atoms from the nox meaning only substances found in the air we breathe come out of the exhaust pipe. Was I duped?

[@Greatdane-qf8kd]

Nope - that's the primary purpose of it

[@patriotbarrow]

It gets rid of most of the noxious fumes, but no system is perfect.

[@TheEulerID]

The sales guy for it pretty well right. The nitrogen part comes out as nitrogen (which is what makes up 81% of the air we breathe), but the oxygen part doesn't emerge as oxygen gas, but is combined with hydrogen to produce water (H2O), which is about as benign as it gets.

[@T_Perkins]

Yes. Partly. It will still emit particulates. From memory, they are about 80-90 percent efficient. They may have improved. The filter needs purging every so often and, well, the particulates come out then. The filter is honestly just a storage facility that then is emptied periodically by firing more diesel into the engine on the exhaust stoke to make everything hotter thus burning the particulate matter (soot) off the complex web of exotic materials in the dpf. Your fuel economy is chewed by about 5-10percent while this happens, for me at least. It happens more often when your doing town driving. (Remember how diesel left a little black poof cloud when accelerating away with a bit of oomph? Well, this still happens. Just it's caught by that dpf...) This is where the costs these two, drivers, did start to make petrol and diesel cars seems more in line especially with our fuel prices, if your doing town/stop start driving.

[@TheEulerID]

@@T_Perkins The Euro 6 standards for particulate emissions of petrol and diesel are the same, although it's really only direct-injection petrol cars that are affected. This is the Euro 6 standard for petrol cars CO: 1.0g/km THC: 0.10g/km NMHC: 0.068g/km NOx: 0.06g/km PM: 0.005g/km (direct injection only) PN [#/km]: 6.0x10 ^11/km (direct injection only) This is the one for diesel cars CO: 0.50g/km HC + NOx: 0.17g/km NOx: 0.08g/km PM: 0.005g/km PN [#/km]: 6.0x10 ^11/km Where the above are :- carbon monoxide (CO) total hydrocarbon (THC) methane hydrocarbons (NMHC) nitrogen oxide (NOx) particulate matter (PM) particle number (PN) The particulate count is an astonishing number at 600 billion particles per kilometre. That means that a Euro 6 diesel car that runs for 200,000 km will produce 1.2 x 10^17 particulates, which is about one million times the number of stars in the Milky Way (although only about one 60th of the number of grains of sand on Earth).

[@paultasker7788]

I have noticed using premium unleaded with the golf petrol really improves fuel economy. I got 56mpg on a motorway run using the e5 super unleaded and that means close to 600 miles (53mpg). With standard unleaded that's probably nearer to 520 miles (48mpg). Makes much less difference in town

[@Simonstunell1974]

I owned a 2014 Audi A6 Manual that was bought with 26000 miles in May 2022. In the first 18 months there were two serious major issues. One was the AdBlu system and the other the EGR/DPF system. The AdBlu repair was £2k, the EGR/DPF was £4500. In spite of me driving high mileages this could have cost me dearly. Thankfully my aftermarket warranty covered both (Warranty Direct). In reality, a second hand Diesel may well cause you a massive headache!

[@292eur]

That mileage is too low. The previous owner must have been doing like 3k miles/year, i.e. short trips. No wonder you had problems with EGR and DPF. I don't buy diesels if the previous owner made less than 12k miles/year. 15, even better.

[@Simonstunell1974]

@292eur indeed, however, for the two years prior to my purchase, Covid was prevalent and the car only went a couple of hundred miles. Anyway, lesson learnt and I now have a petrol engine (in a different car!)

[@ricco123tube]

A well considered video with some context to help explain the variables. IMO, you really should add the cost of running an EV using the night time tariff, for example 0.075p on octopus energy intelligent, as EVERYONE I know is on this.

[@annieluctor7524]

And BEV depreciation appears to have been forgotten in the summing up.

[@Man_v_Cars]

Diesel doesn't cost that much outside of London either. Octopus charge the same irrespective of where you are.

[@Isclachau]

Indeed but that tariff will be going soon.

[@ricco123tube]

​@@annieluctor7524considering most EV sales come from leasing, the used EV market is a godsend for those who want a bargain. I'm currently looking for a second EV and the choice at my price point is fantastic. It really is happy days. Oh, and ice car depreciation is awful to!!

[@ricco123tube]

​@@Isclachauwill it?? The more renewable energy the more cheap night rates there will be. It literally goes hand in hand. I assume your comment is just opinion and not garnered from information from available data?

[@markdance574]

Hang on for a cost comparison you need to factor in the basic vehicle cost to purchase , then it’s road tax band , then it’s insurance cost , then it’s fuel costs - plus if the user has purchased solar to charge the car that needs to be considered.

[@synthmaker]

What really matters is monthly cost of ownership, for almost everybody the best choice will be an EV ( actually a Tesla due to the Supercharge network, high range, high efficiency etc ), specially around London where you have ULEZ and congestion charged. Most people don't know that parking in central London on the street with an EV will cost you less than £2 for a full day. With electricity cost at 7.5p/kWh, it's not worth installing solar unless you want some resilience. In the UK power cuts are really rare, I can probably remember 1 or 2 in the last 30 years.

[@bobstirling6885]

@@synthmaker 🤣🤣🤣

[@grahamleiper1538]

Fuel costs for ICE are generally way higher than insurance costs, unless you're under 25 and your insurance is crazy.

[@cliffordparry2862]

And replacement batteries 😢😢😢

[@paulsj3273]

Don’t forget the EXTRA 10% cable\inverter losses in charging the electric car. It would take 60kwh of electricity to charge 55kwh battery capacity (btw still cheaper but inaccurate)

[@TB-up4xi]

Depends on the temperature - I have a 415v 3 phase charger at home and a separate meter just for the Tesla charger - I average 94.6% of the power through the meter being added to the battery over the year - albeit in a warm climate with generally no need to warm the battery pack outside the months of June-August, this morning was 27C at 5am for example.

[@mgreenesco9955]

Do you all realise that the only reason ev's are cheaper to run is because of all the rebates and other government handouts taken directly from other taxpayers pockets. As soon as all the rebates and exempt charges go (and they will as soon as the gov has enough good little lemmings) the actual cost will be higher, and that's before you account for the initial cost to by, depreciation, terrible resale, 10yr life and a new battery costs more than the car and insurance madness and that's before you get to the somewhat more conspiratorial reality that they can remote control the access to your own vehicle and switch you off at any time! You're all going down a very dark road.

[@K05H]

10:51 I also notice that something, heating is a waste byproduct of the ICE vehicles that can be used to keep the occupants comfortable. However, for the EV, it is an additional process that saps electricity and reduces range.

[@verocimil]

Good point.

[@frantzs1077]

There is a hidden cost associated with diesel engines that is not widely known. With the new methodology for measuring exhaust gases (already implemented in some EU countries), it will be determined whether your car is working properly. This means that if you bought a car registered as Euro5 compliant, it would have to adhere to those standards. If it does not, you would have to fix it by changing faulty catalytic converters. When this was first implemented in the Netherlands and Belgium, 10% of diesel cars failed. Some cars have to use more expensive (cleaner) diesel with additives to pass the test, since car makers were labeling their cars quite optimistically at the time of sales.

[@sargfowler9603]

Excellent video, thank you. You seemed to skip the bit about Tesla residual values. Looking at how little you'll get for a 2 year old Tesla must be factored into all these calculations. I can't imagine the Peugeots fairing much better, but ownership isn't just about MPG

[@80y3r9]

Come on, you're saying a Peugeot has good residuals?? 🤣🤣😬

[@phunkstar7347]

yes and also, more people are holding a car 10 year or more. There is still the thing about the battery, warranty is up to 8-10 years. So if this has to replaced because of an defect or just because of bad range. It will be quit costly.

[@trevorberridge6079]

If you want to go that route then you need to look at total lifetime cost of ownership. EVs win every time. But, this video is not looking at that.

[@sargfowler9603]

@@80y3r9No, if you bothered to read my comment…

[@drunkenhobo8020]

Teslas hold their value quite well relative to a new one. The problem is that the new models keep getting cheaper, so used prices fall in line with that. People who bought cars at the height of the chip shortage are finding out it wasn't a great financial decision.

[@dungbetel]

Of course, for the 1.2 petrol, you''d also have to factor in the cost of replacing the engine when the cambelt falls apart...

[@motleydude73]

Just replace it when it's due. Not hard.

[@Lj3D63]

​@@motleydude73 1.2L Puretech 3 cylinders from Stellantis have a very bad tendancy to cambelt problems well before the expiring date or range (at leat for us in France) At my job, in a pool of 21 cars qith this engine, 4 ones the belt begun to fell apart since 3 yeras and less than 30 000Km.

[@josephberrie9550]

@@motleydude73 if only

[@Twmpa]

A couple of weeks ago we had a family trip away for a few days in our Citroen C3 Picasso diesel loaded with four adults, their luggage and a roof box. Over 560 miles and a single tank of fuel the car returned 54mpg which is only around a 6mpg or 10% reduction in fuel economy over normal unloaded running. When we arrived home the replenishment of that 560 miles of range took less than 5 minutes. This is not a typical or regular drive for me I grant you but I am willing to bet that a petrol C3 Picasso would be lucky to return 30mpg under these conditions and I would be surprised if an equivalent electric car such as a Peugeot E208 could make 100 miles between charges.

[@69memnon69]

I’d love to know who’s behind the media publishing so much fud about EV’s.

[@benellis7427]

I do not know anyone with an electric car that pays 29p at home. 7.5p-9p seems the norm. If they used EV tariff in this comparison it would be a real eye opener for a lot of people. Sad part is if you can’t get a home charger you will probably worse off than petrol or diesel.

[@rchatte100]

Most overnight EV tarrifs jack up your daytime electric costs.

[@80y3r9]

I do Combination of WFH and lack of miles Plus I can't get the cheapest rates because I bought a zappi n they don't recognise it, minefield

[@tonyb3629]

That may be so, but anyone on an EV tarrif will only get a few hours at that rate overnight, and most people will then pay MORE for their day rate tarrif. These tarrifs are chaging all the time, but that's the rule of thumb. Cheap rate for 4-6 hours overnight, then pay more during the day.

[@ma40]

@@80y3r9 Have you considered the Octopus tracker tariff? Prices change daily, but it has been substantially cheaper than the standard variable rate for ages. Zappi is now compatible with Octopus Intelligent btw.

[@bryanduncan6178]

Not with Octopus Go.... I pay the capped rate during the day and 9p/kWh between 00:30 and 04:30. A 40 mile journey last weekend cost me £1.62!! It pays to shop around....

[@chrisb5839]

I think what these reviews fail to address, is that the large majority of the general public cannot afford a brand new car. I have been driving for 20 years and have never purchased a new car. Most people can only afford between £4k-£7k when buying a new car, so if you compare that to a £14k new car, for the same amount of money I can have my £4k-£7k car and 5-8 years worth of fuel. This is the main reason why electric cars are not taking off and becoming the norm. **EDIT** Just realised the cost new was £44k! I thought they said £14k!! 😂 So for the same amount of money, I could have a secondhand and nearly 30 years of fuel!! 😂😂

[@tuomasandersson3889]

Yes, but you're also driving an old unsafe shitbox.

[@chrisb5839]

@@tuomasandersson3889 it passes it's MOT every year.