The Ultimate Stealth Ship...Why Don't We Have More of Them?

[@zachklopfleisch8501]

"MV Ocean Trader" has that "hello fellow merchants" vibe.

[@ReptilianLepton]

A warm thanks to the many members of the Merchant's Guild generously funding and bankrolling these vessels. You're all truly wonderful.

[@christopherg2347]

"Hugh Man, Earthling"

[@IFRYRCE]

@@ReptilianLepton I would not have expected to see Sseth enjoyers here, but I'm never surprised anymore.

[@manray005]

Ahoy fellow merchant seaman. How does the water look today? Any interesting traffic on the high seas?

[@seldoon_nemar]

MV Name of Ship 😂

[@sabatheus]

I bet there are like 12 of them, but when one comes into port, we're like, "Yep that's our one ship." 😅

[@legendary_soup4454]

Sadly I can confirm it's the only one.

[@phlogistanjones2722]

You give far too much credit to the "leadership" of the various branches. That really is not their "style" any longer. Doing the job? Being quiet professionals? HOW BORING!

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

@@legendary_soup4454 "Sadly I can confirm it's the only one." Face it, IF you were a US maskirova asset, you would say the same.

[@legendary_soup4454]

@@karlvongazenberg8398 I'm not under any NDA or top secret clearance and if I was a wouldn't have said anything at all. I worked on the flight deck and laid down a special nonskid for V22/F35 operations just like they do on the LHDs and LHAs. The company I worked for has a patent so we are the only ones who can do it and we only did 1 and a couple years ago we refurbished the deck.

[@seldoon_nemar]

They should have called it the Ocean Trader #4 The next one is #7.... Etc But the hulls all have different numbers like 2 and 6 at some points 😂

[@lightningdemolition1964]

"They have a capacity to carry four whales onboard" we will do anything to avoid having to use the metric system.

[@thevnbastid1027]

like I give a middle easterner about your opinion

[@henkmagnetic3103]

@@thevnbastid1027 - MAGA Make America Goons All-time

[@wyldhowl2821]

How what are the dimensions of the ship? "78500 pounds, 2.1 football fields long, draught of 12 cubits ... " 😅

[@pistonburner6448]

I think they're just using the cruise ship industry metric. They measure their capacity in number of whales.

[@WhiskyCanuck]

It's how they measure the capacity of Klingon Birds of Prey. "There be whales here!"

[@RichardGeiszler]

"We're just a cargo ship." -- "What's your cargo?" -- "Violence and death."

[@wgowshipping]

🤣

[@EricDKaufman]

"If you fuck around i'll happily let you find out"

[@MrBlueBurd0451]

"High-yield explosive liberty and justice for all."

[@13699111]

Excellent %100

[@donalddodson7365]

"Houthis? What Houthis? They all left Yeman ... last night"😂

[@Erah001]

they should paint it rusted! like the Oregon II in Clive Cussler's books :P

[@thatkyledude1093]

Dude, I read the first couple books in that series a few years ago. Great series.

[@CharlieK92004]

The Captains gotta have a Swiss army leg too.

[@javajunky215]

The problem with this and the Choest ships is whenever you find one, you know what they are and if you're anyone who matters, you tracking them. But you are spot on we should be looking at multi-purpose vessels like this design. Just keep the regular Navy out of the design, the price will be under control.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

Navy: I don't care whether or not it's possible, make the ship fly!

[@GeneralLizations]

If we had more than just one, I'm sure it'd be harder to track a fleet of these.

[@GintaPPE1000]

Correction: don't classify it as a USS. ESB, ESD, EPF, even LCS to a degree all snuck by without extensive survivability or acoustics modifications that the regular Navy loves shoving on any of their commissioned warships.

[@GlutenEruption]

@@GeneralLizations a) for anyone in the local region monitoring shipping, the fact that their the one commercial ship who's AIS data is not showing up is going to be a dead giveaway and b) the ubiquity of commercial real time satellite imagery services makes it much easier than you'd expect.

[@pistonburner6448]

The Navy should find commercial ships with the core design which is suitable, then order the vessel half-finished with readiness to attach different modules on it. Then the Navy should have different modules made (bidding opened to many manufacturers), which can be installed on those ships. They could use different combos of modules on the same base, creating the kinds of ships they need. They could then also (relatively) easily later remove and add other modules to adapt and upgrade over the years.

[@jcwoodman5285]

Q ships are back baby!

[@HavingFunYet-zc8wb]

poof gone

[@whyte247]

Morning! Thank you Sal, for letting me know what this ship is. I sailed past it off the coast of the UK about 6 weeks ago. (well it was a few miles away). With no AIS, we were unable to identify it at that distance. Great videos. Keep up the good work.

[@rickkearn7100]

Prof. Sal, I learn more important info about our nation's defense capabilities in this theatre from you, than if I spent 40hrs+ doing my own independent internet research. Your rock, sir. Cheers.

[@joefin5900]

I had a geology professor at a university in upstate NY in the 1970's who was on the Glomar Explorer who tongue in cheek, claimed they were looking for manganese nodules. Those who are informed know they were looking for, and found, sunken Soviet steel.

[@everettputerbaugh3996]

And sent the Soviets a film of the re-burial.

[@AutoReport1]

And Ballard wasn't looking for the Titanic. That was just to explain why they were out there.

[@joefin5900]

@@AutoReport1 Ballard knows how, and why, to keep secrets. He also has his theory as to why Scorpion was lost. Notice how the USN always keeps their mouths shut when our DOD screws up (Indianapolis). I worked with the piping super who built Thresher, he told me the blow lines were too small and froze up on that last dive. God Bless those sailors who now sail those golden shores.....

[@joefin5900]

@@everettputerbaugh3996 That's what makes our country the world's best place to be. While our present administration preaches hate, our veterans have reconciled with Japanese, German, and Soviet former adversaries and buried their hatchets. The Blue Angels welcomed to Moscow in 1992, the Russians loved them, as they did Bob Hoover. Have the Japanese or Russians spent time recovering and returning the remains of our men? God bless the peacemakers.

[@pistonburner6448]

Fun fact: The "ge" in the word "geology" comes from scientists of that discipline tending to stand at the edge of a hole they dug and wonder: "Gee, I wonder what stuff is?", "Gee, I wonder what we find if we dig deeper?", "Gee, how old do you think that is?" etc.

[@thomaspinney4020]

As a former naval person I kept looking for objections to your concepts. I could not. Actually, you make a great deal of sense. Alas, I fear they will be like the escort carriers of WWII. The navy fought against having them until forced by FDR to build one. Once the shooting started the Navy realized just how useful they were. We built almost a hundred of them by war's end. So, great concept but they will need a powerful champion to overcome institutional resistance.

[@karlp8484]

There is nothing more powerful than a good idea who's time has come.

[@robertlevine2152]

Sal, You have presented a logical answer to an immediate need. Now, we get our friends at the DoD to work their magic, and we consult with the Navy, Marines, Army, and Coast Guard. Since we're talking about commercial vessels, let's get ABS, LRS, and DNV involved. Add a few "qualified" shipyards like Halter, Marinette, and Austal involved, and voilà, you have a Littoral Frigate RO/RO. In the spirit of the Zumwalt Class Destroyers, Independence and Freedom Class Littoral Combat ships, the Constellation Class Frigates, you'll get overly complicated ships that are delivered late and cost an order of magnitude or two over the original quote. Bob

[@douglasbanfill1925]

If I were the president of the US. I would put Sal in charge of all things involving sealift capabilities. Not stepping on the Navy, just making sound decisions when it comes to maritime strategy.

[@b101uk9]

the British mock-up ones were in part based on the existing Point class RoRo (MV Hurst Point, MV Eddystone, MV Hartland Point, MV Anvil Point [22 year charter by the MoD from Foreland Shipping]) with superstructure added on the aft behind the original superstructure, along with the bridge being expanded and a deck added

[@Toddnesbitt]

Thanks! You were mentioned the quality of the military grade or the civilian grade in construction of the ships. I had a Forward berthing rack on our guided missile cruiser, and I swear I could hear the water right more than a quarter inch from my ear, it was hard to believe that the steel there wasn't any thicker than that. My question you mentioned the quality of the the naval ships is the Chinese ships quality was similar to the civilian ships? I was watching one of those Chinese and Filipino war programs where they showed a one of their ships punching a hole right through the Chinese Coast guards side of the ship. The Filipino fishing boat seemed to barely hit it and put a nice little gas in that thing , which made me think that maybe Chinese ships are maybe all piece of crap with their steel and such. Do you have any inside poop on the quality of Chinese ship steel? I like your shows keep it up my friend.

[@marchuvfulz]

US did rapid merchant-ship conversion in WWII, most jeep/escort carriers were built that way. But back then we had a large commercial shipbuilding industry.

[@captsam54]

Agree 100% Sal..... Built in America and used for almost anything..

[@MaritimeAnalytica]

What an eye-opening episode! The detailed breakdown of the motor vessel Ocean Trader and its capabilities really highlights the strategic depth of modern naval operations. It's fascinating to see how stealth and versatility are being prioritized in the evolving landscape of global maritime security. The idea of using such vessels to expand naval reach with cost-effective conversions is both innovative and practical. It makes you wonder why more aren't being deployed globally. Great insight into the current state of naval strategy-looking forward to more content like this!

[@billdennis2993]

Thx WGOWS for an informative and timely video. These militarized RORO conversions make a lot more sense than the aluminum beer can litorial ships the USN continues to waste prescious resources on.

[@PrimarchX]

Agreed. I'd like to see something more like the Danish Absalon-class ships. Sort of a hybrid warship that can act as a frigate, expeditionary support ship, hospital and relief ship, etc.

[@DuaneCampbell-p3o]

Just think if we had put money into Absalon class vs the LCS fiasco

[@MM22966]

When you try and combine multiple distinct jobs on one platform, you frequently get a failure. If you delete "frigate", it would be closer to doable.

[@PrimarchX]

@@MM22966 Agreed. But the Absalon-class has been successful compromise that can accomplish a wide array of missions. And, unlike Ocean Trader, do them in contested waters.

[@MM22966]

@@PrimarchX I am...not sure how you are comparing the two. A ship like the OT is multi-mission and absolutely going to operating in contested waters; it's almost required by its likely mission profile. Or reversing it, when was an Absalon last shot at?

[@PrimarchX]

@@MM22966 The Ocean Trader is not stealthy. It's frequently spotted. So how does it operate in contested waters if threatened? Oh, nearby warships? Then how does it remain undercover? As for Absalon, it's got a sufficient weapons fit for self protection from air, sea and sub attack. Ocean Trader works fine if you have complete sea control, which was usually the case until very recently, when suddenly a bunch of goofs with styrofoam drones can somehow seize it from the world's most powerful navies.

[@PaulGodfrey]

Thanks for the video and channel.

[@wgowshipping]

You bet

[@greyjay9202]

Hiding in plain sight was the idea behind German commerce raiders during WW2. They not only operated against tankers and freighters, they tangled with Allied warships, sometimes with devastating effect.

[@MM22966]

and then got hunted down, unsupported.

[@alltat]

@@MM22966 That was an issue with being massively outnumbered and outgunned all over the world, not a flaw of the idea itself.

[@MM22966]

@@alltat True.

[@dasauto44]

This channel keeps getting better and better. ✔

[@13699111]

I agree a %100 and add we need advisors like sal in government

[@windforward9810]

I like it, this needs to be done, but the navy is still in love with carriers. A friend that had been CAG on all the carriers that where deployed to the gulf of Tonkin basically said that the carriers where just a big target awaiting to be sunk. This would spread the risk out onto cheaper hulls that is more useful. Basically a cheap support ship that can do a lot of jobs that would ease the load off the overall Navy.

[@BurkAnat-b4f]

Thanks a lot for your thoughts. In fact when I visited and traveled on board of some ro-ro or ro-pax ferries on Baltic I had similar thoughts. Finland owns too and some others from the Baltic Sea and North Sea and they have fine fleet of modern ferries which easily can be converted to amfibious units/platforms. Each one with capacity to carry a fully loaded battalion (roughly 400 mariners plus their technique). Nowadays when people travel with cars or lorries/trucks via international logistics corridors such fleet is commercially viable and does not need to be a burden financially on state navy budgets. In wartime it can be mobilized, camuphlaged and used as you have mentioned.

[@drmodestoesq]

Just like the giant fast ocean liners were gutted and used as troop ships to ferry hundreds of thousands of soldiers to Europe during WW2.

[@blueskiestrevor5200]

I was reading a book series recently and the plot heavily featured modified cargo ships. In the book China had secretly added VLS cells to dozens of normal cargo ships. Then at the outbreak of war they used these ships to shower U.S naval and air bases with cruise missiles in a surprise attack. I almost hate mentioning this because it's such a good and terrifying idea if our enemies actually did something like this.

[@bearowen5480]

The current state of super power geopolitics is all about arms races and international intimidation. That's why China is scrambling to build a larger navy than the US. The theory that "he with the most ships wins" is demonstrably ephemeral. A better metric would be, "he with the most capable and quiet submarines wins". That's exactly why China will not be able to successfully invade Taiwan, US and Allied navys' formidable fleet of fast attack submarines, with more on the way.

[@wgowshipping]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3O3dXSdaMunpLcsi=udjmj1EjuOIXZk56

[@blueskiestrevor5200]

@@wgowshipping Thank you! I totally missed that episode.

[@Messicrafter]

Sounds like a Ace Combat Plot. Oh wait it is, but with drones in Intermodal Containers instead.

[@davidgoodnow269]

That's not a novel idea, pardon the pun; the PLAN does indeed have VLS cells designed to sit on container ships. The prior adaptation was to use the conventional, common, usually truck-mounted heavy multiple-launch rocket system racks, stowing them in containers in below-deck holds and only bringing them up to the deck when in striking range of their target. But those have been caught in other countries' territorial waters many times, due to random selection for smuggling; Vietnam, Philippines, Australia, Japan, even Italy to my knowledge have found them, among many others. So, the PLAN may have had to stop using those when deploying their anti-piracy/reconnaissance teams -- it's been a couple of decades since I have heard of one being caught.

[@DM-mv4eq]

(2nd crack, comment eaten while writing the first time) I think you raised a good point with LSM and that the idea is "missing the boat." Our connectors are too large, too few, and not combatants. LCAC/SSC is expensive and LCU is slow and not exactly low draft. We need a modern LCM that can function like an assault boat. Aluminum, waterjets, and embrace the new Marine doctrine. It really only needs to be able to carry what a C-130 can carry. That would be big enough to seat even the largest platoon and or move 1-2 vehicles ashore. Shoot for 6 in an LPD or LHA well deck, 8 in an LHD, or 6 on an ESD. Small enough to hitch a ride on an LSMR or even a C-5.

[@echomande4395]

To me it would be hilarious if the Houthis tried to board this ship, not realising just what it was (just a roro). We'd probably never hear about it though.

[@PraetorUA]

It happened once to the Spanish Navy oiler, Patino, as it was mistaken for a merchant vessel near Mogadishu. as you can imagine, it didn't end well!

[@alexbuilds706]

This is a great perspective. Love what you’re doing with the channel and the ideas & info that are spread around. Thx Sal!

[@atthebreakwaters]

10:32 As always, a very presentable video with very good and interesting information. The yard is actual located in Flensburg, Germany. Thats why its the Flensburger Schiffbaugesellschaft 😀and they have indeed build a lot of these RoRo-Cargo ships. But they are currently in financial difficulties after a state subsidy was cancelled. The shipyard had already filed for bankruptcy in 2020, and things have been going downhill for the shipyard ever since. i doubt that they will build another large ferry.

[@gragor11]

the state subsidy was cancelled. Euphemism for cheap power from Nord Stream 1 & 2.

[@user-mp3eq6ir5b]

Definitely an "Oopsie" moment is Statecraft.

[@markkastius3452]

You are correct, I was project manager for 8 RoRo's at FSG from 2016 until my retirement Jan 2020. I know that at one stage the UK MoD had visited the shipyard in order to investigate a possible conversion for military deployment purposes. The idea was eventually dropped for reasons unknown to me. In any case FSG has built at least 30 of these vessels of various capacity and a couple were LNG fueled. The present situation at FSG is rather dismal and as you mentioned the subsidies promised by the German Economic Minister (who is from Flensburg) were never finally approved.

[@j.4941]

While the future of FSG is indeed in peril, that is not at all an argument against the general concept of the Craigside conversion. There's still a number of sister ships of her original design out there that could be converted within months without significant engineering changes. And there's plenty of other yards that can (new) build or modify RoRo ferries all over the world with designs ready in the drawer. I never understood why the US didn't follow up with the idea after the original Craigside conversion - I fully anticipated there would be more of its kind following after it. It's just so massively cheaper, faster and easier to get it done this way for vessels that do not need to be fully MIL-grade...

[@bob-rjburkhart7224]

Thanks!

[@wgowshipping]

Welcome!

[@FlyTyer1948]

You ask why we don’t have more of these ships? The problem in the question is that it assumes logic. Bob’s #1 Rule for large organizations, especially governments: Never assume logic. Rule 2: Keep copies of plans or proposals in triplicate because they will lose the first two. Rule 3: Refer back to Rule 1.

[@warwickrigby6894]

The New Zealand Navy tried the converted RORO trick with HMNZS Canterbury. Numerous problems, can not go below 45 degrees South because it does not like heavy weather, in spite of having five tons of lead put in the bottom of the ship to try and solve the problem.

[@latitudesupplychain2188]

Rnzn still have it.

[@cathybrind2381]

HMNZS Canterbury is based on a Dutch amphibious design, and was actually built in the Netherlands, and arrived in NZ with a container of extra components on the flight deck for Devonport dockyard to finish it off. The issue about sea keeping is that with a short somewhat stubby hull it is likely to be more at home in the North Sea than in big Pacific Ocean swells.

[@l4c390]

Up until the early 1970s, what are now MSC ships were commissioned USN vessels. Those were great leadership/seamanship opportunities which were lost to mid level surface officers and CPOs when they were converted to civilian mariners.

[@fredericrike5974]

An other note- the "medium landing ship" is a specialized, full military vessel; it would be useless to deliver aid over a beach as we did in Gaza. The RORO based design would also let different mission packages be changed out much more simply, with fewer changes to the silhouette. A more standardized design it would be more possible to either keep more engineering spares up or new engineering updates made provision for. And one needs to be able to launch orbit capable vessels to set up short term encrypted communications with- a single shot, dozen satellite package. This would give the fleet at sea a locally controlled on way communications system. This, just as a thought on the different mission packages.

[@obliviouz]

I think the main reason is that it's a SOC ship for SOC missions, not volume drone/helo missions, and part of its advantage is basically security by obscurity. The more you have, the bigger that public profile of the class of ship and you risk losing that advantage.

[@TheSubHunter1]

Have first hand experience with this flensburg type they are great ships very versatile and capable They are also very good for HA/DR missions

[@JelMain]

That's how we got the skijump - Fairey Engineering played with containers and scaffolding. In fact, you've sen one swinging in behind hurricanes in the Carribbean recently.

[@joshuaford4460]

I had been wondering about this exact thing over the last couple months. I remember reading a technothriller years ago that covered an idea similar to this (William Lovejoy - White Night, cant remember if its any good though, and then obviously the oregon files). Then discussion of ROROs in more recent times got me thinking if this was ever gonna be a thing. Turns out it already is! Definitely could see things like this becoming more of a norm, especially if more traditional warships struggle to counter small unmanned drones. Blending in and using the chance of misidentification as deterrence might very well be the future. Just seems more cost effective, and easier to get into production too.

[@LackofFaithify]

Converting from whales³ to kg/m³ is always such a hassle.

[@user-mp3eq6ir5b]

Yes, but... Is that a flaccid (dead/beached) whale or a fully erect and wide awake one?

[@rudolfpeterudo3100]

Even converting from whales to Barrels has a US kind of ring about it

[@pistonburner6448]

It's easier if you convert from whales to olympic pools first, and then to metric. Whales is a central measuring unit in the maritime world because it's the most important one used in the cruise ship industry...they make their money from how many whales they can fit onto their floating high-rise barges and into the buffet lines.

[@RWBHere]

Good old football fields per acre feet Fahrenheit...

[@keessturm2804]

The dutch goverment also charters two RoRo chips without conversion. The Sourhern Rock is a small RORO with open deck, used behoren to load projectcargo, and a bigger one the New Amsterdam.

[@TheIntellectualRedneck]

This video made me want to write a congressman; I'm not even American. Great video as usual, Sal.

[@Bill-y4h]

The US already has a type of missile destroyer that can sink nearly below the water and be undetectable to radar . It can also make slower headway with just the upper decks exposed making it very hard to see or detect . It can also launch missiles while almost submerged .

[@hardware1197]

Interesting report and a great suggestion on asset planning. Reminds me of how China is requiring all their civilian ro-ro ferries to have ramps capable of handling the tonnage of military tanks and transports so they can be easily drafted into service and appear as civilian vessels while tooling around with tanks and troops.

[@dmikulec]

I remember back in the 1970s that one of the selling points of the USN Tarawa class LPA was it could become a mobile seaborne hospital.

[@truecerium4924]

The Chinese are doing something even more stealthy: oceangoing ferries and RoRos have to have provisions to accommodate PLA troops, i.e having latch options to secure tanks, trucks etc. And it reminds me of pre-WW1 and pre-WW2 when merchant vessels built in the UK and the German Empire had to have strong points to mount guns and blends to hide torpedo launchers in case of war. These became merchant raiders.

[@wgowshipping]

I have been following that for a while.

[@wyldhowl2821]

They still put commerce at the service of their country. In the west we unfortunately we do it the other way around.

[@westleaf11]

Hi Sal, Take a look at Tacoma. There are 6 vehicle carriers waiting to unload and no ships at the piers. I’m pretty sure that all the parking lots are full. Five of the carriers are at the Manchester anchorage. John

[@wgowshipping]

John...thanks for the heads up. I will look into it. That is strange.

[@paulkersey2179]

Agree, that is a great concept.

[@13699111]

%100

[@NolanPeterson-rh1cd]

All Hail Sal the maritime industry Spokesmen bringing attention to the sector via KZbin

[@nozrep]

we’re not worthy! we’re not worthy!

[@ElijahPerrin80]

Thankfully they have a good manufacturing ability for the LCAC replacement so scaling would be easier.

[@williamhettchen6496]

Considering that the US is backlogged for years with its maintenance of Navy ships, using a commercial ship built overseas makes a lot of sense. It can be serviced anywhere. It is contracted, so we don't have to wait for half a decade for the military procurement system to order it or buy the ship, instead just lease it. They can even convert existing ships, so we could have them ready quickly.

[@mattc.310]

The problem is that this approach makes sense. The government will never do it. Thanks for the upload, Professor.

[@shawntaber4475]

Your suggestion is a great one! However, the pentagon will do everything in their power to make the vessels useless!

[@skozer22]

My understanding on this subject matter is so limited to the point where I don't feel I would be contributing in a meaningful way. But, I find your videos interesting and your presentation is very professional. So, I am leaving this comment to say thank you and hopefully help you with the algorithm.

[@1PorscheCaymanS]

Questions: 1. Does the US produce the type of steel which would be used to build these types of vessels? 2. If the US produces this steel, how much can be produced domestically to support simultaneous construction (how many could be built at the same time)? 3. Given 1 and 2, how much shipyard capacity in the US exists to actually build these ships (again, how many could be constructed simultaneously)? I ask these questions because of the seeming horror story of how the US cannot both maintain its current navy and build additional ships at the same time. We seem to be missing a LOT of infrastructure necessary for maintaining ourselves as a maritime nation. Perhaps a separate video on this topic?

[@MrJwh3000]

That's none of your business China!

[@1PorscheCaymanS]

@@MrJwh3000 Sorry...red blooded American here asking questions related to our nation's ability to defend itself (or better stated...defend our interests as a maritime power). I'll note the recent Wall Street Journal report on the US using South Korea to supplement our shipbuilding and repair capability. The fact that we need to do that for both capacity and technology reasons is a cause for concern.

[@MrJwh3000]

@@1PorscheCaymanS I would have to agree with you. The Koreans have been building our ships for a long time now. The only thing made in America now is Simps and loose women.

[@randyclyde4939]

On target, Sal! Thanks for another most interesting video! Be well, be safe!

[@JoanneLeon]

Nice to know they're doing that work in Phila, right near me. Thanks4 the heads up

[@mark1sown]

Wow, thanks for the update, I feel like I m missing something if I don't check this report out ✌️🤠👌

[@robgun1895]

Love your channel! Hope all is well.

[@phlogistanjones2722]

Thank you Sal. Always a voice of reason and rationality. The U.S. used to build Q ships but of course that was "war time". It was also long, long before the Navy decided that having a large, multi-ship fleet was just such a bore. Now they have a some gee-whiz, Jim-Crack sooper-dooper ships. Like... a hand full. They really are not interested in "value-for-cost" or "doing the mundane jobs" it seems... They surely do like ships that run 100's of millions or billions of dollars in cost though. Guess that can be "sourced" to many, many congress-critter districts whereas YOUR suggestions tend to be more efficient and don't really need 687,495 sub-contractors from all "fifty-one states". Ah well.... Peaceful Skies.

[@charlesphillips4575]

I wanted this back in the 70s. I called it a “low cost air capable ship.” The main difference with my idea is I wanted an island superstructure and a proper flight deck. It would normally operate practically empty with the ability to fly additional capabilities to it as required.

[@johngibson3837]

Hey up sal super good video that ship makes so much sense to me, thank you for your channel mate

[@randomhodgepodge8902]

Read a thriller book this summer that featured a super high tech stealth ship. At first I thought it was fantasy but curious enough to look it up. Fascinating!:) Bound to be the way of the future since tech doesn't show signs of slowing down anytime soon. Yup, we need more of them!

[@adrianklaver113]

So our enemies don't have satellites or port surveillance? I would say there is 0 to close to 0 chance they don't where it is and what it is doing. Now I can see the relatively low cost part of the argument.

[@allangibson8494]

The Houthi and Somali pirates don’t have satellite surveillance…

[@glennchartrand5411]

It's political. A modified tanker off the coast garners less public reaction than an obvious warship. Ocean Trader is able to pull into port without causing a political crisis.

[@AutoReport1]

Satellites have to be watching the right spot. And port surveillance only works when one is close to port. What if you think there's one, but really there's two or three or more.

[@MerchantMarineGuy]

It’s not about hiding it from THEM it’s about hiding it from YOU

[@kylesmith8783]

I saw mv ocean trader from my destroyer in the first island chain on a deployment while conducting a certain operation, it is extremely effective at its purpose

[@jimmyconway8025]

Yes we need more of these esp with the rise of both air and sea drones. We need a fleet of mother ships Plus maybe some specialized in electronic anti drone warfare. Those could even be autonomous or with limited crews.

[@ianellisjones]

epic episode Sal! learned a ton, thanks for sharing

[@wgowshipping]

Thanks for setting this episode up with your thread.

[@SeanBZA]

Should buy a few identical RORO ships, and paint them identically, and convert them identically as well, even down to painting openings in that are not present, so those with one look like the others. then you make it hard to track them at all.

[@Blast-Radius]

Doesn't hiding war ships in the commercial sector put commercial ships at risk?

[@ludaMerlin69]

YES.

[@ptonpc]

Terrorists and nut-bags prefer to target commercial ships as they are far less likely to be able to defend themselves. So this is not adding any real risk to commercial ships.

[@grahammonk8013]

@Blast-Radii Thing is....commercial ships are already being attacked.

[@Blast-Radius]

@@grahammonk8013 Not from this story...duh

[@thevnbastid1027]

does an islam care?? source?

[@laurenglass4514]

Always great ideas and suggestions. I keep wondering why people like you are not listened to when planning and getting the most bang for the buck in operational matters and the types of ships needed .

[@13699111]

I agree we need intelligent advisors in government

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

The SMS Seeadler (1888) was a gorgeous ship.

[@nekomakhea9440]

"Q Ship" might be more accurate, "Stealth ship" made me think they were trying to give the DDG-1000 style radar stealth thing another go despite how poorly it went the last couple of times they tried it.

[@ptonpc]

The Royal Navy had military ships built to commercial standards, (HMS Ocean and her sister if I recall). They were completely unsuitable for what the RN needed them to do and needed massive upgrades to meet even minimum standards. They ended up being retired sooner than planned as they were worn out.

[@lukedogwalker]

Ocean had no sister. She was a one-off purchase. He procurement model, which involved building to Lloyd's ship rules and "militarising" it afterwards, was an experiment. Ocean had problems but was not a failure in terms of the capability provided during her service. She was not retired early and not worn out: she was sold to Brazil without replacement as a stealth defense cut.

[@Carlos-im3hn]

yes. Sal great information! Note: @4:21 the ship company is LLC, not incorporated (Inc)...which is a business and legal distinction. Finance and customer business is probably difficult to justify to the banks and financiers. If there is a great and verified long-term demand there would be more built.

[@DWalsh-bg1cu]

Sal - LOVE you in Philadelphia. This is 100% the info I have yearned for since the Ever Given jammed the Suez Canal (March 2021.) Content then was thin and weak. Not so much now since your timely & learned work articulately presents densely packs relevant facts & commentary available to ... well ... every English speaking person everywhere. Anywho Be the Light against the Dark Jack Harrowgate, Phila., PA ---- USA ----

[@russwoodward8251]

A fascinating vessel. Thanks Sal.

[@radiosnail]

A good idea. But their merchantile hulls are less able to accept battle damage. But that has been accepted before. The British Light Fleet carriers of late WW2 were described as having "merchantile hulls"

[@allangibson8494]

So were the imperial Japanese Army aircraft carriers and American escort carriers.

[@radiosnail]

@@allangibson8494 Good point. I'd heard of Japanese Army carriers, but did not know they had merchantile hulls

[@ecossearthur]

Using converted tankers means everything is double skinned..

[@allangibson8494]

@@radiosnail The IJA carriers were mostly converted passenger ships with an additional flight deck. Passenger ships tend to be faster than cargo ships.

[@georgeburns7251]

In both WW1 and Ww2, the Brits used merchant ships as convey escorts. They called them armed cruisers.

[@alexphelps7042]

I think the problem with stealth ships is every other large ship on the planet being clearly labeled and reporting where it’s been, currently is & most likely will be. If you ever encounter a vessel not doing those things you already know something is out of the ordinary sending a drone to check it out visually is basically free & all the largest countries will have been tracking it from space since it left port

[@brianshields7137]

Hi Sam, Australia has had roro conversions as navy vessel for nearly 20 years back as far as the temor conflict and has supplied one to the us for evaluation that the us is now building in the us ( Inc cat )

[@GeneralLizations]

Very compelling, should send it to folks at the Naval Post-Grad school see if they pick up on this.

[@widescreennavel]

Shows up as a two-car garage on radar. My world came together as one, when RM Brown used a clip from What's Going On on his great show, you were the star, the expert we all are looking for. Peace!

[@sundragon7703]

The window of opportunity for vessels similar to the Ocean Trader may be closing. The US Navy doctrine pendulum is swinging toward preparing for a peer adversary. Littoral programs are being pushed aside or reassigned to partner nations.

[@charlottewinder2491]

I found you via YT suggestions. I live nesr the Chesapeake, but that is as close as I come to ships. However, I'm hooked on your channel 😅. Do tou think you could do an episode on "wind ships". I was listening to something about them regarding pollution etc and was interested in your thoughts. Thanks

[@joss.4462]

The FSG shipyard is not in Kiel, but in Flensburg. This is a city 150km north of Kiel directly on the German-Danish border.

[@Ricardoteh345rd]

These are like the 4 "point class sealift" of ships based out of Hythe Southampton UK they have been used by the Royal navy at times for over seas operations also similar type vessels used as commercial ferry routes are the uk excellent vessels.

[@wgowshipping]

The Point are a bit smaller.

[@allangibson8494]

@@wgowshippingThe Royal Navy is a bit smaller…

[@Ricardoteh345rd]

​@@wgowshippingcheers sal I see the point class nearly everyday if the are in port.

[@Ricardoteh345rd]

​@@allangibson8494agree has 2 of the most ugliest aircraft carriers and it's a shadow former self.

[@jonwooddell3966]

Glad I wasn't taking a drink when you dropped the Voltron reference! LOL

[@NickMackenzieMD]

Very good points. Makes sense to me.

[@fafner1]

Don't forget the TOTE Orca class RO/RO vessels. Designed and built in the US they would be a great base for the type of vessel you are describing.

[@olpaint71]

We need to expand on this program as part of an overhaul of our maritime strategy. One ship, procured from foreign sources, is of limited use. And before we shovel more US dollars overseas, we need to start buying domestically instead of continually accepting "quick fixes" that permit the continued decline of the US shipbuilding and US flag carriers. We have about 100 ships in the NDRF/RRF. We should be continually refreshing this fleet with ships that have some commercial utility as well as national defense features. If we implemented a 30 year lifecycle on the fleet, that means we should be buying 3-4 ships/year, every year. That would keep the fleet up to date (instead of stocked with ships needing steam engineers when there's no merchant marine source for such skills). It would create the numbers of common ships for the SOF platforms to not stick out like a sore thumb. And it would create a baseline demand that could be spread across US shipbuilders and suppliers to start reinvigorating the US commercial shipbuilding and merchant marine. In the intervening years since procuring the MV Ocean Trader on the global market, what have we done to follow up this stop-gap solution with a long-term US source strategy? Not a thing.

[@jamesburns8247]

I like your Voltran model and there should be many of them.

[@Wizzyhatg]

Maybe we do have more, and we just can't see them?

[@wgowshipping]

Perhaps!

[@BrokefishN]

100% we need more of these!!! Hope DOD watch this and agrees!

[@AndrooH]

It would be 40-something years ago I read an article about the benefits of converting a container ship to carry Harrier jets. Outwardly looks like any other container ship but able to move close to a theatre and launch a strike.

[@MM22966]

It's been done (Brits), but there was nothing "sneaky" about it.

[@Richard-od7yd]

In Naval Parlence the Vessel in question is called an A G I , an Advanced Gatherer of Intelligence. The Soviet Navy used to have them sitting within sight of the Sea Bouy off every Point of Entry on the East Coast. They are usually know to just be listening to radio traffic and a passive sonar set .

[@amariner5]

Thanks Dr. Sal. One of the issues plaguing the Navy is the shortage of VLS tubes. Would VLS tubes, on a paramilitary vessel comply with conventions? The most pressing for me is the defense of US ships at sea, to secure the sea lanes of communication, particularly in a near-peer conflict. Would these vessels be protectors or need protecting? For example, the USS MOUNT WHITNEY is not bristling with offensive capacity, and should remain under the umbrella of warfighters. Again, thank you.

[@Ganiscol]

I believe 'whales' is in the tradition of using the standardized US unit of measurement 'football field', whereas 3 blue whales equals one football field in length. If we talk about weight, the standardized US unit of Boeing 747-400 applies, where two blue whales equal one such plane at max. take-off weight. Given that the ground dwellers and bird people have their special units of measurement, it is only fair that the seafarers get theirs - the whale! 😅

[@blaydCA]

@@Ganiscol The USA uses Freedom Units. Long Ton, Short Ton, and Shit Ton

[@qbi4614]

Well, the inch was defined as “three grains of barley, dry and round, placed end to end lengthwise.”

[@davetunbridge6637]

So where does the banana fit in here as a standard of measurement 🤪

[@qbi4614]

@@davetunbridge6637 That depends if its a finger banana or a standard banana it all comes down to pole vaulting measurements

[@davetunbridge6637]

@@qbi4614 best get a banana measuring stick from Curtis at Cutting Edge Engineering 🥸

[@tomriley5790]

The Litoral Combat ship is an atempt to replace the assault ships and the RFAs alongside the in one vessel, the closest existing one is RFA Argus probably. Britain doesn't have a military sealift command equivalent the national strategy has always been to take them up from the merchant fleet - probably as historically alot were available. The MRSS project by the way is already 20 (I'm not joking) years old or so....

[@wgowshipping]

They are using Argus and a modified LSD (A) as a substitute.

[@ramjam720]

Can carry up to 4 "BlueWhales" which are large AUVs or drone submarines.

[@patrickchase5614]

The ESBs like the Puller are a lot more flexible and capable for anything where we don't want deniability, and for anything that requires true stealth we have submarines with dry deck shelters. The Ocean Trader sort of sits in an uneasy middle position, and I suspect that's why we're not seeing more of them. Doesn't perating millitary ships under false flag as you suggest have treaty implications as well? I do agree with the overall concept of converting Ro-Ros for a variety of tasks, just not sure that SpecOps should be one of them,

[@justanavgguy7802]

Mobility, versatility, stealth, unmanned offensive & defensive capabilities and economy are absolutes in fulfilling the maritime mission! When will we ever learn?