USS Momsen & USS Harpers Ferry Maneuvering in San Diego Ship Channel - November 29, 2022 (Part I)

[@bweresquirrel8279]

Evenhanded analysis like this is why I love your channel. Keep doing what you're doing. Former US Navy stationed out of San Diego, have been on the bridge and seen recreational vessels doing precisely the kinds of things you describe as possible factors. Excellent presentation.

[@blinpyxa69]

Sal is always on top of any marime news. I had zero expertise in marine but after his videos i feel like i am a sailor with 10 years of experience behind my shoulders. Thank you.

[@mattc.310]

"The chaos that is San Diego Bay" hits the nail on the head. It would be interesting to see what may have led up to this. All's well that ends well. Thanks for the report.

[@robertlevine2152]

Sal, I owned a sailboat that was berthed at one of the marinas on Harbor Island (2nd island in the video) on San Diego Bay. I sailed San Diego Bay and the waters off Point Loma for years. I was always amazed at the stupidity of many of the recreational boaters. For some unknown reason many recreational boaters do not understand the concept of mass and momentum. In the case of mass, large ships will win the battle when it comes to an encounter with a recreational boat. This is why I always moved out of the channel when I saw a deep draft vessel approaching. In this case bigger is better. When it comes to momentum, maneuvering and stopping large vessels especially in a channel is very difficult. This is why it is imperative that recreational boaters understand that they need to keep clear of deep draft vessels. Even if a recreational vessel, under some incredible circumstance, has the right of way, when push comes to shove the deep draft vessel is going to win. I should mention that I also sailed in and out of San Diego Bay on three different 188,500 DWT tankers. On each of these transits the USCG provided an escort to keep recreational boaters a safe distance away. I remember talking with the Masters of the tankers about recreational boaters. They all hated coming into harbors like LA/LB or San Francisco on Saturdays or Sundays because of recreational boaters. It would have been nice to see the passage of the two vessels in the video from an aerial view. Unfortunately the video shows a two dimensional view from Point Loma looking into San Diego Bay. It is impossible to tell how close the vessels are to one another. Bob

[@travelertime4382]

Even if a recreational vessel, under some incredible circumstance, has the right of way, when push comes to shove the deep draft vessel is going to win...thus the unwritten rule, give that big bastard the right of way. Actually there is a rule. Off the top of my head it has to do with the keywords "when constrained by draft. "

[@buddystewart2020]

Sort of like defensive driving. Don't worry so much about who is right, you can also be dead right. Instead, do the safe thing and arrive alive.

[@sagsfv3122]

Soooo, in this case then the Destroyer is the recreational boater..... FIGURES! (I'm a Tin Can Vet)

[@pupfield]

I saw this a few days ago. Earlier, they had agreed over the radio to pass on port to port. I guess they forgot.

[@eherrmann01]

Great video Sal. Harpers Ferry is another ship that I worked on when it was being built, glad they didn't bang up "my" ship :)

[@Carlos-im3hn]

Thank you Sal. question: maybe there is a channel dredging/draft issue (deeper channel to the south) ?

[@billmiller1445]

As usual, another great job explaining. Thank you. An interesting meeting and passing.

[@tonycarrillo9499]

Regardless of the Coast Guard "designating" San Diego Harbor is a narrow channel, I would argue that Rule 9 applied more than Rule 14. Though, the effect would have been the same, i.e. passing port-to-port. Momsen's port turn makes sense since that's where safe water was for her. Harpers Ferry, on the other hand, can exit the channel on the red side without running aground.

[@TheWizardGamez]

saying the burke can turn like a ferrari is quite an understatement. the turn rate is crazy

[@charlestuozzolo7283]

As a submarine sailor from 40 years ago I was used to learning lots of shiphandling from our Surface Ship comrades. Not knowing the whole story as you say makes it hard to know what all transpired. Perhaps there was a wind issue so ships stayed toward North Island side as they might be set toward SD. Also Momsen is not homeported in SD so that may be why they had a pilot onboard. In any case in the old days I would have expected the CO's or at least the OOD's on channel 13 agreeing to a port-to-port or stdb-to-stbd passage. Back then we did not have AIS so maybe the ships dont use bridge-to-bridge anymore. Having traveled to SD many times in the last few years (business) and walked down Harbor Island Drive a lot I do agree that lots of small boats and yes sailboats obstruct the fairway. Always frustrating when you are on a big vessel. Used to happen a lot on the approaches to New London. Great article. Would interesting if any current Navy sailors can shed some light on current practices in SD. I remember it relatively OK in clear weather but of course more difficult in reduced vis.

[@KutWrite]

As a former surface OOD underway and for sea-and-anchor detail, we also hoisted flags stating speed and intentions if unusual. There was a lot of radio traffic, so we saved that for dire situations. We only used docking pilots once well within the channel, in order to coordinate with the tugs. He used whistle signals and a walkie-talkie. I marveled at the agility of those grizzled old pilots, hopping off their moving boats and climbing hand-over-hand up a ladder to our main deck.

[@neshotah1976]

Seen this a few times in my Navy career, use of the radio ahead of time, prevents confusion of the intensions of each vessel. Sometimes we had a language barrier, that is when our bi-lingual shipmates helped out! Good video and explanation for those landlubbers.

[@bernarrcoletta7419]

I don't know if you remember the movie "Boatniks", but it took place in the chaos which is San Diego harbor.

[@wardrobelion]

Great content! I learned a lot from this video today. Very informative.

[@scottn7cy]

Regarding the sailboats I recall the 80s being different. There was a Greenpeace sailboat that decided to pull in front of a SSBN and stop to block him. The SSBN didn't even slow down as it went through the sailboat. Those were the good old days,

[@ralhmcc47]

Scotty did the SSBN pick up survivors. Besides how many people can say ' I was run over by a SSBN" '

[@ZGryphon]

Submarines are not well-known for their great visibility. They probably never knew that sailboat was there in the first place...

[@KutWrite]

@@ZGryphon Well, if this story really happened, the sub could be found at fault, as the sailboat would have the right of way. Subs do have a conning station atop the sail, AND radar. If they were submerged, they'd be far below the sailboat.

[@gandydancer9710]

@@KutWrite USCG: "The ultimate rule is always to avoid collision." "Blocking" the movement of a submarine is not that. The sailboat (which, is, btw a power boat if it is using its engine) forfeited its right of way with that behavior. This rule also means the sub should have avoided the collision if it could, but right of way is not an issue. And of course the degree of depth to which a sub may be submerged at any time ranges right down to zero feet, so THAT is wrong too.

[@kenhedrick3366]

The more maneuverable vessel went around the less maneuverable.

[@jamesburns8247]

I went in and out of there more than 20 times and never saw anything because I couldnt leave the Main Control

[@briankepner7569]

The only thing that is unknown here is the state of the channel. When was it last dredged is it maintained is it at proper depth what was the tide. I know I'm annoying. But the channel in my local bay erodes and isn't square. Around. Additionally due to tides in such the outside of any curve usually gets debris faster than the inside of the curve. That's what I was looking for trying to see what and how steep that curve is. I think if I read their map right there's a 2 ft title difference. So what is the draft of these two boats and were they trying to compensate for draft. If it's relevant. Thanks for the posts you know I always love your work. It comes to mine as we've had a few years of unusual events in the world and maybe they haven't kept up with the dredging

[@wgowshipping]

The channel is well maintained and both had plenty of room in it.

[@jamesbutler8821]

It always just boggles my mind how often ships and boats have collisions and close calls.

[@fryngeflashburn1463]

Makes me wonder if this will be a thing when( if) we have sustained space travel. I can see this happening even with billions of miles of empty space around them... humans are nutty like that. I can only imagine the ego spacecraft pilots would have... this would definitely happen.

[@KutWrite]

Yes. Many's the time when, as Navy OOD underway in independent steaming across the ocean, we'd show constant bearing, decreasing range for a merchant ship and have to maneuver, as the merchant would take no action before, during or after the encounter. These "sleepers" usually didn't dip colors either, indicating a definite lack of attention on their bridge... if not worse.

[@jamesbutler8821]

​@@fryngeflashburn1463 Travelling thru hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, kid. One wrong calculation and you are...etc"

[@fryngeflashburn1463]

@@jamesbutler8821 I love your optimism! I wager we will never achieve travel speeds of greater than 50% the speed of light. Hyperspace travel? Like I said, I like your optimism.

[@jamesbutler8821]

​@@fryngeflashburn1463It was a Han Solo quote from Star Wars

[@sw0i]

OK, this is minor in the overall scheme of things, but I think as mariners we have a responsibility to get it right, especially if there are aspiring mariners in the audience: You mentioned the COLREGS several times, but it appears to me that this incident occurred well inside of the COLREGS Line and thus these vessels are operating under the Inland Rules and not the COLREGS, which very specifically are the International Rules. Yes, *most* of the particular rules involved here happen to be identical between the two rule sets. That said, in Inland Rules, these vessels were obligated to communicate their meeting intentions via the Bridge to Bridge radio channel or by whistles. This is a "two whistle" pass. Those signals and signalling requirements are different outside the COLREGS Line, where the COLREGS (International Rules) apply.

[@wgowshipping]

You are exactly correct. I note that in my follow up video that will drop tomorrow. It should be the Rules of the Road, but COLREGS is similar on its interpretation of this event. Thanks for the comment and watching.

[@rgloria40]

mmm...still have not replace that green buoy... Looks to me someone blocking it replacement after a NAVY ship snag onto it... There is a difference between the navigation track and actual Navigation Position., Speed, and Direction. COLREGS are rules however, many nation DO NOT, DO NOT maintain it at top notch due to "BUDGET." In fact, the last, time discounting a maintenance budget other than to support pension liabilities was over a decade ago. Rules of the Road, COLREGS and maritime maneuvering experience takes into account of international politics, human nature and acts of god.

[@northerncaptain855]

As usual nicely explained-good job!

[@davidleethompsoniii8263]

WRONG! What's wrong with America so many FOLKS... this is a nothing about technicalities and colors and inland or Outland it's common sense. In America... Wee drive on the Rights side. U Brits! LOL

[@wgowshipping]

Exactly correct. I rectified that in my follow up video.

[@paul9114]

The Marine Track is enlightening especially if hugging the red buoys is commonplace. The HF has a sizable sail area and that wind seems to be kicking pretty good from her stbd. Another great video, thanks.

[@laurenglass4514]

Great information and video I like hearing watching the vast topics you present. Very clear communication. Thank you again

[@mikecoombs3972]

Good Explanation. Makes perfect sense based on my 20 years in the Navy.

[@thafunktapus]

Agree that it seems like they would have known about one another and made passing arrangements a little earlier. Would the skipper be on the bridge as a matter of course here? Looks to me like somebody on both bridges got it together in an appropriate hurry. How close/fast were they when they began to come to port? From that angle it looks pretty close, but maybe if we were viewing it from abeam it would look a little more comfortable? I always watch your vids. Great channel. You are definitely part of my newsgathering lineup.

[@danodamano2581]

Reminds me of people driving in my subdivision in the middle of the skreet until they they see an oncoming car.

[@KutWrite]

...and even continuing after they see it... or a pedestrian (me).

[@ricardokowalski1579]

3:30 Boat1: Hey. #49, we will turn left to get out of your way. Ok with ya? Boat2: Hey #92. Cool, thanks! This tub of rust turns like a fat pig. We will also turn left. Appreciate it, bro. Media: US Navy playing chicken with multi-million dollar ships in daring display of hubris. 😱 ======== 5:00 to 5;20 Did the Harper's Ferry use a bow thruster to mantain alignment? There is a wake coming off the bow towards the bouy.

[@peglegpete6656]

Maybe we should make a rule and an easy way to remember it. How about red right returning, oh wait

[@bronson7130]

Excellent presentation. Clear, comprehensive descriptions.

[@weslemarble5644]

If you go back about 3 min before this clip starts, the Momsen was on the port bow of the harpers ferry, and might have done a port-port had they turned Starboard then, however, they stood on an actually crossed the bow of the harpers ferry before coming Starboard, setting up the above exchange. Even so, the port-port would have been very close.

[@MOUNTAINMANJJ]

The Harpers Ferry did not allow room for the Momson to pass port to port. In earlier audio the Momson asks for confirmation of P t P passing and got a garbled reply, not waiting for a good reply and knowing there was impending collision, the Momson took evasive action with a turn to port. She broadcast that intention and got a reply from HF that they were turning to port as well.

[@Old_Indian_Trick]

Anchors are always ready to drop when in Sea and Anchor Detail (moving in or out of port)

[@wgowshipping]

Not everyone knows that and Momsen had her port anchor under foot.

[@Old_Indian_Trick]

@@wgowshipping ya seemed like an odd circumstance all around.

[@MikeHunt-c5p]

Was this filmed from the three winged hotel ? 0:46

[@johnheaneay9940]

Sal from ex retired Master MN. Excellent description and detailed explanation of the Maritime regs and environment. Best explanation I have ever seen. Totally agree with your summation.A Bit poor degree of o'all nav re Navy and sets a Civilian example of' doing the Basically WRONG thing. But Yes quite allowable.It is the basic understanding of the o'all situation that matters. Anyway Congrats and excellent work John H Retired master U/k- AUS

[@alandaters8547]

Exactly (from this non-sailor)! With 2022 navigation systems, it would seem that the Harper's Ferry should not have to stay to the left side of the channel just so they can see more bouys. Hopefully there is a better reason than that. If navy ships routinely just "does their own thing", they surely cannot complain about civilians doing the same.

[@ImNotPotus]

"This is a light house its your call......"

[@jamesalles139]

fascinating. Thanks Were they really all that close to collision? We are looking at a distant zoomed-in view which is notorious for not providing any depth perception.

[@DavenDavina]

Thanks for the explanation, I thought this was a nothing story when I first saw it. For whatever reason the outbound ship’s position in the narrow channel prevented a Red to Red pass. They both agreed to a Green to Green and executed it safely, likely with the harbour pilot’s sanction. The US Navy is the second best on the entire planet with officers perfectly capable of such a manoeuvre.

[@roderickcampbell2105]

Awesome. Very narrow with almost no room for error. I thought the Momsen was amazing. How a vessel can come about like that is stunning. Very happy no one was hurt. San Diego is a great harbour, but "not really big".

[@uncledako]

The view is end on making them look closer than they really are. A bit of parallax. I was stationed in SD on the Comstock (basically same class ship) but it was too long ago to remember much. I do think there is a tide that pushes away so you hug the red buoys and the nav aids on the green side are harder to come by.

[@wgowshipping]

Talking with a pilot, I agree. But the question is why they both ended up close to the same point at the same time.

[@SubTroppo]

Surely the problem is the Jones Act! :) ...and perhaps the visual distance between green channel markers.

[@brianh2771]

“Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.”

[@mikejohnson4617]

Thunderbolt and Lightfoot?

[@brianh2771]

@@mikejohnson4617 U.S. Army, I think...Though I picked it up from a sailor.

[@mikejohnson4617]

@@brianh2771 You're right, sounds like it originated in the military. I believe Clint Eastwood used it in his movie also.

[@jerryodell1168]

Having sailed in and out of San Diego many times when I was in the US Navy, the channel there is a cluttered nightmare day and night. All ships coming and going must use extreme caution. Many times strange adjustments are made for safety.

[@KutWrite]

As a qualified OOD underway in large and small Navy vessels, I encountered a few senior captains aboard larger ships who would "bully" vessels with junior captains to make their passage easier or to enter port ahead of a vessel with the right of way to proceed first. In one instance I had to call for emergency blasts on the horn and make a left circle to avoid an extremis situation. I was about to tell the signalmen on duty to hoist flags spelling out "Rule 15" but my CO, now on the bridge, refused to send a message or otherwise complain of the other captain's dangerous action. My CO made vice-admiral, I left at the end of my service obligation.

[@AntiComposite]

Another thing to note here is that the webcam is significantly zoomed in. That collapses the frame and makes everything look closer to each other than it really is.

[@Mr67Stanger]

Very interesting. I learned a lot from this. Thumbs-Up.

[@jamesnewbery4034]

The view shows the pass was farther down the channel then you indicated. The fact that the moorage on the end of Shelter Island is behind them, places the position where the channel hooks and narrows is where the ships passed.

[@cliffelliott9331]

I think the one thing you omitted was a cut away order to the tug boat.

[@flight2k5]

The anchor isn’t under foot. It’s dipped Standard practice for a ddg.

[@paolabulgari6298]

Code Hotel is raised on the MOM and not on the HF. No pilot onboard HF on outbound traffic?

[@furtsmagee1513]

Thank you for the video sal

[@edmctug8800]

All good points Capt Sal ,some times there are close calls and bet there are lot more that nobodys sees Both vessles agreed on passing signals 2 whistles all good !

[@paulmccormick5042]

Winds and tides may also have been a factor. Either fighting them or simply accounting fot them. The larger vessel would certainly be more affected.

[@frosty3693]

What I was thinking and also wondering it there may be some question of shoaling on the north side of the channel that discression would want to avoid. I am guessing probably not as it is a busy port and would be well maintained. Judging from the signal flags wind should not have been an issue but tidal current, could be. But I am not an expert but a NC resident where channel markers might need to be taken with a grain of salt.

[@ginog5037]

With today's navigation systems takes alot of that into account. It amazes me TODAY their are more close calls then ever before. Use the old standbys hones and radios...

[@frosty3693]

@@ginog5037 If it is like some other systems it might require more people than considered. One to be in charge, but another the make sure the auto nav system is doing what it is supposed to do and that is what you want it to do. But I would expect a naval vessel to run a larger crew than that. But no harm done and if the camera lens was a telephoto it would compress the view and the ships were further apart than it appeared.

[@keithnorris6348]

Very informative thank you Sal.

[@dennisoleary7515]

Biggest issue I see is they should have made meeting arrangements earlier. Also from the camera angle it’s difficult to know the distance between the vessels when the video starts but from this angle it looks like they began the maneuver late.

[@travelertime4382]

Wow, great point. A landing ship, (a rotary powered aircraft carrier ?) is huge even if it does not seem so in the video, so they must have been further apart than it appears. If the passed safely it was not very late.

[@captdennis70435]

@@travelertime4382 Harper’s Ferry Class LSD is just under 610’ x 85’. Big for a naval vessel but not compared to other ships and should be pretty maneuverable compared to other ships. I was Captain of MV Cape Domingo, AKR-5053. She was 681’ x 95. Great handling ship and best job of my life.

[@travelertime4382]

@@captdennis70435 Draft ? And my point about lots of freeboard seems fair. So do they maneuver as well as destroyer ? Thanks for the info . Did you ever pass starboard to starboard ?Just saying, Cap.

[@captdennis70435]

@@travelertime4382 When I was navigating on inland waters I might request a Stbd to Stbd meeting or agree to one proposed by the other vessel. No issue there as long as arrangements were made with sufficient time to get on that side of the channel. As for Draft there is adequate water in the channel for both of those vessels to meet anyway they want. Again the issue is making arrangements in a timely manner. The post said the audio and video were not in sync so we really don’t know how far the two ships were apart when agreement was made. I didn’t see anything in the discussion of freeboard and don’t understand what that has to do with this situation.

[@mikegracie3212]

Harper's Ferry was significantly left of track. My experience was that the ship's would have made an arrangement long before the DDG had to maneuver so hard.

[@nexusgamering]

They made arrangements in the channel its all good!

[@tgmct]

Starboard to starboard looks like a good call to me. From the photo there is a clear offset in this head-on situation. I would say that the Burke class maneuvers more like a tugboat than a Ferrari though. I’ve never maneuvered in San Diego or any other west coast port, so I can’t speak from experience. But these ships hugging the red side might have something to do with the prevailing currents there.

[@KaiGooon]

It’s been a while since I’ve transited SD but I remember the currents being not overly egregious to handle. I’ve always found DDG’s to handle quite nimbly whereas LSD’s like to slide and their stern really whips around once you get that rudder over.

[@tgmct]

@@KaiGooon LSD's are effectively a flat bottom boat.

[@KaiGooon]

@@tgmct I mean…they get a little pointy at the stem but yeah :V

[@tgmct]

@@KaiGooon I went out on the original sea trials of the USS Portland (LSD-37). We ended up in a whole gale in the Gulf of Maine. I got to find out how well that boat didn't ride! People who got sick were told to go to the well deck where it would be flooded before we got back in port.

[@mattguey-lee4845]

They didn't collide or burn the ship so I'd put that in the win column. I think they handled it reasonable well once it was clear they were headed for a collision. Somebody made a command decision to call the other ship and agree on a turn.

[@roderickcampbell2105]

Agreed Matt Guey-Lee. Better to be on a YT video than in international news. And likely some dead sailors.

[@aaaht3810]

Hopefully the officers of both ships will review this video and learn from it. Luckily, there was no collision and the ships continued on their way (sort of like "any landing you can walk away from is a good one"). It did look messy though and I have to agree that the situation could have been easily avoided. Don't know if there will be a formal investigation of this incident by the USN, but at least they have video.

[@weldrider1]

We had an incident about the same area with our Outgoing USS Pyro (AE-24) and a huge sailboat passing across Our Bow....Aside from the warning alarms and whistles our Skipper had to get on the 1MC and relay a message of disapproval! 🤣😂

[@wizerdjuice9589]

Am going to apply for the Captains position on both vessels.

[@madisonian50]

I have just a few day’s sailing in San Diego but we observed Navy harbor patrol ribs on the move. I think they would have made contact with an errant sailboat before a warship transited the channel?

[@WarbirdShooter]

Interesting to note that before going head to head with Momsen, Harpers Ferry was hugging the green buoys to make room for (inbound) USS Tripoli (LHA-7). Harpers Ferry and Tripoli passed port to port just before the J-turn (Harpers Ferry's perspective). kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYCkhYGGbJWnms0

[@festungkurland9804]

also it might be shallow on the outside and the harpers ferry draws more.

[@WilliamParmley]

Great discussion, thanks.

[@TargaWheels]

Looked ok. At the beginning the ships were off-centered to the starboard side. That would be the quickest way to avoid a collision. If they didn't verbally communicate, then there might have been a collision.

[@MOUNTAINMANJJ]

The Harpers Ferry did not allow room for the Momson to pass P t P. In earlier audio the Momson asks for confirmation of P t P passing and did not get a clear reply, knowing there was impending collision, the Momson took evasive action with a turn to port. She broadcast that intention and got a reply from HF that they were turning to port as well.

[@AllNighterHeider]

I fish there all the time in my kayak. At night the Navy seal teams wake me out with their patrols. Wish I could post a of picture of my SD bay chart. Thanks Sal

[@rhondaallen9813]

Great context!

[@anthonyroberts7987]

Whwn Pilots are on military vessels do they have control of the vessel or do they 'advise" the military personnel?

[@wgowshipping]

Pilots always advise, except in the Panama Canal and when drydocking.

[@farytorrente5298]

Great content, i will repeat!!!

[@chriskortan1530]

The negative events get the press and the every day doing things right isn't seen. But, I'm not sure the standard should be "Hey, we didnt crash !"

[@R-Lmaxan]

Do civilian ships fly a harbour pilot flag when they have pilots onboard or is it assumed that they always use pilots when entering and exiting a harbour?

[@robg9236]

Commercial ships usually will fly the Hotel flag when the pilot is on board

[@jtd8719]

Shades of Imo and Montcalm in Halifax Harbor.

[@HarryWHill-GA]

I learned the buoy rule from my grandfather as BPOE. The Best People on Earth leave Black Port On Entering.

[@michaelslade5747]

Was the Munson able to turn back to starboard to be able to stay in the channel?

[@wgowshipping]

Yes

[@AllNighterHeider]

If anyone has trouble remembering which side is port and which is starboard, I taugh myself by using P.S. post script like at the end of a letter. If you're facing the bow as though you're driving a vehicle and reading left to right post (P) like PORT is on the left and script (S) for STARBOARD is on the right. Hope that helps someone.

[@richardcampbell7645]

port and left are each 4 letters ending in t

[@ericvulgate]

Look up poop deck you might have some misconceptions.

[@kenlee5376]

As a lifelong sailor who ha spent years sailing that bay I’ll be interested to hear what else you find out. Like you at first I thought Harper’s Ferry was cutting the corner, but the track you showed indicates that is the normal course. Also those ships are much farther apart than they look due to how far the camera is from the on top of Point Loma.

[@alandaters8547]

If it really is a normal course in that channel, there should be a way to document that for all who use the port. In aviation there are notes for airports which explain if a right hand pattern (vs the normal left hand pattern) is used for a particular runway. Getting everyone "on the same page" is important for safety!

[@kd0r]

A two whistle pass should be just fine. It does look like Momson didn't shift her rudder in a timely manner. But, I wasn't on the bridge.

[@chuckhood9659]

Something I'll add, as it's counterintuitive to non-Navy folks, the smaller vessel, MOMSEN, has a considerably greater draft. No effect on the Head-On situation (Rule 14) per say, but it is worth considering when you have to leave the channel to avoid a collision.

[@captaindoug8887]

At 0907 you mentioned the downloaded chart program, "Marine Ways?"...laptop volume isnt enough...what exactly is it thanks for the explanation....so much for making passing arrangements early!

[@wgowshipping]

I provided the link in the show description. www.marineways.com/

[@pdqkevin]

I am certain there is much more to the story but I also remember the collisions you mentioned and that the BHR was in San Diego when it burned. I also watched a video of I believe it was the Nimetz from a week or two ago having to reverse and back up in that channel because it had arrived at 6am and the harbor pilot had been scheduled to meet at 7am.

[@tonyk0756]

Being used to the port of Venice Italy but having been into French and other European ports. They have traffic control on land. So two large ships would not be in a narrow part of the channel at the same time.

[@Lakridza67]

Wow! Playing chicken in a war ship is something right off the radar😱😳

[@timothywalker4563]

Some folks will “hit the roof over this” but the question is how text book do you want to be over this. It’s challenging for me handling an expensive canoe around a cheap aluminum canoe 🤔

[@nedsackmann2215]

What about GPS?

[@wgowshipping]

GPS would be used for their e-charts but usually for this style of navigation, it is visual sightings and radar.

[@petermiddo]

The only reason I remember this is that the US Navy fought hard for this camera to be removed, citing 'National Security' issues. I don't know if it's still available.

[@petermiddo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqW3e6Soa7x3o7csi=C7ytZKcNlThuHif-

[@wademchenry1560]

Instead of dealing with the core issue of ship handling the same bunch who sat and watched the BR burn at the dock got NPS to shut down SDWC's cams down.

[@jerrycomo2736]

5 years experience bridge watch Navy Destroyer and 15 years experience 3rd and 2nd Mate: 1. Additional rules of the road-two vessels meeting and one is restricted in its ability to maneuver/constrained by its draft..., 2. In Merchant Marine, pilots communicate rudder and engine orders directly. in the Navy its the OOD. 3-If there was a pilot on the LSD she would have had the Hotel Flag. The Navy is very through in flag etiquette. 4-Looks like a case of 2 under experienced OOD's meeting in a close situation that more experienced OOD's would have resolved earlier. (Like the inbound waiting for the outbound to clear the channel.) -Seasoned pilots refer to small boats in the middle of the channel as deep-draft row boats.

[@QALibrary]

I live in Portsmouth and only a 4km walk away from the Royal Naval base where the aircraft carries can only be berthed and it is very common for the Royal Naval ships to always have their public trackers turned off even when at the port and entering or exiting it

[@johneasler9967]

We don't speak metric here

[@Omegatonboom]

He's got the buttons on his collar. I was wondering who was buying those.

[@alandaters8547]

Obviously this channel is often congested, so this would seem to be a place where sticking to the conventional pattern of staying to the right side of the channel would help maintain safety and convenience for all. My question is why is following the side with the most bouys a practice in 2022? High end GPS can locate a ship's position very accurately, there should be no need to use channel markers as the primary navigation aid (bouys and other navigation systems can back up the GPS, just in case). Absent some other reason to stay to the left, the course of the USS Harper's ferry, though "legal", seems to invite the need for deconfliction. It would be interesting to see if civilian vessels tend to stay to the right more than navy vessels (again, when safe). I'd hate to see civilians viewing the Navy sailing practices with the same distain that the Navy has for sailboats!

[@mikeray1544]

The Navy is an equal opportunity employer-

[@charlesstorrs194]

So where is the demarcation between Colregs and the inland rules of the road?

[@wgowshipping]

The inland rules would apply, specifically, Rule 7 & Rule 8. I used COLREGS explanation as it is more condensed than the rules, but follows the same guidance.

[@tomjohn8733]

Once, coming into SD, we almost ran aground on north island after getting lost in a thick fog, the only thing that save us, avoiding a disaster, was dropping anchor, the captain wanted to arrive on time, anyways, all well that ends well…lolol

[@seathrunmagaoinghous4119]

Saw this happen. Was nuts. Just as a LH was coming in.

[@stevensipes1823]

You think that the harbor pilet would have called to see if there was any out bound ships. If they was the in bound should have waited till they were clear of the channel. The distance between the markers is to narrow for two large ships. To me it was the on the error of the harbor pilet. Steven Sipes

[@tedb.5707]

False controversy. No harm, no foul.

[@morthomer5804]

Is this a reviewable action? Communication is key. They "agreed" to the action, but N92 keyed up first. Why wasn't HF proactive?

[@robertf3479]

Sal, thanks for explaining the probable reasoning behind the decisions taken on both bridges. The first thing I noted was the "CODE ALPHA" flying from Momsen's starboard halyard but missing from Harpers Ferry. I'm not a "California Navy" sailor, all my sea time was on the East Coast so I've never even been near San Diego and really don't know what is normal for that port. That said, I feel both ships did it right in that the two Bridges were in communication on Channel 16 and were able to easily avoid putting each other in the "Body and Fender Shop." Pleasure craft traffic. We have a similar problem here in Hampton Roads, some days they are a thick as fleas on a dog and just as troublesome with sport fishermen and sailboats often encroaching on the channels (plural) or dashing across in front of both Navy and merchant traffic. It surprises me that we don't read about small craft getting run over more often than we do.

[@joebaasch4427]

I was stationed on USS Harper’s Ferry, probably why this popped up for me. The flag hoist should be read DESIG I, DESIGNATION INDIA, meaning pilot, versus CODE ALPHA, which means diver down…

[@anthonyfaye3344]

Retired helicopter crewman here. The air department blames them both.

[@beverlyreiner-baillargeon6205]

You have more concretely my desire to be a land lover