What's My Line? - Jack E. Leonard; PANEL: Steve Allen, Jayne Meadows (Aug 6, 1967)

MYSTERY GUEST: Jack E. Leonard
PANEL: Arlene Francis, Steve Allen, Jayne Meadows, Bennett Cerf
Many thanks to Steve M. Russo for providing this episode in much higher quality than the version I had previously. Folks interested in high quality, well packaged, well-edited DVDs of WML (and other game shows) can contact him directly for more information at [e-mail].
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[@kenyongray2615]

Miss Collins was a lovely young lady. Jack E Leonard was much better as the mystery guest instead of a panelist. As a panelist, he tends to be an attention hound. Thanks for the video.

[@fje6902]

Arlene seems to pull correct guesses right out of the air.

[@dianemutchler9213]

The sandpaper gentleman was a delight from beginning to end.

[@BigSchackAttack]

Believe it or not, if you can tell by part of my username I also have that name “Schack” that’s cause Schack is my last name & I am from the same area in NY. & the rack that he talks about at the end, my dad still has that rack & he keeps his biking gear on it. (Love you Grandpa Chuck!)

[@WhatsMyLine]

Again, John mentions the letter from a viewer that prompted him to mix up the catchphrase "Enter and sign in, please" so many times in these final months. Why he took a single letter from a single viewer so seriously as to monkey around with a 17-year-old catchphrase is completely beyond me!

[@Beson-SE]

2:47 "Will you sign in and enter before you do, please." Doesn't make sense at all.

[@Beson-SE]

Maybe John didn't get so many letters..? :)

[@WhatsMyLine]

Johan Bengtsson I still wonder whether there's more to this story (that we'll never know). Was John actively reading the mail received by the show? I tend to doubt it. Maybe the producers waved this letter at him to get him to mix things up. The whole thing makes no sense otherwise. Well, frankly, it makes no sense no matter who suggested it, but it makes absolutely no sense that a single letter from a viewer would have prompted this for MONTHS.

[@savethetpc6406]

What's My Line? As I've said elsewhere, I wish I could go back in time and write him a letter *begging* him to go back to the traditional way of saying it! Heck, I'd try to get a whole petition going or form a mass letter-writing campaign! :D

[@WhatsMyLine]

SaveThe TPC This is just the sort of thing that would be at most a passing thought to us if we were watching the shows in isolation without these discussions. :)

[@VahanNisanian]

Steve and Jayne were seen again on occasion on the new WML, including in 1973 and 1974.

[@richatlarge462]

The sandpaper guy seems to have had a whole comedy routine he was dying to share, but John didn't let him use the show to tell his jokes.

[@rmelin13231]

He was a joy to watch none the less.

[@BigSchackAttack]

I was just glad to see he got the top prize of $50. & believe it or not, if you can tell by part of my username I also have that name “Schack” that’s cause Schack is my last name & I am from the same area in NY. & the rack that he talks about at the end, my dad still has that rack & he keeps his biking gear on it. (Love you Grandpa Chuck!)

[@jacquelinebell6201]

Glad to see Jane with a different hairstyle to the pouffy styles she often wears.😊

[@soulierinvestments]

John commented about the lousy winter weather in New York last winter. Since this was recorded in March, they might have just experienced that weather before this taping session.

[@MarkMcLT]

Loved the Biblical reference at 16:20. Very few would have any clue of what it was today.

[@geniusmchaggis]

yes! shack rack....and he couldve have used me-shack also!

[@preppysocks209]

There was a song back in the day about Shardrack, Meshak, and Abeg-Nego. For anyone who wants to understand the Biblical reference, it is from the Book of Daniel and on youtube you can watch a performance of Charles Laughton on the Ed Sullivan reading "The Fiery Furnace." It is magnificent

[@sandrageorge3488]

At bedtime, when I was little, my mom would swing us and say, shaddrach, meshack, and into bed we go.

[@savannahr3236]

The first contestant is just too gorgeous.

[@ghshinn]

You should have seen her mother!

[@savethetpc6406]

ghshinn Savannah R There's a picture of Miss Collins's mother in the article linked on this page by nandofigueira2005: madamepickwickartblog.com/2010/08/once-you-get-the-hang-of-it/. She was indeed quite beautiful -- as was her daughter. (Edit: I tried to read the date on the photo to figure out whether the picture is of mother or daughter, but when I enlarge it, the numbers become too blurry to read. I was assuming that the photo featured the original Elizabeth, though.) · .

[@ghshinn]

SaveThe TPC I cheated. I'd read the thread and seen the picture, but was too lazy to find it again.

[@sanseifromkofu728]

I feel they stepped on the sandpaper salesman's toes more than a few times, poor guy.

[@Bigbadwhitecracker]

If I can't have Dorothy, I'll take Jayne Meadows. I wish I could see that dress in color!

[@1928gerry]

Steve is down-to-earth and Jayne is pretentious....the original odd couple.

[@MattGerhard]

I agree, Jayne is my favorite outside of Dorothy and Arlene.

[@stevekru6518]

If I could have Dorothy, I’d still take Jayne

[@romeman01]

"You don't recognize Charlie Grapewin's voice?" 19:48 Mr. Grapewin, who had already passed on more than 10 years previous to this program, played Uncle Henry in The Wizard of Oz.

[@jmccracken1963]

And his career in movies was just about over when Jayne Meadows's career was just getting started (in 1946 and 1947, with "Undercurrent," "Lady in the Lake," "Dark Delusion," and "Song of the Thin Man"). Charley Grapewin appeared in only 4 films between the end of World War II and his death in February of 1956: one each in 1947, 1948, 1949, and, finally, "When I Grow Up" in 1951.

[@tjbnyc76]

Arlene's new hairstyle is very flattering. I wish I could say the same for Steve's!

[@patcurrie9888]

Yes for Arlene. Steve went to his old rug from 15 yrs prior, a miss step

[@allanshulstad8166]

Jayne Meadows was a very good actress.

[@davidreidenberg9941]

Don Rickles owes Jack E. Leonard royalties.

[@soulierinvestments]

First contestant. Nice work if you can get it, revolving and all.Second contestant. Rough work.

[@savethetpc6406]

soulierinvestments How Cerfian of you! ;)

[@soulierinvestments]

The color TV cameras allow for close ups of the panelists and their name plates. The director acts as if he has never seen a name plate before.

[@richatlarge462]

Am I the only one wondering exactly why the first contestant had to step in for her mother? ;)

[@rmelin13231]

Good question. Maybe mom took one for the act?

[@bluecamus5162]

Maybe their insurance company cancelled Mom's policy.

[@salvatorecollura2692]

After John’s sharp remonstrance, Mr Cerf’s startled expression suggests he was genuinely terrified that he had crossed a severely taboo line with the waitress comment. But if that were so, why not just cut that colloquy since the show was taped?

[@larryteren5054]

i've always enjoyed don rickles but fat jack was the first and the best.

[@VahanNisanian]

A lovely British bird (the British slang for girl) the first contestant is.

[@1928gerry]

A slang word seldom heard to describe a British girl.

[@davidsanderson5918]

1928gerry We still say it, don't worry. Nice bird.

[@TheBatugan77]

@@1928gerry wrong. be quiet.

[@johnmack537]

Cerf often demonstrates his lack of general knowledge; “Why do you have so many different kinds of sandpaper?” 🙄

[@bluecamus5162]

How many intellectuals do you know that have finished furniture or built bird-houses? He would probably shock us with his grasp of politics and history and literature.

[@johnmack537]

@@bluecamus5162 This is just one example. I enjoy watching these old episodes, but have seen many, many where Cerf clearly demonstrates a lack of common knowledge; things like not knowing porpoises aren’t fish.

[@poetcomic1]

Jayne Meadows was an amazing beauty who always over dressed, wore too much jewelry, too much make up, wore Roman Empress hair-dos and it is SUCH a shame. I saw some candid pictures of her not all done up and she was ravishing.

[@HelloooThere]

Ok

[@brucewelnack6382]

Bennett had a leery eye and the topless comment had Daly ready to shut him down right then and there. He was pissed and likely upbraided him after the show.

[@bluecamus5162]

Perhaps not. I would think that everyone would be in a relaxed and devil-may-care attitude going into their last month of existence. The times were a-changin' and I bet that this is the only adult program on the air in 1967 that would've gotten uppity about the word "topless" and that John would be the only TV host to do it.

[@TheJonaco]

Charlie Grapewin? Didn't he play Uncle Henry in "The Wizard of Oz"?

[@savethetpc6406]

TheJonaco He sure did! www.imdb.com/name/nm0335788/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

[@jmccracken1963]

Also Inspector Richard Queen in the 7 Ellery Queen movies made in the early 1940s by Columbia Pictures. He also played Grandpa in "The Grapes of Wrath."

[@VahanNisanian]

Recorded way, way back on March 26.

[@VahanNisanian]

Jeff A The cancellation was first reported by the New York Times on February 14. They must have scheduled this episode for August 6, when they taped it in March. The panel lineup is the same as on the lost March 26, 1967 episode, plus Johnny Olson even says that tonight's program was prerecorded.

[@mazzyvictor]

Jeff A bl

[@savethetpc6406]

Jeff A John and the panel frequently made facetious comments like that on prerecorded shows. They were trying to create the illusion that the show was being broadcast live. This is one thing that I think is rather unclassy about this otherwise very classy show. I don't like the idea that they were trying to fool the audience in this way. The weather references seemed more like inside jokes to me, but other examples that I found irritating were when John was careful to "correct" a panelist or mystery guest who mentioned an *upcoming* movie release, theater event or other performance by saying that it had already happened, and especially one time when he corrected a contestant about how soon she would be starting school. Why couldn't they just be honest about it and explain to the television audience that at the time of taping, these things were upcoming but by the time of broadcast they would have happened?

[@preppysocks209]

@@savethetpc6406 That makes Steve's comment using the August heat as an excuse for not paying attention and asking an already asked question even more of a lie

[@druidbros]

Pretty good one the second guest got on Mr Allen. I dont think that has happened very often. But he does seem to be distracted today.

[@savethetpc6406]

I really liked Mr. Schack. He was one of those rare contestants who seemed totally comfortable and at ease on the show, answered all questions confidently, and when there was any question about how to answer, he seemed to treat John as an equal partner in the decision-making process, rather than as the ultimate authority. He even had the chutzpah to suggest that John might be misleading the panel at one point (beginning around 11:57) but not in any kind of overbearing or disrespectful way, and John seemed to accept that and treat him in kind. (Note their interaction, beginning about 14:22, and also the way John admonishes Mr. Shack for giving too much help to the panel at around 15:00. His tone is similar to the tone he uses with Bennett sometimes, and it almost sounds as if the two of them are good friends!)

[@druidbros]

Agreed. This type of guest was all too rare.

[@SuperWinterborn]

SaveThe TPC Yes, I noticed that too. Very relaxing to watch. :)

[@neilmidkiff]

Yes, it would have been hard to guess his line from his manner, since he definitely didn't have an abrasive personality.

[@loissimmons6558]

Nor did he rub anyone the wrong way!

[@cdrugly]

13:24 This should have been a yes. Baseball players use sandpaper to decrease the diameter of the grip on their bats. Cheating pitchers also use it to scuff the laces on the ball .

[@soulierinvestments]

The E in Jack E Leonard stands for . . LebitskEE Leonard Lebitsky was his birth name. I suppose its good to talk openly about weight, but it somehow seems sort of rude and snoopy.

[@geniusmchaggis]

jack could handle it.

[@TheBatugan77]

I try to bw polite and civil when I encounter the numerous fatasses of the present day.

[@ToddSF]

Sandpaper made of cloth? Well, perhaps, because a close relative of sandpaper is emery cloth.

[@Beson-SE]

Haven't used sandpaper since I went to school.

[@ghshinn]

Some sandpaper has a rag content in the backing. Maybe that's what he meant.

[@TheBigMclargehuge]

"He always misses!" Not sure if bright or ditzy.

[@1928gerry]

Which is why she didn't die or was injured during the performance so very "bright" comment, which John picked up on.

[@Merrida100]

How unlike Arlene to mention someone's weight like that. At least I don't remember her asking like that.

[@loissimmons6558]

It was because they were friends and knew each other well enough to kid each other. Remember that Jack E. Leonard's stock in trade was insults. He was willing to take them under the right circumstances.

[@commandoxy]

Miss Collins is so thin that it would be difficult to hit her with anything, as she moves around.

[@slaytonp]

By todays standards of the hefty Heffalump being normal, she was a mere match stick.

[@davidsanderson5918]

Last time he was on Leonard had lost a lot of weight. So easy to put it on again. :(

[@jacquelinebell6201]

Jack leonard was funny.

[@Steve27775]

This is how it should've gone down: "We'll start with... Bennett Cerf." "Mr Schack, it sounds like you, uh, throw up houses... [laughter] Are you in fact in the building trade?" "No." "Haha, no. That's one down and nine to go. Arlene?"

[@dbarker7794]

was Jayne Meadows the model for Judy Jetson?

[@bryanstorm8291]

Technically, the knives are not thrown AT her . . . .

[@MrWindermere123]

I was puzzled by Jack E Leonard - what was he famous for? Wikipedia tells me he was an aggressive, sarcastic insult comedian who spoke of his weight problems in his act. That's why Arlene Francis mentioned his size in a way that might have been rude but wasn't - he had put his weight in the public domain. He died from a heart attack in 1973, aged 63, so his weight was not a healthy condition. Other people comment on Steve Allen's hair but I was struck by his sombre appearance - he resembles an accountant or an undertaker. Time wasn't kind to him or Mr Leonard, who began in show business as a dancer.

[@robbob1234]

He was the original insult comic who inspired Don Rickles. That kind of schtick.

[@geraldkatz7986]

Steve Allen is sporting the hairdo I remember him by when I was a kid in the 70s.

[@joeylocognato2198]

Being born in July of 96, obviously my parents were even born when this show was on. But my point is there's something that's not right with that Bennett Cerf. He died in 1971, which had to be a relief to an awful lot of people.

[@bluecamus5162]

It's best if you keep such opinions to yourself.

[@kentetalman9008]

I met Bennett Cerf once, and had a wonderful conversation with him. He seemed to be a much better person than you'll ever be.

[@kenp3L]

How come when JCD says, "With your permission, ...," he means the exact opposite?

[@davidsanderson5918]

kenp3L I suppose it's like saying "Pardon me" after breaking wind. I don't think I've ever received anyone's pardon for it yet.

[@TheBatugan77]

unkemp3L (L for Loser...) It's called being civil, you little twit.

[@bluecamus5162]

It's just politeness. And it is a very polite program! I'm sure the contestants are all briefed before going on that John is the Boss on stage and that he will change anyone's answer as he sees fit. It's funny how many contestants never say a word on stage or how many times they look to John to give the answer. Our sandpaper salesman here is an exception--- many folks are too nervous to talk at all or very much.

[@sydneycarton9973]

link to the knive throwing act on Ed Sullivan kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJPTpJucjKl2bLM

[@catteadams]

Bennet Cerf. GROSS. Shame on you. Thank you to John Daly who had a healthier sense of dignity for women.

[@1928gerry]

And a healthier sense of what the eastern audience would find acceptable.

[@elisabethlinz4256]

Well, well, well.... Usually Bennet is very sweet and harmless..

[@gailsirois7175]

@@elisabethlinz4256 no...he's not...he's said and done this objectification of women before...its sickening

[@TheBatugan77]

@@gailsirois7175 You again? You're ALWAYS sickening.

[@TheBatugan77]

Way to go, Bennett! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@VahanNisanian]

That is the worst, most unconvincing rug, I have ever seen on Steve Allen.

[@ToddSF]

It's bad enough, but, to me, worse were: William Shatner on "T. J. Hooker" with his curly-headed rug; the character Stefano (played by Joseph Mascolo) on "Days of Our Lives" (as it was back in 1994 or 1995); and Donald Trump any day of the week with that roadkill he wears and denies is a toupée (which may be the case since it looks like an item of roadkill such as a mashed, dead squirrel).

[@boyjohn]

***** I thought he was wearing some sort of animal on on his head for a joke. Is this the first appearance of him in a rug?

[@savethetpc6406]

***** Are you kidding? I've seen much, much worse on him! Here's just one example: pdxretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/steve-allen-later_thumb.jpg. I'm probably wrong, since you all seem so sure he was wearing a toupee in this episode, but I actually thought it just looked like his hair was thinning so much in front that he had to comb it strangely. On the other hand, I thought Jayne's hairpiece looked lovely on her, despite the fact that it was obviously not her own hair. Is it an example of sexism to appreciate obvious hairpieces on women but not on men? Or is it just that some hairpieces look good and others don't? I have seen men on TV in toupees that looked so natural that I really would not have been able to tell if I didn't know or hadn't been told. Carl Reiner, George Burns (in the 1950s, anyway), and Jimmy Stewart come to mind. But, almost by definition, I would say that if it is obvious that a man *is* wearing a hairpiece, then it doesn't look good. Yet not so for women, imo. I'm not quite sure what to make of that. A related question for Gary (What's My Line?): Fred Allen and others always razzed Jack Benny for wearing a bad toupee, but I never thought he looked like he was wearing a toupee at all, and I thought I'd read somewhere that he really never did. Do you know the truth of this matter?

[@WhatsMyLine]

SaveThe TPC Re: women's wigs/hairpieces versus men's, I think the difference is that it was seen as unmasculine vanity for a man to care so much about his appearance that he'd wear a toupee. The wigs/hairpieces women wore in the 60s were so extreme, no one could possibly have ever believed some of these do's were real hair. It was more a form of additional ornamentation, where with men, hairpieces are a way of *hiding* being bald. Re: Jack Benny, you're right-- he didn't actually wear any sort of hairpiece until very late in his late. According to his manager Irving Fein in his excellent bio of Jack, even this was not a full-blown toupee but a small hairpiece that simply covered a bald spot on the back of his head. There are a couple of clips (though I can't remember what shows they're in) where Jack makes a funny point of pulling his own hair on camera to demonstrate that it was actually real-- I believe always in guest shots on other people's shows, never his own, because it would have undermined his character's vanity.

[@savethetpc6406]

What's My Line? Good point about the distinction between "ornamentation" and "cover-up," and thanks for the clarification about Jack Benny. I read the biography you mentioned, so that's probably where I read about Jack *not* wearing a toupee.