When A Bike Restoration Gets Too Expensive - 1962 Moulton F Frame - Is It Worth It?

[@garysprojects]

honestly I think that’s what experience brings , even with your tenacity , sometimes it’s smarter to move on 💕

[@MonkeyShred]

That’s about right. Especially in todays bike market 😅

[@frogrides]

wait you guys sell the bikes you do up!!?

[@MonkeyShred]

@@frogrides try to eh 😂

[@garysprojects]

@@frogrides can’t keep them all… orrrrr 🤔

[@JohnPilling25]

You hit the nail on the head there with your cost assessments. Parts are getting so expensive especially anything pre 1980. Love the new style commentary.

[@MonkeyShred]

Thanks! It takes a lot more work to do the script and voiceover but I think it’s worth it 👌

[@JordiMoll]

I love what you do. When failure or when the things didn't go well IS part of the game. Always learning. Greetings from Mallorca ✨

[@MonkeyShred]

Thanks Jordi. I appreciate that.

[@stolenorange]

I really enjoyed watching you take apart this bike. I intend to strip a Moulton Mini for the fun of it

[@MonkeyShred]

Good luck with it!

[@sbrown1953]

A valiant effort, and very interesting to follow along, it is a valuable lesson to share.

[@MonkeyShred]

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@odetocycling]

I've one of those in my shed and it looks pretty much the same as your BEFORE you started work on it - including the wheels! Maybe park it for another year. I also think I paid 30 pounds for it - many moons ago! Valiant effort - especially working in sub-zero temperatures

[@MonkeyShred]

I don’t mind the cold too much! 😅 I can cope with that way more than the summer heats.

[@murphyco88]

It’s always tempting to bring a odd ball bike or cheap one back to life you gotta know when to when ….great effort 😎

[@MonkeyShred]

And yet in the garage I still have a rusty old road bike that is just as uneconomical to repair but equally as cool. 😅 I think it’s a bit rarer and more appealing that a Moulton though. Hopefully…

[@Stuartrusty]

I hear you. Sometimes, as you say, best just to walk away. Yes, research is so important on elderly models like these, unless you already know the problems and quirks of each model. Had my fingers burned on a few projects and now have the experience to keep my over enthusiastic repair everything nature in check before it costs me more than said bike is worth. A brave effort and hat off to you for knowing when to call it.

[@MonkeyShred]

Right? It’s so easy to just plow head first it to a project and get lost in it before realising there’s no way it’s ever going to sell - especially in todays market.

[@twowheelsintokyo7039]

I bought a ‘64 Stowaway off eBay UK, and had it shipped all the way to my home in Japan. It was dirty, rusty, but, to my surprise, still rideable once the tires were aired up. Upon digging into the bike, found that the bar, stem, and seat post were too rusty to salvage, that the front brake, though working, was a joke. It was flexy, and didn’t stop the bike especially well. The front wheel was rusty, with holes in it, with the chrome worn off the braking surface. The rear wheel, being greasy from the 2 speed hub, had been protected from rust, and, having a coaster brake, the rim had no pad wear. I ordered a clean front wheel with a dyno hub from the UK, paying about $100, including shipping. I replaced the bar, stem, and seat post with Nitto parts I sourced here in Japan. Nitto makes some beautifully finished parts for custom bike builds, but they are reasonably priced. I tossed the original front brake and used a Dia Compe dual pivot caliper and a Paul Components brake lever. The original galvanized spokes were corroded to a black color, so I got some DT stainless spokes and replaced them. I also replaced the headset and bottom bracket bearings. I found that the rear forks had been welded and reinforced some time in the past, either to fix cracks, or prevent them. In any case, the quality of the welding was good, and the repair or modification looked solid. The paint and rust I chemically stripped off on my 20th floor balcony on days when my wife wasn’t home. I made a spray booth out of cardboard boxes and did a decent job of paining the bike. It’s now a good looking and good riding bike. I found a “pigeon wing” chain guard, and plastic chain ring which look quite nice. The only parts I still want are an original trunk bag, and a decent Sturmey Archer lamp to go with the dynohub. In Japan a good Moulton F series sells for about $1000 to $1500.

[@MonkeyShred]

Sounds like a lot of work went in to that. Glad it worked out for you.

[@zeniktorres4320]

Nice video. I plan on restoring my 1957 Raleigh bike with rod the brakes, full crank casing, and 3-speed Sturmey-Archer. Bike is not damaged, and has all the original parts in good condition. However, chrome parts, wheels, springs all have surface rust, and the lovely frame detailing and paint work, are all faded. Hope to use all the existing parts.

[@MonkeyShred]

Sounds good. Good luck!

[@christianluff]

Really good admission that there has to be a cutoff when it becomes uneconomical. Shame as it looked like an interesting little beast. Hopefully at least *some* joy was to be had in the disassembly process! Great work. Now I must summon up the energy to recommission my 1999 Scott Comp Racing. Some nice bits on it just going to waste.

[@MonkeyShred]

It is! I’m still interested to see how it rides but yeah - it’s too much cost. Still, I always enjoy getting the blowtorch out to loosen bolts 😅

[@TheRadDadShow]

I learned a long time ago that nothing is truly "free". Even if the bike was found by the dump, the time and effort it takes to bring it back can be put toward other, more meaningful bikes or even other things. These days, my limit for restorations is very short. I focus on treasure hunting for grail bikes instead.

[@MonkeyShred]

Oh definitely. Free rarely equates to being free. Just some takes a little more than others.

[@bigc7t]

Cool/ weird/ unique old bike, I'm sure someone will want it. Thanks for the video.

[@MonkeyShred]

Hopefully! It’s be nice to know it’s getting some use.

[@davidparry1982]

I guess that learning is part of the experience and it’s tougher with an unusual machine like a Moulton - hats off for tackling this. These bikes have a tremendous enthusiast following, including me - I’m pretty sure that so e in the club would give you a pair of serviceable wheels to finish the build.

[@MonkeyShred]

Yup - I just bought it on a whim and never really had the heart for it unfortunately. It did go to an enthusiast to properly finish though.

[@LosPeregrinos51]

Heart breaking waste of a classic bike - they need not cost the earth to refurbish so long as the frame is sound. Alloy rims make all the difference - I junked everything but the frame and suspension and bought a nearly new rear wheel from a Brompton that had been upgraded (3 speed SA hub) for just £35 - the new rim for the front from SJS Cycles cost about the same and I laced it myself - cranks and chainwheel also ex-Brompton were £25. Tektro long reach brakes alloy stem and seat post. The bars and and Brooks saddle I already had. All told it cost me less than £200 (2014 prices) including the powder coat in Signal Yellow, I've had 10 years of fun out of it and a friend keeps pestering my to buy it for £500. Oh, that rear suspension block is supposed to be glued to the front plate . . . Still, each to their own. If you just want a quick profit then restoring old bikes, cars and cycles is not the way to make it - just use a rattle can and take it to the next boot sale. Oh, and that paint job - what were you thinking?

[@MC57315]

Kudo's for trying to fix that up. I would have treated it like a write-off straight away! Hopefully somebody will some day build it up and share the finished result.

[@MonkeyShred]

Hopefully! It’s mostly there now. At least all the bolts are freely moving 😅

[@ridethroughlifertl]

I have a ball joint separator that has a lever thing in the middle, and it works real well for removing those cotter pins.

[@MonkeyShred]

Never tried that myself. Always used to use a hammer to set them free!

[@6ettinold]

A mechanic told me years ago that the best thing to do, if time allows, with seized screws, nuts & bolts is to douse with penetrating oil every day for a week if you can. Done this countless times with old cars and it really helps.

[@MonkeyShred]

Yeah that works in most cases but fire is fun 🙃

[@_MrSnrub]

Heyyyy been a while since I saw your vids. Idk what changed but the new style is good. I appreciate you.

[@MonkeyShred]

Thanks! Just putting a bit more effort in to the commentary really! Writing scripts and all that.

[@robertporch5218]

I'd personally not have done a splatter finish which looks 1990s, mixed with 1960s classic Moulton design. Using the adjustable on a hbar stem... always a good fitting ring spanner or socket to preserve the nut, it's a show nut too! Neat vid. Every day is a learning day especially with Moulton. Good luck.

[@jamesniv8436]

The best luck I have had with rusty nuts and bolts is to heat then quench with cold water great visions learn allot

[@MonkeyShred]

Yeah that also works. Bit of the shock factor involved there.

[@puro52]

wait that -4 is that now? we have not come close to - degrees here in stockholm

[@MonkeyShred]

Oh no 😂 I started this in the winter. It’s probably still 10c in the morning at the moment.

[@cerberus1981]

I’m fixing up an ‘84 Schwinn road bike for giggles… but I’ve had to resign myself to the fact that a new wheel set just costs north of 150 dollars/quid 😅 At 16 inches’ diameter, most people could probably get away with 28 spokes, but I can see why one would want to keep the S-A hub.

[@MonkeyShred]

Yeah I’d love to keep the original hub. I don’t think old SA hubs are holding a lot of value at the moment so 28 hole might not be too expensive to replace but yah. It’s done now 🙃

[@ricobass0253]

...as you didn't get the front suspension fully apart, I'd be very worried that there will be play between the top inner nylon bush and the inner column as well as the rust and the siezed screw that holds the rebound spring.

[@MonkeyShred]

Have you had experience stripping these forks down before?

[@BananaBabys]

How does the boiled linseed oil hold up on raw steel?

[@MonkeyShred]

I haven’t used BLO here. But it’s something that your need to reapply every now and again.

[@ToddNZMTB]

Does that blue colour have a name? It's quite similar to my mushroom picture here.

[@MonkeyShred]

It’s either Ridgeway Blue or Sky Blue. I can’t remember which.

[@philippejoseph8604]

At 24:37 the pin is placed on the wrong side because it's the oposite side of the nut that will eventually less interfere with your pants. For the rest the bike is really lovely but given the initial state you should have to get it for free otherwise it will not be possible to do any money if you sell it. I do restore old bicycles like this and it's generally 35 hours of work equivalent to 1 euro per hour of work after selling it. Personally I would have prefered a classic style paint to give it it's era look.

[@MonkeyShred]

The cotter pin is installed correctly 🙂 when the arm is in the forward/lead position it should have the nut on top and cotter on the bottom.

[@richard74200]

Pity you couldn't finish it but as you said, you have to draw the line somewhere. It would sell quicker if you hadn't done the paint splatter effect, but hope you sell it.

[@MonkeyShred]

Perhaps! Hopefully it moves on soon!

[@JohnPrice-e9x]

Wondered if you may be able to tell me if it’s likely there’s a aluminium frame out there which would weigh less than 11.5 kg with all the components on as this is roughly what mine weighs but can’t afford to buy expensive wheels especially not for a inexpensive bike it’s a Dawes discovery 700x35, 19.1/4” frame, or is most going to be roughly same weight, or do bikes start getting really expensive trying to get lighter than 11.5 kg, cheers

[@MonkeyShred]

Sorry - no idea of frame/build weights for bikes.

[@creepingjesus5106]

I think it's one of those things where if you're buying it for you, as a piece of design, history, a talking piece or whatever, it wouldn't matter so much. You'd shell out and forget about the cost in the long run. But if it doesn't make economic sense, it's as well to cut your losses. Alex Moulton was a fascinating character too, definitely a niche hero for engineering nerds!

[@MonkeyShred]

That’s exactly it. If I knew I was keeping it and going to get the use out of it - even just occasionally I’d probably continue but with my current collection - it’s just not going to get used.

[@bristolfashion4421]

Last few Moultons I done up cost peanuts - just lots of elbow grease and that sort of stuff… I think I chose to buy a replacement rear suspension pivot but that was it a tenner oh yes

[@MonkeyShred]

It does help when you don't completely strip and repaint, have to rebuild wheels, buy nice tyres and replace other worn parts with ncie new modern ones but yeah

[@choppercam01]

I know the feeling on this.

[@MonkeyShred]

I think we’ve all been there at some point!

[@choppercam01]

@MonkeyShred I'm always there 🤣 it is becoming a joke, though, with the prices of parts

[@MonkeyShred]

@@choppercam01 especially on choppers! I don’t think I’ve ever seen them go cheap 😅

[@choppercam01]

@MonkeyShred the 2 I did cost over £300 each to fix up. The tyres alone were £65 a pair, but everything that was replaced was replaced with original parts. I doubt I'll restore any more choppers, which is a shame as I'll have to change the name of my channel 🤣

[@AlienLivesMatter]

Moulton should re-release an updated F-frame with 406mm wheels. I think it'd be a hit

[@DIY-DaddyO]

Good effort, best to pass it on. I can't see it lasting long up Cannock Chase. I'm guessing there's not enough room to switch to 20" rims and make some bastardised BMX Moulton... ?!

[@duringthemeanwhilst]

always a shame when a build can't be finalised, but you did het to learn a fair bit about some early suspension engineering so not all lost 🙂 thinking about it - it could make a decent base for an e-bike conversion???

[@MonkeyShred]

True. Knowledge is valuable. I did actually think about turning it in to an eBike. I remember another company approached me but 16” wheels are prebuilt for Brompton sizes. Rim size that’s great but Bromptons use a smaller front hub of 74mm I believe so it doesn’t work well with the standard 100mm dropouts on the Moulton 🥲

[@samblenkharn8099]

Good effort. You can't win 'em all. Cool paint job!

[@lkj974]

@@MonkeyShred Have you ever built a bike wheel? It's not as hard as people think and opens up lots of options.

[@MonkeyShred]

@@lkj974 Yeah I've... done videos on this before. I've built plenty.

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

That chain ring seems really big… how many teeth does it have?

[@MonkeyShred]

A lot 😅 I think it’s a 50T. Seems to be common on these 16” small wheeled bikes.

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

@@MonkeyShred Interesting. I thought it was larger than 50T, but that's large enough. Maybe they went with that because of the small wheels.

[@yafflehk]

There's a lot of Brompton specific stuff on aliexpress...

[@possibly8180]

Are the parts interchangeable with the Moultons?

[@yafflehk]

MS mentions in the video that the wheels are...@@possibly8180

[@MonkeyShred]

I’ve never used Ali Express tbh.

[@bennettturk3206]

You definitely have to plan out a budget and decide if its worth it before you spend ANY money.

[@Herbybandit]

Finished, that would be a sweet little bike but like you say, parts cost soon adds up and before you know it your loosing money! Not to worry, your not the first to learn this lesson the hard way (self included) I have a project I'm just trying to get the price of the rebuilt wheels back on, four years on I still have it.

[@MonkeyShred]

Oh I feel like I’m always loosing money at the moment 😅 I’ve lost money on a lot of builds now I think. Annoying bu I guess it’s just part of it.

[@allenschmitz9644]

Saw you comming mate....duck.

[@MonkeyShred]

It was an eBay auction. 🙃

[@robinlambert883]

16'' child's bike wheels ?? I have a RSW with them, well under £50 for a wheel set and have a coaster brake for skids!!

[@MonkeyShred]

Nope. Brompton/Moulton size. They’re 349mm. Kids bikes are smaller. 305mm

[@MyJourneyToAWholeBitcoin]

That's a shame, the most valuable parts on a bike are the wheels in the most part. Brompton 16" is ISO 349mm [47-349], and other 16" wheels, children/BMX is ISO 305mm [37-305].

[@MonkeyShred]

Yup. That’s why I said Brompton sized rims 😅 Although technically… they’re Moulton sized rims because Brompton wasn’t even founded until the next decade.

[@robflohil774]

What you are saying is that you cannot refurbish a bicycle that is in such a bad condition when you have to buy {almost} all replacement parts new. Instead you could try to source these parts from other {donor} bikes, like children's bikes or other folding bikes you perhaps can find cheaply on the 2nd hand market. Here in NL there a plenty 16" or 20" kids bikes {for instance} you can get for €10 to €20 and that are not crap.

[@MonkeyShred]

Yeah - I mean - you can. It just costs a lot. FYI - 16” kids bikes and 16” Moulton/Brompton sizes are different. 305 vs 349

[@alexwilsonpottery3733]

I’m wincing watching you cack-handedly using an adjustable spanner for disassembly. The Moulton Club still exists, if you’re looking for replacement parts, like suspension rubbers, etc.

[@MonkeyShred]

That’s what they’re there for. Why bother going in to the tool back for a different tool when you can keep using one. It even doubles as a hammer.

[@TINGVELL]

is,nt building a custom build about being creative and creating your own vision of bike you imagine and dream of,money expense comes along with parcel and package,money comes and go,s, but your dream bike retro unique build stays in your man cave for life.

[@MonkeyShred]

Most of the time yes but in this case, no.

[@richbarron2424]

Alot of rust on this one 😊

[@MonkeyShred]

It’s not the worst I’ve had! A lot of brown paint though!

[@joesprague1464]

I appreciate your content and reason for not continuing with the build.If you have a heart felt desire to restore the bike for yourself a wheel set could be had if you had the patience to pursue them,maybe the cost could be justified for the right reasons.If you had the room to store it until a set of wheels found you through happenstance that could be ideal.Justifying costs in this hobby could never work for me.I have a tsr27 and a 1965 Moulton f frame.

[@MonkeyShred]

The desire definitely wasn’t there for this one.

[@BSS22193]

How can it be too expensive? I'm collecting old classic bikes and as long as i keep the bikes in my collection i dont care about the cost to get the bikes in running order.

[@MonkeyShred]

I think you just answered your own question and I’m pretty sure I explained it in the video 🤷‍♂️

[@DangerAmbrose]

You want to soak a rusted bike like that in WD40 for a day or two before you turn any bolts.

[@MonkeyShred]

I don’t think you listed to the commentary 😂 They were soaked in penetration spray.

[@boxhampton]

❤what a shame

[@MonkeyShred]

I know. Can’t win them all though!

[@cwfella]

Lost interest when I saw that horrendous paint work

[@MonkeyShred]

I lost interest well before that but thanks for commenting.