When Amtrak Still Carried Mail and Express

Enjoy this video of when Amtrak still hauled Mail and Express freight cars on the backs of their long distance passenger trains across the USA. These shots were filmed in the month of June in 2004.

[@patrickhill82]

i remember when i rode the southwest chief it was 30 cars long!

[@DanMeyer80]

it was like that when I rode it back in 02

[@aure745]

Why that ugly Express trak boxcar with no amtrak logo

[@rockford2523]

Amtrak should resume carrying freight. The money is with freight.

[@timf2279]

Lol I agree but the money is with congress.

[@amtrak1214]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING!!!

[@ShadyCreeper964]

They could use it as a means of getting the freight railroads to pull their heads out of the track ballast and stop making their trains super long. Sure, longer trains can carry more goods and therefore make more money but it may create problems for time-sensitive trains.

[@amtrak1214]

I say we do something about it!

[@amtrak1214]

@@ShadyCreeper964 Is there anything we can do?

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

Thank you Dave. Amtrak really started getting into the business of Mail and Express in the 1990s and by the late 90s they were doing great business at it. The Three Rivers Train would have more Mail and Express cars than passenger cars on the train and The Texas Eagle would have 10-20 cars behind the coaches! They would goto all the freight shows advertising themselves. Sadly by 2006ish it all stopped. They thought they were not making any real money at it and Union Pacific complained about it.

[@kevinwong6588]

It was Gunn who cut the mail and express freight operations in 2005, citing delays to passenger traffic in switching cars and reducing overhead. The Three Rivers was basically a mixed freight with coaches and dinette added on until March 2005.

[@maxm2317]

Kevin Wong Which is a real shame. The potential still exists for Amtrak to haul short-distance intermodal freight on their Eastern trains. Sure, it'd probably be taking money out of the pockets of freight railroads, but it'd probably be enough to at least partially cover the dividends of renewed Amtrak express freight services.

[@packr72]

He cancelled it because he wanted more money to subsidize the passenger service and the USPS wasn’t gonna bite.

[@hans2406]

Was he paid by the freight companies? A train company, even Amtrak, should be able and allowed to try to make a profit, also compete. But like I said, these "reformers" of rail companies often had a double agenda, like Beeching in the UK, it now is clear he was paid by the car and truck industry.

[@penskepc2374]

@@hans2406 they run on freight companies tracks and have priority, how is it even remotely fair for them to run freight?

[@visionist7]

@@penskepc2374 the don't have priority on freight tracks. That's why they're always late

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

Thank you Maxim. Amtrak said they were losing $5 million a yr off the service. That does not make sense to me. The freight railroads did not like Amtrak being the freight business but Amtrak had the rights. The ExpressTrak boxcars carried even lemons in them and other food!

[@nightmarefredcat2352]

2:03: that's a rare coach.

[@packr72]

The ironic thing is Amtrak stopped this partially because the freight railroads complained but in the same sense freight railroads have no interest in hauling time sensitive goods. They only want to move raw materials, grain, chemicals and containers.

[@maddiekits]

I think if Amtrak held in there a bit longer, the freight companies would have stopped complaining. They where probably still in denial that they wouldn't try to do both in the future still lol.

[@ShadyCreeper964]

For time sensitive goods such as mail and packages, the time sensitivity had to be no less than the time length of the Amtrak route it was on.

[@ravenhawk6910]

Great video! Even got the Ocean View (Super Dome) in there too! Very nice.

[@blackbirdgaming8147]

ravenhawk6910 My guess is it was either returning from or heading to Beech Grove. It’s likely that by this time the other full length dome had been removed from the roster, leaving only Ocean View. The other dome was #10030 Mountain View.

[@AmericanRailfan-gb8oq]

Did anyone knoe that amtrak was allowed to haul all types of freight and not just mail?, that was until CSX came to the table and said "We are giving these guys priority, to do our work!"

[@packr72]

Mitchell DeVillers It’s cute when freight railways claim they give Amtrak “priority.” Freight railways should be grateful that they no longer have to haul passengers.

[@davidwinfield730]

It's a frasenger train lol

[@harrisonofcolorado8886]

Yeah good portmanteau word for passenger and freight train!

[@Canadian_Yoshi]

Lol

[@RyansColoradoRailProductions]

actually it's called a "mixed train", as it carries both passengers and freight.

[@visionist7]

Preight train

[@glendenig6419]

This is cool... in the mid eighties, living in Springfield, Ill, I remember Amtrak trains speeding over the street crossings by the Amtrak station with multiple baggage cars, Amfleet cars, Superliner cars and many Amtrak boxcars. As a kid I though that was an interesting and even unlikely consist. Then I learned the reason. They must've dealt in freight for at least a couple decades?

[@LibertyRailfan]

Great video Trains Big and Small, we should petition to bring these trains back... ! Make the postal system great again!

[@AJ67901]

Step one is to get rid of DeJoy.

[@InventorZahran]

Step two is to incentivize businesses to send their shipments via the USPS instead of commercial delivery services, citing fast mail trains as an advantage.

[@christianstudivant4804]

That’s looks so badass freight on Amtrak I wonder when will Amtrak do this again, and honestly Amtrak freight business would’ve last longer if Gunn wouldn’t have ended it and the freight railroads complaining.

[@XDDCC292]

This video was part of how I got into trains and railfaning

[@howarth004]

Good old days , think post was faster then

[@MrBnsftrain]

The first and 4th trains had a fair amount of mail boxcars of the later freight design, while the other ones had almost the same amount of 'freight' cars as passenger cars! I also noticed a Phase IV engine andd some phase III baggage cars! Nowadays, almost every baggage car is in phase III heritage livery, and 184 has been repainted back to Phase iV! 2:04 nice catch of the great dome car at the front! Amtrak should've kept more dome cars!

[@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102]

The train with the Phase IV has a future heritage unit on it.

[@notarotomwithhair5637]

@@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102 66, now its gone :(

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

Yes it sure does. I knew someone would notice the full length dome car!

[@superbaddy4]

R.I.P. P42DCs 66, 70, and 80.

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

They were times it did very good! On the Texas Eagle train they would have 20 cars of Mail and Express behind the coaches. This was 1999 I am talking here. By the time I saw that same train in 2004 It had dropped the Mail and Express all together and was down to just a single unit train.

[@user-AZ-phil]

I rode the "Southwest Limited" west from Kansas City and Albuquerque a couple of times during the period that Amtrak was carrying that stuff. It was better than a half hour late out of Kansas City, and over an hour late out of ABQ. On both occasions, the thru folks from Chicago were complaining about the time it took to get out of town as the "express" cars were added to the train after pulling out of Union Station. Another complaint that I heard was from small towns that the trains stopped at where multiple grade crossings were blocked, during the station stop, due to the length of the train. It was a happy time, maybe, for the pencil pushers, but something of a pain for everyone else. 😮

[@patrickhill82]

thwe chief always had 3 to 4 engines and the most freight the zephyer was usually shorter than the chief

[@lexadams4259]

The reason it was cut was not bc of overhead or anything. It was bc the freight railroads were crying. The were mad at 14 freight cars when they had 100+ car trains. It kept several routes alive and was helping to get to profitability. I understand if railroads charged a reduced fee, but no railroads demanded it gone.

[@amtrak1214]

We gotta get mail service back!

[@michaelminton1224]

I remembered seeing some of Amtrack trains here in Western NY back in the 2000's and it was interesting.

[@chambs123]

OK Danny...fully understood. Big thanks for the confirmation & info. Cheers, John.

[@chambs123]

Thanks again buddy for more information...I love learning stuff like this! All the best, John.

[@ian.whaley]

P42s are numbers 1-207, the P40s are numbers 800-843, and the P32AC-DM are numbers 700-717. The P32AC-DM units are dual mode and used only on trains on the Empire corridor in upstate New York. No model has been made of the P32AC-DM yet sadly.

[@IAIS96]

that's was AWESOME Amtrak trains

[@davidwinfield730]

Awesome rare video thumbs up.

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

Yes your are right John. By the way the P40s are the 800 series locomotives. Even by 2004 Amtrak had stopped putting Mail and Express on some trains like the Texas Eagle.

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

Thank you Curtis!

[@coast_to_coast_photos]

Surprising to see that P42 #97 still in Phase IV colors at 1:12 since 2003 was pretty much the last year the P42s wore both Phase IV and V colors. By 2004 most of the Phase IV P42s had been repainted

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

I understand. The video was taken in early June of 04.

[@coast_to_coast_photos]

I was just 1 year old at the time as well

[@user-TheBestRailfan]

Amtrak phase 4 sceme?! Rare. I have them to

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

Ok then young Astars boy. You missed out on these awesome lashups and the days when more EMD was around!

[@rms492]

Amazing from this to today’s 4-car Capitol Limited,

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

Thank you very much man!

[@SGTDUPREY]

there be none around here in the lower area of southwest washington. just cascades and the coastal starlight.

[@El_Transportacoches_33]

Box wagons, bogies to transport the trailers... The only thing missing would be to couple a few AutoTrain car transporter wagons. Then it would already be the complete Amtrak freight package.

[@maddiekits]

If we got more routes out of it I'd be fine with amtrak becoming 90% freight lmao

[@sernajrlouis]

Cool video and channel just subscribed

[@JoshuaTheTransitProdigy]

**subbed while watching**

[@skeeta1]

thats why i looked at this video. I saw a train just like this one hauling freight cars in Dunn, NC. I was shocked to see those cars hauled by an Amtrak

[@SD40Fan_Jason]

I can remember working in Arizona and seeing the Chief with more freight and less cattle (passenger) cars. For a while I thought maybe that's all they would handle after a while. It did however set a plan in place to have a solid consist over a long haul rather than having to continuously switch them out from one yard to the next.

[@DanMeyer80]

I rode the Chief in June of 2002, we definetly had more freight cars than passenger cars. To this day I still remember our locomotive consist numbers. 57, 504 (not powered, just being taken to LA) 19, 48, and 62.

[@anonymousperson9610]

Why did Amtrak discontinue carrying freight this look badass seeing boxcars behind a passenger train.

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

The freight Railroad disliked Amtrak doing this because they thought Amtrak was stealing their business and in the end Amtrak was not making all that much profit.

[@anonymousperson9610]

@@Trainsbigandsmall honestly that’s messed up and at first Amtrak did pretty well carrying mail and freight

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

I understand buddy. Thanks

[@RyansColoradoRailProductions]

0:17 thats Omega, 207, the last P42 built!

[@jasonervoes1326]

Hi great videos. Do you have any photos or videos of Amtrak with mail cars and an Amtrak caboose on the rear?

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

Yes true man. Last I saw, some of them were in storage at Harrisburg yards in 2010.

[@ConrailFreight]

1:57 where was that horn coming from?

[@silverstatehighiron]

A nearby Metra train

[@caltrain_acefoamer907]

1:13 66 before becoming a heritage unit

[@simplyjohn2]

In a few more months amtrak will do it again!

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

I just do not see it happening again, UP and BNSF objected to Amtrak hauling freight.

[@trainjack16]

+John Ballardo How do you know that ?????

[@chambs123]

It was good to see this video Danny...especially just after doing my 'Amtrak Day Vid'...this is the first time I've seen them for real [so to speak]. I assume all the locos were mainly P40's.P42's? Best, John.

[@MiniforceRailfan]

I was thinking that the Dash 8 Locomotives should run Amtrak’s Freight Service and the Auto Trains because they look like Freight Locomotives and look qualified for those Services

[@notarotomwithhair5637]

P32-8BWH a s s e n g e r

[@MiniforceRailfan]

@@notarotomwithhair5637 so the name of the Dash 8 is P32-8BWH Dash 8 Amtrak? But it looks like a Freight Locomotive qualified for Auto Train Fleets

[@notarotomwithhair5637]

True

[@notarotomwithhair5637]

The Dash 8 was made by GE as compensation because the P40DC was taking longer than expected

[@rebooted.jupiter_]

@@MiniforceRailfan it originally was, but it was basically converted to a passenger locomotive at the beech grove shops

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

You must really like the P42s.

[@RailfanMax]

Great video Danny! Any idea why they dont carry mail now?

[@Major_Tom98]

1:12 I’m surprised to see that phase IV made it all the way into 2004.

[@traindude3332]

Maybe amtrak can do freight service

[@davidwinfield730]

What is express freight, I know what they mean by it but what kind of cargo besides mail would they carry?

[@Dan-lf6bo]

They could also carry personal trailers or different types of equipment for Amtrak I'm guessing.

[@trainjack16]

They are called roadrailers

[@lukethegeneralelectrice60p80]

Oh boi did i see gret dome

[@HomerPenguin5516]

Who noticed amtrak 66 at 1:13? (R.I.P 66)

[@glendenig6419]

... on second thought, those amtrak boxcars may have been Amtrak Autotrain cars.

[@trainjack16]

They were not.

[@upstatenewyorkrailfan6775]

why did Amtrak stopped pulling mail trains?

[@trainjack16]

Budget cost

[@maxm2317]

John Vanwiel Pressure from President George W. Bush and his administration. Most Republicans, as a rule, are against Amtrak, but there are a few out there who support Amtrak. While I may not be a politician, I am a Republican, and I support Amtrak. Well, at least I did until they announced their new rules regarding private rail car moves.

[@packr72]

Max Medaglia That whole situation is weird. Amtrak is trying to move away from long distance trains and focus on regional. The long distance trains actually make more money than the regionals. They want to buy cheaper fleets of Diesel MU to replace locomotives and there is little chance those can pull old passenger cars.

[@SGTDUPREY]

MHC's, too bad they don't use that often anymore.

[@TexasRailfan21-RailfanRyan]

I wonder what the reason was why Amtrak is continued the service did it something to do with the freight railroads

[@GevoGenesis92]

When Amtrak was making money!

[@dannyvasquez4581]

theres a dome car and P42 #66 as Phase 2

[@dannyvasquez4581]

The Units are painted in Heritage schemes in 2011 were #66 as Phase 2, #184 as Phase 4, #145 & #822 as Phase 3, and #156 as Phase 1

[@AlexTraxxas]

and actually a third one in phase 3

[@coolleo149]

66 is sadly scrapped, same to 156 too

[@evanf1293]

when did amtrak discontinue this?

[@Trainsbigandsmall]

2005 or just after in 2006 the fall i saw the roadrailers on NS trains

[@evanf1293]

@@Trainsbigandsmall Ah so NS took over the mail trains then?

[@Dan-co1br]

1:20 wait WHAT THE HECK WHY IS THE BOX CARS IS LONG

[@oaktree6986]

ugh i wish i could hear the K5LAs too but the stupid no horn zones ruined it!

[@odiecalodie]

GE was not happy with Amtrak hauling Mail and Express Cars because those engines were not equipped. to haul those type of cars.

[@amtrak706]

GE didn’t care what Amtrak did, the locomotives were already bought and paid for. It was the freight railroads that objected.