When Buses and Subways Make Transit Worse

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Transit agencies have limited resources, so why do they keep running bad bus services next to good rapid transit? I discuss this problem, and potential solutions in my latest video!
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[@RMTransit]

A useful note - *of course* some folks rely on local services, which is why I emphasized that we should improve the frequency of such services. Those who can't walk 500 meters shouldn't be expected to wait for 50 minutes for a bus, and this creates a second lower quality transit system for those with mobility issues, where it is not necessary. As stated early on in the video - the issue I have is with *infrequent* parallel services. One commenter mentioned Copenhagen's approach of providing a super frequent (but sparse) bus network, layered on top of a lower frequency ~15 minute bus network that provides dense local connectivity, this should be the model!

[@RMTransit]

@@antontsau 1) I did not suggest we run a minimum service frequency of every 10, but every 15 minutes. 2) Frequent service would attract more riders, that's the point!

[@PerkeleKeyboardist]

@@antontsau that's the other side of reliability coin. If you plan to offer an upgraded bus service, it should not only meet the demand during peak hours, but provide reliable connections for people who just show up during the day, and yes, it will involve an occasional bus running empty. It's counter intuitive, but very well described in the 'Better Buses, Better Cities' book (if I remember correctly): having to run empty turns during the day for the sake of reliable service through the entirety of it 'promotes' the bus service and increases the number of commuters during peak hours, who pay fares and offset the expenses.

[@ANONAAAAAAAAA]

Public transits are not silver ballets, they fundamentally cannot move people in door-to-door manner. There are some use-cases where cars, taxis or share taxis are appropriate to take care, and moving people who can't walk is one of them.

[@kirillboyko9208]

This is an attempt to fit square peg onto a round hole. The issue is not with frequency (supply), the issue is with low demand. There is no pent up demand that would fill the increased supply of buses. Targeted solutions to meet the needs of specific groups are the right ones. Playing with frequency is not the right solution. Public transit should be public to be effective. Infrequent buses on obscure routes are just job fillers and a waste of people’s tax money.

[@joshualee-reid867]

@RMTransit While I 100% agree with you that higher frequencies should be the standard if the resources exist to do so, unfortunately of course many transit agencies in North America don't have the resources to do that. And in that case, in my view at least, increasing the accessibility of public transit to those who have mobility difficulties by offering more coverage at the cost of frequency is well worth it. In short; bus lines should always run frequently when possible, but I believe that if a transit agency has to choose between frequency and coverage they should choose coverage for accessibility reasons.

[@wasmic5z]

Here in Copenhagen, we have more or less two bus networks - there's the high frequency, pseudo-grid-based "A lines", marked with red corners of the bus. These have 4-8 minute headways during the daytime, and have night service too. Then there are all the "plain" lines, which usually have 10-15 minute headways in the weekdays and 20 minute headways in the weekend and during evenings, and often take less direct routes serving more places - though many of them are still somewhat direct. Then there are a small handful of lines with 30 minute headways and VERY circuitous routes, but these are mainly meant for seniors who need to have transit very close to their doorstep and destination, so most others don't use them. Then there are the S-buses, which are express routes, but those aren't very useful for moving around within the city itself, since they're meant for longer journeys. And there are E-buses, which duplicate the S-bus routes but skip even more stops along the way.

[@drdewott9154]

Oh yeah, I was just about to comment about Line 23 in Copenhagen, which basically runs along the eastern half of the M3 and M4 metro through the city, but only runs every 30 minutes! Mainly just to serve the elderly and others who can't walk all the way to the metro station. There are a lot of complains around here about metro and train stops being too far apart or too far away to walk to, though admittedly a lot of those people are the same who complain if they can't park their car on the exact 50 meters of road in front of their apartment.

[@jordigomezsuay]

We have a similar situation in Barcelona, with the "bus of the neighborhood" brand. They're small, circuitous, infrequent, and money-losing, but it's clear they are accessibility services for seniors, especially in hilly areas. Most of them connect with metro or rail, health centers, and other public services.

[@robertcartwright4374]

Very interesting. European cities always seem to have valuable lessons for North America.

[@syryozh6957]

what an interesting approach...

[@RMTransit]

And I would say this is the ideal situation! No transit running on a horrible 50 minute headway!

[@_aullik]

Don't forget the elderly who often can't walk the route that would take you 15 minutes.

[@LouisChang-le7xo]

you can always run perpendicular routes, just dont parallel

[@tomasbeltran04050]

Key þing, buses and trams can (ðough not always) be more appreciated by ðe elderly, pregnant moðers and ðose wiþ babies younger ðan 3 yo. Not having to walk up and down stations of massive transit (subways, BRT, etc.) and (sometimes at least) less transfers can really be valued

[@tomodomo1000]

also disabled people.

[@matthewgasparin7000]

@@tomasbeltran04050 why are you using eth and thorn? I know how to use them, but most people don’t.

[@egesanli619]

500 meters didn't seem too long

[@darynvoss7883]

I think there's one circumstance where it makes sense to have a bus run along a rapid transit line which is where the bus serves as an inline feeder for the rapid transit. Reece and I might be happy to walk 1 km to a subway station but not everyone is so nimble on their legs, so a subway system with say 2 km station spacing can be supported by a bus system with 400 m stop spacing to help get people to the subway stations. However this only makes sense if the bus is _very_ frequent.

[@warmike]

I second this. Frequent feeder buses are a really useful tool.

[@Electrify85]

I know some people disagree with this, but many cities are spread out enough that a one size fits all line just doesn't necessarily work. Otherwise you end up with a line which is too slow for long distance journeys or with stops too spaced out for convenient accessibility.

[@WerewolfLord]

Toronto has the 97 bus parallelling the Yonge subway, and I don't know about headways now, but when the portion south of Rosedale was the 27, it ran every 30 mins. Also I believe the 34 will be extended west to run alongside the Eglinton Crosstown (and an 85 branch between Sheppard and Don Mills stations that runs on a pathetic 20 mins). And, nothing at all on Bloor/Danforth. I wonder if that 50-min route in Montreal is because they *want* to get rid of it, but for some reason, *have* to keep it, like the UK's "parliamentary" trains.

[@RMTransit]

For sure, but if it runs super infrequently its helping exceptionally few people, and those it does help are waiting far too long!

[@ab-tf5fl]

"However this only makes sense if the bus is very frequent." Right, but making service very frequent is also very expensive. So, the next result is that you end up with one very frequent bus route that competes with walking, but to pay for it, you have to cut service on other routes that go longer distances for which just walking is not an option.

[@starsINSPACE]

I am disabled and can't walk much or fast. The buses don't run frequently and the difference between having to walk even a minute slower can mean over an hour of difference in geting a bus and hours if you need a transfer on your route

[@RMTransit]

Need more frequency!

[@Skyviation]

I live in Adelaide, and buses here run on a maximum 15 minute frequency during peak hours. On weekends, some buses can see frequencies as low as 2 hours. Plus, they are always late and sometimes just decide not to show up. If they have better buses, it would get people to take them instead of driving.

[@Myrtone]

Can you book a taxi? This is not to say whether the buses need to be improved or not.

[@Myrtone]

@@Skyviation Are buses in Adelaide ever timed to meet each other or to meet trains?

[@cqholt]

I usually ride an e-bike to the nearest MARTA station rather than riding a 60 min headway bus route 24.

[@LouisChang-le7xo]

hourly buses is so typical of us cities.

[@crowmob-yo6ry]

I blame the evil tyrant Kevin Leonpacher.

[@caw25sha]

Is it your own? In London they are banned on all trains and buses due to their habit of bursting into flames.

[@johnchambers8528]

I am a elderly rider with problems walking long distances. So nearby bus lines even if they are near higher speed and more frequent service meet my and many others needs for transit. It would be good if the bus routes do on occasion also serve some of the nearby rapid transit lines so you can transfer to the rapid transit if you are riding for longer distances. 😊😊

[@RMTransit]

Not a bad option, but you should be able to also use a great bus when you don't want to bike!

[@trevorvanderwoerd8915]

I know someone who lives on that 26 Dupont bus line and it is really bad, one of the worst buses in the city. Lower frequency and very inconsistent. I once walked 45 minutes to my destination and still beat the bus that I would have been waiting for.

[@PerkeleKeyboardist]

I completely disagree (finally lol). Here in Kyiv we have surface transit that follows almost all metro lines. For example, trolleybus line 7 goes exactly over M1 from the city centre to the very outskirts, and it's always packed. First of all, metro is a high-capacity high speed transport, where stations are spaced to justify their use. Busses and trolleybuses can have much more packed stopping pattern and serve more destinations directly. Sometimes you need to go from a place between two metro stations to a place between other two metro stations, and there's a LOT of examples in aforementioned M1/7 case. Second, there are people for whom a brisk 10-minute walk to the closest metro station is unbearable. People with visible and invisible disabilities, elderly people, mums with strollers - for lots of them waiting longer at a closer stop and having to transfer shortly is better although longer. In Kyiv, we have very obscure bus lines such as 2, that have headways of up to 45 minutes which is ridiculous, but they are always jam packed with people for whom a potentially 45-minute wait is easier than a 400-metre walk to the fast and frequent LRT line nearby. Third, there is a hidden time cost in case of some deep-level metros like we have here in Ukraine: escalators. If I need to travel from Shuliavska to any adjacent station on the same line M1, I will ALWAYS choose trolleybus even if there's traffic jam and 3 extra stops, it will still be faster, because going down two escalators and then up one takes more time than the actual metro ride. Finally, there is ALWAYS a question of personal preference. I hate metro. I don't like being put underground whilst I'm still alive, I don't care it's fast and cool in summer and there's LTE coverage, and yatta-yatta-yatta. Just let me look at my chestnuts blooming from a bus window.

[@PerkeleKeyboardist]

Dosen't go against cosolidation tho :D

[@ob_dowboosh]

Here you have high average frequency after combining the frequency of all lines that go through that street. For example, trolleybuses 4, 5 and 7 that go to the different outskirts of the city, go at minimal 20 min headways resulting in 7 min average minimal headway.

[@brick6347]

I keep meaning to visit Kyiv, there's a museum there I really want to visit. Every time I make plans... they get waylaid. I have been to Ukraine many times, but only the west, mostly around Lviv and Odessa and a few places in between. Oh Lviv, stunning city and it has one of the most beautiful train stations I've seen in Europe. But good lord, get rid of that parking lot in front of it! I want a photo of its Art Nouveau not some crappy old BMW!

[@mlmielke]

Many of us won't even stay able-bodied. That's a fact.

[@RMTransit]

I won't debate stop spacing as I have discussed before, but as I said in the video if a bus deserves to exist it probably deserves to be frequent. If a bus is packed running every 45 minutes, I am sure it could support running every 15!

[@generalfive7255]

Super relevant for my situation in Burnaby, outside Vancouver; I live right in the middle of two SkyTrain stations. There's a bus that stops right outside my place, but it only comes every half hour. So i often just take the 10-15 minute walk to the station instead of waiting for the bus.

[@WerewolfLord]

Walking 10-15 minutes to a station is fine and good. Until you can't.

[@bangkurni1722]

Bet it Holdom and Brentwood Mall

[@fallenshallrise]

I used to have to do this on Victoria Drive when I lived there. Walking or not wasn't an option most mornings because the closer you get to a mass transit station the more full the buses gets with people travelling to that station to transfer. Once the bus seems full the drivers just don't stop to pick anyone up so you have no choice.

[@rlwelch]

“Or a large US city” 💀 so true but sad

[@tommarney1561]

I'd like to see an analysis of what it would take to provide various US conurbations with Canadian-scale bus service and what results could reasonably be expected.

[@rlwelch]

@@tommarney1561 haha, I wish people in Toronto knew that people elsewhere were using the term “Canadian scale bus service”. The TTC isn’t perfect but I don’t think people appreciate how much better it is than our friends south of the border

[@LouisChang-le7xo]

@@rlwelch most us cities have hourly buses next to light rail downtown

[@tommarney1561]

@@rlwelch I've never heard anyone else use that term. Americans generally have no idea, even pro-transit Americans.

[@TheStickCollector]

If this is what large us cities have to deal with, I can tell you my experience in a small US town is like:

[@skyscraperfan]

In my small city buses are essential for old people, who can't walk very long. I only use the buses when I am sick, injured or have heavy luggage. As much as a like public transport, I try to avoid buses as much as possible as a bus feels like a big car. Your are stuck in the same traffic as cars, unless there is a dedicated bus lane. In Beijing I used buses quite frequently, because they come very often and they usually go along large an straight streets. So they really save you time, while costing almost nothing to ride.

[@Electrify85]

I recently moved to a moderately sized central city with a pretty good transit system, at least for its size. The irony is that living in suburban areas I figured transit here would be immaculate, but even though my employer pays for my pass, I'm so close to things I ask myself if it is worth spending an imaginary $3 when walking takes about the same amount of time as waiting for and riding transit! My rule of thumb is if it is more than 1.5 miles/2.5 kilometers, which usually comes to a 30 minute walk, I'll take transit.

[@skyscraperfan]

@@Electrify85 Walking also burns calories. I calculate with 50 kcal per kilometre. As I count them, walking means I can eat more. If you do that every day, it makes a huge difference.

[@PauxloE]

@@skyscraperfan Can eat more, or need to eat more (and pay for more food)?

[@skyscraperfan]

@@PauxloE Here in Germany food is very cheap. I never heard that somebody moves less to eat less and save money.

[@mlmielke]

​@@skyscraperfanWhen you still are able bodied, sure. But not everyone is.

[@maumor2]

You guys talking about problems of two lines and here I am in SWFL with no options at all in transit

[@MrAljosav]

What’s super strange is that Melbourne has many tram routes that parallel train lines with many tram routes running higher frequencies than the trains (at least off-peak trams run more frequently)! Examples of trams running parallel to trains are: • Route 19 and Upfield line • Route 11 and Mernda line • Route 86 and Hurstbridge line (for inner sections) • Route 96 and Hurstbridge/Mernda lines (for inner north sections) • Route 109 and Belgrave and Lilydale lines • Route 67 and Sandringham line • Route 12 used to parallel St Kilda line (before it closed and converted to light rail). Now it parallels route 96 (south of the city)! I’m sure I’ve missed some, but that’s all I can think of off the top of my head… Both transport modes (despite paralleling) are still well used.

[@cityjetproductions]

many of these tram routes were built to compete with the train lines

[@MrAljosav]

@@cityjetproductions very true!

[@laurencefraser]

That's not that weird? Sounds like a logical set up for the tram (which presuambly has more stops in a given distance) to act as a feeder for the faster train for people making longer trips. (of course, you need some lines, be they bus or tram, that meet up with one or both of these routes and head off out Away from them too...)

[@RMTransit]

This is presumably because the trains are faster, and thus people will put up with a longer wait.

[@tangiers365]

@@RMTransit no its built into the history of Melbourne trams which local councils ran back in the day competing with the various train companies. This was all standardised to the same company

[@robk7266]

In Chicago, the 56 bus parallels the blue line. However, since the blue line has so few ADA accessible stations, many people with disabilities rely on the 56 vus to take them to the nearest blue line station with an elevator, or just take the bus for the whole journey.

[@lyetender631]

As a frequent user of buses 55 and 80 in Montréal I can tell you that they are packed. Maybe the 55 cannibalises the orange line a little bit but it can only be justified by the fact that this part of Montréal between rue St-Laurent and Saint-Denis (orange line) includes perhaps some of the most service dense destination boroughs in the city. Some users probably save time compared to the 10+10 min walk between St-Laurent and the metro

[@RMTransit]

Then they should run much more often! If they are busy with poor frequency they will be even busier with good frequency!

[@rogue265]

If the bus ends before a major trip generator, the termination of an infrequent bus is the worse option, and will actually significantly reduce any transport patronage. Perth realised this very early on the design of the Mandurah line - which is why all the buses on Canning Highway generally continue to the the major trip generator (CBD). It's about the total journey time... Transferring from the infrequent to the frequent is also seen as desirable, but extremely undesirable in the opposite direction. Just as a side note, in Australia... wait time is considered 2x wait time (that every second waiting, is 2 seconds overall), and interchange time is considered as 10x (every second is considered 10 seconds), and it has been shown to be very accurate - even at somewhere like Wolli Creek, where it is 8tph meeting 6tph trains off peak - demand patterns actually show people interchanging at other locations, because the percieved wait time is too great... That is the big problem with curtailing low frequency buses prior to a major trip generator (but only if they actually have some patronage prior to the curtailment point). Data from that work place showed that if you doubled frequency, but curtailed the bus prior to the main trip generator (Route 308 is a prime example in Sydney), patronage collapsed.

[@YoungThos]

Forget about the 55 and the 14, the 30 bus runs even closer to the orange line and basically parallels the entire length of its eastern leg - and runs every 30 minutes if you're lucky. That's why they call it the 30 🙃 (BTW, I literally just transferred from the orange line to a Bixi because I didn't want to wait half an hour for the bus to take me to my final destination. In the winter I typically just walk 😅)

[@dxtxzbunchanumbers]

In NYC, this stems mostly from refusal of the agency (for decades) to add accessibility features to the subway. Their method of complying with Americans with Disabilities Act is to run the buses and paratransit, creating a perception that these services are for the poor (even if fares are the same, or sometimes greater). The MTA's leadership only just figured out how this is penny wise and pound foolish; they're now figuring out they can just eat the onetime cost in elevators, removing the need to run service that is redundant and unpopular even with the population that is served.

[@nycres]

Elevators are not a one-time cost. They require extensive ongoing inspection, maintenance, and repair to stay functional and safe. This could of course be offset by reducing or eliminating bus routes. But has the MTA been able to do that as a result of subway stations getting elevators?

[@dxtxzbunchanumbers]

We also don't need to eliminate bus service, the one service that is 100% ADA compliant, we need subways to be ADA compliant. The MTA is running an apartheid transit system, then putting disabled people into a segregated cab system that is run by mobbed up paratransit companies. It's absurd.

[@BruscoTheBoar]

History has a political example. During the cold war, the Berlin S-Bahn in the west-sectors of the city was still run by Deutsche Reichsbahn from the east. The west boycoted it by running buses on the highway that's mostly in parallel to the ringbahn. So yes. You had bus stops on the highway.

[@rulipari]

We have this problem in Berlin with the 221 Bus and U6 between Kurt-Schumacher-Platz and Leopoldplatz. (technically even between Scharnweberstraße and Leopoldplatz) North of Kurt-Schumacher-Platz the 221 runs every 10 Minutes, but on the section to Leopoldplatz it's only every 20 Minutes - if the bus is punctual. However oftentimes, that section is skipped if the Busses are too delayed. When I complained about that to the Transit agency, they told me that the line sees too infrequent use to try to better the situation. I proposed a Bus line that would serve our section better - even just cutting it off from 221 and having its own line here so that were not dependent on the delays of other lines. The BVG says that we can just go use the U-Bahn though, which at the widest sections is about 800m away from the Bus.

[@PauxloE]

That's strange. Whenever I use that bus (~ once a month at early afternoon from S Eichborndamm to Transvaalstraße), it is super-full. Though at least they recently changed them to larger buses. Though when the construction works on the northern part of the U6 are finished, I likely also will not use that bus anymore.

[@trainluvr]

A most classic RM video! Real time bus tracking that is reliable can be a big part of the solution. the worse the service level, the higher is the reliance of loyal customers on tracking. Having such info displayed at 'proper bus stations' with shelter, seating and more. The real solution is accurate pricing of driving - something we won't see for a long time.

[@veonnisual]

Agreed, as an occasional user of the bus he is talking about, it comes every 30 mins so I only take it if I the next-bus arrival system says its coming within the next 10 mins. Or else I'll find an alternate route.

[@raymondwang3110]

Totally agree! The Transit app is great for this on mobile, but I'd love to see more agencies adopt "next bus" arrival screens like TransLink's RapidBus network :)

[@RMTransit]

Accurate tracking is good, frequency is better!

[@sammymarrco47]

I think a main reason for this, especially in the US and Canada, is due to the Americans with disabilities, and the Canadian equivalent, transit agencies are required to run buses to cover more area, especially for elderly and disabled people, because buses are often seen as something for the low income and disabled so it makes sense from that perspective, but it’s not great.

[@mlmielke]

Many of us also won't stay able-bodied.

[@theretronavigator]

1:06 the Q24, B47 and B46 on Broadway in Brooklyn, NY running parallel to the J train's entire Broadway run between Broadway Junction and Marcy Ave. And the traffic between Myrtle Avenue-Broadway and Flushing Avenue is RIDICULOUS.

[@Banom7a]

i suspect those exist as an ADA compliance route.

[@martinbitter4162]

Here in Duisburg Germany, buses are considered a poor persons transport. Almost all routes are infrequent with a 30 minute wait seen as good. So if you have a car, there is no incentive to use public transit.

[@lemontektransport]

Recently in Hong Kong, many routes the government tender out conflict with many existing, high frequency routes, and also don't serve enough areas, take Ching Tin Estate routes for example. It was tendered out to citybus and started running a couple years ago. CTB 50 a half day service between Ching Tin and Kowloon have low passenger numbers due to competition from the MTR and KMB providing faster, more frequent and cheaper services (this route runs every 20 - 35 minutes). (Every time I see this route there's almost no one on board) CTB 50M the all day service between Wo Tin and Tuen Mun MTR conflicts with the Light Rail and MTR buses for the majority of the journey. The bus runs every 15 - 20 minutes all day while the light rail runs every 2 - 10 minutes making passenger numbers low during non-peak. The route is also very circuitous causing it to take longer that it should take due to bad planning. CTB 56 and 56A two services that runs on weekdays between Ching Tin and Sheung Shui/Fanling highly overlap with existing minibus route 44A and 44A1 which combined provides services every couple minutes making 56 and 56A have lower passenger numbers. Then there's the most useless of the series... 50R which is a after event special from HK Coliseum to Ching Tin... Who thought it was a good idea to run a special departure of a route with almost no patronage? btw the transport department designed all these routes... 78C, 78X and 79X are also really bad as being circuitous, also designed by the transport department (just look at the routes on a map)

[@DerekHoffman-rc6lf]

You hit the nail on the head with Montreal buses. The 14 runs directly in front of my door, and stops within a block of my gym, doctors office and a good friend’s house. I’ve taken it once in the last year, when I miraculously spotted it as I was leaving home. Otherwise it’s always been faster to walk or Bixi for these 2-3 km trips than wait for it 30-45 minutes (or possibly longer).

[@MK-fc2hn]

I live nearby myself, and from experience, the 14 route requires planning.. by either knowing the schedule in advance, or verifying it on google maps in advance of departing your home. Nothing wrong in my opinion with it being an infrequent line, but you have to plan accordingly, otherwise you'll have a good chance of having to wait. And who wants to wait for a bus.. 😂 The 14 btw used to be a trolley line, and dates back to atleast the 1910's. It would be a shame if stm took it away along with its other infrequent bus routes. Especially for those who find it useful.

[@cartamarpharious]

This is great and the points made are clear. But if you could could you expand on this in a future video where disability and accessibility are taken into account more? Consolidation is efficient but it leaves greater distances to be traveled by foot which may not be accessible to some. Perhaps temporary roots could be used at specific times.

[@RMTransit]

This is why I suggested that routes which provide critical access need to be made frequent, having accessibility challenges shouldn't force you to wait 50 minutes to transit.

[@jamesphillips2285]

@@RMTransit The DATS service in Edmonton has even longer wait times: and you have to pre-book.

[@cartamarpharious]

@@RMTransit alrighty I must have not audio processed that bit. Thank you.

[@danachos]

@@RMTransit I adore your videos, and you address these points in the video, but this topic is one people are going to be sensitive about, so it might have been worth it to be a little explicit in considerations for elderly and disabled folks

[@dorianscheifinger1629]

Frequencies of 30 and 50 minutes near the center of a city with 2 million inhabitants seems insane to me. Here in Vienna you'll only find such frequencies on the night buses. During weekdays and even on weekendends there really isn't any bus/tram/metro line with frequencies of more than 10min, even though there are a lot of lines that run less than 500 meters parallel to each other. So waiting more than 7 or 8 minutes for any line anywhere in the city is quite unusual, especially during the week. But then again, I guess here in Vienna we are quite spoiled concerning public transit.

[@woodywoodverchecker]

I live along an infrequent bus route and have just printed the timetable and stuck it to my apartment door. If I have too much time, I carry the garbage out or do some other chore that I would have to do anyway. It also helps that the bus arrives in ±1 minutes of its desired time here.

[@LuckyOwl2114]

Reece, long time viewer and fan of RMT. Thank you for doing these videos. I'm a transit operator in a medium sized municipality. I hate to say it, but I do think your point is a little off the mark here. I can read from your comments below that you've already acknowledged people who are disabled and senior populations that require above-ground, near residence service, so kudos for recognizing that there is a need there. I pick up so many people who can barely walk and only need to go one stop. I can say with some degree of confidence there are many reasons why a route may have infrequent service. Whether it's a shortage of drivers and/or working busses, prioritizing other high-usage routes, or just simple lack of passengers, there's almost always a reason for a route's existence and current status. In my system, there was a route that was deliberately shortened during a large construction project. This shortening made for a much quicker journey for passengers, most of whom were heading towards the final stop - a large shopping centre. When the construction concluded, the route was not immediately restored because it was served, in part, by two other separate routes. Anyone hoping to get to the shopping centre along this particular portion of the route would now have to take two busses (or just one, and walk about 20 minutes). The local community fought to get service fully restored, but resources had since been reallocated to other routes. Eventually, the route was restored to its original routing with one caveat: more infrequent service across all three routes. Another interesting point is that not a lot of people on this part of the route even take the bus, because incomes are higher, people own cars, etc. Even if the level of service was increased beyond what it was prior to construction, I don't think we'd start seeing full busses all of a sudden. People have better options. Anyways, I digress. My point is this: there are always going to be trade-offs. Every system does not have limitless funding and resources to throw at a route, and we can't continuously run empty busses up and down a road at high frequency just expecting people to suddenly appear. Maybe it's sad, but a retired senior is more likely to be able to accompany their grocery-shopping schedule around a bus that runs once an hour compared to a work commuter who needs to get to their job on time.

[@SvenBiggs]

I just got back from a trip to Montreal. I really enjoyed using transit to explore the city. The one exception to that was the 55 route bus which was always involved long waits and crowded buses. So I just stopped using it and walked to the Metro instead but clearly lots of people are still trying to use the line.

[@LeZylox]

Why is reece so keen on removing stops for frequency? Coverage is way more important and makes more trips possible and not some trips faster

[@silverkobo]

Coverage without regular frequency is unusable, while low coverage is manageable.

[@mlmielke]

​@@silverkobothis all depends.

[@RMTransit]

There isn't something "more important" you need to balance the tradeoffs.

[@RamseyKilani]

It's a balance and far too often north American transit agencies are too far on the side of too many stops.

[@RobertBloomquist]

Great video. The book "Better Buses, Better Cities" talks about this, and discusses several cities that revamped their bus network to get better frequencies along the important corridors. Paratransit is often overlooked as a tool here, to help the people with disabilities or mobility issues that cannot walk the extra distance. Often, transit agencies looking to revamp their system to get better frequencies along fewer corridors will pair this with expansions of their paratransit services to help cover the gaps. And for everyone in between, better walkability always helps this along. It's one thing if the high-frequency rapid transit is only 400 meters away, but it doesn't really matter if that 400 m includes crossing a six-lane highway with no good pedestrian access.

[@supakat1835]

Thos happened to me yesterday where I was waiting for the bus. I missed the bus I needed to get on by 1 minute, 20 minute frequency. Than next bus said it will be 14 minutes late, & the alternative route where I have to walk 4 blocks another 10 minutes. So I ended up walking 8 blocks to the train, & took that instead.

[@anthonyscarborough3813]

In many parts of Chicago, you’ll encounter this exact situation with how the CTA Buses connect to the L.

[@kirillboyko9208]

I think that the rationale for slow infrequent bus line is that some interest group went up to the city commission and lobbied hard for the line that serves their particular needs. Kinda like a bus that ties a few senior living center with shopping malls or medical centers, or a few residential neighborhoods with specialty high schools. This can be served by the specialty paratransit services, like senior citizens shuttle services or school buses. Sending regular buses to these kinds or routes feels like a waste for the large swaths of riding public, but for those special communities, it helps them very much. From the perspective of city planners it’s tomAto/tomah-to, the same budget subsidies both types of transit. Long story short - public transit is not just about grids and frequency, it’s about helping specific groups of people achieve specific transportation goals.

[@mlmielke]

There's a high percentage of people who need close access routes. Not being as able to walk as people who are only after speed suggest.

[@baystated]

All routes get the same image line on the map but they aren't designed for everybody. And it looks like these routes aren't designed for young and fit people like Reese. But that doesn't mean they should get erased. They don't demand much of the agency's resources so what is the problem with a few routes being low frequency for people who can't reach routes farther away? I'd like to see Reese take a better look at his own "optimal" design through the lens of the elderly and others with mobility challenges. He touches upon it, but it doesn't sound like he understands.

[@RMTransit]

These routes tend to be short, which is why I mention their frequency should be increased. It usually would only require marginally more resources and would attract more riders! Those who are elderly and have mobility challenges should be even less expected to put up with 50 minute waits!

[@andrewpotato6002]

In London, there are plenty of popular bus routes that run aligned to a tube line. The central line, shepherds bush to Tottenham court road comes to mind. The bus is cheaper in central london and easier to evade fares on due to the lack of barriers.

[@CnekYT]

I live in Calgary and the southern Red Line has a massive issue with this (especially with Shawnessy Station) the 52, 78, 81, 102, etc

[@WeMissRevis]

Here in NY, we have some parallel bus/subway routes where the bus runs better/equivalent headways, especially in the peak shoulders (I'm looking at you, J & Q56). That means the bus can actually be more convenient than the subway that runs over it if your trip is short and not within a block or two of the subway stop.

[@garrettmillard525]

This frustrating issue is insanely common in the U.S., but it's mostly a function of multiple disparate transit providers failing to integrate with each other whatsoever. When it's Toronto, with one agency, it's just embarrassing. Only caveat is lines that serve e.g. a senior center or similar.

[@waynecase2705]

I think that you are forgetting about the many people that cannot walk that distance to the subway and rely on the bus to get to it....people such as myself at 72 who cannot walk even 1 block and would use the bus to get to the subway or other places along the line that I might need to visit. Also handicapped people who use a wheelchair and others who would need the bus to get to the subway as well. Remember you are not the only person who uses the transit system.

[@raylee17]

What I found interesting about the 15 min walk to subway is that in Asia, where people often say they have good public transport, it's quite typical to walk such distance to get to subway, while people in North America, even for places like Toronto which has a descent public transportation network (although not great), that 15 minute walk seems like an agony, and people with home or offices 15 min walk away from the station would never tell you they live close to the subway. I think the key is the design of the stations and their exits. In Asia, whether you look at Seoul, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, Osaka or Taipei, you often find that a subway station would come with 10 to 20 exits, and many of them are quite far away from the actual station body. They build long tunnel that connects an "exit" to the station body, and I have walked an exit that is 1.2 km long in Tokyo. A walk "inside" that station that takes 15-20 minutes are quite typical actually in Asia, but then the exit to the ground that is actually 15-20 min walk away from the station is then built right next to where you want to go to. That 15-20 min walk inside the station vs. the same walk on the street is perceived differently in people's mind. If you are walking in the station exit tunnel for 15 min, you "think" your home is right next to the station, but when you need to walk outside in the elements for 15 min to get to the station exit that is right on top of the platform, you would think your home is far away from the station, and therefore start to get into a car and drive. The walk really is the same but you get a really different outcome. I think what Toronto needs to do is to build more exits that are further away from the station body, especially along streets that have a lot of apartments, such as along Yonge Street between Sheppard and Cummer, or along Sheppard between Leslie and Yonge, or along Eglinton. That will bring more people into the high capacity transportation systems, and those infrequent short range buses that are supposed to be bringing people from 15 min walk away to the stations can then be eliminated. I would think building pedestrian tunnels connecting to the stations would be easier than building tracks.

[@lzh4950]

For Singapore if a train station is a 15min walk away, usually* there'll also be a connecting bus to that station too. *Some exceptions do exist though & public transport planning & co-ordination can be improved here e.g. the new public housing in the northern edge of Hougang suburb (beside Institute of Mental Health) only recently got a public bus (114) connecting it to the nearest train station (Buangkok), ~1km to the east. Before that you only had buses to Hougang station instead that's further away. Also while Telok Blangah train station was completed in 2011, it'd be another 3 yrs before there were public buses (120) connecting it to Telok Blangah suburb to the north, which beforehand was served only by buses (124, 272-3) that went to Bt Merah town centre instead that was not only further away, but required yet another bus transfer (to 132) to get to a train station (RedHill). Additionally while Joo Koon station opened in 2009, it was more quiet in its 1st 6 yrs of operation due to a lack of connecting buses to industrial estates that sprawl out of the station (252 was the only bus that did so). Those buses were initially still operating out of the older Boon Lay station ~4km further away, until they were re-routed in 2015.

[@BlueGrovyle]

The walk is not "the same" if you consider that most places in the US are uncomfortable to walk outside in. 15 minutes of walking alongside other people vs. 15 minutes walking alongside cars.

[@jlelliotton]

There is also the "one size fits all" issue. I live in downtown Toronto and I see the Rosedale 82 bus leaving Rosedale station with only a few people on board, but it is a full size bus. This is a route that would be better served with smaller buses and with those you could have more frequent service. Mind you, I usually walk downtown. The Wellesley 94 route runs every 10 minutes between Castle Frank and Wellesley which takes 11 minutes, but walking is often faster if you aren't going the full route (which takes 27 minutes to walk).

[@RMTransit]

The issue with smaller buses is they rarely save a transit agency much better, service should just be more frequent!

[@Dqtube]

I know this. I have a 15 minute walk to the train station and have never taken a bus there, although the option exists because buses operate infrequently, so the total time with the bus is worse for me than walking. Also, now that there is an option to buy train tickets online/app I usually go on time so I enter the platform when the train arrives.

[@itt2055]

In the city I live in, buses have the right of way. When a bus has its indicator on all other vehicles must let the bus change lanes or pull out of the bus stop. This creates a better flow for the buses and has also lowered traffic congestion. The public transport system is designed extremely well to the point that over 80% of the people in my city use public transport to get to work. With the use of a guided busway the bus only takes 15 minutes to get from the outer city suburbs to the city centre but by car it takes around 45 minutes to an hour and a half depending on the time of day. Guided busways have all the advantages of rail but at a fraction of the cost with the added benefit that the buses can be used for normal bus services.

[@MarcThe_Shark]

Great video, and this is something that I have experienced throughout the greater Seattle region. But I think you missed accounting for geography/terrain. Where I live, there was a frequent route at the bottom of the hill, and an infrequent feeder route that ran up the hill and parallel. The frequent bus was only a 7 minute walk, but when the infrequent feeder route was removed due to restructuring, older people now refuse to walk down the hill and opt to drive instead.

[@matthewlee9342]

1:50 an Example of this scenario for me is similar, as in just outside of downtown in the Riverdale Area. When I want to go to Donlands Station from the Stop at Jones and Boultbee, I will usually just walk up to the station since the Bus runs every 15 Minutes, even though the Walking time is Similar to the Buses' Frequency. by the time it Reaches my stop I would already be at Danforth

[@markberg6197]

The worse example is the 97 young bus right above the subway

[@effeo9962]

Yonge

[@evansandham46]

I was just about to say this!! What's the point of the 97 Yonge bus?! I don't get it

[@jacobfalardeau676]

Maybe you are comfortable walking 1 kilometre to the subway but there are plenty of elderly people who do not. I and most of my co-workers at the Loblaws at Yonge/Yonge Blvd took that bus to and from work because the alternative was a 15 minute walk uphill or a 20 minute walk to Lawrence station.

[@vincentvegeta6172]

Tellement bien vu Reece ! 👌 à méditer, et à mettre en pratique.

[@mewosh_]

Here in Warsaw large parts of our metro have busy tram routes running literally above providing a service with more frequent stops. On the 8km downtown section of the M1 there are metro stations every kilometer (with 2 large gaps because of unbuilt stations) and there's a separated tram above with stops every 300 meters.

[@seprishere]

Surely there needs to be consideration for those who need the local because they can't walk far?

[@RMTransit]

I agree! That's why I mentioned we shouldn't run such low frequency services, if the bus route is important it should also be frequent! People who can't walk shouldn't be left behind.

[@seprishere]

@@RMTransit Is hourly daytime insufficient? Maybe it is.

[@seprishere]

@@RMTransit Maybe, is hourly not good enough?

[@Videowatcher10p]

Parallel buses are probably there when the subway line adjacent has many inaccessible stations

[@mlmielke]

Lack of redundancy is much more an issue than the concern brought here. The best systems do have redundancies.

[@a81517]

In Chicago, the 36 runs next to some of the north red line but it's always very busy.

[@mrmoomooface1662]

My city (Glasgow) has loads of bus routes duplicating rapid transit or near-rapid transit routes, and the weird part is people actually use them a lot. In Scotland since 2022 ,Under 22s and over 6somethings get free bus travel here, whereas trains are paid, but these buses were still heavily used before this was introduced. They were even more expensive than taking the train in some cases! Frequencies on these routes tend to be pretty good so that's my best explanation for this, people find them more covenient because they require less walking and in some cases have frequencies better than trains.

[@PauxloE]

I think having a common fare system for all modes of transit is something important, so people chose for good reasons, not for "which is cheaper".

[@mrmoomooface1662]

@@PauxloE yeah Glasgow is terrible for that. The subway and commuter rail are completely separately fared so its absolutely never financially sensible to transfer from the rail to the subway! (also subway is like twice as expensive for a return fare for me because they don't accept my railcard)

[@talideon]

Dublin has a variation of this that's gradually being fixed. It has to do with two things: too many routes being routed through the city centre due to a lack of orbital routes and interference with route planning from local politicians. This has lead to a situation where there are bus routes that are slight variations on each other to appease local demands. Part of the solution has been to replace per-journey fees with 90 minute windows, which makes interchanges much more attractive. The other thing is the introduction of orbitals, which means that if you want to get from one part of the city on the same side of the river to the other, you're not stuck going into town. What people are fighting tooth and nail against is the consolidation of radial routes, as they see it as their service being taken away.

[@JamesMCrutchley]

I live in Surrey, BC. We have a bus route called R1 which is a rapid bus that runs every 10 min. We also have a bus called the 321 which serves the same route but goes further on one end by about 20 miles to another city. It runs about every 30 min. They are both completely packed for most of the day until late at night. The 321 stops at every stop. The R1 only stops about every 4 blocks. The R1 will get you from one side of the city about as fast as a car. Sometimes during rush hour it is actually faster because of how the streets are configured to favor it. Removing the 321 would leave a significant number of elderly and disabled unable to get to about a third of the route due to distance. If you are physically able this does not matter. But either way the route exists for a reason. It would not make sense to make the 321 more frequent. It is a point to point commuter line and the other bus is for people who need to get off between stops the faster bus does not stop at. What would you do in this case? It is always super busy for both busses too.

[@lukehalmrast7366]

Not sure what point you're trying to prove in this video Reece. Here in Vancouver we have local bus service running along the entire Canad line corridor, (route 15 for the Cambie portion and the 403 for the Richmond portion) and those bus routes get high ridership. We also have the 19 crosstown service which runs along kingsway which parallel's the expo line and in walking distance of skytrain, and that bus is constantly busy and overcrowded on the kingsway portion. Needless to say, local bus service near or on rapid transit corridors isn't always useless and a "waste of resources".

[@jrochest4642]

I live at St Clair on Avenue Road. There is a bus stop right in front of my building, but the bus only comes every 30 minutes and is so consistently off schedule that walking ten minutes to Yonge and St Clair is seriously the only option I've ever considered.

[@C.Q.Q]

In Hong Kong, there are numerous bus routes that operate directly above metro lines. But their combined frequencies are still frequent, and are great at travelling to or from places on the metro line but relatively far away from metro station.

[@mlmielke]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with two parallel routes. You just need to understand their purpose. Rather than dismiss and remove access.

[@drdewott9154]

What you're talking about is pretty common in Sweden. And in Denmark where I'm from such measures have been proposed a few times, notably in Aalborg ahead of their BRT opening. They were debating on how to reshape the transit network once their BRT line would open, and involving the public, and one proposal meant having fewer lines but have them be less winding, and all running every 7.5 minutes! However a lot of the public were against it for having to walk too far to the bus, and I quote "Discriminating against the disabled and people with poor walking ability". So it got scrapped, and the bus network stayed largely the same, with around 10 minute service on most lines during peak hours, but every 20-30 minute service off peak.

[@ryebreadisepic]

I also lived in the Dupont and Christie area for a few years, until about a year ago. I went to U of T and it just wasn't worth taking any of the buses on Dupont, Christie, or Davenport. I would just walk all the way to campus cause it would take 30 minutes, otherwise I'd be paying 3ish bucks to save 5-10 mins on my commute. Lovely area though, we might have walked past each other at some point lol.

[@collinpearsall9084]

We have this issue in Chicago with the 56 bus. It runs on Milwaukee Ave which is basically the same alignment as the blue line. In many cases the bus stops for the route are at the same intersection as the L stops.

[@alexhaowenwong6122]

San Diego is planning the Purple Line regional rail with 3 miles between stops even in dense areas and 10 min frequencies. They're also planning a BRT line with 10 min frequencies that will closely parallel it to provide local service. I say scrap the BRT line, automate the Purple Line, run it every 2 minutes, and put stops a mile apart in dense areas. Which is exactly what the Sepulveda Heavy Rail will be.

[@robertcartwright4374]

Automated metro trains definitely offer the most convenience.

[@elefante8572]

Where can I find more info on the planning?

[@phoenix-urban9746]

In Phoenix the transit agency explained this as an ADA problem. They did not want to put Light Rail stops every 1/2 mile but that is required for an ADA compliant transit service. It creates the problem of more stops on a high capacity line, or running a parallel service to comply with the requirements.

[@nolitopnice]

I live right on the corner ! This is my daily struggle haha ! Great video

[@genevievebeaupre4029]

The 55 Saint-Laurent bus is useful because it connects to the Saint-Laurent station. If I arrive from the green line and need to go, say, Laurier/Saint-Laurent. I don't wanna transfer and take the 80 or the orange line, and then walk 10 minutes... Plus, I would need to do the same on the way back. I'm old and tired, a 10 min walk isn't negligible.

[@RMTransit]

But that why I said if routes are important they should also be frequent! You would only benefit from a more frequent 55!

[@dallasgrful]

I just moved to Montreal from Vancouver and I gotta say, I miss transit in Vancouver, bus frequency was 8-15 on most routes. The 185 bus I usually takes runs every half hour. Thankfully I’m close enough to the metro.

[@RMTransit]

Its surprising how poor bus service is in Montreal

[@danvernier198]

In Stockholm they split the busses into various cathegories so that they can serve both the elderly who might have trouble biking or walking and relieve the metro. Close traffic busses on demand that you call 30 minutes in advance if you have mobility issues and they send a small bus of 5-20 seats with a wheelchair lift. Close traffic busses with about two dozen fixed lines running very infrequently about once an hour specifically targeting hospitals, retiree communities and community centres numbered in the in the nine hundreds. Suburban buses numbered from the hundreds to the eight hundreds depending on which suburb they serve usually running between 10 and 30 minute frequency with 19 to 47 seats. Suburban direct busses that take the highway in and out of the city with about 10 minute frequency in rush hour but as low as every other hour outside of rush hour and 68 seats. Stem buses with two digit numbers across the inner city with 10 or 15 minute frequency and 19-47 seats. Blue stem busses with single digit number serving expanded versions of the network used by the trams before they built the metro, they usually run on 3 or 4 minute frequency, 47 seats and have frequent stops, serving as circle lines to the metro which doesn't have any. (They're called blue because all other lines are red.) This might seem convoluted but it kind of adresses the issue of people who can't walk or bike to the metro, light rail or commuter rail.

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

The problem in Montreal is that the orange line of theMetro is already saturated at rush hours. Having an alternate surface route for those who would travel just over a few stations on St-Laurent (shopping and restaurants) diverts some _traffic_ from the already saturated** Metro for those traveling over longer distances. **No one wants to be shoved in like they are in Japan.

[@RMTransit]

It's not actually saturated, I think headways get down to like 2:30? Line 14 in Paris (and the Orange Line someday) can operate up to every 90s!

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

​@@RMTransitThey'll never be able to reach 90s on the orange line in its current state without major change because of the _aiguillage_ (switch ??) at the Henri-Bourassa station in the North direction to Laval. Trains have to almost come to a stop to go across it for safety reasons. A system cannot operate at a faster pace than its slowest point. Putting many more trains wouldn't get things any faster because of this brilliant built-in bottleneck.

[@crowmob-yo6ry]

The San Francisco area has way too many of these bad bus routes.

[@MDCruzPictures]

Here in the Philippines, buses (BRT) run underneath the MRT because it can't handle the excess load of passengers (fewer trains), it's cheaper, and it stops at major malls along the route.

[@fernbedek6302]

I would guess a lot of those routes, with higher population densities, have a high enough density of the elderly and disabled who can't walk, so it needs more than dial-a-ride service, but most people can walk to the subway (enjoying exercise even if it's a minute or two slower), so the planners see little rider benefit likely to come from running more frequently?

[@RMTransit]

Just feels like the classic “there’s no demand for this infrequent bus!” Problem

[@erkinalp]

then serve smaller buses but more often

[@MrBirdnose]

@@erkinalpSmaller buses don't usually make economic sense because they still require one driver per bus.

[@fernbedek6302]

@@erkinalp I do believe drivers are the primary expense for operations. Until we get self driving buses that's going to be the limit. Especially as there's also driver shortages in many cities, not just funding shortages.

[@mlmielke]

​@@erkinalpSmaller buses aren't saving dollars just because they're smaller. Agencies have found that conventional buses expend the same as smaller buses.

[@heinzgebers8488]

Another major factor to consider is the quality of the busses. Here in Toronto, the transit agency uses mostly Nova built busses. Unfortunately, said busses are extremely uncomfortable, boxy, rattling "Bouncy Castles on wheels", without the appearance of minimal suspension. Seating is hard and compounded with the lousy state of our streets, makes riding busses a royal pain. Those in charge of purchasing rolling stock for the agency, should at least use the products prior to signing on the dotted line. And perhaps during service as well. The Line 3 replacement busses are a prime example on how to make transit, although relatively fast, extremely uncomfortable.

[@Skyviation]

Hong Kong is a very good example on how public transit should be built. They have multiple routes running in every direction, but the buses can still intersect at a few interchanges, making it easy to transfer. Also, most buses take a somewhat direct route, usually with a loop at either end and going straight through the city center. They also have a high frequency, with buses arriving as little as every 3-5 minutes, and even on average up to every minute on different routes that start at different points but run along the same route. Also, there is almost always a bus interchange within a 15-20 minute walk from your house, usually next to MTR stations, which makes it easy to go from bus to subway. Even places with less people, there would be a bus running every 20-30 minutes, or a minibus, which is a bus but smaller.

[@kailahmann1823]

I think, these busses need to be values as "walking aid" for those people, who can not walk (or bike) to a rapid transit option. I see this with the old lady living above me: I often meet her at the next bus stop from here to the city center waiting for a 9 minute bus-ride to the central square. Walking there would take me _less_ time (because the bus doesn't go right through the pedestrian zone), but those 600 meters are no option for her.

[@RMTransit]

Of course, but thats why I mentioned it should be made frequent! Those who can't walk shouldn't have to wait for an hour, and if they need to they may not take transit!

[@smileyeagle1021]

I think that the one city that gets the parallel routes right is, oddly enough, Salt Lake City. The route 200 runs between 1/4 and 1/2 mile from the main trunk of the Trax light rail system (the route 200 is in a straight line, it is Trax that weaves a bit inconsistent on distance). It runs every 15 minutes, as compared to, depending on where on the trunk line you are, every 5 minutes or a 5/10 split (A blue line train comes through, 5 minutes late a red line train comes through, 10 minutes after that, the next blue line train comes through, etc), so it meets your frequency requirement, plus it is running through one of the most heavily developed corridors in the city and also the most crowded section of the light rail. There were a lot of times when I was living in Salt Lake that I would take the route 200 bus, even though it would have been slightly quicker for me to just walk to the Trax station and take a train, because I knew the train would be standing room only and I would probably be able to get a seat on the bus. The 205 as an infill bus route between the 200 and the 209 (both of which run every 15 minutes) is another great example of parallel routes done right. It is half a mile from each one, runs every half hour, which really isn't frequent enough, however to the point about it shouldn't be quicker to walk to the next closest route that is more frequent, it follows a route between the two where there are frequently barriers between where the 205 runs and how you would get to the 200 or the 209 (not the least of which being 7th East, a massive stroad with 4 lanes each direction and a 45 mph speed limit). Salt Lake is definitely one of those cities that is really weird. A city that gets so much wrong (like building high speed stroads everywhere) also gets so much right (like having the foresight to build their light rail platforms ridiculously long for what they needed when the system first opened to accommodate longer trains as the system grew).

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Having rapid transit or even regional rail provide express service while a bus provides local service would make sense. We even have an example in the Boston area: Bus route 34/34E from the Forest Hills rapid transit station out to Dedham Mall (34) or Walpole Center (34E), which closely parallels the Franklin/Foxboro Commuter Rail line. I don't ride either of these myself, but I have a friend who used to ride both lines, and who said he and his friend were exceptions, with most people riding either the Commuter Rail for service all the way into Boston or the bus for local service; in this case BOTH the bus and Commuter Rail having low service frequencies (but the bus being more frequent). Since each attracted its own share of loyal riders, it makes sense to have both. Not saying the T deserves praise for their low frequency (and increasingly unreliable), but occasionally they accidentally do something useful.

[@streamin16]

Frick that’s a good idea for Montreal. I take the 55 or the 129 to work all winter. I could also take the 80 which drives by the 55/129 stop at Saint Catherine but unfortunately it doesn’t stop there. In the summer I don’t even bother with the bus because it’s too slow and crowded compared to the bixi bikes. Combining those three bus routes into one would make my miserable winter waiting more manageable.

[@johnmyers8633]

Man, now I feel so glad that I live in Berlin. It's unheard of for a bus to run less than once every 20 minutes. Most buses run every 10 minutes with service up to every 5 minutes, during peak time. Although with regards to running buses parallel to rapid transit. The 100 bus connects Alexanderplatz to the Zoo, which directly mirrors the much, much faster S-Bahn overground train line. No one in their right mind when trying to get between the two termini would take that bus. However, it does have a purpose. It is an extremely popular tourist route, where tourists can ride a bus on the public transport network, avoiding tour bus fees, while seeing many of the sites in Berlin.

[@tonydarcy7475]

We have the same problem in Melbourne, Australia. Buses often have very low frequencies (often every 30-45 minutes) and have very indirect routes in an attempt to ensure almost everyone is close to public transport, but this generally results in very low ridership because even in places where the closest train station is 40 or 50 minutes walk away, it is usually quicker to just walk. But of course in practice this just leads to these bus routes running with less than 5 or so passengers most of the day and a lot more people driving, either to the train station or to their destination. I agree that more direct, longer & higher frequency bus routes would help fix the issue - it might take some people 20 minutes to walk to instead of 10, but this would be more than made up for by increased frequencies and reduced journey times. This has already been proven with our smart bus network, which provides long and direct radial routes and are the only ones I see at least half full most of the day. Now we just need to apply the same principles to the rest of the bus network.

[@juselara02]

Same thing here! I moved like 25 minutes walking from Wilson station and was really happy because TTC 104 bus has a stop like 40 meters from my door. Quite honestly, I have taken that bus like 5 times in six months. Supposedly it passes every 30 minutes but it is never on time so now I just walk the 25 minutes a quite often ended up saving time

[@RamonKeller-lc5qh]

In Sydney all the express bus routes to the city use up all the buses. Thus, the buses going from suburb to suburb, and suburb to train station get horrific frequencies of every 25 minutes off peak. This is all despite the express bus routes usually start at rail stations! Castle Hill and Bella Vista!

[@erikziak1249]

Having paralell "slow" lines next to rapid transit makes perfect sense, as the rapid transit stops are spread too far apart to attract riders, even if they live next to the track. A "slow" paralell bus can have 3 or 4 stops between each rapid transit stop. The other possibility is to add stops to the rapid transit system, which can lead to it being not rapid at all.

[@cycleforlife360]

Thanks for another informative video. I live in Kuala Lumpur suburb of Taman Desa, served by popular bus route 650 to KL City hub of Pasar Seni with decent 20 peak/30 off peak minutes frequencies. In 2023 when MRT2 line started and to boost ridership the MRT2 corporation added a feeder bus service T585 about 2 km to Kuchai MRT Station to same suburb served by route 650 with frequency of 30 minutes which are hopelessly long to wait. As a result you will be lucky to see a handful of riders on T585 and dozen during peak. Even more funny is that the new T585 feeder bus routes run opposite direction to old 650 often with no bus shelters. To promote the tens of billon dollar MRT investment the feeder buses are branded as MRT and to average car centric commuters you only use these MRT buses if you want to feed into MRT!

[@walawala-fo7ds]

Totally agree. Removing low usage lines will also force people who are transit dependent to move to places that are already transit dependent, which makes existing transit more profitable and easier to improve plus makes demand for transit dependent housing stronger ensuring developers have a reason to invest. The problem is, transit dependency is not seen as a problem that needs relocation as the solution. So instead cities waste a lot of money and pollute the planet running huge heavy road destroying transit vehicles on low density low usage streets better served by efficient private light emission vehicles.

[@APJTA]

I've got a few issues with this, but I'll focus specifically on the 55 in Montreal. The 55 is a necessary service. While it's only 600m from the orange line, that's all uphill. Furthermore, it runs through Mile End, and therefore provides very useful service in an area that's geographically close to the metro but physically cut off by train tracks and overpasses. When you get north of the blue line and into the Garment District, there is no alternative to the 55. I'd reduce downtown stops and cut service to the orange line. The most problematic part of the 55 is the downtown portion, between St Jacques and Mont-Royal. Too much traffic on that section of St. Laurent. But cutting everything south of Mont-Royal would mean there would be a transit gap through the Plateau on an uphill. At the very least, even with these cuts, all service north of Mont-Royal does need to be maintained, unless we're gonna tear down the viaducts and re-develop the rail yards.

[@CallMeShuri]

I find Montreal bus lines 410 and 430 to be a magnificent example of the two-line problem. From my location, if I wish to travel downtown, my most reliable option is to take bus 189 or 26, both of which are frequent lines that bring me to the Honoré-Beaugrand terminus, and then do the remainder of the trip on the Metro Green Line. However, further south are express bus lines 410 and 430. These are lower-frequency lines that do the entire length of Notre-Dame Street. The problem is that... those buses get stuck in the same rush-hour traffic as everybody else, and so they take the same amount of time to bring me to my destination. The city improved that street a few years ago with a dedicated bus lane, except... they put the bus lane *everywhere but* where traffic was coming to a standstill, making said bus lane bring very little value. In ideal conditions, the 410 would've brought me downtown in just under 30 minutes. But in practice, with weekday traffic, it takes more than an hour to do so.

[@CoasterCentral305]

In my city, there are two different bus routes that are basically the same, run by two different operators. One a local operator and one the regional operator

[@chloejackson-reynolds444]

One thing also is that the busses that replace the subway can run 24/7 when the subway doesn't. I live in Montreal and sometimes, I've been out later than the last metro train, and these bus routes that would normally be pretty useless have gotten me home when there was no other option. Running a bus every 30 minutes is a lot cheaper than running metro cars so it's a great option when there's not enough demand for a full train but still a desire to take the route the train does

[@chloejackson-reynolds444]

Also another note the 55 bus you mentioned is one I actually take on a semi-frequent basis! I am always on St Laurent in parts that are fairly far away from the metro as they are between stops (because that's where most of the music venues in the city are) and since I go to McGill it often just makes sense to take the sherbrooke bus (or walk) down to st lau then take the 55 up. But also the 55 is so insanely slow, often I find myself just walking as it's literally the exact same speed as the bus gets stuck in traffic so much. What the city needs is a tram route and to get rid of cars on st laurent and st denis as they are two of the most interesting streets for culture

[@politicalhorizon2000]

Not sure in Canada because the metros are newer, but here in Paris we have buses parallel to Metros because most of the metro stations are not ADA or handicapped. Whenever I am using my wheelchair, I usually take the bus because the metros don't have elevators or even escalators.

[@rjzmanz]

So idk about Canada, but I put your idea into the context of my neighborhood in Chicago. The Green Line on the Westside is paralleled by the Route 20 bus, but I find the Route 20 immensely useful still since the gap between the Ashland and California Stations is so huge. The Route 20 here runs at about the same frequency as the Green Line, and it is much easier to get to the bus stop than it is to climb the steps to the 'L'. What's funny about this specific example (and maybe shines a light on US being ass) is that while I'm a few miles away from downtown, if the bus is coming now, but the train is supposed to come in 10 minutes, it's possible to beat the train to Washington/Wabash by taking the bus lol. Might get better once they finish the Damen Station though. Thanks for the video!

[@chungonion]

I think it's still common that even in Hong Kong you have metro down there with at least 1 bus routes that is cover 50% of a metro route. (e.g. KMB 1/2/6, Citybus 2,2A,10, and every routes between Wong Tai Sin/Lam Tin that via Route 7) Even crazier on the Hong Kong Island side you have tram + bus +metro running the same corridor, which I have used each of those before. I do think the issue in the Toronto's network is heavily following the grid, that it goes either horizontally or vertically along the grid rather than having some turns.

[@Pystro]

I feel like there's a calculation/formula somewhere in here that tells you how far apart parallel bus (or transit) lines should be spaced, based on their frequency and travel time difference. The simplest case would be that of the near identical bus lines (especially with near identical travel times), which allows you to ignore speed differences. Then *the best allocation of buses would be to make the walking distance between lines equal to twice the interval between buses* - if my calculus intuition doesn't fail me. (Too lazy to set up the optimization problem and do the derivatives for something that I'm 98% sure of.) But you definitely want all lines to have the same interval (or only ever so slightly different intervals if they have significantly different ridership). I don't know how it would factor in that 10% of the customers walk at half the typical speed, though... Definitely then becomes a question what you want to optimize for: Overall time lost across all customers, worst case time loss for the most snail-paced walker that would still embark on the trip to the station, number of customers, ...?

[@newsjunkie7135]

You're so right. Line 14 could technically get me to my favourite hair salon, but I usually walk there because the bus doesn't come at a convenient time for my appointment.

[@stringedmermaid]

The 126 being the thumbnail when I use it daily is crazy

[@RMTransit]

Brutal bus

[@matthewlee9342]

Yonge-University Line/97 Yonge in Toronto is an Easy one Eventually there will also be Line 5 Running alongside the 32 Eglinton West/34 Eglinton East and Line 6 running alongside the 36 Finch West

[@Struckar6467544]

Love that you used Ljubljana bus shelters as a synonym for waiting. They are very synonymous.

[@mikeydude750]

I don't think I've ever used a bus service that wasn't utterly unreliable and slow.

[@RMTransit]

There are many out there!

[@blowingbubbles5554]

I commute every day on a bus that runs parallel to a rapid transit line. If I took the train, I would ride for two stops and then have to walk for a (1.6km). On the bus, I ride for 17 stops and have a short walk. The higher stop frequency makes the bus a much better option for me. This bus line is extremely popular too throughout the day precisely because it can get you so much closer to your destination than the trains can. I should note that like you said, these services are at the same frequency as the train, which definitely helps their popularity. Because it runs parallel to the train line, it also benefits from all the perpendicular bus services that it has transfer stops with. My point is that parallel bus services play a vital part of a transit system and serve a different function. Also the bus is cheaper than the rapid transit and if you commute every day, that price difference can add up.