When incense makes sense

[@lethauntic]

I misread the title and was like, "woah, Tom, what a title that is"

[@BodyMusicification]

...when you're trying to maintain your royal lineage of course

[@Ziialan]

Keep it in the family intensifies

[@DarleneLesmana]

sammy paul moment

[@mattymerr701]

​@@Ziialanincestifies*

[@Sourcoolness]

None of us would exist without it 🤷‍♀️

[@kriskehrer6410]

6:07 From the Wikipedia article on "Botafumeiro:" "One of the most renowned accidents took place during a visit of Princess Catherine of Aragon. She was on a journey to marry the heir to the English throne in 1499 and stopped by the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela. While it was being swung, the Botafumeiro flew out of the cathedral through the Platerias high window. No one was reported to have been injured on this occasion."

[@rolfs2165]

_on this occasion?_ So what they're saying is, there were other times this happened when the burner hit and possibly maimed people?

[@Dzifii]

so it WAS the fastest

[@bridgettegrogan172]

Wikipedia says so, but without any citations to another source, I don't believe that.

[@timothymclean]

No one was reported to have been injured, but since this was recorded by a court historian, that just means no _aristocrats_ were hurt. Maybe a peasant child got crushed, but why bother writing that down? The peasants have other children.

[@fariesz6786]

"thank you for the hospitality this quaint little town is pro-" _•shattering sounds followed by a loud bang•_ "priest, what the 🦆 was that?"

[@riley6646]

“maybe they should hold anime expos at the cathedral” made me spit out my drink

[@brucegoatly]

The Italian for 'bad air' was 'mala aria', from which the word 'malaria' derives, relating the association of odours with disease.

[@chedatomasz]

I saw it swing from behind the altar! Nowadays the pilgrims don't smell THAT much, but the incense still dominates everything.

[@angee9996]

love how this team plays off each other! I feel like the banter has increased from the previous season and im all here for it

[@manuelomil2140]

Hey, that's my question 😁 really glad to see it was picked for the podcast and clip too. Made my day twice! Answering some questions: Sorry Tom, I never thought it would be an interesting place, every one here knows about it so i guess i never found it that remarkable. Don't really know if there are bigger incense burners, I presume that once you remove the hanging and swinging constraint you have less of a restriction on size. I bet someone has done it. Saw somewhere that is one of the biggest while researching, that's all I can claim. I'll definitely ask the galician government to have Tarzan impersonating priest and for the annual otaku expo to be moved to the cathedral. I love it!

[@lateralcast]

Thanks for your great question!

[@Wezla]

Really wish these podcasts were uploaded as videos...

[@GiraffeFlavored]

RIGHT

[@Epinardscaramel]

“the rope has to be changed every 20 years” “I wonder how they figured that one out” 😆😅

[@solracer66]

You aren’t generally allowed to film the mass but Emilio Estevez managed to convince them to allow him to film the incense burner being swung for the climax of the film The Way (2011) starring his father Martin Sheen. It’s a great film by the way so don’t just skip to the end, watch the entire thing!

[@Queleb1]

Love these clips ❤ Would love full episodes online but the clips are great thank you!

[@PrestonFrankel]

I listen to the full ones on Spotify, didn't realize it would be that easy to find but it was

[@Qermaq]

@@PrestonFrankel Easy to listen. But we'd want to watch.

[@fixed-point]

Going to be hiking the El Camino Santiago pilgrimage trail this spring with my dad!

[@blindleader42]

Camino de Santiago, the most famous pilgrimage in the Western world, and walked (~500 miles) by hundreds of thousands of people, both religious and non religious every year. I suspect a some of the _today's_ pilgrims arrive sporting a "distinctive" fragrance, after walking all day, or even several days, under the Spanish sun.

[@lastnamefirstname8655]

nice huge incense burner swing. will be waiting for tom's future video on this very topic.

[@DerMarkus1982]

Instant Thumb-Up for Tom's first statement! Yes, Tom. Please make a video about this! 😀

[@SamuraiGuy]

2:36 I see William Osman is rubbing off on Tom, and I'm all for it.

[@Qermaq]

2:34 made me sing, to the tune of Johnny Rivers' "Secret Agent Man", "Middle Ages man".

[@freelander]

Dani has the best voice. Just in general. Her voice is just ridiculously nice. Clarity, accent, it's perfect. A huge reason I listen to Escape This Podcast and Solve This Murder!

[@countertony]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXm4lX6spNxnsLM for the thurible/incense burner swing (they start winding it up from 1:25 and it's at full tilt by 2:40 )

[@justmerc1642]

The angelic organ music playing in the background as an 80 kg piece of metal swings back and forth is just perfect

[@ntlespino]

Wow. Just. Wow. This is worth the price of admission hands down 🤯

[@richardfarrer5616]

I wonder what effect incense has on insects? If it drives away fleas, for example, then it could be very beneficial for health when there's plague about.

[@lelandunruh7896]

I've done the last 200km of the Camino de Santiago in the summer. Can confirm that you don't smell great upon reaching the cathedral.

[@seraphina985]

Quite right, there was an era where the dominant belief was that disease was caused by bad air. This effectively translated to bad smell, the beak of those plague doctor masks was filled with aromatic herbs. They genuinely seemed to believe that if you could make the air smell good you would be safe. Granted at that point they had yet to discover benzene for example, it's structurally similar to glucose and triggers many receptors for it including those in your nose. One small difference between them is kinda important though, benzene has a sweet smell but it's only use in your body is making you get sick and possibly die. The vapour smells a lot like freshly baked deserts to my nose, while I was at university had a fume cupboard block up while I was working with it. Even knowing that it is supposed to have a sweet smell it took me probably the better part of 2 minutes to realise what was happening and verify that thought by putting my hand to the extractor. Then again admittedly this could partly be a symptom of inhaling the stuff it is predominantly neurotoxic as such the initial symptoms are mostly those of generalised brain disfunction (Headache, Dizziness, Confusion, etc) of course at higher doses unconsciousness and death. I never got the latter but after realising something didn't feel right and heading outside to get some air and my head started to clear I realised I'd probably have picked up on what should have been blatantly obvious symptoms faster after consuming a litre of vodka. It sends you up wasted street and down incompetent avenue that fast.

[@mattymerr701]

Benzene's back!

[@mels4413]

I came in like an incense piiiile

[@JasperJanssen]

They’re basically through-hikers arriving there, makes sense.

[@saiphrivas1437]

well tbf the Botafumeiro is the biggest incense burner in the world, not just "one of the biggest"

[@Niels_Larsen]

It is actually not. There is a 3m 1t heavy incense burner in Dubai.

[@saiphrivas1437]

@@Niels_Larsen a quick google search shows literally no results for said thurible. There seems to be one that's supposedly twice its size in St Jodokus's church in Germany, but from photos it looks about the same size, just probably heavier

[@Nostson]

And here I was hoping that it'd somehow be the world's biggest foucault pendulum built centuries before that was even a thing.

[@shaunelliott8583]

My mind immediately went to the "world used to be populated by giants" conspiracy theory

[@p_mouse8676]

I am overly sensitive to incense and immediately get massive instant headaches from it. So I am very happy not having to experience this either way, lol! Great questions though, really entertaining to watch!!

[@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug]

0:40 I think a lot of churches had incense burners for religious purposes; I think it's particularly important in the orthodox churches... But I assume the point is why this specific church needed a particularly large burner in the past; so my first hunch if it did serve a practical (secular) purpose; it might have kept insects away (or they assumed it did); maybe the church was built near a swamp with lots of malaria mosquitos? (And it's now no longer useful for that and just a tradition because malaria has been eradicated.)

[@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug]

Also it would be a sensory nightmare for me... I do like the smell of incense, but only when it's very little very far away from me... That burner sounds like an instant asthma attack.

[@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug]

Or maybe it was to keep people from catching the plague or some other disease, and they thought it could keep the plague away... I seem to remember that Santiago de Compostela was a particularly important pilgrimage site for the sick; so maybe they thought dense incense smoke would keep the clergy safe from catching all the illnesses from the pilgrims?

[@laju]

I'm surprised they used euros back then. 🙃

[@AntonHDMI]

this podcast Is so amazing

[@dragonboyjgh]

What my first thought was as one of those time-keeping pendulums that moves with the Earth's rotation.

[@kestasba2903]

For hell sakes, I've seen too much Game of Thrones / House of the Dragon memes... I read the video title as "when incest makes sense" and I was like hold on a second, it cannot be right 😅

[@scbtripwire]

Cleopatra & family beg to differ!

[@LithiumThiefMusic]

These clips are a lot of fun

[@ferretyluv]

So do a video on it, dammit!

[@mojosbigsticks]

I thought it was stop it getting nicked. You can't steal what you can't move.

[@Hamfrags]

I was surprised how straightforward the answer was for this one. Did anyone else immediately make the connection and then second guess themselves for five minutes because it's never that simple?

[@gustavehenry]

Just FWY : people of the middle ages did wash themselves, that's a common misconception. But yeah, during travel it might be harder to do.

[@AnasHart]

I feel like this wasnt really a lateral question, just a general trivia question lol

[@bikergirl2000]

It's an amazing sight. Apparently it takes a lot of practice.

[@mystarmach]

Anyone else pick up on the fact that the church had 'Compost' in the name? Sure, Spanish, but somewhat relevant to the answer!

[@jannetteberends8730]

According to Wikipedia it is the biggest.

[@Sashimi_luv]

Alright I think I’ve seen enough of these I’m ready to subscribe to the podcast. Only took a about ten of these.

[@jamespusey7186]

"it sounded span-ish"

[@y-yyy]

I'm really curious why it takes 8 people to swing? 80kg a heavy, but not THAT heavy

[@scbtripwire]

Before reaching the answer, my initial guess is: to cover up the stench of the unwashed masses (which was everyone, heh). Spoiler edit: *Huzzah!*

[@ulixo1132]

How does Tom does not seem to know where Santiago de Compostela is?!

[@MCYonazz]

I'm a bit surprised, too, but maybe the Camino de Santiago is more known on the continent proper?

[@Inyokus]

In an episode of Two Of These People Are Lying Tom also did not know what the Hagia Sophia is. I'm sensing a pattern here..

[@ulixo1132]

@smeeself Of course. I meant no disrespect, I was just very, very surprised

[@Chickaqee]

the middle ages had that "if I close my eyes you can't see me" during hide and go seek logic

[@erictaylor5462]

4:30 You know who else rode a wrecking ball to break traditions? Miley Cyrus! And she did it naked. She dose a lot of things naked.

[@jblen]

That is a very unflattering william osman in the thumbnail, I didn't even recognise him

[@TomOConnor-BlobOpera]

Oh no, I know the answer for this as soon as it's being asked.

[@spacewarpphotography1667]

"Each performance cost 450 Euros"? They were using Euros in the Middle Ages?

[@g.m.2427]

Where do you think the name 'Malaria' came from people thought the disease literally came from 'bad air'

[@alveolate]

i would've made a joke about stellar composting practices... but yea, not a trend yet in the middle ages i guess.

[@EVLSIX]

I just wanted to say that somehow I found myself binge watching all of the videos here and in my trance and laughter I hadn't been liking each video. Eventually I will, but can't be bothered now... But I assure you I have enjoyed each one!

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

That feels like it's way too straightforward for this show...

[@JRCinca]

This is quite a thing to see!! I saw it for the first time when I was 14. Now it's used like 10 or so times per year, but when I was young in "holy year" (when the 25th of July falls on a Sunday) it was used every sunday. It's free to see it, you just need to attend the mass. Definitively a good topic for one of Tom's videos.

[@texo456]

Not trying to rag on will here, but he does not give ANY clues. He basically just let them talk for 4 minutes, then said "one of these things was correct." No guidance, he didn't even say the person was right when they straight-up said the answer. I dunno, just an observation

[@jean-lucwalker3690]

If Tom still wants to make a video, he could do it about the pilgrimage experience: you can start anywhere in Europe (all the way to Jerusalem) and follow the pilgrim's way to Santiago.

[@Kobrag90]

Medievasl people were pretty clean, tudor+ people started getting the believe that washing brought impious thoughts.

[@bobb.boberson4437]

I'm guessing the Bill's question from the episode is probably not going to be featured as a video because it is relatively niche, so I'm coming here to praise him and Tom; Going a few lines down to avoid spoilers for those who plan on listening. . . . . . . Dude, I'm hella impressed. Those are like SUPER deep cuts on Jewish sabbath law. And y'all were familiar with not only the Shabbat elevators and Eruvs (the wire enclosing an area into 'private/semi-private property' that allows practicing Jews to carry items outside on Shabbat), but how Tom knew what a freaking *Gramah Switch* was (the switch with the random number generator). Like, that switch is a relatively recent invention and hot theological topic that is pretty obscure even in Orthodox Jewish circles (and controversial, because if there is one thing we Jews love to do more than eat, it's argue with each-other over the most minute of theological topics). Yeah, a lot of people who aren't Jewish (and who are!) probably find creating all these loopholes around Shabbat rules silly, but I guess that's why so many of us grow up to become lawyers, lol. Anyways, thank you for including it Bill! Just earlier today I was feeling a bit sad and scared because I had seen some people making antisemetic remarks IRL. It was refreshing to see you and Tom coming at this from a place of intellectual curiosity about Jewish practice and being impressed at the engineering, and how respectful you both were even though the concept is admittedly a bit silly!

[@lateralcast]

We tend to choose the questions that were solved in about 5-6 minutes, and the question read out by Bill was a bit too long to include without leaving out some of the interesting extra detail.

[@bobb.boberson4437]

@@lateralcast That makes sense, it's a pretty complicated topic. Also, wow, an official reply! I'm going to be riding the parasocial high off of this one all week! Thank you Tom and/or Tom's social media manager or producer, for giving me my second big moment of joy today :).

[@Budsport_TV]

The necessity was to get high af! We now know many religions burned psychedelics as incense to have a more spiritual experience and either see gos or become closer to god.

[@Tagraff]

My thought is, it's too much work for one person to do the spreading and cost money for hiring others to do the spreading, so this solution of roping the longest and spread out all at once saves money and people.

[@sophiamarchildon3998]

Initial thoughts: got that one canned. Next

[@Brenosakaguti]

This doesn't seem like a "lateral" thinking question as much as the obvious answer. What else could it be?

[@erictaylor5462]

perhaps it was just incense nonsense.

[@RhynoD2]

I'm having flashbacks to playing Blasphemy...

[@AJpiguy15031415]

Me: * Sees their lack of knowledge about this huge thurible * * Laughs in practicing Catholic already knowing more about it than they do * * Appreciates video for teaching me why it's so huge anyway *

[@stamfordly6463]

None of these people have ever read a Sharpe book - Santiago de Compostela is the cathedral and city in Galicia where Sharpe helps Spanish guerillas raise the flag of Santiago (St James) in the very first book.

[@LymusIll]

Hearing about Santiago de Compostela always reminds me of Diary of a Magus (The Pilgrimage) by Paulo Coelho, it's a good read about self discovery.

[@kriskehrer6410]

Smelly Middle Ages Man is the worst superhero.