When Is Plagiarism Ok? - Art Commentary

Check out Artistree today! - artistree.io/
A big thank you to ‪@fxllxngofficial‬ for helping with audio editing and providing the music!
Lin Lin's Channel: youtube.com/@Lin_Linz_?si=r29...
Lin Lin's Twitter: / lin_linz_
Intro - 00:00
Artistree - 2:54
Part 1: The Laws of The Land - 4:38
Part 2: Blurring The Lines -12:19
Part 3: Drawing The Line - 22:08
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Resources:
Merriam Webster Definitions: www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...
Plagiarism Checker: www.plagiarismchecker.net/dev....
Bee & Puppycat situation: dokinoart/status/...
Glaze Image Cloaking: glaze.cs.uchicago.edu/faq.html
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My Links:
Twitter: ItsFionapollo?t=j...
Tiktok: / fionapollo
Instagram: / fionapollo.yt
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Software:
Clip Studio Paint EX (illustration)
OBS (speedpaint recording)
Audacity (Audio)
Adobe After Effects (Editing)
Adobe Media Encoder (Rendering)

[@Lin_Linz_]

thanks for having me, comrade. was probably the most chill experience in this community I've had all year

[@Fionapollo]

Happy to have ya! And thanks again 🙏

[@cyberprime9355]

Wait, this was the most chill, Linz? Were the ones beforehand firestorms?

[@devinsauls9137]

Lin Lin's here?! 👀 Hi 👋🏿

[@warmachine5835]

You came right at my throat with the, "if you're not just listening to commentary while doing something else." Don't speak to me or my laundry ever again!

[@JordanS-ww4eu]

@@FionapolloI really like you you’re my idol ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@motorcitymangababe]

What bothers me about the idea of fan art being plagiarism is that like... When did we go from having communal stories, meant to be enjoyed via reinterpretations to only one person getting to have a story and eveyone else gets to pay to have access to it? We have been re writing and working stories for generations. King Arthur, Robin hood, journey to the West, Shakespeare - so was the Sword in the Stone, Disneys robin hood, Dragon ball Z, and lionking plagerism? Whats better as a story teller/ artist- to gain money and status as the "owner" or your story being told and retold for generations? Where do we draw that line? Idk, i personally hate the idea of my own art and stories being reduced to a commodity, if i ever get around to finishing a story i dont plan on releasing it for money, and as long as it wasnt offensive i wouldnt really care if my art and story was reused. It means my atory was important enough to them to be absorbed and recreated. Thats actually kind of cool. But at the same time i also understand why that could completely end up screwing over smaller creators and is a personal idea of mine.

[@anubis7457]

King Arthur was a communal legend that has no direct known author. Journey to the West and Shakespear’s works were changed significantly in their derivative works so they don’t violate copyright… and also the authors are LONG dead. I get your point, but as long as we live in a society that requires money to survive in, authors and artists deserve their fair share for their contribution. This doesn’t apply to companies, however, just individuals.

[@motorcitymangababe]

@@anubis7457 I agree entirely, I'm just frustrated with the effect that seems to have as a whole. Capitalism has murdered the idea of a communal storyline and that to me is a genuine loss.

[@corvus_da]

I think it would be a good compromise to end copyright directly after the author's death, instead of 70 years later as is the case now. This is what Lovecraft did, resulting in him spawning an entire genre.

[@motorcitymangababe]

@@corvus_da I agree!

[@corvus_da]

@@mk_gamíng0609 How can an adaptation ruin the source material? The original still exists unchanged. And the purpose of copyright is so that authors can make money off their work. That doesn't really apply when they're dead.

[@georgegonzalez7061]

Comic artist Greg Land would really fit the self plagiarism to a tee.

[@GeebzGBZ]

I was bot expecting Ouran Highschool Host Club fan art in this, kinda made me nostalgic.

[@dioshiba6066]

The issue between fan-art and plagiarism is such a nuanced issue that, I can't rally help but feel jaded. I can't add much to what has already been mentioned in your video and what Kisai_Yuki, kaiserdragon7233 and danielmalinen6337 brought up in the comments particularly. (And yes, I was able to read some of the comments before it became a huge wall of text where I couldn't be arsed to bother reading all of them, but those are the ones that stuck out to me regarding specific copyright laws in respective countries) I can say the following from my experiences and observation: Even in professional animation communities fan-art is actually relatively common and even as a form of study it's encouraged to do so since at that point you're practicing on-model drawing which is an important skill to have if you're doing animation roles professionally. And the other thing is that most animation studios would want to make sure you understand the specific style that they want for a particular project. There is a whole other can of worms that goes into this comment in particular because there tend to be art style trends due to this practice, but for how that relates to fan-art it comes down to your style and how closely it can match the style the producers and show runners want for the said project. (Which is why the bean/cal-arts style is the current trend that isn't going away anytime soon as irritating as that is) Far as my own personal practice, I often do fan art and arguably even in some cases it's actually led me to a few opportunities. Hell even with the pixel art I do it's led me into working a game because the project's director knew I was good at making both backgrounds and characters for that particular subset of digital art. In the end, what should matter is if you're able to deliver with the skills needed in order to do specific parts of the overall project. I enjoyed much of the video and agree with many of the points it brought up. Personally, I look forward to more of your content on a sincere note.

[@unfortunatekitty3400]

The reason why I didn't draw any fan art or even post it online is because I'm scared of getting in legal trouble for just appreciating a series/franchise. The fear is so bad that I just create my own characters on my own in order to improve my art style (with some aspects of my style that are inspired by cartoons made in the 2010s). Thank you for clarifying about what to know before making fan art in your video.

[@CBMOA]

Me too Plus what’s crazy for me is I’m afraid there’s someone who’s gonna take my Ocs (even I’m aware I should let the audience know not to take my Ocs with and or without permission)

[@Kisai_Yuki]

From a Legal POV, ALL Fanart is copyright infringement. That said, how a IP owner treats their fans can shape what the fandom creates. Japanese companies (particularly Nintendo) are extremely protective of certain properties (Pokemon more than Mario and Zelda, funny enough) and Nintendo aggressively goes after unlicensed Pokemon materials (everything from fan artwork to fan games) if there is any, ANY, money being exchanged (such as at a convention.) Japanese companies tend to view western fans with disdain, and will treat a western or Korean fan as a pirate where they will silently ignore the same from Japanese fans. Western companies are extremely litigious, and often view any use of their IP as infringement (which is their right) but do not have the comfy, Japanese-style fandom of drawing fan artwork and selling it at a convention or sticking it on patreon/fanbox. No a western company will shoot first and wait for a high body count before going "oops, maybe that was fair use." Many indie games/animation/comics/vtubers will be fine with fan-produced products because it will put that IP in front of people who may never have known about it. Big companies don't need "free advertising", but small ones do. But the kind of fan-produced content matters. Fan art/music is often very appreciated by indies, even small corporations. However there is a line that should not be crossed, and that's when a fan re-uses the official (artwork/video/audio) and produces another work in the same genre or medium. In the case of webcomics, someone producing a video with the original comic artwork... this substitutes for the original comic. This is why "react streams" for youtube content are often outright copyright infringement because the reaction doesn't add anything, and people are only watching the react stream for the laundered content (which may have come from another video site such as tiktok.) This isn't new, before "react video" was a thing, people would rip content off niconicodouga and newgrounds, screencap it (hence the bandicap watermark) and upload it to youtube. On one hand, that's infringement, on the other hand, that is showing content people would never have seen otherwise. Self-plagiarism is frequently by artists who are "official artists" of an IP, who then use the position in a way they can benefit from unofficially. You mainly see this in people selling copies of their sketchbooks or doing commissions at conventions. Overall it's inconsequential except when the artist promotes themselves as connected to the brand, even when it's no longer the case. Infamously, Hot Topic, is known for ripping off webcomic artists. The proverbial "I found it on the internet". Another very popular example is "This is fine" dog. Google it, you will probably not find the artist's name until half way down a google search (K.C. Green), interspersed between dozens of people selling unlicensed products (the official product is from topatoco.) And yes... Hot topic is selling multiple "this is fine" knock offs. Ultimately, if the goal is to launder one piece of content and present it as your own, regardless of commercial intent, that is plagiarism at worst, and a scam at best.

[@cyberprime9355]

Nevermind the fact that fighting *all* instances of infringement or plagiarism would bankrupt most big businesses six ways to Saturday. It is akin to fighting a Hydra. Save for instances like Nintendo, that is trusted to slap copyright and C&D's on anything that they didn't make (Which is well within their right.) Plus, Striking down Fan works usually brings with it a nasty amount of backlash at worst and signs of disappointment at best. Which results in a sort of "blissful compromise" There is also the notion of fans making said content to entertain themselves in an age of ever evolving technology. If anything, Unlike Nintendo, some companies like SEGA or Hasbro don't strike it down because it takes the burden of advertising off their backs and thus reach a larger audience.....Mostly. I would argue that as long as you not only give proper credit, and try your damnedest to not bite the hand that feeds you the green light, you should be fine. Lastly, there is the matter of telling people "no, this is not ok" and some will push back on this where they can

[@AHylianWarrior]

"Japanese companies (particularly Nintendo) are extremely protective of certain properties (Pokemon more than Mario and Zelda, funny enough) and Nintendo aggressively goes after unlicensed Pokemon materials (everything from fan artwork to fan games)" is extremely wrong and generalising. I say this as someone who knows how many doujinshi there are of Nintendo products available in Japan that Nintendo have personally approved lol They just don't like it when it's porn. They're not extremely protective about fangames either, they ignore most fangames until that fangame is using most of their assets rather than creating their own or could be confused as being an official game (like that Metroid one). Sprite-ripping is demoralising to see no matter if you're a small creator or not.

[@NitwitsWorld]

Nintendo paid shills trying to protect Nintendo by claiming Nintendo hates Americans lol 😅

[@cyberprime9355]

@@AHylianWarrior the porn I could understand hating. But can you verify they are okay with "doujinshi"?

[@cyberprime9355]

@@NitwitsWorld I wouldn't call myself a shill. If anything, I stand by SEGA within reason. Rather, just going by common knowledge about Nintendo's behavior. Granted not every company is like them, but I imagine some follow in their footsteps with such vigor.

[@cyberprime9355]

This is something that I had to wrestle with for a long time.... If anything, I wouldn't say fanart is a form of plagiarism. If anything, it is more of a reflection of your appreciation or even love for something you enjoyed recently or from so long ago. Fancharacters can serve as a reflection of this as well, especially with so many alternate universes, stories, or in my case, an alternate multiverse. While I will agree to dictionary's definition of Plagiarism, I feel there is more to it than simply saying something is stolen. Saying it is stolen and proving it are two separate things that make all the difference. I would go as far as to agree with the idea that fan stories, fan games, and even fanart are hallmarks of a fandom that oozes creativity and ideas that can explored in so many different ways. Another notion that makes me question whether Plagiarism is a possibility is through Intention vs. Impact. To me, this makes na very big difference, as to the dates, the content, the date in which the work was completed or as to who posted it the earliest in a digital form also matter. Tracing, Art --Vandalism-- "Fixing", and to a lesser extent, recoloring, I would consider plagiarism. For such cases, it highlights the notion that they not only did they mooch off of someone else, but feels like they barely even tried. Now, if they were a kid who needed a quick reference in a short timespan and the character they show is an idea of what they are going for , then it is up for discussion as to whether or not they knew better. It is also worth noting that kids' brains arent completely developed when it comes artistry, as constant practice from simple stick figures to full on illustrations is a critical component to being considered an artist. Anything beyond that is to met with scorn and disappointment over the sheer arrogance, laziness or even audacity to vandalize someone's work and call it there own. It's a crime against self-determination as an artist. "Fixing" art is to be met with Disgust and Shame. It is a direct violation of an Artist's ability to make something they can be proud of themselves. They don't ask for some shmuck to vandalize their work. It is one of a few things that make me genuinely angry. Lastly, there is whether or not contractual obligation is in play here. If you signed a DMCA or NDA or anything made by a company that owns the IP, and you went against it...that is text book plagiarism

[@orbatos]

Plagiarism is not, generally speaking, copyright infringement. Jurisdiction, usage and even intent do affect this. This is important because copyright infringement has legal implications and "just" plagiarism does not. Signing a document with rights assignments is a *contract* violation, and much clearer.

[@cyberprime9355]

@@orbatos indeed. Yet, it is *very* difficult to constitute what exactly counts as plagiarism. At most, the best shot you have as finding plagiarism is if it is a program designed to spot plagiarism, or go through the painstaking precious of dissecting it like a frog. Considering there is a lot gray matter when it comes to regional disputes or even the intent, it requires a lot precision akin to that of a scalpel Except in contractual matters, where it is very obvious

[@orbatos]

@@cyberprime9355 This is why it's more important to be clear on what constitutes a legal issue. "Does this constitute copyright infringement", can this be argued to be fraudulent use of content"(which is what copyright infringement is) are the questions that should be asked. Meanwhile what we are seeing instead is community purity testing over artistic/production influence when the actual problems are occasional outliers actually ripping people off or grifting in a more tangible way.

[@cyberprime9355]

@@orbatos I have noticed this myself...the whole purification process is strangling fandoms and ruining communities while the stragglers are slipping away with unlicensed content. Likewise, the only reason some companies aren't shutting down content is because it would be akin to battling Hydra. For every one they stop, another two will take their place while draining resources on litigation where it isn't needed

[@CatboyJosephStalin]

GAHHH I LOVE THE WAY YOU DREW TAMAKI

[@SailorMya]

I remember talking to some people that had booths in artist ally about how to sell fan art and their take away was, you can sell fan art but you have to be very carful and they even explained they had an issue in the past with selling fruits basket fan art even being told to stop. Making things with Chinese zodiac signs (bookmarks, calendar, cups, etc..) and those specific characters was extremally popular so to get around this they created their own zodiac characters to sell instead of fan art from the actual show.

[@GraveyardMaiden]

Depends on context, legality and the IP. For example making a redraw a comic panel in your art style and not monetizing it, typically does not violate any copy right laws, but redrawing an entire comic book, and selling it does.

[@sketchyghost_yt]

Idk why, but I’ve struggled getting to drawing the entire day. Seeing you draw is what got me motivated, thanks

[@kaiserdragon7233]

Personally fans arts such as oc, fanfiction and fan made ideas to music aren't subject to plagiarism, so long aren't copy the original product 1:1 it will fall under fair use and that's a sticky issue. here's the issues, the art style shouldn't be able to be copyrighted since it will put a monopoly on it. So long the artist isnt making a 1:1 of the original ip. It's fair game. To those who brings up Nintendo, Nintendo falls on Japanese copyright law. Not usa so it will be treated differently. Just remember sonic is in same boat but the company just doesn't care about it.... until recently. That being said, All companies know they will fall if the people support it move their business somewhere else. A good example is RWBY, the company decided to still a fanart oc weapon and the fandom was livid. It show on how much they lost on the season. So companies on a thin line with protecting their ip and having the people go against them. Some companies just straight up ignore the fanart. Such as the many cases of nsfw artists. The moment they hit down one. More appear.... tho, unfortunate the toxic mentality affected communities where the author wishes were ignored.

[@JasperHasKenergy]

Wow 17th comment. I’ve been subscribed so long, but always see your videos after a few days beyond posting, I always forget how genuinely underrated you are, you don’t really see it when your not early Keep doing what you do! Your awesome

[@UvieWoosus]

I hated the fine arts department of my high school because they called fanart “plagiarism”.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

Because it is. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[@UvieWoosus]

@@marikothecheetah9342 Blocked

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@UvieWoosus I'm going to jump from the carpet on the floor from the despair.

[@danielmalinen6337]

At the moment, Europe is discussing whether it is a copyright infringement if you remember without author's permission the content of the text or the book you read and are able to learn new words from it. There would be no need to have this discussion if there was no AI, but since AI issue has made it a topic of conversation, now they want to draw a line on what counts as a violation (especially since there will be an "illegal copy" of the text in the gray area in the memories of the AI ​​and the human reader). And while I understand the importance of this discussion in terms of drawing the line, it's still strange.

[@NitwitsWorld]

Copyright already a mess as is. Now we gonna have some European countries sue people for plagiarism. lol 😂

[@Insaniquangrybirds]

I’ll admit, I plagiarized voices before… Now, I look for inspiration for my characters’ voices. As well as everything else.

[@atelierbohemand9826]

Fanart shouldn't even be considered plagiarism. The fact that it is acknowledged and named "fan art" shows that the person making the art is aware its not OC and is not claiming the IP as their own. Any company or body choosing to go after fan artist legally doesn't deserve those fans.

[@Althestone]

I´ve definitely wondered about the legal ramifications surrounding things like fanart, or such, when it comes to people that sell that kind of stuff in cons, especially as someone who lives in a third world country. I have a feeling it's, generally speaking, easier ( not necessarily easy, per se) for people within first-world countries to access the “official” merchandise from their favorite shows, let that be in a physical walk-over-to-store sense, or an economical one, earning in dollars making it easier to spend in dollars, kinda way (also the delivery fee can make things get quite costy). So, I feel like, often, products made by locals, (speaking from my perspective) provide access to a material people wouldn´t have access otherwise, or, at least, in our current globalized digital market, make such access easier. Not saying it´s impossible, but between converting your money to dollars, plus, waiting a while for, let´s say, a marceline shirt and buying some fanart marceline shirt in a con for a price, most likely, much cheaper, it´s no wonder people be choosing the second case. (Thought I do see how that can be true even within first-world countries, especially to people that live within small towns)

[@mk-aka-morgan8386]

THIS IS SUCH A CUTE DRAWING OMG

[@CrabyMan]

Cool vid, I enjoyed the in detail talk about plagiarism and nuances of it😊

[@cameronaustin1831]

Great video that goes through the topic with honest detail, I'm honestly a bit scared because I usually draw fan art

[@chuzzbot]

As soon as you start trying to make money from using someone else's IP, you're a wrong'un.

[@ScorgeTheDemon]

The Winnie the Pooh comment is weird seeing as Disney’s Winnie is in the public domain as of recent

[@sonicfanboy3375]

Disney still owns their version but the book fell into public domain

[@onorebakasama]

Not Disney's version, which wears a shirt. The original book character, which is shirtless, is in the public domain.

[@nekomarulupin]

Yay, Oran Host Club! Also. I love your OC's sponsorship dress.

[@imonly1man_]

I'd love to see you talk about the stigma surrounding going off-model in animation

[@Moon-rose]

Ai is just the worst i joked around and generated something and it was signed 3 times O-O Love ur stuff btw!!!

[@JoeBartolozzisrealmother]

A love your videos😃

[@Catz_idk]

NEW VID!!!

[@holy.diever]

A somewhat well known use of self plagiarism in the art world would likely be when someone does commissions and just retraces their own art to create those commissions for multiple people without clarifying to buyers that its a YCH. This happened with the Lupisvulpes situation, i cant think of any other times it happened but im sure theres more examples somewhere.

[@Crusader-Ramos45]

I did two pieces of Unicorn Warriors Eternal fanart, a sketch of Seng the Cosmic Monk and a digital sketch of Coppernicus. It’s not plagiarism, is it?

[@SuperDeadseagull]

Can you please make a video about Lack Of Criticism in the artists community leading to toxic community., please????

[@spyrogall]

I think I know which con you're referring to in regards to the ban on fan art (if you're thinking locally). I actually kind of like this decision as sometimes cons can get full of flavour of the month fanart, and I really appreciate it when artists sell original prints/showcase their own creative work in the spotlight. The con I think you're referring to allows fanart but only from non mass produced soruces (ie: an original pencil drawing of a character from say, a commission) so it's a good compromise.

[@RWAsur]

Great video though glaze has been proven to be inefficient, its already failing to keep up with the advancement of data scraping.

[@marionettilapsi1]

I was called out for listening to this while drawing... :P

[@lilaniloxi]

i think self plagiarism could be tracing your own art maybe?

[@Nightcore-336]

Nice OHHC fan art

[@fionnaandcakecosplay]

Well, if fanart is plagiarism, I guess all I do is plagiarize (which sucks because I’ve only been drawing Good Omens fanart recently)

[@Hjorth87]

Love the content. Have you followed some of the debate in regards to reaction content. I figure it is similar to this topic, and it could be cool to hear your angle on it :)

[@evelyn785]

I would say self-plagerism in the art world occurs if an artist sells the same commission twice in a way that violates the original agreement

[@Fionapollo]

Oh that's a good one!

[@cometischeese]

9:00 maybe that thing some people do where they decide to redraw something they drew a really long time ago and compare the two? but i don't think the example i just listed is harmful. for example "John Doe" drawing a cat they made up in 2012 and then "John Doe" redrawing the same cat in 2022 for fun

[@glamrockchica909]

I’ve just had to deal with something like this on one my discord servers where I was in a VC where one of the admin called Jaxon had a 3d model of the owner stolen and remade from scratch without permission from Jaxon so we have now thankfully dealt with it so punishment will be given, so I would really like you guys and girls to ask Jaxon on the server first also please do the same with companies please ask first as it will nullify the problem , my character ip and film posters are watermarked after I lear how to do it after I saw you do it more frequently , also what do you think about doing a DTHH video? ❤❤❤ love the new still btw Fiona

[@93i409]

lin lin jumpscare

[@naraku971]

In my experience, technically Fan art is illegal, however certain groups (like the Japanese) are all for fan art, as far as they are concerned, yes the drawing may be of an established character, but as far as they are concerned, that person who drew an established character could become the next Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball Franchise), and it's rather strange as they have to put it the biggest hard on for copyright I've seen ever, and also yet Doujinshi is also a thing in Japan, and some original like erm... Emergence...(Yes, that's a doujin, if people didn't know) but you also have stuff that features a lot of established characters.

[@ghoulchan7525]

doujinshi are printed in very limited quantities and basically if all copies are sold the creator earned back the cost of printing. basically they aren't making a profit.

[@Tazer_Silverscar]

Interesting to compare art to commentary channels, but there's some of those examples that I wouldn't advise anyone even approach doing similar - not because it's copying someone, but because in some cases, it's outright dangerous. I just want to advise people, if they're going down such a rabbit hole (particularly that of predator-hunter investigations, which I know at least two of those people explore in some detail), to be careful. The last thing you'd want is to be involved in the case yourself (commentary on such things has sometimes damaged cases or worse, caused them to become a target).

[@CrimsonStudioz]

you're kinda not right on your winni the pooh example, the story been in the public domain for a while now the character is the one that recently entered the public domain the yellow bear in the red shirt not the story I understand what you tried to talk about though but the better example to this subject is actually oz, where the story itself is in the public domain but the certain imagery from the MGM wizard of oz movie are still copy righted and actually some of the more recent oz books if I drew the short haired blond with gangam dress Dorothy from the novel I wouldn't be infringing on mgm copyright, but if I made my dorothy as close as the Judy garland dorothy then that's a different story

[@psychodoodles]

Wow I’m early 😅

[@skootergirl22]

Disney definitely 😂

[@classicforreal]

There's so much I can chime in on but first and foremost pretty much everything Frederator touched eventually just turned into shit. Screw corporatocricies.

[@MochaMintz]

Hello! I love your videos, but I realized the actual content I clicked on for doesn’t actually start for quite a while. This can damage your watch duration. Please understand I’m just trying to help!

[@HALF_DAY]

Plagiarism isn't okay ever

[@ComradeRagdoll]

I think all Forms of Copyright, Private Property, and Intellectual Property should be Abolished in Favour of more Democratic and Socialistic Alternatives like Collective/Public Ownership, Creative Commons, Etc.