When Self Drops Away (Excerpt)

Adyashanti tells the profound and illuminating story of two consecutive awakenings that he experienced in his early thirties. Excerpted from “The Infinite Shining,” a collection of November 2010 Mount Madonna retreat talks: bit.ly/3tdnDJ5
Quote from this Video: “One of the most common components of not having one’s self be such a big part of your experience is that your appetite for the dreary dramatics of ego just starts to ebb out of you.”
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[@JT-2000]

Been studying Eastern spiritual traditions for sometime, Alan Watts, Ram Dass and various Swami's and Buddhists teachers, but only found out about Adyashanti when his videos started dropping in my home page. Perfect timing too, because I've been experiencing quite a jarring, often uncomfortable awakening experience - true self/false self issues and so on. Ego death basically. Not sudden and immediate but gradual. Can be quite scary, because I am seeing the world - culture, society and so on - as an illusion. Never really understood what that means, but I do now. It's like he is explaining everything my soul is going through right now. .. Divine Synchronicity? ... or just very clever KZbin algorithms?!?! Both/and obviously - non duality of course!

[@adrianw7680]

Stay on the course JT.... that deep letting go of control brings a surprising joy, emerging from nothing, for everything.

[@JT-2000]

@@MichaelDamianPHD wow. That's quite an assumption, Dr. lol

[@HeapOfEmpty]

Thanks for sharing. I've been experiencing the initially terrifying sense of having the ego temporarily vanish in myself and others. These are sanity challenging experiences. Thanks for posting. It really helps to hear others having similar experiences.

[@LaneyandherGermanShepherds]

How are you now 🤷‍♀️

[@ole12345]

He is very clear on deep path / no self. Another teacher I can recommend for this deep stuff is Angelo from the channel "simply always awake" his channel has surface level pointing too but some of the stuff is very specific on non dual / deep realization / no self. These two to me are the clearest on deep path that I stumbled over in the course of my spiritual unfolding.

[@claudelebel49]

Be still and let everything fall into place.

[@owendavies6575]

Hi Adya. Just want to pass on my gratitude and love for all you have done. Your books, talks and simple wisdom are truly the most significant influence and teaching I've encountered in my 56 years. Thank you and know with intention I aim to bring the embodiment of this teaching to all my days bring. May the day find you well my friend!

[@magic7videos595]

What is mind? Doesn't matter! What is matter? Doesn't mind!

[@Yenpao8246]

What I realize about being alone, is that I see Truth as it is, not portrayed. Furthermore, being alone is emptying yourself of yourself and allowing God to fill the void. In being alone, is to se the word as it is, to experience life from the beginning. There is nothing safe, save distrusting the ambition of self. To be is you allow yourself to let go and Love. Allow God to lead and you follow.

[@migipablo6967]

This is so beautiful.Can I requote this?

[@Yenpao8246]

@@migipablo6967 yes, of corse you can.

[@Yenpao8246]

@@migipablo6967 god bless.

[@Yenpao8246]

@@migipablo6967 I have one more for ya: Love is not an outward emotion, but Love Is a selflessness existence!

[@helenormes404]

i am experiencing this... me is here then no me just presence, something is fearful of this presence and yet craves it . i am aware of something dissolving into this presence as it is to heavy and painful to resist now. Without you and presences like you to speak to the me, I am sure this would have been a harsher experience , relaxed me you have. Huge gratitude xxx

[@DanielRamirez-iq3wv]

"Relaxed me you have. The Force I no longer need use."

[@hilkka_nen]

He was also separating “submitting oneself to visions of the collective subconscious” from visualization practices from mature perspective of spirituality, e.g. Tibetan tantra and visualizations of deities. Also Jungian psychotherapy uses the visions of archetypal subconscious, in form of dreams, to see and understand and meet the patterns of your psyche. ❤

[@pamelahall7614]

I wish there had been discussion about the falling away of self isn't a once and done thing. It requires our participation and surrender in every moment.

[@PeterOzanne]

I'm pretty sure he talks about that in some other videos

[@ChidiOable]

I AM that I AM, we are all a fractal of God viewing God from different angles but when we give up our concept of “self” as a separate entity from God then we become one with God and in that process we become one with all things and are all things and then we ourselves become God by in dwelling his wholeness in our spirit and then from there we can co create reality directly with God. The only requirement is to give up the self, to die on the cross and let go of self,. Surrender it and become nothing so that you can become everything. Empty the cup completely so that God can fill it completely

[@flutefun999]

Did you hear what he said? He said there IS no God. It's all NOTHING. You are all alone in the room. (Something I screamed out loud one time after an extremely traumatic experience). Turns out, I was right.

[@ChidiOable]

@@flutefun999 there’s no you and God, there’s just God and his reflection looking back at himself. Have fun

[@flutefun999]

@@ChidiOable Now THAT makes more sense. At least GOD exists, whatever that is. And if I am but a single reflection of that God looking at itself in infinite ways, then so be it. I hope God finds what it is looking for.

[@satoriankh3480]

Thank you very much 🙏🏻 I've had a "I'm nothing and everything blissful" experience at 19yo that totally changed my mind in few minutes and it changed constantly for many years. At 23yo I've had that "there is only being/happening without anybody" experience, but even that lasted few minutes. "I" have 32yo now and "I" am still trapped believing that I am somebody that need to awaken, even if I know it isn't true because nobody exists. There is so much tension in "my" body/mind and it's observed, but isn't always natural to let it be. This video at least comforted my mind 🙏🏻 much Love to you ♥

[@Koort1008]

Try treating yourself and others as dream characters. All of this is a dream including you. All is an appearance that appears to an appearance that appears to appear. Even the experience of the self is part of the dream. If it comes and goes, it is not real. All in all, you’re doing just fine.

[@satoriankh3480]

@@Koort1008 thank you 🙏🏻 I appreciate your answer. "I'm doing it" with ups and downs. Soon or later this game will end 🤞🏻🍀

[@Koort1008]

@@satoriankh3480 You’ll get it in your own way. Remember that you are a dream character. Who you really are is prior to the dream and doesn’t need to wake up. The highs and lows are just the ebb and flow of bliss. Nothing needs to go away. Nothing needs to change. It’s all a dream like the ones you have when you sleep.

[@kimmoyee2453]

I do Wai Lana yoga, beginning workout,also toning workout for relief of body tension.

[@satoriankh3480]

@@kimmoyee2453 thank you for the suggestion 🙏🏻

[@rul4522]

Just love the image of the river. Even now, being 80, looking back, the river still had, also in the past, it’s way! And I was so protected.

[@Maart-je]

Thank you so much! This is very helpful to me 🙏🏻💜

[@adrianw7680]

Thanks Adya, another clip that gives me the confidence that what I'm experiencing is normal and nothing to worry about. Geez..., the ego-mind sure loves to try, worry about, change, control and understand - every stage of this opening/surrendering. These reassurances are precious for this self to find some peace and acceptance during the process. Bless your life's path! :)

[@patrickhaizelive]

😊😊

[@lyndevi]

Love you

[@RaduNeacsu11]

Love you

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

I Love You

[@Jacqueline-lp6kz]

I love you 2

[@ole12345]

Love you!

[@Moe-ww2uk]

Thanks, Adyashanti.

[@chitrapolansky]

when the body/mind space/time/causation complexs drop away the InnerAtman/InnerSelf is realized...you are always the Self..

[@willywagtail4182]

Love this guy!!❤

[@foxdenham]

Thank you Adya... I'm 63 and I've had my 'experiences' but never 'felt' a complete lack of self or a definite shift. My experience (in my body) is one of 'oh so slow' waking up/letting go/realising partiality/knowing that I don't know/partial unity/unsubstantiated hope etc. Yes, it would be nice to feel a greater sense of peace and freedom in the body but hey... who am I to argue with 'what is'. Things will be what they will be. All good regardless.

[@veritas2222]

Thank you. Yesterday I realized that there is no personal God listening to my prayers. I thought I was both dying and going mad, so this talk was more comforting than I can describe in words. 💐✨💖

[@Mika-El-]

The great christian saints and mystics, the sufi teachers, the initiates of rosicrusian order, the qabbalists, gnostics, and many more would disagree and say there is such a merciful tender and personal care between the Source and the divine sparks.

[@sebastian8233]

Hmm yeah.. I had a similar thing where I thought the universe was impersonal for a long time. Later I came to trust that the intelligence behind everything is a being, that does love us in a very personal way. Meditation/prayer feels a lot more intimate this way.

[@DeerheartStudioArts]

A handful of years have passed since I attended a gathering in Colorado with you. I had been to the Yoga centre for a silent retreat with you, listened to many talks you’ve given, etc. Then for some unknown reason I didn’t continue following you. So as with water flowing down a mountain, as the metaphor you employed here, I find myself ( just a convenient conventional word to express) listening on KZbin to this vid that is so synchronistically appropriate to this moment from this perspective. Thank you!

[@michaellacy6047]

When awareness returned to form it was like it was imposing its will,like a downward push,I could literally feel it,like waves washing over me

[@adrianw7680]

Similar with my re-entry from the void. So fun, so cool, and... just another experience to let go of, eh?! :)

[@debbielloyd3511]

Thank you Adyashanti 🐝💚

[@N2MTness]

Thank you. This is what I needed

[@AdamandEve639]

Thank you for this ❤️🙏🏽

[@DrMusicStarr]

Soooo potent 🔥 Thank you 💖

[@anudeeparakkathara5520]

Can’t thank you enough for this adya🙏

[@tanyaknoll818]

That was amazing, thank you.

[@pursuitofspirit]

Beautiful talk. Thank you for sharing

[@tessblog3384]

Awesome

[@kimberlyanndeangelo7584]

Experienced lover and Beloved as one, as a grace, unexpected. Then dissipation of everything of a "me"...utter uncreated peace, stillness, awareness, yet no "self" or "experiencer". Silence lasted for some time...no self, no creature, then sitting on the grass and holding a blade of grass, noticed something was holding something, then gradual return of "person" and this "person" now had much to live out as expression of life here. Understood it as "Do we stay on the mountaintop, or come down from the mountaintop to live the mountaintop in the soil where seeds germinate to blossom into more seeds?"

[@carolunel4721]

Wow, thank you Adyashanti!!! Your words hit me where there is no judgement and questioning.. They just flow into something that just is... And yet, i can say, yes, it all makes sense what you say... 🙏🙏🙏

[@ThriveWithLouise]

i can relate to your story... thank you for sharing

[@richardfireone]

Happened to me also..so amazed still..dumbfounded

[@JatinderSingh-oz1hx]

Well done Adya. I will see you soon.

[@OpentoTruth11]

LOL LOVE THIS TALK!

[@AllenToonzComic]

Nice video, 👍enjoyed it. Thanks for your sharing

[@heleneestelarivas4260]

phew, thank you, Adya, for addressing the memory-stage. I thought I was so lost in having no memory, forgetting everything, not even knowing anything, not remembering anything - noticing it without analysing it. Love to you, gratitude and bliss. Thank you for your teachings.

[@gavinduggan199]

Have you lost your self? If so, who typed your message and felt relieved by the video and recognised that their memory was poor? I’m not being argumentative, I just don’t understand

[@ddaavvee68]

colluding with illusion, number 1, just isn’t any fun. greatest sentence ever spoken!!!

[@manfredknorr3768]

Thank you Adyashanti. What you say, what to say but Thank you! Sukho

[@Larfage]

Absolutely loved this. Brilliant how the session started with a story and ended with an impersonal realization. A thought I had towards the end, not sure if it makes sense. Maybe the enlightened one lives with attention directed totally outward. Maybe that is what it means for the self to totally let it self go

[@e00d20]

Nothing creates something while remaining nothing. Thanks for keeping it post.

[@Koort1008]

Yes. Nothing comes from nothing.

[@cosmofox]

Lot of nonsense. We are not nothing.

[@e00d20]

@@cosmofox what do you mean by "we"

[@cosmofox]

@@e00d20 I mean we who are conscious beings. If you didn't exist you couldn't ask me the question.

[@e00d20]

@@cosmofox are you talking about the self? the self is a concept and nothing else.

[@jodylwallace]

Thank you so much , and really also appreciated the brain change re-wiring information ! So helpful.

[@adrianw7680]

So true! He is a blessing!

[@liviuclipa]

I am in the place where i experienced that, i see it everywhere yet i am still here, that self which holds on and wants that at the same time.

[@zamoraobed]

Adyashanti ,Terrance McKenna , and Candice O'denver have a clear easy of pointing us to being.

[@cosmofox]

Candice is a narcissistic cult leader.

[@jasonwilcox6890]

I am here.

[@gameofthrones5655]

❤jes.

[@TheDNAGroup]

From self-centered, to centered.

[@aurelienyonrac]

"I was not there and that was so amazing" Ego

[@Misslotusification]

Bonjour Aurélien.

[@lazyles875]

I realised this has happened to alot of people self has left.

[@shauryamaheshwari3586]

What does adhyashanti mean by 'self here

[@henkhooghuis1680]

How about the phenomenon of mirror neurons as a possibility of direct transmission?

[@danielhogberg818]

I had a dream, and its now in the middle of the night, but I need to write my thoughts down. The dream had a sort of dreadful feeling, and it probably had a different meaning now that I have pondered what actually is awareness this last month, of what is looking "out" through my eyes. I dreamt of a sky I was looking up at, and then I slowly looked downwards until I was finally at "my own level" and that is when I saw me. Like as if the sky was full of mirrors. There was a feeling I had at that moment that woke me up, it had a profound feeling that is slowly is growing, a feeling of something is impending, inescapable. Now I'm awake trying to write this down, usually dreams like this make much more sense as they happen rather than the day after. Its very possible I'm just confused right now. What my thoughts make sense of this is, what if I, am not looking "out" through my eyes at all? If I'm looking out there must be an in, but I can't see in, I can't turn my eyes on themselves, so what if there is no in? And that's why we can't see in? Usually paradoxes aren't solveable, unlike riddles, and the wisdom of trying to look inside is to realise there is no inside? The inside is the thing that holds everything. so maybe its the outside at the same time? Everything, nothing, is an inversion? The metaphor for what's behind our eyes focuses on the only sense we can invert by pointing at ourself, we can think of what's outside in the world, and what's inside us, our body. But what if that is the illusion? I could think that what I see, and become aware of from my eyes, is not in, but out? Like if awareness is the everything that surrounds everything I can sense, whether it be the sky or "myself" in the mirror? Then the awareness is boundless, endless, and I am viewing the world that lives inside it. And possibly this inside, this inversion of outside/inside is a paradoxical thing to us and that makes it harder to grasp as we cling to inversion of inside and outside. I am inside myself but I also am viewing what is colloquially expressed as outside my body and mind, the arrow of awareness pointing out from my mind to the world, but at the same time, maybe my awareness is outside everything, even me, and it is looking in. And it holds everything. So maybe there truly is no inside or outside, and there is only this. All of what we see, can see feel and everything that happens throughout our lifetime is the mirror passing before our "eyes". The mirror is not a real mirror but it can represent the passing of time and the changing of awareness, if you see a mirror in the sky you might not see yourself, the future is unknown from your perspective, and when it comes to you you start to see yourself through it, until you are gone from it. If we unify inside and outside we talk about everything there is, the two endless things, the continuum of mathematics goes inside, to the decimals, to the details, it goes outside to the endless reaches of space. But the perception of two continuums hinges on the observer being on a point in space, observing what is close up with the same endlessness as that which is far away. So my essential take away from these throughts are, If we try and look at things and try to invert our preconception of inside and outside, maybe we can see a new perspective? And if we see the inversion inside and outside as a mirror in the sky, that maybe its just a facet of life, then there is unity to everything? What if I invert platos cave? Then maybe we not that we are bound in a cave and the real world is outside, but the real world is inside and the outside is the cave? Maybe outside, inside and behind the mirror? And when we try to see behind the mirror our view is inverted back to the same thing we are looking at? So if I am pointing towards my eyes I am pointing at something that is not inside and outside, but something else, or maybe both, or maybe nothing, maybe everything. Its all possible words to describe it if you play with perspection inversion. With mirrors. The horror I felt I think is related not only to the reflection(ah, hah :P) I've had on what I am, the dream also reminds me of an old nightmare I had when I was young and had fevers. There was a terrible sharp light in the center, and I was trying to avoid its gaze, hiding among shards of something sharp and shiny, like glass, mirrors, some burnt some cracked. The light in the center, the terrible white is endlessly large, and also endlessly small. I am afraid of it, it might kill me, that's basically the dream. Its related to the feeling of disturbed sense of size that can occur during fevers, I think its called Alice in Wonderland syndrome. The play on inversion made me feel that again, a swirling vertigo. And that concludes my ramblings, if it does not give wisdom, I at least hope, it gives you, the reader enjoyment. Have a great day.

[@TerryLightfoot]

Go look up Douglas Harding and the Headless Way. Your dream reminds me of his techniques for awakening. There's stuff on KZbin, if you search. It's a little trippy!

[@mimisapphire8329]

This reminds me of 'The Headless Way' by Douglas Harding. A similar perspective on all of this. I personally find the teachings of Candice O'Denver (or Rinpoche) & 'balanced view' helpful. She says it's best not to over think things - her only practice is "short moments many times eventually become continuous".

[@danielhogberg818]

@@TerryLightfoot thank you so much for sharing, I will look it up.

[@danielhogberg818]

@@mimisapphire8329 thank you so much for sharing, I will look into them. The thinking aspect is curious, I have always been inclined to think and "gather" wisdom, but I have become slightly aware that thinking cant always be trusted if my essential goal is peace. But, I still like thinking about these things. Im curious on the extent my thinking actually results in what I think it does.

[@LaneyandherGermanShepherds]

I need a teacher whom I can actually talk to who doesn't need money .

[@matt_garrett_]

😊

[@macnicolson5452]

That is so funny...post original pure seeing moment the first return of thought I experidnced was that every spiritual practise I had undertaken may not have bedn neccessary at all....that I may as well have cleaned toilets as my path ...so long as the essential, the fire for freedom, prevailed.

[@Csio12]

If u like Adya you willl like Anthony de Mello who is very easy to grasp and been an influence on Adya. Also Richard Rohr. If still frustrated try Sean McGrath Secular Christ series.

[@danielhogberg818]

I think I just realised something, which is very simple but was profound for me. I want to share as it might give an aha to someone. Not sure if im actually right, but hear me out. Ive heard the saying, "don't confuse the finger pointing to the moon for the moon." And its all common knowledge and passed around but i have realised what seems like a joke to me. I have tried to understand what the moon is, but what i just realised, is that the finger is the key, seeing the finger for what it is, my ego wanted to reach the truth, but Its as if i skipped over the finger part. I think the finger is the moon, thats what i should look at, what is the finger, what is saying its the truth but is not actually the truth. I have heard most of the truth is about stripping away, but its telling that i saw this phrase as about "the thing over there" i want the moon, the finger i didnt really think about beyond yeah our words are symbolic and not the real thing, but the lesson isnt about what is its about understanding the finger, not searching for the moon. The moon is already there. The mistake that needs to fixed is dont mistake the finger for what is, its so banal and still I realise im missing it over and over.

[@Lizarus.un-sane]

THIS CLIP might be the thing that I’ve been needing… I had tried (or actually everyone else did) to fit my experience into these maps of general collaboration or religious text of HOW these things go.. I ended up confusing a lot of ppl myself taking the majority.. listening to this Well I’d rather not make assumptions but I can only say what happened to me and try to get feedback… I’m one of those extreme trauma leads to spontaneous *whatever (I say “when the thing happened” if I reference it) And I’m limited by the correct words to use to explain as I wasn’t necessarily spiritual before .. But my whole brain reconfigured ..I was presented with me from the outside then layer by layer to the core then back out .. and I had this dilemma of what to do.. and I said “RIP to me” in that moment, it all changed .. suddenly I was sitting there not thinking anything at all… I reached and touched my face as if it wasn’t real… it was all wet… I thought why is it wet??? (I had been crying) next I noticed my breathing had dramatically changed… then I remembered I had been crying and wondered what could be so bad to be sad about… As I tried to contemplate that I realized .. the sadness … it wasn’t there… anywhere.. that’s when the enormity of it hit I jumped up and went across the room.. even my gait was totally different…I ddnt realize until quite awhile later when I passed a mirror and it struck me that I looked different..“I” wasn’t in my eyes anymore… I looked around .. nope.. couldn’t find me Also the idk how to say when I got evicted so did my emotions Well kicked out of my head anyway.. I can access them and everything is felt deeply on a physical level… the rest is lateral, peripheral, not a thing I see through or carry the weight of… So evaluate that?… idk and I’m not so concerned but everyone else definitely IS Feedback?

[@jennifermateyabram8480]

Wonderful! In my 30 years of listening and studying this stuff, sounds like you found the real I. Sounds like Eckhart Tolle and Mooji, how they describe their be awakening, and not really knowing what happened. It took them a while to figure it out.

[@johnsquabbler3112]

Yet the self is perfectly comfortable with deep sleep, and re-imagines immediately upon waking. What is the difference?

[@kevinmai2947]

7:20 like being a baby again 16:50 ego vs self, self dropping away = can’t know the person in mirror is you

[@flutefun999]

Welp, that answered it for me. I didn't come this far just to go into nothingness with no "God." And I don't mean some religious God. But SOMETHING must be running this show and if there isn't and it all means nothing? Well then I'll just stay in this "illusion" thank you very much. I have spent my whole life(ves) looking for REAL Love. If it doesn't exist.... then I can finally stop chasing it, sit down and take a load off. WHEW! Probably written by the ego/self but at least IT pretends to FIND love once in awhile! If that's all I get, then I'll take it. Have fun being nothing floating in nothingness for eternity y'all!

[@BrockLanders]

25:10

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

[@pouri55]

Omg! Sorry bee I have been meditating, I’ve noticed that my memory has diminished. I thought it was my age. But you’re saying it causes memory loss???

[@jennifermateyabram8480]

And periods of, ' I'm losing my mind'? I think it's the process, I've read several advanced teachers say the same.

[@user-cl1xv3vv6v]

Türkçe alt yazı mümkündür inşaallah 🌺🌻🌺

[@-a-l-t-]

story

[@aremat8676]

Self Drops Away = Jeffrey Martin's Stage 4 ?

[@Csio12]

He uses word self when he means ego as he describes the baby. The baby has no ego ie sense of seperatedness lik I am that in the mirror.

[@Teller3448]

Self drops away??? Drops away from what?

[@PeterOzanne]

Maybe it drops away from Now, from Consciousness? If "you" are practicing awareness, meditation, etc, every time "you" notice thoughts, they drop away and there is more presence. And what drops away is the temporary, changeable image of "you" that is sustained by habitual, dualistic thinking. But analysing it is only useful up to a "point"!

[@Teller3448]

@@PeterOzanne How do you know that reality is NOT dualistic?

[@youarewhatyourelookingfor4496]

Great question. Although there have been experiences of no separate self, profound and wonderful indeed, they have been like all things, impermanent. Many teachers including Adya talk about those experiences and say we all often try to recreate them or we think “this is it.” Just as quickly identification with self occurs and it’s as if nothing ever happened. Although I haven’t given up all this seeking crap, mostly because I don’t believe there’s any choice in the matter, I’ve equally given up and am trusting the process. If it is to be it will be, if not, it won’t. The zen lineage I practice with might call this faith mind. It’s all so damn paradoxical right? The obstacle is the path and yet the obstacle is imagined and wasn’t ever “really” there. Who knows 🫠😶 I surrender. I give up. The Buddhist nun I practice with occasionally, she has a wonderful channel here on KZbin, Samaneri Jayasara, said to me in relation to my giving up “good, now the real work can begin.” Meh. I just ask for direction and guidance from source asking that none come to harm by or through “me.” Not by body, thought or action. I pray the St Francis Prayer everyday for the last 9 years of my sobriety in 12 step recovery and then I just hope for the best. Lol. I watch my mouth and my behavior and just try not to harm living beings. I don’t want to first of all and it just doesn’t feel good when I do so it’s relatively easy not to be an asshole ya know? Good luck too you fellow seeker. May we all find what we are looking for. Apparently what we are looking for is what’s looking and what we are looking for is reportedly looking for us so we are in good hands.

[@Teller3448]

@@youarewhatyourelookingfor4496 If you are singing in a choir its not correct to say...'we are all ONE'. Nor is it correct to say...'there is no me...only the music exists'. But it may be correct to say...'my individual voice is in harmony with many other voices'. This is the confusion inherent in Buddhism. Never give up...aspiration is the driving wheel behind all realization. Never trust anyone who doesnt value aspiration above all things.

[@youarewhatyourelookingfor4496]

@@Teller3448 thanks btw.

[@bequietkitty]

Swallow sounds in this are irritating

[@macnicolson5452]

That is funny....one of the firts thoughts to come to my mind after this experience was also a toilet thing ......my spiritual 'parctise' could just as easily have been cleaning toilets.....if the fire from freedom had been the same.....I still don't understand how people delude themselves that a particular practise is the way ......all that is needed is the fire in whatever form it chooses you

[@pankajsinha6102]

Eh! I knew there r Gems like u in the west who r trying to herald a new era in this word ,especially the people of west who r open n very brilliant.