When Spears are NOT the best old weapons

[@meric2]

The collar on the jacket really brings together the whole "Biker Nosferatu" look

[@bavarianbohemian6774]

That caught me way too off guard

[@justanotherdayinthelife9841]

V:TM

[@plot6520]

Oof. Ain't gonna be able to pull that stake out of his heart :(

[@REALdavidmiscarriage]

haha that was cold af haha im ded

[@jkdwarrior3]

I've been laughing at this for 2 mins

[@frogappreciator]

When defending yourself in a telephonebooth against a swarm of angry bees a spear is not optimal.

[@spyrofrost9158]

Its not? Shit, send help!

[@frogappreciator]

@@spyrofrost9158 Try this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKWWmGiDq9WWoqc

[@benjaminholcomb9478]

@@frogappreciator thank you for enlightening the community and providing critical safety information.

[@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse]

Them foreign Bees can get as big as your hand.

[@APV878]

Dammit. Well, that explains some things....

[@therealkillerb7643]

I really like his authentic, leather armor... have seen that many times in films; though I am surprised that he bought one with a zipper as that seems anachronistic... ;-)

[@weefatpie]

Here’s the jacket if anyone is wondering, I have the same one www.superdry.com/products?product_id=3963892&source=googleshopping&locale=en-GB&nst=0&gclid=CjwKCAiAudD_BRBXEiwAudakX103NaMNy3EAyd4vM0SEe2hXuEwU2b-MvSYTr7VEre9Wz-MrrBaxNhoCPeEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[@ecthelionalfa]

mad max but this time got medieval weapons

[@Vasharan]

@@ecthelionalfa Mad Matt: Feudal Road

[@Intranetusa]

Ah, the historical Hollywood Mad Max Biker leather armor.

[@RobertWF42]

Only needs metal studs to be authentic medieval movie armor. :-)

[@timothyissler3815]

Me: *enjoying Matt talking about when spears are not optimal* The Comments: *Matt's leather jacket*

[@AtheistAnarchoCommie]

You mean his leather armor?

[@tommyteapot13]

As interesting as this topic is, I couldn't help but notice how well that jacket suits you

[@krieger1969]

he looks like a roadman lol

[@DemetriosLevi]

Was gonna say...looking extra crispy

[@CannaCJ]

I was distracted initially by speculation around what sort of motorbike he rides. I’ve decided it’s a cafe racer with some bosozoku styling and a Super Dry decal.

[@karllambert2350]

Well it is the year of the roadwarrior

[@elmikeomysterio5496]

That is, in fact, a killer jacket.

[@wildtony79]

That leather jacket says “I know Mad Max is set in 2021”.

[@eggmynog]

Underrated comment for sure.

[@silverjohn6037]

My experience in Canada is that most old growth wild woods have a relatively narrow band (20 meters at most) of heavy brush near the edge where sunlight can reach and support smaller bushes and younger trees. Once you get into the full canopy forest there might not even be grass let alone brush and there can be gaps of several meters with nothing but tree roots and moss because the larger trees are keeping any light from reaching the ground. In areas were old growth isn't possible, mainly the prairie provinces and in the tundra areas of the Canadian Shield, where the conditions are too dry or the soil too thin over the bedrock to support the root systems for large trees you can get tangles that would make a European hedge row look sparse by comparison and can run for several kilometers. I'd be interested in hearing what people with experience with the proverbial triple canopy forest in more tropical areas have to say on the subject.

[@conribarnes1373]

I’ve seen the same in the US, very dense woods. Unless you’re following a trail (human or animal), you wouldn’t be able to even walk. I’ve never seen anything that resembles managed woods. That sort of place would be owned by private logging companies. And it would only be a fraction of the woodland we have over here.

[@bubsnicket]

I spent a little bit of time training in jungle environments and I would describe the combat environment as a 'more extreme' version of what you see in Europe. The primary jungle is sparse even compared to a mature unmanaged European forest and you can usually see about 100m. The secondary jungle is more dense, almost like patches of rhodedendrons in the UK, but with more thorns and nasty biting insects. Of course many jungles are also hilly as hell, almost like an alpine environment.

[@scooterdogg7580]

Eastern Canada it's heavy brush

[@dmytroy]

I have hiked quite a bit in mountainous areas in Japan with unmanaged forests. Conditions are quite different as land is unstable due to massive amount precipitation that falls and steep slopes, lots of places you need to use your hands to scramble up and down. I also been through some areas where smaller Sengoku battles were fought, like near border of Nagano and Gifu(Hirayu area). I have no idea how they managed to move large bodies of troops there. Normal trade was by foot and donkeys and they had to rebuild parts of the trails basically every season as parts would get taken out by landslides

[@python27au]

@@conribarnes1373 . Ah but you forget that the US is only a few hundred years old and a lot bigger than Britain. The British and their forbears have had thousands of years to turn forest into fields and back. I’m amazed that there is any wild forest left in the country.

[@ihavenomouthandimusttype9729]

1:45 SG: There was almost a... Me: An arms race? SG: ...a developmental contest Me: ...that took me to interesting places...

[@dillonvandergriff4124]

"Woods" is a very broad term. As I've seen others in the comments mention this can vary from wide open high quality timber woods to almost impenetrable coppiced woodlots. I think while your point is valid and valuable we must be careful to assess each "woods" individually :)

[@nutyyyy]

It is worth pointing out Matt that likely even more woodland would have been managed in the medieval period since the woods were extensions of the farmland. At least in some areas.

[@kallisto9166]

Yeah. Medieval woodland was managed woodland. It was just managed differently, with coppicing for wood, charcoal and game. That creates lots of dense thickets. Open areas too, but a patchwork of passable and non-passable scrub that would indeed be a problem to fight in. Of course, if you're local and know the specific wood well, it's easy too see how this could be turned to your advantage.

[@janibeg3247]

mature, climax forests have very little amounts of underbrush unless near streams or ponds.

[@johntipper29]

Good point. Check out "The Time Travellers Guide to Medieval England" by Ian Mortimer for an interesting read.

[@kallisto9166]

@@janibeg3247 Yes, but many forests were managed precisely to avoid that condition. If managed for large scale lumber, probably the forest would be as you describe. But if it's being managed for charcoal burning, say, or smaller timber, not so much. Not all forests were coppiced but many were. That kind of management produces patches of super dense scrub, often thorny, that is difficult, if not impossible to pas through.

[@Jonsson474]

I don’t fully agree about the claim that modern woods are less brushy and harder to access. When trees grow tall and old they shade much of the undergrowth, making it harder for younger plants to establish. So in very old forests, there is less undergrowth. In young forest on the other hand, it’s still a competition between different plants for spot to establish. So younger forests are often harder to access. I own a bit of land where I have primeval forest, never felled, some 50-100 year old forest and some 20 year old forest. The latter two are far less accessible. I do however assume it may differ depending on where in Europe the forest is located. I also want to point out that further back in time, you maintained your forests differently than today. Nowadays you mostly clear cut the woods, making it possible for a multitude of bushes and trees to establish, even if you plant new trees. A couple of hundred years ago and going back to Roman age, you usually only felled the largest trees and thinned the forests in order for the best trees to get space to grow tall. This created areas with sparse forest, much like today’s planted forests. But there were of course a lot more untouched forest as well. I do however agree with that shafted weapons would now have been very useful in any forest when the a battle turned into melee.

[@Kim-the-Dane-1952]

To quote Daffy Duck; "it's a quarter staff... actually it is a buck and a quarter staff, but I am not telling him that"

[@chrisclark9209]

"Ho! Ha ha! Dodge! Turn! Parry! Spin! Thrust!

[@Kim-the-Dane-1952]

@@chrisclark9209 Nice to know i am not the only loonie :-)

[@mpetersen6]

@@Kim-the-Dane-1952 Everytime I see something really stupid I say to myself, "what a maroon".

[@TheCoffeehound]

Ah, yes. Ancient god of frustration.

[@chrisclark9209]

@@TheCoffeehound Garibaldi is glad you remembered this.

[@Vasharan]

Stephen: "Your choice of weapon, sir. Pistol? Or sword?" Hugh: "Um... I suppose I'll pick the sword." Stephen: "Very well, then I shall get the pistol."

[@1IGG]

Great bit.

[@Vasharan]

@@1IGG It was a soupy twist.

[@assumjongkey1383]

Context

[@gusty9053]

Source ? or "sauce" as the weaboos say ? :))

[@inncubus666]

@@gusty9053 A Bit of Fry and Laurie. /watch?v=sDsn-RRmDXU&ab_channel=jhh302

[@michaelm3691]

I too find it troublesome to penetrate tight spaces with a longer weapon.

[@pattheplanter]

Better shorten it, then.

[@assumjongkey1383]

Context

[@gotzvonunentberlichingen1452]

Deep Penetration kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHrQhoWsp9CFlc0

[@AdamQII]

Interesting fact is that important emphasis on archery in Classical and Hellenistic Crete. Kretan archers were deployed for wars over mediterranean as mercenaries. Plato in his accounts mentiones mounted archers which we do not see on depictions except those few in scythian armour.

[@Tumasch]

"George, there's that weird man with the stick in the woods again."

[@FranzPerez21]

"Developmental contest" between cavalry and spears eh? Maybe even a "race of arms" or something?

[@assumjongkey1383]

Context

[@assumjongkey1383]

Context

[@benholroyd5221]

Weapon competition? Martial Gymkhana? If only there was a catchy term.

[@Oldskoolbloke]

Short thrusting spears like the African Assagai are something that you need to consider also.

[@MrMudslap]

I googled "Assage" doesn't seem to be a thing, is it spelled differently?

[@Oldskoolbloke]

@@MrMudslap try Assegai - Mr poor spelling 😃

[@MrMudslap]

@@Oldskoolbloke boom there we go, cool.

[@SageofCancer]

Spearmen and cavalry both have it rough in the woods. They have it even rougher if they actually have to fight each other in the woods. Good luck.

[@WildBillCox13]

Liked and shared. Three of the guys I shared this with run a sword school in Pittsburgh. They have open minds about weapons, however, and work out with several.

[@assumjongkey1383]

Context

[@carloparisi9945]

I add that poles move branches and tell everybody where you are.

[@assumjongkey1383]

Context

[@zsDUGGZ]

Context

[@carloparisi9945]

I'm saying long objects like poles, in the thick bush get in the way, move tree branches and that gives away your position.

[@assumjongkey1383]

@@carloparisi9945 who are saying this to????to me ?!??!?!

[@carloparisi9945]

@@assumjongkey1383 I added the context maybe was missing in my first post.

[@BCSchmerker]

+scholagladiatoria *I concur on matching the arm to the tactical ground.* Musasi promoted the sword as an all-round arm, as it was usable in all but the tightest spaces and more manoeuverable than polearms. The staff was a common tool for hauling loads that could double as a blunt-force weapon, but indoor spaces constrained the staff even worse than forests.

[@bofoenss8393]

Very good video. It actually reminds me of the Battle of Waterloo, where Wellington lined up his army in front of a forest. Bonaparte believed he was making a mistake since it was a traditional tactical error as armies and units even in that period usually couldn't move through wooded areas without losing cohesion. But Wellington had seen that forest a year before and noted that it was a cultivated forest with space between the trees. Cultivated forests even 200 years ago were that rare for a General to make mental notes of it.

[@paavobergmann4920]

Interesting. I once (!) tried battle reenactment with a pole arms unit, and the first thing I learned is that group cohesion is probably the most important thing the unit has to maintain. One guy falls out of line by 1 step, and the whole unit is toast in seconds. So, I see that not working in a forest, swordsmen that you normally would easily hold at bay will wipe the floor with you in no time. Yup. It also emphasizes how brilliant Henry´s battle plan at Agincourt really was, where he placed the archers at the sides close to the woods and had dismounted men at arms secure the foret edge. So he presumably knew.

[@keithallardice6139]

Always interesting to hear the pros and cons of a weapon as presented by your good self, Matt, your even-handed and thoughtful analysis is much appreciated.

[@Psiberzerker]

Just to clarify, Boarding Pikes were not Pike Length. They were spear length, or about 8' (2.5m) Long.

[@scholagladiatoria]

I've handled quite a few originals - they vary in length, but yes they are average spear length in general.

[@Psiberzerker]

@@scholagladiatoria Well, there were a lot of originals.

[@thesmallestminorityisthein4045]

The humble spear stands aside as the flashy sword gets photographed and takes the credit, for the spear need not to go sleep remembering his fame and fortune. No, the spear sleeps soundly know that even though it may only be remembered today by so few, it was cherished by so many in days gone by. It doesnt mind who gets labeled as the hero of old, for it know who the real hero was.

[@Poohze01]

Thank you for remembering the Welsh! If I remember correctly, Giraldus Cambrensis talks about the lightly-armed Irish fortifying the edges of forests by pleaching the foliage, to defend against the Normans.

[@crazylegoman]

I grew up with lots of woods nearby my house, and I loved to go walking in them. I always carried a staff of some sort. Certain times of year, spiders would make webs EVERYWHERE. I would hold my staff straight in front of me and twirl it in a circular motion (in a basic 3D cone) to knock down any spiderwebs in the way. It worked, and I never felt like I was encumbered by it.

[@danorris5235]

I literally live in the woods. Can confirm: There are many areas where you cannot traverse without getting into heavy foliage, and even having a carbine rifle can get obnoxious. I can't imagine trying to get through there quietly with a spear, let alone actually have to fight with one.

[@easttennesseeexpat7545]

I am only familiar with forests in the Eastern US. Most forests, which may be 80 to 120 years old, are relatively open ground. But there is a very beautiful scourge in some places, called the rhododendron thicket. These shrubs may grow 15 feet high and have branches as thick as a man's forearm. I saw a female bear tear through such a place as if it were tissue paper. But if a man gets in it, he may have trouble getting out. In one instance, I did get in. It took about 3 hours to travel half a mile and twice, my "pole arm" (a 5 foot rake handle converted to walking stick) got stuck in the branches and struck me in the throat. It appeared the only way to get out alive that day would be to climb the sandstone mountain on my left, so I could walk down the open terrain on its ridge. This was another adventure. The slope was about 80 degrees, so I was scrambling up on my belly. The forest service had recently done a controlled burn in the area, so everything that I took hold of crumbled in my hand. When I finally got to the top, I knelt and gave thanks to God and supposed I was the first human since Hernando DeSoto to see this spot! Of course this was not true. A brief look around revealed rubbish from the 1960s. So yes, the point of this video is very well taken. A long stick in a thick tangle is a troublesome thing.

[@Chillton]

Playing Conan Exiles to swing sword arouns like in the movie- end up using spears, javelins and pikes as they are just massively advantageus. That game does polearms right, damn, that reach!

[@tieshianna8833]

I don't know an example from history, however I noticed while Larping, that woods really tend to disorganize you. We have been in really dense forest at several occasions, and we almost never where able to uphold any kind of formation. 2 people fighting back to back is the best we got.

[@rileyernst9086]

As someone who lives in a tropical rainforested area I can say that navigating through it with a halberd/poleaxe/billhook would be a f@cking nightmare.

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

There are a few times spears were avoided: 1. Officers: Renaissance officers rarely bothered with polearms, because they weren't supposed to fight in formation, and moving through a formation with a two-handed weapon could cause problems. Some wouldn't even have a weapon in hand at all, using something like a baton instead, but they would always have a sword, at least. I suspect this was true even long before this point, but this is where we get plates as proof. 2. Mounted infantry: this was more common before the High middle ages, but many mounted soldiers actually fought on foot, acting as a mobile reserve or flank. Being less numerous as a matter of fact, they needed to be able to remount quickly, and could easily fumble if using a big weapon in this capacity (or perhaps simply had no room for one, using bows or javalins instead,) so usually opted for a sword for melee instead.

[@equesdeventusoccasus]

When shorter weapons & spears intersect, I always think about the *iklwa.* This being Zulu short spear, introduced by Shaka (possibly invented by him as well). Its adoption was part of a major shift in Zulu battle strategy, using the traditional assegai for throwing at distant enemies then switching to the iklwa and a shield for close quarters combat.

[@cliffclark2285]

I fully agree that long weapons are more difficult to use in woodlands, though there would be times when fighting with long weapons in a forest would not be as much of a hindrance as one might think because of there being far less undergrowth in some woodlands in the past compared to modern times. In woodlands with a high density of wildlife or if they were close to farmland where farmers would let their livestock loose in the forest to feed on the undergrowth, forests would be far easier to navigate through. I remember touring through the historic Gettysburg battleground where there were several locations where the battle took place in woodlands, and while today there is so much undergrowth in those woodlands that you can hardly walk off of the trail, but when the battle of Gettysburg took place there was almost no undergrowth because livestock were constantly let loose in the woodlands to eat everything they could reach, so the soldiers fighting there had enough space to make bayonet charges though the woods

[@EliotChildress]

I always watch your napoleonic sword videos but these are the ones I love. Thank you.

[@gregoryfox9286]

When you're riding your bike playing knights, you end up arse over tit. Been there done that when I was 11 lol.

[@JayM409]

That's the secondary use for Hockey equipment.

[@assumjongkey1383]

Context

[@acem82]

Absolutely correct about long weapons in the woods. I hunt grouse in N. America, and they live in 5 to 15 year old aspen trees. Those trees grow like hair on a dog. Everyone wants a long barreled shotgun (30 inches or so) for upland bird hunting, but I want a barrel under 24 inches. There have been many, many times when a bird gets up and it's simply impossible to point the shotgun at the bird because you're trying to push too many trees over. There are times walking through the young trees where you have to hold the shotgun almost vertically in front of yourself just to get it through! The usual strategy is to simply avoid walking through the woods and stick purely to the trails running through it.

[@hatuletoh]

"Sometimes a big pole is a hindrance in the bush." This channel isn't just the ultimate destination for the minutiae of historical weapons, it's also the premier channel for sophomoric double-entendre.

[@ArmchairFundamentals]

Just another quick history tidbit in regards to WW1 trenches and why they had that zigzag form. You are right about the shrapnel however another important factor was that it obstructed the point of aim for enemies if they were to overrun the trenches

[@hrodvitnir6725]

In Swedish history the period of the rebbelion against the Kalmar Union (late 15th early 16th century) the woods played a big part of the warfare since the Swedes mainly relied on pesant-solders who had a hard time compete with the Danish hierd German mercinaries in the open field. So what they usually did was to lure the Danish into areas where the polearms where less effective and forced the fighting to be less "organised". Theres some battles from this period that starts as a danish victory but ends horribly just because they chased the swedish pesant-soldiers into the wood where they were able to turn the tide.

[@cedricschmidtke4287]

there are 3 weapons that were used around the world for extensive periods, missle weapons, spears and anything combined with a shield

[@WhatIfBrigade]

In our US Civil War history class my excellent teacher (a military officer) said that the Eastern coastal forests were basically a rain forest in Spring & Summer. He said that hatchets & Bowie knives were often carried by troops as a back up weapon. And that many volunteer units purchased/obtained revolvers and the shorter Henry rifle.

[@eganengelhardt3078]

Those of us who live in the backwoods of middle Tennessee USA, know what it's like to walk through an uncut untamed forest/swap/jungle. The foliage is so thick and dance down here it's hard to see three feet into the woodline.

[@blastulae]

The Macedonian pike (sarissa) was carried in two halves, then united for battle. The two shafts were about nine feet long. Its sharp, leaf-shaped iron blade was about 20 inches long and the bronze butt spike shorter. A long dory, the hoplite spear, would have been about the same length as one of the two sarissa halves, but many were only two meters.

[@Baiyu83]

That reminded me about military sapper shovels. Maybe sometimes make a video about effective improvised weapons throughout history? As for a battle, the one that immediately comes to mind, of course, is the battle at Teutoburg forest. But Romans haven't been using long spears, so maybe that's not what you were asking for. Anyways - thanks, Matt, for the great content!

[@samuelpope7798]

Experimental archaeology (also called experiment archaeology and experiential archaeology) is a field of study which attempts to generate and test archaeological hypotheses, usually by replicating or approximating the feasibility of ancient cultures performing various tasks or feats. This is an excellent example of the kind of insights into the likely use and limitations of ancient weapons that actually trying to use them can provide.

[@slaanax9119]

Imagine something like a Halberd in the woods. All those extra bits would just be getting caught up in everything.

[@-Zevin-]

"Allot of you you who have been walking in the woods, have actually been walking in a managed wood farm" I always take for granted the forests out here in the United States. Out here in Rural Michigan we have seemingly endless miles of wild woods. Allot of it isn't older than 100 years since there was massive deforestation in the late 1800s but most of it is unmanaged natural forest.

[@mjsuarez79]

This relates well with my most recent fixation: The trench gun. A shot gun is a relatively short long-gun. even with the M9 bayonet attached, doesn't exceed 45". My daily exercise, as of late, alternates between bayonet drills - which you video helped with, by the way - and an escrima drill that I adapted to the messer. Part of the point of the exercise is what weapons have utility in a confined space like the apartment that I live in.

[@eoagr1780]

Thanks, this video gave me some ideas for a table game

[@thomashyle6098]

A/ inside (which is why mata tombaks now have those little 'house' handles often deceptively called 'display' handles)

[@samchafin4623]

It's a modern example, but the popularity of the Thompson submachine gun (first developed as a trench sweeper) in jungle theaters from Haiti and the Philippines to Belgian Congo reflects a preference for a shorter weapon in a wooded environment. Tangentially, speaking of pole weapons, I remember a book I checked out from the library as a school boy which had examples of American Civil War era pole weapons.

[@lorrainestone1045]

the eastern woodlands of the United States, and great lakes region, tended t be dominated by short(ish) bows and tomahawks, or various types of club, and knife. lots of grappling and such. makes perfect sense given the forested terrain. thanks Matt for yet another cool vid.

[@Nerdanel]

The character of the woods is going to be a factor in how traversable it is. Where I live it is fairly dry, the soil is very poor and rocky, and the forests are pine-dominated. Even woods that have never been managed have widely-spaced trees and only scattered clumps of underbrush. Around here a pike would likely still be a liability, but a pole weapon of more moderate length would be no trouble at all.

[@shadowphoenix8962]

The southern Chinese butterfly knives (short swords ) were intended for use in the crowded cities,like hongkong,macaow.sometimes called mother and son swords.

[@blakewinter1657]

To be honest, my first thought was forest! But then, I grew up in a very dense forest, and yes, just moving without any weapons or equipment at all can be quite a challenge. A long weapon, even if it is not particularly bulky or heavy, would be very hard to use, except in the clearer areas.

[@ArcanisUrriah]

He spoke ill of the spear. HERESY!

[@tedhodge4830]

Worth noting that Europe was primarily agrarian landscape; note how the landscape of Ireland changed after it was largely developed by the Normans. In settled areas, it would be much more likely to experience a flat landscape with wide clearings for pitched battles. Perhaps that's why the Romans favored the Gladius over the pike or spear in their early conquests of central Europe. Back in 100 BC to 100 AD it must have been remarkable the density of forests in Europe, best example being the infamous Battle of Teutoburg Forest in which the legionaries were ambushed from the woods. We sometimes forget this. Excellent observation.

[@itsapittie]

I grew up in an area of the central United States where the native forests are called "crosstimbers" which should give you some idea of their composition. It's very difficult to simply walk through parts of it and typically we followed the trails made by wildlife and livestock. TBH I never really thought of it in a warfare context before, but it would be an absolute nightmare to try to wield a polearm in that mess. Even a slung rifle snags on things constantly.

[@tehnemesis325guy]

US troops in south east Asia replaced their standard bayonets with something reminiscent of a kukri or machete. It was useful for chopping away jungle growth, and made for a useful melee weapon either on or off the rifle, more so than a long thrusting edge anyway.

[@bolieve603]

I like the "debunking myself" series! Keep it up! :D

[@thanebridges6776]

I would like to pose that besides the spear the shield is the most important weapon system ever created. thank you for all the information over the years and the attention given to the humble spear.

[@Varinr]

Matt you are the best teacher I’ve ever had. You’re channel is the bomb! Greetings from South Carolina!

[@elzian4975]

Hey, I recently heard some quite a different picture from historians about medieval forest than what you talk about at 6:00 That in fact, forests were also used as "woodfarms" in the middle ages, and that they were quite intensively managed and used by them, to the point that at it's lowest point, the percentage of forested area of the HRE was about half of that of modern germany today. So, it was not like the forest was some kind of "untouched place" Now, they were focused on the HRE, so maybe it was different elsewhere? But I would like to hear your thoughts.

[@Bob_Lennart]

Even if Matt's idea about medieval forests being unmanaged is not entirely accurate, his point still applies. I've done some re-enactment battle in modern managed forest and it really is quite tricky. Trees get in the way of weapons and movement and it's easy to stumble on stuff on the ground.

[@mnk9073]

*Sees picture of the bad war *clicks immediately *waits patiently for the follow up video about the Katzbalger Edit: Didn't the shorter English bills and halberds beat the long Scottish pikes very decisively at Flodden (among other factors)?

[@arthas640]

I suspect that was because the pike is primarily a pokey weapon while a bill hook can be used better as both a pokey and choppy weapon. Also, with the scots their pike was mainly meant to protect the scots from the superior English cavalry since the scots usually used swords and gusn against infantry (if i remember the documentary i watched drunkely at 1am)

[@something-somethingdarksid9498]

Some armies will also deploy with their backs to woods to defend against cavalry charges from the front. This way if the cavalry attack the lines they cannot charge through effectively.

[@brittakriep2938]

But also horsemen with lances had problems in forrests. Before 1914, a german cavallry officer noted accidents , when his unit rode through a forrest in training.

[@waderutherford9083]

While polearms might have issues in SE Asia due to heavy forestation the Vietnamese were known for the quality of their halberd and were even sometimes called by the Chinese a word meaning halberd

[@NMahon]

Another place a spear isnt the best weapon is if you need to get on any sort of a boat! When the irish were big into raiding roman britain they stopped carrying javelins when they'd go raiding across the sea in their currachs, they just weren't very manouverable if you need to move quickly, I'd imagine they'd also take up too much room on a boat that size so something small like a short sword would be more practical. Also using long spears I don't believe was widespread in Ireland which is interesting because it was a heavily forested place where the rivers were used to navigate the terrain. Big spears and formations just don't have a place in that terrain, and for what their combat aims were which weren't big pitches battles but quick raids and skirmishes.

[@jimbenson3926]

I remember seeing a Lindybeidge video on how medieval woods where well used and maintained.

[@karllambert2350]

Excellent video , Roman soldiers had a hell of a time with Germania tribes for the very reason . Roman group tactics were great in open field but in forests where the native tribes lived could not deal with the natives inherent 1v1 close combat experience.

[@randalthor741]

The woods I go walking through occasionally are definitely not managed woodlands, because I live in an area that's practically surrounded by old growth virgin rainforest... But these woods are in the Pacific Northwest of North America, and are nothing like the woods of Europe, because they're the only significant coniferous forests left on the planet after flowering plants began to largely replace conifers worldwide millions of years ago. In much of the forest areas around here there's virtually no undergrowth aside from mosses and similar plants because the trees block too much sunlight. So a lot of the woodlands, despite being untouched wilderness, are very easy to walk through, and you'd have little difficulty using a spear in them, provided it wasn't a long one (pikes would be out of the question IMO, but poleaxes and weapons of similar length would be OK). Not at all analogous to the woods of medieval Europe though, so this comment is not meant at all as a counter to any of the points made in this video.

[@jamesnewcomer4939]

I would argue with some of his suggested tactics with regard to pole weapons: for instance if you placed your pole armed forces with their backs to a wood I would very much want to send bowmen through to attack them as those bowmen would be fairly unapproachable by your poles. Moving threw the trees (with bows) might be a hassle, but the payoff could be good. Also...I'd think that attacking would be better because you may force your opponent back; while defending gives them the opportunity to use your cover to outflank your weapons tip.

[@DeliveryMcGee]

I know a guy who studies and reenacts the 30 Years War as a pikeman ... his pike is twice as long as the stick Matt almost knocked over the camera with. Also, re: jungles, my father was an "advisor" in Vietnam in 1970, and was issued a rifle with an 10.5" barrel, half the length of the M16 the regular Army got -- jungle carbines are still a thing. (or were, nowadays pretty much all US servicemen use the mid-length M4 carbine, the Marines being the standout with the original-rifle-length M16A2, because ... USMC.)

[@emarsk77]

To be fair, a lot of woods were farmed and managed back in the days. Maybe even more so than today, or differently at the very least. Let's not forget that they were a source of resources that were much more important than today, like wood, berries, nuts, game. This of course varied a lot from area to area, but it certainly wasn't all wild forests, especially near inhabited places.

[@DontKeeptheFaith]

That jacket is the best thing I've seen all day.

[@TheJediKnight91]

4:45 "Hello there"

[@Kanner111]

I mean they did boar hunting in the woods with spears. Granted there's some issues perhaps if you want to heroically whirl your spear around in a circle around you like a quarter staff but generally they didn't do that when fighting in formation anyway?

[@dordagiovex9989]

What about the battle in Germany where 3 legions were totally destroyed in the woods? Could that be an example? How was dragging a scutum through thick woods?

[@robertsandgren9389]

Very interesting! I had seen multiple videos with similar conclusions regarding the spear's superiority to the sword. It seemed impossible that a dedicated weapon(sword) would be invented and manufactured at great cost if it was less effective than the cheap hunting tool(spear) that was already at hand. There "ought" to be an explanation for the thousands of years of complicated sword-making when spears were so much more readily available and you just kindly provided it. :) It also seems likely that dense forests were FAR more common at the time of the sword's invention than they were in later wars.

[@ArttuPeltoniemi]

In my experience that i got in finland. Old woods are not tight af, but the midle aged woods are. Young foredt are super full and hard to move in, but really old ones have more space. And in the really old ones I can easily fight with spear, but cant easily rush my oponent, thus giving spear even more advantage.

[@AdlerMow]

Your should consider that in woods, there is a tendency to make use of chopping weapons that can double as tools, like hatchets and machetes. Take the messer, it was really popular with german commoners, who would use it mostly as a tool while working in the woods. The civilian swords used in rural areas tend to be cut-centric, the opposite of everywhere else.

[@CraigLYoung]

Matt, you should try to get that crazy old archaeologist from Time Team to nap you a good replication of a flint spear point. It would be a great addition to your collection.

[@colbunkmust]

Might explain why the French chose not to outflank the English at Azincourt and the English chose to remain with their flanks hemmed in to the wood line, But I would comment that temperate old-growth forests typically don't have dense undergrowth except around the periphery. Human impact can do a lot to influence the traversability of forests in either making it harder or easier depending on how the area is managed.

[@blastulae]

There was little true "wild wood" in Medieval England, so Robin Hood and his merrie men would have hidden out in essentially man-made forest.

[@assumjongkey1383]

Context

[@mpetersen6]

And here I thought they hid out in the back lot at MGM along with Rasil Bathbone and the Skipper's dad.

[@blastulae]

@@mpetersen6 And the Munchkins.

[@mpetersen6]

@@blastulae Nah, they're hanging under Finnegan's Rainbow

[@davebell4917]

The word "forest" can be misleading. It was more to do with hunting rights and limits to management. And the game rights in modern England can still be a PITA for farmers.

[@ElDrHouse2010]

that jacket looks nice on you my dude

[@andrewgillis3073]

Thick vegetation doesn't just impede spears. In the Battle of the Wilderness, during the American Civil War, soldiers had trouble aiming and firing their rifles in the thick forest. The bayonet was useless. Soldiers, and units, got lost and fired on their own forces. Many wounded soldiers died because the brush caught fire, and their comrades couldn't get to them in time. The artillery didn't even try to move through the forest.

[@cliffordjensen8725]

Good points. In todays fenced in landscapes, woods are often an impenetrable bramble. This is because browsing animals cannot get in there to forage. In pre-modern times most woods were heavily foraged by wild animals and herds of sheep, cattle, hogs, goats, and whatnot kept by the local peasants. I believe these woods would have been a bit more open then today.

[@Tutorp]

Not woods, but I'm pretty sure the Roman Legionnaires weaponry developed this way. In pre-Republic times, the Roman military used spears, and fought not too dissimilarly to the Greek phalanx. However, as Rome expanded, they discovered that these formations were weak to troops armed with short swords and big shields, particularly in the rough mountainous terrain in central Italy, and adopted this loadout instead.

[@Nachtmahr79]

In year 9 a.d. Varus was taught a hard lesson about woods by Arminius.

[@ianbruce6515]

I would think that a sapling like the one you are standing next to, would be a great help defending against a cutting sword! You could use your lunging, feinting, poking capabilities--and when the swordsman attempted to close, the sapling would impede his swings and guard your side, while you would still retain your swift jabbing ability! Couldn't you advance from tree to tree, picking your spots to hold? You could trail arms getting through vegetation and stab only in combat? Switching from high hold to a low hold might be impeded, true--but wouldn't a slashing weapon be even more at an advantage?

[@the-ru1is]

Great video, really enjoyed the bald villain look

[@beurksman]

Matt! Everything you say makes a lot of sense, but after watching Lindybeige's video "Forests in the olden days", I'm confused about what forests used to look like. He describes them as much more like a modern park, because of animals eating most of the saplings and them being managed and farmed for wood a lot more than today. Could you be a bit more specific about the times and places that these conditions would actually be encountered by armed forces?

[@alexbowen483]

Yeah makes sense, I think a knightly pole axe, short spear or thrusting long sword would work I'm the woods. You can't do many horizontal cutts in the woods if tree and brush are thick, probably mostly just thrusting forward. I swing a bush axe and brush hook in the woods often to clear brush and small trees, I couldn't imagine trying to fight someone in the thicket of the woods.

[@raphlvlogs271]

the Italian cinquedea was developed for confined spaces.

[@leeboy26]

Post-apocalyptic cannibal raider kindly demonstrates the pros and cons of polearm weaponry.

[@AnubisMRM]

My Romanian ancestors have a long history of using asymmetrical warfare tactics against invading armies from the Romans to the Tatars (and other tribes who invaded Europe), Ottomans, Hungarians, Polish or Russian forces. They used mountain passes, marshes or forests to their advantage wherever possible. When it comes to the weapons used, I need to do more research as I'm not sure what kind of troops were mostly used in those types of battles.