When to Outsource a Part (How We Decide)

[@HuskyMachining]

I would still love to help make parts for ya guys if you ever need a lathe part made (just got a new haas st10 that I want to use more) or anypart as I just like making stuff (especially 5 axis parts are fun). I can always charge you at cost if you guys don't like free work

[@VEDEMRACING99]

Thanks for taking the time to show this process! It's very informative!

[@biju4279]

Man i wish i can make a whole aircraft like you guys! .... its one of my hobby and dream to make and fly in one .. you guys rock!!!!

[@crazycons]

Two factors which we generally look in when outsourcing is the handling of problems with regards to stock keeping and reaction times of the supplier and connected to it also the quality control (which is the major topic)

[@DarkAeroInc]

Thanks for watching and the comment! Quality is definitely an important factor as well. The topic of quality control would make for a great video!

[@chriskroeker1889]

I would add health and safety to outsourcing decisions. Some suppliers work with materials routinely you don’t want in your building, or do operations that have higher personal risk. Also, strategic relationships - if I give them some business that I could do in-house, maybe they will decrease costs for other components I need them to build. Is there an opportunity for value-add to the part (e.g. minor assembly) that’s attractive? Is there a reduction in logistics risk? Lot’s of other considerations.

[@DarkAeroInc]

Chris, these great points to consider! Thank you for sharing. :)

[@vct.s]

Thanks to JarryRigEverything for showing me this amazing channel

[@edmondthompson1523]

Are your prototype parts anodized? Does the outsource machine shop do this, or would that require a second vendor? For in-house production parts will you batch outsource anodizing or will that be the builder's responsibility?

[@tuckpilot1192]

Anodizing can have significant impacts on the strength of materials. The NTSB has cited anodizing as contributing effect in some recent incidents.

[@gregpaulsen2631]

Hey, I work at Xometry and we do full turn-key machining services including post finishing. In many cases, we would be making the part to spec, with tapped holes, markings, secondary finishes, etc. Since DarkAero also has great in-house capabilities they ordered the milled components with a dimensional inspection report (CMM) for tolerance verification. Here's some more on our CNC services www.xometry.com/capabilities/cnc-machining-service/

[@edmondthompson1523]

@@gregpaulsen2631 Great information! Thanks!

[@capnthepeafarmer]

Xometry is pretty good, but make sure to always get the extra inspection. I've had quite a few parts come in which have been out of spec, it's a huge time waster.

[@bruceqin403]

we are also providing aerospace composites material ---PMI material.

[@martinnovak3949]

Instead of Xometry reach out to local machine shop with CMM and create long term relationship to source your parts, keep $$ local. They will help you lower the cost on design and they move much faster on changes in design.

[@peterlaine3929]

I've noticed that when you cut through your cored panels you do not close out the raw edge. I am a boat builder with no experience with aircraft, but in boats we always close the openings either by removing the core material between the skins about 1/2 inch and fill with an epoxy/ thickener mixture, or wrap from one skin around to and over the other skin, forming a "u" channel around the entire opening. this transfers load between the two skins, and of course in boats prevents salt water ingress, which is not a problem you experience.

[@DarkAeroInc]

Good eye Peter! We do close out the edges of the honeycomb panel, although there were probably some instances in the video that were not yet closed out. We have had some success using our assembly adhesive as a filler but we are looking for a good solution specifically engineered for edge sealing.

[@peterlaine3929]

I follow you guys with admiration, love that you share the knowledge, can’t wait to see her fly

[@gregpaulsen2631]

@@DarkAeroInc I actually wonder if 3D printed trim could work for a cleaner/custom fit with E-120HP bonding. FDM Ultem 9085 Black should hit flame retardant/self-extinguishing needs for a fuselage.

[@DanFrederiksen]

One thing just struck me, you know how there has long been talk of airless tires for cars? but people aren't sure about ride quality and durability. But a plane only rides on its wheels briefly and ride quality isn't a deal breaker. So maybe planes are ideal candidates for airless wheels. Could be super light and have more square narrower profile.

[@actually5004]

Pneumatic tires for energy dissipation, airless tires for maximum energy return- but that's fairly useless for a plane.

[@DanFrederiksen]

@@actually5004 I don't think that's real though, any significant drag would hurt take off, I think energy bleed is aero and brakes.

[@airgunningyup]

i have a small garage manufacturing company.. I have a simple rule for outsourcing , if its a pain in the ass - outsource ..

[@jamesreid6616]

For the any nut/bolt combos in your design do you specify stop nuts, loctite, etc.?

[@DarkAeroInc]

Great question! For nut/bolt combos, we typically use AN bolts with lock nuts. We put together a guide on our Knowledge Base that goes into more detail on fastener selection. www.darkaero.com/knowledge/hardware-specs/

[@parshvapatel8484]

DarkAero, Inc when do you think your marvellous project would be completed ✅

[@edstube2668]

Is Keegan sporting a new t-shirt design? I need to add that one to my collection. Thanks for another great video.

[@MisterMonsieur]

*I still don't understand* how having something made in China, then put on a truck, then put on boat, then shipped across an ocean, then put on another truck and shipped across the entire United States is cheaper than just having it made here in America. The only economically-based answer is slave labor! How else can you explain it? The other answer is that Xometry isn't controlling their overhead to be competitive.

[@CNC-pk8on]

Super cool.Learned a lot of useful things.

[@johnfitzpatrick2469]

Receiving economies of scale. Your explanation into the reasons for economies of scale: fantastic. Phrases like, bulk orders, logistical constraint and continuity, are in my toolbox. Your phrase gives summary definition, without a dought. Desirables * Have you heard of HUD in aircraft experimental, or just unrealistic? Thankyou for your You tube education program with DA. 🌏🇦🇺

[@DarkAeroInc]

Thanks for checking out the video! To your question, assuming you are referring to HUD as Heads Up Display? There are a few companies who have made basic HUD setups for experimental category. I’ve seen demos at AirVenture but haven’t flown with them and they haven’t yet gained widespread adoption. The technology is cool and I think it would potentially provide a safer and more enjoyable flying experience. I’m hoping to see the technology progress further so we can play Top Gun in the skies. ;)

[@anidiotinaracingcar]

Not sure I understood the tube you decided to outsource: wasn't there a case to be made about using an of-the-shelf component (and building the rest of the gear around it)?

[@henry2008kim]

I see you guys all the time machining components that are perhaps more suited to casting. Have you tried casting?

[@emrecelikli6457]

I can produce machine metallic, sheet metallic and composite parts for you. Even molds. I have a mid-size company producing parts for aviation industry.

[@TheCobra327]

Hey guys, I suggest a self locking worm drive vs. the spur gear design on the landing gear arm. Reducing back driving load and the worry of collapsing. Feel free to message me if desired. Hope to see you at OSH 2021

[@billmeldrum2509]

Always interesting. 🇨🇦

[@victoryautmotive1582]

I have another question, what is your decision making process when you are deciding whether to just squeegee on peel ply and that’s it, or use a full vacuum/infusion layup? Any pros or cons? Thanks in advance! Great videos!

[@DarkAeroInc]

Good question! We have used both wet layup and infusion. In general, wet layup is great for doing quick repairs/jobs where fiber to resin ratio isn't super critical. Additionally, wet layup is an easy process to get started on and doesn't require a lot of expensive equipment. We've used it to primarily for mold making. Infusion gives better surface finish, fiber to resin ratio, and is more repeatable than wet layup. This is the process we use for making all the aircraft skins. We put together a decent document with pros/cons on different composite processes a little while back: www.darkaero.com/knowledge/composites/

[@victoryautmotive1582]

@@DarkAeroInc FANTASTIC!!! I will read through that. Thank you for the quick response!

[@richardvisscher2626]

Hey everyone! the first flight is getting closer! if you haven't already I urge you to get your deposit in before the lineup gets too long. DarkAero 1 Aircraft - www.darkaero.com/aircraft

[@simonbaxter8001]

Have you done FEA on those machined parts and the whole nose gear assembly? Be really good to see a video on that process.

[@DarkAeroInc]

Yes, we use a combination of hand calcs and FEA to analyze the loads and stresses on the landing gear. We haven't shown FEA in a video, but we did have an IG post about it at one point here: instagram.com/p/Bqs37GzFTbb/ We have considered doing a video about FEA but it's a tricky one to break down for a broad audience. Might be a fun one to try and tackle. :)

[@nicolassalischiker3924]

In the gearbox, what is the freely rotating thing on which the two idler gears are on called? And is it so that if the motor fails, then the landing gear can be lowered with the gas springs without forcing the motor to spin?

[@DarkAeroInc]

We are calling it the gear carrier. Correct! It allows the motor to be disconnected from the rest of the gear train an allow the nose gear to fall without having to back driving the motor. There are different ways to accomplish this but the gear carrier was a quick, effective solution we settled on.

[@patrickeder527]

Do you use the metric system or not?

[@alexp3572]

Thank you for your contribution! I am wondering how did you calculate the load in the trunion and the landing gear to make sure it will with stand the landing

[@Space-Cowboy88]

What do you do about xometrys tolerances limitations? They can’t achieve anything under .005 in + or -

[@DarkAeroInc]

Hey, thanks for checking out the vid. It is possible to request tolerances below +/- 5 thou. There is a drop down menu to request tighter tolerances. Additionally, you can upload a print and request tighter tolerances there.

[@MurrayC]

Excellent video, thanks

[@DarkAeroInc]

Murray, thanks for watching!

[@Scrogan]

Huh, didn’t know they could be that cheap. Looks like a good service!

[@deeplato5647]

Is the DarkAero team considering a lathe purchase going forward to help with rapid prototyping... worth the investment? thanks!

[@DarkAeroInc]

We have had some discussions about what machines we might upgrade to for production, but we probably will not purchase a lathe. There are only a handful of lathe components in the whole aircraft and they are really simple to make so we could probably keep these as outsourced components.

[@joerghh]

Do you exchange drawings with your suppliers to define tolerances, surface quality, coatings etc.? It's hard to imagine for me to transfer all that data with the model only... Greetings from Hamburg!

[@DarkAeroInc]

Joerg, thank you for watching and for the question! For these parts we did share drawings to communicate critical features. The drawings show up briefly at 6:29 in the video.

[@parrotraiser6541]

Did anyone else catch the pricing scale? Essentially, economy = $1, standard = $2, panic = $3. In other words, "plan!" There will probably be many components where size, material, process or production volume mean that someone else can make it more economically, (or just better), than you can. The trunnion that was best made on a lathe was a perfect example. Uniquely large components would be another. You could buy the oversized machinery to make it, which would be underused and take up space, or pay someone who already has one to use theirs. Casting (especially magnesium), or machining titanium (nasty stuff, very fussy) are examples where buying a few hours of somebody else's lifetime skills is probably better than trying to learn them. Standard components like fasteners, wires, &c obviously make little sense to make. (Though there was Bugatti and his custom threads and vices, which didn't do him a lot of good.) Adam Smith described the virtues of specialisation in 'The Wealth of Nations" in 1776, David Ricardo followed up with the theory of Greater Comparative Advantage, and despite the DIY fad, they haven't really changed. Do the things that make you different and add the most value, (e.g. moulding the right aerofoil with the right structure), and let someone else do the commodity work.

[@earlgreystoke3324]

How many components are you outsourcing to China?

[@usaerospace6707]

Get a Prototrak lathe.

[@nzkiwi9]

Either Keegan took a hit to the lower lip, or he shot this video with a dip in. Classic Wisconsin :-)

[@ilyakhamitov982]

up&up! вверх

[@anidiotinaracingcar]

Have you ever outsourced the *design* of a part?

[@douglascloud4484]

so you guys have been working on the darkaero for what 5 years. how come you dont show any airplane or progress? are you just geeking out on youtube or are you really serious? ive seen some pics of the airplane but they look like an artist rendition. It looks really cool, but wheres the airplane? please forgive my disbelief.

[@PH-G]

Back to back videos? That's crazy

[@DarkAeroInc]

One more coming Saturday morning! Thank you for tuning in! 👊🏼

[@PH-G]

@@DarkAeroInc :o

[@glennllewellyn7369]

@@DarkAeroInc Yippeeeeee!

[@ThePipeiper]

Man y’all are asking a lot of those gear teeth on the landing gear.

[@Thewaldo12345]

Dude use a local machine shop. You will save so much money.

[@DylonDylonDylon]

He sounds just like TierZoo

[@peterparsons7141]

Inches?! Why not design,build using science measurements?

[@troy4393]

Oh god... That's a Versaplanetary and a BAG motor. Y'all gonna die after the carrier plate pins back out.

[@miguelbravo2004]

Spanish Please!!!

[@derbigpr500]

Xometry is terribly overpriced in my experience, both for CNC machining and 3D printing, and I've had better quality CNC work for like 1/3rd the cost from some companies in China, with better direct communication with engineers instead of automated quoting systems that basically leave you no room for customization.