When Worf Went From TNG To Save DS9! Star Trek History!

[@kal0247]

Worf really shined when he got to DS9 and brought a lot to the show.

[@ginger00022]

Worf was a great add to DS9.

[@frakking]

"It's like the writers [of Picard] just didn't even really know what they were doing." Yes, it is like that, isn't it?

[@kerry-j4m]

I LOVE DS9,it's my favorite trek show-EASILY.Then TNG 2nd. DS9 has long story arcs,the female leads shine in more episodes than TNG and go on more away missions too.Kira and DAx would actually lead away missions too,plus,Major/Colonel Kira was 2nd in command of DS9.Maior Kira and Dax were also very GOOD fighter,Dax trained with Wolf. Kira routinely beat-up males on the show.Something Dr Crusher or Troi never did nor could do. DS9's support characters got lots of screen time and story-lines also,Quark,Nog,Gul-Dukat,etc,etc,..

[@swiftchangeable]

I really appreciate it when DS9's quality is acknowledged even when it's not the reviewer's particular cup of tea. Back when it was airing it was really difficult to get people to admit it was a good show because it was radically different from not just every Star Trek show, but almost every other television show in general. I think it's the greatest Star Trek show ever, but I'll be the first to tell you that it's not for everyone.

[@noneed4me2n7]

DS9 is the one I go back and rewatch episodes more than all the other series. To be fair I watch the others fairly regularly too; having them all on multiple formats makes that easy.

[@galadballcrusher8182]

And copied Babylon 5 plenty. The maker of Babylon 5 had pitched the show to the studio even gibing them access to the long term arc and timeline planned then they turned him down and made their own persistent arc show based on a space station : DS9. And don't get me wrong, TNG and DS9 are my fav trek shows, but one has to acknowledge Babylon 5 influence.

[@noneed4me2n7]

@ i think they quietly settled out of court on that but yeah as a fan of both series it a easy to see where someone was “borrowing” ideas from the other. I’d argue DS9 had a better cast but B5 i felt had a more cohesive narrative through the entirety of its run and into its spin-off.

[@noneed4me2n7]

@ i think they quietly settled out of court on that but yeah as a fan of both series it a easy to see where someone was “borrowing” ideas from the other. I’d argue DS9 had a better cast but B5 i felt had a more cohesive narrative through the entirety of its run and into its spin-off.

[@kenjisparks]

I would argue it was Behr becoming the showrunner of DS9, not Worf coming on to save it.

[@Cre80s]

Never could really get into DS9. Didn't dislike it, and I can see why people who did like it liked it, but it felt fundamentally different. It was the fact that instead of "going out there" it was "just sitting there." It literally didn't fit the very term TREK, and should have instead been called Star Base. That may seem like a pft take, but I know I'm not alone, and certainly wasn't alone then. The very fact they added the Runabout only made this problem more laughable, a near admission the show about space travel was conspicuously missing the travel part. I remember joking with fellow Trekkers at the time, "well, maybe THIS is where the pilot episode should have been." Same with Worf joining the show. It didn't make me like DS9 more, it make me miss TNG more. And it's no mystery the cast of DS9 was resentful he was added to the cast. It had the whiff of a cheap rescue move, like they needed saving from not being "Trek enough." I've heard it from Colm Meaney's own lips in a convention during it's run. Every minute and ounce of resources spent on his character (who'd already been given 7 years of development, plus movies to come) was time/resources/attention pulled off of the cast that was already there trying to give DS9 it's own legs to stand on.

[@gohawks3571]

Yeah, I have a friend that won't even watch it. But I love DS9 not only for the different perspective, but also fleshing out the Ferengi, Cardassians, Klingons, Bajorans, and added new groups. Section 31, too, a bit. I liked the overall story as well.

[@Cre80s]

@ Yeah, IMO, compared to "other tv" and/or other tv sci-fi", DS9 was a far above average show, worth watching and keeping up with. But compared to "other Trek" up to that point, it was a big step down. The best I can describe it, it was a great companion piece to TNG, but only just. Naturally, it's easy to get caught up in what felt like further development, and it was doubtless well done. But it was still surfing the wave of it's predesessor.

[@gohawks3571]

@Cre80s I suppose my timing might be part of my perspective. I didn't get to watch it growing up, and only saw a bit here and there when I first moved out. So I've only had everything on Paramount to really watch it properly. If I could have watched normally, it might have been a really hard transition. I do like TNG👍🖖

[@the7percentsolution]

I always thought it was funny that Worf makes that comment on the Defiant about never being on a Starfleet ship with a cloaking device but in the TNG episode Pegasus the Enterprise not only used a cloaking device but it also let them go through solid matter. Granted, it was very brief, but still they did use it and he was there. Now that's a nitpick :P

[@alejandronopasanada5302]

Was Worf on that ship?

[@JFJD]

He was, and technically it was a phasing device.

[@Musicita]

I think about that, too, when I hear the line. I try to excuse him by saying it was probably classified…

[@Analog_Mind47]

Seasons 1&2 of DS9 though troubled were not as bad as Seasons 1&2 of TNG & both shows had their kinks worked out by season 3

[@gohawks3571]

For sure! That game one was annoying, but at least it wasn't racist😂 Plus, there were really good episodes in those early seasons (I do love TNG, but those early seasons were.... Yeah)

[@JohnAnderson-jy2js]

What the hell is he talking about he was on board the USS Enterprise when it used that federation cloaking device on the 7th season episode Pegasus

[@MasterFhyl]

But O'brien was also a TNG character.

[@raoularmagnac2037]

Yes, that is true. However, he really wasn't a REGULAR on TNG. He was more of a RECURRING character.

[@MasterFhyl]

@@raoularmagnac2037True. But I mean, he ended up with a major-ish role of transporter chief. Geordie started in pretty much the same spot at the beginning of the show, and look where he ended up.

[@megavolt67]

I think there are drawbacks when going more serial than episodic. When a serialized show is building up to a climatic episode or set of episodes, sometimes the episodes in between don't stand out as much. Feeding into the eventual payoff matters more than whether or not each episode is memorable or compelling on its own. In an episodic show, you have more of an opportunity for individual episodes to be fantastic and rewatchable on their own merits since how they fit into a larger story isn't as important. Saying that, DS9 isn't actually that much more serialized than TNG except for the first handful of episodes in Season 6 and the final stretch of Season 7. It sort of tries to have it both ways trying to be standard Trek at times but also trying to be like Babylon 5, the premise it blatantly ripped off. I'm glad that DS9 exists and it's probably my second favorite Trek series but if I make a list of my favorite DS9 episodes (basically anything with Garak in it and some others) and a list of my favorite TNG episodes, the TNG list is bigger. Oh yeah, and I HATED what DS9 did with Kurn. It was a total betrayal of the character who agreed when Picard told him to never forget the sacrifice that Worf made and to never let his children forget. He wouldn't overlook the empire's dishonorable actions just to save face. Speaking of which, I didn't care for how the show turned Gowron into an amoral lunatic when just a season before he was shown to be a man of honor in that one Quark episode. Gowron was ambitious and could be a bit paranoid, but he usually did the right thing in the end. But then it's easy for some edgy writers and their fans to justify characters acting out of character for the sake of artificial drama, depth, and development which is appealing to people who thought that TNG's main crew getting along well was a shortcoming. It's the kind of thinking that leads to many stories being shocking or revolting for no other reason but to pretend at being deeper, more interesting, and more "real".

[@jmlaw8888]

I agree with a lot of your points. I respect DS9 for some things like some real high points in writing (In the pale moonlight is DS9s finest hour imo and up there with the best ever Trek episodes) but I also think its actually quite an overrated show by and large. I resent the suggestion by some people that DS9 improved on TNG characters Worf and O'Brien and made them into "DS9 characters". Utter tosh. It heavily leaned on them for credibility. They already were excellent characters it just leveraged the weight they brought by giving them more screen time. Its no wonder they wanted Ro Laren as well. I also will never forgive DS9 for being an insulting ripoff of B5. I dont think it did serialized storytelling anywhere near as well as the show it owes its existence to (well other than TNG that is) and B5 had a FAR more troubled life than DS9. I also think the Dominion are a tremendously overrated and overwrought plot sword. Their writing always bored me stiff. For all the Borgs 1 dimensional nature and easy to exploit plot weaknesses they were at least truly alien foe and direct opposite to the Federation. The Dominion are just every other rubber forehead Star Trek race that preceeded them but more juiced up on plot power. Without Weyoun they are absent any standout character or plot merit imo. And they leaned heavily on TNGs Cardassians again. Bottom line I think DS9 is a show that starts poorly, ends even worse and is only saved from its unsavory origins as a B5 ripoff by some occasionally superb character writing, plot writing and acting. Like "best Trek has to offer" moments. DS9 is a show I like a lot but still think is vastly overrated. Its an odd place to be. TNG however is a show I adore and have only grown more fond of over the years.

[@seskalarafey9285]

well, to get the TNG Crew back in Picard season 3, was also to respect their wishes. Because they did stop Shooting TNG and they could had gone their ways. Heck even Picard once said he never wanted to come back (or so) and he got his own Show. So, respecting their own wishes was surly important, too. I am not so an DS9 Fans even lesser of the Dominion arc. But Voyager got me back into Star Trek

[@jasongould04]

Voyager sucks don’t be so basic

[@robertjones9595]

DS9 got better in season 3 because of the defiant and the Dominion

[@kerry-j4m]

AGREED.

[@QuartuvLarry]

I’ve always said, DS9 took its lessons from Babylon 5

[@matthewgoodsell480]

Worf is probably the most interesting, highly developed character in all of Star Trek, IMHO. Qa'Pla!

[@YouDingo88]

Worf hopped on the good foot and did the bad thing with Jadzia, saving DS9 while puzzling Nagilum.

[@nebody4457]

Nitpick: the comic with characters showing up on DS9, Commander Scott? He was a captain in relics.

[@DCMarvelMultiverse]

I found it hilarious that Berman was afraid of serializing in 1995 when Babylon 5 debuted in 1993 and was serialized well into the late nineties.

[@coryloveless7801]

Got that tv guide in mint condition wonder if it worth money

[@jokerz7936]

While DS9 was the 1st American Sci-Fi show to do serialized tv there was a lot of Prime Time Soaps and Hour Long Drama's that had become serialized in the 80's.

[@DCMarvelMultiverse]

Babylon 5.

[@harryparsons2750]

I could never get into DS9. TNG all the way. I was young but it was brand new when I first watched it with my dad

[@Blindgenxgamer]

It most likely would have turned out differently for Worf if Tasha wasn't killed off

[@Data_loves_lore]

My veiwers love your content and so do i 💜💜

[@captain4053]

What season is this episode from?

[@gohawks3571]

4

[@blakstik8]

DS9 saved Worf

[@murrynathan]

Back when Worf joined DS9 I felt they had changed his character. I remember saying to a friend, “That’s not Worf, now they’re making stuff up.” I really meant it, but immediately understood what I had just said.

[@AnnoyingCritic-is7rp]

Basically Worf became boring, dull, stuck up. The greatest problem was when he almost killed an entire planet of people because they were on vacation, and he wanted to make it difficult for him. As much as we all feel like we want to do that at resorts, it's probably not the moral or ethical thing to do...

[@trekgirl65]

You tore down a great character and Dorn got great input in Picard. You need to grow up.

[@bobdobbs420]

TNG scripts were bad. DS9 stories were much better.

[@gohawks3571]

I wouldn't say they were all bad. But there certainly were bad scripts. Early TNG had such slooooooow pacing.