WHERE are the non-Johto Gen 2 Pokemon FROM?

We looked at the Gen 1 Pokemon that aren't Kanto Pokemon already, but Johto is so much more of a mess! We even have new Gen 2 "Johto" Pokemon in Kanto...
There are a lot of grey areas, and I think I've made my case for where I place each of them in the video. If you disagree, make your case in the comments -- I respond to every comment I get!
Thank you so much for checking us out! Don't forget to subscribe if you want to see more videos from Babu's Game Room!
*******
00:00 Intro/Premise
00:40 Mythicals: Celebi
02:02 Legendaries: Ho-oh, Lugia, & Legendary Beasts
02:22 Sudowoodo
03:08 Gen 2 Pokemon in Kanto
03:33 Mt. Silver: Larvitar & Misdreavus
05:04 Gen 2 Kanto: Slugma
06:50 Gen 2 Kanto: Murkrow & Houndour
09:08 Evolutions of Kanto Pokemon
09:51 Item Evolutions: Upgrade (Porygon2)
10:18 Item Evolutions: Sun Stone (Bellossom)
11:14 Item Evolutions: Metal Coat (Steelix and Scizor)
12:19 Item Evolutions: Dragon Scale (Kingdra)
12:49 Item Evolutions: King's Rock (Slowking & Politoed)
14:00 Happiness Evolutions: Crobat, Blissey, Espeon, & Umbreon
16:07 Gift Pokemon
16:41 Gift: Tyrogue (revisited!)
17:42 Gift: Starters (Chikorita, Cyndaquil, & Totodile)
18:08 Gift: Togepi
19:56 Baby Pokemon
20:49 The final list
21:23 Outro
*******
Channel and related artwork by Safia Tasnim.
Channel music by Chris Klammer.
Used clips, images, and footage from:
- Bulbapedia
- Serebii
- Pokemon commercials and trailers
- SatoMew: "The Gantetsu’s Suberb Ball or Gold-Silver Ball delivery event (Japanese Pokémon Crystal)" • The Gantetsu's Superb ...
- Nintendo Wire: "How to Catch Celebi in Pokémon Crystal | 3DS Virtual Console" • How to Catch Celebi in...
- 4faraj: " When Sudowoodo runs away from you in Pokémon Scarlet and Violet" • When Sudowoodo runs aw...
- Crystal_: " Pokemon Yellow - All Pikachu emotions, and a look at Pikachu's friendship" • Pokemon Yellow - All P...
- Step by Step Guides: " How to Catch Hitmon[...] #Pokemon Sword & Shield - Galar Pokedex" • How to Catch Hitmontop... • How to Catch Hitmonlee... • How to Catch Hitmoncha... (one video each for Hitmontop, Hitmonlee, and Hitmonchan)
Please find music credits in the video!
Pokemon/Pokémon is owned by Nintendo, Creatures Inc., and Game Freak. All rights belong to the respective rights holders.
Support the developers by purchasing any of the other current Pokemon games like Pokemon Scarlet and Pokemon Violet, Pokemon Legends: Arceus, or New Pokemon Snap on the Nintendo Switch!
*******
Every like, subscription, and even every view really helps us out! If you like our content, please consider supporting us by simply enjoying our videos, and checking back when we upload new videos!

[@krisrk1]

Interesting how Murkrow and Houndour are near Celadon City. Which was one of Team Rocket’s bases. Team Rocket definitely caused something with Dark types.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oh man, I don't know how I missed that! The Murkrow and Houndour are trapped between two major Team Rocket strongholds! (Saffron being the main one, and Celadon housing their main base) Murkrow were able to spread out because they can fly over Celadon, but Houndour are trapped in that little patch of grass between the two cities.

[@krisrk1]

Besides Silver, Karen, and a Kimono Girl, Team Rocket were also the only trainers to use Dark types if I remember correctly. They probably stocked up on them to counter Mewtwo. Perhaps some Rockets were still hiding in Celadon City. And with Team Rocket finally disbanding following the events at Radio Tower, all the Dark types were then released.

[@ejokurirulezz]

Considering how dark type is evil type in Japanese, this makes more sense indeed.

[@cristhianmlr]

But there where Dark types in Hissu so it doesn't make sense they were discovered just yet.

[@dii3218]

​@cristhianmlr its a kids game with time-travel elements, dont overthink it

[@BeanoNintendo]

"Team Rocket did it" is the Pokémon equivalent of "a wizard did it"

[@BabusGameRoom]

ahaha, at least I try to figure out HOW the wizard did it! =D

[@wildresin6292]

No not really

[@marcoasturias8520]

But that's how Mewtwo exists

[@vegitoisbaas]

Gaster did it😂😂

[@Trevor_NewJerusalem]

Only if you ignore everything.

[@corbangonzalez4935]

Togepi is from hisui and there’s a great reason for that. A dex entry says that Togekiss are going extinct in modern days. That would explain why the entire evolutionary line could be found in the wild is hisui, but are so rare in modern days.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Ohhh, interesting! I hadn't seen Togekiss' dex entry that mentions its evolutionary family going extinct. That makes a lot of sense!

[@seandudley556]

you get a Togepi egg in Platinum as well

[@corbangonzalez4935]

@@seandudley556 true, but like in Johto, that egg could’ve come from anywhere.

[@servilleta__6075]

I was about to mention that, the same way Lapras was endangered. The main availability being rare gift eggs in gens 2 and 4 too

[@IvmonLimon]

Also, isn't togetic in the wild in hisui?

[@WilfredCthulu]

Imagine you're just chilling and then a slugma comes flying in and splats on your window.

[@BabusGameRoom]

LMAO! People talk about tripping over Geodudes, but no one mentions getting hit by a flying Slugma. ....maybe that's because there's no survivors...ahaha

[@voilet-the-non-violet-vulpix]

⁠@@BabusGameRoom Even if you DID survive, who’s going to tell that story‽ “You got hit by a flying Slugma? Hardyharhar, yeah, fly in & Slugma nuts, great joke Riley 🙄”

[@lasercraft32]

Imagine you're just chilling and then a slugma comes flying in and melts _through_ your window, instantly killing you.

[@anthonypeterman959]

Mt. Silver is canonically in Johto. In both GSC and HGSS, you can only fly to Mt. Silver from Johto, meaning it can not be a part of Kanto.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oh, that's a good point! I thought you could fly there from Kanto from some reason. The PokeCenter might be in Kanto or something technically...hmm. It's interesting that the route itself appears in Kanto, but Mt. Silver proper is definitely on the Johto side of the border.

[@hhjan594]

@@BabusGameRoom The Pokemon Center outside of Mt. Silver is only flyable from Johto. By all means "Mt Silver Pokemon" are canonically from Johto, yes.

[@GraceonGaming]

I was actually playing with the hgss map tonight, and it actually will say if the area you're hovering over is Kanto or Johto, and everything to the east of New Bark Town is Kanto.

[@AzraelThanatos]

@@GraceonGamingI kind of think that the entire mountain range, including Victory Road and Mt Silver is a border range that is, probably, something that could count as both at the same time.

[@astolfosmg]

@@GraceonGaming Mt. Silver is actually a Johto enclave. On the map in HGSS it says it's part of Johto, even thought all the areas surrounding it are Kanto.

[@sormeki5638]

Togepi is Hisuian. Its evos exist in the wild, and the connection between Hisui and Johto makes sense for the eggs to end up in Johto via the Sinjoh area where the Celestic people migrated.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a great point! I really need to play Legends: Arceus...ahaha Are the Celestic people and the Sinjoh area in L:A?

[@mbii7667]

​@@BabusGameRoom you definitely should!

[@eshasunrise]

@@BabusGameRoom No on the second question, oof on the first.

[@Zek3nator]

@@BabusGameRoom Honestly, it’s the best switch Pokemon game.

[@WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer]

So canonically ancient Johto and Hisu are right next door to each other. Kurt’s ancestors from Johto are the ones that created pokeballs from apircorns that spread throughout the world. It appears that the burning tower incident caused something bad happen my guess is a mass migration of pokemon happened led by Ho-Oh and Lugia. Remember Burning Tower in ancient Johto was the peak culture center of all of pokemon which was about 10-15yrs after Legend’s arceus. That could explain why certain pokemon went extinct and have various forms. Ho-Oh and Lugia have the power to revive and change the elemental typing of dead pokemon.

[@nitemare107]

Scizor and Steelix not existing in Gen 1 could be explained by people simply never trying it. Metal types were discovered between gen 1 and 2, as shown by Jasmine's pre-battle dialogue. A separate npc at the lighthouse mentions that Jasmine used to train rock type Pokemon like Onix, so my theory is that she was one of the people involved in their discovery.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's definitely true of the Metal Coat! The King's Rock and Dragon Scale could be found on wild Pokemon who use it to evolve though, meaning that about 1 in every 20 Poliwhirl, Seadra, or Slowpoke that were traded in Gen 1 "should" evolve...but obviously, they didn't! That suggests to me that something else is at play.

[@kyleellis1825]

Klink only appeared 100 years ago. So metal/steel type is really only 100 years old to humanity.

[@kelb6762]

@@BabusGameRoom Occam's razor answer is that people, not realizing they were anything other than weirdly shaped rocks/scales they seemed to have picked up, didn't have their pokemon hold them in general and certainly not during trading. if a pokemon seemed particularly attached to the weird shaped rock/the scale then they could hand it over to the new trainer with a comment about how the pokemon liked to play with the item, and thus no evolution would happen since the item wasn't attached during the process. we do that in the real world when people buy pets/have them boarded. i handed my cat's toys over separately when i boarded her last month, she wasn't holding them during the transfer, so it makes sense that sort of thing would apply in the pokemon world too

[@BabusGameRoom]

@@kyleellis1825 Oh man...Klink does not seem like a Pokemon that's older than the franchise! haha I guess this is what Game Freak started doing as the series progressed...

[@kyleellis1825]

@@BabusGameRoom Steel type could just be a natural evolution of the rock type. A mutation that appeared 100 years or so ago kind of thing. Or because humans started understanding metal/rock better in modern times, they understood the difference between iron ore and rocks more so the classification change was added. Same thing with fairy type. It could be a relatively new mutation in pokemon that's been continued on as a useful trait, especially since pokemon can pass on egg moves down to basically any other pokemon in like 2 generations.

[@scoutdnr]

I think the implication for both sets of starters is that the professor found them all in their respective regions but they're just so rare that you can never find more.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I guess Professor Oak could've found his set a looong time ago...but he doesn't exactly seem to be the most capable of raising Pokemon these days! haha (Though I do wish we would've gotten the battle with Professor Oak...he was even hinted to be the Champion based on the emails on his computer in Gen 1!)

[@scoutdnr]

@@BabusGameRoom yes and I believe he says so in his dialogue. Something about these being the only three left from his days as a Pokémon trainer long ago.

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

Considering the Sinnoh starters are rare spawns in Hisui I believe this follows. The starters are native but just extremely rare in the wild.

[@Vigriff]

@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes Their imbalanced gender ratios doesn't help matters.

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

For metal coat, i think people were aware that they exist, they just weren't aware that if you took a metal coat from magnemite, then gave it to onix/scyther, THEN traded it over, that they would evolve. There's a lot of steps involved for the item trade evolutions and so it makes sense that people just didn't think to try it during red's adventure

[@BabusGameRoom]

Yeah, the Metal Coat would be a tough one to discover naturally. Just like it was for us when we didn't have guides or the internet! haha The King's Rocks and Dragon Scales *were* attached to wild Pokemon who could evolve with them though, so about 1 out of 20 of every Seadra, Slowpoke, or Poliwhirl that was traded in Gen 1 "should've" evolved (but obviously didn't).

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

@@BabusGameRoom maybe no one just wanted to get a seadra from a trade, i know i wouldn't lol. But yeah, the metal coat thing is a lot more plausible than the others, that's not even getting into the gen 4 evolutions.

[@charnalk5572]

I don't think trading is an actual evolution method in lore, because some trade evo Pokémon can exist in the wild. Trade probably triggers something within the pokemon, that would occur naturally but much slower (like how the gen 5 bugs only evolve in a trade, but they can still evolve in nature by exchange their armor/silk. The trade mechanic was just a way to illustrate the exchange aspect). People also need to remember that steel type was actually just discovered as of GS. This was somewhat retconned, but steel Pokemon only recently were discovered and people like Jasmine and Bugsy are implied to be the ones who discovered them (Jasmine was a rock type gym leader before her Onix evolved, and she changed her speciality so as to not abandon it meaning that it was neither a trade nor a willing evo, it just happened randomly. Bugsy is explicitly studying unevolved or cocoon pokemon seeing what might happen if pushed more, hence his overlvled cocoon and Scyther, who just happen to also have a new evo this generation).

[@rikajougasaki3296]

I feel that the Togepi line fits more with old Hisui, but I guess they don't live there today unless you count the Underground of Sinnoh. They are flying Pokemon, so being much like migratory birds isn't out of the question.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oh, Hisui would be a good spot for them too! Legends: Arceus came out after SwSh, so I just went by where I found them first...but Hisui is a plausible alternative, especially since Sinnoh was where we first saw Togekiss! Somehow, I keep forgetting that Togepi is kind of a bird. I never got a Togetic back in the day (let my Pokemon faint too much), and even that one doesn't really look like a bird that migrates so much as a fairy that "floats"...and then there's Togekiss, which can DEFINITELY migrate, but it looks more like a jet than a bird to me! haha

[@supersaiyansalamence]

I think a good explanation for Espeon and Umbreon is that Eevee is simply scarce. No one we encounter uses an eeveelution except for Blue who uses a stone to evolve his and our Eevee probably never reaches a high enough friendship to evolve naturally.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's true -- Though I did know some people who kept their Eevees as Eevees back in the day specifically to not evolve them. I blame that episode of the anime with the Eevee kid... ...they probably weren't the best trainers though, so I can imagine their Eevees fainting a lot. No excuses for Safia's Golbat Batty and my Chansey Eggbeam though! They were so happy!! ahaha

[@kyleellis1825]

The only Eevee in gen 1 are given to us by some rich lady and our Rival who gets one from Oak. Eevee probably isn't a Kanto pokemon and is porbably a Johto imported pet (or even Sinnoh/Kalos).

[@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelli]

Togepi is wild in ancient Sinnoh... Er... Hisui. I also kinda like the idea that the one egg found in GSC was an ancient egg. It kind of has a dinosaur egg feel to it. And Togepi being (eventually) a fairy type adds to its mysticism.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Haha, that's gotta' be a reference to my earlier calling of Hisui "ancient Sinnoh", lol I could see Togepi being from Hisui, too! SwSh were released before L:A, so I stopped looking after I found a "place" for the Togepi line...but an ancient egg would be fun, too! I'm still trying to rationalize how the Fairy types could come into existence...

[@krisrk1]

In Cherrygrove City, there is a pool of water in upper right corner. It cannot be accessed by the player. The Johto starters could be native to that lake. Similar how the Kanto starters are also hiding off map. 😁

[@BabusGameRoom]

There we go!! That's Gen 2's "grass outside of Pallet Town"!! I'm not sure if it makes sense for Cyndaquil, but it's great for the other two! I'll take it, either way! =D

[@eastonmurdock04]

Idk if they changed this in the remakes but i remember you can surf on the pond near cherrygrove you just need to go up and to the right on route 30

[@krisrk1]

The pond is accessible in the remakes, but not in gen 2 GSC.

[@eastonmurdock04]

@krisrk1 ah i gotcha

[@KaoruMzk]

My best guess about the post game Dark types is that Team Rocket imported them at some point (probably as potential prizes for the game corner). They're located around Celadon, which was their headquarters and after you dismantled them in RBY, the Pokemon just settled around the area, like an invasive species.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oooh, Game Corner prizes would make a lot of sense! I wish they would've been prizes in Johto's Game Corner for some earlier access...would've felt better than leaving Dark-types to being almost end-game exclusive! haha

[@shadowmarauder6033]

The team rocket theory honestly makes a lot of sense. The fear they brought to the region could’ve stifled any friendship evolution plus strict curfews and poaching could lead to many discoveries on dark types, steel types and others to be covered up from the public.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I'm glad you like my take on the theory! =D It's really the only plausible explanation imo! haha

[@zoroproductions1152]

To the friendship evolutions I might add, in the gen 1 remakes the friendship mechanic can only successfully evolve Pokemon in the postgame, so AFTER the Events of the silph co, so the friendship problem of the manufactured Pokeballs were fixed by the now freed Silph co workers. to Togepi: it is catchable in the wild in legends Arceus, so it would be a historical Sinnoh Pokemon, but became so rare it can only be encountered with the poke radar , like Stantler

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oooh, that's a great addition to the "hacked" Pokeballs theory! =D The Togepi idea makes a lot of sense too! I like the idea of them being Galarian (since it's just so weird to me for a Gen 2 Pokemon to actually first be native to the Gen 8 region, so far removed)...Hisui is another good choice, though!

[@BlazingKhioneus]

Plus, there is a second gift Togepi egg aside from the one professor elm and mr Pokémon were gawking at: cynthia. In platinum she gives you a Togepi egg and uses a Togekiss on her team. Whether theyre imported or not is up for debate, but it does point to possibly the cinnection between Togepi and Sinnoh/hisui.

[@ArkUmbrae]

When it comes to Togepi, there's a whole lot of hidden lore related to it, but it's technically not from this time at all. Basically, we know from some game that when Celebi appears in the game's timeline, it brings an egg with it. The Kimono girls from Ecruteak Town are the lore-keepers of Johto (which is established in HG/SS), and they take care of Celebi's shrine. They take these eggs and give them to worthy trainers. The only way to get a Togepi in Johto is from Mr. Pokemon, a person of importance who the Kimono Girls could trust. In FR/LG, you also get a Togepi from an NPC in the Sevii islands who doesn't have a name, but looks like Mr. Pokemon. And both times, he talks about how he only gives eggs to worthy trainers. In R/S/E, you can get a Togepi in Mirage Island, which is basically a place that exists outside of space. In D/P/Pt, Cynthia gives you an egg with a Togepi, and she even uses a Togekiss on her team. Her hometown has a shrine similar to the one in the Ilex Forest, she can be encountered in the Sinnoh library (so another person interested in the lore of the Pokemon world), and she uses a Glaceon just like how the Kimono Girls all use Eeveelutions. I know that there's more to this story too. Ruin Maniac Files on KZbin has a great video on the Kimono Girls (and their relation to Bill from Kanto) that goes into even more detail.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

Which lines up with being able to find the togepi line naturally in Hisui. They're an old species that's become endangered

[@BabusGameRoom]

Very interesting! The Johto story almost points to the Togepi egg being from another point in time!

[@mrpenderz]

I do really like the theory that Team Rocket were intentionally sabotaging Poké Ball production as it would make their stated goal of stealing Pokémon a lot easier.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I'm glad someone else likes the theory! =D

[@EnbyFish]

I love the idea that Tyrogue and Togepi are Galar native. Having recent gens add a narrative thread is cool.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Yeah! Sometimes the newer games make things more confusing...but sometimes they answer long-standing questions that we never knew we had! =D

[@EnbyFish]

@@BabusGameRoom I think it’s also worth noting that Bea has a Hitmontop. I know you said you didn’t want to include the anime in the theorycrafting, but she trains with the fighting dojo in Kanto and Chuck in Johto. She uses her Hitmontop against Ash in Johto. Maybe she had something to do with the Hitmon line making their way overseas?

[@BabusGameRoom]

Ohhh, that's interesting! She uses Hitmontop in the game too, and I don't see any reason why we can't have Karate Masters from around the world sharing Pokemon... These are some great points!

[@tyranitararmaldo]

Fun Larvitar fact. In Crystal it can be obtained via the Game Corner in Celadon City. Meaning it is possible to have it before the fight with Red (or even all the Kanto gym leaders if you skip a few of them).

[@BabusGameRoom]

Great point! I don't normally count gift Pokemon, but it is cool that a player could reasonably have one on their team by the time they get to Mt. Silver.

[@tyranitararmaldo]

@@BabusGameRoom Which I did as a child. Needed me a godzilla buddy asap haha.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I should have guessed from your username! =D

[@pokemonjimmy]

maybe for the Horsea and Seadra, the Dragon Scales are similar to how some fish change scale colors when they migrate to a mating grounds. So, maybe the Whirl Islands are their mating grounds and they grow the Dragon Scales to attract mates. P.S. Togepi is only catchable in the wild in the Legends Arceus.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Ohhh, great point about the Dragon Scales! That would make a lot of sense! And good catch about Togepi -- My eyes zoomed in on Galar, even though L:A released first. Though it is a bit complicated when Hisui is just Sinnoh in the past, but they're not readily-available in Sinnoh...haha

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@BabusGameRoom What I find interesting about Hisui is that a number of Pokémon found post-game in Sinnoh aren't listed in the Sinnoh dex (like the Numel line), indicating they were brought over later.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a pretty solid nail in that coffin, I think. If they're not in the SINNOH Dex, are they really SINNOH Pokemon? haha

[@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelli]

It's weird that Espeon can't be evolved in FireRed and LeafGreen, even though you can have a happy Eevee during the "day."

[@BabusGameRoom]

Exactly! That's why I'm going with the "hacked" Pokeballs idea, haha

[@YujiUedaFan]

It can once you get the national dex.

[@shinobirecords2018]

@YujiUedaFan Me when I spread misinformation:

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@shinobirecords2018 I forgot it was day/night based and not just happiness based like Crobat.

[@natural8677]

maybe the warm, heated up tarmac of the cycling road attracts slugma a bit like how reptiles like to sunbathe on roads. As shown in the video, the pokdex entry states its in search of warm places after all :O

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oooh, that's a good point!

[@kyleellis1825]

Probably also the only place people let them live in peace. They are just repairing the tarmac constantly, but in the grass it's a constant wildfire.

[@BirdCraftSSB]

Cyndaquil's dex entry in Legends Arceus states that it hails from the Johto region. So I think that most starter pokemon are from the region they are given in. As for why you can't find them in the wild probably because there aren't a lot of them remaining hence why they are only given away

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a good catch! Though to be fair, Game Freak seems to use the definition of Gen = Region, which definitely doesn't make sense overall. And you'd think that at *some point*, there'd be some successful rehabilitative efforts of the starters to bring them into the wild, rather than just in something like the Terrarium in Gen 9's DLC...so many breed-and-released starters thanks to people shiny/IV-hunting. Why can't we find them anywhere in the wild?? haha

[@hackspawn1]

​@@BabusGameRoomI think starters are highly domesticated species that have trouble surviving in the wild

[@eduardocolgan]

@@BabusGameRoom This effort is entirely comprised of main player characters trying to breed starter shinies and releasing the rest in the wild! That's why the professors give us those endangered species!

[@BlazingKhioneus]

@@BabusGameRoomGameplay. If Pokémon wanted their games 100% realistic youd find em in the wild, but to encourage being social, only one starter per player

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

One interesting thing to note is that on route 7 where Houndour is found, the other fire type canids, Growlithe and Vulpix also exist.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I've always found that interesting, too! Well, until I realized it was supposed to be a "gimme" for Erika's Grass-type gym, haha But that's a gameplay excuse...I wonder what REALLY brings Fire types to Route 7?

[@RyoCaliente]

Slugma being created by the volcano actually makes sense. Cycling Road is close to Celadon, which we know from Gen 1 suffers from pollution issues (you can catch Grimer in the one Celadon pond). So in that sense, lava could've erupted, landed all the way on Cycling Road, and pollution/radiation/... turned it into a Pokemon! Also, good to hear Safia still sounding as spunky as ever 🤭 Regarding hold items: While Gen I pokemon may be holding them, did the items actually exist in Kanto? What is a Metal Coat? Is it a man-made item, or is it something produced by the Pokemon themselves? Magnemite for instance do not hold Metal Coats in FRLG. Happiness might also be tied to a region in some way? Again, you can't get Crobat in FRLG or Let's Go, so maybe there is some kind of energy around Kanto that prevents these evolutions?

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oooh, Slugma as a created Pokemon as a combination of volcanic activity and human pollution actually makes a lot of sense! I'm glad to see Safia's cameo is well-received! haha I think the held items are on a bit of a case-by-case basis. The Metal Coat could go either way. I'm leaning towards Team Rocket "hacking" Pokeballs to make them incompatible with held items, personally. Magnemite are especially hard to rationalize between Gens 1 and 3. They aren't Steel type in Gen 1, but they are in Gen 3. They *could've* held Metal Coats in Gen 1, but just not been usable in Gen 1...but they don't hold them when held items exist in Gen 1. This is definitely a topic I'll have to revisit. As for Happiness, I'm going with my Team Rocket theory -- happiness-limiting Pokeballs! haha FRLG canonically take place at the same time as RBY, so there's no discrepancy there. Let's Go seems to happen after Gen 1 (and maybe 2?), but Team Rocket took over Silph ("again"?) by then, so they could've hacked the Pokeballs again, haha

[@SpliffingBrit]

@@BabusGameRoom so gen 1 magnemites do hold metal coats, they just arent viewable until they are transferred to gen 2, this implies that they are still there, they were just unknown(no, not unown)

[@SpliffingBrit]

@@BabusGameRoom the lack of happiness could be from a simple lack of understanding of proper care, similar to exotic pets in our world, they may know how to keep a pokemon alive but not know the exact care to keep them happy and health. Remember that the gens traverse both time and space and later games reflect a better understanding of pokemon biology and ecology, back in gen 1 no one even knew pokemon laid eggs and by gen 2 the info was only just being discovered.

[@brutusthebear9050]

​@SpliffingBrit Naw, cause in FRLG, you can raise happiness but your Pokemon wont evolve until you have the national dex. Which seems to imply that Prof. Oak is the culprit...

[@TheBraziliian]

I believe some of these pokémon migrated as some seasonal thing. maybe their original habitat was kanto but they had to migrate due to team rocket or maybe they just stay in different regions at different times

[@BabusGameRoom]

Migration is definitely plausible! There don't seem to be seasonal differences between Gens 1 and 2, but it's not impossible!

[@randomSTARPlays]

i think with togepi, since all 3 stages of the evolution line can be found in hisui, it may have become endangered or extinct so if a trainer found one in the wild they weren't allowed to capture it. the egg that elm finds and cynthia gives to you in gen 4 may have been from breeding programs to try to bring back certain pokemon from almost extinction edit: by the time galar comes around enough time may have passed to bring togepi back to being a standard wild pokemon

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a great point! I hadn't considered Hisui. I have to wonder if they brought back Togepi, and various characters were treating them as rare eggs...but only in Galar did they decide to introduce them to the wild! Hmm...

[@meganclark13]

Something that I found interesting is that most of the non-Johto gen 2 Pokemon can be found on the sevii islands. With the exception of Houndour.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a good point! I've never actually gotten to the Sevii Islands. If I'm going to re-play Gen 1, I'd usually rather play Gen 1 (for all its glitchy, nostalgic goodness). But I remember the Sevii Islands (and Emerald) being added specifically to make all of the Gen 2 Pokemon available after the "original Dexit" of Gen 3 cutting off the first 2 Gens.

[@krisrk1]

A second Sudowoodo should have been hiding in Pewter City. RBY had two Snorlax, so only having one chance to catch Sudowoodo is difficult. It could have been placed where the cut bush used to be near the museum.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a great idea! It's so odd that there's only one Sudowoodo in all of Gen 2. I think they missed an opportunity of having Sudowoodo sometimes jump out at the player using Cut (like Shuckle jump out after using Rock Smash), lol

[@lipika2841]

Oh, & it might be located close to a museum cuz it's a Rock-type itself.

[@krisrk1]

You know it. This Sudowoodo feels home in Rock City.

[@lipika2841]

@@BabusGameRoom Making Sudowoodo a much more common Pokémon isnt a bad idea, especially when it's not even that strong, but it'd surely become annoying at some point that every time u chop down a tree there's a chance to encounter it when you don't even want to.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I feel like Cutting trees wasn't that common in Gen 2. It'd be like Rock Smash...done here and there to progress in the main story, but not really needed for "regular travel".

[@hhjan594]

I would actually argue Togepi is native to Ancient Sinnoh (Hisui) because you just normally find wild Togepi hanging in the Hisui wilds. There's even a wild Togekiss flying on top of Lake Verity. Our good buddy trustworthy merchant Volo will definitely agree what I said.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a great point! I hadn't considered Hisui since they weren't in Sinnoh; my eyes went straight to Galar, haha

[@GrandDuchessTaco]

Togepi is rarely found in ancient Hisui, as are all of their evolutions, but they've probably been highly endangered. That said, the Team Rocket theory checks out, wouldn't put it past them!

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a great point! I keep forgetting about Legends: Arceus...I still need to play it! ahaha

[@patfitch6660]

Mount Silver is in Johto. It's in the Johto section of the MAP_ATTRIBUTES table. The Johto wild encounter theme plays there. Though, it DOES use Kanto's overworld tileset.

[@patfitch6660]

Also, on the subject of FS evolutions, if you had used Golbat in FRLG, you would know that, once happiness crosses the threshold that causes evolution, if the player doesn't have the national pokedex, the evolution animation will BEGIN TO PLAY, but will fail. This implies that the cause is some defect in Professor Oak's Pokedex's evolution cancelling function.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Great points on Mt. Silver -- the game code itself is definitely strong evidence! I can accept that the map designers didn't get the memo, haha Ohhh, I remember that thing about the evolution animation starting but getting interrupted. I'm going to go with my idea that the Pokeballs in Kanto being "modified" or "hacked", at least temporarily, and disabled after Kanto gets cleaned up (which coincides with the National Dex being handed out), haha

[@MajinMattPlays]

My personal headcanon for Trade Item Evolutions is that Trading just wasn't sophisticated enough yet in Gen 1 to allow for anything but the Pokemon and its Pokeball to be sent and received, and the Item Evos were discovered as a result of this. I also think a fun argument is that maybe the pokeball technology developed a little more between games to allow for items to be stored alongside Pokemon. So it's not that these items weren't around, the balls just actually couldn't store them alongside the Pokemon, and thus things like Scizor and Slowking weren't possible.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Great point! There's a lot of tech in Gen 1 that was clearly improved upon over the years

[@unwithering5313]

When Pokemon get sent from Gen 1 to Gen 2, they come holding an item. Although this could open up a whole new can of Caterpies if it's seen as anything BUT for gameplay.

[@momogames6132]

Im so glad this popped up in my recommended. I ended up watching both the Kanto videos before this one so i had the background knowledge and all three of these videos were so interesting to me. Im so glad you're planning on doing more; i will definitely watch them

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you found them too! =D

[@mies1mies]

gen 3 pokemon not frome hoenn 1: Corphish - it state in the pokedex that they are not native to honn 2: azurill- only with breading and can be found in the wild fore the first time in gen 5 in withe forest, route 20, floccesy ranch 3: grovyle- can be found in the wild fore the first time in gen 7 in Route 5 - Island Scan (Friday) 4: conbusken- can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 7 in Route 8 - Island Scan (Tuesday) 5: marshtomp- can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 7 in Brooklet Hill - Island Scan (Saturday) 6: swampert- can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 8 in Dynamax Adventures 7: septile- can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 8 in Dynamax Adventures 8: blaziken- can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 8 in Dynamax Adventures 9: shedinja- can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 8 Max Raid Battles: Bridge Field, Rolling Fields, South Lake Miloch 10: castform- only potaint and can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 5 Route 6 11: leleep- only frome fossil and can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 8 Giant's Bed, Giant's Foot Max Raid Battles: Slippery Slope, Giant's Bed, Crown Shrine, Giant's Foot, Ballimere Lake 12: anorith- only frome fossil and can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 8 Ballimere Lake Max Raid Battles: Slippery Slope, Giant's Bed, Snowslide Slope, Crown Shrine, Giant's Foot, Ballimere Lake 13: beldem- can be found fore in the wild the first time in gen 4 Swarm in route 228 14: jirachi- only trate

[@BabusGameRoom]

Ooh, great research! It's a much smaller list than even Kanto, so hopefully I'll have enough for a video...but Sinnoh will be another fun one, I think! haha

[@Mirawaru]

​@@BabusGameRoom Legends Arceus made readly available every pokemon obtainable in the wild of hisui, including the three new starters (that spawn in outbreaks and their hisuian form evolutions appear also from said outbreaks and travel from the future implying they likely exist in modern day sinnoh too, and aren'tin diamon and pearl for well....I'll leave this to you) Now that I think about it, cybdaquil is likely a hisui native for this reason

[@Mirawaru]

​@@BabusGameRoom Legends Arceus made readly available every pokemon obtainable in the wild of hisui, including the three new starters (that spawn in outbreaks and their hisuian form evolutions appear also from said outbreaks and travel from the future implying they likely exist in modern day sinnoh too, and aren'tin diamon and pearl for well....I'll leave this to you) Now that I think about it, cybdaquil is likely a hisui native for this reason

[@Venemofthe888]

Azurill can be found in the great Marsh in diamond and pearl although not sure about platinum

[@mies1mies]

@@Mirawaru legend arceus is gen 7 so everry pokemon you could find in the wild for the first time comes out of legend arceus is gen 7 and not gen 4

[@blackchibisan8116]

I am enjoying your videos on this as a storyteller and a lorekeeper. So I enjoy these videos. I’m catching up on your LP series, but your channel has been a great recent discovery.

[@blackchibisan8116]

Okay, followup on my own comment. My theory about the dark type and team rocket is your curfew idea paired with the poaching. Giovanni knew that new two existed and was keeping a stockpile of dark type pokemon to protect himself and his admins(see how only admins have these dark type Pokemon in the gen 2 rocket return) Giovanni was keeping it secret as best he could to keep his advantage over the monster he had helped create. Maybe some were used specifically on Sabrina and thus why one of the most powerful gym leaders couldn’t stop Team Rocket from blocking her gym doors.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you're enjoying our videos! =D That's a great point that only the Team Rocket admins have Dark types! I hadn't considered that, but it definitely adds strength to the lore of the "Team Rocket messing everything up" idea! Especially taking into consideration Sabrina's gym being blocked, as you said...especially when Team Rocket mostly uses Poison types...

[@jakekoninsky5681]

"Those games are not available for sale anymore" *laughs in hShop*

[@BabusGameRoom]

If they're compatible with Pokemon Bank/Home, then that's really cool!

[@DigidesteinedSayian]

Yeah, it is a bit weird how Slugma and Skarmory are thought of as Gen 3 Pokemon. I remember being surprised to see their Gen 2 sprites!

[@BabusGameRoom]

Kudos to Gen 3 for making those Pokemon easier to catch. Slugma needed more of a spotlight, and while Skarmory WAS catchable in Johto, it was a version exclusive. But it was part of the Gen 2 meta...not that as many people played competitive Gen 2 as there are competitive Pokemon players today, haha

[@oliverleonard7730]

Skarmory are on Router 45 in Silver and Crystal.

[@Erk309]

The Togepi egg was given to Mr. Pokemon as a Mysterious Egg, who then contacted Prof. Elm which starts the player's journey.

[@BabusGameRoom]

You're absolutely right! I can't believe I forgot about Mr. Pokemon...ahaha You'd think with a name like that, he'd show up in the franchise a little more often...

[@tobigrantlbart]

Also he got it from the Day Care workers, so that means that someone must have put in a Togetic (or Togekiss), who were they, were they on vacation? We will never know

[@owenfawcett5036]

I think that togepi is from Sinnoh because they can be found in the wild in Legends Arceus and they are just an endangered species that were once found commonly in the wild and have now become exceedingly rare.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a great point! I didn't think to check Hisui because they weren't really in Sinnoh!

[@berond2118]

i like to imagine that mukrow migrate to sinnoh and to kanto kinda like a cycle and in gen 1 we were playing out of season where mukrow wouldn’t have been in kanto

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's definitely plausible! It's interesting to think about migratory Pokemon species!

[@berond2118]

@@BabusGameRoom i feel like that would explain most bird Pokémon being in other regions in general tbh !

[@TCC180]

the lack of happiness evos in gen 1 means everyone in gen 1 canonically has depression.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I don't know enough about Japan in the 90s to confirm or deny this hypothesis. But it's a good one! ahaha

[@jakuth99]

Regarding the metal coat; iirc it was implied the steel type was discovered during the power plant’s cleanup between generations 1 and 2, so it’s likely no one knew the metal coat was really a thing Edit: Also, you forgot Pokémon legends Arceus! The togepi line is available in the wild in Hisui without space time distortions or massive mass outbreaks so togepi are sinnoh Pokémon

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oh, interesting! It doesn't really explain how Magnemite's Steel type became "activated" between Gens, but I'm comfortable attributing that to the lack of abundant power in the Power Plant, haha (now, Magnemite in Hisui would mess that hypothesis up quite a bit...lol) And I did forget L:A! I haven't actually played it, so it tends to slip off my radar from time to time. Good catch on Togepi! Its absence from regular Sinnoh *does* make it a bit complicated, though, haha

[@jakuth99]

@@BabusGameRoom it actually explains Onix super well though. Jasmine was a rock type gym leader before the events of the game, and she found the magnemite she uses during the aforementioned cleanup, so a theory’s going around that she found the metal coat while cleaning up the power plant and used it to evolve her onix. Additionally, *also* in Pokemon Legends arceus simply coming in contact with a trading item akin to a stone is enough to cause said Pokémon to evolve so it’s entirely possible that the items simply weren’t available in Kanto during RBY. Edit: Regarding the magnemite line in Hisui, they only appear in space time distortions with the one exception of a magnezone which is in the sky in the Coronet Highlands, aka really close to the space time distortion above Mount Coronet. So I’m pretty sure the intended interpretation is that magnemite aren’t native to Meiji era Hisui/Sinnoh and were transported through time

[@GraceonGaming]

To comment on your point towards baby Pokemon near the end of the video, I think that the discovery of baby pokemon and eggs from professor elm is why the baby Pokemon are in the Johto Pokedex, that is how, as you pointed out, the scientist community gives props to professor elm for his research, but for the sake of your videos, they'd be lumped together with their parents, since discovery in Johto doesnt mean they're native to Johto

[@BabusGameRoom]

Definitely agree with you there! It does get a bit weird though when you start to think about the timelines of the various Pokemon games...I remember that Gens 1 and 3 are supposed to be simultaneous, and Gen 2 happens 3 years later...but what about Gen 4? Because that would probably mess things up, haha

[@shinesoul7472]

@@BabusGameRoomgen4 happens around or shortly after gen2 as Gen 4 opens with the player watch a news report on the Red Garados in lake of Rage.

[@UnfunnyFero]

This was a really fun watch, I'm loving the series so far! You've brought up some really fu and interesting theories as well! :) About the Happiness Evolutions though: I love the idea of the Pokéballs keeping Pokémon unhappy, however we do know that happiness-based evolutions are possible in the wild. For example, wild Blissey can be found in the DLC of SS, in Legends and in SV.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! =D The wild evolutions are certainly a bit troublesome for my hypothesis, haha The happiness ones are especially weird...I thought the whole point is that they evolved due to their bond with their trainers, and that's why we don't see them in the wild? But now we DO see them in the wild...lol (...Blisseys are great for level grinding, though!) Maybe that's an idea for a future video...wild evolutions! =o

[@SpliffingBrit]

It could be that they just need to develope a strong bond in general and most ecosystems are too competitive to allow for those bonds to form, only specific regions with particularly easy living allow for it

[@owenfawcett5036]

@@BabusGameRoom Maybe the Blissey found in the wild in Geniration 8 were just released by trainers seeing there are also instances of trade evolutions (Gengar) being found in the wild in the Geniration four games and they Blissey is a fairly rare encounter so in my mind these are just Pokemon that were caught as Chansey and evolved into a Blissey but have since parted ways with their original trainer and returned to the wild

[@BabusGameRoom]

I have to wonder why anyone would release a Blissey, though! It's a happiness evolution, and if you were just breeding for shinies or stats, it'd probably be released as a freshly-hatched Chansey or Happiny...haha

[@BlazingKhioneus]

To add to the babies not being found in the wild, team rocket was probably snatching them up also. Magmar and Electabuzz were already excruciating to find in the first place so assuming their babies are even rarer is perfectly plausible and makes them easier to keep under control.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Great point on the babies, too!

[@dylenoyer94]

I was eagerly waiting for your next video, it did not disappoint, great job on the video. Now I'm excited for a new kanto video, I'm glad I stumbled across your channel!

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! I'm really glad you found it, too!

[@ILessThan3Trolling]

Murkrow and Houndour were likely either genetically altered Pidgy and Growlith respectively, manipulated by Team Rocket to be used as precautionary counters to Mewtwo, or they simply came originally from elsewhere and were kept as exotic pets before ultimately being released and/or breaking out

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's an interesting idea! Since all Pokemon can be saved as data, and we know Porygon and other Pokemon can be entirely manmade, having Murkrow and Houndour being "hacked" Pokemon is definitely possible!

[@philgoad5587]

Was thinking the same, but I think it's more likely to be Spearow than Pidgey. More similar wing structure and a 2 stage evolutionary line.

[@8bitalex]

Or, hear me out: Maybe nighttime just didn't exist in gen 1? When jhoto was discovered the day night cycle was discovered with it.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Night time didn't exist in Gen 1, that's true! But I don't think I can accept that nighttime didn't exist in Kanto, haha

[@8bitalex]

Maybe the team rocket stopped the day/night cycle, they did get access to silph.

[@BabusGameRoom]

As far as I know, Silph didn't design the solar system! haha

[@8bitalex]

​@@BabusGameRoomnot what I meant but it's been long enough that I don't remember what I meant

[@sinklar7946]

Steelix is definitely a native Kanto mon because Silver’s dex entry states that Onix that live for “about 100 years” harden into Diamond-like matter and evolve into Steelix, this can even be seen in the anime with Brock’s Onix that has been passed down through generations which naturally evolves. Metal Coat trading seems to just accelerate this process.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Ohhh, interesting! That's a great point. That could also explain the wild Steelix in Sinnoh! =o

[@bilis2866]

funny how pokemon like magikarp are found everywhere but the fandom considers it a kanto mon

[@BabusGameRoom]

Right? Why does Kanto get credit for Magikarp and Zubat?? (...not that anyone else would want those two in particular, haha)

[@delilu]

the wait took less than I expected, so that's nice. very cool vid again! I've never really thought about the bigger picture of what team rocket wanted to do, but thinking about it there are a couple more stuff people theorise it's their doing (like champion Lance having underleveled Dragonair because of the strange signals they were making)

[@BabusGameRoom]

Phew, I was worried that people might've thought it took too long...it's not easy to try to keep up with the professional KZbinrs who can pump out high quality videos so quickly! Thank you so much, and I'm really glad you enjoyed it! And I'd never actually heard about the idea of Lance's early Dragonites being evolved by Team Rocket's strange signals...but that makes a whole lot of sense! Their whole plan was to evolve Pokemon early, wasn't it? =o

[@SpliffingBrit]

@@BabusGameRoom I believe this is explored in a pokemon manga but I havent read it unfortunately

[@espelhodasconstelacoes]

Absolutely love these, keep em coming and God bless!

[@BabusGameRoom]

haha, thank you so much, and same to you! I'm glad you're enjoying the videos! =D

[@Casno994]

Overthinking weird game mechanics is like the best part. And it all makes too much sense. I would really like to hear more about this Team Rocket theory in it's own video. Keep up the good work, my friend! You earned a subscriber :)

[@BabusGameRoom]

Haha, thank you so much! I'm glad you're enjoying these videos. There's been a lot of interest in the Team Rocket theory, so that'll be on its way! =D

[@ToniBingi]

I actually like the idea that having pokémon hold items wasn't a thing in gen1 because nobody had thought of it. They hadn't discovered power-boosting held items, and evolution held items were not originally available from pokémon that actually use them. So for example, magnemite's metal coat was just discarded as trash (or left on the magnemite) with no idea it had any special properties. Gen1 also didn't have any berry trees so nobody in kanto would think to feed berries to pokémon, let alone make them hold them. It's also possible that gen1 pokéballs simply couldn't hold anything that wasn't a natural part of the pokémon.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Yeah, that makes sense! My argument about the Dragon Scale and King's Rock was that they could be found on the Pokemon who need them to evolve, so some of those evolutions should've happened naturally (since there's no reason to discard those items from the Pokemon). I think the technological limitations of the Pokeballs is the next best answer we have!

[@atpyro7920]

On your “team rocket curfew” thing, if there was a curfew, it would be because of the threat Team Rocket poses to the ordinary, non-trainer civilian. While it’s pretty implied that everyone is a trainer at one point in their lives in Pokémon’s universe, they could feasibly retire at any point, and then either release their team or just keep them around as pets/helpers (or, if you read kinda deep into some subtext in OG RBY/GSC, romantic partners) and not in real battling shape, like a police or military veteran that doesn’t stay in shape/has aged after retirement. Whatever kind of law enforcement Kanto has would be keeping most citizens inside for their safety (more than likely due to Rocket’s takeover of Saffron City), and even if they are seeing dark types pop up, they have bigger things to worry about than making sure random nocturnal Pokémon native to the region are still around. As for why Oak doesn’t know about them/doesn’t include them in the dex in Gen 1, the man literally forgot his own grandson’s name, some species of Pokémon you’re not even legally allowed to look for at night probably aren’t things he would keep hold of in his short term memory.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Oh dear, Pokemon as romantic partners? ...well, I guess the Chairman of the Pokemon Fan Club DOES give off some really, er, "interesting" vibes...ahaha I like how we're on the same page with the curfew and Professor Oak, though! Poor gramps must've been getting pretty up there in age, and that's why he needed those young'uns to fill out his Pokedexes...from scratch! haha

[@EternityinOurHearts316]

I believe all starters come from the dream world... or maybe the underground?

[@BabusGameRoom]

The Dream World doesn't seem very "real"...and I don't think it exists at all these days! lol And I'd be willing to get behind the Grand Underground if it had all those exclusive Pokemon before the post game, haha

[@EternityinOurHearts316]

@@BabusGameRoom just because it's no longer accessible doesn't mean it's not still there from a lore perspective. Maybe professors have special access. I'm not sure what being available post game has to do with it.

[@BabusGameRoom]

With the Grand Underground, my issue with it is that players can access it before getting the National Dex, but certain Pokemon only "appear" AFTER getting the National Dex. To me, that suggests that the Pokemon becoming catchable is more of a "gameplay bonus" rather than an attempt to stay consistent with those Pokemon's habitats.

[@EternityinOurHearts316]

@@BabusGameRoom ah I see. Yeah that makes sense.

[@2shy2guy52]

My headcannon is that evolution items just hadn’t been figured out in gen 1. Not that they didn’t notice pokemon holding items, but they didn’t realize that you could use items other than stones to evolve pokemon, especially since they had to be holding the item and be traded to evolve. I feel like from what I remember we see kids trading pokemon with each other a lot more in gen 2 than gen 1, so maybe in between the trading systems were made more sophisticated and able to allow pokemon to be traded holding items- possibly by silph to evolve their own pokemon porygon. I mean, in pokemon centers there is now an entire floor dedicated to interacting with other people in gen 2.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's definitely possible, too! That's why I brought up Poliwhirl, who occasionally holds King's Rocks in the wild in Gen 2's Kanto. But yeah, if the trading hardware/software doesn't support it, then that's a good explanation too

[@Nick_Ditto]

Happiness evolutions aren't available in Kanto, because it's an oppressive time, and no one could reach peak happiness with Team Rocket around.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That could be the case!

[@Mr.Goalbat]

Umbreon should’ve evolved with a moonstone, and espeon with a sunstone

[@BabusGameRoom]

As much as I like the Day/Night evolution idea, I agree with you completely. I especially like how Eevee can now evolve with a Leaf Stone instead of needing the Moss Rock. There's just no explaining that, ahaha

[@madmerlinsart]

Really loving this series. I love a good head scratcher.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! I'm really glad you're enjoying it! =D

[@12inter88]

I never bought the idea that in a span of 10 years: breeding, natures, branched evolutions, regional forms, and three “new” types were discovered despite there being hundreds of decades before the events of RBY/GSC. My headcannon was that the “new discoveries” are from the protagonist’s perspective, which explains why the dex entries sound larger than life. I feel it’s always existed as per the newest iterations.

[@BabusGameRoom]

In Gen 1, there weren't hundreds of years since Pokemon were discovered! haha I think things started to change in Gen 4, which is probably why Sinnoh got Hisui.

[@CopingContinuous]

Wow congrats! So glad you’ve got this series going! This is such a comprehensive knowledge base for Pokemon that’s outside the common coverages.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! =D

[@madnessarcade7447]

Mount silver is also based on a volcano so it’s possible they just migrated to a warmer climate after it went dormant Also murkrow can fly and birds migrate Houndour could have migrated too

[@BabusGameRoom]

Migrations are definitely a potential factor!

[@loulou3676]

love this video series, keep it up bro

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thanks so much! =D More will definitely be coming!

[@hardlo7146]

For Murkrow it could easily be explained as "birds migrating." Maybe they're native to Johto and migrated to Kanto during our Gen 2 run, or the opposite, maybe they're Kanto native and migrated to Johto during our Gen 1 run.

[@tobigrantlbart]

I see them as migrating from Sinnoh to Kanto Sinnoh is fairly close to Johto in lore via the Sinnjoh ruins (and presumably close to Kanto as well since they are directly next to each other) Murkrow can be found in the wild there and even evolve

[@BabusGameRoom]

Migrating Pokemon make a lot of sense, especially for Flying types. As others have mentioned, I think Honchkrow's existence makes Sinnoh a great candidate for Murkrow to be from =o

[@hardlo7146]

@@BabusGameRoom True, some birds spend different stages of their life in different places. Maybe mature ones come to Sinnoh to breed, hence why Honchkrows are found there. Good stuff

[@shikabaneconga]

It helps the fact no one "knows where eggs come from"

[@BabusGameRoom]

To be fair...when a Kangaskhan popped out of an egg for the first time, I could understand the researchers throwing up their hands and leaving it up to "a wizard did it"! ahaha

[@Inugamirukazu]

First i want to say that i loved the rocket theory, really ingenious work Now, i think that, about the evolutionary itens, there's a simple answer for that, there wasn't the tech for it. See, the evolutions by switching are about mixing of dna, lock to the geodude line and the machoke line, something in the transfering machine, one that was invented by bill in gen 1, causes the evolution in certain pokemon, but the machine got improved in the gen 2, and now it is able to transfer itens that are being holded by pokemon, this causes the metalplate to cover the skin of said pokemon forcing their evolution. Maybe they are unable to be found in the wild without some really strange thing happening, like the magneton evolving to magnezone only on places with high magnetism. Outside of that, i belive that gen 2 was the fist pokemon game to prove the migration of pokemon, the second being the gen 5. With kanto and johto being so close to each other, it is easy to think that when gen 1 happened, was, let's say, spring, with gen 2 being autumn, those two seasons could be switched, the motive i think are those two seasons is because the mons are traveling to prepere for the summer/winter seasons, meaning in the end, that houndour, for ex, would be a kanto/johto pokemon, simple migrating between seasons, gen 1 was simple its johto season, and gen 2 its kanto season. Loved the slugma theory. Here it comes the Ligma cannon, i mean slugma cannon, shooting poor slugmas out of their habitat. It must have been hell for the pokemon rangers. About the starters, i think i said in the previous video, but it is always good to reiterate. I belive that thei were in the wild of their generation regions once, but got in risk of extinction, be it by hunting of catching, then the professors of said region started to breeding then for repopulation and nature reintroduction, but learned that they are really good to be the first partners of a young trainer and started gifting then to promising trainers. It is my headcanon that said trainers bringing fame for their research center by winning battles augments the investment they receive from governments

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! =D Ooooh, that's a really interesting idea about the transferring machine facilitating the held items bringing about evolutions!! That's partially why I mentioned the Slowpoke and Horsea/Seadra having their evolutionary items as held items. Theoretically, if they always had them, then about 1 out of every 20 traded Slowpoke/Seadra should've evolved into Slowking or Kingdra. Of course, that never happened. I think that could also tie into the Pokeballs -- the "hacked" Pokeballs not only restrict happiness, but also can't "support" held items on Pokemon. Of course, your theory about the trading machines not supporting held items is equally as plausible! The migration between Johto and Kanto definitely makes sense, especially considering that a lot of "regular" Johto Pokemon are also running around in Gen 2's Kanto. My first guess was "uh, lighter border control", but migrations sound a lot more realistic, haha And still a great point about the starters! I should probably mention in the next video that for the starters, it's likely that it's something like what you described. A lot of people seem to like the "domesticated starter" idea, so I guess I'm in the minority with my "They must be out there SOMEWHERE" mentality! ahaha

[@madnessarcade7447]

2:51 I love his goofy looney tunes esque run it makes me laugh every time

[@BabusGameRoom]

Sudowoodo running made me legitimately laugh out loud the first time I saw it happen

[@blazethecursed]

People might have thought scyther only evolves into kleavor in gen1 before they knew metal coat was an option.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Interesting! I actually don't even know Kleavor's evolution requirements, and that one didn't exist as an evolution in any game prior to Legends: Arceus, so I imagine that evolution for Scyther was forgotten. (and maybe has been "remembered" in Gen 9 or something, maybe?)

[@pokemonviolet5418]

If Slugma came from a volcano, perhaps their natural habitat is beneath the Earth's crust, which would explain why they're also found so commonly in Hoenn's Mt Pyre

[@BabusGameRoom]

That makes a lot of sense!

[@zefjansen5011]

Given the fact that mount silver is west of victory road I would consider those pokemon Jhoto pokemon since I always felt like victory road was like a shared area between the 2 regions. Meaning everything east is Kanto and everything west is Jhoto.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's true! I was going by the map boundaries (which includes the route leading up to it as part of Kanto), but since the whole area was inaccessible in Gen 1, I guess it's fair to call anything West of Victory Road part of Johto.

[@MrCheeze]

Not canonically accurate (remember the "first steps in Kanto" guy?) But Mt Silver is directly north of New Bark Town in any case.

[@FarazKhan-dr5ow]

I have a theory: the war that Lt Surge mentions in his dialogues. There was a war between Kanto and Johto which made relations between the two regions hostile during Gen1, which explains why the path connecting Kanto to Johto was locked during this time, as well as the lack of Johto-exclusive items (like King's Rock) in Kanto, since trade and transport would be restricted during the times of tension. The governments were however trying to fix the relations (evident from Lance being an Elite Four member in Kanto despite being a Johtoan native) and in the three year gap, the relations between the regions got better enough to allow travel and trade, even going far enough to have a common inclusive Elite Four comprised of both Kantonese and Johtoan members. The migration of Horsea makes sense, but I think the reason for Slowpoke to not be available in Kanto in Gen2 is that they were native to both regions in general, but were poached to extinction in Kanto (considering Slowpoke Tails and Team Rocket, who then moved to Johto to do the same but then the player confronts them and save the Pokémon).

[@BabusGameRoom]

Interesting ideas! The make-up of the Elite Four definitely adds a lot of credence to your theory. I also like the idea of the Slowpoke being poached to extinction in Kanto by the time Gen 2 starts. ...well, I don't like the idea of that *happening*, but you know what I mean! haha

[@faultinourbookfeels]

12:54 slowpoke being slow 🥺🥺🥺 such a cute editing detail!!!

[@BabusGameRoom]

ahaha, I'm glad someone noticed and appreciated that! Thank you!! =D

[@B4K4xNi]

Maybe it wasn't Team Rocket enforcing a curfew, but the police of the region enforcing a curfew due to an increase in crime?

[@BabusGameRoom]

That could definitely be the case as well!

[@flikkie72]

Slugma is hot grimer? First regional mon confirmed

[@SpliffingBrit]

Thats actually a really interesting idea

[@BabusGameRoom]

Ohhh, interesting! Slugma DOES learn some poison-type attacks too, IIRC!

[@flikkie72]

@@BabusGameRoom I just found out that they even evolve at the same level

[@BabusGameRoom]

The coincidences keep adding up!! Maybe it's more than coincidences...

[@maleprincess5559]

baby pokemon are an interesting snag in this project

[@BabusGameRoom]

Baby Pokemon are weird and they only get weirder as the series goes on. No lie -- I had a section on the Johto baby Pokemon in the script of this video, but cut it right before recording because it probably would've added about 10 minutes with no clear answers, ahaha It gets weirder when they start becoming catchable in the wild! lol

[@Nelsito99]

​@@BabusGameRoommaybe breeding didn't become known until elm shared his research (not counting remakes or if you do frlg could have had a testing facility that few were able to use) so looking at where the babies can be found in the wild first could be where they are from and the reason for them being hidden in gen 1 is that the pokemon could have gotten wind of what was happening with cubones or kangaskans so where able to hide the babies after learning about the tragedy

[@PhoenicopterusR]

​@Nelsito99 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's one of two things: 1. Pokemon were more defensive of their babies in earlier generations and we're seeing them get used to humans over the gens 2. Babies are caused by human interference, and wild pokemon adapted to it because it was beneficial in some way. To touch on the second one, the only reason we don't see them earlier is due to breeding regulations and ongoing research. In gen 2, as it's deemed safe, daycare workers develop a method of care for certain pokemon that produces a baby egg. Once we hit gen 3/4, the practice is normalized and we are able to obtain items that we can safely give to our mons should we chose to raise a baby pokemon. It's all nonsense, but I like the "they adapted to us" idea because it wouldn't be the first time animals adapted to human changes and pokemon are certainly intelligent enough to understand and take on more advanced ideas.

[@Nelsito99]

@@PhoenicopterusR there is a problem with number in that in hisui there are baby pokemon in the wild where daycares are not a thing due to humans fearing pokemon so much and only start befriending them after the player's interactions through the story and side quests and that baby pokemon can be found in the wild in more modern times too like pichus in alola or bonsly in modern sinnoh or how like in sv some can be found in the wild and that an item is no longer needed to breed for a baby pokemon

[@PhoenicopterusR]

@Nelsito99 but have you considered...time shenanigans

[@natanierun]

My headcanon is that pokemon as a series is about the discovery of Pokemon. In the first game they're mainstream enough for us to become a trainer at 10 years old, however the world isn't as advanced at the matter. Like, we're the ones witnessing the discovery unfold, and in the first game we were at a point where the research realised that pokemon and animals aren't the same thing. As such, people/researchers still had trouble in recognizing what a pokemon is exactly (many people had them as house pets for example), and many of the gen 2 mechanics being introduced later on makes total sense to me. Eggs/baby Pokemon? Pokemon, like wild animals, are hostile towards humans, and would hide their babies away. Friendship evolution mechanics? In my opinion half the trainers simply had no idea what they were doing outside of battling, and the other half could be affected by team rocket who have had hopped on the discovery bandwagon and exploit the hell out of it (sort of like AI bros right now, for comparison). Item holding? Would you expect your dog to reliably carry an item if it wasn't trained? For me people were still at a point where they assumed that pokemon are on the same level as pets, and wouldn't even make that connection. No dark pokemon typing could be explained by misinformation and fear mongering.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I really like your headcanon about early Pokemon reseach! It's probably the only way to consolidate the mess of issues that come from looking at the features of the various gens chronologically, haha

[@Missiletainn]

In HGSS, the map tells you whether or not the area is in Kanto or Johto, all the squares around Mt.Silver are Kanto, but Mt. Silver itself is in Johto, making it an enclave in another country.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Interesting idea of it as an enclave! A region in Johto that isn't accessible from Johto; only by passing through Kanto...haha

[@nickgohan346]

Houndour could be "evil" growlithes seeing as they can be found near their gen1 Spawn. Maybe corrupted by Team rockets activities in the Underground

[@BabusGameRoom]

That could be the case! Have there been other Pokemon that have changed forms like that? Hmm...well, I guess there is the Kangaskhan cub => Cubone theory... =o

[@yutuberocks22]

To be honest, I feel like the Mt. Silver Pokemon are native to BOTH Kanto and Johto. Firstly because it seems as though Mt. Silver lies exactly on the border between Kanto and Johto, and secondly because... well, the Pokemon living there don't care what region they're from. All they know is, they live around this mountain. So if they wander around here and there, groups of these Pokemon would end up in both regions with little thought on the Pokemon's part - therefore, it's not fair to say they belong exclusively to one or the other.

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a good point too! The Pokemon don't care where they're living, and frankly, neither does Mt. Silver! It's supposed to be the mountain that divides the regions, right? I'd bet the only reason it's in "Johto" is so that players know there's something else, and keep playing the game until they finally reach it, haha

[@Auke1993]

I really enjoy how you look into the details of the games with these videos. The videos have been very informative. I like how you theorize a bit for all. The Team Rocket one, but also where Togepi's Egg came from. It's a good level of theorizing, while not making the whole video about it.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! =D I try to find a good balance of "research"/"facts" (as much as those are relevant to a video game, haha), and "theorycrafting". I'm really glad you're enjoying it!

[@LumpoMcBlumbo]

Your voice is nice :) Im graduating high school early and it’s nice to put on one of your videos while knocking out my math homework or something that I can be listening while doing. Thanks!

[@BabusGameRoom]

haha, thank you so much! Congrats on graduating early, and I'm glad I can help keep the math homework more enjoyable!

[@trumpetmasta92]

I remembered being bullied online because I claimed that you can find multiple metal coats.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I hope you feel vindicated now! =D

[@DaenaMichelle]

Slugma could also be Ditto that evolved in Cinnabar Island. Following the "Grimer is a poisonous Ditto" theory.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Interesting idea!

[@AwesomeRaptor21]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned Eevee being native to Kalos in the last videos comments, but I'm glad to see that I was part of convincing you.

[@BabusGameRoom]

For sure! =D I definitely make mistakes, and I generally try to be open to correction!

[@darwinespinoza3440]

I’m not gunna lie. I was a bit skeptic at first but you started making sense and this is the 2nd video I’m watching. I actually like this concept. Good work!

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thanks so much for giving it a chance! haha I'm glad I've started to win you over. Hope to see you in the comments for the next one, too!

[@christiancinnabars1402]

For item evolutions, my headcanon is that giving your Pokemon a special item to hold wasn’t really a common thing until it was discovered to be very helpful in Hoenn, and slowly spread to other regions afterwards. In real life, people haven’t really made their dogs and cats wear random stuff through history, and only very recently is the trend of giving your pet clothes really taking off. I see held items as kind of analogous to that, albeit with more direct benefits. In Legends: Arceus, the only mainline game that takes place prior to Gen 1 Kanto and Gen 3 Hoenn in the timeline, held items are also absent despite many other mechanics being updated to Gen 8 standards. So the simple answer is that held items weren’t nearly as common of a tradition, and thus evolutions that depended on held items weren’t well understood and remained rarely seen until Gen 2 on. As for Happiness evolutions, a reoccurring thing in the Kanto games introduced after Gen 1 is that Kanto Pokemon, for some reason, don’t evolve into “non-Kanto” Pokemon until you get the National Pokedex (or not at all in LG:PE). So I assume that there is a secret hidden lore reason why they don’t evolve for the player until certain conditions are met, but those evolutions, for all intents and purposes, are native to Kanto all the same. You could technically use that for _all_ Kanto Pokemon and their evos, but I feel like evolution through Happiness is less defined than, for example, just slapping a Sun Stone on a Gloom, so the reasoning is stronger for them than it is with other evolution methods,

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a good point! I do think L:A makes me less inclined to go with the "Trainers didn't know about held items" idea, especially given that plenty of wild Pokemon DO have held items. FRLG also supports that idea, but I'd have to check if any of the same evolutionary held items are found attached to their appropriate Pokemon. As for the happiness evolutions, I've gotta stick with the "Team Rocket theory" for those! haha

[@StardustADV]

What if people in gen one just did not make their pokemon happy enough to evolve until gen 2, just took 3 years.

[@BabusGameRoom]

I can assure you that Safia and I made Batty and Eggbeam really, really happy! ahaha

[@Dpmt]

Head cannon: the Pokémon League of Kanto banned held items, but that ban was relaxed by GSC. This means not only were held item evolutions undiscoverable, but held items in general were discarded from Pokémon when caught. An example of a discarded item would Mewtwo’s berserk gene. Additionally the dark type is the evil type in Japanese and may have also been banned on account of Pokemon League rules and a Team Rocket ban on their members having them for Mewtwo related reasons. This, the team rocket sabotage of pokeballs against happiness evolutions, and the lack of a Kanto Pokémon breeding culture explain every Kanto Pokémon in Gen 2. Perhaps the Pokémon League also banned breeding? Pokémon was originally modeled after Japanese insect fighting where captured insects are pitted against each other. Would an insect that is breed to perfection even be considered fair game when everyone else is supposed to be using wild caught?

[@BabusGameRoom]

That would make a lot of sense! It could also tie into the Pokeballs themselves...Silph Co just made them that way, rather than Team Rocket needing to modify them in any way. I'm inclined to believe that breeding just wasn't discovered in Kanto since no one stuck them together in "Daycares" in Kanto. The babies should still exist in the wild, because Pokemon should be able to breed in the wild, of course...haha

[@godtierantihero]

You forget that the region a pokemon is in can affect evolution, which was explained in-universe in Sun and Moon. All the Kanto evolutions can be explained by "these pokemon are just physically unable to evolve in Kanto" with the same grounds that certain Alolan forms can come from regular pokemon just by evolving in Alola.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Alola (and Gen 7 by extension) is just weird! haha

[@CredibleCommenter]

Don’t forget about the Sevii Islands, Larvitar is there! Given the Kan-Joh connections I think it’s certain that Larvitar is native to Kanto’s harsher, more remote areas.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Ohhh, interesting point! I think that's another point in favour of Larvitar being a Kanto Pokemon!

[@BluePhoenix_]

Actually a fun idea. What if Magnemite only gain the steel type, if they carried a metal coat for long enough, ans since they were so rare in gen1, that no one had them, the Magnemite in Kanto weren't steel types yet.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Ohh, interesting idea! That'd make sense for Gen 1, though FRLG muddy that up a bit...hmmm...

[@babysinclairfan]

I have a headcanon that makes this all really simple. In-universe, Pokemon are a heavily under-documented field of study. The player does a lot of legwork in researching them. The original 151 are the ones that red and blue happened to encounter on their initial journey. With each game that passes, trainers record more Pokemon. While some can't be found worldwide, they've always been there. Legendary Pokemon are just rare or hard to find for one reason or another. In fact, nobody has really gotten a good look at one until the player finds them. I can support this with Dratini's pokedex entry. Dratini was a mythical Pokemon until some fishermen found their habitat some time prior to the events of red/blue/yellow. In short, most of the Pokemon (besides genesect/Mewtwo) have always been there. They just have various habitats and some are harder to find than others. For example, you won't find a tiger on the streets of New York city, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[@BabusGameRoom]

Great point about Dratini and Pokemon "always being there"! I was initially just looking at the games in which a Pokemon could be infinitely caught in a normal area in the wild, which is a pretty objective measure. But that takes too many syllables, so it kinda' morphed into "being native to" a region, haha You're definitely right! And I hope there are no tigers ever roaming the streets of NYC! haha

[@ScorchyScorch]

My logic to explain Magnemite is that since they only appear in the Power Plant (Route 10 in Yellow version near the Powerplant) and Zapdos just came to visit inside, people were probably too scared to go in and get Metal Coats, putting themselves in danger of Zapdos' lightning. Additionally for the King's Rock theory, since Team Rocket is taking SlowpokeTails they might be taking the King's Rock to sell. Any Slowpoke that escape might be dropping their item. Poliwhirl might be seeing Slowpoke being hunted for the King's Rock that they too drop the item so that they don't get hunted. It's something animals do in the wild to adapt to conflicts. These are my takes on why these items aren't found in Gen1

[@BabusGameRoom]

Zapdos caused the Magnemites to strip in fear!!! =D I could definitely see Team Rocket removing held items, though! Of course, that just adds to the pile of thins that Team Rocket is responsible for, haha

[@MrWhitman]

I disagree with the slugma thing. The idea that they'd be BLOWN all the way there is ludicrous. What I think happened is that the tectonic fault line that was connected to Cinnabar's volcano ran through the Cycling Road. Since the main pressure release was through the volcano itself it didn't cause too much trouble along Cycling Road, but it DID disturb the slugma enough to come to the surface. You might remember that Cycling Road is where you find ponyta which, according to Pokémon Snap are also attracted to volcanic areas. So you probably had some seismic activity in the area just along the coast, but it veered off into the ocean rather than more inland.

[@BabusGameRoom]

A volcano's power is quite significant -- I think it even affected the Seafoam Islands, didn't it? Cycling Road might actually be geographically closer than the Seafoam Islands, but I haven't measured it. I could definitely get behind the idea of a fault line opening under Cycling Road...IIRC, it's explicitly over water, rather than on land, so chalking it up to underwater seismic/volcanic activity makes a lot of sense!

[@cynthiasoolihua2410]

This is such a fantastic video series concept! Really enjoying this

[@BabusGameRoom]

Thank you so much! I'm really glad you're enjoying it! =D

[@ryanbusch2885]

Togepi feels like it’d be from hisui but became rarer over time

[@BabusGameRoom]

That's a great point! I actually forgot to check Hisui because they aren't normally catchable in Sinnoh, haha

[@Parostem]

The Sudowoodo that we find in Johto is clearly just the weakest one who is least capable of blending in with other trees. You see all those other trees in the background that you can't reach? They're all Sudowoodo! If you can't headbutt it, you can't prove that it *isn't* a Sudowoodo. No I'm not coping, YOU'RE COPING!

[@BabusGameRoom]

ahaha, I love this Sudowoodo idea! lol