Where Have All The Gunsmiths Gone? - GMP

[@ckelley6940]

Gentlemen, very good content. I do not consider myself a Gunsmith, but was trained and certified as Armorer for all small arms for the U S Navy from 82-92, and then every firearm used by a 50 person city Police Dept. till I retired 6 years ago. At times I would work part time at different guns shops as long as I had liability insurance covered by them”in written policy “. I have know a couple of friends in the business suffer greatly, due to lawsuits, to work without it. I started the first CCW school in the state of Ohio and created course, under oversight of the State Attorney’s Office. My insurance was purchased through the NRA and privately obtained underwriting. About 2 years later the world changed when another startup school in Ohio had an on range incident and a student was shot by another student. Insurance costs raised to the point that it could not be maintained. I sold out the school and lesson plan to a large firearms firm based in Ohio. I no longer train or work on anyone else’s guns, due to liability issues, insurance. Sorry for the long comment, had to get my point out. Thank you both for what you do.

[@fmgpubs]

All good points sir. And it’s why I don’t do it commercially. Although, if I hung out the shingle I’m pretty sure I’d get swamped by people who are looking for help. It’s too bad they’ve made it all so complicated! Roy

[@dmowzoon]

I enjoyed the podcast, but I must admit I was a little disappointed. I thought it was going to be more about how to find a good gunsmith! Because my experience has been you can find guys that say they're Master gunsmiths and supposedly have this or that certificate but still do lousy jobs. And several of the ones I've encountered are just not very pleasant people, but that might be due to what Roy was talking about. In any event, they certainly don't help "grow the sport," the same as people you encounter that own or work in gun stores that regard you with suspicion and are anything but welcoming.

[@fmgpubs]

I’d tell everyone about it if I found a good general gunsmith! And you’re right, so many are just bad natured. Roy

[@RandyWittmann]

So true! I would have no problem paying Roy. His skills are priceless.

[@fmgpubs]

You’d be one then Randy! But thanks for your kind words sir. Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

As a "general gunsmith" that started last century I can tell you that this is BY FAR THE BEST REPRESENTATION of the life/business. You guys got it RIGHT!!! What you have to do is buy high, sell low, and make it up in volume.

[@fmgpubs]

Thanks Jeff. I figured you’d understand! Roy

[@floridagunrat1625]

Jeez, guys, I could go on forever about this subject! I graduated from Lassen in the late eighties and went to work at the largest local gun shop for $3.50/hr. I opened my own business up to the public in 1994 and I also did work for several other local shops. I kept that business open until the early two thousands. Quite simply.I had a very well equipped shop with two milling machines, one vertical and a horizontal. Three lathes, multiple drill presses, arbor presses, bench grinders, buffer's, belt sanders, et cetera. I had a retail area to greet the public and take in and turn out the firearms. I also had a separate area for refinishing with a complete set up for hot caustic bluing and parkerizing. With the skills and knowledge that I had, quite simply, I could make a much better living working in the construction trades that I grew up in. Being located here by Cape Canaveral, I ended up doing a lot of government work for the Air Force and NASA where there was good pay and demand for a skilled tradesman who could think outside of the box to build the unusual stuff that the space center needed. I still regularly do smithing work strictly for myself. As some of the other commenters have touched on, the liability insurance, local licensing requirements, federal F. F. L headache, zoning, and such, just don't really make it cost-effective to be in the business. Not to mention that the majority of my customers had a fit paying $35 an hour for machine work when the local machine shops were charging $80. A part of me hated closing up the shop and getting out of the gun business, and yet another part of me was truly relieved when I did. I guess it's kind of like the old saying about a boat - the two happiest days are when you get it, and when you get rid of it, LOL! There is no shortage of work for a good gunsmith, but that's the other problem. The skills, the knowledge, the mindset, the dedication, the business acumen, and the intelligence required to be a good smith just aren't that common of a combination. Most people with the determination, drive, and skills simply find themselves in a better paying job or business. They were about 40 students in my first gunsmithing class. There were only 3 of us who graduated 3 years later. Being a general gunsmith can be very challenging because every day, something is liable to walk into your door that you have never seen, and you have to understand the mechanical principles that make it work. Also, you have to accept the liability that comes with you putting it back out in the field. I used to have 70 to 80 guns waiting on my incoming rack at any given time. Like a mechanic, the way to make money is to get the work done fast, (Remember, I told you that Bob Dunlap made us learn to assemble guns in extremely fast time limits), that means its not a leisurely day at the shop. Add to that the customers always want to pick your brain with questions and tell you their hunting stories, which I truly enjoyed, but every minute of it was costing me money. The electric bill doesnt go on hold while we are shooting the breeze about some old gun that someone found at a garage sale or about how there just arent any ducks on the marsh because we haven't had a good cold front yet to push them south. For several years after I closed the doors, people were still hounding me to do their work. I had to move to a secluded location that no one knew about because they were waiting for me when I came home from work. I even had someone spot me on the road and try to follow me to my new place! WhenI retire from the construction business, I am considering hooking up with a local shop to do gunsmithing as a part-time business. I currently have several people pushing me to go back into the business, but I just have too much work in the construction field right now. A part of me sure does miss it!

[@66rmw]

@@floridagunrat1625 also went to Lassen in the late 80’s . Worked for Bob D for a couple years before moving on. Did gunsmithing for almost ten years before the temptation of better pay got me to leave it behind. But I don’t regret it , I had a great time at gunsmithing school and working in the trade , satisfied something I wanted to learn from the time I was a kid .

[@fmgpubs]

You nailed it all Rat, 100 percent. Most ‘smiths do it for the love of the craft not the money, but that’s where the collision of reality and the dream happens. While someone could make more money pounding nails, if it saps their brain out, then it kills you slowly. Part time, for fun and a tad of profit is the way to go these days. Take what you want and say no to the rest. Roy

[@fmgpubs]

There is something oddly satisfying. But I think you have to be a real guncrank, like we are, to understand that. Roy

[@floridagunrat1625]

@66rmw Very cool, I'm sure our paths crossed! I was so saddened to hear of Bob Dunlaps passing. He was like a second father to me. I always tried to meet up with him at the SHOT show when he was there with the AGI folks. The last time that I saw him, we talked about how things were going and then we said goodbye. I walked away but then turned around and went back to him and thanked him for everything that he did for me. There was a lady there who said, "Hey, this is a special moment, I'd like to get a picture!" The next SHOT show, I missed him as he left early, and that really hit me hard as I had just lost my dad at Christmas. I wonder what ever happened to that picture? Yes, we are a small group of people who were able to experience this trade, and I agree that I would never trade that for anything. As I said, it is still a calling for me, and I hope to return to it. Thanks, Rat

[@floridagunrat1625]

@fmgpubs "oddly satisfying", 100 percent!!! I have worked on all sorts of things. I've worked in engineering and construction on everything from simple remodels and additions to the portable water system that supplies almost a half million people to all kinds of defense and space exploration related projects. I've always found satisfaction in completing a job! Right now, in my spare time, I have several rifle projects going on. Yup, it's in your blood! That's one of the reasons that I like your videos. I get to see someone else's projects. I understand the work that it took to get there and the pleasure when it's done!!! Thanks, Rat

[@garyreadler4886]

I think that people generally don't take into account the important detail that the repair person has knowledge, hopefully. I have seen this over many years and it doesn't matter what trade it is, electrician , plumber, good auto mechanic or gunsmith. Also the customer doesn't take into account special tools which the craftsman uses for the job and they know how to use the tools. These skills are learned through years of doing it and knowing the pitfalls. Details the customer does not take into account. Good video ,thanks.

[@fmgpubs]

You’re right all around Gary. I have tens of thousands invested in shop equipment, tooling, special tools, accessory sets of springs, screws, etc. and many, many spare parts of all sorts I’ve collected over the years. But mostly I have the knowledge about how to use it all! Or at least most of it … Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

AND the $$$ and time they LOST learning it.

[@LouT1501]

I worked in the wholesale grocery business for many years. Our saying went something like, "we'll make up in volume what we lose on margin," as we go out of business. I have built ARs but am smart enough to realize I'm putting parts together. Cheers, Brent and Roy!

[@fmgpubs]

Hey Lou, at least you’re puttering around. Your book went out yesterday! Roy

[@LouT1501]

@@fmgpubs puttering is my specialty. Thank you Roy!

[@gunsnwater2668]

Nice chat gentleman. It's all true. I've experienced every bit of it. The good ones, the bad ones, the slow ones. Paid too much for bad work, gave extra for good. I've done my own when I could.

[@fmgpubs]

it’s like most trades … but guns are special and personal interest is what brings most ‘smiths into the trade, but too many don’t balance that interest with good business sense. Roy

[@cliffcollins2497]

Thank you for covering this subject. Take care!

[@fmgpubs]

You bet Cliff. Thanks for tuning in! Roy

[@chetlockwood1491]

I had the honor of mentoring with one of my best friends, excellent gunsmith in Rock Springs, Wyoming. It was all magic when observing him, but he would say come here and do this and this and Shazam, it worked. I also went to trade school as a machinist which helped a great deal, he retired and moved to North Dakota, but he babysat me through a couple projects via telephone from NoDak to Arizona and once I had my feet wet, I expanded my collection and gained skills at every opportunity. I work as Roy does, either on my own stuff or as a favor for a close friend. He struggled because the average tight-pocketed shooter would grouse about the costs, a few of the well to do in the area were wise enough to keep him busy an solvent, they understood the treasure and his value. Good Video Thanks Chet !!!!!

[@fmgpubs]

I’ve seen those solo gunsmiths die long slow business deaths just because people wouldn’t support them. Then when they were gone, the same crowd whined and complained! Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

MAN, you are DEAD-ON with that comment. I'm luckily not in that condition but that's EXACLY WHAT HAPPENS. Seen people do it to honest mechanics etc. I apprenticed under an old guy so maybe that's why I still do MOST all of it.

[@rodgerbooth1064]

This is timely. I have used Wilson Combat for my 1911 work for over 20 years. Innever complained about the price and always paid them what they want. Bought and have 8 of their guns and a ton of their magazines, ammo, and accessories such as Python sights and lubricants! Just bought a new Colt Gold Cup National Match 9mm and I feel that the trigger needs some help. Sent a note to Wilson and they said no more, just working on their own guns! They forget where they came from! Never again! Know of any 1911 trigger people?

[@stephenn3727]

Thank you sirs!

[@fmgpubs]

You bet Stephen. Roy

[@robertmeyers3640]

Yep. Two of mine retired and what’s left in Albuquerque isn’t that great

[@JohnTBlock]

Thats like Mr. Novak who works with C-n-Arsenal on U-Tube, his channel is Anvil (as in a primer's anvil).... he does everything from restoring horror-show Mausers, true rust bluing, to getting Lewis guns up and running. His shop is in the Charleston area.....

[@fmgpubs]

Oh, he’s a hoot. I’ve watched some of his. That’s the sort of guy we’re talking about. Roy

[@66rmw]

I went through a gunsmithing school , then earned my living as a gunsmith for about 10 years. The problem is anyone who has the skills to be a good gunsmith can earn more doing something else . It’s a labor of love

[@Helm-w1q]

Same here. Got my degree from Trinidad in 78. Moved back here to Michigan found good work as a Machinist/ Applied engineer. At better money and fewer headaches. So, I got on board that train. As for gunsmithing, I got the privilege of really getting good at gunsmithing, and I worked for only one customer, me.

[@fmgpubs]

Labor of love is exactly right. There’s such a great feeling to complete a complicated job and look at it all finished on your bench. Roy

[@exploringhistory5796]

I never cringe when my gunsmith gives me a price. I’m paying for a service that I can’t perform and he’s helping me out. Some people are just ungrateful!

[@fmgpubs]

You are a rare bird sir! Roy

[@Nathan.44-40]

Great show thank you!!

[@fmgpubs]

You bet Nate. Roy

[@BradBolton-wq6ub]

Thanks for this video!

[@fmgpubs]

My pleasure! Roy

[@theepicgamerultimate4831]

Thank you Roy

[@fmgpubs]

You bet sir. Roy

[@davegeorge9538]

I was a swimming pool technician for many years of my life. I was the only commercial heater technician in my area and a factory trained automation technician for the four top manufacturers. People would often ask “if you came over this Saturday and did this off the clock, I could have paid you with a case of beer” I usually smiled and said, you called me because nobody else could figure it out, right?

[@fmgpubs]

Ha! Been there Dave! Roy

[@douglint3376]

I have a w.w. Greener that is missing the friend can you make one ? And how much would it be.have looked all over for one.

[@johnnytooobad]

I've been thinking about gunsmithing lately. I fixed my ruger standard auto. I was the one who locked it up after deep cleaning it, but I also fixed it. You are right to say stop thinking about it and just start doing it! Also fixed my friends mossberg Lever Gun. The safety wasn't working. Fixed it along with a deep cleaning. He was happy to have a safe firearm again.

[@fmgpubs]

Unless it’s really complicated, many “broken” guns just need a bit of TLC. Roy

[@elund408]

I live in Prescott, I have known a few graduates of the local Gun smith program. they are working as machinists. its fairly easy to find someone to pay you to run a machine, its tough to find a gunsmith that wants to take someone and continue to mentor them. Its expensive for someone to get the tools necessary straight out of school to start their own shops.

[@fmgpubs]

Indeed. Plus, mentoring takes time and time is what pays the bills. I’ve mentored many young people and any job we do takes five times as long as if I did it alone. That can’t be sustained in a small shop. Roy

[@justinjones9042]

Really good information, really got my gears turning.

[@fmgpubs]

Glad it helped. Roy

[@kennethhummel4409]

Sorry I’m retired and disabled these days and only do work for family and friends.

[@fmgpubs]

I understand completely Ken! Roy

[@justinjones9042]

Very cool, I'm looking at making a Mauser carbine into a mannlicher style hunting rifle with double triggers off a k98 action 9.3×62 Mauser. I can't find anything off the rack I like , so figured it will be a learning experience.

[@fmgpubs]

There you go. Just take your time, watch the vids, nose around online, etc. Roy

[@justinjones9042]

@@fmgpubs Thank you kindly, I appreciate the advice.

[@jeffhutchins7048]

Check out the pre-fit barrels from McGowen.

[@fmgpubs]

Good advice Jeff. Roy

[@johnvanepps]

Folks often don't understand the learning process and background that goes into producing quality work. It's not the current time that matters, it's the years of blood, sweat, and tears that brings a pro to a certain level. Those years include horrific mistakes; terrible embarrassment, and expensive DIY education. I'm still becoming better at my trade - primarily, from not hitting the mark every time, and learning from that. I learned a long time ago, it's far smarter in the long run to pay for that expertise - happily!

[@fmgpubs]

You summed it up. I have my share of botched jobs I learned from. It’s one of the main reasons I learned to do precision TIG welding … to fix mistakes! I just had to weld up a dovetail I cut just the other day. The barrel moved in the fixture and I didn’t realize it. Presto, angled dovetail! Roy

[@jimp9241]

Somehow this video ended up at the top of my list. Very nice explanations. If a gunsmith did any work for me and charged $20-30 for it, I would be thinking "Great Deal!"

[@fmgpubs]

Thanks for joing us for the vid Jimp. And that’d be a pretty darn good deal for sure! Roy

[@scottmorris3352]

I got a great deal on a S&W model 10 without a barrel. I had a barrel and cylinder for it I picked up at a gun show. There are only 3 gunsmiths around, a young fellow trying to get a start and two old guys who've been at it for years. Neither would put my barrel on that frame. The one said the barrel threads didn't match the frame, and the other said it was just too hard to get the cylinder gap right. I called Smith and Wesson because they still make model 10 revolvers. They said they would put any length barrel I wanted on that frame as long as it was 4 inches. They charged me a very reasonable price for the barrel and a very reasonable shop rate and now I have a really fine 4 inch model 10 that is very accurate. It's a bit ugly because the barrel contour and finish are different that the revolver's, but hey, I have a nice shooting model 10 for a lot less than a similar whole gun from a used gun case somewhere. There's more to the story, but that's the gist.

[@fmgpubs]

One of those imported round-butt 2” guns? I’ve done a few. It’s a simple job to fit a barrel, set the gap, etc. and most any experienced gunsmith could do that easily. I’m surprised to hear S&W would work on that gun for you. Good to hear. Roy

[@scottmorris3352]

Well, Roy, they asked me for a serial number and told me it was one of theirs, so they would do the work on it. I thought about that and wondered if Smith and Wesson had licensed the model to another arms maker. I had a cylinder with a long extractor rod, and it fit the crane, so I switched it out before sending it. It had apparently been a snubby. I told them about the switch in the work order. It only took about a week. The whole industry is like that. Ruger once replaced every internal part of a Mark 2 I sent them. It came back fast also, no charge. They said was just worn out so they rebuilt it. I have a 30 year old brand new .22 pistol, and who knows how old factory rebuild .38 spl S&W revolver.

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

"Cheap , Fast or Good" ..Pick two of those .😅 I learned my lesson about "cheap" . I recently offered to pay a top local Machinst/Gunsmith $100 PER HOLE to drill through and extract two filler screws on the barrel of a pre-war Winchester rifle to restore it back to factory cindition without ruining a $4k +++ rifle. He did a PERFECT job and it was worth every penny on that particular rifle.

[@fmgpubs]

A perfect example of how it pays to get quality work. I’ve got cobalt drill bits for just such emergencies. Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

You are a wise man James!

[@dwanslee]

Is it possible to use an already established gun retailer as a location to set up shop as a gunsmith (obviously with their blessing) if you didn’t want to obtain an FFL?

[@fmgpubs]

Sure, if they want to. Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

Just remember, to be LEGAL you'll have to do it on-site.

[@john1398]

I worked in the trade for over 60 years, ran my own shop for 53 years. I made a good living for nearly all those years, I have seen many talented gunsmiths leave the trade not because they didn't have work, but because they were crappy businessmen. Even now, I don't know a smith that isn't months behind in work, or years backlogged for building a custom gun. With the internet, you are no longer only working in a small geographic area of a single city or a couple counties, you have the whole country. You need to run the shop as a business not a hobby, don't try to be the cheapest prices, don't worry about what another shop charges, don't try to compete with big box stores. Develop a good business plan and stick to it. Another thing that hurts is not hiring and training other smiths, you need to complete work to be paid, guns setting in the rack for months is not making you money. Completed jobs make you money.

[@fmgpubs]

Well said, John, from the voice of experience. It’s obvious you’ve been there and done that. If new gunsmiths would just read your note, then do it, they’d be fine! Roy

[@vincentmueller3717]

I've tried to get the "gunsmiths" in my area to rebarrel and stock a Martini Cadet into a.218 Mashurn bee. I explained bushing the breechblock and reducing the fireing pin diameter, and setting target bases. If that didn't scare them off, you should have seen them when l said l had a 3" thick plank of sycamore for the stock and forearm. No takers. Now l don't have the loose money l used to have, so it remains a. 32-20, fu to shoot, but not really useful.

[@fmgpubs]

It’s why I’ve learned to do all that myself. But that 32-20 is awfully nice too! Roy

[@sportdriver]

Im hoping the resurgence of the popularity of revolvers will entice more to learn how to customize them.

[@fmgpubs]

Me too, Sport. Roy

[@Wyoming_Gramps]

Excellent video. I am very fortunate in that I have a local gun store with a gunsmith. I would never complain about his bill. People today are an experts and keyboard warriors and they complain about everything. And yes, I have taken our local gunsmith a large bag with my Ruger Mark III. 😱. The world needs more skilled craftsman.

[@BLACKWOLF-1911]

I live in a place where there are no 1911 gunsmiths. Every time I need something done I have to send it to nighthawk. I wish I had the confidence to take mine apart and learn how to fix them myself.

[@fmgpubs]

There’s plenty of How-To 1911 info on youtube and the web. Use google and you can pretty much find what you need. Just start with easy things. Roy

[@cbroz7492]

..I've got a great gunsmith here on th Treasure Coast in Stuart, FL..Jeff Bootz..an old timer like myself,who's been doing this for well over 50 years..if he needs a part that no longer exists,he'll make it..

[@fmgpubs]

I love those kind of guys. I once made a hammer for a single shot rifle. It got done, but it's not something I want to do every day! Roy

[@HiVizJoe]

I’m a revolver fudd and the only firearm I own is an Uberti 1858 new model army revolver that I bought as a cap and ball revolver but I exclusively fire .45 Colt cowboy loads from it using my Howell cylinder and I know how to fix basic stuff with my piece like replacing trigger stop springs and barrel loading lever studs but it would be very difficult for me to find a gunsmith within 50 miles of where I live if I needed anything more complicated done

[@fmgpubs]

That’s the trouble. At last youtube and google can sometimes walk you though how to manage things. Roy

[@donmallard2141]

Fun fact... Claudio Salassa and Paul Liebenberg both worked at the same gun store in Johannesburg before moving to the US.

[@fmgpubs]

I'll be damn ... what a pair! Roy

[@wwisaacson4807]

My local gunsmith who I and my friends used since the 1980s died of Covid 2 years ago. I haven't found a replacement.

[@fmgpubs]

It’s hard to … Roy

[@lazybrute]

My best friend was my gunsmith and did some fantastic work for me over the past several years. However, the minimum wage pay, less than desirable working conditions, bad management and awful customers lead him to quit and now he's in school to be a nurse. I told him for years that he could go be a machinist for at least twice as much pay with benefits and pto but he wouldn't make the switch.

[@fmgpubs]

That’s the thing, it’s fun but it is hard to get it to pay. Roy

[@damcarter44]

There's a difference of being a gunsmith and someone assembling. a gun. or a rifle. Years ago, I was a machinist working on cnc and engine

[@fmgpubs]

Indeed … Roy

[@Siskiyous6]

Regulation killed the occupation

[@fmgpubs]

Pretty much true. If it wasn’t so complicated and overly regulated and intolerant of any tiny mistakes in paperwork, I’d have hung out a shingle years ago. Roy

[@theepicgamerultimate4831]

It's funny how you mentioned a Marlin model 60. I got one for free that wasn't working. I paid a gunsmith $150.00 to fix it. I guess I'm a real gun nut, if I had to do it all over again I would. It's an older model with a 22" barrel and an 18 round magazine. I recently put Williams front and rear sight g hts on it. It's accurate and 100% reliable, it feeds ammo that my 10/22 choked on. Next I will find someone that can reblue it.

[@fmgpubs]

Try one of the spray on finished like DuraCoat. You can buy a “kit” and do it yourself. It works great. Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

The receiver is aluminum so Roy's advice to coat it is a good one. You can blue the receiver.

[@rodgerbooth1064]

so pay up Brent!

[@tbjtbj4786]

Back in 89 and 90. I tryed to get the 2 local gunsmith to train me. They did everything from mounting scopes to build guns from scratch. Both told me no and don't go to school for it either. Cheap guns and chain stores are killing the small gun shop gunsmith. People want pay to have a sportarised military rife done right. When Walmart has 94 a 336 for $150

[@tbjtbj4786]

Both didn't stay working long after less than 10 years. One closed a younger gunsmith from some where else moved in and took over. He a good guy. He didn't last he works as a sellsman at another gun shop runs his onnthe week ends. Good guy does good work. I don't think he knew how to manage his time. Had him custom work on a revolver. He told me when it would be reedy. It wasn't told me again not read rince and repeat 2 or 3 more times. When he finally called me to get it. He would not take any payments for tye work saying it shouldn't have happened that way. I offered to pay the work was done. Nope so I offered to pay for material nope would not take it. Very nice but that doesn't keep a shop open.

[@fmgpubs]

That’s a huge part of the issue right there. But for real gun guys, that custom “something” can be worth the money. Not everyone wants a commodity market stamped out gun. Roy

[@tbjtbj4786]

@@fmgpubs very true I wanted a 2 in 44mag snubbey and was willing to pay for what I wanted. I am a firm believer in big and fast. But how many gun owners is there to ever gun guy? My dad was somewhat in the middle. He wanted a few good 22lr But was fine with just his fox 12ga and a 1894. He kept a few boxes of bird shot and bought a box of buckshot ever year but never bought 30-30 until there were 10 or less in the box yes THE BOX. He didn't really understand why I shot so much but he supported it. I had probably bought and traded more guns by the time I was 15 than he ever owned.

[@fmgpubs]

I too know lots of guys even older than me who just have a partial box of whatever cartridge for their rifles. Often don’t even sight it in before hunting. Roy

[@CornCod1]

I live in rural Arkansas where virtually everybody owns firearms of some kind. I have to drive 70 miles to find a generalist gunsmith. Granted, I own a lot of firearms, but I have have three broken one's sitting around and of no use to me.

[@fmgpubs]

I hear that sort of thing all the time! Roy

[@damham5689]

Cant blame people for getting out of gunsmithing. Firstly for the liability reasons, but when so many gun owners out there think because their dad, gramps, uncle told them or they saw it on a 5 minute youtube video makes them and expert, it has to be exhausting for gunsmiths as it is for doctors who get the same "google experts" these days.

[@fmgpubs]

Agreed Ham. I'll be the first to admit I use the web to get info, order parts, see how to assemble or reassemble a gun now and again, but you need the skills and tools (and parts!) to do it right. Roy

[@duck-n-cover477]

Pick the wrong "gunsmith" ...geez, on my old Savage lever... paid well, added some for appreciation, and then the guy delivered late, did a poor job, and forgot to attach my foreend with its screw (then couldn't find the screw he left off). Can't trust people!

[@fmgpubs]

There you go. I’ve told many gunsmiths over the years to just do the work, on time and you can make a living. But so many don’t. Roy

[@kenjohnson4461]

any gunsmith worth his salt will have a waiting list a mile long. A lot of shooters will bring in that broken gun that was sitting in their safe for a year and want it for this weekend's starting of deer season and do not want to pay the $100 to fix it, but will pay their mechanic $150.00 a hour to get their pickup ready for the hunt.

[@jeffhutchins7048]

That's 1000% true. You NAILED IT!

[@fmgpubs]

Exactly, Ken. I often get friends call and say, “Oh, I forgot to call you before, but I’m leaving for my hunt day after tomorrow so could you fix my (fill in the blank) today? Ahem .. Roy

[@jamesshank7918]

No one wants to pay a fair price for Good work any longer. Woodworking is expensive, Quilting is expensive, Custom Knives or Leather work are both expensive. Quote a price and watch the eyes bug out. I stopped teaching CCW and other private classes like others who commented below. I stopped working on Glocks that belonged to others. (Department Armorer for ten years) Now long since retired. Not worth the risk. The wife and I no longer sell anything we make. We give the items away to friends and family as gifts, or donate them to Charity. (or they just pile up or get used at home.) Like you guys said, if you quote a fair price, the eyes bug out and people's hearts stutter. Sheesh. Pay eight bucks a cup for coffee... ? The one decent gunsmith in our area was an hour south, I drove down to have a problem sight I couldn't deal with replaced, and gladly paid to have him fix it. Our LGS used him as well, shipping stuff down. Now HE has closed his doors. The Gun Shop has no idea what they are going to do. Me either.

[@fmgpubs]

Your story is mirrored all over Jim. I just don’t know why there is that break of sanity when it comes to wanting to pay for good work done. I’ve found people with “good” taste in guns and who like the finer things, don’t mind paying for good work at all. But for many people who just own “shooters” they don’t seem to want to spend a dime. For some reason they think you can buy a gun and 40 years later it should still work the same as it did new. They doin’t expect that from their cars or their washing machine! Roy

[@jamesshank7918]

@@fmgpubs Too often people will agree to a price, and wait until the job is done and then try and haggle and get a discount. A friend who is a contractor, adds anywhere from 10 to 20 percent to his estimate, depending on the client's up front attitude, so that he can give them an end of the job "break" and still make money. OR, if he detects too much attitude, he'll add 40% so he doesn't get the job, OR if he does, it's worth it to deal with the client. Sad, isn't it. He calls that 40% a Karen Buffer.

[@fmgpubs]

That’s a great idea. I’ve done it too sometimes. I do wood work and sometimes you just know when someone is going to be a pain. So I price ‘em out! The Karen Buffer. A great name for it! Roy

[@JohnTBlock]

Face it, Roy... most shooters ( other than shotgunners / pigeon shooters! ) are tight-wads....but every point you make is valid ! Modern guns are built for parts swappers, no real fitting required. Its why I've got Numrich Arms in my phone! 😁

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

I agree with your point, but If you substitute the words "unreasonable idiots" for "tightwads" that statement would be even more accurate.😂

[@fmgpubs]

@@JamesClark-lw6sw Okay, that’s pretty funny … Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

That's the biggest killer of gunsmiths, just as Roy and Brent said.

[@claytongross5657]

It's hard to get behind something that costs so much money to study. That scam college SDI is like $40k+ a year to go to school ONLINE. There is no hands-on education anymore, especially for gunsmithing. I remember back in the day when people studied for free as an apprenticeship, and then you'd work for money after the fact. You find me a place where I can go study for free as an apprenticeship in gunsmithing and I'm there.

[@fmgpubs]

Can’t find that anymore. And I agree … how do you do an online gunsmith class!! Roy

[@unregistereduser1088]

Because most people buy comparatively cheap guns these days. 75 years ago a nice k frame would cost a weeks pay or more. A $450 palmetto Dagger isn't worth the 'Smith in comparison.

[@fmgpubs]

I can’t disagree with you on that one. Roy

[@unregistereduser1088]

@fmgpubs A big thank you, Roy, for answering so many comments. I found you guys maybe a month ago, and I think you've replied to nearly every one of my comments. That's unheard of.

[@fmgpubs]

Well sir, it pays to be nice to the people who support you! I might miss some though. Lord, the comments are getting out of control! Roy

[@momosgarage]

Same place all the skilled tradesmen went, young boomers aren’t interested in training the next generation if they “feel” an individual isn’t a good “culture fit” for their shop or the industry. The era of “paying dues” to be allowed to learn is over, if someone wants to move fast and learn fast, they need to be allowed to do so during the learning stages, because butt-in-the seat time only worked when there was a long line of people wanting to apprentice.

[@fmgpubs]

Yeah, but it still takes time invested to learn the ropes, and so many today just don’t want to do that and put the effort in. Roy

[@stevenslater2669]

Machine shops have similar issues with walk-in business like a gizmo that has a busted-off stud the customer wants extracted and replaced. Even better, a broken stud the customer broke off and and fried to drill out (cock-eyed!) then broke off and an e-z out in the crooked hole!

[@fmgpubs]

Been there Steve! I do often help people in spots like that, and charge the hell out of it! I learned to TIG weld just for those situations and for my own gun work. Once I learned to TIG aluminum it was amazing how fast that word spread among the local motorcycle community. Roy

[@chrisl5038]

Sad to say but most of the great gunsmith have passed on

[@fmgpubs]

Too many indeed … Roy

[@frankmorris4790]

Some, and I know two smiths were run out by the "jack booted thugs of the ATF. Wonderful old "cranks", men with a love of guns and gunner , but nor clerks and record keepers. Literally forced out of the trade by "clerical error" you know, Chicken Schiff....

[@fmgpubs]

I’ve seen it too many times …. Roy

[@nathanminich8549]

Tried to get my FFL to start a small gunsmith shop….. got turned down by the AFT cause I wanted to run it out of my house.

[@fmgpubs]

Yeah, they frown at that these days. Used to be you could. Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

Dumb, but true.

[@Charles_ONeal]

I struggle finding a gunsmith that is willing to do anything but build new guns.

[@fmgpubs]

There you go, tha’s the issue! Roy

[@Wildwest89]

Most new ones can only assemble ars and anyone with a specialty can’t survive long enough at competitive prices to stay in business. All the old established guys are retiring.

[@fmgpubs]

Indeed …. Roy

[@tomspanos2880]

Where can I pick up the latest issue of "Gunsmithing Magazine"? (HINT-HINT)

[@fmgpubs]

Hmmm …. now I need to think. Roy

[@MrKnifeguy56433]

Are there any gunsmiths looking for an apprentice in Ohio preferably near Columbus, but will travel

[@krisswanson5410]

No Roy. A journeyman plumber gets $162.00 hr here in Boise. Suspenders are optional... No wonder nobody wants to be a gunsmith anymore. The knowledge base they have inside their heads from a lifetime of experience is priceless, yet they can't charge what it is worth in experience. Anybody with a buttcrack can be a plumber as long as they aren't afraid of spiders....

[@fmgpubs]

Well said Kriss. I just don’t know where the break in thought is though, with people. I guess when you have to go to the bathroom you’re willing to pay anything! Roy

[@krisswanson5410]

@@fmgpubs God is calling them home, Roy. They were here by mistake, you know... they are not moral beings. They have the patience of Job and the restraint of the Archangel Michael when a spring flies out into the ethers and disappears into the 4th time dimension in mid-trajectory through a tiny tear in the fabric of space/time before their very eyes! I have watched them do it in awe and admiration. Lesser mortals curse their ancestry back three generations and tear up the place chasing Murphy and his gremlins around, spittle flying out of their mouths, the dog and cat huddling together TOGETHER! in terror, while vowing to "sell this SOB as soon as I can get it back together." I know that for a fact because I have done it many times myself. I actually cursed Douglas McArthur for liberating the Philippines from the Japanese 3 weeks ago while working on my RIA 10mm 1911. I know I will be required to smoke some disgusting fecal material in hell for that one, but I couldn't help myself. I don't know what we will do when we finally no longer have these sainted men to patiently accept our box of gun parts with the admonition that "This is the way I found this thing, can you help me?" They never judge...

[@fmgpubs]

Oh lord, been there, done that. I do the “gunsmith’s prayer” all the time. Down on my hands and knees on the shop floor. I try to make sure on of my Aussie Shepherds is in the shop with me when I work. If a spring or part launches, they always look at where it lands … I also learned to take some guns apart with. my hands inside a gallon zip lock baggie. Roy

[@PaulDavidson-l1n]

Nobody wants to learn. Now dont everybody get there pitchforks . Its true no one wants to put in the time and efort. If they dont have it down in one utube video there out. And yes its a thankless job. I have been a gunsmith for well at least 50 years i have litarly all my life.

[@fmgpubs]

But we like to do it anyway! Roy

[@pete1342]

Nice hobby, but it's no way to make a living.

[@fmgpubs]

Kinda’ true Pete. You can, but you need to be talented and a good businessman. Most gunsmiths are one or the other! Roy

[@jeffhutchins7048]

Roy's right, again. Hate to admit it.😊

[@Brandi6666]

Not meaning to sound mean, but gun smithing seems like a part time hobby.

[@fmgpubs]

Maybe today, but until the ‘80s or so, there were plenty of full time gunsmiths operating shops or as part of a retail store. I think today’s era of disposable everything helped to shut things down. Plastic guns that are cheap, box store .22 rifles, etc. Roy

[@Brandi6666]

@@fmgpubs honestly had i thought about it 40 some years ago, i’d of studied smithing but only got into weapons when i turned 60, but know mine inside out🤘❤️🇺🇸

[@sonnysantana5454]

where ever theirs greenery and open spaces you'll find a good gunsmith

[@michaell397]

I hate double speak. I have great respect for Mr. Roy, but he is just as guilty as the next. One sentence he tells future gunsmiths they can wright their own ticket and the next he tells us so many of the older gunsmiths are quitting because no one wants to pay for their work. completely different advices! So which is it. Neither + Both! GRRRR!!!! KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ Year in the Craft

[@fmgpubs]

It’s that old “you have to have the talent AND be a good businessman.” The hitch is they’re either one or the other usually, so they go out of business! But if someone is a go-getter and chases the ball, it can work. Roy

[@sportdriver]

Welcome to the Walmart generation where everything is cheap and disposable. When was the last time you saw a tv repairman???

[@fmgpubs]

Or an appliance repairman. One I used a few years ago said he had way more work than he could do … Roy

[@sportdriver]

​@fmgpubs I had a neighbor who had a pretty good retirement job of buying used appliances, fixing them, and reselling them.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

So you get an education in SDI, graduate, and voila! within a year or two you're in the fat, baby!! .... at least that's what all the million+ sub channels say. 🤪

[@fmgpubs]

Yeah, right … Roy