Which Drain Pipe Should You Use? Hint: it's probably not what you think

[@Tony2tall]

The double wall pipe looks promising!

[@drainmylawn]

We use it a lot. To make and install with double wall easier. You can make your main "trunk line" double wall and use single wall for all the inputs.

[@cmb52]

I have a sump pump drainage problem. I have about 80' of 4" pvc running out of my basement along the ground. It has sprung leaks quite a few times and flooded my pasture before I noticed it. Being how this piping drain is on top of the ground, the sun bakes utin the summer and it has below zero temps on occasion in winter. The slope is enough and the flow is insane, so it's never froze in 31 years. I'm just wondering if I could use a solid black non-perferated "piping" outside for this? It runs to a little ditch in the woods and probably down to the back of my acres.

[@frankgrant4784]

We have in over 50 years of installing both landscape and sub drain pipe seen MANY MORE failures in the installation of ADS pipe over any version of PVC pipe.

[@greg925911]

That's what i thought

[@steventhury8366]

That's likely mostly due to majority of pipe installed is ads.

[@frankgrant4784]

No most landscapers prefer to use smooth wall solid or perforated PVC pipe. Less problems longterm and much easier to set a grade. Also less issues with being crushed.

[@junkemails5050]

Never heard of this ads, i know pvc and aBs

[@drainmylawn]

One of the reasons you see more failures of ADS pipe over PVC is that there is a lot more of it. Another significant contributing factor is that the worst contractors will always use the cheapest materials, which happen to be single wall corrugated.

[@blissbliss3531]

come to FLORIDA, nobody here builds a correct french drain period....its a NIGHTMARE HERE....darn I wish you were here....

[@alberthartl8885]

Been a landscape contractor since 1986. Always used SDR35 pipe with glue together Pvc fittings.

[@garymyers2004]

I used over 200 feet N-12 for both surface drains (solid) and French (perforated) drain , as recommended by the Franklin county (Ohio) drainage engineer. Works well.

[@garymyers2004]

dual wall. ADS.

[@chinov9445]

Agree dual wall Corrugated pipe especially up north were we live it has expansion in 🧊 frost 🎯💯⛈

[@AppleMan7100]

I would like to use the ADS or Fratco double wall products to drain my sump discharge out to a river, but am having trouble locating distributors. I reached out to ADS. Do you know of anywhere around the Chicagoland area?

[@drainmylawn]

In the south, one will typically find double wall pipe at irrigation suppliers. Dont know about brand availability. Find out where irrigation contractors shop and you'll likely be good to go.

[@AppleMan7100]

@@drainmylawn Thanks for the tip

[@whatsthisnow]

This is so helpful. Im putting in probably 60ft worth of drain out front. My concrete guy suggested 3" pvc. Im used to corrugated so I was surprised when he suggested pvc. Glad I saw this and I will look for the double wall corrugated! Cheers!

[@paulsmukalla5220]

I generally don’t comment on videos because I’m here to learn not look like a fool. My plan is using Baughman tile 4” yellow corrugated pipe. It’s a virgin plastic (nothing recycled). There’s 2 downspout’s I’ll be connecting together. Each will have a catch basin(FDM) a few feet after they start running parallel with the ground. They will get connected with a wye and run out to the culvert pipe I have in front of my house. This pipe seems really stiff compared to regular corrugated pipe which is why I bought it. I need a bit of flexibility as well. I know my ground expands and contracts a lot. My neighbor also has a few large trees close to where this is going. I was afraid to use PVC because of all the connections needed for the 85’ run. One crack in and I’ll be right back where I am now. Do you see any problems with this? Located in SE Wisconsin.

[@drainmylawn]

Sounds like a solid plan. I only have experience with the 6" Baughman yellow, and it's a good pipe.

[@paulsmukalla5220]

@@drainmylawn any recommendations for fill around the pipe itself or just pack it in with dirt?

[@timkarcher6724]

What is your thought on schedule 80 (sdw) pvc? It flexes more than schedule 40.

[@JasonWhiting-yl5ll]

I appreciate your advice. I am installing a system that I will have people driving over regularly. In that case, would PVC be better (no trees around for root concerns, etc.).? Thoughts?

[@drainmylawn]

We use and recommend double wall corrugated for that purpose. You can get AASHTO spec'd pipe for added strength.

[@Akyspiritualhealer]

So you are saying all the sewage Systems will fail🤔

[@drainmylawn]

No sir. Though that may be technically true. Sewage systems are not as complex and are installed deeper than lawn drainage which help prevent issues of cracking. PVC has its places and sewer installations are some of them.

[@AllAccessConstruction]

Good Points / Good Channel ..been rocking SDR35 for twenty years no problems....

[@williamkoehler9452]

yeah man... we can actually get sdr35 to flex a little (in a good way) 15' sections with bell end

[@williamkoehler9452]

N12 is great as well... just not stocked at our local supply houses

[@potraf26]

I need to do a French drain behind a 90ft retaining wall. What pipe do you recommend?

[@drainmylawn]

French Drain Man High Octane 8 Slot

[@potraf26]

Thank you

[@potraf26]

FDM wanted $400 just for shipping, so that’s a no go. . Can you recommend anything else to go in behind retaining wall?

[@BradMeyers-or3ok]

I have some area in my yard where a hole is forming, upon inspection the pvc pipe is cracked on the side and washing away the soil to create the hole in the lawn. Question is, after watching your video what is the best way to connect the double wall ADS to the existing pvc pipe so I don’t have to replace the whole length from the downspout to the street, just a section of it?

[@drainmylawn]

We would us a PVC to corrugated adapter coupler (female to male) to attach to the double wall. We would then wrap each seam with a blockmyroots.com root wrap. If you want to protect the connection from crushing under heavy loads, you can sleeve it in a 6" double wall or PVC segment.

[@drainmylawn]

@@BradMeyers-or3ok kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5OuoZWLiqpol7csi=yWWypiIgNwVbIdAJ

[@BradMeyers-or3ok]

Awesome! Thank you. Dug it up today so will be using this method to fix the pipe in the next couple days.

[@bartosullivan8050]

Should I worry about roots if there are no trees within two miles of my home?

[@drainmylawn]

@@bartosullivan8050 We always protect against roots. Depends on the plants in and around your landscaping. There are some small plants with reall aggrsssive roots, like japanese knotweed. We have a surefire solution for roots at www.blockmyroots.com.

[@MaxMoorman]

Do plumbers not use schedule 40 for waste lines? I haven’t heard of pvc waste lines cracking at joints from settling

[@drainmylawn]

They do. However, the pipe is deeper with many less bends. This protects from many roots and movement. Landscape drainage isn't the same and the differences cause pvc to experience issues. It's possible to build a quality pvc drain system, but it takes much more time, skill, and money compared to a double wall system. Most contractors don't do it right.

[@johnsmith-wd5sq]

I used to do Septic work! All schedule 40 for waste. Never had a problem!

[@bobbycrosby9765]

My concern with corrugated is more about standing water and mosquitoes. Is that a valid concern or is it not really a problem?

[@randyhunt3272]

Great information. Thank you so much!

[@cujo7240]

Does this double wall pipe also come in a perforated version for use as a perimeter drain around basements. Do they make fittings for this style pipe so you can go around corners of a foundation?

[@pdxmusl1510]

Yep. Its why i dislike the stuff. Those pvc pipes always break. Every time i dig up pvc, all i see is repai after repair. And it's so brittle that just digging it up breaks it. When i dig up cortex or funny pipe. It's been there for decades. Sure. There's probably a repair here and there. Or an obvious sign someone made a change. But the pipes are still in great shape. I could reinstall that pipe and it would probably last another 20 years or more. I would only install pvc pipe where i can get to it ridiculously easily. Minimum effort. And where it doesn't get exposure to elements. No temp swings. No pressure spikes. No exposure to dirt. Chemicals. Water. Etc. Pvc breaks down too easily. I used to use the stuff a lot when i was young. But it was just a maintenance nightmare.

[@frenchapple1458]

Interesting. The dual wall must be a lot more than regular corrugated I would assume. Thanks for the video.

[@drainmylawn]

The pipe itself is about 3 times the cost of single wall. Installation takes more thought and time because it's not as flexible. We typically charge about $5 more per foot for the double wall over single wall.

[@creativestudio4873]

Its also harder to find. And shipping charges aren't cost friendly for people. The market for this type of work doesn't always work for everyone and their needs. I had to use single wall pipe in my job the take another pipe the same length and cut it down the middle in 1 cut and slip that over the original line a zip tie it every other foot. Little hokey but, should hold up for a few more years then if it was a single wall pipe.. The line I dug up was collapsed in one spot and had a couple of minor cracks. My job wasn't the best of ways, I saved a few dollars added a few years. But, if it were more practical I definitely would go double wall pipe.

[@seandrake7534]

I'm wondering about lateral line pipe that way some of the water run off would be put back into the ground instead of it all running off to help with watering the yard and conserving some water I'm sure it would probably still need a pop up or something to keep it from getting backed up but what's your thoughts

[@jerrytucker6617]

He’s full of crap! Of the three depicted, PVC will always be the best option!

[@drainmylawn]

Classy

[@raiconlan1]

not for someone who has dug them all up

[@camerongallagher9544]

Basically they don’t do a good job installing pvc… 6” of sand and a compactor plate= little to no cracks.

[@NewYears1978]

How do you connect cut pieces of that 2 wall stuff? Like if you were adding a catch basin between a run?

[@craiglahr8843]

Where can I purchase the Pipe you recommend? The ADS N12 Double Wall?

[@drainmylawn]

Your local irrigation supply company would have it. Ewing, Central Turf, or Site One have it in our area.

[@en8581]

Great video? Does ADS N12 come in a perforated version for use in French drains? If so, are there any suppliers/brands I can find in the North East, US?

[@Volkan-h3e]

thanks, what type of glue it is you mentioned to connect dual wall pipes?

[@Pete..]

Yea you know , the stuff they use to go out to the septic and run to the drain field, brittle and def separates and goes to shit after 8 years or so especially if they are just slapping houses up and doing half ass work. Man can you tell Ive delt with this or what. Love living in florida where houses are built like complete trash and have a life expectancy of 10 years maybe and then foundations crack tiles pop and soil erodes ect..do ur homework before getting a home in florida , i just rent to but boy is it a sad site lol

[@drainmylawn]

@@Pete.. Didn't mean to offend! Septic and sewer lines don't have as many turns and bends as drain systems do and they are buried deeper than drainage systems. Less points of failure and out of the way of many roots that will move the pipe. It's all about application.

[@LaFox23]

If you properly install pvc you won’t have any problems with it cracking. Also they make gasketed joints for pvc to allow some flex in the pipe. But again you wouldn’t have any flex if it’s installed properly.

[@drainmylawn]

The "installed properly" part is the big challenge with pvc drains in an established landscape. PVC needs to be installed deep, bedded properly, and joints minimized.

[@LaFox23]

@@drainmylawn pretty much any pipe would need to be bedded and backfilled properly. You need class I, II, or III material to backfill pvc and N12. 4 inches of compacted bedding, 21 inch wide trench, 12 inches of compacted cover. Joints aren’t an issue if you know how to properly prep one. The end of a pvc pipe needs to be clean and chamfered. Easy to do if you have a utility knife, but if you have a grinder it is much quicker.

[@audiophileman7047]

A long run of PVC does have some flex in it, and I'm inclined to agree with you. It sounds like these guys are looking for blow and go installation, not something that if installed right will last a very very long time and possibly up to 100 years.

[@AllAccessConstruction]

@@audiophileman7047 My first project was done over 25 years ago with SDR35 Still working smoothly

[@Corey-dy2cq]

PVC should be ok though for really short runs like say 10 feet?

[@billparsons7732]

I wonder why PVC irrigation pipes don't crack or break. Even schedule 125 when a larger interior size is needed for volume.

[@drainmylawn]

Good question. The answer is... they do! Typically, your pressure lines are going to have little to no bends in them before they run to the backflow. No bends and less complexity reduce the risk of cracking. We come across leaky irrigation all the time. The zone pipe leaks are typically obscured by the watering that's happening when they run plus, they are under less pressure. Drainage systems generally require more joints than irrigation. The joints are the weak points on all systems, but cracking is the biggest risk for pvc joints (in drainage).

[@retiredperson4054]

can you provide links to the double wall corrugated pipes you demonstrated here?

[@drainmylawn]

This one in particular is by ADS

[@retiredperson4054]

@@drainmylawn Thank you! Have you used a similar double wall smooth interior from Baughman Tile of Ohio?

[@drainmylawn]

@@retiredperson4054 I haven't because it's not available in Charlotte, NC. However, I would trust it based on the quality of their single wall.

[@steventhury8366]

I know Menards sells 20' lengths of double wall.

[@hykok]

How about adding cost/foot so we have some rough idea about the material cost during this inflation period? Labor cost should probably be similar since one still need to dig drenges and layout the pipes. The 3rd option probably can be use with socks?

[@drainmylawn]

Cost of materials will depend on your local suppliers. Labor cost is higher on more rigid pipe because it takes more time and precision to work with.

[@mastersparkee59]

They always talk about how the roots will get in the joints. Well the are holes every foot. Wont those get roots in them, too?

[@drainmylawn]

@@mastersparkee59 there aren't holes in solid pipe. This video covers solid drain pipes. Perforated pipe has holes.

[@Theultrazombiekiller]

I own a landscape company and am stuck on a project. I have a client who has a flower bed at the end of her sloped driveway, sloped toward the bed. And the bed is up against the house, right under the roof with no gutters so the water just pours on it, and its surrounded by concrete on all sides and is at the lowest point of the property. I can't do a french drain, there is no where to drain it to without tearing up her entire driveway. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

[@drainmylawn]

If you can't use gravity it sounds like you'll need to install a sump pump system but will still have to cut concrete to run the exit line somewhere else safe.

[@Corey-dy2cq]

At almost $20/foot I don't think that stuff is worth it. I think I'm going to use SDR35.

[@drainmylawn]

Never seen it close to that expensive. $3-$4 is typical

[@audiophileman7047]

Most people say that PVC or ABS is superior to the corrugated pipe. The corrugated smooth interior pipe looks pretty good, but won't those rubber joint seals rot eventually? If you use PVC or ABS, wouldn't it just be a matter of compacting the soil well to prevent the settling you mentioned and a long run of pipe should have some flexibility?

[@mcf8720]

I have the same concern about the rubber seal rotting. It's essentially an oversized o-ring....and o-rings eventually fail in the long run and require replacement.

[@audiophileman7047]

👍👍👍 @@mcf8720

[@rmjones15]

What are your thoughts on triple wall hdpe? Its more accessible/affordable than dual wall in my area

[@brianglynn3991]

I have the same question. It is slightly more expensive but seems to be a better product.

[@dancampbell972]

does the double wall have "Y for connecting pieces from other runs?

[@AllAccessConstruction]

yes

[@denaewilliamson2559]

I am wanting to install the French drain pipe I bought to create a subsurface watering system around a lone tree. I need ideas on how best to make the surface inlet connection for watering.

[@drainmylawn]

Interesting idea. We haven't done that before. You could run a drain system in reverse and feed water into the end of the solid pipe. Hope it works!

[@retiredperson4054]

So -- do you install footer tiles fro new construction of basements? Do you ise a schedule 40 perforated pipe there and do you used a filter fabric for new basement tile and PVC pipe or what do you say is BEST PRACTICE for new construction of a basement foundation drainage-way?

[@drainmylawn]

We don't install footer tiles but would used FDM's high octane 8 slot without hesitation. I would use the fabric the same way as with a french drain.

[@AllAccessConstruction]

We use sdr35 for all our concrete retaining walls as tall as 12 feet . I would recommend SDR35 if your doing a basement at minium

[@user-mi3pv7ql4g]

Wow you can hardly speak, why?

[@drainmylawn]

Don't know, lol

[@osoriony]

Where can you buy double wall corrugated pipe in New Jersey?

[@drainmylawn]

Don't know, but I would recommend a commercial landscapr supplier or irrigation store

[@osoriony]

@@drainmylawn Thank you very much

[@khaledissa9818]

V

[@joelc9329]

Another FDM hive mind!

[@drainmylawn]

the plot thickens..... lol

[@frogmanpipes9561]

Get some schedule 80

[@drainmylawn]

Would definitely be stronger but still has same fundamental issues for drainage in landscape.

[@scshufran251]

I believe SDR 35 PVC is the better solution.

[@drainmylawn]

It's definitely a good pipe if installed properly

[@joeshmoe7789]

@@drainmylawn Every type of pipe must be installed properly to get maximum benefit.

[@joeshmoe7789]

PVC joints are welded with PVC cement. The welded connections are stronger than the pipes or fittings alone. The ridges in the interior corrugated begin to fill with shingle dust (stone like) immediately during the first storm.

[@jerr7345]

The cracking isn't from weak joints. It's from the lack of flexibility and brittleness when movement is needed for settling or other pressures.

[@raiconlan1]

the pvc joints are the weakest point

[@joeshmoe7789]

@@raiconlan1 Try to break a properly cemented PVC joint anyway you want. You'll break the pipe most times. The fitting will break the others. You'll never break the weld.

[@raiconlan1]

whether I can break it is immaterial when I dig up old ones they are broken

[@joeshmoe7789]

@@raiconlan1 What is material is whether they were glued properly with the correct cement. There's no way a properly welded schedule 40 connection will break before a pipe or fitting. I think you need to be more careful with your shovel.

[@kidagora]

Anecdotal evidence: The irony in this video is I had PVC originally placed in two buried downspouts ~7 years ago and I haven't had any issues with drainage, clogs, or breaks. After a few unseasonable torrential downpours in the Midwest I had to get an additional buried downspout on the opposite end of the house. A contractor insisted on using the double corrugated and I trusted their judgement but preferred the PVC to match the construction on the other corners given the proven reliability. Two years later and I've noticed water in the basement. I traced back the issue to the double corrugated crushed at the elbow joint by the drain that had a piece of piping sticking up 2 1/2" and caked with debris. I'll be replacing with PVC, gravel, etc.

[@AllAccessConstruction]

We use sdr35 pipe for all our surfaces and French drains. The double corrugated does work ideally they should of put a sweep elbow tho

[@oil_can]

Yeah, one advantage to the various 4” PVC pipes (Schedule 40 solid wall, Schedule 40 DWV foam core wall, SDR35, and S&D) is how tightly they connect to hubs, elbows and wyes. You can’t get that kind of fit with corrugated pipe.

[@kenf4646]

I knew i had found the right site when i found the quote from the Bible. I had been worrying about this 100 foot run for a month but no more. Have a Blessed day.

[@drainmylawn]

@@kenf4646 Happy to be a blessing. Have a blessed day as well!

[@bobraible]

Definitely food for thought. I am curious as to why you didn't include SDR35 sewer pipe in the comparison.

[@drainmylawn]

SDR35 is more suitable for lawn drainage than schedule 40 due to more flexibility but still has similar drawbacks compared to N12. The rigidity of the pipe lends to more mistakes in installation which cause more issues down the road. All in all, SDR35 is a fine option if installed and bedded properly.

[@bobraible]

@@drainmylawn Thanks for the feedback. Would sand as a bedding material provide enough cushion (soil is mid-western clay)?

[@drainmylawn]

You're welcome! The pipe bed should be compact and firm. The trench needs to be wide enough to get the backfill fully around the pipe (typically 2x pipe width).

[@vladimirgayvoronskiy3510]

Disagree with every word, Each owner always decides for himself. What material should he use, either nails or screws or sand or cement, pvc or soft pipe. It all depends on what standard you use Homedepot o standard forever.

[@drainmylawn]

Wut

[@whidbeyhiker4364]

Yet, it works well and last a very long time for septic systems and sewage lines...

[@drainmylawn]

@@whidbeyhiker4364 Septic and sewer lines don't have as many turns and bends as drain systems do and they are buried deeper than drainage systems. Less points of failure and out of the way of many roots that will move the pipe. It's all about application.