Which Games / Consoles Should Be Considered Retro? - Retro Bird

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Games played: Contra (0:00), Klonoa 2 (0:10), Final Fight CD (0:25), Streets of Rage 4 (1:10), Side Arms (1:25), Stray (5:15), Sonic Mania (8:00)

[@mattb6522]

Thank you for putting the names of the games you play as always! I was wondering what the shmup was as I had never seen it before. I'm a shmup nut, so will definitely check out Side Arms as it looks really fun!

[@Hola-ro6yv]

Do you have to post this for copyright reasons?

[@Steinjung]

I'm trying to remember what console control it is but I can't. What is the platform you're playing Side Arms on? Thanks.

[@bepohal]

dreamcast games do look better than ps2 games :)

[@mattb6522]

@@Steinjung It looks like a TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine, but I could be wrong.

[@kennethc2466]

You're a criminally undersubscribed channel. A true diamond in the ruff. Thanks for the great content. This channel alone made me fix my 'retro' PS2 (bad av board), and have been playing NightFire, SOCOM, and RE4... and having a blast. Thanks again.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Thank you and glad to hear you're having fun with your PS2!

[@HappyConsoleGamer]

Great meeting you!

[@Supersizeshake]

The ‘naners with the brown spots are retro, the green ones aren’t. It’s that easy.

[@Hola-ro6yv]

Nope they have to be freeze dried and packaged as chips or otherwise repurposed to earn that title.

[@Marmite101]

Consumerism

[@AmazonEnforcer]

Brainrot

[@FreakinSweet1987]

Whenever I put some real thought into what I consider "retro," a few key things come to mind. Style, aesthetic, and feel. For me, in order for a game library or console to really fit into the retro category, it needs to harken back to a specific point before gaming had the consistency we know today. Older games, typically the PS1 and N64 era, all had a very particular way about them. Devs had to get creative because they couldn't rely on visuals alone like today's market. There was never a completely consistent layout for things like jumping or camera movement. There was an expected level of jank that was necessary to overcome, but was simply accepted as a part of what video games of the time were. That, at least to me, is something that makes a game retro. That inexplicable... thing that games just had once upon a time, but don't anymore. This type of thing continued into the PS2/Dreamcast/GameCube era to an extent, which is why I feel that they're just *barely* where the cutoff is. And if I may be so bold as to say this... I think that's where the cutoff is going to be forever... Once the PS3/360/Wii era began, visuals reached a level of polish that never really went back down, save for some instances. Controls, especially for things like FPS games, all adopted a mostly similar layout. Versions of games on different hardware all played mostly identical outside of the Wii, and that's a completely nonexistent piece of history at this point. To me, that's the point where gaming became what it is today, and theoretically might remain forever as we move forward. I'll never consider anything from the PS3 onward to be retro because it will always *feel* the way games do now. Maybe a little clunkier from the age, but never to the point of the N64 or Sega Saturn. Of course that's just my take, but I like to think there's at least some truth to it.

[@Shishkebarbarian]

couldnt have said it better. i have too given this much thought over the last decade and come to the same conclusion. the PS2/Xbox/GC/DC generation is still the clearest line of demarcation. The PS5 era of games and hardware has a lot more in common with the PS3/360 era than the PS3/360 era has with the PS2/OGXbox era. Until VR or Holographic technology takes over gaming, or whatever other drastic shift takes place, the 6th console generation will remain the transitionary period. Not only was it prior to the proliferation on DLC, online multiplayer and HD graphics, but game design was simply different than what is popular today. My guess is at some point in the future, after another huge leap (maybe 2) "retro" will stop being a useful label in gaming, and we'll move to something closer to how the comicbook market labels it's eras (gold/silver/bronze/modern).

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

To me any pre-HD console so anything up until the 6th gen plus the Wii is retro, but PS3 and 360 and anything onwards isn’t.

[@OGYouTubeEnjoyer]

It's your truth. 🤣🤣

[@Hola-ro6yv]

The term “retro” means different things to different people, but I’ve found that if you look at what the video game industry considers “retro” (and this includes retailers as well as developers and manufacturers) it basically means anything that isn’t part of the current generation.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

It certainly makes sense in terms of how they like to market things.

[@ribenasquash]

Gaming press is quick to dismiss games that don't fit their templates. Retro is something old. But it's not old, it's 'retro' if it's being sold as something tasteful or with substance, which the word retro implies, the _good_ older stuff and given a new modern context. Still something of curio or oddity. But really the word means gated progression it terms of skill as opposed to a time investement.

[@deltasyn7434]

@@RetroBirdGaming I say we should apply the same standard as Classic Rock music where basically, anything that's over 20 years old is considered "retro" or "classic".

[@BoardGamesBricksHobbies]

​​@@deltasyn7434"When did Linkin Park become classic rock?" 🎶

[@Connfo]

I don't have any hard and fast classifications, but my rule of thumb has always been 'Two Console Generations Behind.' That seems to be roughly when adults go "Hey, I remember these games from when I was a kid, I miss them and want to play them again, or something like them."

[@bradtuttle2674]

For now I consider anything that is pre-HD to be retro. That could change as the years go on.

[@Shishkebarbarian]

thats my rule of thumb as well, with the 6th console generation acting as a transitionary period. When we switch over to VR or whatever comes next, i'll reconsider how i label and group older games.

[@nigelhighlands3131]

Same, I also find that happens to coincide with the online element of gaming becoming mainstream, which was another watershed moment imo

[@MysticGargoyle]

That is also an interesting way of looking at it, that all the systems pre-HDMI are considered retro. It actually makes a valid point, since televisions went from CRT to HDTV flat screen. There was a lot of changes during that time (2005-2006), including the PS3 and Xbox360 that took advantage of the new technology.

[@Marmite101]

Wise man

[@mikelondakos9723]

Retro is the era from the 70s to the mid 90s. To me, that's literally what retro means, anything made in those years.

[@XanthinZarda]

I forget when it happened, but there was a popular Japanese magazine that recently declared the Gamecube as retro, and the timing is right. Depending on your Department of Transportation or international equivalent, you can apply for Classic plates for a car 15 years or older, and "Antique" for any car 20 years or older.

[@LongGamingSessions]

If the console can legally order a drink in Vegas, it's probably retro

[@greenmachine5487]

I was emulating the SNES around 2000. It wasn't even 10 years old, but time feels different when you are younger.

[@helicopterjets]

You were younger yesterday

[@BagOfMagicFood]

I remember that time too, when a lot of SNES emulators didn't yet emulate things like layer translucency. Then Game Boy Advance emulation happened quickly enough that I once saw a TAS of a brand-new game!

[@Lyrici17]

@@BagOfMagicFood Yes, I remember the Mist cave in "Final Fantasy IV" needing a walkthrough map, because you couldn't otherwise see your character sprites on the screen [because of the mist layer].

[@Serger989]

I love making it to the end of your videos just to hear your catchy theme song, awesome channel !

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@michaelmolina2631]

You made a great point about retro being based on what you played as a kid. Would a 60+ year old gamer who grew up on Pong consider the NES retro? Perhaps not. But a 10 year old nowadays may see PS3 as retro. It's all relative. Great video as always!

[@tm0054]

I'm old enough to have played Pong and the 2600 but I consider the PS3/360 gen to be retro. They are almost 20 years old now! PS3-2006/360-2005

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Thank you!

[@TheGunmanChannel]

My grandpa grew up playing 2 up, so I guess that's retro to him

[@captainhawdon937]

I've recently started collecting X360 games because they are so cheap and they are mostly complete and physical. I don't know if we need to draw a line solidly anywhere. Love the video. Great job

[@contrafighter_1983]

The xbox360 is still a gem!

[@Retromancer_Rackham]

The 360 outputs VGA to CRT signals. So it absolutely counts, but like the PS3 it sits right on the border.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Yeah, most Xbox 360 games are pretty affordable right now. It'll be interesting to see where their prices go in the future.

[@paulclinton6414]

Yep, Dreamcast is the dividing line.

[@Shishkebarbarian]

@@Retromancer_Rackham it can be old without being retro. 360 games have way more in common with today's games than with 90s games. DLC, HD, Online multiplayer, online/persistent/open world games. Just because it can output analog doesnt make it retro. Hell, the WiiU also has analog video output.

[@bbeaup]

Back when the ps2 came out we’d always refer to snes/genesis and older as old skool systems. Interesting how the labeling has evolved now.

[@teneleven2818]

Same here. Never used the term retro till it got popularized.

[@HollowRick]

Retro doesn't make sense as the meaning is meant to be something that's new that takes inspiration from the past not something thats just old lol

[@Marmite101]

​@@HollowRickthink is more accurate to call it being the retro gaming hobby than playing or collecting the 'retro' games, older or Vintage games is better wording for sure

[@OGYouTubeEnjoyer]

Imagine that. As time goes on things get older. Amazing concept 🤣It's almost like the definition of retro is things of the past.

[@bbeaup]

@@OGKZbinEnjoyeryou completely missed the nuanced anecdote i was making about generational lexicon in an attempt to make a snarky comment.

[@Yuuretsu]

I used to think about retro purely in terms of years and visuals but nowadays I think of retro as any nostalgic game that brings back those fond 'back in the day' memories. Which happens to include some PS3 games of late.

[@BoxoSpoons]

I think the real problem is that games have been around long enough that all the stuff that’s definitely not “modern” anymore doesn’t feel right being put in the same era. I feel like around the 6th generation at the turn of the millennium we definitely crossed a bit of a threshold, but at the same time acting like we should be putting the snes and the ps2 in the same category feels ridiculous.

[@ifrit35]

4:40 That's absolutely true. Once PS1 and N64 were released the NES was considered obsolete and it was quite odd to encounter someone playing these games even though in most cases these weren't even 10 years old. I have a friend who was playing a bunch of NES games during the mid 2000s which was unusual and we didn't have a name for this back then, it was just about enjoying video games regardless of graphics or novelty factor. If I had to make a clear cut it would be Half life 2 or around 2004 if you prefer. I mean Half Life 2 is 20 years old and a bit dated visually but in terms of game mechanics I don't think things have significantly evolved from that point. Personally I love the 360 PS3 era of video games and I'm glad it isn't widely considered retro yet as it remained relatively affordable and great fun to play.

[@PowerSynopsis]

"To do then now would be retro. To do then then was very _now-tro,_ if you will."

[@mentalblocked]

Retro is a vibe, feel the retro vibe.

[@jimsoczka9668]

I'm 44 so obviously I grew up with my NES. I had friends who had Genesis as well as Atari 2600. My wife n I have them all now bit if I had to pick. For me, cut off for Retro would be gen 6. Xbox, ps2, gamecube. I was an adult at that point so I see that gen as being the last of my Retro consoles.

[@realguitarthur]

100%! I am also 44, and the GC is really the last system that I collected for. #MEMORIES :)

[@emmawagner8915]

GameCube is hard for me to reconcile though. I’m not 30 yet and I played it as a kid. On the other hand, it does fit the retro vibe to me so idk

[@Nightowl1981]

I'm 43 and agree with this 😊

[@argylega]

49, and this is what I'd say as well. My logic is that this was the last gen before things like games being patched, DLC, etc. became a thing for consoles. I think the introduction of those things really made a fundamental change in the way games are made and sold.

[@MikeS-qk6gd]

Can't argue with that.

[@autoneurotic]

For me I'd say retro ends with CRT televisions going out of style. If it's a console that was typically connected via composite, S-Video or RF, it's retro. Anything HDMI based I would consider modern. Obviously that leaves out a tremendous amount of nuance, but I find it a comfortable dividing line. While this would include the Wii as well, it doesn't include the Wii-U. So pre-2010 works for me? I think that will become a more popular take in the next few years if it isn't already. Once Nintendo release their successor to the Switch I think we'll see a general shift in perception towards that.

[@neogohanamv]

This is the loose definition I use too. I don't think of "retro" as a sliding window but instead a specific era. The era before consoles had full operating systems, before downloadable games, before paid DLC, before the homogenization of architecture. The Wii is really the fly in the ointment. It's SD, but it has an OS, downloadable games, DLC for games, and is really a GameCube on steroids. But it still feels retro to me for some reason. Maybe it's all just a gut feeling in the end.

[@BlankSpacePub]

I think your explanation of the CRT and HDMI as a cut-off for retro is reasonable. But keep in mind that the Wii could output in 480p. I have mine hooked up to an HD TV, and while it’s not full HD quality it still looks pretty dang good. As somebody else mentioned in the comments, the whole DLC thing also brings the Wii more into the modern era. While it is certainly an older console, it was still able to take advantage of graphical and gameplay advances that we see in a lot of modern games today. In terms of Nintendo consoles, I would probably cut off the retro designation at N64.

[@thedopplereffect00]

The Wii had a modern GPU and component video. It was really kind of already obsolete when it came out, similar to the Switch

[@oscarpinillacastro5893]

More like pre-2006 when the ps3 came out and was specifically desin for HD screens.

[@Skyheart42]

i like this mindset and largely agree, i would also add on a personal note that even if some people consider them retro, i don't really include stuff from era's where you need emulation to experience the full game. when i think of retro i think of stuff like an old nintendo/sega cart or playstation disc where you can pop in the game and get basically the same experience as someone who bought it brand new years ago. Kind of like how a vinyl CD is the same experience years later, or a vhs tape (assuming they have been taken care of properly). When i consider myself a retro game collector, if i find stuff that without downloads or updates from X company's servers, its a hindered experience or incomplete experience, my personal interest and willingness to include it in the discussion just dies. I will be nice to stuff like say pokemon stadium or four swords adventure where you need weird gimmicky hardware to really get the full experience just because it is still possible if you have said hardware to get the full experience. Maybe dismissing that type of stuff is bad in some people's eyes but i personally find it pointless to for example collect a game disk that lacks substantial content. In my eyes part of the appeal of retro stuff has always been to relive the past, and games that require content updates and stuff to be able to authentically recreated on original hardware just make it so that noone will care about a lot of this more modern stuff as much when it gets old unless people develop relatively easy ways to get the full authentic experience on original hardware. Who knows maybe homebrewing on a lot of these newer consoles will really take off, but i can't say i imagine it being a priority for people when a lot of this stuff on modern platforms can just be played on pc's anyway with a large amount of it even being made with pc gaming in mind.

[@CapnRetro]

To me retro means old but cool and memorable. So for me, when regarding to gaming, it's Wii U and under. PS3 and under. 360 and under.

[@Tomfissh]

Youve always got a new idea for a video man 🤯

[@stevenwarner9156]

I tend to take a two generations approach, but the whole thing is kind of nebulous. Hell, Retro Gamer magazine had an issue with the Dreamcast on the cover in 2007! What grinds my gears, though, is the gatekeeping on r/RetroGaming on Reddit. The cutoff is nothing after the Dreamcast, despite the PS2 turning 24! It's like age no longer matters; it's getting so silly but the moderators want to seemingly fossilise the sub so you are forced to use individual subs for each 6th gen console. It's ridiculous.

[@SleepyGlobe-ic5do]

Games I played as a kid in the 90s are the only retro games in my book. Retro is a personal thing.

[@jgaitan6286]

Love your videos man! Keep it up

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Thank you!

[@jjkehrley]

I was born in '84. I think of retro as early PS2 and below. I feel like modern gaming began to pick up in the mid to late life of the PS2. 🤟😎🤙

[@excessivedetailgaming]

I'm one of those dictionary geeks who insists retro is modern games that capture the essence of old games, so Shovel Knight, Sonic Mania, Tunic, Streets Of Rage 4 etc. this is a useful distinction for me because I play mainly modern retro indie games on PS5 and Steam. What most people call "retro", I compromise and call "classic" games. I don't have a definite cut off, but I agree the Dreamcast is a solid option. I feel that is when games shifted in design mentality. I personally think of everything up to and including the PSOne, SEGA Saturn, and Gameboy Advance to be classic games. While I consider N64, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube to be the "transition" period. Then everything after PS3 and Xbox 360, I consider modern gaming. I think the change in online connectivity is the largest difference between modern and classic games.

[@Moulinoski]

I’m definitely in camp “all video games are video games, old or new”. I never stopped playing old games and I never stopped playing newer games either. I do find myself gravitating more towards SNES and Gameboy which are the main consoles that I played growing up.

[@005AGIMA]

Always love your videos. Love the fact the even in your intro you cover so many different sides of the argument. For me, if asked, I lean on the dictionary definition. But in general conversation, it's anything 30ish years old. Nostalgia is a separate topic imho, even though that is the driving factor for my own collecting habits.

[@RetroBirdGaming]

I appreciate you saying that. I always try to look at things from all sides :)

[@KaneAsIAm]

I really liked this discussion, RB!

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Glad you did!

[@Shishkebarbarian]

I have given this topic a lot of thought over the years. Retro gaming and collecting has been my hobby for over 20yrs and i've been gaming since the NES days. The most important thing to establish, is that "retro" is the opposite of "modern" (as it pertains to gaming labels). As game design evolves and changes, so does what is "modern" and what is "retro". It's a sliding scale not defined by a number of years, but by what has occurred during those years. Even as early as '96-97 fans have been calling the NES retro, even though the last NES game came out in '95. The 2600 has been called retro even before then and before the 90s were up, the SNES/Genesis were in that same boat. This is because the state of "modern" gaming changed so drastically in the late 90s that they became a distinctly different experience than the SNES, NES etc. Yes, even the SNES was considered retro before the 90s were over. Today, modern gaming is defined, generally speaking, by HD graphics and online connectivity as well as many less tangible and not as easy to identify developments in game design. While the 3D of the PSX, N64 & DC set the new standard in the mid-late 90s, HD graphics, Online Multiplayer, DLC, persistent & open worlds rebaselined modern gaming in the mid-late 2000s. The consoles that released around 2000 (DC, PS2, Xbox, Gamecube) served as a transition between what came before and what will come after. Many standard features today were just being experimented with during that generation. This is similar to how the PSX & Saturn helped transition us from the 2D game design and mechanics of the early 90s to the modern era of 3D. So, where does that bring us today to what is the end of retro and beginning of modern? Well, the PS2/Xbox/GC/DC generation is still the clearest line of demarcation. The PS5 era of games and hardware has a lot more in common with the PS3/360 era than the PS3/360 era has with the PS2/OGXbox era. Until VR or Holographic technology takes over gaming, or whatever other drastic shift takes place, the 6th console generation will remain the transitionary period. My guess is at some point in the future "retro" will stop being a useful label in gaming, and we'll move to something closer to how the comicbook market labels it's eras (gold/silver/bronze/modern). As for me, i like to just say I'm into 90s gaming instead of saying retro.

[@Nokia3310do]

I'm on the 'let's just call them games' side of the discussion. That said, I like how the 'retro' scene has lots of different sub-scenes that are passionate about what they do. Arcades, new products, emulation, homebrew, translations, hacks and, of course, collecting too. It doesn't need the 'retro' label to be its identity but the label serves a purpose. People know what it means, even if they disagree about the newer things that qualify.

[@B16CXHatch]

My dad and I had a conversation the other day about something similar. We were talking about our perception of how old things are have really shifted in the last 20-30 years. We were primarily talking about car design but it spilled over into other things such as computers. Things progressed so rapidly on up into the 90's and maybe even the early 2000's but then slowed down. Used to, a 10 year old car was considered quite old. Now, not so much. Same with computers. Used to, a 5 year old computer was old. Now, the computer I built 5 years ago would still be considered a decent gaming PC (Ryzen 7 3800X, RTX 2080 Super). Now, that CPU is in a PC I built for my dad and is WAY overpowered for the use case. A lot of this applies to games to me. There were such rapid changes and improvements to games, I would say, up until the HD era. Things started to slow down after that, even on PC. For me, I consider anything pre-HDMI to be "retro" as far as consoles are concerned. But still, systems with HDMI started coming out almost 20 years ago, which is sorta my point. I and many other people would certainly not consider Battlefield 3 to be retro, but it came out 13 years ago. That's a pretty old game to be honest.

[@AtariTom2X00]

I'm in my early 30s, and started collecting Atari 2600 games in middle school because I wanted to experience the multiple decades worth of gaming history that I had missed as a kid, and Atari games were the cheapest starting point for retro collecting at the time. I've developed to be sort of an all-around gamer, though quick-play arcade style games are my favorites because they're easy to find time for nowadays. Atari 2600 games are my go-to most of the time, though I'll also play most anything with retro styling that replicates that sort of feel, or the feel of any other older game systems that I missed out on as a kid. I also love game compilations and re-releases of games that I've only heard of through research. I guess you could say that I don't usually have a well-defined cut-off for what's retro in terms of actual age. It's all about the feel for me. However, I guess if I have to have one, I would say maybe after the PS1, N64 and Dreamcast. After that, game genres had been well-defined for a long time and games had reached their modern flow. Graphics are a step down from the next generation, yes, but games start to feel properly modern to me at the PS2, GameCube and Xbox. Of course, in terms of modern games with retro style, they get a guest pass to the retro label for me. Like I said, to me it's all about the game feel.

[@erikjohanson3929]

In regards to years, 15 is the one I have heard as the retro cutoff point. Anf is the one I use myself.

[@Ek70R]

You save my life one friday at a time man!

[@fondofpeace]

I’m a 25 years old and older makes it retro, but obviously, there are many games that old that still feel contemporary.

[@Olssondude]

Strongly agree with the comments around time being different when you are younger. I think that warps everything for the individual. For me anything before I was the age of around 12 feels retro.

[@lewisrodriguezespigares3325]

Some days ago me and my friends had this same conversation... and after 30 min we weren't able to agree 😂. But we certainly enjoyed the talk, because we started to give names and names in the examples and all them were good memories ❤.

[@CaptEvangelion]

Ah yes, sitting down for my 2 favorite Friday treats. Retrobird and cheesecake :)

[@MonkeyBall2453]

I’d argue the cut-off is currently the GameCube/Dreamcast/Xbox/PS2 era. I graduated high school in 2002, so that was the last generation of games that I enjoyed with what was left of my dwindling sense of childhood wonder and the one I’m perhaps most nostalgic for (plus I think you could argue it had the best game library of any generation).

[@Heru3005]

I think its most useful to look at differences in game design over time. I don't think anyone would argue that 8-bit games aren't retro. Fundamentally 8 and 16 bit games (and 32-bit to a lesser extent) followed similar design philosophy, so by definition they would all be retro as well. Most of the design philosophy during the fifth and much of the sixth generations of consoles is considered antiquated nowadays as well. So it wouldn't be a stretch to include those generations either. Since the late sixth-gen design has largely stagnated so going forward its going to get harder and harder to differentiate. To a point that "retro" as a moniker may very well become antiquated in it's own right. Oh, the irony.

[@shelby_snake]

I think it might make sense to break the game industry down into different eras marked by significant events. I generally draw the retro/classic era distinction at the wide spread introduction of HDMI.

[@ProjectionProjects2.7182]

I think my issue with the whole "Retro starts at X console and stops at Y console" logic is that this is all relative. We may see something like the 3DS or Wii as relatively new now, but we cant even imagine what gaming will be like 20 to 30 years from now. Maybe those consoles will look the same way we see the N64 and PS1 now. This is why I subscribe to the idea of it being based on how much time has passed before something is considered Retro as it just keeps things consistent.

[@victorgagnon5929]

To each their own, I admit my bias, but even though I've enjoyed many games since, once SEGA was no longer a major player in the video game console/hardware biz, the industry lost some of its..."innocence" for lack of a better term. That's the cutoff for me. For context, I am an old (born in Nov'76) SEGA fan. Thanks for yet another swell video, RB!

[@burtonvigil3481]

I want to play Dantes inferno on PS3 or Xbox. In my mind if I play or want a game, that makes it retro.

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

For me the Line between RETRO and MODERN Gaming is around the Millenium.. But not cause it is a fixed year I chose, but because the Medium on which DVD released Games started. So everything BEFORE PS2 is per Definition RETRO, everything after is "MODERN" , with the Gamecube and Switch being something in between due to their outdated and custom Storage Tech(Mini Disc and Cartridge)

[@trevorwiant8838]

I think the type of video signal used to play a given console is a very concrete way to mark the cutoff. In that sense I think the jump from analog video (RF, Composite, S-Video, Component) to digital video (HDMI, Display Port) is a nice clear delineation. That said, I think what is widely considered “retro” now is quickly sliding more into “vintage” territory. Or, perhaps more honestly, you and I are sliding into vintage territory. See you on the other side!

[@ScottAskins-t3n]

Retro to me started with the Commodore Vic-20, I had Gorf, and Buck Rogers Planet of Zoom in cartridge form and the rest of the games I had to spend hours typing code to play them. If I had one syntax error I would have to re-type the whole code again. LoL

[@lorensims4846]

I never played video games "as a kid." I was in high school when I played Computer Space in a pop-up pinball arcade tent at the state fair. I say "retro" means "before the 'video game crash of 1983." Yeah, I am and have always been All About ATARI, The guys who first populated the video game arcades and the living rooms. My favorite game controller is still the CX40 Joystick controller. Who needs anything more complicated?

[@asdfxcvbn746]

u gotta be like 60 right?

[@Trancymind]

It is called museum retro.

[@paulclinton6414]

You wouldn't include Nes, Genesis and SNES? Also though they decreased in number, arcade machines where everywhere into the 16-bit era and made a strong come back in the early 90s. But yeah, the Golden Era produced the most fun games.

[@lorensims4846]

@@paulclinton6414 I really don't know from Nintendo, Sega, Sony or Microsoft. By "the early '90s" I was all about computer programming and desktop publishing. I just pay any attention to games anymore.

[@MetalTiger88]

so right now i would say that the ps3, wii and xbox360 are retro by now. they are already two generations behind and are 18-19 years old by now. but it really depends when you where born, wich consoles you grew up with and have a lot of memories with. i was already 20years old when these systems launched, but my coworker wich was born in 2006 had one as a child. oh and do you remember 20 years ago?... that was in the 80´s right? NO! it actually was the year 2004, oh and those "90´s" everyone is talking about are actually in their 30´s right now... time flies :D

[@MikeVance-d4j]

@RetroBirdGaming you should do a video about which console owned a particular decade. I was thinking the 90s would be the best since the technology changed so rapidly, and it would be a great way to compare systems that don't normally get lumped together, such as the Genesis, OG Game Boy, PS1, and N64.

[@pixelbrolee]

I don't particularly mind anyone labeling retro as whatever they're comfortable with. I tend to throw my label at things that are a couple of generations back or at least not readily available new at retail stores. Of course, this doesn't fit everything, but it's a decent rule of thumb for me as someone who enjoys the label retrogamer. Ps3 retro? Sure. Wii U? Sure. I like what you said about the stakes: there's not a lot riding on this outside pride haha I love your content, dude. Keep it up!

[@Zion767318]

I enjoy your brand of humour and keep making videos on the games & systems of yore. 😀👍👍

[@carlataylor9924]

I came for the retro video games and stayed for retro bird slapping himself and making funny faces and comments You rock retro bird 🐦

[@RetroBirdGaming]

Thanks for watching! YOU rock!

[@mekman4]

Great Stuff, as always!

[@robintst]

Genesis/SNES/TG16 and back is retro for me. The jump to 3D with the PSX/N64/Saturn was the transitional step that led to the post-2000 modern era stuff which has then continued to where we're at now with this 30-ish year long march towards every-increasing hyperrealism.

[@princessnodak]

I am flexible with what's considered retro, but my general rule is pre-memory card when there wasn't very many games that you could save, you had to beat them in a sitting or leave the console on

[@evan7123456]

For me, if it was intended to be played on a CRT, then it's retro. In a few years, there will be a later retro category for HD games that had physical releases (or at least, were of the era where physical releases were common). For context, I'm nearing 50.

[@scollurio]

It’s simple - the feeling of something being retro always involves nostalgia - I.e. having played it as a kid or teen. So roughly a generation (people not consoles). So 20-25 years feels about right to me!

[@gabbothegiver]

Why do you always make laugh sooo much? U rule, great video

[@pheria]

I mostly go by "when the system isn't supported/created anymore". Wii U I would now consider retro (and it went there more quickly than most), but not the PS4. So I lump a lot of things into 'retro' fairly quickly. It also aligns generally with "what most people don't care about anymore", when it falls into old/niche/ and out of the mainstream. I know it's a bit subjective too because some systems are sold for a much longer time in some countries, and you could say old systems are still getting 'new' games. You can poke technical holes in the argument easily (or just disagree, of course), but I think the intent is still fairly well defined. Works for me anyway :3

[@Totavier]

I would prefer the Retro being 10 years old or more and Vintage 25 years old or more. I prefer to call the NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, PS1 or the Dreamcast as "Vintages consoles" instead of Retro, no idea why?, but it sounds better. While the other ones released after 2000 until 2014 (well until the next year) I call them Retro consoles.

[@AxiomofDiscord]

I like the term vintage currently I say 9th = current gen 8th = last gen 7-6th retro 5-4 vintage 3-2 antique 1 ancient or primordial games. (Still kinda blows my mind we count this as a generation of video games).

[@3dmarth]

I'm going to grudgingly include 6th gen: composite video was ubiquitous, online was not, and these consoles are all roughly 25 years old now. But even so, it feels a bit wrong, whenever I see how slick some of those games still look, and how well they still play! It's so strange to remember how the NES was viewed as _super old_ in the '00s and even '90s. I distinctly remember playing NES games and getting comments on how it was weird to play something so archaic, despite these games being less than 20 years old at the time!

[@pokemonduck]

A 15-20 year cutoff date for me seems right. History also uses 20 years for something to be considered history, so it checks out :D

[@Minx420]

In my personal opinion I think retro games are anything from arcade up until the end of the ps1. Once GameCube and ps2 came we started entering middle ground and modern gaming is anything with an hdmi so from Xbox 360 and up.

[@VidX5]

20 years sounds about right to me.

[@Trancymind]

For me is 25 years. 25 years= 1 generation.

[@duff0120]

Nintendo Ds came out in 2004, so its retro now

[@pokemonduck]

@@duff0120 true

[@CathrineMacNiel]

@@duff0120 the NDS totally fits the retro vibe. It didn't even had a control stick, yet tried its best with Metroid Prime Hunters and Mario 64 DS.

[@TheGunmanChannel]

7th gen can't be reteo, its definitely modern gaming, like HD and all that,im not even sure i would class 6th gen as retro. So I would maybe say the cut off is the year 2,000? What do you guys reckon?

[@Nightowl1981]

I still play my PS2 and for me personally, I don't consider it to be retro...😊

[@SomeOrangeCat]

I think in this day and age, anything made before HD was standard could be considered retro.

[@rotallyPumpered]

I don't really use the term, preferring the less nuanced "old games", but I think if there's a hard distinction, it's more in the popularity of design trends than the age of the console. Games with limited lives, fixed camera angles or lack the ability to save feel much more "retro" than a lot of even older games, particularly when they're not a deliberate throwback. Silent Scope 2 and Grand Theft Auto 3 came out within a month of each other, and they feel representative of entirely different eras.

[@mattb6522]

Good video! It is always hard to say what exactly is "retro". I say if the console is old enough to drink, it's probably "retro"! 😅

[@justinbremer2281]

I would say it's a sliding scale of gray areas, kind of incorporating all of the various points you made into one great subjective soup. I was already thinking of myself as "retrogaming" in the late 90's/early 2K's when people were selling off their 8- and 16-bit games to get the new wave of 64-bit stuff. I was jazzed to get the chance to play That One Game I'd Been Meaning To, and for only like five bucks!!

[@panziei]

id consider anything without hdmi retro because its a hassle to get it to look good

[@fedoraman4937]

after 21 years. a game becomes retro when it is old enough to drink

[@christophersaladino6697]

Nice vid Retro, you always kick ass with your topics and put a smile on my face brother. Keep it em coming my friend 💯💯💯🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻

[@klocks2543]

Dawn of War is 20 years old?! My original boxes have been patiently awaiting this moment from within their storage container. Time to see that beautiful shelf again! When I started paying attention to retro, I remember commentary from other KZbinrs 7-8 years ago when it felt like there were just a few content creators making videos about retro gaming. They'd say things like, get ready for when this next generation graduates and gets some pocket money from their first job, Gen 5 and 6 prices will double! But it didn't take a full 20 years for their prices to double/triple. The number of dedicated retro gaming youtubers felt small then. Now the number of voices has skyrocketed. Then there was an explosion of "collectibles" during and after covid. And we actively live the pressures of a digital future: server closures, digital only consoles, live-service games, and more. All this seems to be accelerating the answer to, what is retro? But I also think the question blurs the lines with a broader question of uncertainty with media ownership.

[@yujiro424]

For me, it's basically two generations back is retro. I didn't have the same feelings I generally associate with "retro games" these days towards NES games until the ps1 came out. Nowadays, my feelings towards ps3, 360, and Wii games are aligned with the other older systems.

[@anemicmangoes9763]

I live for the banana cameo. Please keep it up.

[@Ada08]

as someone who was a kid during the wii/ps3/xbox 360 era, i’d personally consider anything before that to be retro (so ps2/xbox/gamecube and older)

[@PinkoKane]

Retro has a definition already. So whatever games fit that description.

[@yvendous]

Personally I find Wii/PS3/xbox360 to be my retro cutoff because of the video formatting. It was also where graphical fidelity made its last huge jump and I haven't cared about graphics since then.

[@johntuel2375]

2:26 I was literally thinking in my head that 20 years sounds like a good cut off time for it to be considered retro.

[@articex]

What is this man's banana budget lmao

[@nealdavis7276]

As a general rule for just myself personally, I generally define retro as “old enough to be on a cartridge.” It’s not a perfect definition, but it generally works for me.

[@mjdf122]

I’ve seen and have all from 1980-Now every console and tons of games Everything is retro except for PS5/Xbox X/S Switch and maybe PS4/Xbox One since they’re still making games for them but I consider all others retro

[@8bitboss929]

I’ve never been big on labeling things but I pretty much consider anything that is not supported by the company manufacturing it anymore as retro. For example, I think PS4 and 5 are current GEN, because they’re still actively putting out games for both of those systems but PS3 is retro because they have pretty much discontinued all of the services for that generation. I know there’s people that disagree with me and that’s fine because like I said, I don’t care that much I just played I want to play.

[@kapmahn]

Considering I started out on Atarii 2600 here's my take. I like the generations approach by hardware, but because of the strange overlaps whether by release dates, bits, or other; in my mind controller and game medium is the dividing line. e.g. Gen 1 Retro : Single input controllers and Cartridges. Gen 2 retro : 2-3 standard button input and cartridge. Gen 3 retro : CD base and Joystick Button combo controllers. Gen 4 retro : Motion controls and CD. Modern Era: Digital downloads almost exclusively.

[@hiddentrack1701]

As an Old, I want to say retro starts at N64 (cartridge-based consoles) so I don't feel so darn old but I know the actual line is PS2.

[@juliusnielsen7122]

N64 is clearly next gen.

[@contrafighter_1983]

PS2 and down, that's where I draw the line.

[@BrickBrxin]

more like ps3 while you were trying not to accept your age you got even older and the line moved.

[@pepincuatro2865]

I don't think N64 would be a bad point to make the cut, as it's the last gen when nobody had flatscreen TVs. And PS2 gen basically set the basis for the modern games to come.

[@TEBLify]

Retro is tied to nostalgia, an inherently personal thing. If it's no longer current and you want to revisit that version of you, who are we to decide. Some exclude xbox360 and ps3, but those are also the same people that are currently hoovering them up cheaply in order to sell them back to you in 3-5 years 😅

[@Sichlitt]

I have never felt more old than when I showed my 9 year old cousin my DS lite and he was amazed by how "huge" the cartridges were. I'm 20. I shouldn't be feeling this way.

[@parsley7]

I always enjoy the vibe of your videos. On the surface, the "20 year old games count as retro" benchmark sounds reasonable, except then it's very hard for me to imagine the Gamecube generation as retro. What do you mean Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker are 22 years old?

[@sc3ku]

How about these ideas for retro (for fun): -anything that was made in the CRT era -games that came with instruction manuals -Systems that could hook up to RF inputs -systems that didn’t have hard drives -games that came in cardboard boxes 😄

[@paulclinton6414]

No because Wii is a CRT system but is not retro.

[@obiwan1255]

Maybe retro becomes if a Platform is no longer on sale (just available on the used market). With PC: Games just running on an older OS (like Win95 or XP) or older HW (Voodoo Graphics, etc.). The availability of games in general must maybe excluded because they are on sale much longer than the actual system.

[@-OBEY-]

Well I believe the 4th generation and older are retro, basically anything that is 3D and HD is very hard to accept as retro, such as Playstation, N64, Dreamcast, etc. Mid 90's to 2000's felt like yesterday to me.

[@contrafighter_1983]

Anything that has a hardwired controller at launch is retro in my book (2002 and down).

[@ErkanTheDrow]

The display type is the distinction between retro and modern for me. If I would rather play it on a crt it’s retro. If I’d rather play it on a flatscreen it’s modern. PS3 is modern. Wii is retro. 360 actually splits it’s library with early releases designed for 480p and a crt and later titles designed for HDMI.

[@Ephesians-yn8ux]

In the automotive world, a car must be 25 years old to qualify as an “antique”. This same rule could apply to what is “retro”.

[@Spacething7474]

all of them. even the new ones.

[@Hola-ro6yv]

If that were the case the term would be entirely meaningless.

[@Spacething7474]

@@Hola-ro6yv wouldn't be too much of a difference that what it is now!