Which shogi set should you use? Kanji? International?

[@MrDmoe33]

I love that piece set not only because it shows you how a piece moves but also the actual Kanji. It helped me memorize the characters so now i can play with the pure kanji set.

[@kishascape]

I just use the hidetchi style international pieces cuz screw all that.

[@ShogiHarbour]

Sure haha

[@cefearius9334]

I used to play a lot of Chess, and I prefer the Kanji. Of course, I'm also learning Japanese. In my opinion, the two kanji is probably the best because it's easy to memorize but it doesn't take away from the atmosphere.

[@nosami5268]

I am an old taxi driver from Munich, Germany. My (btw Polish) father showed me the rules of Western Chess already in 1964, so it is maybe too late for me to learn Shogi in this life. In 2004 I saw for the first time in my life people playing Shogi in Munich, but only this year I installed a Shogi App on my phone. It's a "hardcore App" using only pieces with more than one Kanji on it.

[@ShogiHarbour]

It is only too late if you believe it so yourself. Please tell me if you have any questions :)

[@nosami5268]

@@ShogiHarbour Dziękuję bardzo. 😊 I'm new to this channel and I am just watching videos and solving puzzles on my phone. I didn't play a human being so far.) I was never good in Chess (in my prime I was 1500 Elo in Chess and 6 kyu in Ygo), but I can still solve a Mate in 1 in 4 seconds, while it took me in the beginning up to 5 Minutes (!) to find a Mate in 1 in Shogi 😔. (My App came with 2100 puzzles for each category: Mate in 1, Mate in 3 and Mate in 5.😇) My question is: What is the rank of a Shogi beginner in Japanese and in Western terms. Is it 10 kyu and 800 Elo? Is there a fix relationship between kyu and Elo? Pozdrowienia z Niemiec, Michael. 👍🧙‍♂️

[@ShogiHarbour]

Impressive! There is online elo like on 81dojo.com. and more official like Federation of European Associations one. You can check both online. But generally in the shogi world kyu and dan matter more than elo. In the pro world there is no elo.

[@ShogiDojoLyon]

Thank you for sharing your thaughts :) As pros use single kanji pieces for easier reading on TV/ mobile devices, i guess single kanji will take the upper hand over double kanji soon. Plus, now you can find afordable single kanji plastic sets that looks great to play at home or in club. My little experience is that when i promote shogi in game forums, about 1/3 prefer to begin with occidental / Hidetchi sets (especialy if they have a little western chess knowledge), 1/3 prefer to learn with CZ sets because they find the arrows convinient enough, and 1/3 prefer traditional sets to begin with, mainly because they have more interest in japanese culture than in games. If i promote shogi in japanese forums, of course i don't use western/ Hidetchi sets at all, and it becomes a 50/50 CZ/ traditional. Of course, once you want to compete, kanjis (single or double) are mandatory to me. Most of the time, the younger the player, the less they are afraid of learning some kanjis. Keeping the kanji barrier sometimes is a way to select people who are genuinely interested in learning the game (sometimes it cost very much time to attract people with dobustu kawai like sets, but in the end, most of the time these people don't come again anyway). Finaly, i think any set you and your oponnent can afford or you build yourself is fine, as long as you have fun with it :)

[@ShogiHarbour]

I have to agree with everything you wrote. My experiences are very similar!

[@DanielDugovic]

Thanks for explaining your background and the current state of the shogi world on this popular topic.

[@RockPhill33]

I agree. Btw we have first translated shogi book "Trevor Leggett" to Czech language and we use CZ style pieces in all diagrams in book :)

[@ShogiHarbour]

Oh wow awesome! Send me some pics

[@austinvickymoore3656]

I like the traditional aspect but I love the design of the hybrid pieces.

[@danieldaugaard403]

I use double kanji and write movements on the side of the kanji in the corner on the piece wood itself so I can teach others this way I’ve successfully taught 3 people to only read kanji set

[@ShogiHarbour]

Awesome :)

[@sovietblobfish]

i do love the czech piece set, strikes a good balance

[@ShogiHarbour]

Yes!

[@dane6689]

Another spectacular video. I am so glad I have found this channel. My opinion: To promote Shogi in universal symbols but keep using the Kanji in tournaments and formal games. This way, people will learn it. Also, I am not very good at recognizing pieces and I have already mastered 2 types of Kanji - the most common ones at least from what I have seen so far, it's not that that hard, even when the pieces are against me, at the side of the board and even when I see them on my 4.7 inch screen phone (iPhone se 2020). To be honest, I still forget sometimes the way some pieces move - especially gold and silver - this is much harder for me than recognizing the pieces. I will sometimes count on my silver because I forgot it can't move backwards, or falsely believe that a square is blocked by my gold although it's not. Actually, when I really listen to people around me who are terrified of Shogi, they are afraid of the mechanics of the game - the pieces don't left the board, the legal movements are awkward, etc.

[@ShogiHarbour]

Thank you! Yes for the shogi promotion approach I agree. Small hint for silver and gold. Think of silver star and a golden cross. Then add forward 3 squares. And you have silver movement and gold movement. Next is lots of lots of practice. Generals are the hardest pieces to master for us!!

[@dane6689]

@@ShogiHarbour Thanks, For silver - I actually imagine a car + one move forward (because of the wheels). For gold, I just remember it's the "awkward one". If you give me a written test I will be right 100% of the times, but during a game I can "blunder" because I will get confused for a second. But, maybe it's also a personal problem because this happen to me in chess as well. Again, I really hope you will keep going with the channel. I rarely watch video tutorials as I am a person who must have the interaction learning, but your videos are really exceptional.

[@ShogiHarbour]

Aw, I am happy to hear you find my tutorials helpful. I see, in that case it is only a matter of practice. Everyone goes through those phases the same. Good Luck!!

[@ShogiDojoLyon]

Hi, if i may try to help, i often say the silver general is sort of a small bishop, he goes diagonaly only one square, plus one move straight forward, and gold general is like a small rook, move up down right and left only one square, plus extra diagonal forward. it is very true, you remind us that it is sometimes more difficult to remember the moves than the kanjis, that's were the CZ set are usefull :) At the beginning, i rembeberd the pieces because i kept in mind there starting square, so i could read my games, but struggled to recognize a game started by other players 😆

[@dane6689]

@@ShogiDojoLyon Hi thanks. I truly remember the steps but during the game I might blunder. But then again, I am not sure it this is a shogi thing, I can also rarely forget both in chess and shogi that placing the queen/dragon against the king when it's not protected will end in loosing it because the king can take, so I will blunder like that also with the CZ pieces I believe - I hope this will go away over time. But yes, gold and silver are "objectively" hard to memorize in my opinion. Such non-intuitive moves but that's what makes Shogi so great! I didn't get the last paragraph, how does the starting square helped you memorize the full moves of the pieces? 😳

[@nothingnewhere6551]

I play the third one at home; it is a terrific travel set. Online I use double kanji.

[@tymelomokepon5807]

Its so cool to see a picture from years ago. Why not making a whole Video about your shogiu past and your way. Would be really cool

[@ShogiHarbour]

Could grab old photos and just babble for 50 mins haha

[@sundowner62james69]

Thanks for making that Karo sensei . I like kanji pieces myself , but must admit the Czech ones do look good.

[@jonnymet8910]

As a complete noob American who is only learning through an app, i feel like the two kanji pieces are preferable. I am already decent at chess, and shogi is a completely different game. I feel like learning shogi properly requires kanji. It's a way to separate the two games from each other mentally. Plus I've only been playing for like a month. The two kanji pieces are actually pretty easy to distinguish from each other.

[@toriwatson9655]

I agree, CZ style pieces are good, easier to teach the game, and easy to progress to Kanji.

[@RockPhill33]

Yes! and another good point is, that you can easy learn how to play shogi newcommer or your friends. :)

[@toriwatson9655]

@@RockPhill33 yes, friends can be reluctant to try shogi with Kanji.

[@bozmar1]

I like the playok international shogi design ... I don t feel confortable with characters even I have learned them

[@ShogiHarbour]

I actually learnt basics on that one as well :)

[@sundowner62james69]

@@ShogiHarbour Good old Kurnik! :)

[@TommyLikeTom]

I learnt all the kanji and hanzi for shogi and xiangqi in 1 to 2 days along with all the moves. If you're not doing it that way you're wearing training wheels. You should also learn the actual meaning of the words and if you're super keen the pronunciation.

[@ShogiHarbour]

I actually use symbols when playing xiangqi! But in need I can read kanji yeah.

[@DarkThomy]

Personnally Ive 3d printed a set which looks appealing (chess like symbols) and with the moves indicated on pieces only because: -its easier to get New players started -I like seeing the freaking dragon on promoted rook x')

[@ShogiHarbour]

Dragons are hard to say no to!

[@Fazbar_Shogi]

Im Vietnamese and although we've done using Chinese characters for a long time ago, i can still remember the characters on Xiangqi and Shogi piece in just a few minutes. It's actually not that hard.

[@ShogiHarbour]

Lucky :)

[@خديجة-م3ر]

I just want pretty pieces

[@ShogiHarbour]

Ah, don't we all? :)

[@capt.JohnSilver]

In my opinion - kanji set only.

[@FluffertonsTheFirst]

I have a double Kanji set

[@ShogiHarbour]

Hardcore

[@danielsicko8593]

Is learning Minishogi a good thing to start? With way fewer pieces, learning the pieces by their orginal Kanji seems much easier to me than learning all the pieces in standard Shogi.

[@danielsicko8593]

Way rather than thing.

[@ShogiHarbour]

Sure! Any mini variant is great! Or handicaps!

[@pikulis]

Goro Goro Shogi is better. Only 4 different pieces and no powerful pieces with a slower gameplay that is more conducive for learning. I find Minishogi too much in too little of a space for introducing and hooking people on Shogi. Playing on a standard board but only with kings, pawns, silvers and golds is also a nice intro.

[@jdh8]

Xkcd! Ah, I see you're a woman of culture as well.

[@Bladavia]

In my opinion, just jump straight in and get the full experience, do it as they do it. Even if it's difficult at first, you get used to it after a few days or weeks. Trying to look for shortcuts and easy ways in is not the right mindset. I respect your decision tho, especially as teacher/communicator for the game

[@jonnymet8910]

This! 100% this! I'm American and have only started to learn shogi a month or so ago. The app i downloaded gave the option for either lettered pieces or the double Kanji pieces, and the lettered pieces just felt wrong. I decided to learn shogi as a personal challenge and the English lettered pieces felt like I was cheating. The app has 15 levels for AI difficulty in the practice mode. So far I can only win occasionally on level six. But I'm learning!

[@pikulis]

The argument that learning to differentiate original kanji pieces is difficult for Westerners and for this reason we have to invent these ugly alternative sets is ridiculous to me. For some reason Westerners are ok with learning dozens of icons in Race for the Galaxy or some other modern board game, but throw their hands up when it comes to learning a few characters in Shogi. It's only a mental block ("oh it's Chinese, it's a total mystery, I could never") and once you get past that, it's a matter of two or three quick games to learn the rules and the kanji, or teach it to other adults. Kids pick it up much quicker. Sometimes I show Belarusian kids' shogi tournament videos to intimidate hesitant adults into learning it. Also, for me, one of the most important reasons for using traditional pieces, is aesthetics. All the alternative sets I've seen (with exception of Dobutsu, which is cute and very functional) are simply ugly/not elegant in comparison with even the cheapest plastic kanji pieces.

[@ShogiHarbour]

That's right! People do remember other complex games, why not shogi!? I like some aesthetics on lishogi, they put a lot of work into them :3

[@genekisayan6564]

Is there an english version of it ? 😂😂😂

[@ShogiHarbour]

Alphabet it one example

[@tomaslaskovsky722]

Greetings from Czech [:k not :ch] republic. 🙂

[@ShogiHarbour]

Polish accent kicked in haha thanks!

[@shogibyvictortree5028]

Kanji