Which T2 Static Artillery Is Best? | Supreme Commander Science

[@charlesdaugherty321]

You left off blast radius... The one shing point of the gunther...

[@Sleelan]

The Miasma always had the DoT aspect to it, I remember the building description in the original SupCom stating explicitly that the shells create a cloud that damage enemies over time (hence the name) and those clouds being a visible lingering green mist

[@buckcherry2564]

Yup, it makes a horizontal cloud that does DoT all over inside it. If it hits the top of a shield more DoT points contact it and do hilarious damage (firing behind shields to hit the top was a trick back in the day). The cloud lingers too, so hitting the front of a fast moving blob of units let's them drive into it and die enmasse.

[@briannitzschke2767]

I'm pretty sure the cybran arty has the largest AoE on its shells, aeon is the smallest. Its true of t3 arty. Cybran is about blanket damage. You cant guarantee what it will hit, but it will explode on something. This means cybran arty is best for softening land attacks. Aeon is best as sniping structures.

[@DaereonLive]

The part where he showed the 4 T2 Artillery stats even had a bit called "Damage Radius" like 2 lines above the firing randomness things... I was waiting for some kind of conclusion on that, as the Gunther is the only one to have a radius of 4, where the Klink and Seraphim have 3, with Aeon being dead last at only 2.

[@andrewkinsey8754]

TheDuelist, I think the aeon shell explodes in several pulses over time, and the damage done depends on how far out from the centre of the impact the target is. Thus the damage is consistent and varies as a function of radius from impact centre.

[@icyknightmare4592]

About DPS: The database shows DPS that is simply damage/reload time, because those are the only reliable constant numbers. The "real" observed DPS will vary lower from that value since it doesn't take into account velocity or distance to target (it assumes an instant hit). Observed DPS is better calculated as damage/(reload time + projectile flight time). The difference from the DB's DPS value isn't going to be much, and is irrelevant in terms of actual gameplay, but if you're measuring precisely it's noticeable. This is true of every projectile weapon. In fact, the effect is mitigated in FA because damage is a constant (we're not simulating kinetic energy and variable velocity from air resistance. It's like every projectile is a HEAT or HE round.) For artillery, in real terms, you'll get optimal results on target with power adjacency while shooting as close to the minimum range circle as possible. Observed DPS and accuracy is lower the closer you get to the maximum range. Not by that much, but you can see it if you look closely. Example: Klink Hammer without adjacency does 2000 dmg with a 20s reload speed. If it was a beam, it would do 2000 dmg to the target every 20s for 100 DPS (the DB's value). If the shell has a travel time of 1s, it does 2000 dmg every 21 seconds, for an effective DPS of 95.24. This still assumes perfect accuracy against a single target, and the observed value in game will be lower due to inaccuracy. Also, for Aeon the Miasma, Serenity, and Emissary are all DOT weapons, which cause pulsing damage at the point of impact. Moving targets may take less damage from a hit if they exit the damage radius. This can also cause units that move into the damage radius before the DOT stops ticking to get hit, doing a "line" of damage to a moving formation of units.

[@TheDuelist]

So I have measured it based on reload time excluding flight time of the shell just like you mentioned and by my watch, it's 21 seconds for fire cycle (not including flight time of the actual projectile). I've observed this in a couple other areas (battleship comparison for example). Not sure if I'm just an noob with a stopwatch, but I think those reload times are off in the unit DB. Because you are correct. Only objective way to measure would be just based on reload time and dmg dealt. Flight time would end up getting cancelled over time anyway because it's only an initial impact to the damage and all subsequent shells would have identical (or near identical) intervals after initial firing. Again, I might just be really bad with a stopwatch lol :D.

[@icyknightmare4592]

@@TheDuelist If you want to take a look at all the numbers here's the code: github.com/FAForever/fa/blob/develop/units/UEB2303/UEB2303_unit.bp

[@TheDuelist]

@@icyknightmare4592 Interesting. I didn't realize the code was publicly available. So I do see a variable .05 that seems to be tied to firing rate. Is there a formula that gets applied to this elsewhere to calculate fire rate that the devs have put together? Or is this something GPG put together in the original engine release? .05 doesn't say a whole lot unless you know the context it's being used it.... My apologies for the illiteracy of my questions. I haven't done much coding since college and none of it has been for game development on an existing engine.

[@ICE4031]

I mean if you are aiming at the same target, this assumption of flight time is only relevant for the first shot, isn´t it? Lets say the reload time is 20 sec and flight time 1 sec: The first shell will hit after 21 seconds (if u assume the artillery has to go through a full reload circle), but every following shell will impact after 20 seconds. The artillery is already reloading during the first shells flighttime and doesnt wait until impact so the target will bet hit every 20 secs after the initial shot. 1 secs flighttime means the arty reloaded for 1 secs, needs another 19 secs and then 1 sec flighttime. Or am I completely missing something lol?

[@1uup10]

@@ICE4031 yes, you are right. The first guy is wrong. The interval of time between shots fired is still the same so dps is unaffected by muzzle velocity.

[@damianlunt9003]

loving the videos bud, play FAF everyday (lock down - nothing else to do lol) only thing about the videos i would say is turn the music down a little, can be a bit distracting at time, but other than that, nice format, great presentation and welcome to the club (gamer/youtuber), so a big thank you (learning more about the game with each video you do) and looking forward to more from you in the future......

[@TheDuelist]

Thanks for the feedback man! I've been working to get it dialed in appropriately since I introduced it to videos about a month ago, but I'll knock it down a few more db if it's distracting.

[@uruson]

Re: Power Generators. Might be worth testing how it interacts with mixing tiers; While it's impractical to surround a t2 arty with t2/t3 power generators, just one or two is a lot more workable. For example, a t2 pgen has twelve 1x1 spaces it can service, three on each side. You could do any number of things - Three artilleries per side, or two with a t1 pgen between them... So a theoretical build would be a T2 pgen with a shield gen on one side, and six t2 artillery pieces, two on each of three sides with t1 pgens to fill up their adjacency bonus. Some rough math yields ~4.8% reduction from t1 pgens, ~7.1% reduction from t2 pgens, and 9.5% reduction from t3 pgens per adjacency. So I'd guess it's 5, 7.5, and 10% respectively. The expected result would be rather underwhelming - a 22.5% reduction in fire time from 1x t2 + 3x t1 adjacency, when compared to the 20% from just t1's. But there could be larger results if the adjacency has diminishing returns. (i.e. large bonus for the first/largest followed by lesser bonuses for further adjacencies) Or if there's some funny business. For example - if it checks for 'how much of adjacency is filled' and 'what is the adjacency tech' then t1's could max out the fill, and a single t2/t3 could set the 'adjacency tech' to 2 or 3 respectively. I.e. a single t2 gen and three t1 gens may yield a 30% reduction in fire time, as opposed to 20% from just t1's. And an effective 10% further fire time decrease to six artillery pieces might be worth it, plus whatever bonus it gives to the shield gen. On the other hand, frontline economy doesn't seem that great. (on the other hand, if your economy is 'fighting' while your enemy's isn't, isn't that an advantage?) While on the subject, I've never seen or tried putting pgens next to other turrets. T2 defense turrets? AA turrets? Ravagers? Food for thought.

[@michaelhartman3066]

Hey, enjoying the supcom science vids. I did a bit of modding in the supcom files a while back and firing randomness (FR) essentially acts as a circle the projectiles would hit around the target on a flat surface. An FR of 0 would be perfect aim, an FR of 1 means the projectiles hit in a circle of 1 measurement unit around the target's center, and so on. There is a constant randomness factor (i forgot what its called and where its located but I think its in the physics engine) affecting the projectiles at all times that's why in the unit database FR is an integer instead of a percentage.

[@TheDuelist]

That is so insightful. Thank you very much for that!

[@Chessandmotorcycles2426]

Whats Firing Tolerance?

[@mathangel1]

Hey Duelist! IT is Samus759 from faf, yeah aeon T2 arty, T3 mobile arty and EVEN T3 static arty are damage overtime! :)

[@KaletheQuick]

Calling it before I watch, it's the Aeon one. This is the way.

[@benjaminrobledo5466]

UEF has best Heath, which in certain circumstances, it would output more damage if it survived for longer.

[@rabidlenny7221]

Duelist, I would love to see a video on which T2 flak is best oddly enough. But I think more people would like to see a T2 PD comarison

[@martinf9095]

Thanks man! I learned a lot today. I noticed that your kill command is the default one (with countdown). I dont know if this is by choice or not but you can assign a hotkey to insta kill a unit in the hotkeys menu. Most people use that because it comes in handy when recycling factories in higher tech levels. Also another thing to suplement miasmas is the obsolver (t3 shield disruptor). Like t2 arty it also has a huge range so even one or two are often enough to tip win the t2 arty war both on the front or against navy. All of you who play aeon should at least give it a try

[@TheDuelist]

It's more by choice because I'm scared of accidentally ctr+k my com lol.

[@jmkhenka]

@@TheDuelist I ctrl+shift+k for instant boom. Never blown up the ACU :) without it you cant awassa-bomb properly.

[@FALK_3]

For a sec there you sounded like Lord Mandalore

[@MixieCheek]

Klink Hammer (UEF) - Jack of all trades. Decent accuracy, damage, Reload time is 20 seconds. Miasma (Aeon) - Expensive, yet the structure has low HP. Deals a lot of damage. Damage-over-effect cloud appears where the shells hit. Slightly more expensive than Klink Hammer. Near-perfect accuracy. Reload time is 20 seconds. Good for effectively destroying static targets, horrible against moving targets due to practically no damage radius(the cloud damages over-time, but it's too slow to have enough effect on moving targets) Gunther (Cybran) - The cheapest T2 static artillery. Incredibly inaccurate, yet it has a massive damage radius. Good for when your tactic is, "I just don't want that direction to exist anymore." It's like a baby scathis ♥ Zthuthaam (Seraphim) - The perfect artillery weapon. It's as accurate as the Aeon Miasma, and it has a damage radius that can rival that of Gunther. Very fine damage. However, it is expensive. The winner? Depends on what you want to do! Gunther is good for saturating enemy firebases, but you have to build quite a few. The Klink Hammer can be used for practically anything, and the Miasma wins damage-wise (against stationary targets.) The Zthuthaam is good, but only if you have the means of breaking through enemy shields. Sure, you can build lots of it but that'll be quite damn expensive.

[@TheDuelist]

I'm glad people are still watching this and getting value from it. Your break down definitely adds some context to the video and I appreciate it :D

[@MixieCheek]

@@TheDuelist This game is damn complicated! Like a 6D chess game. But, I must say! Thank you for your contribution to SUPCOM and FAF! It is thanks to great people like you who help noobs overcome their weaknesses!

[@chadrilcon1024]

Loved the video! I was wondering if you could do a comparison between is more mass and power efficient to spam T2 air when playing aeon vs T3 air. I would be also interested in a video on what faction to use on very popular maps, like should I go with uef on x map because of the cruisers range or should I go for an unconventional tactic and mass spam cybran T1 frigates. You have helped me improve my game with cybran for sure. Thanks

[@TheDiplomat27]

I confess I almost never use static artillery. I rarely find much use for it. I spend my time building my economy and building mobile units that I don't really have time to build static artillery. I tend to build a lot of air bombers and tanks and hit the enemy as hard and fast as possible.

[@aeronerd22]

just the video I was looking for. thanks

[@TheDuelist]

Glad it could help!

[@austinstoner1988]

Love your videos man

[@nerodelacroix9281]

Great! Can we get to see some t3 arty please?

[@roberth2833]

What’s the difference between T2 arty with and without Pgens around it

[@CYON4D]

Nice tests.

[@nicolash2103]

the gunter ad the biggest aeo so when fighting lang he can have a higher dps it's like the trebuchet

[@nicolash2103]

and it's 20% cheaper the precision that you put when you lay your artillery is also to keep in mind so they all have there trade off I would say is less clear cut that your video present them. But yeah because of the random damage the aion is the best

[@TheDuelist]

You are correct. I think a lot of this is down to personal preference and play style. Cybran play style doesn't lend itself to turtling as much so it would make sense that their artillery suffers from it. I had no idea though that the Miasma was so strong though, since i almost never play Aeon.

[@nicolash2103]

The Cybran can still play like a turtle you have the best mobile missile launcher to denied forward bases. The t2 shield have a good shield for the cost but not a good coverage the mobile arti is rely good if you're entrench.. Your units are on average faster so you can retreat if the engagement goes to shit and I prefer the Megalith to the Fatboy for long range t4

[@nicolash2103]

@@TheDuelist kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnmoo2mBfdqoqKs found the video that illustrate that

[@khaldoun6260]

Thank you..good video

[@darklord-uz1rm]

Can you do interceptors v air superiority fighters

[@TheDuelist]

Sure!

[@limez5124]

I didnt even watch it yet, Gayon is the best on this one