Who Is Buying The Bitcoin ETFs? | Eric Balchunas & Jim Bianco

[@Stella-m9f]

Hit $200k today, Thanks for the knowledge and nugget you have thrown my way over the last month , started with $14,000 in last month 2024.

[@kimberly-g5r]

You're correct!! I make a lot of money without relying on the government. Investing in stocks and digital currencies is beneficial at this moment.

[@Antonio-l3l5m]

mrs Bellamy freya was my hope during the 'bear summer' last year. I did so many mistakes but also learned so much from it, and of course from Bellamy freya

[@MariaJohnson-g3s]

She must be really dedicated and well trusted for people to talk much good about

[@jessicaPerez-y9l]

The fact that I got to learn and earn from her program is everything to me think about it, it's a win-win for both ways.

[@freggie-e5r]

Wow. I'm a bit perplexed seeing Bellamy freya name been mentioned here also. Didn't know she has been good to so many people.

[@koach672]

You guys just don’t understand the point of btc. All I want is a place to store wealth for 60 years. It doesn’t need to become Solana.

[@bestt2252]

Exactly. High-time preference folks cant grok this

[@TheBitcoinRevolution]

Unbelievable ignorance. 😮

[@johnpittman7095]

ahhh must be new. you sound like every other fiat guy who is falling for the get rich quick..bitcoiners have been here awhile and/or understand that this isnt about acquiring more dollar value. Solana has ZERO purpose. Have fun with the tax man. Sure hope you wake up and realize the charts wont matter when the telegram insiders pull the plug on ya. bitcoin is here to fight for individual freedoms worldwide. Solana is here to convert your dollars into their bitcoin holdings.

[@tw106]

Jim Bianco has stated that the wealthy are focused on not losing their wealth. Well, keeping their wealth in fiat is like holding water in a bucket with holes that is losing 10-15% every year through inflation. Hence the flows into Bitcoin ETFs will continue to increase and double on average every year despite its volatility and will slowly stabilize as the institution are coming in. Also, as the wealth of boomers is transferred to their children, they will most likely store that wealth in digital assets like Bitcoin.

[@rowanbailey6244]

They will learn the hard way

[@rowanbailey6244]

The dollar will blow up itself ....one love from Jamaica 🇯🇲 .

[@manishshah8998]

Bitcoin or Crypto Currency World ruled by commoners is only possible if there is an Anarchy. As soon as commoners need a protection of the Government for their safety, Parents will not allow children's rules. ETF is the Scheme of Blackrock and other Houses to take away 1% to 2% wealth of every interested individual. If you are good speculator, you can make lot of money for sure.

[@tonioinverness]

Wealthy people don't keep their wealth in fiat though. They keep it in real estate, farmland, stocks, commodities, cashflow positive businesses, and art. As long as all that stuff keeps up with the rate of inflation--and it usually outpaces it--then they're doing fine. There is zero motivation to take even the slightest elevated risk.

[@tw106]

@@tonioinverness I hope those who are wealthy are not keeping their wealth in commercial real estate at the moment...

[@n8katz]

The ETF specific conversation here is incredible. Thanks, Mike, for bringing it together. Jim is a lot better when he is asking questions and seeking to understand than when he is shouting from atop his soap box (probably a lesson for all of us, there).

[@anthony09283]

Great comment. Show went off the rails when Eric signed off.

[@carpenoctom]

Jim fails to mention that money in tradfi is sticky and silo'd. that money is never going to transfer funds to kraken or CB to buy crypto. further, those tax advantaged accounts dont have access to those crypto exchanges, hence the ETFs. advisors had previously had to sell away to give clients access, now buying BTC is a few simple clicks.

[@YourMother88]

Exactly. Normies like me have the majority of our savings in retirement accounts that cannot buy BTC. The ETFs open up a huge new pool of retail money.

[@Josh-xe5vi]

He's clueless

[@bethecoin]

Jim. In a very short period I am going to buy the big house and the big boat by transferring my BTC from my Ledger to the asset owners Ledger. No dollars transferring.

[@IaintTheHerb]

Get them off Ledger before you get hacked. There are much better wallets out there. Coldcard, Blockstream Jade, etc.

[@OZcafehead]

Still thinking about selling your Bitcoin? 😂 For a boat 😂😂. More pizza stories are inevitable.

[@Josh-xe5vi]

​@OZcafehead yeah, think like the wealthy and utilize your btc as collateral for a loan so you're still in position and avoid taxable gains (if you live somewhere with capital gains)

[@ElekkForce]

.@Eric Bitcoiners do not disrespect stocks. They just know it's blooned with dumb money through ETFs. Most are of the oppinion that passive investment is a negative for socio-economic structure. companies should be owned by people who care for them.

[@usntheboy1]

Listening to this conversation makes me think shitcoiners and trad-fi are two sides of the same coin, and i need more bitcoin.

[@bestt2252]

Agreed

[@Josh-xe5vi]

Yeah, clueless

[@mikesmevog7146]

I can tell you as a retail investor, trader I am in the BTC ETFs, proxys long term bc I have no interest in holding crypto myself. The bit I had disappeared when I sent it some where which may have been my fault but I still have no interest in messing with that again. Perfectly content holding ETFs, etc forever. But as a btc bull who finds using coin base expensive, slow and like I said my BTC vanished, I completely agree with Bianco that the ETFs are wayyy more user friendly

[@HaveANiceDay108]

They're wrong about RIAs and High Networth individuals taking years to get into BTC. There will be FOMO, no doubt about it. Those RIAs who recommend their clients to allocate to BTC will far outperform the rest of the crowd and that is what will start the FOMO. Can an RIA really afford to be left in the dust by the competition? Of course not. Furthermore, surveys have shown that 76% of all RIAs were interested in offering BTC to their clients once the ETFs were approved. Once they have done their due diligence and once their compliance department gives their blessing, they will be off to the races. Another point is fiduciary responsibility. Research has clearly shown that the addition of BTC to a traditional portfolio increases the Sharpe ratio (risk adjusted returns). Not offering the BTC ETFs to their clients, imo, violates their fiduciary duties. This should be a no-brainer and once the RIA FOMO starts, nothing will be able to stop this train.

[@Scorch428]

IF the speculation in gold has continued to go up over time, the speculation in bitcoin should continue to go up over time.

[@ericcson3429]

I like Jim, but Bitcoin makes legacy financial advisors / analysis (like himself) largely redundant. He's now relegated himself to spreading BTC FUD to attempt to stay relevant.

[@pbrown0829]

He’s allowed to have criticism. His criticism isn’t FUD

[@lukejones7366]

He seems to gotten lazy and has been quite wrong for a couple of years now. It's like woah.. Bitcoin doesn't have a 700k TPS? What a profound discovery Jim, maybe hedge the downside risk somehow 🤦

[@mylescharlesworth7771]

He just doesn’t understand, his trad fi brain can’t compute. He’s trying to fit bitcoin into his trad-fi understanding of financial markets. I don’t blame him for it, he’s grown up and worked in this system his whole life, but I also don’t appreciate that he seems too proud to admit/question his perception of financial markets even as a hypothetical might just be completely wrong. That BTC isn’t a new piece of the trad-fi system but that trad-fi has become/is becoming a piece of the BTC market/network. Like if there is a liquidity crisis in the ETFs I’ll just laugh. Cause it’s too easy to just own the spot yourself and it won’t be a failure of BTC it’ll be a failure of Trad-fi as they try to shoehorn this immutable square asset into their round trad-fi hole and get wreaked playing with paper BTC

[@IaintTheHerb]

Was wondering why he was even on this show 😂😂😂

[@mikeflynn2656]

Bitcoin doesn’t need anything else it’s a store of value. That’s the. Use case. That’s what ship coins for

[@LeeRoyJenkz]

Mike the future is on Bitcoin layer 2s. You can use all the crazy blockchain tech you want while maintaining the hard money, decentralization and security of mainchain bitcoin. Plus everything else is a security.

[@Josh-xe5vi]

Let him continue to waste his time, cheaper btc for those more deserving.

[@niktak1114]

Hopefully the next fork enables zk-proofs so bitcoin can have real layer 2s

[@gr3398]

Loved the back and forth. Best way to learn is outside of an echo chamber.

[@ivar766]

All we need is the right advice on how to invest and we will be set for life, making weekly profits from trading crypto, hoping to retire next year.. Investment should always be on any creative man's heart for success in life

[@Georgina705]

That's awesome!! I know nothing about investment and I'm keen on getting started. What are the strategies?

[@charles2395]

I'll advise you to work with a financial advisor.....Building a good investment portfolio is more complex so I would recommend you seek Fergus Waylen's support. This way you can get strategies designed to address your unique long/short-term goals and financial dreams .

[@georgebasonathan4784]

YES! that's exactly his name (Mr Fergus Waylen) I watched his interview on CNN News and so many people recommended highly about him and his trading skills, he's an expert and I'm just starting with him....From Brisbane Australia

[@raphfelimax2713]

This Man has really change the life of many people from different countries and am a testimony of his trading platform .

[@FranklyHunt]

Well, you are saying the fact. I invested $4,000 with fergus Waylen. and earned $12,000 .

[@CMRHM]

Jim Bianco is so sharp on his opinions, i learn a lot from his sharing. Thanks.

[@h.herabidian6144]

FANTASTIC discussion guys. Thank you so much.

[@nick-oi1xf]

Mike, the point of bitcoin is it's a decentralized, open and honest ledger. There's nothing else like it in the world. Ethereum and other L1s are centralized. There are Ethereum addresses that are frozen. So there's no point in using something that's literally worse than tradfi. I honestly don't understand how a person who's into crypto doesn't understand this.

[@BasslineHeavy]

FASCINATING! Thankyou all! ❤

[@shuaiber]

Impressed by how much Jim is in sync with the tech!

[@tw106]

How many who will get into Bitcoin ETFs and then educate themselves about Bitcoin will then decide to buy Bitcoin directly to secure their own wealth? I am sure there will be some even if they are of an older generation.

[@ToneGuruLA]

Eric is the voice of reason. Good show, good guests, good insight. Thank you.

[@otaran8888]

This Jim guy really comparing the bitcoin ETFs to USO and XIV? Those are designed for traders, to go in and out of position. Their prospectus would even mention as much as they rely on derivatives to roughly "track" their goal on a intra day/week basis. They are by design going to fall in price as time goes on. Bitcoin spot ETFs have none of that structural loss besides the fees (which are going lower due to heavy competition at the moment). There is no way Jim doesn't understand the fundamental differences in these ETFs as someone working at bloomberg and now I'm just left to assume he is arguing in bad faith.

[@nick-oi1xf]

Good point

[@mylescharlesworth7771]

So I agree with Eric’s point of the significance of a 60/40 and making your money work for you…in a hard money environment. The problem is that bonds and stocks have been monetized. There is a monetary premium on stocks because the govt is devaluing our currency and as the spending continues and the debt spirals the amount of gains you have to make continues to climb until it’s unsustainable and pops. I can’t invest in a market that is a bubble I can only speculate. If stocks and bonds were only valued based on current returns/projected new returns from growth I’d be all about it, but I’m not gonna “invest” and pray the market doesn’t implode cause the fed decided to turn off the printer right as I got in.

[@rowanbailey6244]

And that's the whole point simple. Thank you ..one love from Jamaica 🇯🇲

[@misty671]

The etfs allow people to hold cryptos in registered accounts in Canada. This is a big win for the space, not a failure.

[@jonbos06]

Yo .. this was a great one. Love all these guys.

[@Buckaroo801]

Point blank, where does Jim think price will be in this cycle?

[@qnpmh]

Absolutely stellar interview

[@hamishmmc]

Really compelling discussion, great to hear counterpoints, very easy for fall into the BTC echo chamber!

[@anonmon6236]

Stock pickers and traders continue to underperform and make excuses

[@stuartniven2401]

This was an awesome conversation! Thank you!

[@Paul-v2h]

Great Interview and discussions. Thank You!

[@kiwoongpk91]

damn this conversation was intense really good episode

[@mattanderson6672]

Thanks guys!! Great interview

[@gtx_UK]

Can you do an in-depth segment on Bitcoin ETN in the UK? What does this effectively mean? Does this mean normal everyday people can gain exposure to Bitcoin through a new Bitcoin ETN which is due to be launched later in the year? Or would it mean normal everyday people will still be banned from putting funds through the newly created Bitcoin ETN?

[@ToneGuruLA]

"Our financial system is fine" This is music to my ears.... a cogent reminder of how much higher BTC is gonna cliimb. A cogent reminder of how so many of my fellow Americans have their head in the sand.

[@jamesderoc6717]

good conversation . .btc is the second amendment of money but black rock/ vanguard are the gov

[@johnshaff]

I think the Vanguard conversation is not tracking. The idea that the crypto investor is somehow detached from the “big boy” investor at Vanguard is nonsense. Firstly, them not supporting things like BTC is exactly why I liquidated my entire Vanguard portfolio, including IRA’s taking a penalty. Secondly, bitcoin is a millennial asset, and millennials are the next generation of prospective investors for Vanguard and we are set to inherit all the wealth so this whole line of thinking is just wrong

[@kansaidan2302]

Why did you take early withdrawal IRA penalty? ............ You could have just transferred your IRA to somewhere like iTrustCapital and keep your full amount growing under tax avoidance umbrella. Additionally, at iTrust you can buy sell and trade easily among cryptos without tax consequences.

[@shahbasharat]

very rarely do i get to see sanity on youtube when it comes to crypto...this is one great content!

[@jeffdoyle]

You’re looking in the wrong places then

[@fishboy77]

I used to think Jim Bianco knew what he was talking about.

[@nick-oi1xf]

He's just blown away about the inflow, because it's unprecedented. So he thinks it's pure speculation but he's dismissing the fact that bitcoin the asset is like no other.

[@amarkmanpeters]

Bianco is spot on about the notion of the failure of the decentralized adoption of Bitcoin. But not everyone values this feature. Many of us do.

[@thesolitaryadventurer]

I have a lot of respect for Jim and I take everything he says on board. During the bull run, it's going to get very echo chamber and NGU. Having nay sort of opposing or rational voice will be very important to hold on to. I hope he keeps formulating and voicing his ideas.

[@usntheboy1]

Why is Jim so angry?

[@fishboy77]

I think he must be short BTC.

[@nick-oi1xf]

He obviously didn't see this coming. He's sidelined

[@nick-oi1xf]

I'm retail and bought the ETF for retirement, not selling

[@Joe-vx3jj]

Not sure it’s going to go down. We have been letting our grands go in for the long term. Small accounts but teaching them how to watch their investment in bitcoin. Good practice. We’re staying in I think in bitcoin.

[@Scorch428]

itll def go down again. Theres alot of ppl who buy way too high, and alot of ppl that sell way too low, so until that changes, we just have to deal with the volatility. Sell at the top, buy back in at the bottom. You probabbly cant guess the exact top or exact bottom, but you can get close enough.

[@Joe-vx3jj]

@@Scorch428 That’s why I said I think. LOL. They may decide to turn it into a trade. We will see if they make or loose a buck.

[@BatmanBoss]

Thanks

[@freefallappz]

Policy makers have compressed volatility which has worked well until it doesn’t

[@mgarduno606]

Great analysis wow...

[@samw6713]

Great discussion!

[@tenmike]

Great interview.

[@motopolak]

Jim doesn’t get that he doesn’t get it.

[@overengineer7691]

I just do not believe coinbase has all the BTC they are supposed to have for the 8 ETFs that custody there.

[@andrewmcmurray8081]

Cool

[@anthonym3687]

Look on the block chain?

[@whoahdudeman]

Clear thinkers.

[@allisone8]

great interview.

[@edreeves121]

The NAV of bitcoin has to be a negative number. Please, someone, anyone, explain where the value comes from other than the cost of wiring money.

[@IaintTheHerb]

It's a belief system, not all that different from shiny yellow rocks. I don't make the rules, but I recognize them.

[@mrbojangles7504]

Interesting about no in kind transfers and arb trading. Consider how majority of trading is still on exchanges, which offchain and is similar to the etf markets. Just without the black box

[@karlaveronicahortaglz6852]

Nice work. I’ve been on the AMK99H$ train for a while, never sold as they are always building.

[@Thinkstackgrow]

What did Eric mean at 31.00 when he said it's better to stay in fund for 50 years and pay 1.5% capital gains tax ?

[@emouselOregon]

You misheard him. The fee for GBTC is 1.5% per year but if you sell it to buy a different ETF you will owe at LEAST 15% (not 1.5%). It will take at least a decade to recoup the difference.

[@toddtraut7721]

Ummm, Jim is right. I sold some BTC this month to help buy a Lake House. Still HODLing but trimmed a little off that was bought in 2020.

[@송다희-p4d]

Welcome ❤

[@chrispaul1117]

Have they looked at bond returns lately?

[@Barone2013]

Vanguard is a shareholder in blackrock the company, so they will also capture value if blackrock does well

[@kallenstev]

60/40? Hahahaha, OK Grandpa time for your nap….

[@OZcafehead]

The down trend + in kind transfer question. Interesting but isn't it the same problem? If the BTC chain is at a stand still the fund still can't just "handover" the underlying asset.

[@Pauljfrederick]

I don’t understand how Jim doesn’t understand that having a hard cap value ledger is an extremely helpful use case. If all Bitcoin ever did was offer a hedge against inflation long-term, that would be AMAZING.

[@andrewmcmurray8081]

He gets it, but he's making a name as a contrarian that "gets it". He also doesn't consider age groups. Yes wealthy people don't care about bitcoin, almost everyone in their 20's or 30's is into it. Guess what, those young people will soon be older and wealthy and BTC will be common place

[@davidhumphrey1558]

Saylor represents the future of the global citizen. In 100 years when bitcoin has driven these banking networks to obsolescence, The only way to reach the world of the financial elite will be to preserve your bitcoin holdings. Pristine collateral.

[@modelmark]

What great calm, deep thinkers.

[@ToneGuruLA]

I sold all my GBTC in my Roth day 1 of ETF day. Rolled it into FBTC. But... I still have my GBTC in my taxable account. The cap gain tax overshadows the fee. I can see selling GBTC maybe 2029 or so... and eat the taxes.

[@jamesderoc6717]

this is about an alternate decentralized financial system , if it isn't the critics are right and its tulips

[@24theMoney]

Eric's discussion about GME is vull and void and naked shorting enters the picture which is the case.

[@jeffpacheco4542]

Good talk. You guys have all forgotten more about finance and the markets then I’ll ever know. The one question I wish someone with their expertise could answer is this: how does this end? How does a credit based system work long term? What is the ‘end game’ that Jim references? Will the level of debt reduce, stay stable, or increase? History shows it will increase, with ever growing acceleration. If the answer isn’t btc then we are in trouble. Maybe not me, but probably my kids, and definitely my grandkids. The fiat system will fail. It’s just math. Also the idea that there will be’multiple’ moneys is a pipe dream.

[@rolfspuler1056]

"Here in the US the financial system is fine" 🤣Let him repeat it in 5 years.

[@bethecoin]

Re scalpings. By design and reality, the BTC crowd quite often comes across immature. Because no matter our actual age, we are 😊

[@wayneatwell7039]

Jim is forgetting that people might want Bitcoin and other investments in the same account so you can sell a stock and buy bitcoin immediately or sell bitcoin to buy a stock or ETF. I use the exchanges and metamask but now most of my bitcoin is in the ETFs

[@ryanonline4817]

Determining what percentage of new bitcoin adoption is from short term or long term holders is impossible but I can't imagine Stanford for example trading bitcoin. Also a lot of people start out as traders, then become hodlers. Bitcoin is digital gold. I can't speak for others but I''m not selling.

[@mojojo.md.]

that was a magneficent podcast until btc idea compared with etfs. bitcoin showd that people want decentralization and accountability. they dont want profigal goverments spend irrisponsably and print money create inflation then put it on people shoulder loop.

[@matthewterry3555]

Jim's view on ETF success representing failure is somewhat true, but he fills in his reasons with the wrong information. It isn't the UX/UI that is was the problem. CEXs are very easy to use and intuitive. The reason is because of the lack of regulation, the politics, and the fraud that happened because of the lack of regulation. The reason is that the digital assets industry developed at lightning speed while everything else is at a standstill. So the failure is the industry not having the power to make change politically and lawfully fast enough to keep up with it's growth. I don't think any brand-new technology industry could, though. This is a global paradigm shift that will change civilization forever; I think things are going pretty well considering.

[@Ryan_Tinney]

Wonderful discussion and excellent guests.

[@bradmyers7109]

My portfolio is about 100,000 dollars. Am I supposed to believe that people like me are going to be upset if their 1000 dollar investment ( 1 percent ) in Bitcoin goes down 20 percent and we lose 200 dollars? Am I supposed to believe that people like me watch their 1000 dollar investment rise 20 percent is going to be really excited to make 200 dollars ? It is a joke for high income individuals to waste their time in investing 1 percent into anything. This is chump change. I am so glad I did not listen to financial advisors in 2017 to only put 1 to 5 percent of my portfolio into Bitcoin.

[@eyzup]

High energy

[@bradynields9783]

1:18:35 Crypto will be adopted by those around the world that use it day to day.

[@gamanshoo]

48:49 who mostly owns bonds? People who have LOTS of money ALREADY. Who mostly owns dividend stocks? People who have LOTS of money ALREADY Who mostly ownd bitcoin or other crypto? People who DESIRE to make money…the vast majority are not millionaires…for this cohort the “best performance” of a 60/40 portfolio of 6% to 8% per year LESS THE LOSS OF PURCHASING POWER = will stay “poor” FOREVER…are have “A LITTLE” by age 80 if ALL “goes well”…

[@labraham98]

Just because our financial system is better than Argentina's doesn't mean it is fine. If our financial system was truly fine, we wouldn't have the massive price increases in food and shelter that we are dealing with. Bitcoin is a defense against money printing just like gold because of its limited supply and lack of centralized control. Imagine if the Fed had to get the permission of the majority of US dollars before it could print more money. This is the best use case for Bitcoin.

[@bitcoinyoda8321]

For all folks with 30 million, i hope you don´t need a "wealth manager".

[@mnava1726]

Stop over analyzing this! Let's see what happens over the next 5 years and then make a call. Appreciate all of you though.

[@rafish100]

Honestly! This guy is an effen goose! What a complete waste of time. The market is proving him wrong. Honestly Michael do better. Thank god for Eric.

[@24theMoney]

Jim for the win. Get out of the hot sauce before the music stops.

[@Yoyowuzgood]

The purpose of the etf is to allow people to borrow against the security. I have a ton of crypto assets but bought 5K of the etfs just to have in margin if I need it

[@nick-oi1xf]

Yeah, to Jim's point, I'd love to see the US treasuries go to 10% and watch the entire system blow up😂.

[@nonyab3237]

4 minutes in, and I wish Jim Bianco would stop talking already. I feel like I'm getting dumber listening to him.

[@martinlutherkingjr.5582]

45:30 ROFL this boomer doesn’t think Bitcoin core developers have to wake up and work on maintaining the most secure decentralized monetary network in the world? Bitcoin’s success is in large part thanks to the genius minds on its development team. And what about all the people maintaining and building out mining & energy infrastructure? Just another finance bro who doesn’t truly understand Bitcoin.

[@bc8Sooners]

Jim's view is shaped by his fundamental lack of trust that Bitcoin is a long term viable hard asset. I find his lack of faith drives the misleading views.

[@leipan72]

Low quality guest, Jim isn't even aware of the difference between future contract based ETF and spot ETF, his thesis is all about making arbitrary comparison between apple and orange.

[@Elliott_Elliott]

Jim is such a bear. Always grumpy and skeptical.

[@cyberoptic5757]

Too many commercials

[@jesus-rr3vo]

I understand why you choose AMK99H$ since it will have selling preasure in the next bull.

[@michael2275]

BTC.D only trending lower because of inclusion of stable coins. Excluding stable coins BTC.D will make a new high this cycle. In 10 years this will be known as the 'crap coin dark ages' . Host doesn't get it.

[@ToneGuruLA]

Yes... its not the 60... its the 40. The debt cycle has been kind to 60/40 for 44 years. That cycle has peetered out. Plus, the treasury mkt is no longer market driven... but govt driven. Plus the treasury mkt shot itself in the foot when the US govt cancelled 100s of billions in liabilities payable to a whole country. Then there is the currency debasement. Your bond payoff is in a value losing asset... fiat.

[@anthonypai6127]

It’s not a crazy crypto crowd who jumps on everyone, it’s just the Bitcoin idiots. The rest of the crypto crowd are quite open minded.

[@orion-5wy7]

"It's a scientific community, man." Steve Z